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supaflyskye
May. 5, 2010, 09:45 PM
I have a 4 y/o gelding that I just started jumping ...like for the first time today.
Watching video clips and looking at stills of his first time over anything but little cavaletti crossrails, I am a little concerned that he may not have any natural talent for jumping.
He just steps over them in a large stride(we've only trotted up to the jumps at this point), which would be fine w/ me, but that he's so careless over them. He rubbed quite a bit today, and actually knocked the poles over several times - and we have heavy wooden landscaping poles.
I lunged him over jumps once a couple months ago, and he basically stepped over and rubbed everything up to about 2'6"-2'9", at which point he actually started jumping decently, and I didn't set them any higher than that.
Certainly I will be doing gymnastics/gridwork as we get more into work over fences - but do you think this display is indicative of his jumping ability in general, or is it no big deal to have a young horse careless over low jumps? Should I just hope that gymnastics improve his "snappiness" w/ time, and that he'll be better as the jumps get higher? Or should I be worried?
here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi5cXv5Cbxo) are video clips of him today.
Please share your thoughts.

Monarch
May. 5, 2010, 09:53 PM
All I can say is where is your helmet?? Especially on one who doesn't seem to get the picture yet of picking up his feet.
Put a helmet on and raise the jumps.
M

mjrtango93
May. 5, 2010, 09:54 PM
Those are tiny, there is no need for him to jump.

lesgarcons
May. 5, 2010, 09:56 PM
I think he's just a baby who has no idea what the hell you're trying to get him to do. He looks pretty big, and those jumps are tiny. With no prior experience jumping, of course he's going to expend the minimum amount of effort going over them! As for knocking the jumps, again, he's a baby. He's clumsy and his brain hasn't gotten used to the idea of avoiding an obstacle below while listening to a rider above.

There's a reason why most jump chute jumps are set at 3' and above, even for babies. Most horses don't respect small jumps, especially little crossrails. Believe me, I teach lessons, and I watch 30 different horses "jump" crossrails a day. Even our lesson horses who win h/j shows plunk along at a trot and barely clear the fences like your boy.

I think lots of people have this issue. Perhaps a poster with more experience training for h/j can give you advice on gymnastics and height to use to give your boy an idea of what jumping is about. :)

supaflyskye
May. 5, 2010, 10:15 PM
Thank you for the reassurance. I figured it was probably just a baby thing, but he is the first horse I've trained from the ground up myself, and I've been just so excited to jump him that this was a little bit underwhelming; considering how generally "zippy" he is, I expected some great ammount of enthusiasm(like my jumper pony puts the same ammount of effort in 3'6" that she does into 2'), and at least for him to canter away. hah. I plan to start taking him to lessons w/ my h/j trainer next month, so we'll see what she reccomends; I may try some bigger jumps and gymnastics between then and now, to see how he reacts.
Thanks again! If anyone has specific suggestions I'd love to hear them.

enjoytheride
May. 5, 2010, 10:19 PM
My specific suggestion would be to put on a helmet! You say he's clumsy and doesn't know what to do, why would you risk your neck?

I'd also use ground lines and trot poles to set him up. Those are more like 18 inches instead of 2 feet and some lazier horses don't see putting in the effort.

shawneeAcres
May. 5, 2010, 10:22 PM
YOu aren't setting him up to suceed here. What you need to do is to set a takeoff pole, 7 feet from the base of the fence (if trotting in) that will encourage him to step up and under himself, setting him up to jump, not step over, the fence. Also you need something that, if he hits it will sting just a bit, i.e. real poles in real standards/jump cups. Also a landing pole about 9 feet from the base of the fence on the landing side will encourage him to round his back over the fence, enabling him to actually jump.

equidae
May. 5, 2010, 10:43 PM
You should probably get with a trainer in order to help this horse succeed to his best potential. Working him with a trainer in a steady program is best.

In the videos, in doesn't look like you told him what to do at all. Just pointed him at the jump and expected him to jump in stellar form without telling him *what* he is supposed to do. So with out any direction or help from the rider, he clumsily went over it what ever way it happened to come out of the stride. He simply did not know he was supposed to jump! I think you need a trainer on the ground. He needs to be set up properly en route to the fence, needs your leg to tell him *when* to actually jump, then needs your support to rock back and not get ahead or punish him with your seat or hands. You can't just point his nose in the direction of the fence and not change your ride at all to show him what you want, and expect A jumping form. He hasn't been given much to work with!

equidae
May. 5, 2010, 10:47 PM
Also you need something that, if he hits it will sting just a bit, i.e. real poles in real standards/jump cups.

While I do think this may be correct to a point, I don't think the horse should be punished when his rider hasn't given him a remotely supportive ride so he can learn his job. He needs to know he is supposed to jump first off, he needs support given to him en route to, on take-off, and after the fence consistently before he can learn his job. I don't think he is being lazy and I don't think it's fair to start punishing him so early when he hasn't been given much of a chance.

Sugarbrook
May. 5, 2010, 10:49 PM
Once I got over the "no Helmet" i tried to watch your horse. I think you should know better than to have us watch a video without the helmet!!

I believe your horse will be a good jumper. Its his rider that needs to help him. JMHO.

asterix
May. 5, 2010, 10:58 PM
Wear a helmet.

Get a good book on progressive exercises. There's nothing wrong with what he's doing -- he is getting over the obstacle -- but it's not really teaching him how to use his body over fences. Placing poles will help a lot.

Please wear a helmet. Horses learning how to use their bodies and figure out where their legs are can and do make mistakes.

findeight
May. 6, 2010, 10:32 AM
It's not really a baby thing at all. He just does not know what you want and your little, plain brown jumps with no ground lines are setting you up for failure. They actually look like lope overs in a Western Trail class and he is doing a good job for what he is being presented with.

But, PLEASE, don't set up gymnastics, bigger jumps or anything else if you have never started a horse over fences before. You risk scaring him if you make a mistake at this point in his training, and mistakes are easy to make when this is your first attempt with a greenie. And he is kind of a nice horse to risk that with.

WAIT until next month...3 weeks. When you start with your new trainer, let them use thier experience with this type situation to guide you. In the meantime, hit the flatwork and you can work over some poles on the ground in circles or patterns just to improve rideability.

Jeeesh, it's going over it's first fences ever, shame for not wearing a helmet.

whbar158
May. 6, 2010, 11:27 AM
I thought he looked fairly good for first time jumping. The last horse I started was nice and calm but make a small X and he didn't have a clue what to do so he would just slam on the brakes until he figured out the raised poles were no different than poles that were on the ground. His first jump was quite funny, he trotted up to it just like when it was a pile of poles then he realized it was different slammed on the brakes then calmly walked over it, he just had to check it out.

Agree about the helmet, and I wouldn't set up gymnastics yet, he just needs a more solid looking fence. I think I would actually be quite pleased if that was a young horse jumping for the first time, he is nice and calm and doesn't seem bothered. Once he understands jump he will start to jump smaller jumps like this.

I do agree that you should wait until you have help from a trainer, the horse sees to have a good mind, don't freak him out.

NorthFaceFarm
May. 6, 2010, 12:53 PM
He looks fine. I'd be more concerned if he jumped 4' over it like he thought it would bite. I wouldn't "jump" those little things either, they look like cavalletti.

Agree with everyone else here, you need to give him ground lines and the benefit of someone who has started a horse over fences before.

Having sat on quite a few horses and ponies for their "first ever jump" - I would never ever in a million years choose not to wear a helmet. In fact, on a young or otherwise green horse I would never go naked up top even just for flatting. They might be good citizens, but there are going to be things they haven't seen before that are randomly terrifying, and its pretty easy to end up on your head.

supaflyskye
May. 6, 2010, 01:03 PM
thanks for the input. I really wasn't planning on jumping him again before taking starting lessons on him, unless it was really encouraged. Mainly I wanted to make sure that he was calm over the jumps at home before trailering him out; if he had seemed nervous or uncomfortable w/ the concept, I would have had my trainer come to my place to work w/ us until he was comfortable at home before taking him to a scary new place w/ neon coloured pinwheel jumps and etc(that is, her barn).
He's not in a regular program w/ a trainer yet, despite my attempts to have a dressage trainer take him on for the basics. I do take dressage lessons on him w/ another trainer, but she does not ride, and I cannot afford to take lessons w/ her every week(they end up being about every month). My h/j trainer is not "new", yes new to my horse, but not to me, I've been w/ her for several years now, taking lessons every week, but haven't taken my gelding to lesson w/ her, as I felt that she might push me to get him started over fences as a 3y/o, which I was not comfortable w/. I would in fact like to keep the jumps under 2'6" until next year.
Again, thanks for the input everyone - I won't be jumping him again until we're in lessons together, I mostly just wanted to make sure he could pop over some little stuff w/o getting worked up, which he quite clearly can, and was actually much calmer than I expected him to be.
Oh - I measured the vertical at 25" ...perhaps it looks smaller due to the tall grass? the ring needs a mow, but our lawnmower's in the shop at the moment.
I also appreciate the comment "he looks pretty big". :D He's only 15.3hh and doesn't(imo) take up a lot of leg, I always worry that at 5'8" w/ long legs I make him look like a hony. Good to hear that's not necessarily the case.

asterix
May. 6, 2010, 01:10 PM
I like how you are totally ignoring the (kindly meant, and hardly radical) many suggestions that you wear a helmet when working with a young horse over fences.

danceronice
May. 6, 2010, 01:10 PM
HELMET.

Especially on a greenie. He seems quite sane for a young'un, but you never know.

supaflyskye
May. 6, 2010, 01:21 PM
I like how you are totally ignoring the (kindly meant, and hardly radical) many suggestions that you wear a helmet when working with a young horse over fences.

Okay, I thought it would be less offencive to ignore but ...I'll do as I please thanks, if I feel inclined to put myself at risk I'll do so. On some days I wear a helmet(though typically not when it's 95F out, as now), and on some days I don't. I initially was planning on wearing it for Riles' first time over jumps, but it's mysteriously dissapeared from it's hook ...nobody in the house seems to know anything about it, but I do need to find it ASAP as I'll need it this weekend. hmm. I appreciate the concern, but it's really not anything you ought to feel obligated to distress yourself w/.

NorthFaceFarm
May. 6, 2010, 01:23 PM
Actually, we do. Every time someone puts a video online of a helmetless rider, its just another thing some kid will see and think is ok because others are doing it.

FineAlready
May. 6, 2010, 01:41 PM
I'm not going to comment on the specifics of the ride, the lack of helmet, or the obstacle. I will say that I agree with others that you should get yourself a good trainer to help you with him.

I will also say that he appears to be handling this little rail in a fashion that is totally normal for a baby horse presented with an obstacle such as this. You can't tell much about how a horse will turn out from their first jumping efforts. That said, there is a lot you can do to help them develop good form. I rode one once that was a terrible leg hanger at first (kind of scary, actually). With time and training, he now jumps just as tight and as round as can be. That is why I suggest a good trainer who is experienced with the young/green ones. He looks like a really cute horse - I think it is worth it to spend the extra money on a trainer so as to help him to his full potential!

kookicat
May. 6, 2010, 01:54 PM
Personally, I think it's incredibly selfish not to wear a helmet. What happens to your family if you have a crash and injure your brain?

Moving on- that jump looks really tiny to me. He's not doing anything bad, and is going over it nice and calmly. I do agree that it helps to have an experienced trainer on hand to help with the babies.

Heineken
May. 6, 2010, 02:11 PM
The only thing that concerns me about your video is your helmetless head.

findeight
May. 6, 2010, 02:15 PM
Okay, I thought it would be less offencive to ignore but ...I'll do as I please thanks, if I feel inclined to put myself at risk I'll do so. On some days I wear a helmet(though typically not when it's 95F out, as now), and on some days I don't. I initially was planning on wearing it for Riles' first time over jumps, but it's mysteriously dissapeared from it's hook ...nobody in the house seems to know anything about it, but I do need to find it ASAP as I'll need it this weekend. hmm. I appreciate the concern, but it's really not anything you ought to feel obligated to distress yourself w/.

If you want to do as you please and you are an adult? Go ahead. But don't ask for advice and opinions on a serious competition oriented board from those with thousands of hours more experience then you have and then get snarky because you got advice and opinion that didn't suit you.

With an equally large number of kids and beginners of all ages that frequent here, it does them a diservice not to mention this. Kind of acts as an affirmation and implies it's OK. It's not, especially first time jumping a colt.

supaflyskye
May. 6, 2010, 02:19 PM
If you want to do as you please and you are an adult? Go ahead. But don't ask for advice and opinions on a serious competition oriented board from those with thousands of hours more experience then you have and then get snarky because you got advice and opinion that didn't suit you.

With an equally large number of kids and beginners of all ages that frequent here, it does them a diservice not to mention this. Kind of acts as an affirmation and implies it's OK. It's not, especially first time jumping a colt.

really wasn't trying to "snark." I thought I expressed myself fairly politely.
anyway.
-
Thanks for answering my question, all. it's comforting to be reassured he's not for sure doomed to be a perpetually awkward jumper just cause he'd rather step over little stuff. :yes:

altjaeger
May. 6, 2010, 02:34 PM
Umm, she wasn't snarky. In fact she didn't respond to the no-helmets comments at all until pressed to do so.

Green Acres
May. 6, 2010, 03:13 PM
Well the funny thing is the title of the thread is 'would this concern you?'

Well obviously the no helmet conerns many folks on this board, me included. :eek: Then you add in a horse that has never jumped before and isn't sure how to handle it. What if the horse tripped over the jump and flipped over. It's very possible since the horse is not experienced jumping. Shoot an experienced jumper can crash at a jump too...

Coppers mom
May. 6, 2010, 03:15 PM
I agree with Wanabe. OP was much, much more polite than pretty much every "OMG Helmet!" post on this thread.

HorseLuvr
May. 6, 2010, 04:31 PM
You are guys are so anal about the whole not wearing a helmet thing!!! It is an individual's own choice if they choose to do so or not. Now, I agree that it is probably not a smart idea to jump a horse for the first time not wearing a helmet. However, lots of people choose to ride without a helmet when schooling at home and it is their own choice! I am not one of them because I always wear my helmet no matter what but I do not condemn others if they don't wear one! I know quite a few BNT's who never wear a helmet unless they are showing! In fact, if you travel over to Europe and ride it is rare that you see anyone wearing a helmet while schooling!

SimonandGus
May. 6, 2010, 04:54 PM
I see an honest, but clueless, horse with a rider who does not know how to support him. Please wait for you trainer.

rabicon
May. 6, 2010, 05:00 PM
Not going to comment on the no helmet thing because well your not going to listen anyways, so lets see if you actually listen to the other advice on here.

You have no ground line for the horse and it doesn't look like he has ever even been lunged over a jump. I always start a horse over ground poles on the lunge first with a voice command like up when he is in a take off spot. Then slowly raise the jump with the command and as soon as he figures out that up means jump I put that in the saddle over small jumps. You give him no ride to the little jumps. You are up there like a sack of potatoes so what do you think he is going to do?? You have no leg on and no cue what so ever, he has no idea what he is suppose to do with the pole. Your lucky he seems to be a kind horse and didn't hit the breaks and pitch you over his head or sideways. I'd go back to ground work and set up a jump chute if you can't do that then learn how to lunge over jumps with a command and then put that undersaddle with leg.

InWhyCee Redux
May. 6, 2010, 05:02 PM
I know quite a few BNT's who never wear a helmet unless they are showing! In fact, if you travel over to Europe and ride it is rare that you see anyone wearing a helmet while schooling!

Yes, a lot of BNTs don't wear helmets. However, OP is not a BNT, she is jumping a GREEN horse, and she asked for ADVICE.

My advice is to remember Courtney King-Dye — she was in the Olympics, now she's recovering from a fractured skull after having been in a coma.

As for the horse: He looks very sweet and willing. But, as the jumps are so low and unimposing (no wings), I wouldn't expect him to do more than step over them. I agree with whoever said to wait for the trainer, and have her get you started on ground poles and low gymnastics.

Midge
May. 6, 2010, 05:06 PM
After reading all the replies, I expected a disaster of a video. What a nice surprise to see a sweet baby with a relatively correct rider. You look fine and your baby is doing pretty much what you can expect of him at this point. He stays straight, doesn't change his pace and works out the jump pretty much out of stride. He is very sweet about putting his head down and getting right to the base and you certainly don't want to change that. Be aware the most awkward jump is the last one where you pushed him at it a bit. While your other jumps had a ground line, that one did not.

Jumping a box or a gate would probably help, but your poles will work if it is all you have. Or add more buckets under the rails to make a more solid appearing jump. If you want to encourage him to jump, perhaps try urging him to canter after the jump. Start him by cantering him over two poles on the ground in a bounce, so he is used to the feel of two obstacles in a row, then add a step rail in front of the jump. After he lands, urge him to canter. If he seems to get that, then add a landing rail. The rhythm of the rails will encourage him to jump the jump. I wouldn't do much more than that on my own as eyes on the ground are the best thing for babies learning to jump.

BLBGP
May. 6, 2010, 05:10 PM
You are guys are so anal about the whole not wearing a helmet thing!!! It is an individual's own choice if they choose to do so or not.

Of course it's an indivual's choice. But those individuals are usually thinking more about the 95 degree weather and not about all the people who would have to clean up (sometimes, quite literally) after the major accident.

But anyways, the horse is cute. And like most people here, I'm more concerned that you don't see how your whole set up and ride is causing the horse to do what its doing. Congrats on deciding to wait for the trainer. You and your horse should make a cute pair.

tidy rabbit
May. 6, 2010, 05:35 PM
I would say that it's not the jump / cavaletti or horse that is the problem it is the complete and total LACK of impulsion.

If you approach a cavaletti, pole, small jump with such a poor quality of gait, then of course you're going to have a poor quality over the jump.

The horse looks like it's put together athletically enough. Give it a good ride and you'll get a good jump, baby or no.

ponymom64
May. 6, 2010, 05:52 PM
Helmet police here:

Yes, it is your right to do as you please but PLEASE consider your family should that lovely little horse trip and dump you on your unprotected head.

We recently lost a family member to a head injury that occurred several years ago. An adult, yes, but chose not to wear a helmet: accident - 4 years in a vegetative state, then a steep decline to death leaving behind grieving parents, siblings, children and friends.

There are truly no words to describe how horrible watching a loved one suffer and die when a helmet could have made all the difference, JMO, of course.

enjoytheride
May. 6, 2010, 05:58 PM
It's an issue because the OP appears to be a junior first.

Second, the thread was about a horse that had no clue how to jump and might possibly not be suitable for jumping at all.

I'm not sure why someone who thinks their horse has zero talent for jumping a 18 inch cavelleti would be so stupid as to not wear a helmet. If I thought my horse was going to flip end over end because it was so untalented I'd wear a helmet on that day at least.

Third, if you decide to not wear a helmet then don't take a video of you not wearing one and then post it on a BB with a bunch of helmet police.

danceronice
May. 6, 2010, 05:59 PM
It's your head. If you don't care if you end up a vegetable, I don't either. But I would feel remiss about not saying it at least once. So that's twice.

Good luck with the baby, see what the trainer says. He's a clueless n00b right now.

FrenchFrytheEqHorse
May. 6, 2010, 06:03 PM
Helmet issue aside (and sorry, you opened up that can of worms all by yourself by posting THIS video of yourself. Next time, put the helmet on for the 8 second clip- it won't kill you), I agree with the person that said this looks like a clueless horse with an non supportive rider. While it's one thing to pop a greenie over a fence or two in order to see how it will react mentally, this is not an advisable set-up or plan for helping the horse learn to use himself effectively.

So does it concern me? Once, twice maybe- not at all. Three or four rides like this, though, would begin to be detrimental to a young horse's training.

SueCoo2
May. 6, 2010, 06:24 PM
It's an issue because the OP appears to be a junior first.

Second, the thread was about a horse that had no clue how to jump and might possibly not be suitable for jumping at all.

I'm not sure why someone who thinks their horse has zero talent for jumping a 18 inch cavelleti would be so stupid as to not wear a helmet. If I thought my horse was going to flip end over end because it was so untalented I'd wear a helmet on that day at least.

Third, if you decide to not wear a helmet then don't take a video of you not wearing one and then post it on a BB with a bunch of helmet police.

I totally agree with the above! :yes:

hntrjmprpro45
May. 6, 2010, 08:03 PM
With my young horses I always trot over a couple cross bars for their first time so they can "see" the jumps and then I proceed to canter them. I don't go back to trotting jumps until they fully understand that a jump resembles an obstacle that they must lift legs over in a nice manner (relaxed, balanced, with correct technique).

Of course these horses always have a full "vocabulary" of flat work under their belt and have had some practice cantering over ground poles. Be careful about how and what you jump. IMO, horses are fairly impressionable at this point- it's easy for them to develop bad habits. Bad habits can always be fixed later on, BUT its much easier to start them correctly. As others have mentioned you should work with an experienced trainer.

And about the helmet issue- its up to you to wear one or not but if you post on COTH, you will get lectured. I for one always wear a helmet, especially on greenies. I have been around the block enough times to have seen too many riders get injured from lack of helmet. Take it seriously, especially on an inexperienced horse!

Gry2Yng
May. 6, 2010, 08:14 PM
Actually, we do. Every time someone puts a video online of a helmetless rider, its just another thing some kid will see and think is ok because others are doing it.

While I don't disagree with the premise that one should wear a helmet while jumping a green horse, I do disagree with the fact that every tom dick and harry on the internet or on a horse for that matter is a "role model" for every kid that sees it.

Teach your kid what is right, regardless of what he/she see other people doing. If we don't teach children that you can't follow the example of every moron (not directed at the OP) they see in life, on TV or the internet, this country is in big trouble. In case you hadn't noticed, You Tube is biased toward the "what not to do" scenarios.

ETA: I also think the OP was quite polite in choosing to say nothing about the "helmet issue".

Fence is too small to get any read on the horse's jumping ability. Be happy he didn't spin and bolt, after that...