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View Full Version : CANTER cutie - I hope these posts don't get old! UPDATE: WWYD?



mustangsal85
May. 9, 2010, 11:20 PM
I keep telling myself that PA is too far away and that I do not have the resources to take on a project but this horse is just catching my eye. What do you all think? I do not have the best eye for conformation so I'm interested to learn from you all. Now, if everyone comes back saying he does look like a nice prospect, well, I may be posting from PA soon! Ah, if only.

One thing I like about him is that he is 8, so he may be more mentally mature than the others. Maybe that's stupid, but I like that.

http://canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2134:update-50510-price-reduced-golden-archer&catid=58:pa-trainer-listings&directory=343

CatchMeIfUCan
May. 10, 2010, 01:07 AM
I really like him!! And he's had 47 starts, finishing in the money 21 times! If he is indeed sound, he's made of iron. I bet he will be a big, thick dude when he's not racing fit. His dad is a brick house, and he looks just like him. From the little I know about bloodlines, his seem pretty nice too. If I was going to pick at his faults, I would say his hind pasterns look a little long to me and he would be impossible to find a saddle for with those withers/curvy back.

I want to go to PA to get him ;) but I'm a poor college student!

Hauwse
May. 10, 2010, 07:18 AM
I like this horse as well. I think conformation wise you would have to be really nit-picky to find any issue's, and with conformation a few minor issues are not the problem it is the one big one that usually gets you.

It is always hard to tell with pictures, but the only thing I can see that I would want to check is that he does not toe in bad on the right front. From the pictures I cannot tell if it is him or the picture, and it could be minor if at all.

In my experience you are correct, his age, combined with soundness is a plus. I have found that an 8 yo coming off the track is going to give you a big head start as far as new career development goes.

I have also dealt with Teddy before and she knows her ponies, and has a good eye for those ones suited for a new career in our discipline.

As stated his bloodlines are fairly impressive as far as TB's go. If we just stick to his 5x he has a number of quality hunter/jumper producers, they key probably being Damascus, sire of Napur, GP mount of Hap Hanson and Will Simpson. This of course does not mean he will be a GP horse, but I do know a lot of round about Damascus horses that have shown exceptional talent.

AliCat518
May. 10, 2010, 09:05 AM
These posts never get old! I dont have an eye for confirmation either, but this guy is nice!! Im not a huge fan of chestnuts anymore(I think ive owned too many, and need to mix it up) but I like the look of this guy! I'd atleast go check him up...or get a COTHer that lives closer to do it for you!

dauntless
May. 10, 2010, 10:38 AM
He looks like he's built a bit like my horse, and to my eye that means too big a shoulder.

I'm definitely not a confo expert - that's just my gut reaction. I'd love to have someone who knows more explain if I'm right or wrong.

mustangsal85
May. 10, 2010, 10:40 AM
These posts never get old! I dont have an eye for confirmation either, but this guy is nice!! Im not a huge fan of chestnuts anymore(I think ive owned too many, and need to mix it up) but I like the look of this guy! I'd atleast go check him up...or get a COTHer that lives closer to do it for you!

Oh you are just putting ideas in my head!!!! So tempting. And it seems to be a steal at $1000. Ugh.. what to do. I would be worried, sight unseen, buying a horse even if it was vetted because I would have no way of knowing how the vet check actually went, unless CANTER is the one providing the vet check? I have never gone through them for purchase before so I don't know how involved they are.

mustangsal85
May. 10, 2010, 10:42 AM
He looks like he's built a bit like my horse, and to my eye that means too big a shoulder.

I'm definitely not a confo expert - that's just my gut reaction. I'd love to have someone who knows more explain if I'm right or wrong.

That's sort of what I thought too.. now, if the horse has "too big" of a shoulder, what does that do to affect their performance and movement? Ugh, I took a confo class in college and don't remember anything from it!! He looks fairly well put together to me but I know there are some experts on this board. How does the big shoulder affect your horse?

NorthFaceFarm
May. 10, 2010, 10:48 AM
I think his shoulder matches his rear, but the barrel and neck look small. Barrel might look more right with more groceries, but I doubt that neck will ever fit the shoulder. Like I said in another thread, the ultra high level eventers I had in town last week were all built like that though.

mustangsal85
May. 10, 2010, 10:55 AM
NorthFaceFarm, can you elaborate a little more? Do you think his build would have a negative effect on his performance? IF I were to take this further I would want him to be a jumper and perhaps a lower level (Training, Prelim AT THE MOST) eventer.

CatchMeIfUCan
May. 10, 2010, 11:03 AM
I don't think the neck and barrel being thin should be a problem. Most racehorses have thin necks and that tucked up barrel. That neck has potential as it is muscled all backwards right now (like most racehorses), and look at his daddy-- I have a feeling that's how he will end up. (Can you tell *I* want him :lol:)

To enable you even more, I will tell you the (abbreviated) story about how I got my first horse. I was 13. My mom (completely non horse-y) went to put CANTER in her favorites as we just started looking at horses. She saw that a new horse had been posted and clicked the link and found a chestnut with 4 white socks and a blaze. Every little girls dream. She called on him that second and after getting a million calls, the trainer saved him for us and waited until we could take a look a couple days later. So my non horsey mom and me, a 13 year old, go down to look at a 3 yr old OTTB. At that point I was in love so we handed over the cash and had him shipped. No vet check, no trainer to look at him, nothing. I had him for 7 years and just sold him for 10x his sale price. He never had any soundness issues and evented for 6 seasons with no supplements/hock inhections. Jumped him up to 4'6" too.

If he speaks to you, get a good vet to check him over and send the cash. :D Maybe a COTHer from the area will volunteer to go see him?

ETA: just saw your post. Considering he did fairly well on the track, I bet he will be athletic and sound enough for your goals. I've seen horses with a lot worse conformation go Prelim. He has a nice eye, too, which is always something to be considered. I bet this one has a big heart and is a tryer.

NorthFaceFarm
May. 10, 2010, 11:12 AM
NorthFaceFarm, can you elaborate a little more? Do you think his build would have a negative effect on his performance? IF I were to take this further I would want him to be a jumper and perhaps a lower level (Training, Prelim AT THE MOST) eventer.

I'm pretty sure with weight the barrel will even itself out and look ok. He isn't long or weak looking there.

His neck WILL look better with proper muscle development for a new career, but I think it'll always be a little short and attached just a little "off". Without seeing him go I can't say whether his conformation has a significant impact on his suitability for your needs but I would be surprised if it WAS a problem. Lots of them are built this way, and are useful in the jumping disciplines.

mustangsal85
May. 10, 2010, 11:20 AM
You are such an enabler!! Great story about your horse. Gosh, I am so tempted now. I need to sit down and budget and figure out if I have the resources to be able to ship him here.

judybigredpony
May. 10, 2010, 11:29 AM
Conformation aside guys he's 8.
Hard wear on the joints even if he ran from 3-8 thats what 8+ starts year 1 race a month??
Concussion on the feet, longer exposure to pre-race medications and daily maintanace, only been what a year since the no steroid rule in PA.

Pull his complete form and see how often he raced per year, the length of gaps between starts allowing for track maintanace seasonally weather etc.

I would have to x-ray the ankles, feet n hocks for sure.

Mind wise he may not be as easy to adjust as a youngster since its basically the only life style he knows.

Being older isn't always better.

Not saying he won't be a rock of soundness or calm n easy.

Get a list of vets and pick one, have him verify horse by lip tatoo and ask for a blood drawn tox screen even if you don't run it vet can spin down and freeze n hold.
Make sure trainer doesn't know until vet tells him they are pulling a tox screen right now. Vet will ask for drugs horse has been given.

NorthFaceFarm
May. 10, 2010, 11:44 AM
A vet familiar with what you hope to do with the horse can give you a thumbs up or down on whether the horse should hold up. They aren't psychics, but the good ones usually know. Images of nearly everything should be a given for any horse off the track.

My other hobby is sports car racing. People never want to buy cars that have been "tracked". They think the wear and tear is just awful and there is no way the car will hold up long term. They fail to realize that most people who are into cars and driving enough to take their vehicle to the track for high performance driving schools, time trials, etc. take REALLY good care of their equipment. Track cars are some of the most mechanically sound ones out there. TB's aren't always that different. A good trainer keeps his horses in a good program, and you shouldn't be swayed from the horse simply by virtue of his race record.

judybigredpony
May. 10, 2010, 12:22 PM
Northfacefarm has good points

BUT he is running at Penn Nat' not Belmont.
They will do what they need to do to keep squeezing a check out of the horse.
The fact that he is still running at 8 says either he is stone sound, brings home enough money to earn his keep and or they have been able to keep him sound enough to use to as a horse that runs well enough to keep their start numbers up.

Do spend the $$ to pull his lifetime start record and look for gaps of say anything over 90 days between starts and see how often and steady he runs. Thats the "Tell" if he is sound and hasn't had to have time off to reslove issues.
Yes they get gaps for weather track resurfacing, and waiting for their "condition/eligabilites" and seasonal closures but Penn is a 24/7 365 place.

danceronice
May. 10, 2010, 12:58 PM
I just bought a seven-year-old coming eight in December. MUCH better brain than my previous horse who was four and gelded after racing. Quieter, long since got the post-gelding sillies out of his system, fairly unimpressed by noise, activity, things like the tractor or lawn mower, very used to being handled. His only real issue is he thinks retired means RETIRED, as whaddya mean, go forward? How about we just walk? Slowly? After this, I would be unlikely to buy a track baby again and would definitely look at an older horse. The vet at FL who did my PPE commented that if he held up to racing, there wasn't much I could make him do that was likely to bother him.

And this guy has a nice sire (Golden Missile.)

He seems to have averaged about a race a month, sometimes a little more, sometimes with an extra few weeks (like going Pimlico to Colonial to Delaware--I don't remember the timing but I wonder if that was when Pimlico closed, as those weren't claims). His race record looks like he's a decent runner, a lot of Starter Allowances, making okay money, and he's just getting older and less competitive. He doesn't seem to have the closing kick he does on earlier charts. My biggest concern would just be giving him time off and body soreness, as he's been racing pretty steadily. The trainer who sold me Lucky even recommended a three-month layup as he'd raced steadily since the winter season, and he thought the horse needed a physical/mental break. I don't see anything in the charts where Golden Archer's been vanned off or pulled up, either. He just seems to be getting slower, but overall has been profitable.

mustangsal85
May. 10, 2010, 01:12 PM
For those who have commented on his record and pedigree - am I retarded or do you need to have a CANTER account to see that information? On my screen I don't see a link to view pedigree and PP...

CatchMeIfUCan
May. 10, 2010, 01:33 PM
www.pedigreequery.com!!

Here's him:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/golden+archer

Then if you click on his dad and scroll over the little picture icon next to his name, you can see his photo.

Info can be found by scrolling over the little i next to his name.

I think you need to be a member of something to get the race records, but I'll leave that question to someone else.

Void
May. 10, 2010, 01:36 PM
You can buy Performance Records from Equibase. I bought my horses a couple years ago I think it cost under 10 bucks. Could have changed by now of course.

NorthFaceFarm
May. 10, 2010, 01:38 PM
http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorseInfo.cfm?refno=6523885&registry=T

http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=6523885&registry=T&horse_name=Golden%20Archer&dam_name=Phone%20the%20Doctor&foaling_year=2002&nicking_stats_indicator=N

caffeinated
May. 10, 2010, 01:43 PM
Do spend the $$ to pull his lifetime start record and look for gaps of say anything over 90 days between starts and see how often and steady he runs. Thats the "Tell" if he is sound and hasn't had to have time off to reslove issues.

You can get all that info for free now :)

You need an account at equibase.com, which is free, but then can do a search for the horse's name and see a complete record of starts (and the complete chart for each race)

Also, mustangsal:

unless CANTER is the one providing the vet check? I have never gone through them for purchase before so I don't know how involved they are.

CANTER is not involved in vet checks/PPE's with the trainer-listed horses. That's completely between purchaser and the trainer, though we can give you a list of vets, etc.

danceronice
May. 10, 2010, 01:52 PM
I use brisnet and equibase--brisnet for the pedigree/pp overview, equibase for the charts. You don't need to pay for either one (detailed reports do cost on equibase, but reading race charts is free.)

mustangsal85
May. 10, 2010, 02:55 PM
Wow, his sire was a $2M winner. Impressive.

MintHillFarm
May. 10, 2010, 03:29 PM
I love CANTER posts! I have 2 from Suffolk now...

I like this guy, though I am a sucker for big chesnuts. I have had several of his type off the track.

He appears to have a lot of bone and be very solid and he has a kind eye as well. If you can do a PPE, I would though I did not with any of mine.

He has something about him that says nice guy...please keep us posted!

TrotTrotPumpkn
May. 10, 2010, 04:10 PM
I REALLY like him--and he's not even my "color." ;)

I don't think his pasterns look toooo long (in the one pic they look long) and his big butt matches his shoulder--from what I can see. I think he's just tucked up and the legs are out so far behind the way he's stood up. His neck is a bit short, but more so, I think his muscling is wrong and his head is a tad big (making that neck look even shorter). Doesn't bug me for jumping/dressage...

I like his shorter cannons. He may tie in a bit behind the knee. I can't tell how straight his legs are from the pics (i.e. if he toes in/out).

I wish I had my own farm. Someone find out more about him so I can live vicariously through you!!!

I second or third pulling the race record. There can be some interesting info to be gleamed. I've used Brisnet.

My friend has an OTTB that raced until at least 8. He's stayed sound. He was a nutcase at shows/trailering though--that was just him. Luckily he's mellowed in his golden years.

Just looked at him again...I really do like him...mmm...probably cost more to ship him here than to buy him. OP, you better get crack'n! LOL.

mustangsal85
May. 10, 2010, 07:59 PM
Just looked at him again...I really do like him...mmm...probably cost more to ship him here than to buy him. OP, you better get crack'n! LOL.

That's exactly what I said! I've never shipped a horse before although at my old barn clients used to have their new horses shipped in all the time, so I don't know too much about it but in reading some of the threads re:shipping I think you're right! Somewhere in the $1000-$1800 range I would think from PA to MO.

Would you think it's a huge risk (even with a PPE, etc) to buy the horse sight unseen? I wouldn't exactly be able to fly out to see him and then fly back.. but this horse is screaming I BELONG TO YOU and it's very difficult to ignore. I don't know what to do!

lesgarcons
May. 10, 2010, 09:10 PM
First, my opinion of the horse in question: I think he's cute. I like how much bone he has, he looks like a solid horse. He looks to be a little camped out behind, and his shoulder has a straight look to it, although it may be exacerbated by the uneven ground.

Second, I think it's a huge risk to buy an OTTB, period. So, buying one sight unseen doesn't really increase the risk. My advice, and what I did in your situation, is to do your homework. Ask around about the trainer. Find someone with experience to go look at the horse for you and give you their opinion (I got soooo lucky with this!). Have the horse vetted by someone CANTER recommends. If everything looks good, buy the horse!

I haven't met my girl yet, but I had very little anxiety about purchasing her. But I also have a very pragmatic attitude. I realize that, like any unproven horse, she could turn out to be totally unsound or unsuitable for my purposes. I will be sad if she doesn't work out, but it won't be the end of the world. I think this is a good attitude to have if you're getting one off the track. If you are looking for a horse to hang your dreams on, you might want to buy something proven. If you're ready to roll the dice, get a TB off the track. :)

Also realize that you will most likely have to put in a year of time off, bodywork, shoeing, chiro, flatwork, etc etc before the horse is ready to even start in the discipline you want to do.

Third, if you need recommendations as to vets and haulers out of Pa, let me know. The vet I used out there was recommended by CANTER, and he's awesome and extremely cheap. Like, PM me for how cheap because I feel weird advertising prices this low. I am paying $440 for hauling from PA to Chicago. We'll see if I like these haulers, but they came recommended and obvs they are very cheap (The price wasn't as important to me as having a trip straight through and finding someone with good reviews. It just ended up that the cheapest hauler also satisfied the other requirements). I think that you will find quotes anywhere from $500 to $1200. Find someone recommended by someone you know and you should be alright.

Good luck, and PM me if you have any questions.

imapepper
May. 11, 2010, 08:55 AM
As stated his bloodlines are fairly impressive as far as TB's go. If we just stick to his 5x he has a number of quality hunter/jumper producers, they key probably being Damascus, sire of Napur, GP mount of Hap Hanson and Will Simpson. This of course does not mean he will be a GP horse, but I do know a lot of round about Damascus horses that have shown exceptional talent.

Damascus is my favorite thing to see in a pedigree....but Phone Trick is right up there and I loved Cure the Blues back when I was galloping. They were always nice classy babies :)

If I were looking (I do not need another horse), I would pick this one up in a heartbeat. He has a great hindend.

mustangsal85
May. 11, 2010, 11:11 AM
lesgarcons - Thanks for your advice. I'm in a tough situation because I have wanted to take on an OTTB for years and years - my old horse was one and when he came to me he was already basically retrained so I didn't put the effort into him that I would have had to if I had gotten him straight off the track. What makes the situation tough is that I just don't want to get too far in over my head financially, and while I could definitely buy and ship him here I am worried about the costs for everything you stated as far as rehabilitating him from racing form to a different discipline. It's hard not to just say I'll deal with it and go ahead and do it, but I want to give whatever horse I would end up with the chance to be successful and healthy and if it's a huge financial risk for me then it's not fair to him. I would also need to consider my options with my trainer, who has experience with OTTBs but does not seem too thrilled at the idea of taking on another to retrain (or at least help me retrain). I trust her and I think she would be very helpful but my old trainer would be the one I would trust more in retraining a horse. So, there are several factors to take into consideration here. But I am still working through it, I will definitely PM you with questions!

danceronice
May. 11, 2010, 01:43 PM
Just FYI--you do not NEED to spend on EVERYTHING lesgarcons mentioned. Lucky is barefoot (his feet aren't GREAT, and he does need a trim every six weeks, but he doesn't need shoes right now.) I don't have a chiropractor (I think there's only one for miles anyway and you have to haul to him). I don't send him out for training or have a trainer in to ride him. (With the caveat, I'm not aiming for a show career--field hunting ideally.) I happened to get a free massage therapist (a friend of the BO's) but I wouldn't have gone looking for one. The only supplement he gets is some biotin. Not all of them need massive horsie therapy. Some just need some time off and groceries.

Really, the biggest thing he costs is time. He's RIDEABLE, he's well-behaved, he doesn't do 90% of the things an OTTB allegedly does (please please please take the bit? Please? If I put something like a Waterford on him I'd have no contact at all), but he's had months off, is no longer solid muscle, and was never conditioned to do slow and steady. What would be light work for even the trail horses at the barn is hard work for him. Bending is EXHAUSTING. There is a lot of "boring" saddle time. No short cuts. He's much saner and smarter than the average baby, but he still doesn't know what he's supposed to be doing. He's learning, but it'll take a lot longer than a horse who learned to be a riding horse from the start. I got nuthin' BUT time, so we're good there.

NorthFaceFarm
May. 11, 2010, 01:59 PM
Excellent point ^. This is where the PPE comes into play. The vet can give you an idea of what kind of maintenance the horse would need, and what it would cost. Especially for his feet. With his kind of record, I would think he's got pretty solid ones though.

Are you in a position to own ANY horse, financially speaking? If yes, then the "extra" costs of owning an OTTB over something else can be minimal or non existent. Again, something the vet can tell you.

Mine wears front shoes only, and beside needing her feet trimmed sooner rather than later doesn't cost me any more to keep than my made holsteiner gelding. I guess we do spend quite a bit on Microtek to keep her from being over come by fungus and bald spots, but that has nothing to do with her time at the track :)

Like danceronice said, they just take up a lot of time. A good consistent program doesn't have to rely on an expensive trainer if you have solid skills and patience.

pony grandma
May. 11, 2010, 02:01 PM
Enabling here :D -- look at www.uship.com very easy to catch a ride for a horse here. Friends of mine used it and there are ratings, their experience was 200%. I LIKE him too. If someone can go look at him for you be sure to check his feet. That's where you'd have some heartbreak.

mustangsal85
May. 11, 2010, 02:33 PM
danceronice - Time is definitely an investment I am willing to make, and something I've always assumed would be an important factor in purchasing an OTTB.

NorthFaceFarm - I AM, but with careful budgeting. Which is why, all extra health issues aside, I am trying to figure out if it is something I can take on. I am leasing right now, and that's going fine. Asking price for the horse I am leasing is well into the 5 figures so that's not even remotely an option. I just don't want to be one of those people who jumps the gun only to find themselves in a position where they cannot offer the animal the best home. I don't want to be that person, I want to approach this responsibly so I'm doing my homework now before I make a snap decision. If the horse finds a home before then, so be it, I am a big believer in things happening for a reason, but if I can make it happen then I will! :)

pony grandma - You enabler, you!!!!! Thanks for the rec though. Stored. :)

mustangsal85
May. 11, 2010, 02:37 PM
pony grandma - is youship.com the same as uship.com? I went to youship and it came up as a temporarily suspended business, but uship comes up fine.

pony grandma
May. 11, 2010, 02:41 PM
yes I just thought of that. I edited. It's the ebay of shipping.

mustangsal85
May. 11, 2010, 02:44 PM
Got it. Thanks!

TrotTrotPumpkn
May. 11, 2010, 05:29 PM
You need to just get him so I stop looking at this thread. Then you can start a blog about your new adventures together and I can read that instead.

I have made a strict promise to myself and in front of friends and family that I am forbidden from getting a new horse until I sell one. I have a two horse limit.

But I'm weakening!

KBEquine
May. 11, 2010, 05:54 PM
You are such an enabler!! Great story about your horse. Gosh, I am so tempted now. I need to sit down and budget and figure out if I have the resources to be able to ship him here.

Well, I was the enabler for the COTHer in this thread:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254443

And HER CANTER cutie should be arriving at its new home tomorrow . . . from Penn.

So when you are serious enough that you're ready to write the check & want someone's eyes on this guy first, let me know. Also if you want vet recommendations. Or contact lesgarcons from the other thread - she can help with some of the information (and someone recently posted on that thread about having a list of haulers).

I really am an enabler, am I not? :winkgrin:

(But as I don't want to get a reputation around Penn as a tire-kicker, I will only look at horses if you are ready to make an offer now, pending PPE -- I don't haunt the Penn backstretch, so each visit is a trip. After lesgarcons' good experience buying from a Penn trainer, I had a couple PMs asking me to 'drop in and look at a couple' so I wanted to take the opportunity to say that while I'm happy to look at a horse for someone ready to buy, I can't look at every horse that someone is merely curious about.)

Whatever you do, good luck!

mustangsal85
May. 11, 2010, 06:15 PM
KBEquine - I should know in a day or so if I'm going to try to move forward. Thank you so much for offering to help. :)

INoMrEd
May. 11, 2010, 06:38 PM
Wow he's cute.

He reminds me so much of our recently departed Knowzington (Sir Knowzalot) who was sired by Napur.

If he wasn't so far away I'd be interested in him, too. After we had to put our dear old Knowzy down my husband made me PROMISE that I would only have one horse until we moved to our place in Lexington, KY, where we could have up to 20 on the farm.

Do you feel even more enabled, now? I hope so.:D

NorthFaceFarm
May. 11, 2010, 10:12 PM
I too may be able to check him out for you. I'm thinking of heading up to look at a few in the very near future.

I really shouldn't, but I can't help it.

lesgarcons
May. 12, 2010, 06:08 AM
I apologize for not being more clear. You certainly don't have to do all of the things I listed in my earlier post. I do think you should be prepared to do all those things, especially if you want to have a show horse. If you just want to hack around, I think you may very well get by with fewer expenses and less work.

If you get a chance, read PNWJumper's posts about bringing her OTTB along to be a Grand Prix jumper. I think she has a lot of insight into what needs to be done to these horses to help them reach the highest levels of competition.

judybigredpony
May. 12, 2010, 08:43 AM
That's exactly what I said! I've never shipped a horse before although at my old barn clients used to have their new horses shipped in all the time, so I don't know too much about it but in reading some of the threads re:shipping I think you're right! Somewhere in the $1000-$1800 range I would think from PA to MO.

Would you think it's a huge risk (even with a PPE, etc) to buy the horse sight unseen? I wouldn't exactly be able to fly out to see him and then fly back.. but this horse is screaming I BELONG TO YOU and it's very difficult to ignore. I don't know what to do!

Ask someone from CANTER to go put their hands on him and watch him jog.
Have him vetted and a tox screen pulled.
Tell the trainer if all goes well you will fex ex a check.
Any one of us COTHer's can go get and hold him until you work out the shipping arrangements.
I sold a horse to a COTHer last month off photo's and a vetting shipped all the way to CO she wasn't unhappy in the least.:)

judybigredpony
May. 12, 2010, 08:57 AM
I sent you a PM with a vets contact information....call me.

MintHillFarm
May. 12, 2010, 11:35 AM
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?profile=1&id=1829752129

Here is just one of the big chestnut geldings that I have gotten off the track...

Mustangsal85: go get yours!

mustangsal85
May. 12, 2010, 06:54 PM
MintHillFarm - that link didn't work!! Must see must see!

shalomypony
May. 12, 2010, 09:00 PM
I'm talking to Teddy tomorrow...and hint,hint she has an amazing huge black bay mare,three yrs old,great mover,great mind and unraced that she wants $4500 for.....I'm going to see the chestnut.

EquineLVR
May. 12, 2010, 09:08 PM
I'm talking to Teddy tomorrow...and hint,hint she has an amazing huge black bay mare,three yrs old,great mover,great mind and unraced that she wants $4500 for.....I'm going to see the chestnut.



I have two of Teddy's horses - Calling Kris and Moorestown Lady - tell her Laura says Hi and take some pics of that mare - I might be interested!

MintHillFarm
May. 13, 2010, 08:35 AM
MintHillFarm - that link didn't work!! Must see must see!

Are you on Facebook? I just tried and the link opened for me...
I will see if I can get another link for it and post.

MintHillFarm
May. 13, 2010, 08:42 AM
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv259/minthillfarm/Bill001.jpg

The above link is for Bill, one I had and showed for years...he did the first year greens, amatuer owner and adult amatuer.

The link below is Fred...he has been with me for 10 yrs.
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv259/minthillfarm/FH000018_edited.jpg

The 3rd link below is the horse I got this fall, Nightintheslammer. He will likely just be a pasture mate as he came to me with an arthritic knee (I knew he had it but took him anyway)...
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv259/minthillfarm/NIGHTINTHESLAMMERS014.jpg

So you see I have had the honor of these 3 lovely horses! I have good vibes about the one you selected Mustang!!

mvp
May. 13, 2010, 11:28 AM
.... and he would be impossible to find a saddle for with those withers/curvy back.



That strike me, too. Not a huge deal, but something that will be something of a PITA and will cost you some time, money and effort to work around.

This may sound nuts, but if you have some local COTHers go lay hands on him anyway, you might have one of them bring a middle-of-the-road cc saddle to set on him.

Here's my bet: The saddle will want to sit far back on him. His topline now will want a more or less regular tree, but his shoulders will want a wide one. Or the same ratio will hold, starting with a wider tree. This confo can be a PITA to fit, as saddlers haven't quite got it figured out, IMO.

If you will put a dressage saddle on him, you may have an easier time. If you won't keep him forever, I'd care less as saddling won't be your problem and most people don't consider that when buying. But just a heads up looking at his conformation.

TrotTrotPumpkn
May. 13, 2010, 01:04 PM
Any updates? Are you sending someone to check him out? Have you called the trainer? :)

mustangsal85
May. 13, 2010, 01:14 PM
I called Teddy yesterday and left a message and I have yet to hear back from her. I believe if I read correctly there is another COTHer going to look at him but not for me I believe they are interested in him. So if she gets back to me and he is still available I will try to pursue it further, I'm going to call again today and see if I can't get ahold of her.

mustangsal85
May. 14, 2010, 06:49 PM
I talked to Teddy today, she was very nice and spoke very highly of Golden Archer. Two things:

When I mentioned x-rays with a PPE, she said he is probably arthritic from all the years racing. How much should I take that into account? Wait and see how advanced it is?

I have mulled this over a lot, and I think that I would need to switch trainers, and as a result barns, because my trainer has had several horses off the track but I don't think she has ever started one off the track. She has started tons of babies but not retrained a horse completely. This being my first time taking one right off the track I would want someone who has had the experience doing it before. There is a local trainer that I am going to see this weekend who has done it a lot and if I like her I would be willing to move... just not sure how I would break it to the existing trainer.

Teddy said there is one other person who has expressed interest, and who is basically waiting on a new stall to be built in her barn before she picks him up. :-/ Some of you may think I am dragging my feet but this is a big project for me to take on and I don't want to do anything before I do my homework. Any advice you all can provide is welcome and much appreciated. I understand how these things work and I know if I don't make a move soon someone else will, I Just don't want to make the wrong decision!!

EquineLVR
May. 14, 2010, 07:41 PM
If you like him do a PPE and see what comes from it.

MintHillFarm
May. 14, 2010, 07:48 PM
If you like him then do a PPE and see what the vet and the x rays show...he may or may not have anything visible on them.

As for starting one off the track, if your trainer has started young horses, there is likely no reason to switch trainers. Are you satisfied with the way she handles them?

Patience, common sense, decent turn-out (with grass or hay) and time are the ingredients to re-training OTTBs.

This horse, http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv259/minthillfarm/Bill001.jpg
was one I claimed to run but he bowed...I started him back a year later and he showed all over including WEF, Washington and other major shows...

tbsrule
May. 14, 2010, 08:41 PM
Hi, can you please explain what "tox screen" is and how pulling it can benefit a potential buyer?

Looking for details.

Thanks.




Ask someone from CANTER to go put their hands on him and watch him jog.
Have him vetted and a tox screen pulled.
Tell the trainer if all goes well you will fex ex a check.
Any one of us COTHer's can go get and hold him until you work out the shipping arrangements.
I sold a horse to a COTHer last month off photo's and a vetting shipped all the way to CO she wasn't unhappy in the least.:)

judybigredpony
May. 14, 2010, 09:13 PM
A Tox Screen is a blood test that looks for drugs...Bute, Banamine, tranqualizers to name a few.
Bute given with Banamine is a powerful pain killer. Banamine also masks other drugs on a tox screen.
While they are race horses and given more stuff than our horses for various reasons if a horse has a high amount of these power agents in his system chances are when they wear off he will OUCH.
I always request one on horses I SELL as proof you are buying a clean health sound horse who is not on anything to enhance.

As far as Teddy mentioning the arthritus I think she was preparing you for his joints showing wear. If he is 8 and a race horse he has x-rays somewhere and that was very fair of her.

Who on here is going to pay $4500. for a 3yr old on the track you can't even sit on and see jump a cross rail??
In a re-sellers barn with some education she would still be as much.
I wishes were horses than beggers would ride:)....

shalomypony
May. 14, 2010, 09:20 PM
The three yr old is not "off the track",as far as she never ran,never got tattoed,etc.Pricey yes....but if a horse is fancy ,young,and quiet minded....some people will pay that.

judybigredpony
May. 15, 2010, 07:53 AM
The three yr old is not "off the track",as far as she never ran,never got tattoed,etc.Pricey yes....but if a horse is fancy ,young,and quiet minded....some people will pay that.

Ageed but few and far between with such nice horses going begging to be bought at $1500.

magicteetango
May. 15, 2010, 09:41 AM
Have to agree with Judy, there are so many great horses out there for next to nothing due to this economy, she'd have to be awfully special for me to think of paying that.

Mustang... KBEquine and her husband are excellent horse people. They're very honest, knowledgeable, and have an amazing eye. I'd 110% buy something they thought was nice sight unseen. Good luck, he looks like a nice horse!