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View Full Version : So if the horse you're riding is owned by a TD . . .



deltawave
Jun. 16, 2010, 01:25 PM
. . . is sending that horse to a show at which said TD is TD'ing OK?

IronwoodFarm
Jun. 16, 2010, 01:43 PM
What does the owner/TD have to say about it? Personally, I think it could create a perceived conflict of interest and I would let the owner/TD make the call.

scubed
Jun. 16, 2010, 01:50 PM
It used to be ok, but current rule makes pretty clear that it no longer is:

5. In addition to the above restrictions, the following persons may not serve as the
technical delegate at an Eventing Competition, Vaulting Competition or Dressage
competition: BOD 1/18/09 Effective 12/1/09
a. A close relative of a competitor or owner of a horse entered in the competition.

deltawave
Jun. 16, 2010, 02:03 PM
Rats. :sigh:

bambam
Jun. 16, 2010, 02:12 PM
I think you can still go HC though

Badger
Jun. 16, 2010, 02:32 PM
Yes, run HC. Your result can still be used as a qualifying run, you just won't get a ribbon or points.

HER
Jun. 16, 2010, 02:40 PM
Looks like the rules are clear but it's a pity that the rules assume that the TD wouldn't do their job properly and would show unfair prejudice. Any professional would not risk their job or standing just to help their horse get a ribbon. As a vet our state and national organizations allow me to draw my own coggins, write my own health papers etc. The USEF said I can fill out my own national passport. The assumption is that we are scrupulously honest and I would like to assume that about TDs also. I just think it's a shame we even have a rule like that. I know I wouldn't care if the TD's horse was competing!
Ok rant over.

deltawave
Jun. 16, 2010, 02:53 PM
Not sure how a TD could get a horse to behave better from a distance anyhow. Especially this horse! :winkgrin:

I wasn't going to ride him anyway, I'll be out of town, but it would've been a good experience for him to have my trainer do so. I guess I could send them HC, but will probably just wait for the next show. Although maybe he misses his mama and would like to visit. :)

Ribbons and points are not on our radar yet. :)

Badger
Jun. 16, 2010, 03:26 PM
If he was going to go for experience, then whether or not he's HC shouldn't make any difference at all. He'll get everything out of it that you'd hoped for running HC versus not. If he completes with no x-c penalties, even at HC, it will still be used as a "clean run" for AECs, for example.

VanEq
Jun. 16, 2010, 05:25 PM
Looks like the rules are clear but it's a pity that the rules assume that the TD wouldn't do their job properly and would show unfair prejudice. Any professional would not risk their job or standing just to help their horse get a ribbon. As a vet our state and national organizations allow me to draw my own coggins, write my own health papers etc. The USEF said I can fill out my own national passport. The assumption is that we are scrupulously honest and I would like to assume that about TDs also. I just think it's a shame we even have a rule like that. I know I wouldn't care if the TD's horse was competing!
Ok rant over.

The situation looks one way from one person's perspective, and another way from another person's. You say you wouldn't care if the TD's horse was competing... but who's to say that's true? You-- or someone else-- could easily raise a stink about it, so it's easier just to eliminate the situation. Stink averted!

I agree with those who say go HC. And good luck!

deltawave
Jun. 16, 2010, 06:14 PM
If he was going to go for experience, then whether or not he's HC shouldn't make any difference at all. He'll get everything out of it that you'd hoped for running HC versus not. If he completes with no x-c penalties, even at HC, it will still be used as a "clean run" for AECs, for example.

Certainly I'm well aware of this. :) But that $300 might be put to more fun and productive use if I simply wait for another show when I can get the experience and the bugs in my own teeth. :D

Janet
Jun. 17, 2010, 01:12 AM
It is important to avoid not only actual conflict-of-interest, but also the APPEARANCE of conflict-of-interest.

phoebetrainer
Jun. 19, 2010, 04:13 AM
Janet, if that is the case, then why is a vet being able to complete all their own forms and tests not a conflict of interest: "As a vet our state and national organizations allow me to draw my own coggins, write my own health papers etc. The USEF said I can fill out my own national passport."

Deltawave this issue is beginning to come up for me too. I have a "new" OH (6 mths) He is qualified to TD, XC judge, Steward and drug test. This is a small country!! There are not many events I will go to that he is not officiating at in some capacity. This will be an interesting season!

avezan
Jun. 19, 2010, 08:49 AM
I think the difference is that the TD will need to make judgment calls at an event, but filling out a passport is just putting down facts. I think the assumption is that both the vet and the TD are truthful, but the "truth" for the TD often comes down to a judgment. You can often get reverse discrimination in a situation where an official knows the horse in question. In order to avoid the "appearance of impropriety" that Janet mentioned, the official might judge the competitor more harshly to avoid the appearance of favoritism. Its kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario which can be avoided by the above rule. Now if the vet were assessing soundness at a jog on her own horse...that would be a judgment and I'm sure is not allowed. So I don't think the rule is saying anything about the integrity of TDs or vets. It just comes down to judgment.

deltawave
Jun. 19, 2010, 11:00 AM
And with NO intention to minimize the responsibilities of any horse show official, I'd say a licensed medical practitioner stands to lose a lot more if he/she is caught "fudging" something or misusing a privilege for his/her own benefit, be it paperwork for insurance, a horse show, calling in prescriptions, etc.