Between Rounds with Denny Emerson....WARNING THIS IS A RANT!!! [Archive]

Batteries Included

Feb. 21, 2004, 05:52 PM

So this is a rant and a little on the long side but it angered me: winkgrin: (you can get away with reading the end I just had to put my reasons for the eventual rant

So I was all excited to get my first issue of COTH (Feb. 13 issue) I flipped through it and gave it to my mom when I saw a picture I wanted to cut out (I do this with all my magazines) and she said hey read this article...
I read it and tell me if I’m wrong but isn’t the idea of the between rounds with anyone suppose to enlighten your horsy mind, not trash kids and their parents??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
So this Denny character (I really don’t care who he is in anyone’s world right now but he's on my list as of now)...and my little "counter points" are all mostly from today alone...

" Usually, being a horsemen is the result of having spent enormous amount of time around horses. But modern American children aren't in a position to do this even if they wanted to."

My first reaction- excuse me, I was just the barn and finished schooling 8 horses over fences and handing them off to other people and telling them what the horse is like, how they should ride them and I come home to some guy telling me I don’t know what I’m doing?!?! (and for most of these horses it was my first time riding them as well as the person I handed them to, it was an IHSA show)and I offered to help at this show because I’m nice like that http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Parents and children become commuter horse people, lucky if they spend two hours a day in actual proximity of a living horse."

my reaction- two hours??? try all day (on weekdays, after school right to dinner time) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"That means that children don't get up in the morning and feed their ponies. They don't clean stalls. They don't scrub the slime out of the water tub. They don't turn out the pony, bring him in, change his blanket, pick out his feet, select his feed, or lug hay bales."

my reaction- who does this guy think he is? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif (by now I was really aggravated with this Denny guy)...what children is he talking about?...every day I feed my horse, clean his stall and other stalls, scrub slime, bring the pony in and out, pick his feet out (that one o found kind of random), change his blanket (way too much, stupid weather changes), pick his feed and lug hay bales as well as throwing them into the hay loft (we don’t have a nifty thing that does it for us, we have arms and muscles for a reason!?!)...by now I was kind of grr mommy for asking me to read this...

yet there’s more...

"One way for suburban children to acquire some kind of hands-on exposure is to become a member of a local pony club, and organization with goals and philosophies geared toward helping children acquire real horsemanship skills."

my reaction- I only recently joined pony club, I’m unrated (as most of you know from other posts) and I have been doing just about everything pony club offers (with the exception of rallies and stuff like that) with out having to own a horse, or be obligated to something that you might not always be able to go to (don’t get me wrong I love pony club its fun!)

this guy is getting on my bad side...

"Another reason has to do with an attitude shift that sees manual labor as somehow demeaning. Lots of kids don’t mow the lawn. Why should they? A lawn mowing service comes to do that. They don’t wash the car. That’s what car washes are for. And they don’t groom their horses. That’s what grooms are for, isn’t it?"

my reaction- I mow the lawn. I think its fun (I do ask my parents i will mow the lawn willingly) I wash the car. i enjoy that too (i cant even drive a car http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, an besides car washes scare me http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif)and this groom business...(no offence to those who are grooms) but children should groom their own horse, i mean i help my friends if they are running behind, and a professional usually has other horses to ride and things to do but children, come on http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

all right i will stop but trust me i could go on, and on and on. this article really made me mad...very mad...i don’t think anyone should be aloud to write something this degrading to so may people and get away with it?!!? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif...i have calmed down a lot from when i read this the first time and i am sorry if i made anyone mad from my anger but ahh!

sorry it ran longer than i thought http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

-Caroline

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary
Average every day sane psycho
Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

[This message was edited by Batteries Included on Feb. 25, 2004 at 03:00 PM.]

Batteries Included

Feb. 21, 2004, 05:52 PM

DMK

Feb. 21, 2004, 06:03 PM

batteries included, I think I would take a chill. You might be more of an exception than you think.

Warning - when you are an exception to the rule, don't get your panties in a wad when someone addressed the rule. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard

PaintBy#s

Feb. 21, 2004, 06:12 PM

Caroline-

I understand your frustration...When I was a "child" I was doing EVERYTHING, he said children are not, and I was still doing it at the age of 20! and I will still be doing it at the age of 45!

But I also see his point of view, there are many people ( I will not use child because its of universal age) that are "fed" with silverspoon's and are handed thing to them instead of working for it, and there is a lot more of them then actual hard workers http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Perhaps you should right to Denny Emerson and COtht hemselve and tell them your side of the story.

I do not know Denny personally but I have heard just the world of him and that he is a great guy and a really talented rider. I'm sure he would be more than willing to hear your side http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Batteries Included

Feb. 21, 2004, 06:13 PM

i'm sorry if i seemed very one-sided when I wrote out my original post. Its just it seemed like he was adressing kids who ride in general. I know people who won't do anything themselves (trust me i have gotten to be their "slave" for a day) and ride incredablely well trained horses.

I'm sorry, I am 14, Opinionated, and apparently need anger management at times http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

sorry again
-Caroline

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary
Average every day sane psycho
Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

Erin

Feb. 21, 2004, 06:16 PM

He WAS addressing kids who ride in general... and, in general, I would imagine that most kids who ride don't spend nearly the amount of time with horses that you do.

That's the thing about generalizations... they're general. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Rather than get mad at Denny for pointing out that there are lots of kids out there who are NOT spending as much time at the barn as you are, be glad that you're an exception to the rule. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sobriska

Feb. 21, 2004, 06:25 PM

My opinion is that there are probably just as many like you as there are ones like Mr Emerson described. BUT.. in his world he sees more of the spoiled, everything handed to them type of kids. Because probably as a rule, the hardworking type of kid that you are comes from a backround where Mommy and Daddy can not afford to by you that 50K horse. So you learn how to make due with what they can afford, feel grateful, and put all of your time and effort into being the best you can. And you actually are dumb enough to enjoy the grunt work. You are actually dumb enough to love how your horse smells, and how he nickers for just you. (get my sarcastic drift now?)
Don't be offended that Mr Emerson doesn't get to see your type of kid normally. Work harder so that you can do well enough to whip the pants off of the more well to do kids he is talking about. And if I were you, I would write him a letter, tactfully explaining how much time and effort YOU put into horses. Maye you will be lucky enough that he would offer to take on such a dedicated kid for free since he is obviously a bit peeved himself at kids today.

I'm not crazy. I'm just a little unwell.

Daydream Believer

Feb. 21, 2004, 06:26 PM

Good Grief http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif..."This Denny character" who I know personally BTW happens to be one of the most prominent and respected horsemen in our nation and holds an Olympic Gold medal from Montreal in 1976 which is only one of his many accomplishments. I'm sure you weren't even born yet or a gleam in your mother's eye in 1976. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif He's also a very knowledgable and astute horseman who's been around for a long long time. I pay attention when he has something to say because it is usually very insightful and educational. (hint, hint) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I think he is probably right on the mark for the majority of kids today. I think I'll go read the article. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle..." Winston Churchill

buzz4

Feb. 21, 2004, 06:31 PM

Denny Emmerson is a highly regarded horseman and has been "around" for a long time. Not having read the article I can't attest to it's veracity but from my own perspective, you seem an acception to the rule. I've have a lot of exposure to "younger" riders and on the whole I find them to be exactly as Mr. Emmerson describes. I am appalled at the "entittled" attitude that I have witnessed at barns in my area as well as at the larger shows. I am happy that you seem so dedicated and responsible but I think Mr.Emmerson is trying to make an improtant point...riders need to pay their dues with hard work, dedication and time, not just be handed everything on a silver platter. A little sweat equity goes a long way in my book.

http://community.webshots.com/user/beezer44

tobruk

Feb. 21, 2004, 06:39 PM

Denny Emerson has wisdom that only comes from a lot of wet saddle blankets. He's travelled the road and knows whereof he speaks. We should all pay attention.

lonewolf

Feb. 21, 2004, 06:41 PM

Batteries Included,

I can understand why Denny Emerson's blanket statements would make you angry. Although what he said applies to far too many of the children currently riding today, it would never hurt the horse world to be reminded of the other side of the story.

Therefore, I think that you should write a letter to COTH, showing the readers that all children are not the spoiled princesses that Mr Emerson describes. You seem articulate enough to form a logical, well-argued letter.

Show the other side of the story. I am always encouraged to hear about kids who are not afraid of hard, unglamorous work, and who do help others.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing

Sobriska

Feb. 21, 2004, 06:48 PM

Yes, and please address him as Mr Emerson. Not "that Denny guy". You are educated and I know don't get by in your world by being disrespectful. You can rant. Just be respectful. Make all of us proud when you write that letter http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm not crazy. I'm just a little unwell.

Adelita

Feb. 21, 2004, 06:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Parents and children become commuter horse people, lucky if they spend two hours a day in actual proximity of a living horse. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find myself getting defensive over this statement. Two hours a day! I should be so lucky. I am a working adult who is balancing all kinds of stuff, including my horse time. I would LOVE to be able to be out there 7 days a week, for "only" two hours a day. Sheesh.

>^.,.^<

www.imom.org (http://www.imom.org)
501(c)3 all volunteer organization that helps those who cannot pay for veterinary care for their pets.

trademark

Feb. 21, 2004, 07:01 PM

I don't get CoTH (leaving in nowheres ville canada will do that for you) so I didn't read the article, just the few points you picked out.

However, to me it sounds completely dead on. When I was younger, I had to bike to a barn, or save my money up for a month to go on a measly 1 hour trail ride. Most kids aren't lucky enough to be around horses all day. Therefore, they can't get the experience that you are
accustomed to. I know I didn't, and I live in a rural area where there are a lot of horses.

Now think of the kids that live in the city, and can't get to the barn except on weekends because its an hour drive, and their parents work hard just to afford weekend lessons at a barn. I know how much one lesson a week costs here, where everything is considered cheap. It took half my pay check, and I have a part time job.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Usually, being a horsemen is the result of having spent enormous amount of time around horses. But modern American children aren't in a position to do this even if they wanted to." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't see where he is saying you don't know what you are doing, he is saying these kids that aren't out there everyday can't always earn the experience needed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> "Parents and children become commuter horse people, lucky if they spend two hours a day in actual proximity of a living horse."

my reaction- two hours??? try all day (on weekdays, after school right to dinner time) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, if you are near a barn, thats fine. But if you live somewhere that access to horses isn't at ready availability , that becomes a problem.

Some places, where people board their horses, they don't want you to do the work. Not everyone is lucky enough to own their own place, again, they can't be around their pony all the time taking care of them.

That said, I take care of my own horses, and do all the work. I joined pony club (well, rejoined) in order to learn more about taking care of my horses, even knowing I may never be able to ride again.

I just think you should read the article again, and realise he is talking about less fortunate riders then yourself.

SunshineGA

Feb. 21, 2004, 07:01 PM

A)I agree with everyone else,

B) I would just like to add something-

I read the article a few days ago and honestly appreciated it. I like to consider myself an "exception". I was never handed anything on a silver platter, and I had all the hardest horses to ride (you know the non-$70,000+ horses/ponies that the other juniors/kids got to ride...). I also used to help feed/water/muck just for fun. I was also the kid that rode all the crazy horses until they were broke enough for the rich kids to ride and had to hand them over (post-emotional attachment, and got to watch them win). I was also the kid that got to hack one of the plenty of these kids ponies in their divisions for them to get points. But hey, I consider myself luckier and a more capable rider in the long run (although I was jealous at the time...didn't realize how lucky I was)

I was very glad to see that the people I have respected my whole life have taken note of this. No, he did not mention any of the exceptions, yet I'm sure he knows we're out there. It just seems that a lot of trainers smile and nod because these are the kids that put dinner on their tables every night, not the "exceptions" to this very genereal generalization (did that makes sense?)

So consider yourself lucky that you are an exception, and do realize that even though no one outwardly states you are, they do notice your existance. And they most likely appreciate you too. So smile, nod, and agree. You know these kids too, but be grateful that youre not one of them.

"When life gives you limes, make margaritas!" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Member of the IHSA clique

http://community.webshots.com/user/sunshinengcsu

lilblackhorse

Feb. 21, 2004, 07:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sobriska:
Yes, and please address him as Mr Emerson. Not "that Denny guy". You are educated and I know don't get by in your world by being disrespectful. You can rant. Just be respectful. Make all of us proud when you write that letter http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thank you---calling him " that Denny character" chaps me in the wrong place BI. I know you are young, but maybe before you come on this bb, where he posts btw, you could have perhaps done a search on google and learned who he was and what his credentials are.

We all know him as an awesome person, great rider, and usually a speaker of the truth. I think you were really rude to just rant without doing any further study into who you were slamming.

Plus, you are obviously an exception to the rule---reading some others of your posts, you do well, other than the atrocious spelling.....keep riding, lose the chip on your shoulder, and watch who you slam--the horse world is very very small, and things can come back to bite you on your butt.

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

PaintBy#s

Feb. 21, 2004, 07:03 PM

Where is Denny residing right now?

SunshineGA

Feb. 21, 2004, 07:09 PM

Well with the news that Mr. Emerson posts on this BB, and seeing as his name is ON the topic, he will most likely read (but refrain from posting), I would like to say thank you for the article.

I know my spelling and grammar is atrocious too http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif so I apologize!

"When life gives you limes, make margaritas!" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Member of the IHSA clique

http://community.webshots.com/user/sunshinengcsu

Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl

Feb. 21, 2004, 07:13 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ASplashOfChampagne03:
Where is Denny residing right now?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right now, Southern Pines, NC, where he is usually about early Nov through about May 10, then we lose him to the north, where the smart people spend the summerhttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (South Strafford, VT, specifically)

Batteries Included

Feb. 21, 2004, 07:16 PM

again i am sorry

i didnt mean to seem as though i am trying to be mean or anything. lately all the artiles i have read are about how kids today dont do as much as they should and how what kids today are doing they are doing wrong.

its not like i have anything against Mr. Emerson it was the next article that came along and i knew most of you would have read it and know what i was talking about.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> but maybe before you come on this bb, where he posts btw <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> if you read this i am sorry, it wasnt you just the fact that there doesnt seem to be any respect for us kids who do spend hours on end at the barn and us kids who do enjoy all the dirty work so sorry truely i am

-Caroline
sorry for the spelling

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary
Average every day sane psycho
Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

Sobriska

Feb. 21, 2004, 07:18 PM

lilblackhorse: Not that you are not correct, but pls keep in mind that this poster is 14. I don't think she slammed Mr Emerson. I think she was voiceing her irritation. We all do that. If we can't do it here.....Don't get uptight. She did put "rant" in topic heading. It is obviously something that upset someone (who I think is a basically good kid, (from my interpretation) And I can somewhat understand her irritation. I think it wiser to encourage her to remember to be polite, and respectful. If Mr Emerson does read this, I hope he will also keep in mind the original poster was a 14 yr old who takes alot of pride in how hard she works. I hope someone of his caliber will be understanding and forgiving of anything disrespectful. I hope he would be someone so great he would recognize that this young person cared enough to be irritated.
And would ya'll forget about the spelling and grammer thing? The fingers work faster than the mind at times. Especially this tme of night, after a glass of wine. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'm not crazy. I'm just a little unwell.

SayCheese

Feb. 21, 2004, 07:29 PM

OK. Here's my two cents.

I think what Batteries Included was not trying to say that she didn't think that Denny Emerson knew that there are exceptions to this rule. I think she is perfectly aware that, yes, their are people that work extremely hard, like herself. And, too, she probably knows that their are people that just don't.

What bothered me about the article is that it didn't seem to have a point. OK, their are horrible, spoiled kids out there that don't do their fair share. So WHAT exactly?? When I read the article it seemed only to shed light on those who are not putting in the time around horses, which BI picked up on. What bothered me was that to someone else reading it, maybe that doesn't know much about horses, they would pick up all of the articles negative connotations and believe them as truth. To me, nothing else could be derived from this article because there was no point. Kids who don't spend the time they "should" around horses in the first place are not going to suddenly feel enlightened by this article. If so, then the article would really be useful and worthwhile, but I don't think that is really going to happen!

Secondly, this was BI's opinion. She gave a fair warning that this was a rant. It seems that after reading everything people said (which wasn't necesarily bad) she changed her opinion. Well, obviously at one point she felt strongly about this article and I dont see any reason, other that an outside influence, that she would change the opinion that compelled her to write a rant.

Thirdly, she didn't mean to be disrespectful. Well, maybe she did, but so what? She obviously didn't think that Mr. Emerson had done anything to deserve her respect in the first place. Why should she respect him just because someone tells her to? Let her form her own opinions about someone just like everyone who likes him formed their own opinions about him.

Was this my first rant?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Alison

jenarby

Feb. 21, 2004, 07:30 PM

I haven't read the article but I know many people it applies to. I was one of those kids who groomed for other more wealthy kids in order to earn a ride in a schooling show, or to earn a lesson. I busted my tushy just so I could hang around the barn more. I never showed much, but you bet I did everything in my power to earn lessons and free rides......
when I got into college, we had many classes that were required of us to earn a degree in an equine field. One of the clesses required doing barn chores for a grade, some were including tests in gromming and tacking. Things that the "exception to the rule kids" really had no problem with, as they were an everyday thing.
The people who this article actually applied to....well, they moaned and groaned, couldn't see why they had to pick stalls, do turn outs, scrub buckets....when all their lives, they PAID someone ELSE to do it for them. Sometimes, I'd get so sick of the whining, I wanted to toss these people into the manure pit!
Would you believe, we had a test on proper tack fitting, and we actually had a girl.....who all her riding "career" had ridden the A's, owner 50k plus horses, won everything there was to speak of in her region, and she couldn't tack a horse up by herself?? THAT is who this type of article addresses.
So, that said, listen to the previous posters. Don't get upset by this article. If anything, be proud of yourself for working hard to get what you have. I know I am.....

Good, Better, Best.....the best don't rest until their good is better and their better is the very best!

horsegirl33

Feb. 21, 2004, 09:27 PM

just be glad BI that you're one of the exceptions!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Sadly, I know a ton more kids like those that Mr. Emerson is talking about than I do of the 'exceptions'.

***God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses***

~~member of the Chicken Jumper Clique (AND PROUD OF IT!!) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, IHSA clique & only child clique~~

JenEM

Feb. 21, 2004, 09:43 PM

Wow, BI, that was the complete opposite of the reaction I had to reading the article. In fact, I read it after it was photocopied and put on each of the tack lockers in our barn by my trainer. I agree with her in thinking that it was spot on.

We live in a society where kids are shuttled to a different activity every night, by parents who are often working more than 40 hours a week. This is hard if you kid "just" takes piano lessons or plays soccer, and becomes more so when you have too add more than an hour of roundtrip travel time to get to/from the barn for riding lessons. The point I found in the article was that because of time and schedule constraints, and the way we (as a society) live, the ability to spend hours a day with one's animal, or keep a horse at home, isn't as much of an option as it was perhaps 20 or 30 years ago, when kids weren't quite so overscheduled and land was not quite so developed. I liked the point that while kids often aren't getting what they should as horsemen, and don't even realize they're missing it. The article, IMHO, did a good job pointing out what kids should be learning to do to be good horsemen, and pointed out that if they really wanted to, they could learn with a little extra effort and time. Denny Emerson would be, I'll hazard to guess, very happy to know that you are an exception to what is all too common, BI.

Trixie

Feb. 22, 2004, 12:46 AM

I hear both sides of this.

I've been the hardworking kid, and for years got no respect for it. But it more than paid off in the end.

I also live in the city and have a job. I more than understand that it can in fact be difficult to find time to spend, and sometimes it's easier to spend money than time (would be better if I HAD money, but okay, irrelevant http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). Hence, sometimes one has to take a cab to work instead of walking a mile when one is in a hurry. But that doesn't mean they haven't put the miles in.

So yes, both sides have a valid point. But it's also a point that has been broached many, many times before. Any time someone makes a generalization, the exception to the rule pops up, indignant about it. Times change and lifestyles change, but there's no real "right" or "wrong." There is what there is, you be what you can, and do the best you can do. Hopefully, that will be good enough.

fullmoon fever

Feb. 22, 2004, 01:09 AM

I see both types of younger people; unfortunately more of the type Denny mentioned.

There is a lovely young girl (15) part-boarding one of my mares. She doesn't do barn work here, but works weekends at another barn in order to pay for her part-board. She rides diligently M, W and F. She takes her lessons seriously and works on what she is told to. She is also a really nice person to be around. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

OTOH, I had a 10 yr. old here that was a nasty, spoiled brat that I was very happy to see the back of. Her mother did EVERYTHING for her; the daughter was not responsible for anything at all. When their "barn" was finished, they took their ponies home; lasted less than a week since the kid refused to get out of bed and feed/muck or generally do anything. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Founder of the Olde Farte Clique; Member of the Dented Thigh Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
If it ain't tack shopping, it's a waste of time and money.

DQT

Feb. 22, 2004, 07:00 AM

i think it is important to keep in mind that the people who aren't cleaning their horses stalls or buckets, who aren't turning out and in, or changing blankets usually cannot because between 7 and 3 they are at work or school, and that is why they have their horses boarded, and that is why they shovel out hundreds of dollars a month for board.

That being said, people should still educate themselves about all aspects of animal husbandry and do what horse care they can when they can. For example, at night, pick out and clean water buckets, or whatever is reasonable.

Just because person X is not doing all the horse care and has a $30,000 horse does not mean that Person Y, who does all the horse care and has a $3,000 horse, is better than Person X.

JR/YR Dressage
Member of the TEEN CLIQUE

MsHunter

Feb. 22, 2004, 08:14 AM

This is ONLY my opinion, and I AM entitled to it. I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY to what he had to say. Maybe the point was people competing at the top levels and winning not ALSO knowing about different bits, care of the horse, grooming, starting them, tack fitting and on and on. I don't think it was aimed at the average joe who has a horse and takes care of it themselves. We as an industry need to keep the top level performers of the next generation also to become proficient horseman.
This comes from spending time with your veterinarian, your farrier, your trainer, your grooms, your braider etc etc. I am shocked at how many people CANT load a horse who is less than enthusiastic about getting on a trailer just as he said. Some of us have had the same experiences as Denny is stating. I also agree it is a time jam for many and people just can't get their kids to stay at the farm longer. I am privileged to have been able to bring 2 young riders all the way through being horseman. THey never had the opportunity financially to win in the big eq or qualify for indoors, but they still have the desire to do that one day. For now, they are happy working with babies, learning how to be horseman, and showing their horses on the C-A circuit to the best of their abilities and are winning, just not capable of gaining enough points to qualify anywhere, and that is just fine for now! I have seen too many kids fall off a horse in big eq, bridle comes off and they have no idea how to get it back on!!

Owner/Trainer of http://www.geocities.com/plumstedequestrianctr/

Batteries Included

Feb. 22, 2004, 08:29 AM

you all are saying Mr. Emerson was trying to get peopel to think...
am i no longer entitled to think??
it got me thinking that there isnt any respect for the kids (and people for that matter) who do all the dirty work and have fun doing it.
in no way shape or form was this 'rant' targeted at Mr. Emerson personally just like the article wasnt directed to me but that doesnt chage the fact that the good kids who do everything themselvs (most of it anyway) are under apreciated and my point was that there are good kids out there and not everyone is a snob and people CAN do things them selves.

and you all are saying not to judge Mr.E or form one sided opinions...arent you all doing that with me...you all read my post (which said rant quite clearly in the title) and most of you say i am self centernd, show off,and have no right to say what i said. if i dont have the right to say what i said you all dont eather...i may have chaged my opinion before but its back to where it started with the good kids who do it all dont get any credit (or so it seems)

kudos to those who didnt go against me just because he posts here and he might read what they say and he wont like them...WHO CARES hes a regular person like you or me and i know all of you have someone you dont care for all that much whats the difference now? tell me because i really would like to know. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

-Caroline
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary
Average every day sane psycho
Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

imissvixen

Feb. 22, 2004, 08:45 AM

Has anyone other than the poster actually read this article? I haven't but based on the excerpts in her rant I think she has misinterpreted Denny's intent. I don't know him very well but I have seen him once ride my girlfriend's goofy horse and within 5 minutes turn him into a lovely horse -- probably the most incredible transformation of a horse I have ever seen. Based on that my impression is that the guy is not mean-natured.

I get the impression that he was trying to say that because we have evolved into a primarily suburban commuter society that kids and adults don't have the opportunity to interact with horses the way they once did. I can certainly attest to that. Horses and horsekeeping demography has changed substantially in the past few decades much as there has been a substantial change in farming and the amount of farmland in the US.

It is also true that societally we are moving away from manual labor. We don't beat our clothes against rocks in a stream to get them clean, we don't use a wringer washing machine. Lots of us don't have time to cook dinner or even go to the grocery store. So, why hasn't someone created an easier way to keep stalls clean?

The original poster should consider herself to be exceptionally privileged to have the time and opportunity to be so involved in the horse worl -- I think that was the underlying message in what Denny was saying. As you get older you will learn that while money seems the ultimate luxury, it's not. The ultimate luxury is time.

buzz4

Feb. 22, 2004, 08:48 AM

BI
No one is trying to say you don't have a right to your opinion or not to post it here! I do not know Mr. Emmerson, nor am I worried what he will think of what I write. What I am concerned about it the delivery of what I have to say. Yes, you did clearly write "rant" in your post so people were prepared to read a "heated" thread. I think the point is that you may have gone past the point of diplomacy. You are ENTITLED to think and say exactly what you want but the manner in which you say it needs to be considered. "This Denny character" does not show Mr. Emmerson (or anyone for that matter) the respect that they deserve.

That said, I applaud your dedication to this sport and hope you will continue to work hard for your goals. You are young with many years ahead of you in the riding world and I know you do dnot want to allineate anyone because you were a bit overzealous in wanting to state your opinion. Diplomacy and respect for others are what really matters (even if you agree to disagree).

I'm off my soapbox now!

http://community.webshots.com/user/beezer44

merince

Feb. 22, 2004, 09:18 AM

You are more of an exception than you think.

http://www.mypooch.com
Hand-made, custom-fit pet outfits and leashes.

poltroon

Feb. 22, 2004, 09:29 AM

BI, very few kids today have even the opportunity to be around horses all day, let alone both the opportunity and the dedication. In the "old days" when more people had ponies in their backyard, kids picked up horsemanship and a love for horses more holistically. When boarding is required - if you live in a city or suburb it is - you can't be there when your horses are fed and you can't get the same feel.

BI, I didn't read the article, but I'm aware of the general sentiment. It's not necessarily the fault of the kids... rather, it's a discussion of how things have changed for kids in the last 30 years, and how those changes will affect our industry. If kids don't get to grow up galloping around on ponies, how will we foster their love for horses for the long term? How will we develop and preserve their skills?

I seriously doubt Denny thinks he's described all kids. He has a wonderful working student program, and I expect that he sees a lot of hardworking and skilled kids coming through it.

Scootie

Feb. 22, 2004, 09:32 AM

Batteries Included,

I understand you felt personally offended by Mr. Emerson's article but realize that my initial reaction to your response was also to be mildly offended. I think many of the kids he was describing may have felt offended by the article also, since many of them have no other choices if they are to ride at all.

Imagine having parents who insist on paying all kinds of money for "only the best", which amounts to having all the valuable non-riding horse experience sucked out of reach just so you can ride at all. Of course, from a parent's point of view, even if I were willing to drive for two to four hours round trip for my kid to have an hour's riding lesson, I don't think I would feel up to waiting around for any additional time. Parents have lives too, you know. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

There is even something worse than that--not even living where decent riding lessons/experience are even available--some kids have to put up with only a yearly trail ride on vacation, IF THAT. I mean kids who are no less horse crazy than you, can you imagine that? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Even worse, there are kids whose parents simply will not PERMIT them to ride or have anything to do with horses whatsoever. Even when access is not a problem. This is bad because any barn owner who tries to offer kids opportunities like the ones you have could get into a lot of doo doo if those kids don't have their parents' permission to be there. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Then there are young people whose physical, economic or social situations totally preclude horses and riding no matter what they want or what their parents want for them. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

I hate to sound like Somebody's Mother, but be grateful for what you have. Use the advantages you do have to the fullest. Remember some of what you might perceive as dis-advantages could be blessings in disguise. There was a time when "only getting to ride the horses nobody else wanted" would have been my equivalant of "having everything handed on a silver platter". What I wouldn't have given to have the OPPORUNITY to learn to ride well enough for the PRIVILEDGE of being considered worthy of doing this.

Batteries Included, you are doing fine. If Mr. Emerson ever met you he would probably be proud of you. Its just a matter of perspective.

Founder and president of the No-Legged Rider Clique

slc2

Feb. 22, 2004, 09:33 AM

i think emerson was saying what is true for very, very many kids. i think he has some very good points.

because ONE KID spends a lot of time around horses, doesn't mean emerson's issues aren't a problem for many kids.

at 14, you probably don't realize this, but speaking in generalizations about a general, widespread problem, isn't the same as saying every single kid has the problem. or that YOU have the problem.

calm down and listen to denny, he is a very, very experienced man, and very smart, and he knows a lot about horses and competing and has been around for a long time.

and YES...even if you are 14 and know everything there is to know (believe me, i was 14 once too), you can still learn from denny emerson.

i read the article. i read everything emerson writes that i can possibly find, and i don't even event. i think he has a lifetime of experience to share with people, and much of value to teach.

TatteredDaydreamer

Feb. 22, 2004, 09:48 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trixie:
I hear both sides of this.

I've been the hardworking kid, and for years got no respect for it. But it more than paid off in the end.

I also live in the city and have a job. I more than understand that it can in fact be difficult to find time to spend, and sometimes it's easier to spend money than time (would be better if I HAD money, but okay, irrelevant http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). Hence, sometimes one has to take a cab to work instead of walking a mile when one is in a hurry. But that doesn't mean they haven't put the miles in.

So yes, both sides have a valid point. But it's also a point that has been broached many, many times before. Any time someone makes a generalization, the exception to the rule pops up, indignant about it. Times change and lifestyles change, but there's no real "right" or "wrong." There is what there is, you be what you can, and do the best you can do. Hopefully, that will be good enough.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Firstly, hey darlin'! Been a while since I've seen your name pop up on the boards!

Secondly, I completely agree with Trixie. I find it saddening that in this day and age, the points that Mr. Emerson made are "generally" correct. For every one kid who loves, spends time with, cleans and takes care of their horse, there is probably 10 who show up at the shows, hope on, ride, hand the horse back to the groom and go hang out with their friends. I'm not saying that BI didn't have the right to get angry and frustrated with the article, but the points in it are very valid. Opinions are opinions are opinions. The day someone isn't allowed to have an opinion is the day I'd really rather not be around to witness.

BI, be proud that you're an exception to the rule, but realise that there are many out there who aren't.

Lindz

"And my good dreams? They all come with a velvet muzzle and four legs. All my good dreams are about horses.--In Colt Blood

Lisi

Feb. 22, 2004, 09:54 AM

Maybe you should just be grateful to be a 14 year allowed to spend that much time at the barn. My parents have always insisted that I have a non-horsey extracurricular life. I've never been allowed to spend all day, every day at the barn. I would have liked to, but you don't argue with the people who pay the boarding bills.
You have the satisfaction of knowing you are putting in the effort and getting the reward: knowledge and experience as a real horseman. Don't worry about a label laid on a group of kids that this Denny Emerson is talking about, since it so clearly doesn't apply to you. Just be glad you're getting what they are not.

XHalt

Feb. 22, 2004, 10:06 AM

Mr. Emerson is probably one of the greatest horseman around. He is old school. Believes a rider should know how to take care of a horse. I find the majority (not the minority, like you BI) of kids especially in the H/J world to be exactly what Denny described. I know that it really frustrates me to witness the ignorance and lack of care that so many display. I believe that if you can't (or refuse) to take care of a horse, you shouldn't be allowed to ride it.

Much of this to me stems from economics and animals should never enter into an economic equation, but they do. Therefore, it's the trainers responsibility to make sure their students are competent in all aspects of horse care, not just making it around a course in the ring.

Hexel

Feb. 22, 2004, 10:32 AM

It seems to me Mr. Emersons points were valid, when looking at the big picture. He made very good points. As mentioned by MS Hunter, I felt a point of the article was, we need future generations of horse folks that have lots of true and tried experience. This comes from spending allot of time with horses of all levels and all aspects. I have never learned as much about horses as in the past 10 yr's breeding them. Some of Mr. Emersons article brought tears to my eyes and I found myself saying yes, yes, yes. We will not always have these greats, to learn from. If their footsteps are not followed, we will have fewer of them to learn from in the future. This, it seems to me may compromise the level of horsemanship in this country.

BI Your feelings are founded. It is understandable, you do spend time at the barn and sound very dedicated. I do not believe this article was directed to you.

sid

Feb. 22, 2004, 11:49 AM

The original poster should take solice in the fact that she is the EXCEPTION these days (IMO).
And she should be proud of it!

I tend to agree with Denny. In the last 6-8 years, I've found it a rarity to encounter "horsey" kids and young adults who don't pretty much fit Denny's description.

Sad.

Susan Doner, Little Bull Run Farm. Standing Boleem, Argosy and King's Camelot. www.littlebullrun.com (http://www.littlebullrun.com)

dogchushu

Feb. 22, 2004, 11:49 AM

I haven't been a kid for a long time. However, I am one of those people that considers herself darn lucky if I get to spend 2 hours a day with her horse! I wish it were otherwise. Unfortunately, until those other folks quit winning my mega millions jackpot, I gotta' keep the paychecks coming!

I don't take offense to articles like Denny's. On the contrary, I recognize that getting time on and around my horse is one of my big challenges. As a result, I can accept that my progress may be slower than that of someone who can spend that time in equine company. And I adjust my expectations accordingly. Nope, I'm not going to fix my problems overnight, or in a week, or even a month. It's going to take longer because I'm not around to put in the time as regularly or frequently as needed to make rapid progress. So, rather than looking for a quick fix, I've learned that I need to be patient and accept that, given my schedule, things are just going to take some time.

Heck, I have a super pre-programmed, user-friendly interface horse. But, given my limited riding time, I do run into situations where I find my tool box limited. There are times when the unexpected happens and even my super pre-programmed, user-friendly interface horsie requires a call to the help desk! Someone around horses more often than I is probably more used to that and can therefore handle those situations more readily than I.

Sure, you can have a wonderful time around horses even if you can't be at the barn every day. But you have to accept that your progress may be slower than those who can.

And Batteries, you are the exception. Many of the kids I know would love to be at the barn riding 8 horses a day. But it's just not possible for them since they live 30 minutes away from their horses and have many other commitments. I think Denny was pointing out that situations like that cause limitations in what you can do, and he then made suggestion for kids in that situation to help them get the time and horse knowlege they (not you) may need.

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

CoolRunnings

Feb. 22, 2004, 12:02 PM

I can see both sides of the issue here. I am 15, have been riding for eight years and have never owned a horse. I also know that I will not own one until I can pay for it myself. Luckily, I have had some great people set me up with good situations where I can ride when I want and do what I want. I understand that my parents can't afford to get me one, so I'm just working as hard as I can so that when I'm older I will be able to. Not all of us are so lucky as to have parents who support riding.

On what was said about "being at the barn just two hours a day," I do think that's a bit unfair. I can't drive, so I go to the barn when my parents can/will take me. I usually go out three times a week (four if I'm lucky!), tack up, ride, groom etc...then leave. I do all of my own work at the barn with the horse I ride, so it normally takes about 4 hours. I sure as heck don't know too many kids that have time to go atleast two hours a day with school, I'm working my tail off with these hard IB/AP classes!

On the other hand, I do see where Mr. Emerson is coming from. I know teenagers that have everything handed to them on a silver platter. Yeah...I'm jealous, but I can see they don't appreciate things very much.

So, don't let it bother you too much. Work hard for yourself, not anyone else because you're the only person you can fully control what happens to. You will turn out much better than the kids that can afford their own countries.

**Mary**

"No matter how big, soft, and warm the bed is, you still have to get out of it."

MeanderCreek

Feb. 22, 2004, 02:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>it got me thinking that there isnt any respect for the kids (and people for that matter) who do all the dirty work and have fun doing it.
in no way shape or form was this 'rant' targeted at Mr. Emerson personally just like the article wasnt directed to me but that doesnt chage the fact that the good kids who do everything themselvs (most of it anyway) _are_ under apreciated and my point was that there are good kids out there and not everyone is a snob and people CAN do things them selves.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is just the kind of generalization that you are ranting about.

SOME of the "good eggs" may very well be under appreciated. However, in my experience, hard work, dedication and a good attitude ARE appreciated, respected and generally well rewarded.

dressager

Feb. 22, 2004, 08:57 PM

I think everyone is really doing the best they can, but you know what I get tired of? I think that the whole reason you posted this was to tell everyone how hard YOU work vs. others. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it came off to me.

Dressager (http://www.geocities.com/lubenkafarm)
You don't throw a whole life away just because its a little banged up - Tom Smith A Better America (http://join.johnedwards2004.com/join/fundraising/poly7825-73501)

meganjc

Feb. 22, 2004, 09:42 PM

Batteries Included- I am the "poor kid" at my BNT's barn. I go every summer as I working student, and I have to maintain my horse at home during the school year. Be glad we aren't in the spoiled brat, hunter princess group. We know the difference between a standing & running martigale, we know how to wrap legs, we can feel if our horse is off just a little bity bit b/c we ride him everyday, and we actually know what to do if our horse colics. Believe or not some of these, "I can only get on and show," kids might not always have the fincial backing of their parents. When they are on their own and 30 and can't afford the horse to be at the BNTs 24/7, they will be up a creek. You on the other hand, are already way ahead of them.

nightsong

Feb. 22, 2004, 09:55 PM

What a good way to put it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Love is all there is

tle

Feb. 23, 2004, 06:10 AM

So in the course of less than 30 minutes or so, you've managed to post this on 2 different forums and then suddenly calm down and see that you're "opinionated and only 14" yada yada yada? Nope... don't need anger management... need to grow up.

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

Pechvogel

Feb. 23, 2004, 07:52 AM

Denny Emerson is one of the most experienced and TRUE horsemen of our time. His articles are always well-written, address critical points, and hit a nerve with someone (good or bad). In this case, I don't think that the OP read the article closely enough and/or did not understand what Mr. Emerson was trying to convey. NO WHERE in this article did he say that all American children are spoiled, don't know how to take care of their horses, or don't work hard enough. He made a very valid point that most American children are not in a position to spend as much quality time in a barn as children did 2,3,4 decades ago. He makes good suggestions on HOW to become a better horseperson and if anything, he places NO blame on the children, but on the trainers who don't teach true horsemanship. Of course, part of the problem is that most of the current generation of trainers aren't true horsemen either. I would recommend reading the article again and choose a different perpective from which to read it, i.e. not automatically defensive.
-Karen

Pixie Dust

Feb. 23, 2004, 08:02 AM

BI, since you are so knowledgable, why don't you write your own editorial.

BTW, I'd never let someone so in need of "anger management" sit on MY horse. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

America's Pride

Feb. 23, 2004, 09:07 AM

Batteries Included - Good for you that you are one of those kids that gets to spend lots of time at the barn but unfortunately there are many kids that don't. Some of them have not only one but two or three horses sitting in a stall waiting for some love for weeks before they even get a brush ont heir coats by them. Aside from whetehr they want or not to get to their horses, a kid that lives in acity where distances are a factor, and traffic is another.

I did grwo up with my horses sort of near by and was one of those lucky kids that got to spend lots of time at the barn, got o shows etc. At college, well lots of horsey time for the firts years but then once academics cought up with me, I still managed to go and take care fo my beast but was lucky if I had enough time to stay at the barn for 3 hours. Not because I did not wanted but I simply had no time.

Now, my horse is boarded and is not that far away from my house/work but unfortunately with traffic it can take quite aling time to get there. I can see that there are some kids wanting to get to their horse but realistically, once they get out of school, it can take them up to an hour to get to the barn, tha tis just one way, make it roung trip, ad to that homework and the time they actually spend at the barn and that makes it way late already. That's how I see Mr. E's article. So If I where you I would not take it personally, he is not atacking you, you should be proud instead by being able to spend that much time around horses I sure will love to!

Anyplace Farm

Feb. 23, 2004, 09:30 AM

Most of what Denny says is correct. Yes, there are exceptions. But most of today's kids are not nearly as active as kids of yesteryear.

Back in my day (70's) your kids did your lawn, shoveled snow, hauled and spread gravel, chopped wood, weeded gardens, cleared woods, built fences and barns and hauled their own trash to the local dump, cleaned house, did laundry, ironed clothes, you name it. They (at age 12) also had dinner cooked and waiting for their parents when their parents got home from work. This is how it SHOULD be.

I drive down my street several times a day on weekends and there is hide nor hair of a child anywhere. Everyone has lawn service and their doughy, fat kids are laid up in front of the TV or diddling around with their computer games or hanging out at the mall.

At one barn I used to teach at, kids came to ride their horses and left. At another barn I teach at now, there are kids working their butts off for their board and pocket money, etc. It is just a different culture. So, I know working kids are out there, but I know Denny isn't delusional. In many circles, he is correct.

`````````````````````````````````````````
"I NOW INFORM YOU THAT YOU ARE TOO FAR FROM REALITY."
Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, Iraqi Minister of Information

"Life ain't certain...ride your best horse first." Unknown

Kels

Feb. 23, 2004, 09:31 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by lilblackhorse:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sobriska:
Yes, and please address him as Mr Emerson. Not "that Denny guy". You are educated and I know don't get by in your world by being disrespectful. You can rant. Just be respectful. Make all of us proud when you write that letter http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thank you---calling him " that Denny character" chaps me in the wrong place BI. I know you are young, but maybe before you come on this bb, where he posts btw, you could have perhaps done a search on google and learned who he was and what his credentials are.

We all know him as an awesome person, great rider, and usually a speaker of the truth. I think you were really rude to just rant without doing any further study into who you were slamming.

Plus, you are obviously an exception to the rule---reading some others of your posts, you do well, other than the atrocious spelling.....keep riding, lose the chip on your shoulder, and watch who you slam--the horse world is very very small, and things can come back to bite you on your butt.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed! And PLEASE no one encourage her to write a letter, she will only embarass herself and make the kids who do work hard in the barn look like they don't work hard in school, as well!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SunshineGA:
A)I agree with everyone else,

B) I would just like to add something-

I read the article a few days ago and honestly appreciated it. I like to consider myself an "exception". I was never handed anything on a silver platter, and I had all the hardest horses to ride (you know the non-$70,000+ horses/ponies that the other juniors/kids got to ride...). I also used to help feed/water/muck just for fun. I was also the kid that rode all the crazy horses until they were broke enough for the rich kids to ride and had to hand them over (post-emotional attachment, and got to watch them win). I was also the kid that got to hack one of the plenty of these kids ponies in their divisions for them to get points. But hey, I consider myself luckier and a more capable rider in the long run (although I was jealous at the time...didn't realize how lucky I was)

I was very glad to see that the people I have respected my whole life have taken note of this. No, he did not mention any of the exceptions, yet I'm sure he knows we're out there. It just seems that a lot of trainers smile and nod because these are the kids that put dinner on their tables every night, not the "exceptions" to this very genereal generalization (did that makes sense?)

So consider yourself lucky that you are an exception, and do realize that even though no one outwardly states you are, they do notice your existance. And they most likely appreciate you too. So smile, nod, and agree. You know these kids too, but be grateful that youre not one of them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too, and I am damn proud. Go us! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Adelita:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Parents and children become commuter horse people, lucky if they spend two hours a day in actual proximity of a living horse. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find myself getting defensive over this statement. Two hours a day! I should be so lucky. I am a working adult who is balancing all kinds of stuff, including my horse time. I would LOVE to be able to be out there 7 days a week, for "only" two hours a day. Sheesh.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too, Linda http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sobriska:
Because probably as a rule, the hardworking type of kid that you are comes from a backround where Mommy and Daddy can not afford to by you that 50K horse. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. My parents could have bought me that horse but decided, instead, to make me work for what I had. I appreciate it, and will do the same for my children.

Batteries included: I agree with your frustration, 100%. It sucks, doesn't it? To have those out there who get the 50k horses and get to go to Florida for the winter and win everything and have the opportunities we can only dream of. Keep working hard, it won't be for naught, I promise.

It sucks that people judge kids, but they do that. Not only in the horse world, but in everything we do.

I agree with Mr. Emerson's article- we should educate people on why this is NOT a good thing. Children (AND ADULTS) should know the value of hard work. I have the "what is the world coming to?!" and I am only 19. People, get off your butts and MOVE! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-Kelsey-
"Where's the fruitbat?!"

Sandbarhorse

Feb. 23, 2004, 09:56 AM

Hey BI, be proud of what you are!!

My guess is that Mr. Emerson did not mean his article as an attack on kids of either type. He was probably trying to draw attention to what he considers a "problem" with the sport and trying to encourage the adults in the sport to find a way to fix it.

Zipping my flame suit here - I personally find the fault to lie within the riding programs. When I was a kid, I rode at a barn that sold a series of lessons. 4 were riding lessons, one on the ground. You couldn't ride, even if you signed up for another series, until your ground lesson was completed. We usually did our's on rainy days, sonce we were the poor folk, without an indoor. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Still, it forced us all to learn to tack, muck, clean tack, learn about wound care, conformation, etc., at least 1/5 of the time. To me, this is the perfect solution. Those of us who signed up for summer camp, learned even more, as only 2 hours was spent riding, the rest was spent taking supervised care of your assigned horse and tack.

Come on, everybody, encourage these programs!! It may not be perfect, but it's a start! So what is a student has the nicest horse in the barn and his/her parents have the most money! Self-sufficiency is good for everyone, even if you don't NEED it most of the time!!

I also encourage Mr. Emerson to post on this thread. To clarify his intent and propose a solution.

I expect this thread may never have happened if it had mentioned those kids who are hard and knowledgeable workers, despite the obstacles, but hey, some of the facts really did need to be printed by someone of your caliber, Mr. E.

BOSS Mare

Feb. 23, 2004, 10:03 AM

I think Caroline has every right to rant and rave about what is bothering her.
At 14 and being a one and a million child she may not understand that there are a million kids out there NOT like her (by the way where can i get a good one http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif)
And being a trainer myself I can relate to what Denny has said about the children.
But in her defense, it is natural to rant about something that angers you and something you don't agree with. I have read this forum for a long time and a lot of us are guilty of that http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif In fact look at what is going on right now? Some people are angry with BI and ranting because she does not agree with what was said in the article...(hmmmmmmmmmm)
Any way, she is entitled to her opinion. And she is a child, something we should keep in mind!
Denny is extremely talented and speaking what he knows. But that doesn't always mean everyone is going to agree with what is said.
So not sure why I am preaching http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif But I have to say I respect the opinion of all parties involved!

~We all rise, We all fall....Get up and get over it ~
~~AIM-BossMare~~

LisaB

Feb. 23, 2004, 10:37 AM

From personal experience with Denny at a clinic, he gushed over a 14 yo girl with a fantastic horse. She was an excellent rider with a good head on her shoulders and had enough sense to buy a fantastic horse. He does recognize the good kids but he sees what I think a lot of see. Kids that don't know a hill of beans about horses. This is not all kids. I've seen some wonderful young people come up through the ranks from hard work and a brain in their head.
At a A hunter show, a teenager was showing me her horse. I was playing with him. He obviously got a lot of affection from his groom. She just looked at me like I was from Mars. She had no idea how to play with her own 6 figure horse. Such a shame ... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

tle

Feb. 23, 2004, 11:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>But in her defense, it is natural to rant about something that angers you and something you don't agree with. I have read this forum for a long time and a lot of us are guilty of that In fact look at what is going on right now? Some people are angry with BI and ranting because she does not agree with what was said in the article...(hmmmmmmmmmm)
Any way, she is entitled to her opinion. And she is a child, something we should keep in mind!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First, yes she does have the right to express her opinion. However, it was the WAY she expressed herself that is so insulting. Yes, she is a child and may not know better, but that's no excuse. If everyone just dismissed everything a child did that was wrong as "he/she doesn't know any better" without correcting their behavior... well... the world will go even more into that handbasket than it has already.

In addition, and something that should be apparent to BI and MM and all the others, there IS a way to disagree with someone else without disrespecting them... something BI's initial post sorely lacked.

and before BI can respond with another sentence on how she respects those who respect her... sorry... you're 14... you need to EARN respect.

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

BOSS Mare

Feb. 23, 2004, 11:20 AM

And my point was simply stating that a whole lot of people who are not 14 were quick to react in the same way they were angry at her for acting.
But I guess it is rare on the COTH to be able to speak without getting attacked.
We should respect each others opinions.
But, what the heck do I know http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
Just an opinion!

~We all rise, We all fall....Get up and get over it ~
~~AIM-BossMare~~

tle

Feb. 23, 2004, 11:22 AM

to which my respectful disagreement is ...

whatever. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

BOSS Mare

Feb. 23, 2004, 11:24 AM

k

~We all rise, We all fall....Get up and get over it ~
~~AIM-BossMare~~

Pixie Dust

Feb. 23, 2004, 11:25 AM

I just can NOT imagine showing the complete lack of disrespect as a 14 year old. She refered to him as that "Denny character". Of course she can rant, but she can get slammed for it too. If she had expressed her opinion in a respectful manner, the response would have been soooooo different. Here's the thought I'm left with from her post "Kids today! So rude; show no respect." Great job BI! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

It's quite simple. Slam and get slammed.

The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

Batteries Included

Feb. 23, 2004, 12:23 PM

YES i am back yet again!

at no point at all was i saying that Mr E is a bad person or bashing him or anything he stands for.
it was a simple (yes it started simple until all you people came and made it worse ) rant about an article.
It should matter who wrote it. I bet all of you (feel free to take me up on this one)that if the article was left without an author you wouldnt be here to defend it, certenaly not all of you anyway.
I do realize that there are people like those described but there isnt enough attention put to those who arnt like the article says.

and at what point in time did this become a place where i cant say what i feel about a 'famous' person yet you all can say what ever you darn please about me?...show me respect!
in my eyes (yes i am human i have all the parts you all have and FEELINGS need i remind you) this was an article to get people thinking and a chance for kids like me to say HEY WHAT ABOUT US. today there seems to be to much attention put on to what people want to hear, in the horse world and outside. From kids in schools shooting at others to kids not respecting their horses, no one wants to hear eather one. Why not take a break from it all and have a look at good kids.
Yes there will be spoiled milk and rotten eggs every place you go, but there will be good milk that will give you that extra push, and maybe a golden egg thats rare and beautful.
My original point was that there are good kids who dont get the proper respect they deserve.

and no offence, but you are all telling me that you know and respect Mr.E
Well i dont know him or much about him and i cant respect someone who hasnt shown me they deserve it.
(and i am not going to look up anything about him, i realize he posts on these boards and will most likely read what i am saying, so he has every chance in the world to prove to ME that he deserves my respect. )

and as a second note- you all say that i am imature (not openly but i can read between the lines here) and to get a grip. you all should get a grip...you have ALL expessed you opinions here WHY CANT I???

i'll tell ya, some people!
(what i posted in the eventing forum and here's what i have to add...)

respect your elders...ay?
how about respect those who will soon be in your government,teaching your grandchildren in schools(for those of you who openly stated that you arnt a teen), training future horses, and worse of all IN YOUR BARN as the manager,owner,trainer or whatever
get my point yet...
WHY DOES IT MATTER HOW OLD SOMEONE IS?
WHY DOES IT MATTER WHAT SOMEONE HAS DONE?
WHY DOES IT MATTER WHAT SOMEONE IS GOING TO DO?
SHOULDNT IT MATTER WHAT SOME IS DOING?
again i am the black sheep and seem to be standing alone in my battle.

i belive that many of your 'siiginatures' can help me out here (all found here on the COTH BB) so just read them and think, you are the people who belive in these and they apply now as they always seem to...

~We all rise, We all fall....Get up and get over it ~
“Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it.” Goethe
dont ever, ever, EVER quit when you want something. If you work hard and you keep trying you can have EVERYTHING you want.
"If you don't want people to get your goat, stop telling them where you keep it."(you really have to think for this one)
"Crazy is just another point of view" Sonia Dada
"The brave may not live forever, but the cautious never truly live at all"
"Learn the rules so you may break them effectively"~Dalai Lama

think about them. i read and think about these all the time, thats why i thought they were worth saving, i just never thought i would have to throw them back at you. i obvuosly respect what all of you say, if i saved some of it, so why cant you respect what i have to say... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

-Caroline
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary Average every day sane psycho Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

joliemom

Feb. 23, 2004, 12:36 PM

BI - dear, back away from the computer.

tle

Feb. 23, 2004, 12:41 PM

Lest BI be the only one who can put the same post in 2 different places http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Oh for heaven's sake. I should leave this alone, but well... i don't feel like it. BI, have you understood ANYTHING anyone has said?? Your latest post certainly doesn't seem to indicate as much.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Batteries Included:
at no point at all was i saying that Mr E is a bad person or bashing him or anything he stands for.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I supposed calling someone "That Denny person" isn't bashing in your world? Bashing may be harsh, but rude, disrespectful and insulting isn't beyond the scope of the post.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
it was a simple (yes it started simple until all you people came and made it worse ) rant about an article.
It should matter who wrote it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if you don't want a response, don't post it! THAT, m'dear, is the "simple" rule of the internet.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet all of you (feel free to take me up on this one)that if the article was left without an author you wouldnt be here to defend it, certenaly not all of you anyway.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, you're absolutely right. We wouldn't be defending the same article if it was written anonymously because we wouldnt' know that the author was speaking for DECADES of experience, MANY olympic performances, YEARS UPON YEARS of equestrian experience, etc. It is *knowing* this information about the author that leads to many of us defending his POV from someone without that experience.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do realize that there are people like those described but there isnt enough attention put to those who arnt like the article says.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps that's because the article only focused on one aspect. Some things are just too broad to be able to include EVERY little nuance or uniqueness and one has to, for the sake of space if not comprehension, boil it down to what the AUTHOR feels is the most important point he or she wishes to make. Taking somethign personal that isn't targetted at you is a bit insane (not that I haven't been guilty of it a time or 2, but at least I admit it).

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and at what point in time did this become a place where i cant say what i feel about a 'famous' person yet you all can say what ever you darn please about me?...show me respect!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

first, please read my last post where I said it was fine for you to state your opinions as it is fine for others to do the same (just as it was fine for Mr. Emerson to state his in the article). However, it is NOT fine to be rude, insulting and disrespectful.

Also, sorry... but when did the world OWE you respect? You have to EARN it!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My original point was that there are good kids who dont get the proper respect they deserve.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, you're taking the article, it's content, its intent, etc. WAAAY too personal. If you had written initially the paragraph that I snipped for length sake, I don't think anyone would disagree with you. In fact, I think I'd be one of the first to AGREE. However, when you demand respect by disrespecting someone of Mr. Emerson's qualifications, experience, knowledge, and position in the eventing community right out of the gate, you'll have a VERY hard time convincing anyone of anything other than you're a spoiled brat.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and no offence, but you are all telling me that you _know_ and respect Mr.E
Well i dont know him or much about him and i cant respect someone who hasnt shown me they deserve it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Try just being polite and uninsulting then if that is your opinion of a person based on one article he wrote of which you know nothing about him or his experience that the article is based on (which IMHO is EXACTLY what you're complaining all of us are doing to you!!!! WOW!! Pot, this is kettle!)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(and i am not going to look up anything about him, i realize he posts on these boards and will most likely read what i am saying, so he has every chance in the world to prove to ME that he deserves my respect. )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.... I have to let that one go before I get into territory that I'll feel bad about (not sorry, mind you, just bad). But I will say that I doubt he really cares to prove anything to you.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i'll tell ya, some people!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

some people's children!!

In addition (for the stuff she added just to this thread here in OC)....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>respect your elders...ay?
how about respect those who will soon be in your government,teaching your grandchildren in schools(for those of you who openly stated that you arnt a teen), training future horses, and worse of all IN YOUR BARN as the manager,owner,trainer or whatever
get my point yet...
WHY DOES IT MATTER HOW OLD SOMEONE IS?
WHY DOES IT MATTER WHAT SOMEONE HAS DONE?
WHY DOES IT MATTER WHAT SOMEONE IS GOING TO DO?
SHOULDNT IT MATTER WHAT SOME IS DOING?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

YES to all of them because that is how someone EARNS respect. Just like Mr. Emerson.. if you had half the knowledge, horsemanship, experience, and ideas that he has (due to his age, what he has done and is doing) then you'd get some respect. Until that time, face it -- you and everyone else you refer too in the above paragraph as "those who will soon..." are the low people on the respect totem pole and JUST LIKE MR. EMERSON you have to EARN it!! *(geez, I sound like a freakin' broken record here!)

Oh, and those quotes you so much enjoy and think about... you *think* about them, people like Mr. Emerson have *LIVED* them!

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

Barbara L.

Feb. 23, 2004, 12:42 PM

Where is your mother and why aren't you in school?

slc2

Feb. 23, 2004, 12:42 PM

hear, hear.

articles hardly ever discuss problems with individuals, always with groups...and i can say for a fact, most of what emerson described in the article is exactly accurate...they are big problems.

and if you, at 15, believe that you have already heard of every person who deserves your respect, i pity you. i really do.

tle

Feb. 23, 2004, 12:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Barbara L.:
Where is your mother and why aren't you in school?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROTFL!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

or better yet... why aren't you at the barn? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

BethG

Feb. 23, 2004, 12:45 PM

"i obvuosly respect what all of you say, if i saved some of it, so why cant you respect what i have to say... "

I was not going to jump on this thread, but I've read both and my fingers are itching. I suspect that everyone on this board (myself included) would certainly respect what you had to say if you stated *your* opinion respectfully and attacked the content and not the person writing it (there is a difference)! I'm an adult, but let me tell 'ya I treat the kids around me with respect--when they are respectful to me! We have both types of kids at our barn--the princesses and the hard workers. Personally, I don't care how old someone is--what I do care about is their behavior and treatment of others. In fact, we have a 13-year-old who I trust to handle/ride my own horse when he gets too fizzy for me and I get psyched out (unfortunately, I was one of those kids who wasn't able to be around horses when I was younger, so started riding as an adult) because she is dedicated/works hard and is an excellent horsewoman as a result of that hard work. Whether you agree or not with what Denny wrote, starting a post referring "to that Denny guy" (or however it was said) sets a really bad tone. I understand the need to rant--I do it myself on occaison--but don't rant to the world in tone of personal attack and expect the folks to read it to just agree with you.

Unfortunately, I don't think what any of us are saying about your tone, etc. are getting through so I'll just go back into lurkdom.

TSandM

Feb. 23, 2004, 12:53 PM

What's really amusing here is the power that one histrionic 14 year old has had, by overreacting and personalizing an editorial, to generate four pages of discussion. I doubt that, if her original post had been measured and polite, it would have gotten anywhere near as much attention. Which just goes to show you that squeaky wheels turn heads . . . or something like that http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FLHunter

Feb. 23, 2004, 12:58 PM

I agree with the individuals that say you must earn respect. By the way you are carrying on you come across as an immature young lady that is trying to test the waters of the adults around you. An individual like Mr. Emerson has proven himself many times over, he is an adult and, therefore, demands your respect. You are a child (granted you sound like you work very hard at the barn) and Mr. Emerson does not need to earn your respect. Research what he's done, formulate an educated opinion and then humbly challenge his opinions. That is how one gains respect in the adult world.

I also agree that you have taken this article way too personally. Mr. Emerson does not know you nor did he attack you in his article. Relax, things appear in papers all the time that can make us angry if we equate them to ourselves but we don't go off the handle and personalize then and demean the author.

Finzean

Feb. 23, 2004, 01:03 PM

I think the fact that Denny, who has posted here in the past about some very legitimate and important issues, has not taken the time to address this thread just goes to show that he does know an awful lot about children.

Go, Denny! You are a wonderful horseman and those who are able to train, clinic, overhear your ringside comments, etc. are lucky indeed! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fine I give up, do it your way: heels up, eyes down!!

buzz4

Feb. 23, 2004, 01:06 PM

BI

What goes around...comes around. Respect will come to you when you show it for others. Thus far, the door has only swung one way...yours.

http://community.webshots.com/user/beezer44

canterlope

Feb. 23, 2004, 01:07 PM

Warning...This Is A Rant.

This BI chick is the most arrogant, immature, disrespectful, and obnoxious fourteen year old I have even had the displeasure of coming into contact with. If she were my kid, it would be months before she got to see a horse, much less ride one and then she would have to ride in two-point for three more months until the blisters on her arse finally healed.

Oh yeah, I warned you all that this was a rant before I started, so it's okay for me to post what I did. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They say cats have nine lives. They would settle for one good one. Adopt a cat (or dog) today.

tle

Feb. 23, 2004, 01:09 PM

canterlope, darlin', you're on your way to becoming one of my heros! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

Daydream Believer

Feb. 23, 2004, 01:22 PM

Erin, moderators....

Can this thread please be closed as well as the one in Eventing. No one can get through to this child. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif I think it's gone to the level of trolling now and is just getting way out of hand. Not trying to tell you how to do your job, but please....enough is enough. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Thanks for listening.

"No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle..." Winston Churchill

Magnolia

Feb. 23, 2004, 01:22 PM

sniff....sniff.....what is that...... oh, it's a bridge burning.......

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

Pol

Feb. 23, 2004, 02:17 PM

Barbara L, I am also ROFL...I think if the kid had gone to school today, maybe she would be able to spell and express herself a bit better......And, howcome she gets to post her snivelling on 2 boards?? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

alabama

Feb. 23, 2004, 02:46 PM

Quote:
"(and i am not going to look up anything about him, i realize he posts on these boards and will most likely read what i am saying, so he has every chance in the world to prove to ME that he deserves my respect. )"

OMG! That's priceless! I just snorted water out my nose. I haven't laughed so hard in a week! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Erin

Feb. 23, 2004, 03:04 PM

If you think it's a troll, don't feed it and it will go away. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As long as the thread is RESPECTFUL disagreement, I'll leave it open. If some of you feel that there's no changing this person's mind, just stop contributing to the thread... it'll go away.

FionaJ

Feb. 23, 2004, 03:08 PM

"and i am not going to look up anything about him, i realize he posts on these boards and will most likely read what i am saying, so he has every chance in the world to prove to ME that he deserves my respect."

Well, I guess that will teach Denny to sit up and take notice

drifting cloud

Feb. 23, 2004, 03:15 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>"he has every chance in the world to prove to ME that he deserves my respect."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm sure earning your respect is high on Denny's list. Right after giving himself an enema.

"If you don't want people to get your goat, stop telling them where you keep it."

ClemsonGraduateRider

Feb. 23, 2004, 03:17 PM

This thread is hilarious.

- - - - - -
"I found my inner bitch and ran with her." ~ Courtney Love

lilblackhorse

Feb. 23, 2004, 04:03 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by drifting cloud:

I'm sure earning your respect is high on Denny's list. Right after giving himself an enema.

QUOTE]

That was a good one.....and my guess as to why Denny can't be bothered to come here is that he is busy getting all his horses ready for some events this spring.

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

seal

Feb. 23, 2004, 04:29 PM

Of course Mr. Emerson is correct, however, I feel that the problem is far, far, far and I do mean FAR greater than children lacking horsemanship skills due to busy shedules.

I have found that many barns are completely full service--they do everything--and it goes WAY beyond feeding and cleaning. They expect for you to pay for services such as grooming, tacking up, etc. What if you actually WANT to do these things? I have been told that most people expect that all the have to do is show up at the barn, hop on and ride. Maybe that's what happens to these pampered children. They become adults and refuse to take an active part in their horses' welfare.

If you actually want to have a relationship with your horse, you are out of luck. I find it really very sad that people choose not to learn about their horse and care enough to do at least some of the work.

I am actually suspsicous that the real reason why the barns will not allow you to opt out of full service is because they can charge you enormous sums of money and then pocket the difference. It's just another way to wring more money out of the customer. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

MsHunter

Feb. 23, 2004, 04:43 PM

Seal, actually for me it is NOT cost effective to provide the service of tacking up, cooling down, doing blankets, providing grooming etc etc etc. It is a LOSS of income. Our time is more valuable than the hours spent taking care of clients horses. In my case, we provide this service as we thoroughly (myself and the employees) enjoy the horses and tend to them as if they are our own. Since my customers are spread out across the country, I am not sure HOW they could do this themselves. The difference in what we charge is minimal. I encourage local clientele to be an active part of their horses programs, and ONLY in the case of hectic schedules do we provide full service to a customer. In addition, they can always pay for service and still go ahead and groom/tack their horse etc when they are available to do so. As an aside, our lowest paid person makes $8 an hour for manual labor.
Think about this for a minute. If we charge $600 a month, where IS the profit vs how much we pay help to feed, clean, turn out, do blankets, stalls, AND show clip etc? We break even. The ONLY time we make ANY money is when we either TEACH, PRO RIDE or hook up the trailer and go to the shows and services are paid for.

Stepping OFF my soapbox now.

Owner/Trainer of http://www.geocities.com/plumstedequestrianctr/

MyShadeOfPink

Feb. 23, 2004, 04:51 PM

BI if I were you I'd admit I was wrong, back away, and relax.

You are obviously young and maybe not used to your elders comparing what it was like in their day to what it is like now.

My dad also used to walk 10 miles in the snow to get to school. Times change, and in some instances not for the better. You may have felt Mr. Emerson is stereotyping, perhaps even wrong, maybe even attacking you, but from now on I would further research something/someone before publicly insulting someone.

One of those awesome lessons you learn when your a teenager is sometimes your wrong. And you grow with each "I'm sorry, I was wrong".

You can also grow with those instances when you stand up for yourself and believe in what you believe is right. But I don't think this is one of those times.

If you want to initiate a discussion, do so. there have been plenty of threads discussing articles in the chronicle and further, but the ones who were respected and were actual discussions were ones that were started with a mature manner.

Smile, go pet each one of those horses on your extensive string, and thank your parents, trainers, friends, etc for allowing you the opportunity. And the 'denny characters' through the ages that paved the way for you to get where you are http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW: Stop burning your bridges http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jennie
"all these lines fall short of what i had in mind
a failed attempt to capsulize a feeling
so i just try fail and try and try again"
See my albulm Updated 11/11 (http://community.webshots.com/user/myshadeofpink)

RAyers

Feb. 23, 2004, 05:00 PM

Hey, BI, you talk about earning respect from you elders. I tell you what, when you can come out and compete on equal footing with myself, GotSpots, tle, Nevertime, and a bunch of other folks that have run Intermediate, CCIs and higher (I see you never have competed above beginner novice), I will gladly listen to your experience and expertise.

I am a univeristy professor and I have numerous students between 18 and 40 years old. I know that you, like my students, have a lot of knowledge that I can learn from, but if one of my students EVER treated me the way you have treated this discussion (with insults and whining) I would cease to give them any special consideration and, more likely I would be harder on them in their research. Why? Because I was like you one time and after having my lunch feed to me SO many times by experts in both the university and eventing worlds I got sick and tired of vomiting my foot back up in front of my peers and learned how to listen and read without instant judgment.

Reed

Batteries Included

Feb. 23, 2004, 05:42 PM

i said this in the evening forum and i will say it here (not in a rude imature disrespectful childish [insert word of choice here] way)

i am through with this topic.
if i could delete it, trust me i would.
i have said i'm sorry many many times.
i still stand behind my opinions but do realize i was a 'tad' disrespectful and for that i am sorry.
i will no longer be 'contributing to this topic seeing has how it has gotten me or anyone else any where.
GOODBYE!

-Caroline
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary Average every day sane psycho Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

MyShadeOfPink

Feb. 23, 2004, 06:01 PM

showing my age..

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Jennie
"everything has got a sense of permanence attached to it
sucks you in and feeds you until finally you're used to it
and now you're so dependant
now you're so defensive
now you're finding reasons why their all wrong"
See my albulm Updated 11/11 (http://community.webshots.com/user/myshadeofpink)

drifting cloud

Feb. 23, 2004, 06:46 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>i am through with this topic.
if i could delete it, trust me i would.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are the original poster. As such, you can close a topic whenever you want.

"If you don't want people to get your goat, stop telling them where you keep it."

tcgelec

Feb. 23, 2004, 07:15 PM

I don't know...it seems like BI is getting slammed for not showing respect to someone as accomplished as Mr. Emerson, but she, by her own admission did not know who the *heck* he was. So, everyone must be angry that a fourteen year-old was not aware of his accomplishments!?
True, some of her statements were a little harsh and maybe belonged more in a forum of her peers. But they just didn't seem that severe to me. And I'm not kid. But I "got one" and she'll be 14 in August. Rebelling and pushing the envelope is just what they do. Yeah and "occasionally" get a little disrespectful too!
Hey BI I've got a boarder that you remind me of. She goes to college and pays all of her own horse expenses herself and works off her board here with me and also works at another barn every day, before dawn sometimes so she can get our horses done and be to school on time. When I used to board at a show barn years ago I didn't see that many like her, but they are out there. If she leaves to start a career or a family, you can take her place BI!
I think that if Mr. Emerson is half the person that people on this board say he is (and I have no doubt that he is) he would probably be happier that someone had the gumption to say what they meant, even if a little overzealously, based upon what he wrote rather than who he was.
Just my opinion....

As has been said before, it's only a job if you'd rather be doing something else.

lilblackhorse

Feb. 23, 2004, 09:36 PM

no, she didn't know who he was....but soon after she posted, many many people on this board and on the Eventing bb told her who he was....and what his accomplishments were.

It's the fact that after she was told this, she replies with things like this:

and i am not going to look up anything about him, i realize he posts on these boards and will most likely read what i am saying, so he has every chance in the world to prove to ME that he deserves my respect

That shows a tremendous amount of willingness to learn. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

---and as I noted on the event thread, her last post suddenly seems to be missing her proclamation about being "O'Connor obsessed" (sic) and something about Pony Club. Maybe when she found out Denny was a big proponent of PC, she decided that she was above it?

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

hoppy

Feb. 23, 2004, 10:14 PM

I'm quite ashamed at how some adults reacted to BI. You'd think they were the 14 year olds.LAY OFF THE KID AND DON'T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF. Lesson is over and I think she has gotten your points. I've seen alot of adults rant on this board and seen alot of snide comments too. BI - bravo to you for not backing down, especially with a bunch of adults hitting you from both sides. someday you will go places and you have the ability to question and are obviously not a sheep. Maturity will fine hone all of this, just remember this when you're older and you run into a younster just as determined.

SayCheese

Feb. 23, 2004, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by Lilblackhorse:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>That shows a tremendous amount of willingness to learn. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

She is not exactly in an enviornment conducive to learning.

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif
-Alison

tcgelec

Feb. 24, 2004, 03:53 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by lilblackhorse:
no, she didn't know who he was....but soon after she posted, many many people on this board and on the Eventing bb told her who he was....and what his accomplishments were.

It's the fact that after she was told this, she replies with things like this:

_and i am not going to look up anything about him, i realize he posts on these boards and will most likely read what i am saying, so he has every chance in the world to prove to ME that he deserves my respect_

That shows a tremendous amount of willingness to learn. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

---and as I noted on the event thread, her last post suddenly seems to be missing her proclamation about being "O'Connor obsessed" (sic) and something about Pony Club. Maybe when she found out Denny was a big proponent of PC, she decided that she was above it?

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, well.. like it or not, that's teenagers for you. They are over-intense in arguing their point sometimes. Then if they are corrected in a harsh, self-righteous manner, they rebel even more, and find it impossible to back down, let alone back off. It sounds like perfect conformation to the breed standard to me.
BI, I'm certain that people who grew up and went on to change things in the world had more than a few episodes in their teen years like you're having right now. Probably much more than some others who were quite respectful and pleasant and much more acceptable to the adult population and who dutifully revered those that adults told them they must revere.

SayCheese, my thoughts exactly. What has been created here by the "adults" is not exactly an environment conducive to learning.

As has been said before, it's only a job if you'd rather be doing something else.

Two Toofs

Feb. 24, 2004, 04:15 AM

See, and here I was reading the original post and thinking that, for a 14 year old, she expressed herself pretty darn well and refrained completely from using phrases like "NE 1 NO ThIs gUY??!?!?!??". http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BI, you have every right to your own opinion and to respectfully disagree with the opinion of another, no matter who the other is. You are even allowed to make rants regarding editorial pieces on message boards. Yes, it's true. Not being willing to blindly follow the advice & opinions of another, no matter how "famous" that individual might be, is a good thing, IMO.

You have every right to be proud of your accomplishments, and to not like your peer group to be painted with one broad brush. If it makes you feel any better, I have no idea who Denny Emmerson is, nor do I care. That isn't an insult to Emmerson, it just means that I don't know who he is and really don't care that I don't know. He may be the greatest horseman who ever lived for all I know. In my business, we have a "D. Wayne Character". (And honestly, I could care less what he thinks, I don't care how famous - or infamous - he might be. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

Stick with "respect your elders" to the extent that you are not bringing harm upon yourself, and I'm sure you will do just fine. And never be made to feel ashamed for expressing your opinions or being proud of your accomplishments.

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

tle

Feb. 24, 2004, 06:21 AM

whatever. Those of you who are coming into this thread late obviously haven't read teh whole thing... where MANY people were telling her that it IS ok to have an opinion even one that doesn't go with the "norm", but the way she expressed herself AFTER people told her who Mr. Emerson is (think multiple olympian, decades of breeding training and teaching) was flat out rude and insulting. I too applaud BI for standing up for what she thought was right... however, she went too far when she became disrespectful and rude and yet DEMANDED respect herself.

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

joliemom

Feb. 24, 2004, 06:41 AM

Let me make a generalization, why is it that some teens can find every picture or mention of, say, Orlando Bloom on the web, but can't be bothered to research someone, like hmmm, Denny Emerson, BEFORE they rant? Not saying that BI cares for Mr Bloom, but I'm sure she knows how to use Google.

And Denny, if you're reading any of this, I'm sure you could give Orlando a run for his money.

SayCheese

Feb. 24, 2004, 07:11 AM

OMG nooooo. Orlando Bloom is soooo HOT!

-Alison

Pixie Dust

Feb. 24, 2004, 07:15 AM

So BI, what exactly is your point? Are you saying that there isn't a thread of truth in DE's editorial (BTW do you even know what an editorial is?) and that teens are spending more than 2 hours a day with their horses. That all the teens you know are true horsemen?

The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

fleur

Feb. 24, 2004, 07:17 AM

i'd like to see denny do one of orlando's great swinging mount-ups from the ground while the horse is galloping http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif top that, mr. emerson!

this thread is way weird.

tle

Feb. 24, 2004, 07:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by fleur:
i'd like to see denny do one of orlando's great swinging mount-ups from the ground while the horse is galloping http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif top that, mr. emerson!

this thread is way weird.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ummm... I would bet that Mr. Emerson probably INVENTED that move -- and if not, he was at least doing it long before Mr. Bloom was born!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

Sandy M

Feb. 24, 2004, 07:42 AM

I'm sure we could ALL do that move, were we permitted the CGI assistance enjoyed by Mr. Bloom. I just want to know how he managed to stay so CLEAN while being around horses (not to mention Orcs, battles, etc.)

As for BI, I'm just amazed that anyone who ever reads COTH, or is seriously into horses, would NOT know who Denny Emerson is. I suppose she may be an HP, though.

Finzean

Feb. 24, 2004, 08:16 AM

joliemom, showing her exquisite taste in young men, brings up the oh so charming Orlando Bloom..... who HASN'T done a google search on him?!?! His photo is on my fridge with the word HOTY spelled out beside it in my daughter's magnetic letters (there weren't enough to spell hottie correctly!)

We can't compare Denny and Orlando.....that's like comparing a vintage red to somthing really nice but available by the glass.....Both are certainly acceptable but the classic...well, I just don't think that Orlando would last long running Radnor, etc. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Fine I give up, do it your way: heels up, eyes down!!

Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl

Feb. 24, 2004, 08:43 AM

I hope I'm not betraying confidences if I mention that Denny did mention in a lesson a few weeks ago that one of his childhood ambitions was to be able to pick up a chicken off the ground from atop a cantering horse.

He wasn't sure how he obtained that ambition, and alas, there was a lack of fowl in his childhood, so it remains an unrealized ambition.

Theses days, I think he values horses who stand quietly for mounting, but I'll bet he used to be able to do those amazing standstill straightarmed vaults the Irish lads still pull off. Much harder than a galloping vault, in my experience.

Will slink back to work now, praying Denny isn't still reading, as there will be hell to pay in impossible (fun) lines to ride next lesson if he is. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

fleur

Feb. 24, 2004, 09:17 AM

orlando is horse of the year http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (or hottie of the year?)

alabama

Feb. 24, 2004, 09:38 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sandy M:
As for BI, I'm just amazed that anyone who ever reads COTH, or is seriously into horses, would NOT know who Denny Emerson is. I suppose she may be an HP, though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I didn't know who Denny Emerson is before this thread, so I guess something positive came out of the original post (for me anyway). http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm just an ol' backyard western rider so maybe I can be excused. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And to my despair, I don't know who "that Bloom character" is, either. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Mary in Area 1

Feb. 24, 2004, 09:45 AM

I still don't know who Orlando Bloom is, but I sure know Denny. Guess that dates me!

"I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed."--Pogo

SoEasy

Feb. 24, 2004, 09:48 AM

Orlando Bloom, for the uninitiated, those lacking young teen daughters, or who just plain preferred Aragorn, played Legolas in the Lord of the Rings movies. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

CluesGirl

Feb. 24, 2004, 09:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> He wasn't sure how he obtained that ambition, and alas, there was a lack of fowl in his childhood, so it remains an unrealized ambition.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Good one, Jeannette!

Denny rode my horse a few years ago and I just have to say that the impossible line he set up for us to do loked like a bereze when he went through it with Clue!

As for the lack of fowl..does riding a "chicken" little red horse count? (He loved Clue by the way! And that made me love Clue even more!)

tle

Feb. 24, 2004, 10:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SoEasy:
Orlando Bloom, for the uninitiated, those lacking young teen daughters, or who just plain preferred Aragorn, played Legolas in the Lord of the Rings movies. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He also played Will in "The Pirate of the Carribean" opposite Johnny Depp, among other thing (I preferred this role to LOTR).

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

drifting cloud

Feb. 24, 2004, 10:16 AM

I like Orlando Bloom okay, but I preferred Aragorn in LOTR and Johnny Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean. Captain Jack Sparrow can rob my ship anytime! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

"If you don't want people to get your goat, stop telling them where you keep it."

RHdobes

Feb. 24, 2004, 10:17 AM

Which one was Legolas?

PaintBy#s

Feb. 24, 2004, 10:28 AM

BAck on track...

If someone were to write a letter in response to denny's between rounds article..

Where would they send it? directly to him? or to COTH?

(this is assuming you want him personally to read it)

Indie

Feb. 24, 2004, 10:39 AM

RHdobes-
Legolas was the blond elf friend of Aragorn...I thought of him as The Elfin One...always busting out with these cryptic, thoughtful one liners, stayed clean--no matter how ugly/dirty the battle, and was a wiz with his bow and arrow- not to mention his bottomless quiver!

budman

Feb. 24, 2004, 11:22 AM

Oohh, Indie, "bottomless quiver" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Seriously, not only was he always clean but HIS HAIR was never tangled !!! OMGiH, he is sexy.
Although I'd trade any relationship with him for one lesson from Denny.

"There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be." Andy Adams
Gold Chips (http://www.marylandponybreeders.org/item.jhtml?UCIDs=546415%7C560127&PRID=394805)
Blondie (http://www.marylandponybreeders.org/item.jhtml?UCIDs=546415%7C560127&PRID=394809)

nappingonthejob

Feb. 24, 2004, 01:54 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>I hope I'm not betraying confidences if I mention that Denny did mention in a lesson a few weeks ago that one of his childhood ambitions was to be able to pick up a chicken off the ground from atop a cantering horse. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif From now on I'm not going to be able to look him in the eye without cracking up and thinking of this! So much for making a good first impression!

evenstar

Feb. 24, 2004, 02:12 PM

"and no offence, but you are all telling me that you know and respect Mr.E
Well i dont know him or much about him and i cant respect someone who hasnt shown me they deserve it.
(and i am not going to look up anything about him, i realize he posts on these boards and will most likely read what i am saying, so he has every chance in the world to prove to ME that he deserves my respect. )"

k.

"respect your elders...ay?
how about respect those who will soon be in your government,teaching your grandchildren in schools(for those of you who openly stated that you arnt a teen), training future horses, and worse of all IN YOUR BARN as the manager,owner,trainer or whatever"

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

"Enjoy every day with your horses, for they truly are a gift of life." - L. Wilson

ESG

Feb. 24, 2004, 03:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by joliemom:
Let me make a generalization, why is it that _some_ teens can find every picture or mention of, say, Orlando Bloom on the web, but can't be bothered to research someone, like hmmm, Denny Emerson, BEFORE they rant? Not saying that BI cares for Mr Bloom, but I'm sure she knows how to use Google.

And Denny, if you're reading any of this, I'm sure you could give Orlando a run for his money.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

THANK YOU!! I wish I could have put it half so well. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ESG

Feb. 24, 2004, 03:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by drifting cloud:
I like Orlando Bloom okay, but I preferred Aragorn in LOTR and Johnny Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean. Captain Jack Sparrow can rob my ship anytime! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

_"If you don't want people to get your goat, stop telling them where you keep it."_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto. And I think we're not alone; Johnny just won the SAG Best Actor award for that part. <insert eye-poppin love icon here> http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

fullmoon fever

Feb. 24, 2004, 07:07 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Batteries Included:
respect your elders...ay?
how about respect those who will soon be ...., and worse of all IN YOUR BARN as the manager,owner,trainer or whatever
get my point yet... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh, sure. That type of attitude won't get anyone within a mile of MY barn....I'd torch the damn place first! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Founder of the Olde Farte Clique; Member of the Dented Thigh Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
If it ain't tack shopping, it's a waste of time and money.

Sissy

Feb. 25, 2004, 05:47 AM

Just to chime in, after having read this. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif I am with Jolliemom's and ESG. Clearly this is a lucky kid who has a barn to be at and work on. But if she is so all fired knowledgeable and wonderful, how could she not know who Denny is? Where is the wealth of knowledge? Humm... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif And of course - while many would provide age as an excuse.. I don't see that as an excuse to be disrespectful http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Nothing could be finer than to be in Carolina!

SunshineGA

Feb. 25, 2004, 06:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ESG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by drifting cloud:
I like Orlando Bloom okay, but I preferred Aragorn in LOTR and Johnny Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean. Captain Jack Sparrow can rob my ship anytime! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

_"If you don't want people to get your goat, stop telling them where you keep it."_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto. And I think we're not alone; Johnny just won the SAG Best Actor award for that part. <insert eye-poppin love icon here> http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

"When life gives you limes, make margaritas!" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Member of the IHSA clique

http://community.webshots.com/user/sunshinengcsu

ESG

Feb. 25, 2004, 06:12 AM

You know, I just noticed that BI is only fourteen. So why are all of us wasting our time trying to reason (and <gasp> educate?) a silly teenager with an ego the size of Montana and a brain the size of a peanut who is clearly uninterested in either being educated or made to look less foolish? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Next topic, please! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

slc2

Feb. 25, 2004, 06:53 AM

probably because we all behaved exactly the same way at that age. you got a short memory, esg.

lilblackhorse

Feb. 25, 2004, 07:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by slc:
probably because we all behaved exactly the same way at that age. you got a short memory, esg.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ESG is my age---and I can't speak for her, but all my friends at that age (hell, at seven when we started riding!) could name all the horses AND riders who had competed in all the Olympic games ---we knew because we were interested in the sport. By 14, most kids who are "obsessed" with their sports follow it pretty closely, including knowing the famous people in its past. At least that's what I've seen over the years--maybe today's kids are different.

fwiw, my kids certainly know who Baryshnikov and others are in their sport--same thing really, isn't it?

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

wanderlust

Feb. 25, 2004, 08:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by slc:
probably because we all behaved exactly the same way at that age. you got a short memory, esg.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, slc, if I had behaved that way at 14 (which is freshman-in-high-school age, not elementary-school age, btw), I would have had my clock cleaned by both my trainer and my parents. Of course, at that age, I also knew who Denny, Tad, Derek, Bea, Mike, Bruce, Karen, Karen, Torrance and many others were.

I distinctly remember competing at a horse-trials at Denny's farm in VT at 14, and while walking down the path from stadium warm-up to the stadium course, my horse spooked at a cat coming out of the brush and almost knocked Denny over. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif He had been walking in the opposite direction and very quickly moved out of the way to avoid being squished. I was mortified... Denny was a God of the eventing world. He just chuckled and said to me something along the lines of "That is definintely one cat to watch out for!" and continued on his way.

So no, slc, at 14, we weren't all obnoxious know-it-alls with no respect/admiration for those who had done great things.

~formerly Master Tally~

ClemsonGraduateRider

Feb. 25, 2004, 08:43 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by lilblackhorse:

ESG is my age---and I can't speak for her, but all my friends at that age (hell, at seven when we started riding!) could name all the horses AND riders who had competed in all the Olympic games ---we knew because we were interested in the sport. By 14, most kids who are "obsessed" with their sports follow it pretty closely, including knowing the famous people in its past. At least that's what I've seen over the years--maybe today's kids are different.

fwiw, my kids certainly know who Baryshnikov and others are in their sport--same thing really, isn't it?

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Come on, you don't really expect every horse "crazy" kid to know everything there is to know about who's who in the history of the horse world do you? I was very much into horses and was also quite successful when I was riding but I was also a well rounded kid and took part in other activities.

Not only did I ride, but I played the piano, danced ballet and was an honor roll student. I hardly had time to do all this "research" into each of my activities that you suggest is the only acceptable way to determine real horse crazy kids. I think taking good care of her horse, knowing horsemanship skills, mucking out stalls etc is far more important that knowing all of the Olympians in the sport for the last 20 years. I probably couldn't name more than 5 and I am 24 yrs old, riding for the last 17 yrs. I certainly don't think I should be looked down upon however. I ride well, know my horsemanship and have never been in the position where I have handed my horse off to a groom.

I think its common for kids now a days in their discipline to know the current who's who (as in who is winning NOW), but as respected as Denny is, for hunters GM is a far more recognizable name.

I just don't think it's fair (or realistic) to assume that all of our young riders have to memorize the entire history of our sport to be considered true horseman.

- - - - - -
"I found my inner bitch and ran with her." ~ Courtney Love

ClemsonGraduateRider

Feb. 25, 2004, 08:45 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by wanderlust:
[
So no, slc, at 14, we weren't all obnoxious know-it-alls with no respect/admiration for those who had done great things.

~_formerly Master Tally_~<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes but we all weren't an encylopedia of the horse world either. Nor do I think we should all have had to be.

- - - - - -
"I found my inner bitch and ran with her." ~ Courtney Love

wanderlust

Feb. 25, 2004, 09:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ClemsonGraduateRider:

Yes but we all weren't an encylopedia of the horse world either. Nor do I think we should all have had to be. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not saying one should be. Just saying that before one posts a somewhat insulting and very disrepectful rant on a bulletin board known to be frequented by a large number of very accomplished equestrians (including the person the rant is about), they should know about whom they are speaking, rather than calling them "that Denny guy" and demanding that "that Denny guy" prove to her why she should respect him. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Ummm... being on multiple Olympic and World Teams, sitting on the USEF in multiple positions and generally being considered one of the best teachers and horsemen out there... its enough for me. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

~formerly Master Tally~

ESG

Feb. 25, 2004, 09:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by slc:
probably because we all behaved exactly the same way at that age. you got a short memory, esg.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Speak for yourself, slc. I watched every showjumping competition on TV, knew the names, horses and stats for Rodney Jenkins, Michael Matz, Leslie Burr (then Lenahan, as she was then), Melanie Smith, the Leone brothers when all three were still competing, as well as Michael Plumb, Karen Stives, the esteemed Mr. Emerson whose opinion is at issue here, and a host of others. Not having had the opportunities BI has had, this, along with occasional visits to the Posse Grounds (yes, it was there since God was young!) for open shows and the occasional rodeo had to satisfy my craving for horses and horse related info when I wasn't in the saddle (and saddle time was pretty tight in those days). And even at fourteen, there are (were) those of us who were smart enough to listen and not argue with our idols who we knew were smarter and better riders and horsemen than we were. Hollering at and arguing with parents? Par for the course. Saying one thing that crossed your riding instructor, much less one of the GODS of the saddle? Unthinkable. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

lilblackhorse

Feb. 25, 2004, 09:45 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Come on, you don't really expect every horse "crazy" kid to know everything there is to know about who's who in the history of the horse world do you?

. I hardly had time to do all this "research" into each of my activities that you suggest is the only acceptable way to determine real horse crazy kids.

I think its common for kids now a days in their discipline to know the current who's who (as in who is winning NOW), but as respected as Denny is, for hunters GM is a far more recognizable name.

I just don't think it's fair (or realistic) to assume that all of our young riders have to memorize the entire history of our sport to be considered true horseman.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At no point did I say that they have to "memorize the entire history of our sport to be considered a true horseman"...I was speaking for myself, as a horse crazy kid who was interested. BI claimed to be totally obcessed with eventing, yet doesn't know, and more importantly doesn't CARE about someone who has had a lot to do with our sport.

I'm not saying that everyone has to know everything, but in the age of the internet, it certainly isn't hard to find this information.

For me, if I had the internet at 14-and I read an article that rankled me as much as this one seemed to bother her---and it was written by someone whom I didn't know---how hard is it to do a google search? I mean, even at that age, I would have said (Like she did in her first rant) "Just who the hell IS this Denny guy?"...and then I would have endeavored to have found out who he was before I came onto a public bb and looked pretty silly.

As far as knowing GM, yes the HJ people know him well, but when you profess to be an eventer, Denny's name as a member of the Olympic team is right in there as well. Never did I generalize in my statement, I merely mentioned how I and my friends were at that age--we knew about the military's influence on eventing, and the big names in jumpers who were long gone by the time we came along. I obviously can't speak for those other than me--this was my generation. Obviously we can see that admiring those who came before us and did great things seems to be a lost art. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

Ghazzu

Feb. 25, 2004, 10:04 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Anyplace Farm:
Back in my day (70's) your kids did your lawn, shoveled snow, hauled and spread gravel, chopped wood, weeded gardens, cleared woods, built fences and barns and hauled their own trash to the local dump, cleaned house, did laundry, ironed clothes, you name it. They (at age 12) also had dinner cooked and waiting for their parents when their parents got home from work. This is how it SHOULD be.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm. In the 60's, I was the only kid I knew who had to cook dinner 3 nights a week. I felt horribly oppressed.
When I got to college, I was the only person in my group who knew *how* to cook dinner...
I still haven't figured out how my mother could go into the base commissary with no list, and emerge with most of the groceries, sans some perishables, that a family of (then) 4 needed for a month of planned meals.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

ClemsonGraduateRider

Feb. 25, 2004, 10:05 AM

LBH - Point noted.

I guess what I get more riled up about on these types of threads is that they become a bragging point for people
(mainly adults) to say "Well, I knew this, and I did that so I don't know why everyone else can't or didn't." Or, for me, the perception that one is better than someone else BECAUSE of those things. I have a hard time implying that I am better than anyone else on this board, mainly because we only know about each other through what is posted on this board.

I think that kids today apply themselves in different ways to their favorite activities. For one kid, learning about the history of the sport may be way more fun than cleaning tack all day in the barn. Doesn't make kid A any better than kid B just different.

I think here BI just acted without thinking. She responded immediately with her immediate emotions and had she had the opportunity to redo her "rant" might have acted differently. However, her rant did not anger me at all. In fact, I found it quite humourous, one, because I don't think that Denny gives a rats ass what BI thinks of him and two, because I'm sure Denny is secure enough in his own accomplishments to not get his feathers ruffled about something like this. I have a friend who grew up riding with him and from what I hear he is very down to earth and friendly which would lead me to think he might get a kick out of being referred to as "that Denny guy" too http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I would also add, that everything I read here is taken with a grain of salt. After all, it is just an internet BB. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

- - - - - -
"I found my inner bitch and ran with her." ~ Courtney Love

BOSS Mare

Feb. 25, 2004, 11:17 AM

Slam me if you want for defending this child. But I have to do it http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
I think she came on to rant about something that SHE believed in.
Although we may not all agree I don't think that is a reason to jump on spend 7 pages (minus half spent on hottie men http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) insulting her. Obviously in her mind she wanted to stand up for a simple article that she read. i am sure we all read articles everyday we don't agree with on a personal note and want to b*tch to someone.
I have been riding for 22 years. I am 27 years old now. I have worked my butt off my whole life to ride and have NEVER owned my own horse. My work has earned me so much. I started as a groom, moved up to an Assistant Trainer and Barn Manager for a very large barn and now a trainer with my own clients. So maybe if I would have read an article when I was 14 stating that stuff than at that age I would have been mad too.
Remember when you are 14, everything is a personal attack. Even though she didn't know Mr. Emerson that is not something that should be held against her. I have read things on this board and can probably say that I have disagreed with everyone of you at one point. (not that I voiced my opinion) But that doesn't mean that I didn't respect you or your opinion. Just means I disagreed. Doesn't mean that I don't like everyone. Cause except for the occasional troll I have not had one person on here not make me smile at one point. Her reaction to the posting on this board, her "attitude" is perfectly normal for a 14 year old who feels as though she is getting ganged up on. She is in self-defense mode.....
Maybe I am rambliing. But I have to say that I do not agree with the extent us adults have gone to make this child feel badly. The insults etc. if I read that about myself when I was 14 would be quite a blow to my self-esteem. And in all honestly, the last thing I would do is respect my elders after some of us are not acting like elders.
I just think we should let it go.
Forgive the child for not knowing who Denny Emerson was.
Respect her opinion as she should respect ours and let's let it go.

~We all rise, We all fall....Get up and get over it ~
~~AIM-BossMare~~