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View Full Version : How to fix over-posting?



Ozone
May. 12, 2010, 10:08 AM
If that is even the wording for it :D

I ride a horse that has a big engine behind. To sit trot he is a dream and his canter ranks up there as well.

I am having an issue believe it or not, post trotting him. He pushes me up and I cannot seem to just let him push me up to the post. I post with him which is getting me to post almost to high and too fast. It *feels* like I am 3 steps ahead of his gate while he is moseying around probably thinking WTF is going on up on my back! :lol:


He is the most rateable, consistant in gate horse. He is light in the bridle that I try not to interfere with his face besides light contact.

What is my issue here? When I am done riding I feel like I did a 2 hour stomach workout with a top celebrity trainer :D

I do not have this problem riding any other horse. I thought posting was second nature but all of the sudden it's difficult! Help?

rabicon
May. 12, 2010, 10:25 AM
Sounds like your posting from your feet and leg and not so much from your core and the horse. Think about letting him push you and close your thigh on him and bring your core toward your hands, not up and down. I had this problem for a long time until one day it clicked with my trainer. Push into your hands not up in the air.

RxCate
May. 12, 2010, 10:27 AM
Get rid of your stirrups.

Then you will be forced to go with his motion as it will be far harder to let yourself get ahead of him.

caradino
May. 12, 2010, 10:35 AM
Get rid of your stirrups.

Then you will be forced to go with his motion as it will be far harder to let yourself get ahead of him.

this.

posting should be more of a rolling onto the front of your thigh to elevate your seat out of the saddle, not a big thrust UP from your feet and lower legs.

when you take your stirrups back, keep that feeling of a very small 'rolling forward' motion.

rumblepony
May. 12, 2010, 02:17 PM
Get rid of your stirrups.

Then you will be forced to go with his motion as it will be far harder to let yourself get ahead of him.

Best answer.

There is nothing that will help you post core correctly, than getting rid of your stirrups, AS LONG as you continue to use your leg to post, NOT your knee, as seems to be common.

Ozone
May. 12, 2010, 02:26 PM
Thanks!

When I am finished riding him my legs actually HURT! I am not a p/t rider either. I ride 5X per week. That must mean I am posting from my feet/leg no core.

I will dump my irons. I admit I don't work long enough with out them.

It's such an odd feeling not being 'able' to post correctly!!

M. O'Connor
May. 12, 2010, 04:16 PM
If this is a very athletic, capable horse, and you are not a beginner rider, you might simply be having an issue that has more to do with super-elasticity than anything else.

We've had two such horses in recent years--both were harder to post to than anything else.

The remedy was to reel them in a bit, and make sure the length of their step didn't overshoot the boundaries. Ask for a 'little' trot with small steps, don't post so high that you are ever 'topped out;' hold a bend in your knee and post up slower and lower, keeping close to the saddle and asking the horse to accomodate to you rather than the other way around.

Once the horse becomes used to what you are asking and is more compliant about staying within the limits you've set, then you can ask for more length of stride, which you will be ready for. I found it easier to ride this type with leathers a little short rather than long...he was a big horse, and I'm a little person, but it was fine.

http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii168/MCL2057/MCL%20Eq%20Photos/?action=view&current=DSC_0053-1.jpg

rabicon
May. 12, 2010, 04:21 PM
Posting without irons will help butttt be careful you don't start grabbing with your knee to pull yourself up, you will start a new nasty habit if so.

VanEq
May. 12, 2010, 06:46 PM
Another thing that helped ME (may or may not help you)... I read in a PH mag AAAAGES ago, an eq rider describing posting as being a back-and-forth motion rather than an up-and-down motion... now, when I ride my super-big moving gelding, I always try and keep that in mind.

Good luck! :D

equidae
May. 12, 2010, 09:31 PM
Another thing that helped ME (may or may not help you)... I read in a PH mag AAAAGES ago, an eq rider describing posting as being a back-and-forth motion rather than an up-and-down motion... now, when I ride my super-big moving gelding, I always try and keep that in mind.

Good luck! :D

Somebody mentioned that here a while ago (might have been you?), but I tried it and it definitely works. I have the same issue with over posting to my horse as he has a super springy hind end.

Also, if my stirrups are too short I feel like I start to 'over-post' and I have to drop them down a half-hole.

SOTB
May. 12, 2010, 11:25 PM
Sounds like your posting from your feet and leg and not so much from your core and the horse. Think about letting him push you and close your thigh on him and bring your core toward your hands, not up and down. I had this problem for a long time until one day it clicked with my trainer. Push into your hands not up in the air.

I used to have the same issue and my trainer told me the same think - don't think up and down, use your core and push towards hands!

Bif
May. 13, 2010, 01:58 AM
If his sit trot is easy, he really shouldn't be throwing you around at posting. I've known horses who were hard to post because they were so smooth they had no motion (just as hard as choppy horses without stirrups, in some ways), and rough & short strided horses are a pain to look smooth on, but if he has both push and is easy to sit, you may well be doing something not quite right if there is too much motion at posting trot.

I agree with those that say drop your stirrups, without using your knees =)

Another thing to try is building a little "forward throw" in your hips from sitting trot to barely build into posting trot, if that makes sense, aka think of posting as next thing to sitting but a little lighter on his back with the outside diagonal.

Or thinking of it more like posting behind the motion but still with a hunter angle/seat, letting him do the work of forward push, without your anticipating and then end up being thrown a little farther forward than you intended.

Posting should be proportionate to the amount of thrust, although with a really thrusty animal, you need to hide it by incorporating some of your "sit-trot keeping your core still/centered" skills.

A great exercise to help build leg and core balance, with and later without stirrups, is "post twice, sit once", opposite of the way you usually do a diagonal change. Instead of post, sit, sit, post, you stay up in post two beats. It can be very hard to get the hang of, but will really point out your balance issues. For those of us who rode IHSA, this was a good way to change diagonal on a really hot horse that didn't like sitting, or was wound and anticipating and inclined to pick up canter thinking it was being called if you sat on him. Of course, you also became a master at sit trotting without really sitting on certain horses, too.

Good luck, keep us posted =)

Sorry, bad pun...

medical mike
May. 13, 2010, 01:18 PM
Problem IMO is you not being able to decelerate your body as he pushes you out of the saddle.

Dropping the irons just makes you "heavier" and while it may slow you down, it may not fix the problem...

There are several things that can cause this problem.

Do you have a video clip or serial stills showing the problem you describe?

Regards,
Medical Mike
equestrian medical researcher
www.equicision.com

JumpingForJoy
May. 13, 2010, 02:48 PM
Problem IMO is you not being able to decelerate your body as he pushes you out of the saddle.

Dropping the irons just makes you "heavier" and while it may slow you down, it may not fix the problem...

There are several things that can cause this problem.

Do you have a video clip or serial stills showing the problem you describe?

Regards,
Medical Mike
equestrian medical researcher
www.equicision.com

Not to hijack this thread, but this is something that I ran across this past week, which made me second guess if I am even thinking of posting correctly. I was trying out a new sensitive horse who had a very fast trot. What I found happening was that I got behind the motion occasionally, which would drive my seat bones into her, causing her to go even faster. I was having the hardest time deccelarating my body to make her slow down. I really felt like I didn't have good body independence. I've always thought of using the horse's motion to post. But using my core to try to resist the motion is something that was new to me and I wasn't too successful at it (Maybe this shows my original thought process was wrong?)

I am still not quite sure what I was doing wrong or what I need to focus on to make it so I have that level of control. I do lots of no stirrup work and also do core exercises at home so I don't know if I was focusing my energy on the wrong group of muscles during the ride. Are there certain muscle groups I should be focusing/working on so I have that level of control? Are there helpful key things I should be thinking of that will help me engage the right muscles?

rabicon
May. 13, 2010, 03:35 PM
You control the speed of the horse by your post. (well your suppose to ;)) You slow your post to relax and slow the horse and you push harder in your post to have the horse reach more. If they horse was really quick to trot and you were falling behind then you probably were not using your core and thigh as much as your legs and feet. Use your core and hold with your thigh. Pull toward your hands. If you are posting from your irons you will fall behind on a horse like this because you are overposting and staying up to long in the post. Learn to relax thru your leg and post with your thigh and core, not your knee though. Do mistake thigh for knee.:cool:

meupatdoes
May. 13, 2010, 03:38 PM
Another thing that helped ME (may or may not help you)... I read in a PH mag AAAAGES ago, an eq rider describing posting as being a back-and-forth motion rather than an up-and-down motion... now, when I ride my super-big moving gelding, I always try and keep that in mind.

Good luck! :D

Agreed.

I was going to say, "Think about moving your hips forward and back instead of up and down" but a couple people beat me to it!

:)

magicteetango
May. 13, 2010, 03:48 PM
Totally true on the back and forth, that's the only way I can do it as well. I have a tendancy to go up and down so I try to keep reminding myself!

medical mike
May. 13, 2010, 10:24 PM
Without getting into the discussion of what is and is not "the core", that is fact.

Also, by definition, a rider IS ALWAYS behind the motion of the horse.. What is really happening IMO is how far out of sync the riders center of mass is with the horses center of mass.

JFJ- Here is "deceleration" in a nutshell from a mechanics perspective....
Disclaimer-No one has done the study evaluating muscle EMG to this is best interpretation from related movements.

Horse provides the horizontal and vertical impulse at the pelvis so assuming the horse fits the rider (and that is a whole other discussion)....

The calf works to provide stability for the ankle by stopping the lower leg from accelerating forward and leveling the foot (which is why "heels down" is bad).

The quads, hams, glute max and med, adductors and hip flexors work to control knee hip and torso extension on the up swing and knee, hip and torso flexion on down swing.

Deceleration happens on both phases (unless you are slamming down on the horses back coming down from the top of the post) so muscle action switches.

The key is knowing how all the variables relate and how to test them.

Good Thread!

Regards,
Medical Mike
equestrian medical researcher
www.equicision.com

Ozone
May. 14, 2010, 03:21 PM
Thank you for ALL of your advice on my posting issue.

MedMike: I will be following your posts. I believe I could learn from you :)

I rode Mr. Hard Sit Trot and I worked hard on my posting. I have always been a back/forth posted, not an up and down and I can rate my posting slowing and excelerating the horse but still something is "off" with this horse! His sit trot is p e r f e c t, canter just as nice.

I dropped my irons and I felt like I was not getting to the root of my issue by doing so. He pushed me up right back into where I do not want to be. Also, I did a ton of half seat and I was strong at my leg but I kept on breaking and found myself falling onto his neck.

This is something that has NEVER happened within my riding. I ride numerous horses & ponies consistantly and this is something new.

Could my saddle be the issue? I wonder.

The horse is SO consistant in gate, full engine but he uses is correctly. It is fustrating I have to say. I video taped myself with two other rides this past week and I looke great IMO ;) This weekend I am going to tape this horse to see what I am doing.

I let my irons down a hole and I got a better post off of that.

BIF - I am taking your post into my riding withg pieces of MedMike and everyone else. Thank you

Let you know how it goes!

medical mike
May. 14, 2010, 08:41 PM
When you say "breaking".....where, how, when???

A video clip would help a ton!

Regards,
medical Mike
equestrian medical researcher
www.equicision.com

tbsrule
May. 14, 2010, 08:58 PM
Hi, I have a horse with trot posting situation that sounds like yours. He is a 16.2 Tb eventer, uphill huge shoulders and huge ego.
He can trot 15' strides that are impossible to post, especially after down from canter transition.
We had a good success controlling the posting by half halt/or more than one and slight leg yield before and into the canter to trot tansition.
Really good results.

Maybe that will help.