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TalkIsCheap
May. 16, 2010, 12:02 PM
Discussion in the tack room the other day over this...

3' Oxer is the "out" on the in/out. Envision 4 strides to the in, 2 strides to this oxer. Where exactly would you place the ground pole?

Where would you position the fill, (let's use 3 straw bales and some clipped greens) on this oxer? The bales centered exactly between the front & back rails, pulled forward a bit to be flush with the first rail or pulled forward even more?

Does ramping up the above oxer decrease the likelihood of faults, where by not doing so would increase them?

Would you typically ramp up this and any old oxer as a matter of design?

Would you roll the ground pole out when increasing the jump height or leave it be?

TheOrangeOne
May. 16, 2010, 01:23 PM
Generally, filler goes in front- this oxer had a coop in front and also some brush:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs111.snc1/4817_1091231478008_1143145511_30260187_1419103_n.j pg

TalkIsCheap
May. 16, 2010, 04:01 PM
More specifically, if the oxer is 3' and the spread is at 3', by the mere action of pulling the straw bales forward of the front rails, would you be exceeding the spread of the jump? Thus making it incorrect?

None of us can agree.

toomanyponies
May. 16, 2010, 04:56 PM
No - the spread is the distance between the two top elements.

If you want to encourage a more huntery jumping style, or jumping accross the jump more, make it rampy and pull the straw bales forward, with brush in front. If you want a rub, or encourage jumping up and around the front rail, put them in the center, and make your ground line on a vertical plane.

MHM
May. 16, 2010, 06:26 PM
At many shows now, there's really no such thing as a vertical in a hunter ring. They build a vertical, then put boxes in front of it, then add flower boxes in front of the other boxes, etc.

Wanderluster
May. 16, 2010, 07:54 PM
In hunter courses all oxers must be offset- square/swedish oxers are illegal. :)

Alterrain
May. 16, 2010, 08:16 PM
there really are no oxers in the hunter rings, or verticals either. They really are all triple bars :) Encourages better jumping. Build your jump like everyone else said- back rail, front rail lower, straw bales out in front and lower than the front rail, and brush in front of and lower than the straw bales. A 3' oxer in the hunter ring is built like this, the back rail is where the height is measured.

Janet
May. 16, 2010, 10:00 PM
Where would you position the fill, (let's use 3 straw bales and some clipped greens) on this oxer? The bales centered exactly between the front & back rails, NO! This would be a "false ground line".
pulled forward a bit to be flush with the first rail This gives a very vertical front face, and would be appropriate for jumpers, but not for hunters
or pulled forward even more? YES. This is appropriate for hunters.

But measure your distance and your spread based on the standards, not the fill.

Oxers in the hunter ring have to be ramped at least (IIRC) 3".

copper1
May. 17, 2010, 06:42 AM
How many of you remember when the hunter fences wern't ramped, or had that much fill and dead vertical! :-)

TalkIsCheap
May. 17, 2010, 09:19 AM
Thanks for the input. So help me determine which you'd rather ride as an A/A or Pre-Green.

Ramping up the oxer to encourage less rubs, especially since it's the "out", and possibly help if you don't get a nice 4 stride into it?

But if I wanted to test you, I'd make it more vertical, expect a good pace coming into the 4 stride, and expect a good 2 stride to this oxer. Or would this just piss off you and your trainer? :)

JumpWithPanache
May. 17, 2010, 09:31 AM
I'd love the more technical ride, but then again I did many years as an eventer and thoroughly enjoyed stadium rounds. My hunter coach laughs at/with me sometimes because I get so excited when we ride more technical tracks. For an A/A division though, I'd bet the politically correct thing to do is the more forgiving and rampy approach. But why not challenege the Pre-Green riders to give a an accurate ride to the more vertical face of the oxer? Shouldn't be too hard to move the filler slightly since measurements are done to the standards.

Janet
May. 17, 2010, 10:09 AM
Thanks for the input. So help me determine which you'd rather ride as an A/A or Pre-Green.

Ramping up the oxer to encourage less rubs, especially since it's the "out", and possibly help if you don't get a nice 4 stride into it?

But if I wanted to test you, I'd make it more vertical, expect a good pace coming into the 4 stride, and expect a good 2 stride to this oxer. Or would this just piss off you and your trainer? :)
If it is advertised as a HUNTER course (not a Handy Hunter course) I would be pretty PO'd at a blatant disregard for the rules.

4. A 3” difference is required for the back element of an obstacle. A ground line is required for all obstacles. (Exception: Handy Hunter classes).

scribbles
May. 17, 2010, 10:35 AM
If it is advertised as a HUNTER course (not a Handy Hunter course) I would be pretty PO'd at a blatant disregard for the rules.


BUT they would still have a ground line, it just wouldnt be way out infront of the fence. a ground line is still a ground line even if it is flush with the face of the fence ;)

Janet
May. 17, 2010, 11:04 AM
BUT they would still have a ground line, it just wouldnt be way out infront of the fence. a ground line is still a ground line even if it is flush with the face of the fence ;)

Yes, technically it would be a ground line if it were flush with the front of the fence. But not if it were between the front and back of the fence as originally described.

And I would be fine with a flush groundline (or no groundline) in jumpers of handy hunter. But a "rolled out" groundline of some sort is SOP for hunters nowadays.

Alterrain
May. 17, 2010, 02:25 PM
For the A/A I think flush would be fine, although NOT for pre-greens. ESPECIALLY since it is in a combination (Janet- Can pre-greens even have combinations? It's been a year since trainer showed my guy in the PG, and I can't remember) I don't think I would mind if it was flush in the A/A's, but I would certainly be PO'd if I brought my PG to a show that had in a combination such a tricky groundline.

Janet
May. 17, 2010, 03:06 PM
The main USEF Hunter rules don't seem to say anything about whether or not Pre-Green courses can have a combination. But there may be something in the zone rules. Or there may be an "unwritten rule".

TalkIsCheap
May. 17, 2010, 08:02 PM
Thanks again for the discussion. I would venture a guess that the better course of action (no pun intended) would be to give this fence a good ground line, ramp it with the bales & the fill in front, and make it nice.

We are very much aware of the requirement of a ground line, just how rolled out that rail should be was the question. We also are aware of the 3" difference between the front and back rails. That was never an quandary, rather the particular expected placement of the straw bales these days.

Our trainer is rather old school, so she throws just about any old ugly fence at us.