PDA

View Full Version : For those who have or had Baby Green Popeye K babies



Lexus
Jun. 1, 2010, 06:15 PM
I'm interested in others experience so I can set realistic expectations for my greenie.

I have a 6 year old Popeye K baby that just went off to his first horse show to actually show. He's been to horse shows prior but only to site see. He has been very naughty at the show. When he decides he doesn't want to do something he refuses to go forward, instead he goes up or backward. I have a pretty well known rider on him at the moment and he is scheduled to debut in the baby greens tomorrow.

I am interested in others experience with temperament in this particular pedigree. My horse has been on the show grounds for a week so he should be getting better but it's still touch and go. He's worse out of the ring than in. I chose this horse because the Popeye K influence is supposed to lend itself to amateur friendly rides. Of course I know that's a generalization but he's proving to have quite a stubborn streak that is magnified now that he has to be a big boy. I hope this is a very short phase.

Has any other Popeye's decided they preferred their pasture to the show ring and taken awhile to get over it?

Dazednconfused
Jun. 1, 2010, 06:22 PM
I would say you're not taking his mother's disposition and temperament into account enough ;)

JA
Jun. 1, 2010, 06:24 PM
I know of several Popeye K babies that have a tendency to be difficult

Go Fish
Jun. 1, 2010, 06:28 PM
Yes, need to know what type of mare he's out of. It's just not the stallion that adds to the offspring. Need to consider everything.

This thread makes me realize...nobody talks much on this board about Popeye K babies. I don't breed Dutch horses, but considering his success in the ring and the number of people who bred to him, what's the scoop? Just curious...

Come Shine
Jun. 1, 2010, 06:52 PM
Saw a lovely one in the ring this week-end. When he went over the fences, he was gorgeous. My friend also has a beautiful Popeye K. She is taking her time getting him show ready.

Lexus
Jun. 1, 2010, 08:08 PM
Actually, I'm not discounting the mare at all. I'm just looking for sweeping generalizations about the other side of his pedigree. I'm not bashing the stallion either. He's one of my favorites :).

flyracing
Jun. 1, 2010, 09:36 PM
I don't have a baby but I have a Popeye half-brother that looks just like him :D. He was a very naughty youngster. Rearer to be specific. Very alpha, "you can't tell ME what to do!" attitude. Plus he was very bored doing the 3'6" for a second season when he was 6. He grew up alot as a 7 year old in the jumper ring with bigger fences and different tracks to entertain him. He debuted in the regulars two years later, sweeping his division o/f. Now (he's 13), he's a seasoned show horse who can walk off the trailer in the morning and lay down a great round that afternoon with no lunging or extra warm up.

kid rock
Jun. 1, 2010, 10:41 PM
I have one that is a 4 year old. Great to ride! She was Champion at her first "AA" show in the Baby Greens.

DallasES
Jun. 2, 2010, 01:14 AM
I own a just turned 7 year old Popeye K mare. She is SUPER sweet on the ground, and has been very easy to train. When I got her she was barely started over fences, and had been sitting in pasture as a pretty pasture pet for a year. She has been a little spooky with distractions outside of the ring, but at shows she is all business. She goes straight to work, and loves to jump and pays attention to her job in the ring. I do not know anyone else with a Popeye K baby, but I have to say I love mine, she is growing up nicely. ;)

Coppers mom
Jun. 2, 2010, 01:42 AM
He may just be slow to mentally mature. I'm hesitant to base my opinion off my one experience with a Popeye K baby (who was admittedly, not out of the easiest of mares), but some of them do tend to need a longer to get there.

I rode a pony by a stallion who was apparently very well known for producing pony hunters, and he was an absolute idiot. Every day was a new day, and everything was brand new all over again. I couldn't stand him, but the owners kept saying "Oh, his sire is known for producing babies that start out silly but eventually settle and turn into fabulous horses". It seemed like on his 8th birthday, something switched on in his head, and he was suddenly a lesson horse who jumped like Rox Dene. Weird, but rewarding. Don't get discouraged.

Depechemode
Jun. 2, 2010, 02:15 AM
My Popeye boy did the Baby Green's last year and he was actually a star..so brave and polite in the ring. He toured me around the low adults last year as well and this year in the 3 foot adult amateur ring with pretty good results so far.
I guess I am a very 'amateur' amateur who got lucky with a forgiving youngster.. he is the kindest, most honest horse I have ever ridden:)
Oddly enough he is rather spooky at home but at shows he is all business and never needs a lunge or any ring prep for that matter...now if we could only lock down those lead changes;)
Don't give up on your boy..maybe it's just a maturity issue :)

FrenchFrytheEqHorse
Jun. 2, 2010, 06:58 AM
A lot of Voltaire bred horses are known to have pretty sensitive temperaments... which likely contributes to their competitive prowess. And as much as I love Popeye (as well as most of the babies I've seen in person), I often wonder why anyone would breed to him banking for an ammy horse. Although I've heard Popeye himself is absolutely lovely to be around, and super forgiving, his pedigree doesn't read that way.

Would anyone consider breeding anything other than world's most saintly, forgiving mare to Voltaire for an ammy mount?

Lexus
Jun. 2, 2010, 07:06 AM
A lot of Voltaire bred horses are known to have pretty sensitive temperaments... which likely contributes to their competitive prowess. And as much as I love Popeye (as well as most of the babies I've seen in person), I often wonder why anyone would breed to him banking for an ammy horse. Although I've heard Popeye himself is absolutely lovely to be around, and super forgiving, his pedigree doesn't read that way.

Would anyone consider breeding anything other than world's most saintly, forgiving mare to Voltaire for an ammy mount?


I agree on the Voltaire influence but you can't beat some of the qualities Popeye has passed on. The best rythmic canter you could hope for and a great jump. I know we'll get there, we're just at a difficult stage.

FrenchFrytheEqHorse
Jun. 2, 2010, 07:19 AM
I agree on the Voltaire influence but you can't beat some of the qualities Popeye has passed on. The best rythmic canter you could hope for and a great jump. I know we'll get there, we're just at a difficult stage.

Oh, absolutely! My negative-ish comments regarding Popeye were only in reference to the temperament Voltaire can often pass to his offspring... I agree 100% that he really passes on a great canter, super jump, and great substance (with the right mares). Totally worth the trade off in the right situations, and considering you've got a good pro aboard, it sounds like this is just a bit of a speed bump.

I felt like the Popeye hype from a few years ago was a little... "overdone"?... because EVERYONE wanted to breed to him. All these lovely foals started coming out with those SOCKS!! and that CANTER!!!! and people started dreaming of future junior/amateur horses with SOCKS AND CANTERS!!!. But in the last year or two, it's becoming clear that a lot of the most talented of his first few US foal crops are quite the handful. Good for you that you're putting yours into a great program! They are absolutely gorgeous horses, and I am eternally jealous watching them go around the rings.

Treasmare2
Jun. 2, 2010, 07:27 AM
I subscribe to the school that these horse take a little time to mature both mentally and physically. Voltaire was known to produce late to mature horses. Even the jump can take a long time to develop and it seems 7 or 8 seems to be the time the Voltaires find themselves. I have two Popeye boys and they have been following that path...one seems to be a year earlier on his milestones than the other one. They are big horses with huge personalities and they are smart. One is overly careful (also a Voltaire trait). They both love attention, love to be worked and have a job and are pretty brave about new or strange things. One had a pretty strong opinion about things and managed to get away with some efforts to intimadate his rider and had to be knocked around for a few rides. This fixed him and I wonder if this is the situation the OP has gotten into.

I believe some of them have a two stage jump and need to jump form a little gap. Popeye looked that way to me too. They need to get strong to hold their big bodies to a deep spot. One of mine is certainly an ammie horse and is tolerant and forgiving despite being the one that gave us a few problems around intimadation. Turned out he was but a paper tiger and now he is very willing and accepting. The second one is perhpas a little more than an ammie ride at this point in terms of confidence....he wants to do everything right and gets a little rattled if things go a little wrong...not as resillent as the older one. Both are turning into lovely horse with great good looks too. Both are 17hh plus and both are going to be 3'6 (min)horses ...they like a bigger fence like their father.

I love their canter which one can sit on all day long....one got taller socks and one got short socks and isn't nearly as colorful.

Lexus
Jun. 2, 2010, 08:29 AM
Thank you Treasmare2! Mine sounds like your more ammie friendly boy. He is very tolerant of mistakes but I do believe he thinks he can intimidate to get his way in certain circumstances. He thinks it would be so much easier to go back to his stall than deal with the scary schooling ring! He's a big boy, around 17h but built solid and he's chestnut with only two white socks and a blaze. I've assumed the late development and given him time but I think this is the summer he needs to learn his job.

Thank you to those that have shared. I love exploring the similarities and differences in horses bred alike.

Justice
Jun. 2, 2010, 09:00 AM
You should search Chef Jade's post that includes a link to the YouTube round of PJ doing the Baby Greens for the first time last weekend. She has a 4 year old Popeye K baby out of her Jupiter mare, Jade, that is quiet, quiet, quiet as evidenced by the video - and he was just cut a few months ago.

I'd like to add as someone that's sat on both sides on the baby green fence, I feel you. Some are perfect the day they are broke, and some break your bones before you ever make it to the baby green ring. Sorry you are having to go through this... it's really heartbreaking to pin your hopes and dreams on a baby and have things go wrong, even if it's temporary - especially when they're talented. Good luck!

goodmorning
Jun. 2, 2010, 10:23 AM
In addition to the comments regarding Voltaire & the time it takes to mature, I believe Voltaire's are best mixed with some 'hot' and 'bold' blood...most likely to counteract the backwards thinking that they can have...So, just something to keep in mind. Here is a quote from Voltaire's owner/breeder, might help in the training curve. It would be interesting to see what the bloodlines are traits are of those with Popeye babies - wasn't Jade rather opinionated as a youngster?


"Mares with a little bit of blood, and bold, very bold, strong characters – maybe too strong characters. Mares that might be too bold and not careful enough. Voltaire was very very careful, sometimes that is his weakest point. It’s very close the relationship between genius and the crazy one, and between ‘careful’ and ‘afraid’ there is just a little margin in there. Some Voltaires are too careful, too small hearted."

From KWPN:
"Voltaire produces roughly two types of horse; rather square exteriors with an articulate top-line; or big rectangular horses with a lot of bone. His progeny move with sufficient length of pace, but are a little slow and without optimum bend in hocks. The hind leg is often a little straight. Due to their nice type and good character a lot of riders can easily cope with them. They can make quite nice dressage horses for riders at rural level, although the KWPN doesn’t recognize him as a producer of dressage horses.
The progeny of Voltaire mature late and, at the age of three, their jumping abilities are not easy to discover. The horses don’t show a lot of technique and power in free-jumping like the Burggraafs do. When Voltaire progeny reach the age of five or six, the technique of jumping has developed thanks to riding. They jump with a lot of scope and have very good front leg technique, although the hind legs could be more elevated. Most of Voltaire’s progeny are very careful. He matches well with French Thoroughbred blood"

dags
Jun. 2, 2010, 10:31 AM
This is the year of Popeye babies it seems.

We currently have two listed and one on the way (actually, Buschkn's young mare - she's around here somewhere). Have met Buschkn's girl, took pictures in the middle of an Ocala field and doted all over her. She was a doll, though a little bored with the photo shoot. I was expecting Diva poses, she was expecting grass. Didn't see her show but have seen the pictures which are very impressive . . . though suggest she might be a (gasp) jumper :eek:

Have one just starting in the 3' and won Tricolors at all 3 of his Baby Green shows last year, and also in the PreAdult divisions :D He's 5 now, getting ready to do the real Pregreens and AAs, and appears to be minding his manners well out there (at least in front of the judges ;))

Posted one this morning that Has The Rhythm. First Year Green mare, has done AAs/Mod. AOs, lovely metronome canter, tons of jump. Travels much like her daddy, got a little gipped on the white though :( The personality/temperament description gives lots of detail about how wonderfully sweet, quiet, and no-drama she is, rides her bareback at the shows, etc.

Watched ChefJade's round last week and absolutely fell in love with that one. Would take him in a heartbeat.

Looks like there's plenty of hope out there for your guy :)

monalisa
Jun. 2, 2010, 10:37 AM
I would not assume that Popeye K is an "amateur friendly" horse at all - quite the contrary. He was shown throughout his career by a professional. His owner rarely ever showed him and she rides extremely well.

BeeHoney
Jun. 2, 2010, 10:38 AM
I know you are looking for info related to Popeye K babies, but I just really don't think the issues your horse is having are specific to a bloodline. I don't have any Popeye K/Voltaire horses, but (this is just MHO) I think a number of top european bloodlines are not necessarily so ammie friendly. Maybe all the riders in Europe are better than us and have a different definition of "rideability" in order to concentrate on having super athletic horses, I have no idea.

In any case, we start/train both WB and TB babies on my farm, and (again this is just MHO) when we do get a naughty one sent to us, the naughty TBs tend to get upset, go fast or buck, whereas the naughty WBs are more likely to be stubborn, quit and go up. If it makes you feel any better, I own a very well bred WB (different bloodlines) who had the same behavior problems as your horse, to the point where I was concerned that he might not have any future as a riding horse. Now, a year later he's a steady fellow who puts his intensity into his work.

Lexus
Jun. 2, 2010, 02:52 PM
I have a pretty well known rider on him at the moment and he is scheduled to debut in the baby greens tomorrow.


Well, he marched right around without peeking at anything, did his lead changes and schooled like a gentleman. He probably can't figure out what just happened to him. :winkgrin:

Come Shine
Jun. 2, 2010, 02:54 PM
Well, he marched right around without peeking at anything, did his lead changes and schooled like a gentleman.

Congrats!

BAC
Jun. 2, 2010, 02:59 PM
I would not assume that Popeye K is an "amateur friendly" horse at all - quite the contrary. He was shown throughout his career by a professional. His owner rarely ever showed him and she rides extremely well.

I thought that Popeye K had retired from the pro divisions because he was being shown by his owner in the 3' division. This was a year or two ago, unless I am confusing him with someone else?

CBoylen
Jun. 2, 2010, 06:31 PM
Popeye himself is one of the easiest horses I've ever been around, including all mares and geldings. His temperament is unparalleled.
I've also been around a number of (9? 10? I feel like I'm forgetting one) Popeye youngsters closely, and a few from afar, and as a group have found them to be similarly quiet and reasonable. The only trait common to a few of them that I could see being an issue is above-average carefullness, which in the wrong situation would probably lead to issues. I have not seen any to be chronically spooky, nor would I say any I've come across have had any signs of temper. They were not all, of course, perfectly perfect all the time, but nothing out of character for a young horse. Although my own never gave me a moment of trouble, and her new owner calls and tells me she's perfect all the time :D.

I wouldn't be concerned with your youngster if there was such improvement so quickly, but I would venture to guess that the issues you are having may be due to the fact that he's a six year old baby green and not three or four. That's late to learn to work for a living, and you're going to see more bumps in the road than average because of it, but there is no reason to be overly concerned with the problems that spring up as long as you see a little improvement each time.



I know of several Popeye K babies that have a tendency to rear. There was a recent thread that was deleted about one that was given away for that reason

I personally know nothing about that situation, but read posts from the person that started that thread that also complained that the horse was allegedly advertised as a Popeye K, but was actually not sired by him. If that's the case it would be a shame to repeat information that was incorrect.

Go Fish
Jun. 2, 2010, 06:32 PM
A lot of Voltaire bred horses are known to have pretty sensitive temperaments... which likely contributes to their competitive prowess. And as much as I love Popeye (as well as most of the babies I've seen in person), I often wonder why anyone would breed to him banking for an ammy horse. Although I've heard Popeye himself is absolutely lovely to be around, and super forgiving, his pedigree doesn't read that way.

Would anyone consider breeding anything other than world's most saintly, forgiving mare to Voltaire for an ammy mount?

You make a good point...

ExJumper
Jun. 2, 2010, 06:53 PM
I thought that Popeye K had retired from the pro divisions because he was being shown by his owner in the 3' division. This was a year or two ago, unless I am confusing him with someone else?

You are correct. I just looked up his USEF results and he hasn't been shown in anything BUT the 3' AA's with his ammy owner for a few years now.

Coppers mom
Jun. 3, 2010, 12:48 AM
Well, he marched right around without peeking at anything, did his lead changes and schooled like a gentleman. He probably can't figure out what just happened to him. :winkgrin:

Aw yay!! :D

Chef Jade
Jun. 3, 2010, 01:01 AM
My Popeye K baby, at 4, just went to his second show (first with his ammy owner riding (me)) and did the baby greens. He was perfect. :cool:

He is out of my mare who was a VERY difficult youngster, that was why we selected to breed to Popeye. Now, that being said, he has his moments. Usually that involves, "I'm done working, your gonna have to MAKE me move."

As you can tell from all the posts, they are ALL individuals. I'd stay stick with! It took my mare until she was 7 to become a totally reliable show horse.

Maybe your guy is just ring sour? Has he been over-worked or jumped? Kept in a 12X12 show stall when he is used to pasture or turnout? What is he like at home, same attitude?

Lexus
Jun. 3, 2010, 07:50 AM
Thanks everyone, it's been interesting to hear the feedback on everyone's horses. Turns out he was 2nd in both classes yesterday out of 28 so I'm very surprised and pleased with him.

My angle on all this was similarities and differences in same bloodlines. I'm not worried about his program or his training. He did start out late for a variety of reasons so Chanda's right, I think he's having a temper tantrum about the working life. I'm sure the road will still be bumpy but he's made significant progress in a short time.

Treasmare2
Jun. 3, 2010, 07:53 AM
Congrats on yesterday. I expect you will see many more days like that.