Lets play a TB pedigree game

[inmotion]

As we all know there are so many TB's that have found homes off the track, and as the WB people keep eyes on the best stallions, I've found it fun watching the TB racing stallions and trying to figure out which ones produce great hunter prospects.
My boy is by I Am The Game...who is deceased now but I know of 5 of his babies that are either out competing in the zones or will be soon.
His mom is by Sit Ivor. My guess is he's a pretty awesome hunter sire/ grandsire.
Maestro was by Smokin Joe.
I also love another BB'ers Canter TB's style. She named him American Idol and he's by St Jovite.

Any of you have favorite racing TB stallion sires that have crossed into other horse sports?

I know theres a sports horse board, but theres alot of people here that have had x TB's that aren't necessarily known to be out of "Sport Stallions".

Mary

[inmotion]

As we all know there are so many TB's that have found homes off the track, and as the WB people keep eyes on the best stallions, I've found it fun watching the TB racing stallions and trying to figure out which ones produce great hunter prospects.
My boy is by I Am The Game...who is deceased now but I know of 5 of his babies that are either out competing in the zones or will be soon.
His mom is by Sit Ivor. My guess is he's a pretty awesome hunter sire/ grandsire.
Maestro was by Smokin Joe.
I also love another BB'ers Canter TB's style. She named him American Idol and he's by St Jovite.

Any of you have favorite racing TB stallion sires that have crossed into other horse sports?

I know theres a sports horse board, but theres alot of people here that have had x TB's that aren't necessarily known to be out of "Sport Stallions".

Mary

[inmotion]

Opps........typo....his mom is by Sir Ivor.

[inmotion]

Opps.......typo....his mom is by "Sir Ivor"

[hunt_jump]

I no longer own him, but I had a great TB gelding who was a very nice hunter type. He is by Fighting Fit out of a mare by Barrera.
Here is the gelding's pedigree. (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Southern+Spider&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)
And here is a picture of the gelding when I owned him. (http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump/images/simonhits.jpg)

I also had a Northern Dancer granddaughter who was a great jumper type. She was very athletic and turned faster than anything I've ever been on (got me in trouble a few times she turned so fast).

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[Faded Dreams]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Beanie+Bop&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

* T I F F *

[inmotion]

Very cute horse Hunt-jump and a good pedigree. He looks like he was fun...how was the brain?

Jumper Bean, what do you do with your kid?

I know a lot Mr Prospector babies are out in the hunters too. The ones I know personally are wonderful once they've overcome the challenging brain thing.

[Simkie]

My two girls are Blush (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=BLUSHING%20MAIDEN&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n&pedloggedin=0) and Ya-ya (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Yodar&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

Notable names? Smarten, Tom Rolfe, Stage Door Johnny, Blushing Groom, Sadlers Wells, Clandestina, and Alydar. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[SunshineGA]

My mare's (now deceased http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif) grandsire was Sir Ivor! She also had Bold Ruler 4 gen back (yeah I know... far http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif), Somethingroyal, Northern Dancer

Had 2 geldings who's sire was Mr. Prospector

Had one horse from a sale who's name turned out to be Unbridled Express... guess who his daddy was! (And he was gorgeous to say the least) Unfortunately he broke down so bad he was euthanized the week we got him (he just laid down all the time and walked on 3 legs when he did walk... was just cut before the auction... was drugged enough to gimp on three legs... he was VERY sick)

Mr. Prospector's offspring make good hunters http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

[hunt_jump]

Yes, I loved him and really miss him. He was very quite in general, but had some quirks about getting to the rings and he tended to get a bit up tight and stressed. He just wasn't real brave outside the ring. Once he was in the ring and working though he was very good and not easily flustered. He has a nice show record for the little we did when I had him(ribbons at WEF and HITS Ocala including a hack win at HITS). Surprisingly he never got hot even as he gained weight and got into shape (he was Very thin when I got him). I am really interested in his breeding. I didn't realize how nice (at least in my opinion) his breeding was until recently. Apparently some of the Fighting Fits are now showing up as sport horses and I see a bit of Full Pocket in the sport horses as well as the Crozier. I would be interested to see if anyone knows anything about the Barrera line as I know nothing about that part of his breeding.

BTW, what is the American Idol's registered name? I love the pictures that I have seen of that horse.

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[Faded Dreams]

inmotion
i havent gotten him yet but i plan do do some dressage shows and mini events along with some hunter/jumper shows...we are still at the 'lets make an offer' stage. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

* T I F F *

[SunshineGA]

hunt-jump: he is VERY handsome, love those knees!

Full Pocket is in a lot of hunters! My sister has a full pocket broodmare that has turned out some brilliant hunter babies!

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=betcha+sweet+blues&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n <--- that's my mare's pedigree

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

[vxf111]

I just love Private Account. I can't say enough about this stallion. Every get of his I've seen looks JUST like him and is nice, nice, NICE! He seems to up the ante on anything the mare brings to the table.

I also like Buckpasser for hunters. And any Alydar is worth checking out too http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~Veronica

"The Son Dee Times"
"Sustained"

[inmotion]

Simke, I know alot of those horses. Stage Door Johnny has a few nice ones that I've seen.

Unbridled had a local filly that was amazing to look but, what a nut. She did herself before she was 4.

I had a Dancers Melody geld, and the funny thing about him was that you couldn't clip him without elephant tranqulizer, and otherss told me the same thing about DM babies they knew.

Isn't it funny how they are?

I love Sir Ivor too. He must of been amazing.

Heaintnosaint was American Idols name. He has a full sister foaled in 98 that I'm looking for named Jovites Halo. If anyone sees her, let me know. Or any ST Jovite babies.

Mary

[hunt_jump]

I really like this thread.

Does anyone know anything about the TV Commercial line?

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[inmotion]

Is TV Commercial a horse? Please fill me in. Big Smile....I love to read about this stuff!

[hunt_jump]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by inmotion:
Is TV Commercial a horse? Please fill me in. Big Smile....I love to read about this stuff!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but I don't know anything about him. He has shown up in about 3rd or 4th generation (he was a 1965 Stallion) in a couple of horses that I have seen in sale ads. These are not proven sport horses though, so I'm wondering if anyone is finding this line in sport horses.

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[SunshineGA]

Inmotion- our Unbridled gelding (Really a colt since he was obviously cut jsut before the sale) was a nut. When he would stand up and walk on his three legs he was bonkers. But man he was gorgeous... blood bay 3 white socks (tall white socks) and a perfect blaze, and he was about 16.2 or 16.3. But he kinda had that look in his eyes, you know?

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

[SunshineGA]

Not the good look either! Sorry! Not the nice, soft, please hlep me, Im kinda nervous look... It was the I'm not really all here, don't touch me, don't tell me where to go, I don't care how many legs I have, Im about to come out of my skin type look.

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

[inmotion]

You pegged that mare to a tee Sunshine, she was loco. So beautiful, tall, elegant, deep bay with lotsa chrome.....but the brain was fried from birth. She ended up crippling herself in her stall as a 3 or 4 yr old. She had that eye thing too...not the good eye thing. The owners bred her dam back to Unbridled but I've never seen or heard anything except it is a colt and I should of seen or heard something by now.

I love the name TV Commercial, but have never seen him anywhere. Looks like a job for Del Mar! I love that site!

[SunshineGA]

Yep! Must be an Unbridled thing! So what have we learned? BE careful about Unbridled lines (which is probably why we don't see any on the hunter circuit)

I've also heard the Prospector babies have lameness issues, anyone experience this? The one gelding had ankle problems (and some brain problems... lazy as all get out and wouldnt jump at all) and the other gelding had a fractured shoulder when I got him to begin with so ended up with problems anyway.

Sir Ivor progeny are great!

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

[War Admiral]

avery is by true level, an unraced son of tom rolfe, and out of an unraced granddaughter of bernborough. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

______________

sorry about lack of caps. i'm typing one-handed. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[LMH]

OK help me out here...using a pedigree site...how would I find say...youngsters with Sir Ivor bloddlines?

[inmotion]

Go to the Del Mar pedigree site and scroll to the bottom of the page....there will be a get 5 gen pedigree free thing. Type in Sir Ivor, or who ever you want. When the page comes up the first thingy at the top of the page..I think it's managemnet or somethingy...when you click on go to progeny..they also have pictures you can go to. Can you tell I'm a true computer idiot? Mary

[Cherry]

A friend of mine had a grey gelding that was out of a Full Pocket mare; he had come straight off the race track at ten with clean legs... He was such a handsome guy--I would like to have bought him from her but didn't have the money when she was ready to sell him... She never did anything with him but I believe he could have been an awesome hunter... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Hunt_jump, looking at your old horse's pedigree--he has Native Dancer in the maternal line who was known to sire a lot of sport horses... I see Helioscope who was by Heliopsis which shows up in a lot of hunter/jumper pedigrees and My Babu who was the grandsire of Bruce Davidson's great J.J. Babu (My Babu goes back to Tourbillon and I think that's actually where the horses get their talent)... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Lastly you have Princequillo who is known to have sired a lot of sport horses as well...

Djebel, who is in your horse's pedigree on his sire's side, also goes back to Tourbillon... Also present is the influence of Man O'War through Full Pocket... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Everything looks good until you start to examine it!!!", uttered by me on more than one occasion

[lame joe]

We had a Sir Ivor son in the barn for a while - Laura Chapot had ridden him in the jumpers. His name (cleverly enough) was Iverson. Grey horse - really great jumper.

My one newby, Mydogdreamer is a Pleasant Colony grandkid. The other, Expound has Forty Niner on top and Excellor on the bottom. The first is a hunter type and the second is very jumper-y looking/moving.

[Juno]

My mare's by Deerhound (Danzig x Lassie Dear by Buckpasser) out of a Wolfpower (S.African stallion) mare. She has Buckpasser twice, once on top and once on bottom. In fact, she has only 7 instead of the usual 8 great-grandparents http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Might explain why she's a little fruity!

What the HECK happened to global warming?!

[LMH]

OK I get the progeny part-but for Sir Ivor, for example, his 1st generation offspring are much older-so would I have to click on EACH one to find the grandkids, great gandkids etc http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Now that would be a job.

[inmotion]

I remember Iverson Liz! Wow.....little Ravey is linked to that great horse...this thread is way cooler than I thought it would be! Maybe that's why he likes to jump so much. We've got him up to 3'9 at home and that hasn't backed him off. Not that he needs to back off, we just keep thinkin one day he'll say...What??? You want me to what??? My sweet boy has never refused or run or pulled to or away from a fence. When you ride it feels like..is he gonna do this???? then he just does it and goes to the next....hunter quiet like. No hand...just to set up and guide and leg over the fence. That's how he rides. I quess I'm just used to a horse that pulls alittle. I know I have a working hunter here.

Wow, I'm really tickled! Mary

[lame joe]

He sounds so cool! Iverson was a hot tamale - not quiet like your guy.

[caryledee]

I'll play! I got my first gelding before I knew anything about TB bloodlines. When I started doing research, I found out he was by the stallion Best Turn, who stood at Calumet until his death in 1984. Best Turn was huge--17.2 hands--and although he sired a few decent racehorses, he was never a huge success. It turns out though that most of his offspring can jump the moon though; several went to the grand prix level and several other descendants were successful top hunters. Its too bad more wasn't done to perpetuate this line though; its hard to find a horse with Best Turn in the pedigree.
As far as temperament, my gelding doesn't have a mean bone in his body, but he's not a horse you can make a lot of mistakes on; he's just too sensitive to handle it. He is very careful over jumps and usually overjumped everything by a foot or two. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
He's now almost 20 yrs old and pretty much retired, but still very sound and healthy.

[Kiwayu]

Here's my horse's Pedigree....Kiwayu (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Kiwayu&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

He's got some good names in there.
Nureyev,Northern Dancer, Tell, Nearctic, Native Dancer, Polynesian, Pharos, and the list goes on.

[inmotion]

I've heard of Danzig and Best Turn. It was a while ago, before I really started paying attention to bloodlines.

I've watched Iverson, he was great. Whats he doing now? Aren't all jumpers half nuts? I'm laughing as I wrote that.......it was ment to make you smile.

Mary

[Lord Helpus]

Four out of five of mine are tail male line to Northern Dancer. And all of them have strong grass influences on the bottom. Many also have grass on the top through the female family.

It has been my experience that dirt sprinters will rarely show up in jumping pedigrees, and if they do, just look a generation or two back and you will find heavy doses of grass showing up.

Not coincidentally, many good steeplechase horses are either from straight grass breeding or grass plus Northern Dancer. Of course if you go much farther back than ND, everything is grass... So I am making pretty safe generalizations. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Both Stevie and George have Darby Creek Road on the bottom and ND on top: George through Dixieland Band, Chimes Band. Stevie is a grandson of Danzig who is almost a 100% grass sire. Bear is ND --&gt; The Minstrel --&gt; Palace Music. And Mikey is ND --&gt; Lines of Power --&gt; Loach

Poor Warren is by the incomparable Wop Wop (but, then again who would WANT to be compared to Wop Wop?) At least his breeding is all grass, also, even though it is hardly the big names you are used to hearing.

For those people who have had Unbridled's -- don't forget he is by Fappiano who was the sire of Don Stewart's wonderful horse Western Prospect.

[SillyFilly]

Haven't read the whole topic - but Simkie, your girls have amazing peds! WOW!

Amy
MOOP Clique! OPH Clique! GUBR Clique!
Disgruntled College Student Clique!

[soundfx]

my horse is also out of the native dancer lines...his father was cresting waters and his mom was leader miss..he ran as red leader

"go ahead, dream a little dream" jay privman.

[hunt_jump]

Ok, Lord Helpus, now I'm going to have to go research Fappiano and Western Prospect. Western Prospect is still one of my all time favorite hunters. I was watching him hack around one of the rings in Tampa years ago on his day off he just floats - absolutely amazing.

Tell me more about grass horses. Who do I look for in pedigree for grass vs. dirt? This is all very interesting to me.

Is this the same Western Prospect? (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Western+Prospect&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[SunshineGA]

my mare has dr. fager in her toohttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and nasrullah http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (I just like how Dr. Fager sounds... don't kknow who he is!)

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

[War Admiral]

caryledee - best turn is by turn-to, who is legendary as an eventing sire. that's where you're getting the height from in all likehood - my turn-to great-grandson (top line)/grandson (tail line) is also 17.2. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

______________

sorry about lack of caps. i'm typing one-handed. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[Pirateer]

Stewie is by Alissando, and out of a mare named Archer's Susan.

Alissando's BL's (http://www.pedigreequery.com/tmp/9320.922182759809406.php)

Rebecca and SNL (Stewie)
http://www.bluffparkfarm.com
http://community.webshots.com/user/pirateer

[sprite]

Sprite has a lot of Native Dancer blood- by a stallion named Mill Native who won the Arlington Million (over what looked like a sort of lackluster field) out of a mare who was sired by The Minstrel and out of Canadian champion La Voyageuse. Apparently before his death Mill Native was siring hunters up in Canada but I've never seen any otheres, though I do have a picture of him somewhere.

She is on the small side (15.2 and fairly petite), gray, and while not the best mover, does pretty good dressage and is a jumping bean- not to mention being an absolute saint http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

My old gelding was a Buckpasser grandson out of a nondescript mare, he raced for 3 years. Kind of nutty mentally, hated dressage, but he was cute as all get out and man could he JUMP! Great with his knees, nice bascule- finally sold him for a girl to do H/J so he wouldn't have to do dressage anymore, LOL.

****Da doo doo doo
Da dah dah dah
Thats all I want to say to you.****

[Kerby]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Nifty+Needles&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

this is the pedigree of a horse I used to ride (Kerby.. where my name came from) But I don't know TB lines, so are these good? lol.

This reminds me of the game "Six degrees of Kevin Bacon" but we can change it to "Six degrees of Bold Ruler or Northern Dancer etc" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[DMK]

Sunshine - Dr. Fager was all the hoss. He was champion sprint, handicap and turf horse in '68 (wins short, wins long, wins on grass). Given that he swept pretty much all the categories, they decided to make him horse of the year as well. To this day that is a feat no other horse has accomplished. His namesake was a neurosurgeon who pretty much saved John Nerud's life, a thing which all FL racing fans are very grateful for, as John Nerud was the genius behind Tartan Farms. Tartan is the Calumet of FL - Minnesota Mac, Ta Wee, Great Above, Codex, Muttering, Ogygian, Jeblar, Quiet American and of course, Unbridled).

I bred a filly who was a granddaughter of Olden Times, but she was QH on the bottom. My old hunter was by Silent Cal (Hold Your Peace) on the top and some distant Bold Ruler on the bottom. Let's just say he outran his pedigree.

Robbie is otherwise known as Welcome Back (Erin's Isle X Royal Angelique X Diplomat Way). Let's just say he did not outrun his pedigree. But I became a big fan of Diplomat Ways after a little research. They tend to win at the very highest levels in hunters and on the line.

Rivers, aka Upper Diplomat is by some grandson of Mr. Prospector who should never have been bred to anything and is now spreading his genes somewhere in South America. South America will not be any better for it I am sure. His dam is more interesting. She is by Upper Case (Round Table) out of a Diplomat Way mare. A friend of mine who has had more than a little success in the TB breeding game looked at her pedigree/breeding history and pronounced that this is what happens when "bad stallions happen to good mares." Probably true as she was a good producer until they bred her to the magnificant flop called Barrera (I couldn't blame them - the farm I worked at sent our two best mares to him to the tune of $50K each back in the early 80's - everyone was suckered). Then she was sold and bred to stallions that were neither particularly good, nor a good nick for her. Oh well, I ended up with a 17'2 hand dufus out of the deal, so I can't complain!

As for Mr. Prospectors having lameness problems, it's tough to generalize as he shows up in the vast majority of pedigrees, and after you are talking a 3 generations back, it's hard to say if the lameness was due to that rather diluted influence, or some of the other horses splitting up the pedigree. And we haven't even touched on enviromental causes. But Mr. Prospector did turn out at the shoulder/knee (one or both, I forget), and did have a habit of passing that on to some of his immediate offspring.

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[The Muffin Man]

My one guy has Alydar as his grandfather! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[hunt_jump]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
Robbie is otherwise known as Welcome Back (Erin's Isle X Royal Angelique X Diplomat Way). Let's just say he did not outrun his pedigree. But I became a big fan of Diplomat Ways after a little research. They tend to win at the very highest levels in hunters and on the line. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you know if Erin's Isle has produced any other hunter/sport horses? The anglo-Trakehner Stallion I used to own was out of a Erin's Isle mare. I never had the pleasure of meeting the mare, but I have heard that she was very nice. She was ATA approved and produced four full siblings that I know of. All by the same Trakehner stallion and very talented horses.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
Rivers, aka Upper Diplomat is by some grandson of Mr. Prospector who should never have been bred to anything and is now spreading his genes somewhere in South America. South America will not be any better for it I am sure. His dam is more interesting. She is by Upper Case (Round Table) out of a Diplomat Way mare. A friend of mine who has had more than a little success in the TB breeding game looked at her pedigree/breeding history and pronounced that this is what happens when "bad stallions happen to good mares." Probably true as she was a good producer until they bred her to the magnificant flop called Barrera (I couldn't blame them - the farm I worked at sent our two best mares to him to the tune of $50K each back in the early 80's - everyone was suckered). Then she was sold and bred to stallions that were neither particularly good, nor a good nick for her. Oh well, I ended up with a 17'2 hand dufus out of the deal, so I can't complain!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you know much about Barrera? He is the damsire of the gelding I posted back on pg 1 of this thread and I have tried finding information on him with no luck.

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[CdnRider]

Ok mine (although he's unregistered) is: Brady (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Brady&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

What is there in his that's good?? I don't recognize a lot from other posted pedigrees.

[Sing Mia Song]

I have seen quite a few good movers by Private Terms--kind of interesting, because he was NOT a good mover. But I have a Valley Crossing filly (who is by PT who is an amazing over).

Along the Fappiano lines, Press Card (out of that wonderful maere, Courtly Dee) tends to get nice movers. They tend to be compact, blood bays with chrome. They are a bit mischievous, however. There are a couple now racing over jumps here in the Mid-Atlantic.

One of my favorite hunter sires in Compelling Sound. He's been standing for the last 4-5 years in California and is now in Washington, so you guys in that area should look up his babies. But I have dibs on anything still in the Mid-Atlantic area, so hands off! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif Ditto for anything by Rock Point!

***********************************************
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
-Mark Twain

[Lord Helpus]

Hunt Jump, I would guess that is THE Western Prospect.

Interesting that he was inbred to Dr. Fager 2 x 3. A very unusual inbreeding. I had never seen his whole pedigree. But the name, sire and year of birth are all appropriate, so it is probably him.

I am still surprised that the breeder woud use such inbreeding. Perhaps we should ALL be looking for horses who are inbred to Dr. Fager...

[This message was edited by Lord Helpus on Dec. 06, 2003 at 09:05 PM.]

[MCJumper]

My mare is a great grandaughter of Seattle Slew. She has some of the tightest knees I have ever seen and can jump the moon. She is a beautiful hunter-although a little hot http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Maria
Never Knew & Hollywood Exclusive

http://community.webshots.com/user/mcjumper

[TwoDreamRides]

My horse is 3/4 TB, 1/4 Belgian..although the Thoroughbred portion on his dam's side is unknown, his sire is Joint Verdict, who's bloodlines are URL=http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=joint+verdict&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n]here[/URL] and who can be seen here (http://www.reach.net/~brier/cedarcroft/verdict.htm).

[doublete]

I have two geldings that are grandson's of Alydar..
One is 4 and can be a bit hot, but for the most part is so athletic he doesn't know what to do with himself. His dam goes back to Nijinsky. This horse easily does 3'6", has a lot more in him, and is a great mover.
My other one's dam goes back to Wild Again and Turn to... This one is ATHLETIC, but man is he a nut. Great mover, eventer all the way.
A sweet, albeit little mare (15.2 1/2) that I have is bred to Alydar on the top side, and the dam is Compliance (Northern Dancer- Buckpasser) and Apalachee. She's a good mover, but mostly very quiet.
My quietest, smartest, most athletic, etc is double bred Northern Dancer, but he was bred in Ireland (for the turf) so I don't expect many of his siblings to be over here.

And my future eventer is Mr. Prospector, Dr. Fager, Native Dancer 5X5, and Turn-to 4X5.

Oh, my coming 2 y/o who has many siblings that didn't do so hot on the track, but all went on to stellar hunter careers... His dam is by Mac Diarmida (a grass runner) who does go back to Tom Fool, and out of an Iron Ruler-&gt;Never Bend-&gt; Nasrullah mare. My particular baby moves exactly like a hunter should, and is very well built. He shoudl also end up being at least 16.2.

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.
http://www.geocities.com/doubletefarm

[hunt_jump]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
Hunt Jump, I would guess that is THE Western Prospect.

Interesting that he was inbred to Dr. Fager 2 x 3. A very unusual inbreeding. I had never seen his while pedigree. But the name, sire and yer of birth are all appropriate, so it is probably him.

I am still surprised that the breeder woud use such in breeding. Perhaps we should ALL be looking for horses who are inbred to Dr. Fager...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if that is the same Western Prospect, he has a full sister. I would love to know if she is a wonderful moving hunter type too and if this cross really worked that well (or poorly depending on your viewpoint hunter vs. racing). I am a novice at this TB bloodline thing, but that looked like an unusual breeding to me.

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[inmotion]

Well in my zeal and by the way, having way too much fun, I was searching for Sir Ivor colts standing. Not only did I find some very cute ones...but the babys are listed for sale. From 1 to 3 yr olds all under 2500. All big and very cute. Now to find the ones coming off the track and appraising them. This is very fun and I'm amazed at the info out in internet world. Whew. I love seeing everyones interest in this, I was starting to think I was out of my mind. Searching, collecting, watching.
Now to look for Fappiano colt with an inbreed to Dr. Fager. Wouldn't that be way cool! I'm just so amazed at whats out there.

Mary

[Nickelodian]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunt_jump:
Does anyone know anything about the TV Commercial line?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Know nothing about TV Commercial, but my mare had T.V. Debate in her lines, excellent mover and jumper.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=BUOYANT5&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n&pedloggedin=0

And a picture:

http://www.blueyonderfarm.com/files/SierraOF.jpg



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by doublete:

Oh, my coming 2 y/o who has many siblings that didn't do so hot on the track, but all went on to stellar hunter careers... His dam is by Mac Diarmida (a grass runner) who does go back to Tom Fool, and out of an Iron Ruler-&gt;Never Bend-&gt; Nasrullah mare. My particular baby moves exactly like a hunter should, and is very well built. He shoudl also end up being at least 16.2.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never Bend seems to have a huge influence in the Hunter lines, above mare is 3 generations removed from Never Bend on her Sire's side, but there is a stallion here in texas who is "Never Bend Better"

http://www.chencofarm.com/nbb.htm

I've currently got a Seattle Slew grand son, by Seattle Battle who has thrown some amazing Sport Horses.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=BATTLE%20MAGIC2&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n&pedloggedin=0

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.scatteredoaksfarm.com (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com)

[hunt_jump]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickelodian:

Know nothing about TV Commercial, but my mare had T.V. Debate in her lines, excellent mover and jumper.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=BUOYANT5&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n&pedloggedin=0

And a picture:

http://www.blueyonderfarm.com/files/SierraOF.jpg

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We are getting closer to the T.V. Commercial lines that I was wondering about. T.V. Commercial was by T.V. Lark who is in your mares pedigree. I'm still not sure what if it means if anything.

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[DMK]

hunt_jump - yea, Erin's Isle was the sire of Rowdy Irishman, a rather notable steeplechaser who won the Breeder's Cup among other things, so I would say yes, he had some influence!

But he is back in Ireland now (been quite a few years), and I understand from Weatherford that he is much more suited for that market. If you look at his pedigree and where he raced, you wouldn't expect his offspring to get their motors going until the first 6-7 furlongs were history!

I can't remember too much about Barrera, other than he was named after Laz Barrera (trainer who handled Affirmed) and I think he was a chunky red colt. I seem to recall there was a lot of buzz around him when he went to stud, but I was in FL, and he was owned by serious FL connections (the Wolfsons), so it might have been just a FL thing (he did stand at a big farm in KY at first though). At any rate, if I am recalling the $50K stud fee correctly, that was a chunk of change in the early 80's. But he fell off the map pretty fast, stud fee wise.

I handled at least 3 or 4 of his offspring that I know of, and at least 2 of them were the neckless wonders (I attribute it to the sire since the mares didn't generally produce offspring with short necks). And one of his colts was the terror of the farm. When 75-125 youngsters mill through a training farm every year, you only tend to remember the ones that go on to win big races or are totally incorrigible. Two guesses which one he was...

But I will say that I ran across that colt almost 2 years later and he was a complete dream to ride (and he had a neck). I often wished I had been smart enough to snatch him up. It took me quite a while to make the connection as he was "Barerra colt" when he was being broke at the farm, and Barawell when I met him later at a different layup farm (the owner got him for owed board and was making a half hearted attempt to try and get him to the races). In a million years I never would have guessed that that little chunky shit who would just as soon as flip over on you as go forward was this nice well mannered big boned gelding. Just goes to show that time (and gelding) cures a lot of ills!

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[DMK]

TV Lark was the grandsire (through Quack) of Cause for Applause, who was a nice hunter sire in the southeast.

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[Freebird!]

Ben, my first horse, never ran on the track - good thing too, he was a nutcase, LOL.
Joe Also (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Joe+Also&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

Irish, a filly I have bred and raised - currently green broke. She is by the same stud as Simkie's Yodar :-)
Delightfully Irish (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Delightfully+Irish&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

My second Hunter - couldn't outrun his shadow at teh track, but is an awsome hunter/jumper
Feeling His Oats (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Feeling+His+Oats&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

My New Zealand TB (X Event and Steeplechaser)
Cautious Val (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Cautious+Val&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

M/R Ducks.
M/R Not.
O/S/A/R!
C/M WINGS?
L/I/B,
M/R Ducks!!

[Silly Mommy]

I was tooling around, and entered the Yak. When I looked at pics, a couple jumped out at me.

First of all, the picture they use of Man O' War is horrible - he had to be ancient!

On the dam side, I now know where she gets her loooonnnggness from (TG Mandarin shortened him up) - she's got "In Reality" on top 3 back - icky picture of him too, but OMG, the picture of "Relaunch" (by In Reality) really jumps out at you! Bold ruler looks fat and happy in his too.

Mandarin has alot of nothing until you get back 4 gens - I really liked the picture of Blenheim2. What's with the white spot on the side of Nimbus???

I gotta go look up some more!!!

PS- what if a horse isn't there on Del Mar, but you know it exists, and have a brisnet pedigree???

Most people who go around fanning the flames of crises are themselves the problem.


http://groups.msn.com/WolfdenFarm/shoebox.msnw

[Tha Ridge]

I have one that can jump the moon. Check him out on the Pedigree Query under Captain Bligh (1996).

Sired by Green Desert (Danzig x Foreign Courier, by Sir Ivor), and he's out of Hyabella (Shirley Heights (GB) (Mill Reef) x Bella Colora, by Bellypha (IRE).

Apparently, Coolmore (the Magnier's and Tabor's) were expecting him to be quite the racehorse. He was too unmanageable as a stallion so he was sold. His first start wasn't bad - a 4th at Newmarket AND he bit the jockey after the race! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

- L.

Je suis un salamander. J'entrerai dans le feu mais je ne brûlerai pas.

[Lord Helpus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
But Mr. Prospector did turn out at the shoulder/knee (one or both, I forget), and did have a habit of passing that on to some of his immediate offspring. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm, its the knees. I can vouch for that since I did not look at our Mr. Prospector filly closely from the front before bidding on her. (Well, after all it was raining...)

Only after we got her, did our bloodstock agent take a look at her and he *casually* asked me if I had noticed that she had had surgery on both her knees to straighten them.....

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I said. I guess I didn't notice. It was rainng, you know......

He was so mad at me that he didn't talk to me for 3 days...

So I will never forget WHERE Mr. P turned out...

Incidently, no one has mentioned the current stallions who are siring top jumping horses:

Caro
Red Ransom
Spectacular Bid


And there were a lot of Sham's in the sport horse world. It came from his daddy, Pretense who sired GREAT jumpers.

[fourmares]

My first hunter was by Bally Forge... nice enough horse, nothing special.

I rode a really nice gelding by Goshin out of a mare by Nos Best. Quite and fancy enough for the hunters, even did the regulars, and talented enough for the A/O jumpers... somewhat opinionated, but reasonably generous.

My evil TB had Najinski lines... Amazingly talented, could jump anything... could also buck me off with one buck, and knew it. I almost quit riding because of that horse. Even though he hated me he loved beginners and has been a pony club horse since I sold him, go figure...

I have two geldings on the property now by Danabo who is by Bold Forbes... one is one of the best minded horses I have sat on, but can't jump his way out of a paper bag... the other is pretty nice, will jump you right out of the tack over a three foot oxe but lazy and bad tempered (he's a chestnut with alot of white)

I own a pretty little gelding by Practicle Joke who is by Comic... great little horse, a real tryer, could have been a top show hunter if he hadn't been locked in a box stall for five and a half years... he was jumping the 5ft pasture fences and they didn't want to geld him, but had a major family crisis and just left him in the stall until they gave him away... sad.

I had an anglo arab mare that was a granddaughter of the horse Steve Cauthin rode in the Derby in the late 70's... can't remember his name just now... the mare's sire was Certain Treat. She was a super little horse. Very trainable, easy and fun to ride... but to small for hunters... sold her as a pony club horse at 4...

[Albion]

Haven't owned any TBs (a pony person myself!) - but when I galloped at the track, I DID look at everyone from a 'hmm, what could THEY do in the showring' perspective. One of our grooms also worked in the A circuit pony world, so he'd occassionally tell me, 'Man, couldn't you see THAT one at the in-gate at WEF?'

Some of my favorite, hunter-y type horses:

Pointe Milou (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Pointe+Milou&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n) (she just broke her maiden recently) - by Gone West (by Mr. Prospector) out of a Private Account mare. I loffed her. I rode her as a 2 year old, so she was round & roly poly, but she was LOVELY. She galloped around the track like a perfect hunter.

We had 3 babies from Miss Protege (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=MISS+PROTEGE2) - I don't know what it was about this mare's bloodlines, but my god, she threw the most beautiful babies. Miss Casey (by In Case), Mr. Allen (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Mister+Allen&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n) (by Allen's Prospect), and Protege's Lover (by Not For Love). All of them were VERY similar in type. And all looked to be very suited for the show world - of whatever discipline.

And Jeanne Marie F. (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Jeanne+Marie+F.&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n) - to me, she looked like a WB X. She loved a certain kind of cookies that I brought special for her. Very pretty mare.

Finally, we had a very, VERY fancy colt (dark, dark bay with 4 VERY high stockings and a white blaze) named Case In Thought (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Case+In+Thought&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n). Just one of those 'Look at me!' horses. I've liked a LOT of the In Case babies I have seen.

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[Peggy]

Cool, AKA General Putnam (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=General+Putnam&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n), was an athletic, if unwilling, jumper. He ended up showing thru 4th level dressage (http://homepage.smc.edu/kline_peggy/Images/peggy_cool.gif). His sire line contains a number of recognizable names, but I don't recognize much in the dam line until you get a few generations back. I've been told that he looks like a typical Buckpasser.

Star's sire is the famous Jawab (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Jawab&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n) (he's out of a Hann mare who's TB comes from the Pik line). He has a wonderful mind, but I don't know if it's genetic, environment, or luck. He's only jumped a bit, but I would say he's a bit more like an eq horse than a fancy knee-snapping hunter.

(OK, I really do know that trotting ends with a "g" but there seems to be no way to edit an attachment title without deleting/readding it)

[Beethoven]

Here is my baby's:
Noah's pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=JERRYS%20SECRET2&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n&pedloggedin=0)

In short, his name was Jerry's Secret. He was out of Pumkin Dunkin and by Stark Secret who was out of Secretarial Queen who was by Secretrait(sp?).

~Jenna & Beethoven~
http://community.webshots.com/user/jlm179

[War Admiral]

nicely bred horse, beethoven! (actually, having graustark/ribot that close up gives you bigger braggin' rights than secretariat, in terms of tb sport horses. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) you've got turn-to in there, too, in the bottom line... oh yes, nicely bred horse indeed!

______________

sorry about lack of caps. i'm typing one-handed. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[Lord Helpus]

Albion,

If we could get Point Milou as a hunter prospect we are doing pretty well... Gone West stands for over $100,000 and Testy Trestle was a Multiple Stakes Winner in her own right. And you say that she just broke her maiden? I am guessing it was not in a claiming race http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

That filly is worth six figures as a broodmare. She will not see the inside of a show ring in her lifetime. SIGH....

And Beethoven's horse has Cyane close up on the bottom line. He is an especially prepotent son of Turn To as far as jumping horses go.

[Nauset]

I'm gonna take a bite.... Sam's Pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=&h=MARKET+SURVIVAL&g=5&p=0&f=1&l=)

Can anyone tell me anything, or have pictures of, his [late] sire, Market Control ?
TIA

..:*:..:*:..:*:.BAS.:*:..:*:..:*:..
Proud Member of the SHORT & STUBBY LEG CLIQUE!

You know you're a horse person when you look at a picture of your dog and say, "LOOK AT THAT TROT!" :-D

http://community.webshots.com/user/samtb056

[Albion]

Lord Helpus -

It was a $25K Maiden Special Weight on the turf at Laurel. She raced again at the very end of November at Aqueduct in a $48K Allowance, but didn't finish in the money.

Funnily enough, as a baby, she had NO INTEREST in running. None! One of the guys I galloped with used to kick on his horses & leave me in the dust (irritating AND dangerous!). Most of the babies would flip out ... not Pointe Milou. 'La-di-da-di-da' pretty much sums up her attitude - as a novice exercise rider, I REALLY appreciated her laid back attitude. She just poked her nose out and checked out the scenery. Good baby! The only time she ever got snarky was when she injured her leg slightly in the paddock & was on stall rest for 2 weeks. She went up with me in the shedrow the first time I got on her after that.

I knew that Gone West stood for $$$$, even in the race horse world - but man, I would LOVE to be able to get my hands on Pointe Milou! Like I said in another post, I have a feeling this one WON'T end up on CANTER!

Edited to add: They tried to sell her up as a yearling - I don't know how to read auction results, but here is her little hip number entry: 228,POINTE MILOU,f,Yrlg,by Gone West,Testy Trestle,by Private Account.,(Eaton Sales...agent),($95000),,RNA. Is the $95000 the opening bid, or what it ended on?

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[This message was edited by Albion on Dec. 07, 2003 at 09:58 AM.]

[geckoUBC]

I don't know much about TB bloodlines, other than being vaguely familiar with a lot of the common big names, but would love to learn more.. I'd be really curious to know what you think of these bloodlines. This is a mare I rode a couple years ago who is by Broad Brush, who from what I know is pretty darn nice. I checked out his website and his stud fee is $100,000. Is it likely that his stud fee would have been lower when this mare was bred (1991)? Would hate to be the breeder who threw away $100k on this girl! (Not that she wasn't a nice horse.. just not that kind of money nice! And unfortunately she wasn't able to be bred.)

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=INTUITION2&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n&pedloggedin=0

[DMK]

Lord Helpus - I can understand why the Prospector issue is so firmly ingrained in your memory! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Silly Mommy - In Reality really wasn't much of a looker - he was a small, tough horse with a ton of heart (he played the role of Alydar to Dr. Fager's Affirmed throughout a good part of his racing career), but check out a picture of his dam, My Dear Girl, and it is crystal clear where Relaunch got his looks.

Aleesha - in '94 his stud fee was $12.5K, it was probably close to that in '91.

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[ejm]

Someone had a question about T.V. Commercial. He was a foal of 1965, and yes, he was by T.V. Lark. He won a bunch of stakes and over $400,000 and placed in the Ky. Derby, and was a reasonably successful regional stallion who stood at Windfields Farm in Maryland.

He was a medium-sized chestnut, compact, very sound, with extremely correct front legs and a great temperament. I spent some time around him as an older stallion and he was just a very nice horse in every way.

Lord Helpus, regarding horses inbred closely to Dr. Fager - Quiet American is 3x2 to Dr. Fager, so we know it worked once!

[Nickelodian]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:

Incidently, no one has mentioned the current stallions who are siring top jumping horses:

Caro
Red Ransom
Spectacular Bid

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We had a Spectacular Bid Granddaughter (Spectacular JR). The mare could jump the moon, and gorgeous, but a complete NUT CASE.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.scatteredoaksfarm.com (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com)

[hunt_jump]

I had thought of Caro. Wasn't Loyal Pal a Caro son? I have been trying to find information on this horse (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=ANNOTATE&g=5&l=). I am interested to see what he looks like. According to his pedigree, he is by the Caro son With Approval and (if we are on the right track with Western Prospect) out of Western Prospect's full sister. I have heard of With Approval, but I know nothing of him as a sport horse sire.

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[War Admiral]

hunt-jump, man, i'd sure like to know what he looks like, too! post a pic if you ever find one!

samtb - don't know much about the canadian scene - maybe someone else could contribute - but market control won one stakes race at least...

______________

sorry about lack of caps. i'm typing one-handed. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[hunt_jump]

Can anyone help me with tips on tracking down TBs, because there is another one that I would like to find some information about. The second one is a two year old, so he may be in race training.

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[DMK]

On one hand, one of her other progeny, Little Lee (Montbrook-Buckaroo) is a '96 and is still running (2nd in a claimer at Churchill Downs in November). That says something about his durability in this day and age. On the other hand, I rechecked the form and his is now missing that vital ingredient to be a sporthorse sire... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Cowboy Code (Mecke X Exploriano) ran through the sales in 2002 for $62K and Withlacoochee (With Approval X Exploriano) was sold for $13K - can't figure out the year on her, but I think she is a '99. She went to Adobe Wells Farm - wonder what happened to her?

Exploriano looks to still be owned by Bryan Howlett & and Henry Roberts. Wonder what farm she is at? Wonder if anyone would notice if she went missing? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[hunt_jump]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
On one hand, one of her other progeny, Little Lee (Montbrook-Buckaroo) is a '96 and is still running (2nd in a claimer at Churchill Downs in November). That says something about his durability in this day and age. On the other hand, I rechecked the form and his is now missing that vital ingredient to be a sporthorse sire... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Cowboy Code (Mecke X Exploriano) ran through the sales in 2002 for $62K and Withlacoochee (With Approval X Exploriano) was sold for $13K - can't figure out the year on her, but I think she is a '99. She went to Adobe Wells Farm - wonder what happened to her?

Exploriano looks to still be owned by Bryan Howlett & and Henry Roberts. Wonder what farm she is at? Wonder if anyone would notice if she went missing? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

_The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. _<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So DMK, did you find any information on the Annotate horse? Also, do we know where Cowboy Code is? That one has me intrigued. Her other Montbrook colt seems to have done well for himself on the track (he is/was a stakes horse).

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[inmotion]

My horse is very heavy SIr Ivor....top and bottom...I Am The Game out of Runabout (Sir Ivor)....Rave,Game,Sir Ivor all look almost like the same horse...and Rave has a brain and hunter talent to die for.
The next horse I want to look at is Gone West, for the hunters.
My horse has Turn To 3x 4th gen....heavy lines. The only other money horse in Raves line is Roundtable.

I am concluding that if we like the look of an OTTB and the bloodlines are there....it's more likely the talent and brain will be there too.

This is a wonderful thread and so many of these stallions have and are producing horses along and outside the race industry. There really should be more of a TB sport regestry, and we need to get these animals into the show ring and support our Thoroughbreds once they come off the track. Not all of them are nut cases, mine you used to have to kick down the lines...now he flows.

Mary

[DMK]

Annotate didn't show up at all, but I was only using a google search (cached pages are your friend). But if he didn't show up at all he probably is a gelding at the very least!

Cowboy Code was bought by Thunderhead Farms. Presumably this is Thunderhead Farms/Bill Peters... aka former owners of Mariah's Storm (dam of Giant's Causeway, sold for 2.6M in foal to Storm Cat). If so I think we can safely say that Cowboy Code landed in high clover. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[hunt_jump]

Yeah, I was kind of at a loss when I couldn't find anything through google.

So much for Cowboy Code then huh?

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[DMK]

A little OT, but I had to post this picture of Sadler's Wells from Ashford's website (Coolmore Ireland). It's not like they couldn't have picked one of his race pics, but I love that they use this picture.

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[Silly Mommy]

Now I am finding out why Mandarin was built the way he was...

The pictures I've found of:

Fair Play
Phalaris
Blenheim2
Sir Galahad3
Selene (even if it is a painting http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)
and of Course Man O' War

I couldn't find the Blue Larkspur pic - DMK??? It's really bugging me.

Ohh,
Roughn Tumble
Bold Ruler

on the dam side...

Now Roz (in foal to AFR, and mother of the little prince) has:

Gainsborough
Princequillo/Prince John (her dam was by Ben Marshall)
Bayardo
Wow, love the pic of Bull Dog!

I'm just sittin here drooling...

Most people who go around fanning the flames of crises are themselves the problem.


http://groups.msn.com/WolfdenFarm/shoebox.msnw

[Simkie]

DMK, Ya-ya TOTALLY has that look that Sadlers Wells has!!! OMG!

She's his grandbaby, but I'm surprised just how HER that photo of him is!

[Silly Mommy]

OK, I'm not as much a dummy as I thought. Found one!

Most people who go around fanning the flames of crises are themselves the problem.


http://groups.msn.com/WolfdenFarm/shoebox.msnw

[Beethoven]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by War Admiral:
nicely bred horse, beethoven! (actually, having graustark/ribot that close up gives you bigger braggin' rights than secretariat, in terms of tb sport horses. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) you've got turn-to in there, too, in the bottom line... oh yes, nicely bred horse indeed!

______________

sorry about lack of caps. i'm typing one-handed. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks! I really don't know much about TB pedigree except for what I hear, but I am still learning!! Thanks for letting me know that!

~Jenna & Beethoven~
http://community.webshots.com/user/jlm179

[Beethoven]

Oh yea, this is my other OTTB. He was physco tho! Too bad because he was a 10+ mover and a pretty good jumper!

Jimbeau's Pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=harper+jim&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

~Jenna & Beethoven~
http://community.webshots.com/user/jlm179

[Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl]

Nickleodian -
How interesting! I just bought a mare, Bella Tonya, whose damsire is TV Commercial, and who is a similar dark bay with room to spare over the jumps. Have got to fix my scanner so I can post pictures!

Bought her as something to hunt over the winter, but the more I ride her, the more folks say she's a keeper, and I agree!!

[Emstah]

This (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=VERSIFY2&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n&pedloggedin=0) is my 4yr sire's pedigree, and this (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=SECLUSIVE&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n&pedloggedin=0) is his dam's sire's pedigree.

"One needs an end to journey toward, but it's the journey that matters in the end."

[JER]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Incidently, no one has mentioned the current stallions who are siring top jumping horses:

Caro
Red Ransom
Spectacular Bid
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Red Ransom went to England over the summer because sons and grandsons of Roberto are now all the rage due to some big successes on the track.

Roberto is a grandson of Turn-to, mentioned earlier in this thread, and the Roberto line is an excellent line for sporthorses as well as racehorses. Top US steeplechaser McDynamo is by the Roberto son Dynaformer. There were a couple of Roberto grandsons in this years Rolex CCI****.

A note about mare power: the outstanding TB jump sires Turn-to, My Babu and Ambiorix (who also had a lifetime WB number), all have in common the French-bred mare Lavendula -- Ambiorix is out of Lavendula; Turn-to and My Babu are out of Lavendula daughters.

As for Spectacular Bid, there's a thread in the breeding forum about his gorgeous son Mytens (http://members.lycos.nl/mschalke/mytens1.html). Mytens is standing as a sporthorse sire in Europe.

[inmotion]

Ok I'm going to start a short list of hunter jumper TB stallions. I'll start with the obvious..just because he's in mine.

Sir Ivor......Sir Gaylord

Turn To

Fappiano

Dr Fagen

St Jovite....because of heaintnosaint

Spectactular Bid.....wow Mytens is beautiful! ..too bad he's not standing here

Please add to this including the new stallions!

Mary

[Nikki^]

My fillys' mother's Pedigree. Her father is a Hanoverian.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=rajas+litte+goldie&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

Heart of Gold (http://www.geocities.com/area51/crater/5267/HeartofGold.html)

Look up your TB's bloodlines (http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/)

[inmotion]

Good call about the mare Lavendula.

My boy has Turn To 3x's and Ambiorix once. She's heavy influence on my boy too.

I don't know how to put up the pedigree...and Ravey didn't run well and I had to look individually up I Am The Game and Runabout. If someone could post them for me I'd apprieciate it.

Roundtable is also on alot of the perigrees. Does anyone know anything about him? I love looking at the pics..especially the hand drawn/painted ones!

Mary

[K~2]

I have a picture of T.V. Commercial taken from the 1981 Windfields Stallion Brochure

T.V. Commercial (http://www.tbconnect.net/TV%20Commercial.jpg)

and his sire T.V. Lark (http://www.tbconnect.net/TV%20Lark.jpg)

[FlowerPower]

My current OTTB is Quin, race name Aye A Copper Penny(see her pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Aye+a+copper+penny&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n))

I rescued another TB out of a field where he was starving to death, and after research found that he was A Plus (pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=A+Plus&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)) grandson of Tom Fool and an excellent Dressage master!

******************************
~Chestnut Mare Extraordinaire~

[hunt_jump]

Does anyone remeber what Monday Morning's registered name was or his breeding. I think that he had Turn-To lines.

Also, you might want to consider what today's popular TB sport horse stallions lines are.

Viscount (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=VISCOUNT+JAY&g=5&l=) (who was very successful in the show ring himself) is by Jay Lea out of Shines Delight.

Absolut' (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Lancaster+Avenue&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

A Fine Romance (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=A+Fine+Romance&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

Loyal Pal (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Loyal+Pal&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

anyone want to ad others...

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[sprucie]

Here are the pedigrees for my three girls. First is my new mare, Mean of Queen: http://pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=mean+of+queen&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

The second is Unstated: http://pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=unstated&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n
She is in foal to Top Account: http://pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=top+account&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

The third one is Miss Scarlett: http://pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=MISS%20SCARLETT2&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n&pedloggedin=0

They all seem to be pretty well bred, and I can't wait to see the Top Account/Unstated foal, it should be lovely.

Jodie LaForge
Spruce Hill Farm
http://www.sprucehillfarm.net

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunt_jump:

anyone want to ad others...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Danny Robertshaw's Our Diplomat is a leading sire of hunter breeding horses (Celebration is his best known son) and has sired last year's WIHS Green Conformation champion.

Personally I have known 3 Diplomat Ways, and all were very nice individuals with more than a little talent. One only showed 6 times before he met an unfortunate early demise. Even so, he was 3rd in the nation in the green conformation division.

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[vxf111]

Here is Shane's pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=amazing+account&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n).

I'm no TB expert, but I know what I like and I liked him. In terms of hunters, I liked seeing Buckpasser and Private Account. By Babu for the jumping and a litle Bold Ruler never hurts (but he's in every pedigree, eh?)

And for pure bragging rights and nothing else-- I liked seeing Alydar. I remember seeing his races. He was such a go-getter, never a quitter. And just a cool horse.

And bloodline people want to give me more technical insight?

~Veronica

"The Son Dee Times"
"Sustained"

[Lord Helpus]

For whoever it was who asked a question in the last page about auction results:

When going through the ring, a horse can

be sold without reserve and go to the highest bidder (the seller can bid and buy the horse back if he wishes)

He can sell with reserve. If the reserve is not met, then he goes back to his seller. This is called RNA or Reserve Not Attained.

There are two kinds of reserve: "Live Money" and "All the way"


If you are willing to sell a horsee for $100,000 but not less, then you would put in a reserve at $99,000. If you do it "Live Money", then the bidding will stop whenever there is only one bidder left. If the underbidder drops out at $60,000 and the last live bidder bids $65,000, then the horse will show as [RNA $65,000].

But if you send the same horse through the ring with a reserve of $99,000 "All the Way", then the auction house will keep bidding until it bids one bid less than the reserve. In this example, the last bid (by the auction house) would be $95,000 and the results would show [RNA $95,000].

Since the mare in question showed that as the auction result, I am guessing that her reserve was $99,000 (she would have sold for $100,000), and the last bid of $95,000 made by the auction company. It gives no information about the last actual live bid.

The reason I say this is that MOST bidders have nice round stopping points. So if there had even been one live bidder at $90,000, and the auction house bid $95,000, 9 times out of 10 the live bidder would go to $100,000 and the horse would have been sold.

So, chances are, with this Gone West mare, the live money stopped at least several bids below that.

[Albion]

Lord Helpus, thanks for that explanation!

She really was a lovely filly - we had several nice horses at the barn that could probably (at this point) be picked up for a song, but not that one!

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[OLD A/O]

I agree with Lord Helpus and Silly Mommy plus I would like to add Run Away Groom and Popcorn for my favorite studs.

[jumpsalot]

Well- Lio is registered as Fire Within,shows as Louder THan WOrds. He looks EXACTLY like his daddy & grandpa. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Fire+Within&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

[This message was edited by jumpsalot on Dec. 07, 2003 at 10:02 PM.]

[This message was edited by jumpsalot on Dec. 08, 2003 at 07:11 PM.]

[Silly Mommy]

Wow!!! Blast from the past!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> agree with Lord Helpus and Silly Mommy plus I would like to add Run Away Groom and Popcorn for my favorite studs <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My parents stood Popcorn one of his last seasons (leased from Cornell) - if it's the same one - was back in the early to mid 70's.

That's how I learned about the birds and the bees - mom got out the vet book... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I'm not kidding!!!

Most people who go around fanning the flames of crises are themselves the problem.


http://groups.msn.com/WolfdenFarm/shoebox.msnw

[NancyL]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by doublete:

My quietest, smartest, most athletic, etc is double bred Northern Dancer, but he was bred in Ireland (for the turf) so I don't expect many of his siblings to be over here.

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.
http://www.geocities.com/doubletefarm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mine is from Ireland also head shot of sire (http://www.coolmore.com/stallions/Alzao/index.asp?CountryID=1&Country=Ireland&StallionID=4), conformation shot of sire (http://www.coolmore.com/stallions/Alzao/Conformation.asp?Country=Ireland&CountryID=1&StallionID=4)but I have been able to track a few through DRF Stable News (and a helpful vet that likes my horse and is active in the TB world -- he tells me of one every now and then).

As for TB sporthorse sires, what about Hand In Glove? I don't think he did any breeding for the track but I heard he did fairly well at stud once sold to France. He was a nice looking horse, and we just happen to have a mare by him in the barn now.

[OLD A/O]

Wow Silly Mommy- Popcorn GVBA stallion station. I think it was probably the same one. Boy, if the mare was a looker you could pick a Popcorn baby out in a crowd.

I had a couple of his babies. Beautiful, big and a little high strung. How lucky for you to have him at your home. It would have been a dream come true for me!!!

PS: I like your baby alot- saw your pictures. I think you have a winner in him. Good Luck!!!!

[This message was edited by OLD A/O on Dec. 08, 2003 at 10:51 AM.]

[doublete]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NancyL:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by doublete:

My quietest, smartest, most athletic, etc is double bred Northern Dancer, but he was bred in Ireland (for the turf) so I don't expect many of his siblings to be over here.

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.
http://www.geocities.com/doubletefarm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mine is from Ireland also http://www.coolmore.com/stallions/Alzao/index.asp?CountryID=1&Country=Ireland&StallionID=4, http://www.coolmore.com/stallions/Alzao/Conformation.asp?Country=Ireland&CountryID=1&StallionID=4but I have been able to track a few through DRF Stable News (and a helpful vet that likes my horse and is active in the TB world -- he tells me of one every now and then). &lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;



Mine is by Common Grounds.. Can anyone find a picture of him? I just ran a google search and didnt have any luck...

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.
http://www.geocities.com/doubletefarm

[num1train]

Sweetie (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=HOW%20SWEET3&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n&pedloggedin=0)

Sweetie has Buckpasser, War Admiral, Native Dancer, Bold Ruler and my favorite Silver Buck (my beloved Silver's sire).

I am just glad she is a nice mare.

Don't just appear in life, STAR in it!

[caryledee]

NancyL--Hand In Glove was by Best Turn, who also sired several other good sport horses...including my jumper http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

No one has mentioned What Luck. He is my mare's broodmare sire, and I've heard he's quite popular in the quarter horse world for siring hunters. My mare is big, dark, and has a really nice temperament, which I have also heard he tends to throw.

[dressager]

I have one OTTB right now, got him here in HKG... although the CUTEST gelding just arrived... LOL

Mine is by Petoski (Niniski- Sushilla/Petingo) out of a Hot Spark mare. He has Grey Sovereign, Habitat, Nijinsky, Ribot, Turn To, etc etc (once I get going, you can't stop me).

He was bred in G.B. and raced for 3 seasons here until he was retired. I have been searching high and low for a picture of Petoski, but only managed to find a very
pixel-y race photo.

Dressager (http://www.geocities.com/lubenkafarm)
You don't throw a whole life away just because its a little banged up - Tom Smith

[imapepper]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by caryledee:
NancyL--Hand In Glove was by Best Turn, who also sired several other good sport horses...including my jumper http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

No one has mentioned What Luck. He is my mare's broodmare sire, and I've heard he's quite popular in the quarter horse world for siring hunters. My mare is big, dark, and has a really nice temperament, which I have also heard he tends to throw.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really like What Luck and I am suprised that nobody has mentioned Damascus.

[eclipse]

This is for the guy I used to ride. He's now 23 & still trucking kids around the 3ft hunters (& still winning!!) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I have no idea if these are good lines, but I know he did well on the track for 7 years!


http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Majestic+Mort&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

"errr, ummm, oomph.....brain fart"!!

[Patricia]

I had a flashy old stallion named Chicago Native, by Native Charger(Native Dancer-Heliopolis mare) and out of a Sword Dancer(sire of Damascus) daughter.The head of AWR wanted to have semen shipped for her WB mares years ago, but the old guy had only done live cover, and wanted nothing to do with that collecting business! Such a shame! His half-brother by Never Bend went to Australia and sired True Blue Girdwood, who was on the 1996 Gold-medal Aussie 3-day-event team with Phillip Dutton.
I still have one TB daughter, an APHA reg. daughter and my son has an appx. QH daughter. The old fellow sired horses that were sensitive, but beautiful movers, and a gelding by him o/o a half Trakehner mare I have is showing in dressage now and doing great, but loved to free-jump as a two-yr-old! The old fellow ran until he was six, and had tons of bone! I now have a Stage Door Johnny grandson with War Relic on the dam's side, also big old chestnut with great bone. I don't think either horse sired a lot of successful racers, unless people stuck with them until they got to four or five(one Chicago gelding ran until he was 11!). Both have sired succesful jumpers and hunters. I have five TB broodmares with a variety of bloodlines(Fighting Affair, Admiral Drake,Pretense,Tom Fool,Prince John,Round Table) but the fanciest is a Buckpasser granddaughter with two crosses to the TB sire of Furioso, Precipitation. She's gorgeous at 23, and I just hope we can keep her line going a bit longer... I love researching bloodlines, and sometimes if you take a chance on an individual with a less-than-stellar career, you get a goldmine in the breeding shed!

[Madeline]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juno:
My mare's by Deerhound (Danzig x Lassie Dear by Buckpasser) out of a Wolfpower (S.African stallion) mare. She has Buckpasser twice, once on top and once on bottom. In fact, she has only 7 instead of the usual 8 great-grandparents http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Might explain why she's a little fruity!

What the HECK happened to global warming?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I've got one with only 5 great grandparents. Unusual to see when you recognize most of the names involved!

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Keratoid+Devil&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

madeline

[Madeline]

Looking through the National Steeplechase Association's statistics for 2003, one name stands out: Northern Dancer. Of the top 10 money winning steeplechase horses and the top 10 money winning timber horses , Northern Dancer appears in all but 5. Usually in the first 3 generations.

Other names that appear repeatedly are Roberto, Hail to Reason, Red Ransom and Sir Gaylord. Someone mentioned Tourbillon. He shows up frequently.

But Northern Dancer is EVERYWHERE....

madeline

[inmotion]

I'm impressed with this thread. I'm sorry I haven't posted about some of the pedigrees posted but I've looked at them all, and all of the ones with good jumping horses have only a few horses in common....they are Turn To, Ambiorix...from the mare Lavendula, Ribot, and another not mentioned...Princequlio. From there come alot of horses....Sir Gaylord, Dr Fagen.....ect.
I've been playing with this and all the horses I know, that are good jumpers have these horses in their pedigree.
I know this is not the end all to a good horse, there will always be the freaks that come out of no where wih nothing behind them, but I am impressed that ALL the good horses I know DO have these lines behind them.
No I'm going to start looking into bad form hunter jumpers (that obviously didn't make it into the show rings)I know and see what they have behind them and start compareing.
Thanks for all the input on this thread.
Mary

[Renate]

Here is my boy's pedigree. Though his Jockey Club name is Misko, I call him Kaiser Vagabund.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=misko&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

[wanderlust]

I just yesterday bought a half brother to Real Quiet (Derby and Preakness winner). Goes back to Mr. Prospector through Fappiano on the top. Goes back to Ribot on the dam's side.

This horse is a fantastic mover- may have the best movement I've seen on a full TB.

Here's his pedigree on the sire line(for Real Quiet... they don't have my guy listed, despite being nominated for the 2002 Derby): http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=real+quiet&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

[This message was edited by wanderlust on Dec. 08, 2003 at 02:21 PM.]

[Tap2Tango]

I don't know much about TB bloodlines.
Here is Tap's mom's dad's bloodlines. (wow I hope that made sense!)
http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Better+Arbitor&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

~Steph

*Tapestry* 2000 Dutch WB mare by Contango

[Beethoven]

My friend wants to look up her horse, but he is not on pedigreequery, so what is the website where you can type in the horses name and get their parents. There was a post earlier this year explaining how to do this, but I can't find it!

Thanks for your help!

~Jenna & Beethoven~
http://community.webshots.com/user/jlm179

[LaraLeigh]

Oh they are all related somewhere! I train for a TB rescue / rehab and they all seem to haveNative Dancer in there or Hyperion - Nasrullah - Nearco.... if I have 5 horses in training - I have fun looking at their pedigrees and saying - he is his half nephew and those tow are second cousins... etc etc - hee hee. Sometimes the way I can tell a horse was better bred is to see that the sire and dam were winning horses themselves... but truth is, as riding horses, you gotta go by the horse on his own conformation, mind and merit in general.

For instance, I helped a barn liquidate their horses - they tended to breed anythign to anything - yes, there were big names in the pedigrees but you coudl tell by looking at the record that a lot of the horses were young when bred and down a series of generations - doing some checking - a horse woudl blow out an ankle and never do much at the track but because he had some Native Dancer in there and some something else, he was taken back and bred to everything though he really never amounted to much and then his offspring sent to train with cheapie trainers and broke down fast adn then sent hoem to be bred and bred - nothing careful and there I was - trying to place some TBs that are the type that sort of stay "green forever" and too dangerous for most horsepeople to handle and not worth the effort for most experienced horse people. So, of course, I bougth two of them (I am a sucker - they were very pretty to look at).

Anyone want to share their dosage for their horse and describe what kind fo a worker they are - if they are physically really strong, agile and have good endurance? BE HONEST! It woudl be interesting to see if the thoughts on dosage are real.

Speedy has a very very low dosage - one woudl like for a stakes winner type. My two mares have a high dosage and they both are athletic and terrific but they are nto as physically strong as Speedy. Also, Speedy was given so many chances as a racer and sold for a lot of money and never raced in cheapie races - he did go in some claimers in the end but everything was a high dollar claimer (he hurt his shoulder and after that never raced as well as he had). The two mares were tested and never raced. So I woudl think the dosage did reflect their performance as a racehorse. I have a 17.3 TB in training and though he woudl make a fabulous A hunter - he is not as agile and powerful as Speedy - not even close so I want to look up his pedigree and see - I am goignt o bet it is high.

[Albion]

Not suprised N. Dancer is everywhere in steeplechase bloodlines - Northern Baby is (I think?) one of THE most successful sires of steeplechase horses.

Interesting you like the Danzig breds, Devildog - we had a little colt by Makin (Danzig X Give Thanks) who was a snarky little critter. I've heard that a lot of the Danzig bred horses can have a bit of an 'attitude'.

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[equestrielle]

I just wanted to chime in about What Luck -- I have a What Luck mare:

La Body Beautiful (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=la+body+beautiful&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

By Lejoli out of a What Luck daughter. You may notice she's double Bold Ruler, close up .. .and she looks it! I love this mare though, she's so classy and her last owner used her as a trail horse and would gallop her on the trails. I have ridden her and she's very sweet, a little on the muscle but not bad at all. She's going to be bred to a Swedish Warmblood in the spring, if I can get her in foal -- she's 16 now and I hope I get another baby out of her. She also has Sir Ivor close up. She's a 3/4 sister to Ambassador in Love, who is now deceased, but was approved for Trak breeding. I found this mare in the local trader paper!

The other mare I have that makes great big nice sporthorse babies is a Nijinsky granddaughter: Dramatic Beauty (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=dramatic+beauty&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

She's just 15hh but has big foals -- she also has Damascus and Turn-To in there. She's a nervous mare though, and can be a little nutty at times, but is a nice riding horse. She hates to be alone. I have heard the Nijinskis can be the nervous type, a little "hotter".

[LMH]

Is anyone familiar with a stallion Continental Morn as having potential hunter offspring?

He has Blushing Groom, Fleet Treat, Raja Baba, Well Decorated?

[Erin Pittman]

Southern Promise (http://www.pedigreequery.com/cgi-bin/allbreed/query.cgi?all=&x=&horse=SOUTHERN+PROMISE&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=&v=Yes)

Here's my yearling 1/2-TB filly. She's by a son of Capote - how are Seattle Slew babies in the non-racing world? I have high hopes for her so I hope you give me the right answer http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Erin Pittman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Silly Mommy:
OK, I'm not as much a dummy as I thought. Found one!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's another one:

http://www.tbheritage.com/Portraits/BlueLarkspur.html

[Erin Pittman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beethoven:
My friend wants to look up her horse, but he is not on pedigreequery, so what is the website where you can type in the horses name and get their parents. There was a post earlier this year explaining how to do this, but I can't find it!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to pay for the service, but you can use either Brisnet (http://www.brisnet.com) or Equineline (http://www.equineline.com)

Also, wanderlust - who is your guy's dam? You could always add him to Pedigree Query (or let me do it...)!

Erin

[NancyL]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by doublete:

Mine is by Common Grounds.. Can anyone find a picture of him? I just ran a google search and didnt have any luck...

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.
http://www.geocities.com/doubletefarm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try contacting the farm where he stood stud -- I contacted the people at Coolmore (and their US division) and they sent me their full color stallion brochure with Alzao's info in it as well as a bunch of other info on him. A quick search reveals that Common Ground spent some time at the stud farm linked below. Good luck.

link to stud farm (http://www.race-horses.com/studs/yeomanstown/)

[wanderlust]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horse_hugger:
Also, wanderlust - who is your guy's dam? You could always add him to Pedigree Query (or let me do it...)!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
He's out of Diamond Duo by Badger Land, with Ribot on both top and bottom in the 4th. Also has Count Fleet and Bold Ruler in the 4th. Not too shabby. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Lord Helpus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wanderlust:
I just yesterday bought a half brother to Real Quiet (Derby and Preakness winner). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From the rest of your post, it appears you meant to say that you bought a horse by Quiet American (as is Real Quiet).

In breeding parlance, horses are only half siblings if they are out of the same mare. This is because a stallion can sire over 125 foals per year. While a mare can have only one. So, if every foal by one stallion was said to be a half brother/sister to every other foal, the term would become meaningless.

If you did buy a horse out of Really Blue, then forgive the above..... You are correct -- you did buy a half brother to Real Quiet.

[LMH]

Another stallion inquiry-

Does anyone know a stallion named Roscius? If so do you know anything about his offspring?

[MsDuch]

Cool, I guess my mare's pedigree is pretty nice: http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Spanish+Flipp&g=9&inbred=Standard&x2=y

She wants to be an eventer, I think. Great jump, bold, all-business gallop. But she's a sweetie who charms everyone, fab work ethic, and has tried her heart out doing dressage with me. If I were rich, I would clone her. Then send the baby to a real rider who could do more with it than I have with my girl!

MsDuch

[inmotion]

At the risk of looking really stupid I'm going to ask what is dosage?

Mary

[RLady]

What a very interesting topic! Sadlers Wells is my horses Grandfather on his Sire's side, and Mr. Prospector was his Grandfather on his dams side . . . All truly confusing for me. But cool none the less!

Thanks for the link to find out his pedigree. I even saw some Native and Northern Dancer in there.

[Simkie]

Dosage explained:

http://www.chef-de-race.com/

[DMK]

My two seem to run true to their dosage, but it's tough to say, as it's not like you get a true test of stamina in the hunter world. But one has a DI of 0.41 with the more important (IMO) CD=-0.58 (fairly uncommon for a US TB), and he does take a while for his motor to get humming. Then he is perfectly content to cruise right along. Nice trait in a hunter. The other one is DI=1.75/CD=0.55 and his motor does get in gear a little faster. But these are still fairly low numbers for sprint crazy American TBs so I am not sure what it really says about dosage and sport horses (other than we already KNEW we wanted the dam's pedigree loaded for endurance!)

On the topic of dosage, I noticed most of Denny's stallions were in that classic model of endurance on the bottom with speed/endurance on the top. And Reputed Testimony is one of the nicest looking horses I have seen in a while.

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[wanderlust]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
From the rest of your post, it appears you meant to say that you bought a horse by Quiet American (as is Real Quiet).

If you did buy a horse out of Really Blue, then forgive the above..... You are correct -- you did buy a half brother to Real Quiet.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dammit, I knew that. In fact, have often corrected people on it. Big brain cramp, brought on by big headache, brought on lack of sleep (and lack of any money in savings account http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif) due to excitement over the new pony.

Thanks for the correction, LHU. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

~formerly Master Tally~

[inmotion]

OK, I went to the site...thanks Simke....Rave has a dosage of 2.0 and a CD of .43.
So what does that mean?
He bled out badly as a 2 yr old and lost, then as a 3 yr old ran 4 more times on Lasix and lost badly. He was a terrible race horse. He is a wonderful show hunter.
I read about it, but am dixlexic and really don't get it. Sorry all.....please help.
Mary

[DMK]

inmotion - what are his numbers (the stuff inside the parens)?

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[Simkie]

Okay, here's dosage as relates to distance:

Distance Average DI Average CD
5 1/2 f 4.46 0.81
6 f 4.50 0.87
6 1/2 f 4.01 0.81
7 f 3.97 0.81
8 f 3.18 0.67
8f & 70 yds 3.42 0.71
8 1/2 f 3.15 0.67
9 f 2.96 0.63
9 1/2 f 2.58 0.55
10 f 2.58 0.55
11 f 2.09 0.43
12 f 2.06 0.41

Blah, can't make the table come out well.

It's in this (http://www.chef-de-race.com/dosage/review.htm) article. Dosage is just a way of classing TB's. A high DI means they're sprinters, a low one means they're more likely to do well over distance.

[CoolMeadows]

I'm currently absolutely enamoured with a 3 year old whose sire is by Nijinsky and out of a Damascus mare, and his dam is a Grey Sovereign grand-daughter. My mare Eddie's sire is by Nijinsky and out of a Damascus mare, and her dam was also a Grey Sovereign grand-daughter and could that mare jump!
I really don't need another horse right now but couldn't help calling about him and they're going to run him in a claiming race on the 17th or 18th. Any input on his pedigree? How about how claiming races work? Would I be able to claim him or not?

www.coolmeadows.net (http://www.coolmeadows.net)

[inmotion]

Thanks Simke and LH!

in the B - 3 in the 4th gen = 3
in the I - 4 second gen and 4 in the 3rd and 4 in the 4th gen = 12
in the C - 4 in the second gen and 4 in the 3rd and 2 in the 4th = 1
In the S - 4 in the 3rd and 1 in the 4th =
In P - none

His Dam is Runabout by Sir Ivor and his Sire is I Am The Game.

his numbers are then....3-12-10-5-0.....my little knucklehead....love of my life..Rave

Mary

[inmotion]

Thanks Simke and LH!
none in 1st gen.
B = 3 in 4th gen = 3
I = 4 in snd + 4 in 3rd + 4 in 4th = 12
C = 4 in 2nd + 4 in 3rd + 2 in 4th = 10
S = 4 in 3rd + 1 in 4th = 5
P = none in P

3-12-10-5-0

Does this mean anything to a show hunter?
Ravey doesn't have a fast bone in his body unless he's clocking around the field, then he's very fast and outruns all his OTTB field mates easily. Which is why he's alone in a paddock now....after they'd run awhile he'd beat them up. He's too valuable to allow that under any circumstances. I have to kick him around courses....and he usually goes slower the more I push...although coming out of the hunter circle I always have the pace and he's on the money and never changes..he's really fun to ride. he never pulls or runs or slows up or stops...I just set up the corners, he does the rest. Ha! Even when mistakes are made by either of us, he doesn't change past necessary adjustments, all he does is squeel really quietly...it's so funny to hear..my trainer and I crack up every time he does it... Mary

[inmotion]

Rave is
by I Am The Game
out of Runabout by Sir Ivor.

Poor boy couldn't race his way onto Del Mar.

[inmotion]

Sorry about all the posts.thought I deleted the first one accidently..guess I didn't....then rambled too much in the next one...

[Lazeo_E]

This is my old OTTB pedigree:
Mister E (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Mister+E&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Never Bend seems to have a huge influence in the Hunter lines, above mare is 3 generations removed from Never Bend on her Sire's side, but there is a stallion here in texas who is "Never Bend Better"

http://www.chencofarm.com/nbb.htm
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never Bend Better's sire is my mare's half-brother. *Ormea (NBB granddam) ran in Brazil and Argentina before she was imported to the US and ran in (and won) stakes races at Santa Anita. She had quite a few California bred foals. Bend Again (NBB sire) raced, then was evented through Intermediate before standing as a sport horse sire. My mare (in Del Mar under her registered name, Road Weary) is a grade 2 event horse. All of *Ormea's offspring that went to the track won races except for my mare and her full brother (they had to be kicking themselves for doing THAT twice http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif). (My mare's sire is Peregrinator, who ran second to Spectacular Bid once. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif)

Anyway, I'm really intrigued by *Ormea - she seemed to produce some quality babies. I wonder if any of her other babies were tried as sport horses. As a South American bred, she had a lot of European TB lines in her pedigree. Does anyone know anything about the names in her pedigree? Her sire, Again II, is familiar, but I can't recall any specifics. In general, I'm really interested in coming across mares who have multiple good sport horse babies.

[CoolMeadows]

Hey Poltroon, Again2 is the maternal grandsire of my Eddie too, that's the only part of her pedigree that differs from this 3 year old that I'm going crazy over... Again2 was by Foxhunter, and comes from the Dark Ronald line. Your mare goes back to Dark Ronald again through Oleander, very interesting pedigree!
Here's a bit about Dark Ronald:
The Dark Ronald Line (http://www3.sympatico.ca/pete.birdsall/darkron.htm)
Foxhunter was also the gransire of Rantzau (the sire of Cor De La Bryere), and Rantzau shows in under 4 generations in all these guys:
Atout d'Isigny
Baloubet du Rouet
Calei Joter
Calvaro
Calvaro Z
Carthago Z
Cassiana Joter
Cento
Classic Touch
Operette la Silla
Souviens Toi III
Twist du Valon

She's also got Phalaris, the grandsire of Lucky Boy.
And like my mare, through Again2, she traces to the Hurry On/Precipitatoin line! Precipitation was the sire of Furioso...
Really nicely bred mare you have! I hope you plan to breed her when she retires.

www.coolmeadows.net (http://www.coolmeadows.net)

[CoolMeadows]

Again2 was an Argentinian bred, and I just noticed that this 3 year old I'm itching to get my hands on has Forli who's Argentinian also. So I looked him up, and he's full of Phalaris, Son In Law, and Foxhunter! Forli is also the gransire of a Hanoverian called Prince Thatch, who I don't know. He really is bred so similarly to Eddie. I want this horse! Can anyone give me any tips on claiming a horse?

www.coolmeadows.net (http://www.coolmeadows.net)

[DMK]

inmotion - if I was looking at him from the perspective of a horse bred for distance (based on his dosage alone) I would say that he is more classic breeding than the average American horse, but not really bred for distance in the true "international" sense of the word, especially if the 5 solid points were assigned dually instead of as a [S] only (meaning the sire(s) that carried the [S] were only solid horses as opposed to solid/classic sires.

But dosage doesn't have anything to do with the speed of the horse, just his ability to sustain his speed over X distance. There are plenty of horses who are very dominant [B] horses and couldn't outrun my old pony.

When you look at a dosage score, you can tell a few things right off - for instance if a horse has a high sum number (sum of all chef de race sires in his pedigree) then you can reasonably ascertain that he/she has many quality sires close up and deep in the pedigree. The amazing mare, Weekend Surprise, has a score of 60. Of course this number doesn't mean much more than the paper it is written on, as Storm Cat has 30 and John Henry has 28.

The DI is just the straightforward calculation of the balance between speed - aka all the numbers to the left of classic (a miler) and endurance (all the numbers to the right of classic). Classic itself is split between the two categories. The CD uses a formula that more heavily weights the outliers, Brilliant and Professional. The idea behind the CD is that if your horse has a low DI, but that is really achieved by a BIG number under [B] and the sum of some smaller numbers under [C] and [S] then the CD calculation will show that your horse is truly more of a speed horse than a miler. An example is a horse who has lots of classic/solid stuff far back in his pedigree but happens to be sired by a top sprinter, well the odds are he is probably a sprinter as well. The CD captures that logic.

But just to confuse things, a lot of horses have not read the dosage manual. John Henry has a DI=3.31 and CD=1, indicating he really shouldn't have won all those loooooooong races he did, never mind setting or equaling the track record several times at 10-12f. So you really have to take dosage with a grain of salt. But it is still a fun grain of salt all the same!

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[Madeline]

Not to be a nag, but am I the only one who would have had more fun in this thread if people didn't change their horses' names every time they changed ownership?

madeline

[Erin Pittman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Here's his pedigree on the sire line(for Real Quiet... they don't have my guy listed, despite being nominated for the 2002 Derby): http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=real+quiet&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is your guy D' Behr? They have him listed! Here's the link (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=D%27+Behr&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=y) to his pedigree. Also includes info about him. If it isn't your horse, let me know!!

Erin

[wanderlust]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horse_hugger:
Is your guy D' Behr? They have him listed! Here's the http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=D%27+Behr&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=y to his pedigree. Also includes info about him. If it isn't your horse, let me know!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats him, thanks! I looked up his 2-year old sales results, and lets just say that his sale price was 20 times his winnings. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Not a very good ROI for his owners... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Speaking of Never Bend, my mare's (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=l%27albereta&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=y) sire line goes back to him, and she has that classic hunter look and lope.

~formerly Master Tally~

[roxyrider]

Lord Helpus - Do you have pictures of Stevie & George you could share!? I use to ride a Darby Creek Road baby (he's still at the barn) & would love to compare the looks & characteristics. I'll try and get a picture of my guy posted. Austin (Darby Royal) actually looks more like a Cleveland Bay than a TB!! But I love him - he has such a funny cocky attitude. He's done mostly jumpers but he's actually placed in a couple hunter classes at B rated shows.

[jumpsalot]

So a dosage of1.98, 0.5 CD means Lio should race 11-12 furlongs?

Well, it 'splains why he was seemingly born fit

[jumpsalot]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Fire+Within&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

This is Lio,

[Pirateer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madeline:
Not to be a nag, but am I the only one who would have had more fun in this thread if people didn't change their horses' names every time they changed ownership?

madeline<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Most TB's don't get their names changed everytime they change ownership. Barn and show names, yes, but rarely registered name.

Rebecca and SNL (Stewie)
http://www.bluffparkfarm.com
http://community.webshots.com/user/pirateer

[Pendeen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunt_jump:
I had thought of Caro. Wasn't Loyal Pal a Caro son? I have been trying to find http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=ANNOTATE&g=5&l=. I am interested to see what he looks like. According to his pedigree, he is by the Caro son With Approval and (if we are on the right track with Western Prospect) out of Western Prospect's full sister. I have heard of With Approval, but I know nothing of him as a sport horse sire.

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can provide some anecdotal information for you.

I have a With Approval son that's out of a Roberto mare http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=pendeen&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

He couldn't run fast enough to keep warm at the track but he's a very nice hunter, jumps great, gets a hack prize. His canter is like a metronome and if I can manage to stay out of his way http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif he'll win the class for me.

The best part is his brain - quiet, generous, uncomplicated and very responsible. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My coach also has a With Approval son that's out of a Vice Regent mare. He has a fabulous jump and is a better mover than my guy.

Both have been very successful showing nationally up here at three-foot, with my coach's guy finishing up third overall and mine in sixth for the A/A 18-35 division. They were also second and third respectively in the adult medal in Ontario this year.

A selection of images of my horse are here: http://community.webshots.com/album/104029278HpqYte

[roxyrider]

Okay here's some pic's of the guy I did 3 season's on. He did better in jumper's & we finished off going in our first 4 foot classes in September. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif Unfortunatly that is the only time we will be able to do that because he now laid up from ringbone changes (P1&P2) so we don't know what he will end up being able to do. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Magnum (http://community.webshots.com/album/95966750DcsfGx?839)

Here is his pedigree - Out of Control (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Out+of+Control&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

Another horse my trainer is selling is a wonderful hunter (& jumper prospect). Here is his pedigree - Connor (Ralydar) (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Ralydar&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n). I wish I had before & after pictures because he looked like a drowned rat when he came but now he has filled out and is so handsome. He just lopes up to the fence and powers over them.

[poltroon]

CoolMeadows, thank you! That was a great article!

My mare is 18 and still going strong & sound after all she's done... I know it's pushing the envelope but I was thinking about breeding her in the spring, if the vet thinks she's worth a shot.

[sophab]

Hi there. I am new here, but find this very interesting. My mare Abby is not so well bred for hunters, although I would say she moves like one either!
http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=say+yes+first&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n
Howeverm my Soph is better--guess her father is better bred than I thought, man did I luck out!
http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=sweetsofistication&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n
It is really interesting to see what is out there, and who is breeding what.
I had heard about Eight Thirty as a sporthorse sire, not a race sire. I am very interested to see what the Seattle Slew lines do in the ring.

[sophab]

Oops, I meant I don't think Ab's moves like a hunter, too much knee action, although she has one heck of a jump in her.
As for the above post, Abby was 19 when we bred for Sophie. I just made sure she was thoroughly checked before I did it. Happy healthy beautiful filly 350 days later... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[poltroon]

My friend has a very nice young eventer by Distinctive Pro (by Mr. Prospector) out of Esther Is The Key (by Key to the Mint) who is out of a Seattle Slew mare. I will be keeping my eyes open for others with this breeding...

[K~2]

My pony (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=bold+carma&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n) Just off the track in late July, took to a Canadian Warmblood inspection a month later, where she recieved premium status. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
My friend has a very nice young eventer by Distinctive Pro (by Mr. Prospector) out of Esther Is The Key (by Key to the Mint) who is out of a Seattle Slew mare. I will be keeping my eyes open for others with this breeding...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

poltroon, I had Distinctive Pro in my layup barn oh so many years ago. He really was all the horse. He had a ton of presence and was generally well behaved but you could sense he wanted to physically push you around. He had been taught better than that, but you could just see the wheels spinning in his head. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

In the small world department, years later I had a boarder with a Distinctive Pro horse. I think that one demonstrates what happens when that pushy personality never gets handled right...

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[sprucie]

DMK, Distinctive Pro lives just down the road from me. He stands at Sugar Maple Farm, and he is such a handsome boy. He looks good for his age, and seems to have a good temperment. I saw him this fall when I stopped by to pick up some papers at their office.

Jodie LaForge
Spruce Hill Farm
http://www.sprucehillfarm.net

[inmotion]

Hey Soph! It's Mary & Rave! Your little girl is well bred, she has the right horses behind her. Look at the stall sign DH posted and made for me. I won it and the photo shoot that gave me that picture from the Auction for Aiden. Good to see ya here! Mary

[Pirateer]

I don't know Pirate's mommy's name, but his daddy's is
Pirateer (sire of my CareerPirateer) (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Pirateer&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

Anyone know anything about these guys? At least performance wise? Pi was a dud on the track. He got last, every time, and was bought during from the killers.
Rebecca and SNL (Stewie)
http://www.bluffparkfarm.com
http://community.webshots.com/user/pirateer

[Simkie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pirateer:
I don't know Pirate's mommy's name, but his daddy's is
http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Pirateer&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is your guy Career Pirateer, born in 1992?

His dam is Green Goddess. I added Career Pirateer to the pedigree database.

[jumpsalot]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=take+cover+sarge&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

This was my junior hunter. I showed her as Softly Spoken. Yes, she had a boy's name. Even her barn name was a boy's name-Phil(I called her Phyllis)

With Blue Larkspur on both sides, no wonder she could jump. But boy could she be "peppy". I put in my time with the longe line as a junior. I think that is why I HATE longeing now. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

She was an awesome mare when she was on. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[cgn38]

My latest OTTB is by High Brite out of a Stay the Course mare. He is a big 16.3 and very comfortable.

Another one of my OTTB's is by Duns Scotus. He is super gorgeous with a chiseled profile and he moves like the show ring daisy cutter hunters.

Another one is by Late Act - Stage Door Johnny and out of a Gate Dancer mare. He is the most intelligent horse that I have worked with (and one of the most challenging). He is small and catlike.

My fourth OTTB is by Bear Hunt out of a Cyane mare. He is just a great all around horse who I love doing gymnastics with because he loves a challenge.
I love each one and I don't have a favorite. They are each so unique.
Some people from the Northeast might recognize the New York studs.

[Pirateer]

Simkie...He might be! Not too sure. But thats the right year. COOL. Did you know her or what?

Pirate's Lines...Pretty nice, if you ask me. (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Career+Pirateer&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

Rebecca and Pirateer (Pirate) reunited for 2004 show season?
http://www.bluffparkfarm.com
http://community.webshots.com/user/pirateer

[Beezer]

Two words: Tom Fool. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Followed closely, at least out here, by Pretense.

***** Dear Santa: All I want for Christmas is two good knees. *****

[Simkie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pirateer:
Simkie...He might be! Not too sure. But thats the right year. COOL. Did you know her or what?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nah, it's all online right here (http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi/static.cgi?page=names) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Just gotta know where to look http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Beezer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
Albion,

If we could get Point Milou as a hunter prospect we are doing pretty well... Gone West stands for over $100,000....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just have to add here that my dear, sweet Topper, formerly known as Rusty Gun http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif , not only has Gone West (thus Mr. Prospector) and Best Turn on the top, along with Secretariat and the rest of the free world http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif , but on the bottom has Key to the Mint (and thus Graustark), Princequillo, Khaled and the mare family of my own beloved Original Beezer. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

And I have my COTH friends to thank for him. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

***** Dear Santa: All I want for Christmas is two good knees. *****

[splasha_hun_e]

My last Tb was a mare named soafie her sire was plugged nickle whose lines included my babu, princequillo, war admiral, ribot, and djebel. Her dam was a horse from argintina, so im not familiar with those lines. She was a awesome jumper but very Hot, and unpredictable. somewhat dangerouse to herself and whoever was riding her at that perticular moment.

But I will hand it to her she kept life interesting http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Horse people are Stable"

[Albion]

Hmm, just thinking - my friend's horse that just retired off the track is named Mutawwaj (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=MUTAWWAJ&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n&pedloggedin=0) - he's an Irish TB. I went up to see her when he was running at Laurel, and I was VERY impressed. Very good looking guy, sturdy, and solid as a rock (in a good way) - he broke his maiden as a 2 year old (I think) & just retired in October, no soundness problems - he bled pretty badly his past few starts, but showed NO indications of it. She had him scoped, obviously, but other than the results of that, he acted totally normal - and he bled really badly his last race. He's going to be her foxhunter now. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

[Madeline]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pirateer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madeline:
Not to be a nag, but am I the only one who would have had more fun in this thread if people didn't change their horses' names every time they changed ownership?

madeline<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Most TB's don't get their names changed everytime they change ownership. Barn and show names, yes, but rarely registered name.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but if a horse is originally registered as , for example "Red Flag", then shows as "Red Banner", "Red Beauty", "My little Red Pony", " Apollo", "Mars" and 17 other names, It's really hard to keep track of him. And none of those names will produce the correct pedigree.

I know the registration doesn't change, but the registered name disappears. If you want to find out how some winning show hunter is bred, you are probably not going to be able to go to the DelMar site and find him. Nor will you be able to see if any of his siblings are doing anything because their names have all been changed multiple times as well.

Just too confusing...

madeline

[Beezer]

Madeline, I see your point, I honestly do.

But there is no way, no how I am showing a horse named Rusty Gun. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Just not gonna do it. And off the top of my head, I can think of dozens of other registered names that would have been deal breakers for me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

***** Dear Santa: All I want for Christmas is two good knees. *****

[Simkie]

LOL Beezer.

There's also no way I'm showing a pretty little mare named "Yodar." What on EARTH were they thinking?

At least Blush has a good name. "Blushing Maiden" might be a little cheesey, but it works for me. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[sophab]

Thanks Mary. I knew that Soph was something special, but I had never really checked out Ozzy's lines, just knew I liked him! I tell you, that woman has an eye for the horses. Just sold a grey Caro bred stud, I want to say it was personality issues, but could have just been the right price at the right time, you know? Also gelded 2 yrs ago a well bred chestnut who was just gorgeous. I got really lucky when I found her.
My old hunter Monty out in CA was a Ribot grandson. If he's still alive, he'll be turning 23 this year. He was big (17 hands) and could jump the moon. On the name thing, someone saw fit to change his registered name from Bob's Greco (ick) to "Tiny Tim". I just couldn't show that big guy as Tiny Tim, so we went for Lord Montague. It worked. Abby is Say Yes First. I used it, but wasn't happy about it. Sophie I had contol over, so she is Sweetsofistication...and that one you will see in the ring some day (and hopefully hear announced over the intercom!)

[LMH]

Has anyone heard of these two stallions-I posted earlier in this thread and on H/J for the first one but thought I would give it one more go:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/tmp/149280.576134020303474.php

or

http://www.pedigreequery.com/tmp/150990.870921876122342.php

[sophab]

Hi there. I couldn't get the links to work, might by my less than exceptional computer skills though. What are the names of the studs?

[LMH]

The stallions are Roscius and Cobra King....

I just KNOW if I ask about Roscius in enough places someone will have something to say http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I wish I could post the pedigree-both are pretty fancy

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beezer:
Madeline, I see your point, I honestly do.

But there is no way, no how I am showing a horse named Rusty Gun. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Just not gonna do it. And off the top of my head, I can think of _dozens_ of other registered names that would have been deal breakers for me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

_***** Dear Santa: All I want for Christmas is two good knees. *****_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Madeline, I see your point too, and I would not change a horse's name unless the old name really bugged me.

And my goodness. WHO would name a filly Road Weary and then be surprised that she didn't win at the track? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

(But, it was the owner before me who changed the name.)

[LMH]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:


And my goodness. WHO would name a filly Road Weary and then be surprised that she didn't win at the track? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

(But, it was the owner before me who changed the name.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The same fools that named my first TB US Choice

[Beezer]

Among my favorite "nope" names: Look Out Below.

Cute ... but not for any horse you hoped would leave up the obstacles! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

***** Dear Santa: All I want for Christmas is two good knees. *****

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LMH:
The stallions are Roscius and Cobra King....

I just KNOW if I ask about Roscius in enough places someone will have something to say http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I wish I could post the pedigree-both are pretty fancy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what was Roscius from? The last crop of Stage Door Johhny? I had no idea he was still breeding that late.

As for Cobra King, his pedigree is very interesting. I have a mental notation to always keep an eye out for Farma Way (deceased) offspring since a) he was a drop dead beautiful, classic hunter style horse and b) his tail line is Diplomat Way, which seems to work for some hunter people out there. AND, Cobra King's dam is a Fabled Monarch mare, and Fabled Monarch (stood at Warioto) has produced some nice hunter offspring. Nationally ranked offspring, IIRC...

Now that picture on pedigree query isn't so hot, but that may not mean a damn thing. It would be interesting to see him move and his offspring.

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[LMH]

Phew-DMK THANK YOU for finally noticing me frantically waving here-I thought you might like some of the names in the boys pedigrees.

I don't know if Roscious was the last crop of Stage Door Johnny but certainly close.

I am not certain if Roscious is breeding TODAY-I can't find any offspring listed after 1997. I know he was sold to carry on in the hunters and supposedly was breeding at that time. He would be about 16yo now I believe.

I thought Cobra King might catch your eye for the Diplomat Way blood and I of course was drawn to Fabled Monarch.

Perhaps when Roscius went on the the hunter life, they changed his name? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

One stud to make you coo is Not For Love-mentioned earlier in this thread. Talk about a LOOKER!

[Simkie]

Roscius filed a report of mare bred in 2002, so he was still breeding last year.

[DMK]

Yup, that Diplomat Way certainly does it for me! The way I look at it, Marfa and Farma Way were both exceptionally good lookig horses, Diplomat Way certainly produces lookers, Fabled Monarch does the same.

Most people talk about influence, when in truth they are looking at something 3-4 generations back (I am guilty of the same thing). In this case you are at least talking about the immediate family.

Let me know if you find any Marfa Way mares. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[LMH]

Oh Simkie can you give me details? Where did you find the info...I would actually love to know who owns him so i could contact them.

[sophab]

I know my old trainer from high school (when I showed hunters) bred her mare to Quiet Cat, and a few of her students bought his offspring. Just looked him up on pedigreequery, and lo and behold there is a little i next to his name and when you click it is says "well known hunter sire". I didn't see anything spectacular in his breeding, but I could be missing things, just took a quick look. Apparently he produced well though. Anyone out there know anything about him?

[sophab]

Hmm, and I am just guessing, but Simkie may be linked in to Jockey Club interactive. You can order just about anything from equineline.com for a price. They have specials every month that you can get for free. I don't remember what this month's was.

[DMK]

hrsrdr37, would it count if I handled Young Ralph ("Alfie") on and off for about 7 years, bred my mare to him, handled about 5 or 6 of his half siblings, have a few dozen pictures of him, named many of his offspring, and knew his dam as well as I knew Alfie? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh yea, he did sire the horse that set the world record at 5 1/2 furlongs (HeckofaRalp - Young Ralph X Heckofadevil)...

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

[DMK]

Color me just as surprised to see your post. It's not like he was an even minorly well known stallion in FL. In fact he pretty much only bred home mares and a few neighborig farm's mare in SFL (the dam's name is not familiar, but I will probably be at the farm this Christmas and will check and see if she is a mare that came after I left the farm).

But he was one of my all time favorite horses, and .

My scanner isn't hooked up at this exact moment, and I have to head off to work, so if I may not be able to add anything until tonight or tomorrow afternoon.

"I used to care, but things have changed..." Bob Dylan

[DH]

Okay, here's my mare...

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Mystical+Pagan&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n

I've read all of the posts here and was waiting for someone to bring up Vice Regent, who is my mare's grandsire on the top, who I understand was quite prolific especially here in Ontario. This mare is quite heavily Native Dancer bred through Nearctic-&gt;Northern Dancer a couple of times (I know, who isn't?) and one cross through Native Dancer-&gt;Native Charger (who someone referred to a little earlier in the thread). She also has an additional Nearctic cross on the dam side through Saber Thrust.

Her dosage numbers are:
4-1-6-0-1 (12)
DI = 2.00
CD = 0.58

Any comments on her sport horse suitability from pedigree and dosage alone? Any anecdotes from anyone who's had similarly bred horses?

I'm pretty much a dosage neophyte so if anyone can interpret an opinion of them, in somewhat laymen's terms, I'd love that http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

She's my cup of tea, but not to everyone's liking! Here she is strutting her stuff in the dressage ring (http://www.encompassdesign.com/private/images/pogtrotshow2003.jpg)

~Mighty TB Clique~
"The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." ~ Ellen Parr

[DMK]

OK, hrsrdr, here are a few pics of Alfie...

You will have to forgive the pose, at that point in my life I was showing QHs and the 3/4 rear view is mandatory for that discipline. I do have a conformation pic in an 8X10, but just the thought of taking out of the frame and putting it on the scanner defeats me...

All these pics were taken around 1984-85, and if you are wondering what is going on with that RF leg, that would be the mother of all bows. I have seen and worked on literally 100s of bowed tendons, and never seen one as bad as his. But knowing the farm trainer and the track trainer, that bow was not caused by a structural weakness in the horse. That bow had a cause, and it was caused by human ignorance.

Alfie was bred by the farm I worked at. His dam, Stage Door Betty was one of the winningest daughters of Stage Door Johnny, and she looked a lot like SDJ. She was also the most dominant, nasty, confident old wench of a mare I ever came across. A total displeasure for anyone to work with. Unless of course you were her mother, Betty Sessa (a wonderful person and we miss her so much). Then she was a total sweetie. But she was a real one person horse and she would light up everytime she saw Betty drive by on her golf cart. The only other person she ever tolerated was man named Frank Presley. But even Frank had to request the presence of Ms. Betty when it was time to catch the old wench. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

In one of the strangest things I have ever seen, her fillies were eeeeeeeeevil, almost studish aggressive (her filly, Dark Starski, had people at the track fearing her arrival months before she ever left the farm). But her colts were as laid back and mellow as anything I ever met. Unfortunately she liked to produce fillies. Sigh...

I got Alfie in my layup barn after that - ahem - bow. I don't think anyone thought he would make it back after that, and somewhere along the line they decided to use him as the farm stallion. So he became a permanent resident in my string, since that was where we kept the breeding stallions. He was the perfect gentleman from day one. There are not too many TBs in a busy barn I would trust to ground tie in an aisle to be groomed, but he was one of them.

His offspring tended to be stamped by the dam, expecially the fillies. The boys looked a little more like Ralph, and some of them had his massiveness (he was one stout horse). He did have that funny knack of creating an aggressive filly and a sweet colt just like his mother though. And it was anyone's guess what size horse he would produce, but if the dam had a tendency to throw small, then small was probably what you got. Naturally when I bred my 15'0 QH mare to him (a not so humble mare in her own right), of course I got a chestnut filly who grew to... 14'3... (sigh) My friend bred her mare that same year, and got a bay colt. My filly went on to be known as the spawn of Satan (we revisited the "who is the boss" question at least monthly, and she never won, but she never gave up hope either). Meanwhile the colt was and is the sweetest thing on the planet.

I would love to see some pics of your guy, and forward them on to the farm. I know they would like to see them too!

"I used to care, but things have changed..." Bob Dylan

[DMK]

another pic

"I used to care, but things have changed..." Bob Dylan

[DMK]

And one of my favorites

"I used to care, but things have changed..." Bob Dylan

[DMK]

And just for grins, here is that red Ralph filly of mine (less than 2 days old in this pic, IIRC)

They both look angelique, don't they? Hard to believe that mare almost decapitated the vet's assistant a mere 48 hours earlier, isn't it? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"I used to care, but things have changed..." Bob Dylan

[doublete]

Anyone know anything about Unzipped???
Can't for the life of me figure out why someone would breed a half decent mare to him... The mare is Mr. Prospector (northern prospect) and Dr. Fager...

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.
http://www.geocities.com/doubletefarm

[LMH]

QUESTION

OK-let's say I fall MADLY in love with a TB stallion and decide I want one of his offspring...I check Del Mar and find all his babes in the age group I want...

NOW-how do I find out if they are still racing, winning and who owns them?

[hunt_jump]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LMH:
_QUESTION_

OK-let's say I fall MADLY in love with a TB stallion and decide I want one of his offspring...I check Del Mar and find all his babes in the age group I want...

NOW-how do I find out if they are still racing, winning and who owns them?

_ _ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good question LMH, I have been wondering the same thing. How do we track down the offspring to see if the breeding is producing what we think it should and how do we find these horses who look so fabulous on paper?

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[K~2]

Try brisnet or equineline.... they both have products to track progeny of a stallion

On Brisnet it's #320 for a specific crop ($7.50) or #365 for all foals ($16.00)

On Equineline its #32 for specific crop ($8.00)

Equine Web Design http://www.tbconnect.net

[EponaRoan]

Order BRIS or equineline's stallion report and then input the names of the babies that you want to follow into either DRF or BRIS Stable Alerts. That'll tell you if they are running or if they have works, etc and where.

I usually pull BRIS #365. They have been known to offer it for free on occasion if you are a subscriber.

http://www.brisnet.com/java-bris/servlet/PedHome

Pat
http://www.quarterpole.com

[hunt_jump]

So you all thought this thread was dead right? Well I decided to dust it off from page 10 to ask...

Does anyone know anything about the first few generations in this pedigree? (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Flash-she&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n) I recognize Riverman and Round Table and then more in the fourth and fifth generations, but don't really know anything about the first few generations.

Thanks

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[Linny]

Hey DMK, they ran the "Stage Door Betty Stakes" at Calder today. It's a nice race.

Hunt_Jump I can't help with the first two generations on that pedigree. The third generation has some nice horses. Table Run and Rio Carmello were likely less that successful sons of very good horses. They were then bred to unsuccessful daughters of good stallions.

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

[horse_poor]

i have a great great grand son of man o war and everyone says oh wow he must have a bad temper like man o war huh? noooooooooooooooo he doesnt--he is sweet and laid back http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

heres a pic

http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/291203-browntrib.jpg

i dont think he looks nothing like his great gramps......

Molly, Aristotle, and Brown Baggin' in MN

proud member of senior horse clique

"if ya aint got it on the ground, ya aint got it over the jumps....and dont let him use the wall as a crutch.." kristine pfister stephenson, 1992

[hunt_jump]

Thanks Linny, I recognized some nice sporthorse type breeding but it is all a ways back (third, fourth, and fifth generation). So if there is nothing stellar in the first two generations (looking at this from a sporthorse point of view) would we consider this a well bred horse? Where do you draw the line of where to look for important stallions/dams to qualify a horse as well bred?

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[Linny]

IMO, once you go back 3 generations a single horse's influence starts to be seriously diluted. What I do like to see is some inbreeding to a good stallion or mare (or full sisters) to double or triple the influence. This mare has an odd pedigree in that she's anoutcross for a full 4 generations, very rare today.
Her dam comes from a similar (reversed) cross as Secretariat, Princequillo x Nasrullah. In her case the Princequillo is on top and the Nasrullah is 5 generation back on the bottom. Oddly, her own sire Table Run has the SAME cross. Table Run is Princequillo, (sire side 2 generations) x Nasrullah (dam, 3 generations).
You get an extra Nasrullah cross, tail male in the 5th generation. Also Mahmoud and Nasrullah are very closely related so in the 6th generation there is alot of very hot Blenheim blood.
Also notice that in the 5th generation is the stallion, Your Host. He was the sire of the great Kelso, though he himself had quite a story. Kelso was one of the greatest race hrses of the last century and after his retirement became a hunter for Mrs DuPont's daughter. He was a very nice jumper.

How's that for a long post about a horse I know nothing about? It just proves that behind every thoroughbred is a story, sometimes a long one...

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

[num1train]

Hi Linny

You seem to know quite a bit about pedigree. Would you be willing to give me some insight on my mares pedigree?How Sweet (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&horse=how+sweet3&g=5)

We are looking to do jumpers with her.

Thanks,

Dana

Don't just appear in life, STAR in it!

[SillyFilly]

Just a note to say this is an AWESOME thread... Learning a LOAD...!

Amy
MOOP Clique! OPH Clique! GUBR Clique!
Disgruntled College Student Clique!

[Linny]

nun1train, your horse is beautifully bred. Blue Ensign was a lesser stakes winner but he's well bred, o/o a 3/4 sister to Ruffian. It is classic Janney family breeding.
Sweet Hollyann is by the fast Silver Buck from a great old CV Whitney family. Silver Buck is by Buckpasser so you get more Phipps breeding. I say "more" because the Janney's are Phipps cousins and both families are Claiborne clients.
I love the addition of the fast and tough In Reality line. Some horses seem to lose toughness with too much "blue blood." It looks like Box Supper was mostly bred to Fla stallions but they must have liked the In Reality's, they used him alot. Her broodmare sire, Noholme was a son of one of the foundation sires of Austral-Asian racing's last 50 years, Star Kingdom.
Sweet Hollyann is typical of the type of mares that would be bred to a stallion like Blue Ensign. She's a few generations from star power on the track and he was a second tier racer.
From a jumping perspective I LOVE Buckpasser for hunters. They are typy and stylish and very balanced. The In Reality ads toughness and a bit of a QH-type look and the record of the Bold Ruler's in well known. BR's full brother Independence was a champion 'chaser. Hoist The Flag was a fairly refined type and should balance well the the bottom side of the pedigree.

Do you have any pics of your filly, I'd loff to see her? That goes for any of these AWESOME tb's!

BTW, this thread makes me think of one of my fellow TB lovers: our dear departed DUBLIN. I'm sure as I type she's up there in a racing barn pointing toward the champions as I mention their names. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

[Fred]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cgn38:
My latest OTTB is by High Brite out of a Stay the Course mare. He is a big 16.3 and very comfortable.

Another one of my OTTB's is by Duns Scotus. He is super gorgeous with a chiseled profile and he moves like the show ring daisy cutter hunters.

Another one is by Late Act - Stage Door Johnny and out of a Gate Dancer mare. He is the most intelligent horse that I have worked with (and one of the most challenging). He is small and catlike.

My fourth OTTB is by Bear Hunt out of a Cyane mare. He is just a great all around horse who I love doing gymnastics with because he loves a challenge.
I love each one and I don't have a favorite. They are each so unique.
Some people from the Northeast might recognize the New York studs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what is the name of your Stay the Course mare?
when I bought my Al Hattab-Star Apple-Cyane mare Star of Light, she was in foal to Stay the Course.. I sold that filly to an eventer, and then she went on to be an A Circuit Hunter.. and I have lost track of her... her reg name is Wonderful Life... any one know of her?? (I want her back!)
thank you hunt-jump for mentioning A Fine Romance, who I bred to be a race horse..... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
other of my mares include:
Macassa (Same Direction-(Vice Regent) - Wet Blue)
Stop the Regent (Dom Alaric - Lady Shephard - Vice Regent)
By the Letter (Arts and Letters- By the Hand -)
Park Avenue Pearl - Diamond Prospect - Malmenee - Riverman
Devon Girl (Brave Shot - Two Bitter - Pluck (Double Jay/Nasrullah))
The Mr Prospector's tend to turn out in the right front, sometimes all the way from the shoulder.. there was a lovely stallion up here, at Windfields, gorgeous in profile.....
but no one can say they can't run!

[Lazy Palomino Hunter]

My guy is by Unfold, out of Never Far (City Line). And since I love Mugsy, I guess I'm partial to Unfold babies http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif .

Alison

Farriers are like cats. They don't like to go out in the rain and they don't come when you call them.

[sweetnlo]

Stage Door Johnny & Bebopper made Broadway Jester who made Boston Jester(sweet, huge, hunter with a baby face and great disposition) with Boston Duchess who was made by One more slew & Writ. Jester & Duchess made like 5 more babies, I want them all.

[LH]

Bragging Here http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

My jumper is by Dancing Again who is by Northern Dancer (whose lineage is Nearctic and Nearco) and on his sire's side he also has Bull Lea, Princequillo, Native Dancer, etc. On the side of the Dam, Carefully Taught, there is Raise a Native, more Native Dancer, Nasrullah (Nearco), Bold Ruler.

My jumper, registered in 1987 as "Short List", was kept a colt until he was 3, nominated for the Maryland Million, and has been mine for five years. Although he only won a few races (raced until he was 5 I think), and was scoped out as a jumper at 4'3", I think his good breeding have contributed to the fact that he's still going (doing the adult jumpers this year, not the a/o) and will be 17 next year!

[Bluesy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
And one of my favorites

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh My Goodness! He's So darn cute! Be-you-ti-full!


My Bluesy is by Hello Calder, out of Bright Flight by Pole Position

and he won $73.00 Cdn! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

He's coming to get you..and give you cuddles (http://community.webshots.com/photo/67917492/67920860YQdsIH)

http://community.webshots.com/user/littlerainintheface

"Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it."
~Douglas Adams

Cliques: The Mighty TB, OTTB, Albertan, Canadian, Plain Bay TBs, I-Love-Flatwork, QH, Artist, 40's Muzak, Barn Troll,Horses at Home, Tack Hoarder, YCMH!

[This message was edited by Bluesy on Dec. 29, 2003 at 09:45 PM.]

[CarolinaGirl]

Oh oh here's my new guys pedigree. Chance of Sleet (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Chance+of+Sleet&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

Carolina Girls- Best in the World.

[intuition]

Hey Carolinagirl-

My new greenie is a grandson of Seattle Slew too!! He is by Canadian Slew and out of Guilty Miss

My other new baby is by Dig Zig and out of Geliefan.

[Luv2ride]

My first horse, Try Friday, was by Cabin Mate and out of Lisa Sugar...he had Whirlaway like 2 lines back, and when I was little, I used to brag to anyone who would listen...lol

My boy now is by Rollicking...dont know his dam though...considering my trainer bred him, I guess I could just ask, lol

~Try Friday~
~Encore~
~Tiveragh Hill~
*Whoever said money can't buy you happiness, never owned a horse*

[LaraLeigh]

I placed a Native Prospector horse (I work for an OTTB rescue/rehab) and he is sound and incredible for jumping - like the kind of jumper people search the globe for. He's actually a grandson of. I have heard the Northern Dancers are good jumpers but have soundness issues. btu to be honest, I have 8 TBs in my barn right now and they all are somehow related to each other - most have Native Dancer and Northern Dancer and Man O War and Hyperion and Tom Fool and Princequillo and Secretariat and and and - they all seem to be related - I guess you sort of want to look at just the last two generations or you could get confused looking at too many pedigrees.

I mean, I have one Native Dancer great grandson and he's about as un-athletic a horse as I have ever met and DEAD quiet - best for trail. Not a 'forward thinker' at all and so forget showhorse. He's not it. But pleasant and sweet for sure.

My main squeeze in my barn is Slightly Speedy - a 15.3 very heavy boned Irish TB from the Princequillo line with Bold Ruler - and his mother's line is mostly Irish lines with Ribot in there. His dosage is very low and he was very good as a racer in Ireland until he hurt himself in a steeplechase. He is extremely gifted as a jumper but panicks over jumps and I am thinking it was due to his bad fall.

[dressager]

A new horse just came in at my barn... out of a Damascus DAUGHTER by a Breeder's Cup Juvenile winner (Success Express). Very sweet horse, good conformation. I haven't seen him move yet, but I could be in trouble if I do and like what I see. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif He seems to be pretty calm about most things though.

Dressager (http://www.geocities.com/lubenkafarm)
You don't throw a whole life away just because its a little banged up - Tom Smith

[bip]

They had a thread about this recently on the Racing forum. Turns out, a pet peeve of many racing industry folk is when we refer to a famous ancestor that is farther back than a parent (some are OK w/grandparents).

I looked up my never-raced TBs ancestry online a few weeks ago and was happy to find Native Dancer and War Admiral back there. WAY back there I laughed at myself, figuring ALL TBs out there have someone famous back there, I mean that's why they were bred! I figured his lineage wasn't anything more than novelty, which is just as well to me since he does his job well (as a dressage horse, go figure!) It was interesting because my gelding actually looks like a chestnut version of Native Dancer...but then again, he is a TB so how different could he possibly look? (please don't flame me for this last thing, it's just an offhanded comment and not a blanket statement about TBs)

Horses--especially racehorses--are not bred at random (people aren't "bred" completely at random, but it is certainly more random than racehorse breeding). I had some fun the other night choosing horse names completely at random and doing pedigree research on them. I would search "Charlie" -- I don't actually know this horse, but I figured there was a good chance that there was a racehorse with this name and I was right. He shared a lot of ancestry w/my own horse. I did the same for several other horses and they all had famous guys back there...4th and 5th generation back there!

So, I guess my horse and I are going to have to get by on our wits alone, rather than good breeding (I certainly don't have any famous relatives to brag about!) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Perfect Pony]

My new boy is a half brother to CarolinaGirl's new boy, by Seattle Sleet (Seattle Slew). His dam is by Trempolino, and I was pleased to see she is the grandaugter of Green Dancer.

You can see his pedigree here: Went a Dancin' (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=went+a+dancin&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

[num1train]

Linny: THANK YOU!!!!! I never imagined I would learn so much. What a gift. Thank you so much. I will post recent pictures of Sweetie soon. Her name fits her. She has an outstanding attitude. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Don't just appear in life, STAR in it!

[LisaX4156]

My current OTTB, Ufology, is by Stage Colony by Pleasant Colony. He's out of Twilight Zone(NZ). She placed in a stakes race I believe. Ufology's breeder owns Stage Colony.

My new TB that's coming is a 3 y.o who failed during race training (he was too slow). He is by Rubiano out of Movie Miss. I'm getting him for FREE, sight unseen, and pic unseen, except for shipping. Good deal! The breeder (who also bred Ufology), paid $10k for his breeding, too! Rubiano is standing at Lanes End farm.

Both these horses will be trained to jump. I'm sure they will make wonderful jumpers. Ufology will make a WONDERFUL mid level dressage horse.

I used to have a previous OTTB. He was by Corwyn Bay (IRE) out of Blowing Bubbles. He was a wonderful jumper, but a piss poor race horse.

Alright.. I just thought I'd add this in :-)

Lisa

Owner of:

· AQHA Guerratera
· Murphy, 9 yr old Paint gelding
· Utah.. aka Ufology 4 y.o OTTB gelding..

[LaraLeigh]

Agree - it is a novelty - a lot of people are mesmerized by their horse's pedigree and frankly, I think that is wonderful for them - do not let the racing industry put a damper on that - but to be real, as someone who works in and out of that industry to a degree - I see so many OTTBS, that after a while, the pedigrees start looking very similar as they are all criss crossed with each other. I think that what 'matters' are not just the parents but their parents but really that is it. What did the sire accomplish? What did the sire's sire accomplish? There has been a lot of breeding out there and sometimes a horse will be born to a great sire (one out of many) and that stallion will not amount to anything and then will be bred to a nice mare with no real genes of greatness and then you get a so-so racer. AND of course, many so-so racers make GLORIOUS show horses... and a lot of GREAT racers make terrible riding horses.

But it is still fun to look at sometimes. I have to giggle sometimes because I will be like HEY - Trey is Richie's nephew! OH and Oucata is Trey's second cousin (twice) and Storm's half brother... all in one barn. Wonder if they say "say hi to Aunt RosieRunner, please!" hee hee

But I do want to add that when I see a Slew son or grandson I seem to be able to spot them. They seem to move so nicely.

[Eventer55]

I was wondering if anyone in Texas has heard of a stallion named Uncopyable. He's the sire of my gelding. Uncopyable was a Texas accredited stallion, is dead now.

"When Allah created the horse he said. . . Thou shalt fly without wings and conquer without sword."

[Jumphigh83]

Linny, could youm look up "Dreamers Disease"?? That is Benjies real name....it may have an apostrophe in it...
My mare Corellis is by Blue Cinders(who is by a full brother to Bold Ruler) out of Royal Core by Cormac out of Call Royal by Bonne Nuit..That is her real JC name ...where do you look them up? Same as we do online or do you ahve a secret ???? Gotta love the Bold Rulers even with the attitude!

Betsy
www.threewindsfarmny.com (http://www.threewindsfarmny.com)

Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

[Linny]

Corellis is clsely related to Nancy's "Foolish." I use the Del Mar pedigree site and all the rest is just me spewing otherwise useless info that I have picked up. This what mR Linny calls "useless info that won't ever make me money" and he's right.
Neither of them are in the Delmar database. I hae a CDrom at work that should have them, it's from BRIS. I can do them at work in the am. I found out this morning that I have the day off! How did I get so lucky?

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

[jumper11]

I've had a couple Present Value babies, they are terrific. I tried posting his pedigree on horse prodegy but the link didnt' work. I know a few were sold back east a few years ago, and I think are doing well in the hunters. One of my babies (Morning Star) was sold back east, but did really well in the jr. medals in Cal. This is a great line for the medals, they are flashy, but not too big. Very athletic, spunky horses. I loved every one of them.

[titan]

Incredible stuff and so very interesting http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I looked up my latest Irish import who is aching to be a **** eventer. He is by a TB stallion with Roberto as paternal grandpa and Arts and Letters as maternal grandpa and out of a Diamond Lad mare. I guess he looks good on paper as well as under tack http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.positivestepfarm.com

[Linny]

Carolina Girl
Seattle Sleet himself was not a star but he is descended from a great female family. I think he was bred by EP Taylor's Windfields Farm.
I'm ot familiar with his female family but it is rare to see a 1997 foal with Nasrullah in the third cross.

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

[Robby Johnson]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SunshineGA:
Yep! Must be an Unbridled thing! So what have we learned? BE careful about Unbridled lines (which is probably why we don't see any on the hunter circuit)

I've also heard the Prospector babies have lameness issues, anyone experience this? The one gelding had ankle problems (and some brain problems... lazy as all get out and wouldnt jump at all) and the other gelding had a fractured shoulder when I got him to begin with so ended up with problems anyway.

Sir Ivor progeny are great!

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unbridled was by Fappiano who himself has sired quite a few nice hunters. Unbridled also sired one of Aaron Vale's GP jumpers (forget his name) and I believe it was BB'er Heather who met Unbridled in Kentucky a few years ago and said he was a lamb. Perhaps these "nuts" as you call them were their mother's children? Not good to go on a public bb and bash a sire without all of the facts, you know?

My own horse Rhodes Point is by a stallion called Press Card who is by Fappiano who is by Mr. P. His sire's dam line is Never Bend (Nasrullah) and his dam's dam line is Secretariat (Bold Ruler). While I choose to event him he could easily be a hunter or eq. horse. He is a good jumper with a tic-toc natural rhythm.

My mare Willow was a very heavily Nasrullah bred horse, with some lovely English TB bloodlines on the dam's dam side. Notably Owen Tudor/Tudor Minstrel. She was gorgeous and everything you would picture an event horse to be - catty and agile and fearless.

Ti Amo Romance, the offspring of Willow that bb'er Fred and I bred, is by A Fine Romance and brings even more Nasrullah blood to the equation, though he also brings Fred's fantastic contribution of Gay Missile/Missy Baba to the equation. He was bred to be an athlete, and we will see where his career takes him. At this point my hope is that he will be an FEI three-day horse.

Robby

edit to add: I found This Site On Fappiano (http://www.chef-de-race.com/dosage/fappiano.htm) while searching and thought it was pretty neat. I'm looking for a picture of him as he was quite stunning. He died at age 13, and Unbridled died young too.

So I'm a sistah, buy things with cash
It doesn't mean that all my credit's bad

http://community.webshots.com/user/rbjohnsonii

[This message was edited by Robby Johnson on Dec. 31, 2003 at 07:10 AM.]

[Fred]

Fappiano was gorgeous. I would love to have bred to him. Someone earlier (JUNO?) had a horse out of Lassie Dear.. Lassie Dear is a daughter of Gay Missile.. dam of Brave Shot, sire of A Fine Romance. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
It scares me how young stallions often die.
My vet (also vet for Cdn eventing team) was once vet for a big race horse breeding barn (where Brave Shot stood!) and we were talking about stallion mortality. He said that 16-17 seems to be a critical age for them. If they get past that, they often live into old age......
Our 'little' Ti Amo looks like one very high class hunter......http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[titan]

I have seen Gold Bridge often in the pedigrees I've pulled up. Anyone know his story? Also the stallion Fair Trial by Fairway? Thanks for any info http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.positivestepfarm.com

[Sacha]

well my OTTB's are all British or Irish.
My current mare Foxwood Polo is by Glacial Storm out of a Deep Run mare.
Glacial Storm I have never found a photo of but he was a chestnut with 'chrome' like Foxy. he stood at Coolmore in Ireland in their NH section.
Deep Run was one of the best steeplechasing sires of the 70/80s/90s.

My previous mare also was a Deep Run granddaughter.

Foxy is a big substantial mare with great movement and a bold jump. Hope to event her after she has bred me a gorgeous foal!

[thebarnrat]

My beast is out of Winter Tobin and by Fatih. Anyone know of these horses? Native Dancer bloodlines. Almost every horse in his pedigree has his same body type: pretty thick for a TB...almost warmblood type. Great mover, adorable jump, brain leaves much to be desired http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

I CAN walk and poop at the same time. I can I can I can.

[inmotion]

Thanks again for the bump back on this thread. I've really enjoyed and am enjoying it. This all started with Linny saying how well bred my horse is, many threads ago.....18 months ago. Since then I've been playing and learning and searching. I know alot of people don't put much into breeding, and except for the occasional not well bred but lovely horse, I think it is a good reference. I know Ravey is very well bred, he is by I Am The Game is by Lord Gaylord, who is by Sir Gaylord, who is by Turn To. His mother is by Sir Ivor, Who is by Sir Gaylord, who is by Turn To....and just for yuks, he also has Round Table and Ambrioix and an extra dose of Turn To and has the great mare Lavendula 4 times.
When I first saw Sir Ivor, I thought, Wow, Rave looks just like Sir Ivor. Then I saw his father and thought wow, He looks like I Am The Game. Now I know why, he's heavily bred top and bottom with the Sir Ivor/Sir Gaylord line. Not all TB's look alike. Rave is beautiful and as perfect a hunter I've ever owned (and I used to own Maestro). He has the most beautiful head and is big and round and fine. My friend just got a Not For Love TB. They are totally different, but both talented in the hunter ring. Her horse is the more tall fine classic TB. Rave almost has a WB quality about him. When I met her horse in the trailer at the last show and she told me his breeding, I knew he'd be wonderful, and he is. Thanks again for the thread, keep adding to it!
Mary