View Full Version : Somethings "different" at the first A show.
May. 16, 2010, 09:56 AM
Just an observation I have made at the first big A show up here....
Thoroughbreds.....really nice ones!
In the Childrens hunter division (60+ horses), split into two groups - both were won by thoroughbreds.
There was a $1500 TB retirement sponsored classic, scores were absolutley incredible!! One amazing little guy scored an 87/89!
Its just nice to see some really nice thoroughbreds back in the hunterland, last year there were some, but this year there are really VERY competitive ones!
May. 16, 2010, 10:50 AM
Good to see that. Around here outisde the smaller and local shows it's mainly WB's. I prefer the TB's myself, but I'm biased.;)
May. 16, 2010, 11:17 AM
We have a girl in our barn who rides hte most adorable TB. Granted he looks like a WB, but he's all TB. They do really well in the small juniors. I enjoy watching a TB go.
May. 16, 2010, 12:19 PM
May. 16, 2010, 12:25 PM
My WB's socks were knocked off by a TB this weekend. I agree, last season there were some ok ones, but this season there are a handful of ones that just cant be touched!!! I dont think most of these guys were racers, but I dont know for sure. If they were, I must not tell daddy that the $3,000 OTTB beat the $30,000 WB lol!!!
May. 16, 2010, 10:42 PM
So glad to hear. I love the TBs. I have never met one I didn't get along with. Have 2 WBs that are quite wonderful, but there is just something about the TBs. They are just a little bit smarter.
May. 16, 2010, 11:55 PM
I LOVE TB's. It would be interesting to see if TB's become the trend again. I can't see why not....
May. 17, 2010, 12:21 AM
Not to open the can of worms (haha, open a bottle of wine), but I still stand by the fact that WBs are less of a "trend" than just another type of ride in general.
Back in the heyday of the TB, TBs were literally ALL you saw. Of course there was an *occasional* "other" horse, but the large majority were TBs. When the WBs started showing up, there was another option. Simply another option- something that, generally speaking, had a more consistent temperament than the TB (and yes, a well bred, inspected WB will have been bred over generations for things like rideability and overall impression- thank you sporthorse registries).
That's not to say that WBs are better than TBs- they're just GENERALLY (alllways exceptions) a different type of ride. And the WB filled the niche for a lot of ammys that needed a horse they could ride twice a week, take to the horse show, and kick to the jumps. Ever notice how the "trend" of the WB was followed shortly by the "trend" of ample 2'6" and 3' divisions for busy kids and ammys? Just sayin...
So before everyone chimes in with a story about their kicking quiet TB that "acts" and "looks" like a WB, please consider that this post is simply a generalization. Also consider the fact that there are PLENTY of TBs winning in both unrated and rated divisions. Perhaps the concept of TB discrimination comes more from the fact that there are simply LESS of them in the ring these days. Less TBs=less TBs winning.
I have a lovely TB who can certainly take a joke- though he's retired now, he took me from the 2'6" ring to the 3'6" ring in a year. He's the best horse I've ever had. BUT he is, to this day, a horse that needs his own person. He needs a lot of "emotional support". Luckily, his home with me fit that bill.
I also have a SF gelding. He's the POLAR OPPOSITE. He's farrrr less complicated, he goes where ever you take him, and is kind of...dumb. He forms relationships with anyone that pays him any mind, and is happy to have a group of people ride/care for him. He's not better- I actually wish he were a bit more attached to me. But he's an awesome, less intense horse to have at this point in my life.
They're just different OPTIONS. And we're lucky to have options.
I'm glad to see a great horse do well.
May. 17, 2010, 01:25 PM
Proud owner of a CHESTNUT TB here! Mine never raced (though was bred to) and is a complete tank, but he's all TB! I've been told that he's an oddity (he's the most level-headed, easy going, happy-go-lucky horse I've ever owned) and he definitely can lack that awesome TB work-ethic (if it doesn't involve jumps, it's not worth the effort, lol!), but he's consistently in the top ribbons at the As, and jumps everything like this: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31586405&l=168d11bf1a&id=8002195 (and it just gets better the bigger the fence gets)
...And to think he was supposed to be a Pony horse on the track. Glad he's in my barn instead!
May. 17, 2010, 02:14 PM
FrenchFry, agreed, they are a different ride (sweeping generalization, I know), but also a trend. Not everyone meshes with WBs, but that is what was hot and what trainers wanted in their barns and clients wanted to buy. Many people could have gone and gotten a TB off the track or a homebred one. But WBs were "in". That would explain the absolute saturation of them at shows.
I think it is neat that we might see a balance.
In fact, what I have heard and seen a lot of lately is the WB/TB crosses. THOSE are getting hot, hot, hot right now. AND by WB, I mean actual registered WB's, not just something that has been taken to an inspection and is mostly TB (among other breeds) already. I am talking, for example, fine Hannovarian lines and TB to produce a nice sporthorse type. HOT.
May. 17, 2010, 02:24 PM
Proud owner of a CHESTNUT TB here! Mine never raced (though was bred to)
Proud owner of a chestnut TB MARE here! Also one who never raced (although clearly was trained to - I took her on the practice track at Saratoga once for fun and got a whole new idea of what I had).
May. 17, 2010, 06:16 PM
Not everyone meshes with WBs, but that is what was hot and what trainers wanted in their barns and clients wanted to buy. Many people could have gone and gotten a TB off the track or a homebred one. But WBs were "in". That would explain the absolute saturation of them at shows.
I suppose... so are you saying a lot of people are buying horses they don't mesh with? Or that a lot of trainers want for their clients what's "trendy" before what's "right"? Do you have any info to substantiate those claims? Because despite it perhaps being "trendy", trainers actually have a vested interest in their clients doing well... so having a TB client buy a WB doesn't benefit either party, does it?
A lot of people could go buy an OTTB. Problem is, not a lot of people want an OTTB. That's a different kind of commitment than getting a horse going around the ring (even the baby ring) at shows. Comparing someone going out to get an OTTB to someone who purchased a WB is like comparing apples to oranges because, inevitably, the WB purchaser doesn't have to "untrain" the horse in order to start on actually training it to do what it needs to do.
I also wonder- allllll these people describing their TB as "looks like a WB"... if so many TBs look like WBs, how do we even know there aren't a lot of them out there? Of course I'm playing devil's advocate here- very few "WB-looking TBs" actually look like any type of WB, but if there are soooo many out there, how on earth are we supposed to tell?
Sticking to my guns... TBs might not be as popular these days, but I think it's because WBs often fit into the ammy "program" better. Think about it like this: when the model T came out, everyone drove a model T, and they were all black. Then other car companies came into the market, and lo and behold, people started driving other cars more suited to their lifestyles. Same thing- the market used to be ALL TB because there just weren't WBs in this country... a few, of course, but they were the exception. The fact that SOMEWHERE along the line, more and more people began to purchase WBs says something about the market demand for that TYPE of horse. And before we start in on "every horse is an individual", please remember that certain registries seek certain traits. So by virtue of selective breeding, certain breeds have "typical" personalities.
A good horse is a good horse, though, regardless of breed/color/age/gender...
May. 18, 2010, 12:10 AM
Back in the dark ages when I was a junior, there was no such thing as a warmblood. Everybody I knew got their hunters off the track, usually horses that wouldn't break from the gate and ho hummed around the track as two or three year olds. I had a 14.1 1/2 large with a permanent card that was a quarter horse that flunked out of reining school. She jumped great, but didn't hack :)
The first warmblood I saw was in the early '80s, an imported jumper who came along with a lady who moved from Germany. His head was so big and so ugly that she couldn't find a halter in the US to fit (had an Amish man make a halter based on a draft pattern). The joke at the time was that the Europeans kept the best horses for themselves, sold the Americans their rejects, and sold the Japanese and Koreans their SERIOUS rejects.
I have always liked the elegance of the thoroughbred. If you make friends with some of the better trainers at the small tracks, they will call you when they have a good one that won't run.
My choice for a 2'6" to 3 foot childrens/adult amateur horse is an appendix quarter horse. The ones that aren't "flat" enough for the big QH shows have good brains, are good enough movers for a regular hunter show, and stay sound enough to pack juniors and amateurs year after year. A trainer I knew sold the same appendix QH 5 times in her barn - every year, somebody moved up to him and every year somebody graduated off him to a 3'6" hunter or a puddle jumper.
May. 18, 2010, 12:51 AM
While I tend to lean towards a nice TB. They are classic, typey, fine and are true competitiors.
We just haven't caught up with the quality of the horses allowed to breed in Europe. They are very careful to breed only quality lines, test the offspring and track those bloodlines that reproduce time after time a quality horse.
In the US we were not as carefull at keeping track of those lines that produce quality. AND NOT BREED horses because they have the parts to breed. Yes, there are tons and tons of exceptions, and the pony breeders have tried to produce and cross only quality lines.
Plus, it has gotten easier and cheaper to import a horse. A branded horse comes from two parents that have proven their ability to pass on quality. The horses are also tested before they can be branded.
In Europe they just have tracked lines and crosses for many, many years. If it is not quality, it is culled and sold as a pleasure horse, gelded and perhaps spayed.
We are catching on in the US. I love to see the parents listed in results. I love to see the breeding programs and showing is growing AND we FOLLOW FORM TO FUNCTION! It is not enough to stand and look pretty. Breeders are starting to understand that one parent in the family, does not mean breeding a father to "close" family is not always. ie; HYPPA/HERDA.
I am also not knocking the QH industry. I have a lovely, 17.1 H TB mare. Raced, retired jumped thru JR's. My son is working in other fields in the horse industry, so I would love to find a super QH stallion to cross her with. She raced thru her 6th year, then was headed for the breeding shed. NO lameness, correct, pretty super horse. Moved up into the Jr jumpers sound. Now she is just a pasture ornament, so I am looking to cross her on a nice QH. She could be a bit better mover, and not quite as always wanting to win. She could stand on the line, and desite problems in the QH breeding, there are many, many nice ones. I am still schocked to see a horse being advertised as HYPP N/Y!!!!
We are also doing a good job crossing TB's with quality warmbloods. It has taken a while for the US breeders to understand it can take years to develop a quality program. Sometimes we want the "whip and chill" 90 second program. It takes a lot of research, tracking, CULLING and gelding or spaying.
We are catching on and up. I sadly live in a very, very rural area. No stop lights, one stop sign. People still think if it's too lame due to poor conformation and lameness, or too nuts, heck just throw them out together.
I did watch a neighbor, try to breed his Paint stud to a mare with EPM so bad she could not stay on her feet. He finally broke her neck and suffering. So I see worst than most, but I THINK THE TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGING.