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nlk
May. 26, 2010, 01:28 PM
Is there a demand of small Junior horses? I have a horse that is boarder line. I was wondering if it would be worth it to get him carded to have it in case I ever have one of my jr. riders or in case I decide to market him later on down the line. But I honestly don't know anything about the Junior market....

Mayaty02
May. 26, 2010, 01:47 PM
A "big" small junior that can make the lines and jump 3'6" is always going to be in demand (i.e. 15.3 7/8 or similar), a "small" large is not (i.e. 16H even). If you can get him to card under 16H would be worth it in my opinion.

If they can't jump around a 3'6" course and make the lines, it's not worth it.

Go Fish
May. 26, 2010, 02:17 PM
As long as they have the step, yes. If they have to motor down the lines, not really.

ponymom64
May. 26, 2010, 02:27 PM
Having a small card is always a good thing.

Cannonball
May. 26, 2010, 02:56 PM
a "small" large is not (i.e. 16H even). If you can get him to card under 16H would be worth it in my opinion.

I going to disagree with this. To the OP yes there is a market as others have said. But to say there is not a market for a small large is not accurate. Just did a quick check of the results from the Hunter Derby in Atlanta this past weekend. 1st. 16.1 1/2 HH; 2nd. 16.0 1/2 HH; 3rd. 16.0 1/4 HH; 4th 16.1 3/4; 5th N/A; 6th 15.3 1/2. So it doesn't really matter as long as it has the step and jumps well. Derbies are the top Hunter competitions and 1 -6 are all smaller than 16.2. I think a 16.0 - 16.2 horse is the most desirable if the movement and jump are similar.

JumpWithPanache
May. 26, 2010, 02:59 PM
Does the horse have to be entered in a Junior division to get the card or just entered in any division? Sorry... not familiar with the measurement rules and planning to take my 15.3 mare to do the Ammy Adults but figured a small card wouldn't hurt if I want to sell her.

Cannonball
May. 26, 2010, 03:04 PM
If she measures 15.3, I'd try to get her to measure a little larger. 15.3 1/2 - 15.3 7/8. Get some help from someone local who has experience. The card won't matter once someone rides the mare assuming she has the step, jump etc, but it could prevent someone from coming to see her.

Mayaty02
May. 26, 2010, 03:06 PM
I going to disagree with this. To the OP yes there is a market as others have said. But to say there is not a market for a small large is not accurate. Just did a quick check of the results from the Hunter Derby in Atlanta this past weekend. 1st. 16.1 1/2 HH; 2nd. 16.0 1/2 HH; 3rd. 16.0 1/4 HH; 4th 16.1 3/4; 5th N/A; 6th 15.3 1/2. So it doesn't really matter as long as it has the step and jumps well. Derbies are the top Hunter competitions and 1 -6 are all smaller than 16.2. I think a 16.0 - 16.2 horse is the most desirable if the movement and jump are similar.


Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the smaller guys, my junior hunter was 15.3 3/4 and could beat any 17H out there. BUT the fact is that having a horse that is the "top of the line" small is more MARKETABLE than a horse that is smaller than all the other larges but too big to measure a small. It's the same in ponies as well. I'm not saying if you didn't have an amazing 16h horse, people wouldn't buy it and pay tons, but you have a ready made market for a top of the line small junior, and not so much a small large.

ponymom64
May. 26, 2010, 03:08 PM
Does the horse have to be entered in a Junior division to get the card or just entered in any division? Sorry... not familiar with the measurement rules and planning to take my 15.3 mare to do the Ammy Adults but figured a small card wouldn't hurt if I want to sell her.

The horse can be entered in any division. My DD's horse just got measured for his permanent card at Old Salem and he was only entered in the modified jr/ams.

FWIW, you might want to see if they can be a little generous with the measure as many peeps will think that 15.3 is too small. Or maybe have your farrier put a higher profile shoe on before you measure....

nlk
May. 26, 2010, 03:09 PM
Thanks so much everyone! That is reassuring! I figured it was like the pony's, top of the height is better, I just didn't know if there was actually a market!!!! I see so many 17+hh out there I was a little worried!

He has the step and the jump! So that doesn't worry me in the least! 3'6 is easy!

Mayaty02
May. 26, 2010, 03:15 PM
Thanks so much everyone! That is reassuring! I figured it was like the pony's, top of the height is better, I just didn't know if there was actually a market!!!! I see so many 17+hh out there I was a little worried!

He has the step and the jump! So that doesn't worry me in the least! 3'6 is easy!
Great! Do you think he's closer to 15.3 or 16? You definitely want to aim for 15.3 3/4 or 7/8 if possible.

DCN
May. 26, 2010, 04:51 PM
If the horse is fancy, it would be worth trying to get it measured as a small. Reason being that the small junior divisions typically have less entries than the larges. So conventional wisdom is that it's a little bit easier to get qualified for indoors and Devon with a fancy small than with a fancy large.

Trees4U
May. 26, 2010, 05:37 PM
If he's a small junior then why worry about the 17 handers out there.
He will be showing against smalls not larges - unless the jr divs in your area don't fill & they combine..
You can card him anytime- and he handles a 3.6 course nicely now?

MHM
May. 26, 2010, 06:15 PM
If you plan to have an official measurement on one that's within an inch of the mark, it's wise to practice a bit beforehand. Get the animal used to the measuring stick, the procedure, the activity. Then check the height again the day before you go to the show, especially if the horse hasn't been shod recently. Make sure the animal is familiar enough with the drill to be relaxed about it.

Many horses will stand up on their toes a little and measure bigger if they get nervous. You don't want to wind up with a card at 16 hands and 1/8 rather than 15.3 7/8.

hntrjmprpro45
May. 26, 2010, 08:01 PM
In my experience it is much more marketable for a horse to be over 16h than under. Yes, it seems ridiculous to me too that even 1/2" would make a difference but so many riders are looking for horses over 16hands. Plus when you advertise your horse, people are more likely to do searches for 16 and over rather than 15 and over (since many do not want to even look at 15.1-15.2ish horses). Also, if you look at 'wanted' ads (like on warmbloods-for-sale.com) you'll notice most will be asking for horses over 16h.

Usually to market a "small" jr you would be looking at setting a lower price than a "large" (even if the difference is only an inch). I wouldn't be surprised if it reduced the price by $5-$10k (just my experience from my neck of the woods). Its a real shame that so many people are convinced they HAVE to have a large horse but thats life and thats the market right now.

Of course it could be a little different on the coasts (I'm in zone 7)...

Mayaty02
May. 26, 2010, 08:28 PM
In my experience it is much more marketable for a horse to be over 16h than under. Yes, it seems ridiculous to me too that even 1/2" would make a difference but so many riders are looking for horses over 16hands. Plus when you advertise your horse, people are more likely to do searches for 16 and over rather than 15 and over (since many do not want to even look at 15.1-15.2ish horses). Also, if you look at 'wanted' ads (like on warmbloods-for-sale.com) you'll notice most will be asking for horses over 16h.

Usually to market a "small" jr you would be looking at setting a lower price than a "large" (even if the difference is only an inch). I wouldn't be surprised if it reduced the price by $5-$10k (just my experience from my neck of the woods). Its a real shame that so many people are convinced they HAVE to have a large horse but thats life and thats the market right now.

Of course it could be a little different on the coasts (I'm in zone 7)...


I agree that the trend these days is bigger = better, however I believe the OP is specifically asking about marketing her horse as a "small junior hunter", NOT a "small" hunter. A horse that can compete in the "small junior hunter" division is very marketable at least on this coast, and since as was previously stated, the small jr division is often not as well attended, the chances for ribbons and points are easier, which attracts some kids, especially those just moving up into the division the pony ranks. I'd venture a guess that most of the top juniors around here have a small AND a large junior hunter.

JumpWithPanache
May. 27, 2010, 07:53 AM
Thanks Cannonball and PonyMom. We measured her a couple days after getting re-shod and right after a jump school. So I'll keep in mind a higher profile shoe and/or trying to measure later in the shoeing cycle. I'll try to re-measure at home a couple times to see when we get the best measurement and to get her accustomed to the stick (although she slept through the process last time).

ponymom64
May. 27, 2010, 08:45 AM
Thanks Cannonball and PonyMom. We measured her a couple days after getting re-shod and right after a jump school. So I'll keep in mind a higher profile shoe and/or trying to measure later in the shoeing cycle. I'll try to re-measure at home a couple times to see when we get the best measurement and to get her accustomed to the stick (although she slept through the process last time).

Sounds like a good plan! We got a great measure on our little guy (15.3 7/8!) He was late in his shoeing cycle and is wearing a taller shoe, he has a tremendous stride and the 3'6" will be easy for him, so I'm not concerned about his ability but that extra 7/8" will make a big difference in his future sale/lease-ability