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View Full Version : Sort of stupid but...horse drugs for humans?



Tap2Tango
Jun. 15, 2010, 07:42 PM
Can humans take lactanase to ease sore muscles?? I tried to do some research and find a supplement for humans like it but had little success. I've seen it work really well for certain horses. Also, anyone here get legend or adequan shots themselves? Are there any long term effects for human use? (I'm sure there hasn't been any research on that considering it is only approved in horse use.) I've taken robaxin before(per my vets recommendation of course! ;)) but the thought if injecting a horse drug into myself makes me a little uneasy.

tarynls
Jun. 15, 2010, 07:54 PM
There is a reason there are certain drugs made for humans and others made for horses.

For example, Bute was used in humans until it was found it caused aplastic anemia (among other things, all very serious effects, some deadly).

Robaxin is actually a drug that is used in humans but should be used on your DOCTOR'S advice, NOT your vet's. It is a central nervous system depressant and has sedative properties (along with muscle-relaxant properties). Probably not something you want to take and then drive (especially if you are not used to taking it or are on other medications). I hope your vet didn't advise you how much to take - I think that would be unethical at the least, if not illegal.

You want something like lactanase for sore muscles, go to a GNC or vitamin store and ask what the weightlifters take.

And orthopaedic docs have injectible alternatives for joint pain. Don't go injecting yourself with Adequan or Legend.

deltawave
Jun. 15, 2010, 07:55 PM
Lactanase is not a "drug", per se, and therefore you have nothing, probably, that gives you any indication it's safe or efficacious. Like most supplements or nutraceuticals, you're kind of on your own.

As far as Adequan, there is an intra-articular product for humans that is called Syn-Visc that is quite similar. However, given the fact that it is a joint product specifically indicated for osteoarthritis, and you seem to be asking about muscle pain, well . . . :no: And muscle relaxants have zero pain-relieving properties, although I'm sure any vet who would recommend that a client take something like that without knowing their medical history and discussing the risks and benefits is WELL aware of that. :rolleyes: :eek:

Muscle soreness is a necessary and normal adaptation to hard work. It is not a disease or disorder unto itself. :) But if soreness or pain seems to be above and beyond what's normal following activity, maybe you ought to see a health care provider that matches your species. ;)

pj
Jun. 15, 2010, 07:56 PM
[QUOTE but the thought if injecting a horse drug into myself makes me a little uneasy.[/QUOTE]
As well it should. :no:

Tap2Tango
Jun. 15, 2010, 08:45 PM
Ok, I guess I should have clarified I'm not a crazy drug addict looking for ways to get high or something. Maybe the post came off that way. And when I say I've taken robaxin, I mean 1 pill maybe 3 times in my entire life! I've heard from many different people about using legend or bute or robaxin for people so I was just curious.
I'm aware of the differences in muscle relaxants and injections used for arthritis too, just included them in the same post. So just to clarify, I have no intention of going to the barn and grabbing a bottle of legend next time my joints feel achey or reaching for some bute whenever I have a headache. Just trying to get a better understanding of human drugs vs equine drugs. ;)

Timex
Jun. 15, 2010, 08:53 PM
I've been guilty of taking robaxin, and naproxin out of the medicine cabinet at the barn. And I know someone will probably jump all over me for admitting this, but I'm currently taking smz's for this damn sinus infection.

sk_pacer
Jun. 15, 2010, 08:55 PM
I use methocarbamol (robax) but it is people pills - no prescription required here for them. and is sold under the brand name Robaxasal or Robaxacet, depending on the pain reliever included and there are generic versions of each available as well;in fact I was surprise to see it used for horses. HA has recently been approved for human use in Canada, but most docs seem to think it doesn't work as well as cortisone (all the better to get a surgery out of the patient when the bone disappears). There is oral HA available in some joint preparations for humans though, and it does work.

deltawave
Jun. 15, 2010, 09:12 PM
most docs seem to think it doesn't work as well as cortisone Those types of conclusions are generally drawn after looking at research, not simply by casual observation. :)


Just trying to get a better understanding of human drugs vs equine drugs.

The distinction is artificial. A drug is a drug and does not belong to any particular species. It is the difference in the intended recipients that makes ALL the difference in terms of choosing the right one. ;)

Wheel Whip
Jun. 15, 2010, 09:23 PM
The farriers use Surpass on sore knees. Sore No More has done wonders for my carpal tunnel and plantar fasceitis (sp?). One the other hand, the horses take Zyrtec and Tagamet. We all take the equine MSM. Not exactly hard drugs, but I have been tempted to give some people a few cc's of Ace (ONLY KIDDING).Some days Adequan looks mighty tempting....

Androcles
Jun. 15, 2010, 09:40 PM
Sore No More (arnica) is by no stretch a horse drug. It's not for horses per se and it's not a drug, it's homeopathic.

OP for sore muscles from lactic acid, how about a better cooldown after working out?

DMK
Jun. 15, 2010, 09:56 PM
more than a few of us take MSM for it's ability to reduce lactase (?) and reduce the effect of sore muscles, I mean thatis the ONE thing MSM has been proven to do i na decent study with controls.

mvp
Jun. 15, 2010, 09:59 PM
According to show groom lore a cc of Banamine in your coffee takes care of a hangover.

People get creative and experimental. I think you should make yourself the Lactanase guinea pig and report back.

Ghazzu
Jun. 15, 2010, 10:10 PM
Sore No More (arnica) is by no stretch a horse drug. It's not for horses per se and it's not a drug, it's homeopathic.

OP for sore muscles from lactic acid, how about a better cooldown after working out?

I believe Sore No More contains well in excess of homeopathic concentrations of arnica.

Tap2Tango
Jun. 16, 2010, 10:12 AM
more than a few of us take MSM for it's ability to reduce lactase (?) and reduce the effect of sore muscles, I mean thatis the ONE thing MSM has been proven to do i na decent study with controls.

Thanks I will try that. I was browsing the GNC website last night and saw some similar products to lactanase by comparing ingredients. I'm attempting to get super fit again and I really hate that initial soreness the first week. I know it goes away once your left of fitness increases and by returning to the gym the next day it helps to loosen up. Just getting off the couch the next morning is always such a chore. ;)

Tap2Tango
Jun. 16, 2010, 10:15 AM
The farriers use Surpass on sore knees. Sore No More has done wonders for my carpal tunnel and plantar fasceitis (sp?). One the other hand, the horses take Zyrtec and Tagamet. We all take the equine MSM. Not exactly hard drugs, but I have been tempted to give some people a few cc's of Ace (ONLY KIDDING).Some days Adequan looks mighty tempting....

Just a suggestion for your carpal tunnel as I've had 3 surgeries already and I'm only 25! I found that using the back on track gloves and wrist brace really helped to reduce some of the pain. You can also put sore no more underneath them kind of like you would use hand lotion.
I'm such a fan of sore no more. I frequently add it to bath water and it makes a great soak. I also love the smell of it!
Has anyone seen their new product that they are advertising to be safe for FEI and race horse use??

shawneeAcres
Jun. 16, 2010, 10:19 AM
I've been guilty of taking robaxin, and naproxin out of the medicine cabinet at the barn. And I know someone will probably jump all over me for admitting this, but I'm currently taking smz's for this damn sinus infection.

SMZ is actually a human drug that is used on horses, so you taking it isn't exactly using a horse drug. And it does work, to some extent on sinus infections, athough there are more effective antibiotics for long standing infections

sk_pacer
Jun. 16, 2010, 10:45 AM
Those types of conclusions are generally drawn after looking at research, not simply by casual observation. :)



Oh, you dont know our docs here. Before my old doc died, he was waiting with anticipation for HA to be released for human use because he was a sports injury doctor. His insipid replacements (all young doctors and a few middle aged leftovers) have no interest in new and most treat women with the 1820s' standard that most ailments are all in the head. Best I can hope for now is the last old doc in town to be available, a rare thing indeed as he is semi-retired - he outshines his own kids for medical innovation. He is also the one that put me on Robaxasal years ago and told me to always keep some around. The sports doc agreed with that.

Sansena
Jun. 16, 2010, 10:49 AM
Gentacin spray for poison ivy
Surpass for stiff neck, or *really* strained muscles
Robaxin/ Methocarb w/ibuprofen for sore back

I, too have heard of banamine in OJ for a hangover -- from a vet.

And I swear I'd IM Ace an intruder to subdue them if I had to. A friend accidentally shot herself in the eye with Ace.. was pretty funny. Kinda like watching someone put their finger on an old 72 RPM record. One minute she was buzzing around, the next she was staggering a bit, slurring her words... "Uhhh dun ftheeel tho welllll"..

A 20 minute nap took care of it.

Stay away from Dorm. NOT meant for human use.

However, I've been tempted to try Adequan on myself, however I dont' think I ever really would. I do use equine Adequan on my dog, though.

sar2008
Jun. 16, 2010, 11:00 AM
I have taken Doxycycline/SMZ's (not simultaneously of course....) to treat a UTI, Doxy's also worked GREAT on the occasional breakout :)

Naproxen/Robax/Surpass for my aches and pains.

walktrot
Jun. 16, 2010, 01:15 PM
A friend of mine once took an SMZ for a cold, figuring if it was one pill per 100pounds of horse, it would be fine for her 135 pound body. What it actually did was to sterilize her entire body. She called me to pick up the appropriate drug on my way to the barn to do something about the raging yeast infection. I got her a big tub of yoghurt too. To my knowledge she hasn't done it since.

RAyers
Jun. 16, 2010, 01:23 PM
The farriers use Surpass on sore knees. Sore No More has done wonders for my carpal tunnel and plantar fasceitis (sp?). One the other hand, the horses take Zyrtec and Tagamet. We all take the equine MSM. Not exactly hard drugs, but I have been tempted to give some people a few cc's of Ace (ONLY KIDDING).Some days Adequan looks mighty tempting....


Ace will cause paralysis in humans. I saw it happen when a vet missed a loopy horse and hit their own hand. It is temporary at the dosage I saw but kinda ugly nonetheless.

Surpass contains diclofenac, a "human" NSAID.

dalpal
Jun. 16, 2010, 03:06 PM
The farriers use Surpass on sore knees. Sore No More has done wonders for my carpal tunnel and plantar fasceitis (sp?). One the other hand, the horses take Zyrtec and Tagamet. We all take the equine MSM. Not exactly hard drugs, but I have been tempted to give some people a few cc's of Ace (ONLY KIDDING).Some days Adequan looks mighty tempting....

Yep, I've used Sore No More on my back (after a fall) and it did miracles in two days.

tidy rabbit
Jun. 16, 2010, 03:15 PM
I'm not sure that arnica falls into "homeopatic" since that term seems to be misused frequently here COTH....
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=3775

I thought that arnica was an herb that helped reduce bruising, not what falls into the principles of homeopathy.... just saying.

Gry2Yng
Jun. 16, 2010, 03:19 PM
I'll confess. Last fall I got some NASTY poison ivy. Doc would not give me any prednisone unless I came in. Well, I had an eye doctor, endocrinologist and mammogram all scheduled for the next two weeks. No time for another appt. Went to my horse meds kit. Knew the mg/kg because my DH had just finished a round. Have also taken smz's and naprox out of my horse kit.

The dog/cat/horse thing is the one I am really careful with. Many drugs don't cross those species lines without bad results.

Wheel Whip
Jun. 16, 2010, 03:30 PM
Looky what i found on Wickipedia (and we all know everything there is true;)).
"The thymol derivatives concentrated in the plants roots have been clinically shown to be effective vasodilators of subcutaneous blood capillaries. Arnica preparations used topically have been demonstrated to act as an anti-inflammatory and assist normal healing processes by facilitating transport of blood and fluid accumulations through a dilating action of subcutaneous blood capillaries (Holist Nurse Pract, 2008, 22(4):237-239). In one double-blind trial, Arnica montana was found to be equally effective as the more expensive diclofenac for accelerating wound healing after foot surgery, but was less effective than the same drug for pain relief."
Thanks for the carpal tips!

daisyduke
Jun. 16, 2010, 11:21 PM
My farrier said he often used bute for sore back and muscles. Even if anemia is a side affect, I'm sure that was the least of his worries. he was so hunched over from decades of farrier work and didn't look the best of health. he retired years ago.

deltawave
Jun. 17, 2010, 08:11 AM
Flagrant disregard for risks and a dogmatic insistence that "my way is the right way, to hell with facts" is the luxury of the ignorant. :sigh:

Anemia doesn't begin to describe it--more like a virtually-always-fatal shutdown of the bone marrow. :no:

And Advil would probably work exactly as well, with fewer (but not an absence of) risks.

equineartworks
Jun. 17, 2010, 08:16 AM
I'll stick with Vetrolin and leave the rest of the horse stuff for my horses and my people stuff for me.

ETA: when I worked in the clinic the first thing we did was remove the package inserts from the pharmaceuticals that we gave to clients. The reason? A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

People would look at the brand and generic names and think "hey, I take that! I will just save money and give it to the dog!" Big mistake...while it seems like an okay thing to do, the average horse, dog, cat owner is not privy to the in depth inner workings of the animals metabolism and body chemistry.

deltawave
Jun. 17, 2010, 10:25 AM
ETA: when I worked in the clinic the first thing we did was remove the package inserts from the pharmaceuticals that we gave to clients. The reason? A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Physicians have been sued for doing this. It's actually a source of much debate and legal wrangling. Just saying. :)

equineartworks
Jun. 18, 2010, 07:38 AM
This was about 10 years ago in a veterinary clinic DeltaWave and it was legal to remove the product from the stock packaging, label and dispense without the accompanying product literature. I'm not sure what the rules are for human patients but it was fine for the four legged kind :)

JCS
Jun. 18, 2010, 01:25 PM
But... I don't understand why people are taking these horse medications...? Why take bute when there is motrin? Why take horse SMZs when you can just get some antibiotics made for humans? It seems like a reckless and strange thing to do.

moodymaretoo
Jun. 18, 2010, 01:45 PM
I hear my old farrier say something about humans taking bute...
I got the impression that it was a very bad thing.. like getting stoned.... I didn't want to ask her why & what it did...
Any of you know??? I have not intentions of doing it... just one of those things I gotta know "WHY?" and was to worried asking would make me look like an addict or something.

SunkenMeadow
Jun. 18, 2010, 02:24 PM
I remember a well known trainer who used to drop trou in a stall so the vet could give her a depo shot...

deltawave
Jun. 18, 2010, 02:54 PM
I hear my old farrier say something about humans taking bute...
I got the impression that it was a very bad thing.. like getting stoned....

More like risking aplastic anemia and a gruesome death. It will not make anyone "stoned". It is a NSAID like any other, just has the unique property of being really toxic to humans once in a while, an idiosyncratic and unpredictable reaction that can be fatal. Hence the fact that it is no longer approved for human use.

cyndi
Jun. 18, 2010, 03:01 PM
I've been guilty of taking robaxin, and naproxin out of the medicine cabinet at the barn. And I know someone will probably jump all over me for admitting this, but I'm currently taking smz's for this damn sinus infection.

LOL. I've taken SMZ from my tack room for upper respiratory infections and my vet admitted she had done the same. :lol:

However the medication was human meds - just prescribed in MUCH larger dose (like 10 pills, crushed) for the equines.

I also use Surpass on myself, knowing that it has been used in humans in europe for quite awhile. (And now the human form of it is being marketed in the US - for alot more money, I am sure.)

Peggy
Jun. 18, 2010, 11:35 PM
A vet told me that he took banamine for, IIRC, a really torqued back and it worked amazingly well.

Know someone who took part of a tablet of robaxin for menstrual cramps. She said it worked but she got really hungry.

Know several people who have used Surpass on various sore body parts.

The working student at my former barn wasn't particularly stable and decided to take ace. She didn't emerge from her apartment for work one AM and when they went to get her she was still pretty groggy. IIRC, a trainer in California someplace tried to kill their spouse using ace, but can't remember if it worked.

Ghazzu
Jun. 19, 2010, 10:25 AM
Flunixin was never approved for human use, according to a pharmaceutical industry source I once asked, because in preliminary studies, there was an unacceptably high level of toxicity in humans. Don't recall if it was hepatic or renal, but I think it was the latter.

Fairview Horse Center
Jun. 19, 2010, 10:51 AM
I believe Rompun is very dangerous for humans.

Bute used to be a human drug, and was prescribed for my mom for a sore shoulder. She was a heart patient. BUT it was removed due to the problems it caused in the stomach. Not sure if it has been re-introduced. It is much worse than what it does to horses, and human Bute was butazolidin alka. I know people who have taken it, but I also know someone that put himself in the hospital taking the horse drug as it MUST be taken with "alka" (Tums). Why take Bute, when Advil is available? It is an incredibly effective drug for arthritic issues.

I believe Adequan is approved for humans in England. I know a vet that has used it on himself.

I used to use EPF-5 as a personal liniment - nothing like it.

I WISH more would be done to approve DMSO for human use - brain and spinal issues. Why not use something that can do so much to overcome those injuries? I had a vet tell me that if one of her kids was ever brain or spinal injured, she would run them to her truck and get DMSO into them.

hoopoe
Aug. 10, 2010, 09:00 PM
But... I don't understand why people are taking these horse medications...? Why take bute when there is motrin? Why take horse SMZs when you can just get some antibiotics made for humans? It seems like a reckless and strange thing to do


SMZ TMP / SEPTRA DS

IS

a human drug. The tablets dispensed from your vet are more than likely those dispensed from your pharmacy to you .

The reasearch , development and manufacture of veterinary only drugs is a very small portion of the market. Most drugs are made for and distributed for human use. Animal reap the benifit.

Some manufacturers will label some drugs with veterinary labels ( fulvicin comes to mind) but they are from the same place and same machine. I have even seen them with the same lot number.

When I ordered for a large clinic we got many of our routine drugs from a human pharma vendor. Many of the vet vetdors did not carry routine things like pred anibiotics etc.

DMK
Aug. 10, 2010, 09:35 PM
SMZ TMP / SEPTRA DS

IS

a human drug. The tablets dispensed from your vet are more than likely those dispensed from your pharmacy to you .

True dat, but "sulfa drugs" (which pre-dated the development of penicillin) are known for adverse reactions, so the ONE thing I would not be doing is popping some SMZs unless I had a really good idea about how my body handled them. And interestingly enough, I think think they are still the abx of choice for CA-MRSA...

As a side note, if you want to read a really great book about the race to develop antibiotics, read "The Demon Under the Microscope" by Thomas Hager. One of the best books I have read, and if you want an example of how nothing is truly black and white, consider that the company that developed sulfa drugs and saved millions of lives in WWII was a subsidiary of ... I.G. Farben. Google it if your skin isn't already crawling.

EverAfter
Aug. 10, 2010, 10:15 PM
I know someone who puts a squirt of Dex in their drink.. I don't remember why.. maybe for allergies

Mara
Aug. 10, 2010, 10:37 PM
I accidentally took a whopper does of oral Ace. Let this be a lesson in why you should:
A) - Keep your meds in the proper, original containers and
B) - Do not medicate yourself in the dark (I had a headache and didn't want to wake up the SO).

Took 3 Ace - they felt like Advil tabs in the dark and I kept them in a squat little screw top bottle - not identical to the Advil, but close enough that I couldn't tell the difference sans light.

It was scary. It didn't zonk me, but I SERIOUSLY got amped up. And paranoid. I didn't sleep all night, was almost completely incoherent, and at one point was convinced I had a brain tumor. This was nearly 20 years ago and I still remember how awful it was. It scared the bejesus out of the SO's roommate.

shakeytails
Aug. 10, 2010, 11:29 PM
A friend of mine once took an SMZ for a cold, figuring if it was one pill per 100pounds of horse, it would be fine for her 135 pound body. What it actually did was to sterilize her entire body. She called me to pick up the appropriate drug on my way to the barn to do something about the raging yeast infection. I got her a big tub of yoghurt too. To my knowledge she hasn't done it since.

SMZ-TMP (AKA Bactrim, Septra, Sulfatrim) is usually used for UTIs in people. That dosage is appropriate.

From the Davis's Drug Guide for Nurses Adult dosage- "PO (Adults): Urinary tract infection/chronic bronchitis-1 double strength tablet (160 mg TMP/800 mg SMX) q 12 hr for 10-14 days. "

The pills I have in my med cabinet for horses are the double strength tablets.

The problem is antibiotics also kill off good flora- thus the yeast infection. It can happen with any antibiotic.

The stupid thing was taking it for a cold. Antibiotics won't help a virus.

carolprudm
Aug. 11, 2010, 08:06 AM
You can get HA for human use
http://www.smartpakequine.com/productclass.aspx?productClassid=2458#fulldetail