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View Full Version : How is Laine Ashker as a clinician?



faluut42
Apr. 28, 2010, 03:06 PM
There is a Laine Ashker clinic coming up in my area that I am thinking of going to. What type of clinican is she? Anyone been in a clinic with her?

LexInVA
Apr. 28, 2010, 03:07 PM
In before the lock!

CiegoStar
Apr. 28, 2010, 03:10 PM
I've heard she is just ok. Since she's pretty young she's not as experienced with instruction as many other pros. But I did not ride with her myself, just had some friends who did.

Horsegal984
Apr. 28, 2010, 03:10 PM
Hey Lex, Pass the popcorn!

ridingagain
Apr. 28, 2010, 03:12 PM
I took a one hour private flat lesson with her in the fall. I thought she was great! Very insightful about my riding and the horse's issues - Kind, upbeat, but worked us very hard - I was sweating bullets! I'd do another one in a heartbeat!

Kementari
Apr. 28, 2010, 03:12 PM
Hmmm, I was just thinking of having a snack...popcorn it is. ;)

poopoo
Apr. 28, 2010, 03:14 PM
I hear she's really good with stable management skills, especially medical....

poopoo
Apr. 28, 2010, 03:16 PM
Maybe you can do a two-for-one deal with her and Darren...... I hear he's available these days too!

poopoo
Apr. 28, 2010, 03:19 PM
Hey, you're out in California... isn't Todd Trewin out there too? There's your third!

snoopy
Apr. 28, 2010, 03:23 PM
Hey PooPoo:

:lol::lol::lol:

Samantha37
Apr. 28, 2010, 03:34 PM
I ride with her on a regular basis and I think she is excellent. I completely agree with everything ridingagain said... I always finish a lesson feeling like I have really accomplished whatever I was working on, and always with a huge grin on my face.

piggiponiis
Apr. 28, 2010, 04:15 PM
Other issues aside. I think she can be good if you are an experienced student. She doesn't have the range of communication skills that really develop over time. I'm not sure she would know how to handle it if you weren't getting something she was teaching. I'm not sure she has a range of approaches yet.

Eventer55
Apr. 28, 2010, 05:47 PM
In before the lock!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: You devil you. . .

JER
Apr. 28, 2010, 06:00 PM
She doesn't have the range of communication skills that really develop over time.

Are you talking about her blog?

LexInVA
Apr. 28, 2010, 06:06 PM
Are you talking about her blog?

I believe they mean she doesn't quite connect the dots when it comes to the teaching aspect of training because she's new to instruction.

LLDM
Apr. 28, 2010, 06:43 PM
I've seen her take riders XC schooling on a local course. This was several years ago. My biggest concern was that she tended to really push riders passed their comfort level. It concerned me, esp. with these riders and horses who were very inexperienced with XC. Hopefully, she has matured.

SCFarm

eventer_mi
Apr. 28, 2010, 06:45 PM
Are you talking about her blog?

:lol::lol::lol::lol:snork:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Eventer13
Apr. 28, 2010, 09:18 PM
Hopefully, she has matured.


Yes, hopefully, in more way then one.

I was just happy that she didn't flip a horse this year.

*runs off to hide from the mods*

enjoytheride
Apr. 28, 2010, 09:22 PM
I think enough other people did that this year :cool:

TBCollector
Apr. 28, 2010, 09:49 PM
Yes, hopefully, in more way then one.

I was just happy that she didn't flip a horse this year.

*runs off to hide from the mods*

She and Anthony Patch looked terrific on xc. From the cheering on the sidelines, it seemed like most of the spectators agreed. You should go watch it on Youtube.

KateWooten
Apr. 28, 2010, 10:00 PM
I thought she looked great - and was super-nice to her horse, constantly praising him on XC and in stadium. I got a neat shot of the pair at the oxer ...

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f135/joePony/Rolex2010/Rolex09JPG.jpg

staceyk
Apr. 29, 2010, 06:26 AM
I think the time to stop bashing this person has come -- let it go, guys! And take a look at her Rolex performance (go to youtube).

Horsegal984
Apr. 29, 2010, 06:50 AM
Anyone want to link to the aforementioned video? Since all I can find on there is her talking about him and dressage warmup

SRF1
Apr. 29, 2010, 07:38 AM
StaceyK,

I AGREE!!! I thought she looked great at every fence they showed her jumping. Very balanced and spot on. I never once got the feeling they were going to have a scary moment. I am also amazed because I think this was her horses first 4 star. Her horse looked extremely happy and she gave him huge pats after every jump. People can learn from their mistakes. ;)

NeverTime
Apr. 29, 2010, 07:50 AM
Sounds like Laine may have matured more in the past year than COTH has...

TBCollector
Apr. 29, 2010, 08:04 AM
Sounds like Laine may have matured more in the past year than COTH has...

TRUTH.

poopoo
Apr. 29, 2010, 08:30 AM
I think the donkeys are flying now...

GWH714
Apr. 29, 2010, 09:24 AM
I have been training with Lainey since last summer. I have to disagree with Piggiponiis. I am not an upper level rider and I find that Lainey is great at explaining movements and how to correct problems. She inspires and encourages me to do better every lesson. Lainey is very positive during lessons and my horse responds so favorably to her. She gets on him when she needs to figure out what he's doing and is so soft yet firm while training him. Her clinics here are always full and the riders always have positive feedback, whether they do flat lessons or jumping. It's time that we leave the past behind and open our eyes to who Lainey is now. I intend to continue working with her and know she will help me become a better rider.

asterix
Apr. 29, 2010, 09:35 AM
Count me among the folks who saw some video of her Rolex rounds and was impressed.

Kap
Apr. 29, 2010, 09:40 AM
I saw her at Rolex this year. Once I got past the dark lip-liner I was okay with her. :)

poopoo
Apr. 29, 2010, 09:44 AM
Just a thought for analyticial minds..... wouldn't it be so funny to find out that Laine is writing her own praises about her teaching methods here, under different aliases? They are, afterall, using all the right buzzwords...
Just something to chew on.

caffeinated
Apr. 29, 2010, 09:48 AM
What I saw of XC (the Hollow) looked wonderful. Thought her stadium round was absolutely lovely as well. :)

I did read on her blog (and will say that she needs to try things like paragraph breaks) that she's been doing a lot of Sports Psychology sorts of things, which might add a new dimension to her teaching. Not that I'd know, having never seen her teach - but I'm willing to give her some credit. At Rolex her love for the horse was practically oozing from her pores, it was really nice to see :)

caffeinated
Apr. 29, 2010, 09:49 AM
Just a thought for analyticial minds..... wouldn't it be so funny to find out that Laine is writing her own praises about her teaching methods here, under different aliases? They are, afterall, using all the right buzzwords...
Just something to chew on.

And also pretty easy to check. But having just done so, while it might be funny (funny haha, or funny queer?), doesn't seem to be the case.

poopoo
Apr. 29, 2010, 09:50 AM
At Rolex her love for the horse was practically oozing from her pores, it was really nice to see :)

I just threw up in my mouth, in fact, it is all over my keyboard!

caffeinated
Apr. 29, 2010, 09:58 AM
Throw up if you want, I sure was never a giant fan, especially after 2008. But she's the only rider I saw hugging her horse that way as she finished up her stadium, and she was smiling ear to ear every time she looked at him.

I'm not an eventing expert and there was plenty that made ME throw up in my mouth after what happened her last time at Rolex (between some of the things she said, how the accident happened, etc). There's still plenty I'd like to hear her say about that. I'm not sure we'd get along at parties. But I'm also willing to give credit where it's due and say I really enjoyed watching her ride at Rolex. It surprised even me because I admit to having some preconceived ideas/assumptions about how it would go.

Catalina
Apr. 29, 2010, 09:58 AM
It's time that we leave the past behind and open our eyes to who Lainey is now.

:yes: I have only met Lainey once at a show when she was riding a friend's horse, but I found her to be very nice and she took the time to ask me how my rides went. I believe she has grown and matured and I really don't see what purpose continually bringing up the past serves.

Kap
Apr. 29, 2010, 09:58 AM
At Rolex her love for the horse was practically oozing from her pores, it was really nice to see :)

"Oozing" is not an adjective I ever want to describe me. Same goes for "moist" and "turgid."

Sorry, don't mind me. Back to the original topic.

caffeinated
Apr. 29, 2010, 09:59 AM
hehehe, sorry Kap.

Probably about how I felt when I saw the leakproof panties at the trade fair.

Kap
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:01 AM
hehehe, sorry Kap.

Probably about how I felt when I saw the leakproof panties at the trade fair.

Are you kidding? Well, I guess it makes sense, because where else will you need leakproof drawers more than on the Rolex cross-country course? :lol:

poopoo
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:01 AM
Enlighten me, Caffeinated, on how you check for aliases....

fooler
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:03 AM
Can't speak of her teaching skills.

Was not pleased to see her entered at Rolex, however was impressed with what I saw of her xc round and she did have a lovely stadium round. She really praised her horse after the stadium round.

One can only hope this is an indication of her growth and beginning of maturity both as an individual and a horseman.

Her future actions will tell. . .

caffeinated
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:05 AM
Enlighten me, Caffeinated, on how you check for aliases....

If people don't hide the email address they registered with, it is very easy to google it.

poopoo
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:09 AM
And where do you find their Email that they registered with - in their profile, or somewhere else?

starboard
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:10 AM
Enlighten me, Caffeinated, on how you check for aliases....

same way we'd find out that you needed a dog collar last week. ;)

poopoo
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:12 AM
I found it. That still doesn't prove anything. Just register under some friend's Email...

LexInVA
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:13 AM
Enlighten me, Caffeinated, on how you check for aliases....

Most people, including the ones who have posted here as her students, use the same user names everywhere they go as well as the same "easy to remember" passwords because they are lazy brained. Welcome to the Internet!

caffeinated
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:16 AM
Lex, I am disappointed you did not find a way to use my last name in a sentence.

*mope*

Maria
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:23 AM
Count me as one of the people who was less than enthused about seeing Laine entered at Rolex. I was in front of the fence where she crashed in 08. I silently crucified her after. I wasn't going to watch her go this year, but I did. Laine had a beautiful cross country go and an equally beautiful stadium round. And it is VERY apparent the love she has for Alex. I'm willing to give her another chance, not that she needs that from me as she does not know me from Adam's housecat. Here is hoping her enlightenment continues and grows. I'll keep an open mind.

As far as her lessons go, I don't know squat.

LexInVA
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:23 AM
Lex, I am disappointed you did not find a way to use my last name in a sentence.

*mope*

I was going to but I couldn't really think of anything to say other than ""It's Utterly easy, in fact." to your previous post. It just felt too forced and cheesy. :(

Kap
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:32 AM
I was going to but I couldn't really think of anything to say other than ""It's Utterly easy, in fact." to your previous post. It just felt too forced and cheesy. :(

Yeah but cheese is an Utter's curdled offspring.

LexInVA
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:34 AM
Yeah but cheese is an Utter's curdled offspring.

True, but I don't think she'd take that well. :lol:

Kap
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:40 AM
True, but I don't think she'd take that well. :lol:

Yeah, but I'd rather be a delicious curdled food than ooze sugary sweetness.

Boom. See how I tied all of this back into the original topic? Four years and $30,000 of English studies pays off in the blink of an eye.

mybelle
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:47 AM
I think the time to stop bashing this person has come -- let it go, guys! And take a look at her Rolex performance (go to youtube).

Well said!

mustangsal85
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:50 AM
I saw Laine come out of the arena after her stadium round as I was watching the warmups and it was a very emotional time. I almost cried when I saw how happy she and all of her connections were.

I know Frodo Baggins was her horse in 08 who died and I remember there being a lot of commentary re: the fitness of the 2 horses who died but that's all I can find/remember. Can someone enlighten me as to why Laine doesn't seem to be the favorite of some of the posters?

SparklePlenty
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:54 AM
Mustangsal - i highly recommend that you search COTH for the questions you just asked. and then possibly delete that part of your post..

otherwise it could start a firestorm - there are NUMEROUS threads on LA.

:)

ponyjumper4
Apr. 29, 2010, 11:00 AM
Fitness was not an issue. Jaime (8 St. James place) was an older horse and had pulmonary failure...something that was beginning to become a trend it seems.

Laine, being 24 and immature at the time of her '08 accident, made some comments that not everyone agreed with. In some incidents I feel they were taken out of context, in some I could see how people could have a problem with it or take it the way they did, others, people just saw what they wanted to see.

She has grown A LOT as a person and a horseman and that is evident to those that do actually know her and to those that saw her rides at Rolex this year.

Her biggest mistake was speaking before thinking about exactly what she was saying and how it may be perceived.

LexInVA
Apr. 29, 2010, 11:00 AM
I saw Laine come out of the arena after her stadium round as I was watching the warmups and it was a very emotional time. I almost cried when I saw how happy she and all of her connections were.

I know Frodo Baggins was her horse in 08 who died and I remember there being a lot of commentary re: the fitness of the 2 horses who died but that's all I can find/remember. Can someone enlighten me as to why Laine doesn't seem to be the favorite of some of the posters?

She's always had warm fuzzy feelings about her horses, there's no denying that since she was raised that way. That's been apparent forever but her biggest problems have always been her ego, the values and attitude instilled in her by her mom which truly made her believe she was incapable of failure because she was different from everyone else, and the fact that everyone who should have told her "No" in the sport of Eventing had been instructed to tell her "Yes" simply because of the fact that she had some money behind her and a mom who micromanaged her life so that she could put all her effort into the sport, which is a dream come true for those who have the "big picture of the future" mentality. She wasn't the first or last young rider to get that treatment but her record as a young rider was not at all impressive and certainly unremarkable compared to her peers and did not justify the level of mollycoddling that she got from the people who were happy to help her make a name for herself as quickly as possible.

LisaB
Apr. 29, 2010, 11:11 AM
She interjected me flatting around once and gave me the wrong advice for my shoulder fore that I was doing.
And just last fall, I saw her go around training level flat out running her horse into jumps. Poor thing really took a beating on a couple of them.
From my observations and interactions with her, no fricking way.

FrittSkritt
Apr. 29, 2010, 11:12 AM
Fitness was not an issue. Jaime (8 St. James place) was an older horse and had pulmonary failure...something that was beginning to become a trend it seems.


There were also rumors that Jamie had colicked the night before XC, but they chose to run him anyway... but anyway...

gold2012
Apr. 29, 2010, 11:14 AM
:yes: I have only met Lainey once at a show when she was riding a friend's horse, but I found her to be very nice and she took the time to ask me how my rides went. I believe she has grown and matured and I really don't see what purpose continually bringing up the past serves.

I can answer that one, because there are a lot of high school bullies on here who seem to find great fun in bringing up and wallowing in one's past. Laine is a wonderfully nice girl. 2 years ago, not knowing us at all, she loaned my daughter a saddle because she was riding in one for a TR3D that was clearly not a good fit for the horse.

I am thrilled she had such a good time on Anthony, and hope to see her move on with him.

GWH714
Apr. 29, 2010, 11:19 AM
What distinguishes the winners from the losers is the ability to learn from the past and try to alter the future accordingly. I believe Lainey has matured and kudos to her for a fantastic showing at Rolex. The naysayers will continue to say what they will. The best response is to do well....and that she did!

RiverBendPol
Apr. 29, 2010, 11:52 AM
...Her biggest mistake was speaking before thinking about exactly what she was saying and how it may be perceived.

"Her biggest mistake"? Her biggest mistake was she ran the legs off her horse and crashed him into a stationary object and then said it was all his fault.

I am one of Laine's greatest naysayers and I will say she did a perfectly GORGEOUS job at Rolex this year. I watched her on the live stream all 3 days, with one eye shut just in case and I was thrilled to see how well she rode and how happy and healthy her horse looked.

LLDM
Apr. 29, 2010, 11:56 AM
I was quite relieved to see her improved XC performance at Rolex this year. However, the OP asked about her teaching skills, which is an altogether separate matter.


What I saw of XC (the Hollow) looked wonderful. Thought her stadium round was absolutely lovely as well. :)

I did read on her blog (and will say that she needs to try things like paragraph breaks) that she's been doing a lot of Sports Psychology sorts of things, which might add a new dimension to her teaching. Not that I'd know, having never seen her teach - but I'm willing to give her some credit. At Rolex her love for the horse was practically oozing from her pores, it was really nice to see :)

She has relied heavily on "Sports Psychology" for quite some time now. It's not done her any favors. I have worried quite a bit that it has interfered significantly with her objectivity. Positive thoughts do not replace skill and experience.

SCFarm

Toadie's mom
Apr. 29, 2010, 12:25 PM
"Her biggest mistake"? Her biggest mistake was she ran the legs off her horse and crashed him into a stationary object and then said it was all his fault.



Thankyou!

I watched her go this year also, and was pleased to see a totally different type of riding from last year. I just don't believe people really change their moral makeup, but acting skills can certainly be improved. Everyone was being watched closely this year and they knew it. I was also pleased to see several horses retired on CC that looked tired, and/or weren't jumping well. You LA fans can blast me all you want because when it comes to cruelty to animals, forgiveness isn't one of my strong suits.

Toadie's mom
Apr. 29, 2010, 12:29 PM
hehehe, sorry Kap.

Probably about how I felt when I saw the leakproof panties at the trade fair.

OMG! Did u make the mistake of stopping at that booth (like I did)? I walked away kinda grossed out. TMI!!!!!

PhoenixFarm
Apr. 29, 2010, 12:30 PM
I'm another one who held her breath when she went out of the box this year, and was pleasantly surprised at how thoughtfully and maturely she rode around the course. If she continues to make performances like that the norm, she, and more importantly her horses, should do well. So I give her kudos for that.

That being said, I wouldn't be running out to give her my clinic money. I'd personally prefer someone with a bit more life and training experience.

But, with another decade or so of rides like that under her belt, I might change my mind.

wolfmare
Apr. 29, 2010, 12:55 PM
I too was very happy to see what looked like a way more mature and responsible ride. Connection to the animal? Not so sure about that. To take a clinic? Would find someone else. My personal feel and opinion, which carries little weight, except to me...because you see, I WANT leak proof panties on cross country.....

SevenDogs
Apr. 29, 2010, 01:00 PM
I watched her go this year also, and was pleased to see a totally different type of riding from last year. I just don't believe people really change their moral makeup, but acting skills can certainly be improved. Everyone was being watched closely this year and they knew it. I was also pleased to see several horses retired on CC that looked tired, and/or weren't jumping well. You LA fans can blast me all you want because when it comes to cruelty to animals, forgiveness isn't one of my strong suits.

This X 100!!!!

Sandy M
Apr. 29, 2010, 03:29 PM
I've seen her take riders XC schooling on a local course. This was several years ago. My biggest concern was that she tended to really push riders passed their comfort level. It concerned me, esp. with these riders and horses who were very inexperienced with XC. Hopefully, she has matured.

SCFarm

WHy am I not surprised? Was somewhat nonplussed at Wofford's praise of her abilities during Rolex broadcast.

Good for her if she's learned something, but her learning curve did some serious damage long the way.

ohhthatgirl
Apr. 29, 2010, 03:59 PM
Enlighten me, Caffeinated, on how you check for aliases....

You can check IP addresses as well. Although I really don't think she cares to make fake usernames to defend herself. Barking up the wrong tree... and a rude one at that.

I agree that Lainey made a great effort at Rolex this year. Anthony Patch looked super happy and confident the entire way around. I applaud her for that and feel like she is maturing in her horsemanship. However, she's going to have to do a lot more than that to regain my respect. I actually saw Eighth Saint James Place die first hand. It was blistering hot out and he looked very tired coming off course. She could have pulled him up. I can still hear the screams...

Out of all the great 4* riders out there, I rather save my $300+ and spend it with someone else who has proven themselves well at that level multiple times.

CANTEREOIN
Apr. 29, 2010, 05:06 PM
Sounds like Laine may have matured more in the past year than COTH has...


I thought she looked great, as did the commentary on the pay per view. I, for one, was thrilled that she finished so well.

She made an honest mistake, paid dearly for it... move on...

SevenDogs
Apr. 29, 2010, 05:20 PM
I thought she looked great, as did the commentary on the pay per view. I, for one, was thrilled that she finished so well.

She made an honest mistake, paid dearly for it... move on...

By all accounts, she has made several "honest mistakes" that have had deadly consequences for her horses. They are the ones that "paid dearly for it". I am a big believer in second chances, but she has had several. I'm glad that she had a good ride this year, but it is going to take more than one or two or even three good shows to earn another chance in my eyes. After all, none of those horses have the opportunity for "second chances".

Frankly, I think it is important that we "police" our own sport and call those out that are riding and/or behaving badly. Laine has historically exhibited both, in addition to some really poor horsemanship. I hope she is getting her act together, but I will remain skeptical for quite some time and it goes without saying, that I wouldn't consider riding with her.

Coppers mom
Apr. 29, 2010, 06:50 PM
I can act like the classiest thing around my boyfriends parents, but once we get away, I'm right back to being foul mouthed and telling dirty jokes.

Anyone can suck it up in front of the cameras when they know they're being watched. I'm not going to give her a bye just because of one decent round.

I also think that all these posts about how much she loves her horses are ridiculous. I'm sure she loved Frodo too, didn't stop her from making a series of stupid decisions and killing him. Love doesn't mean you're doing right by the horse. Really, we've all been on craigslist.

She has a long way to go, in my book, when it comes to riding and being forgiven.

As far as teaching, I've heard she's great for those with a similar seat of their pants attitude, but does tend to push the riders past their comfort zones/talent level. I would spend my money elsewhere, at least until she grows up a little bit.

Kap
Apr. 29, 2010, 06:50 PM
I would like someone to direct me to where she addresses her mistakes, offers up some sort of explanation for them, apologizes, and discusses how she will avoid erring again in the future.

This is what I need from someone who has transgressed against an entire sport and against the principles of kindness toward animals the way she did.

If these are available on the internet, someone please post them.

SRF1
Apr. 29, 2010, 07:19 PM
OMG people!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has been gone over and over and over ad-nauseum.
Seriously, if you need to hold on to this bitterness in your daily life please spare the rest of us and review all of the other threads on this subject that have been posted in the past. Good grief, I could recite all of this in my sleep! :no:

staceyk
Apr. 29, 2010, 07:24 PM
I would like someone to direct me to where she addresses her mistakes, offers up some sort of explanation for them, apologizes, and discusses how she will avoid erring again in the future.

This is what I need from someone who has transgressed against an entire sport and against the principles of kindness toward animals the way she did.

If these are available on the internet, someone please post them.

I think we account for our sins to the Higher Powers (and by this I do not mean the USEA)

Kementari
Apr. 29, 2010, 08:21 PM
OMG people!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has been gone over and over and over ad-nauseum.
Seriously, if you need to hold on to this bitterness in your daily life please spare the rest of us and review all of the other threads on this subject that have been posted in the past. Good grief, I could recite all of this in my sleep! :no:

So, um, why did you open the thread? Anyone who's been at COTH for five minutes could have told you from the very beginning where this was going to end up...

oldenmare
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:27 PM
Haven't read the responses nor do I want to - I have things to get done but did at least want to respond to the OP's question.

Regarding Lainie as an instructor and only in that capacity - and this has been in recent months that I have seen this behavior:

She has no clue when to say when. Especially when it comes to overfacing a greener horse. She pretty much is going to "win the war" at all costs and if that means breaking down the horse, so be it.

I think she has no concept of how far is far enough vs too far.

She has taken green, unconditioned horses and put them at a row of fences repeatedly - raising the height of the fences as she goes. Next day, horses come up lame.

I know a number of her students who idolize her - I don't get it, but I'm not a fan of koolaid, either.

SRF1
Apr. 30, 2010, 07:53 AM
Kementari,

Ummmmmmm....... :confused::confused::confused:

I am not sure where in the world you got the info that I started this thread. Last time I checked it was Faluut42 who brought this thread to light and for a very different question then what this thread has turned into.

deltawave
Apr. 30, 2010, 08:06 AM
I think "open" in this context means "check in and start reading".

I have no desire to expend mental energy on the topic any more, but do find the range of reactions interesting. Which is why I "checked in". :)

JAM
Apr. 30, 2010, 09:17 AM
Agree. It's great to see she had a very nice run, but it is a consistent record like that over a number of years, not one event, that will be the test.


I'm another one who held her breath when she went out of the box this year, and was pleasantly surprised at how thoughtfully and maturely she rode around the course. If she continues to make performances like that the norm, she, and more importantly her horses, should do well. So I give her kudos for that.

That being said, I wouldn't be running out to give her my clinic money. I'd personally prefer someone with a bit more life and training experience.

But, with another decade or so of rides like that under her belt, I might change my mind.

Carol Ames
Apr. 30, 2010, 09:22 AM
GET A LIFE1

Shrunk "N" Da Wash
Apr. 30, 2010, 09:29 AM
Kementari,

Ummmmmmm....... :confused::confused::confused:

I am not sure where in the world you got the info that I started this thread. Last time I checked it was Faluut42 who brought this thread to light and for a very different question then what this thread has turned into.

Maybe he meant opened the thread up on your computer to post a response :confused:

One Star
Apr. 30, 2010, 09:40 AM
Sounds like Laine may have matured more in the past year than COTH has...

I totally agree, NT, and wish folks would find a different wound to pick at and worry. Time to let this scar heal...

LexInVA
Apr. 30, 2010, 09:45 AM
In again before the lock!

SevenDogs
Apr. 30, 2010, 10:24 AM
A rider's record is absolutely relevant when evaluating their ability as a clinician. That was the question asked by the OP. Therefore, it is certainly appropriate for responses to reference Ms.Ashker's past.

Kementari
Apr. 30, 2010, 11:00 AM
Kementari,

Ummmmmmm....... :confused::confused::confused:

I am not sure where in the world you got the info that I started this thread. Last time I checked it was Faluut42 who brought this thread to light and for a very different question then what this thread has turned into.

As others noted, open = click on it and read. It's pretty standard internet usage.

I actually think the person who started the thread has gotten a good range of responses, and it's stayed rather more sane than I would have predicted from past experience.

Kap
Apr. 30, 2010, 01:17 PM
One great run at Rolex is an excellent start, but it's the pro's who put in safe, respectable rides on a regular basis at the top levels who get the respect of the masses. She should keep it up and she will be on her way to more success, at least as far as a reputation. No idea if she cares about her general reputation, and in fact she may not. Staceyk, I asked for someone to supply a record of a public apology and/or explanation by her because I'm saying that is what maybe would change my mind a little. I'm a forgiving person by nature, but I'm not a pushover. I realize she owes me nothing, I'm simply explaining that, if she wanted to change my mind, it's what she'd have to start by doing. It's all hypothetical, my dear :)

staceyk
Apr. 30, 2010, 01:29 PM
Thanks Kap, I see what you're saying.

I'm kind of an oldster (age 48) on this list, and when I look back at the abysmally stupid choices I made in my 20s the guilt and regret hits me like a wave. I wasn't in a position to inflict damage on horse or human but that was just luck.

I'm looking at the situation from that vantage point.

Kap
Apr. 30, 2010, 03:41 PM
Thanks Kap, I see what you're saying.

I'm kind of an oldster (age 48) on this list, and when I look back at the abysmally stupid choices I made in my 20s the guilt and regret hits me like a wave. I wasn't in a position to inflict damage on horse or human but that was just luck.

I'm looking at the situation from that vantage point.

This is a good point. Whether you forgive her or not, you have to admit, we all f**k up royally once in a while, we're just not all lucky (unlucky?) enough to be Rolex-level riders whose F-ups are the subject of massive public scrutiny.

Sandy M
Apr. 30, 2010, 03:46 PM
I think we account for our sins to the Higher Powers (and by this I do not mean the USEA)

And that's an excuse for not apologizing in the real world in which we exist?

Ummmm...no.

fooler
Apr. 30, 2010, 04:56 PM
Thanks Kap, I see what you're saying.

I'm kind of an oldster (age 48) on this list, and when I look back at the abysmally stupid choices I made in my 20s the guilt and regret hits me like a wave. I wasn't in a position to inflict damage on horse or human but that was just luck.

I'm looking at the situation from that vantage point.

I am older than you (closing rather quickly on 56 :eek:). My vantage point is that when I screwed up there were parents, coaches, mentors and friends who made me aware and helped me not make the same mistakes. . .too many times. Of course there were always new mistakes to make ;)

In this case, LA 'appears' to have missed the benefit the same guiding souls on her way up in this sport. In 2008 she very nearly lost her life in the fall that killed Frodo. What the collective "WE" have not heard is any response from her indicating she understood her role and responsibility in the fall. As a result we question what lesson she may have learned.
Again, I saw part of her XC round which appeared to go well and her stadium run was lovely. So I will consider that a good start on the road to maturity and responsibility. As the saying goes a long journey starts with one step, she is only beginning that long journey. . .

Jo
Apr. 30, 2010, 05:22 PM
I'm apparently impaired - can someone post the YouTube links? I found one of her dressage warm up and one of her interview but nothing with her XC or stadium rounds.

I was there in 08 and would like to lessen the sour taste in my mouth if at all possible.

Eventer55
May. 1, 2010, 08:44 AM
"I am older than you (closing rather quickly on 56 :eek:). My vantage point is that when I screwed up there were parents, coaches, mentors and friends who made me aware and helped me not make the same mistakes. . .too many times. Of course there were always new mistakes to make ;)

In this case, LA 'appears' to have missed the benefit the same guiding souls on her way up in this sport. In 2008 she very nearly lost her life in the fall that killed Frodo. What the collective "WE" have not heard is any response from her indicating she understood her role and responsibility in the fall. As a result we question what lesson she may have learned."

Really good point Fooler, I too am of your age and I really wish I had had some, or any benefit of guidance. Maybe this thread would be more appropriately directed at her mother or father. Without early direction some of us continue to bumble through life collecting enemies and racking up big mistakes.

I found a guiding light in my husband who is my biggest supporter in the horses and life, thank God I landed in his embrace.

annikak
May. 1, 2010, 09:36 AM
I thought she looked great - and was super-nice to her horse, constantly praising him on XC and in stadium. I got a neat shot of the pair at the oxer ...

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f135/joePony/Rolex2010/Rolex09JPG.jpg

GREAT pic! WOW!

I have never been a huge LA fan after '08, but...her ride at Rolex this year was really nice, and so...

I agree, let it rest already. Age/wisdom only comes with time. She owes her explanations to her horse and her family, not to us CoTH'ers that might need to grow up a bit ourselves. I know that I really probably own lots of "OMG! I did that!?" comments to people, but thankfully, none were public nor really risked my life or an animals.

I am older, but have learned from a lot of people over time. Age is not the real issue- experience is.

LLDM
May. 1, 2010, 10:40 AM
Her past performance is one thing. Her current performance is another. But the OP asked about her teaching/clinic skills.

Riding skills are not always transferable into teaching skills. And vice versa. Some do both well, some neither. In my experience teaching skills take longer to develop than riding skills. I've never understood why people assume great riders make great teachers. I often find that great teachers make great teachers if they understand horses well.

SCFarm

Carol Ames
May. 1, 2010, 04:10 PM
I'm kind of an oldster (age 48) on this list, and when I look back at the abysmally stupid choices I made in my 20s the guilt and regret hits me like a wave. I wasn't in a position to inflict damage on horse or human but that was just luck.

Carol Ames
May. 1, 2010, 04:17 PM
As I recall her coach high fived her and told her to "go for it" that she could win it all: and make the team; has he indicated his "guilt in this? Her parents are not :no:professionals, her coach is:yes:

Carol Ames
May. 1, 2010, 04:24 PM
Does anyone here have ANY idea :confused:what it requires to go back out on XC, anywhere after a fall like she had?:eek: not to mention in front of the cameras, commentators and snipers on this forum?:mad:

eventer73
May. 4, 2010, 05:55 PM
look at pics of her students riding in her clinics. Thats your answer.

Shrapnel
May. 4, 2010, 08:41 PM
In again before the lock!

Me too! ;)

Laine Ashker as a clinician..... :lol: :lol:

I needed a good laugh today.

eventingcpa
May. 5, 2010, 10:36 AM
Whether its Lanie or someone else, my best advice for the OP on any clinic is to go and audit first then ride. The only way you will ever know if it works for you is to form you own opinion. different people feel differently and expect different things from instructors and as such, while their opinions should be taken into consideration and are very valid, take them with a grain of salt and audit first. That's what my instructor always tells me to do, go watch, then decide if that person fits your learning style and riding needs. Different people need different things from an instructor and you may find she works well for you.

best of luck

Shrapnel
May. 5, 2010, 10:50 AM
Yes, hopefully, in more way then one.

I was just happy that she didn't flip a horse this year.

*runs off to hide from the mods*

This!

gully's pilot
May. 5, 2010, 11:02 AM
As a middle-aged amateur, I look to my instructors for guidance that will help keep me safe. I hope to ride at Prelim someday, but I won't do it until the instructors I trust tell me that I'm ready. I've taken clinics that I felt were both good and bad, and my current feeling is that I will no longer take from anyone whose judgement I question for any reason at all. If Famous Rider X tells me to do something stupid and I do it, it'll be my butt in the hospital, not FRX's--and I admit that I can't always recognize stupid when I see it.

So. Laine rode stupidly and her horse died. That's one strike against her. I've made mistakes, we all have--but that was a biggie. On the other hand, it was the sort of mistake that can happen in an instant--go around the corner, don't slow down, bam.

Then she gave a large number of interviews to many different outlets all saying the same thing: that she would have ridden in the Olympics if her horse hadn't died. None of the interviews implied in any way that she bore or took on any responsiblity for the horse's death. Every one strongly implied that she was a otherwise a lock for the Team. This is simply not true. The short list came out after Rolex. Perhaps she would have been under strong consideration if Frodo survived, but he didn't, and anyway the general public will never know. She would have had to finish xc, do well in sj, and come out with a sound horse--all difficult.

The interviews were not a mistake made in a moment. They took place over a considerable span of time and involved long interviews, not sound bites. In my mind they showed a horrific lack of judgement.

Laine may well have matured a great deal; she may become an excellent trainer. But I will not take a clinic or lesson from her until I can see for sure that her judgement is greatly improved. My own safety depends on it.

Shrapnel
May. 5, 2010, 11:03 AM
There were also rumors that Jamie had colicked the night before XC, but they chose to run him anyway... but anyway...

That wasn't just a rumor. He did colick. That was about the time I lost all respect for Laine Ashker.

gully's pilot
May. 5, 2010, 11:07 AM
I just wrote a long detailed thoughtful post that my computer chewed up and swallowed. ARRGH.

In short, my feelings are this:

my safety as a middle-aged amateur depends in part on the quality and trustworthiness of the instruction I recieve. I don't know enough to evaluate everythng my instructors tell me to do, so I need instructors whose judgement I trust entirely.

Laine's riding mistake may have been only a momentary error, though the consequences were tragic. Her subsequent handling of the incident was not momentary but showed a colossal lack of judgement. She repeatedly gave interviews saying that she would have been on the Olympic team if her horse hadn't died. This is not true. The short list was published after Rolex. Frodo hadn't finished xc, done sj, or been evaluated for soundness--no one knows what might have been. She never in the interviews took on any resposibility for the accident--as I recall, it was a lot of "poor me, my dreams were snatched from me."

She may have greatly matured; she may be much wiser now. But for my own safety I would not ride with her until she has proved that her judgement skills are rock-solid. For me that will take years.

gully's pilot
May. 5, 2010, 11:08 AM
Oh, crap, the other post made it! Oh, well--read them both, or just one. They say essentially the same thing. Sorry, guys!

SevenDogs
May. 5, 2010, 11:32 AM
Gulley: Your thoughts were worthy of two posts. Well said! :)

NCRider
May. 5, 2010, 11:34 AM
If true re: colic, he wouldn't be the first or last horse to have a non-surgical colic before a big 3 day and still run. I've always thought Laine was no better or worse than your average young rider with serious team aspirations. Or maybe even your average rider with team aspirations. Go read Pippa Funnel's biography one day. It's a different world up there and I don't thinks she's that different than a lot of her peers, thus I don't judge. If JW says she's matured a lot as a rider, then I'll trust his judgment. As for taking a clinic with her, I agree that the best way to tell is to go watch one and see if her style works for you.

Quinn
May. 5, 2010, 11:37 AM
gully's pilot, I was going to say the same thing as SevenDogs. Well said.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

bosox
May. 5, 2010, 01:20 PM
But for my own safety I would not ride with her until she has proved that her judgement skills are rock-solid.

I guess people will have to judge on their own-just how important the trainer's judgement is-for the sake of their own safety.

So very well said Gully

faluut42
May. 5, 2010, 01:21 PM
The clinic is $75 for a lesson and might go down if more people sign up.

Im not a huge fan of LA either but I have had enough lessons/clinics with trainers that i know i will walk away with some new knowledge. Even if it is the "well that obviously didnt work" kind. (my mare is definatly the trial and error type).

the clinic is coming up in a few weeks, if at the time to sign up i have $75 extra lying around (not likely) i will sign up. if not ill audit and check it out.

europa
May. 5, 2010, 03:25 PM
FLAMESUIT ON

I suggest we start a thread on potential names for the next LA mount.....ok...I will go first.

How bout......RAMMING SPEED

Now now isn't this fun?

It is a joke people!! HA HA

RiverBendPol
May. 5, 2010, 03:43 PM
FLAMESUIT ON

I suggest we start a thread on potential names for the next LA mount.....ok...I will go first.

How bout......RAMMING SPEED

Now now isn't this fun?

It is a joke people!! HA HA

Maybe you think it is a joke, I don't. I think it is in reeeeeeally poor taste. Important note, I am NOT a LA fan, quite the opposite, in fact. I just want to gag when I read your post.
Please, folks, don't pick up on this....Mods? Please?

CANTEREOIN
May. 5, 2010, 03:44 PM
FLAMESUIT ON

I suggest we start a thread on potential names for the next LA mount.....ok...I will go first.

How bout......RAMMING SPEED

Now now isn't this fun?

It is a joke people!! HA HA

Not necessary... not necessary! On so many levels... this is wrong... nothing funny about it from the horses perspective, from a people perspective...

europa
May. 5, 2010, 04:04 PM
Oh come on! Everyone wants to dance around the issue. My only gripe with LA is the fact that she didn't seem to have any empathy for her horses. She always made time and as a rookie and amateur I would think it would lend itself to caution. Maybe she has learned her lesson. She sure presented a nice horse at Rolex this year and rode well.

However, the past is the past and the horses are gone.....being touchy and sensitive about me joking now is not a player. Water under the bridge.

Not to mention the subject has already come up and there is no denying what happened. I don't care for her but I don't have a personal vendetta against her either. I am sure there are many like her out that would trade their horses for their success. IMHO

We have as many in HJ land that will do the same type of thing. Spikes in the boots and what not. Maybe their competitive nature gets the best of them. I have no idea as it is not the way I treat my horses.

Shrapnel
May. 5, 2010, 05:22 PM
Hey RiverbendPol and CANTEREOIN,

Get over it. It was a joke and I thought it was rather funny! :lol:

Geez.....

Coppers mom
May. 5, 2010, 05:26 PM
I don't think it's funny that we feel like she's still a danger, and could possibly kill another horse.

Eventer55
May. 5, 2010, 06:23 PM
Oh come on! Everyone wants to dance around the issue. My only gripe with LA is the fact that she didn't seem to have any empathy for her horses. She always made time and as a rookie and amateur I would think it would lend itself to caution. Maybe she has learned her lesson. She sure presented a nice horse at Rolex this year and rode well.

However, the past is the past and the horses are gone.....being touchy and sensitive about me joking now is not a player. Water under the bridge.

Not to mention the subject has already come up and there is no denying what happened. I don't care for her but I don't have a personal vendetta against her either. I am sure there are many like her out that would trade their horses for their success. IMHO

We have as many in HJ land that will do the same type of thing. Spikes in the boots and what not. Maybe their competitive nature gets the best of them. I have no idea as it is not the way I treat my horses.

I actually care what goes on in other sports as well as my own, but since eventing is my sport I care even more. I would not train with a person that would trade their horse (dead) for sucess.

And the fact that the "horses are gone" is a huge deal to me. Unfortunately by her actions past and present, Laine doesn't seem to be addressing it in a compassionate manner. I hope my sport is not largely represented by the above post. I may be in the wrong sport, but I don't think so.

NRB
May. 5, 2010, 10:14 PM
Lainy has a reputation for going to fast on XC in other instances than Rolex 2008. Had Rolex 2008 never ever happened I'd still not clinic with her. I've had plenty of opportunities to, I live @ an hour away from her.

looseringsnaffle
May. 5, 2010, 11:32 PM
I know I'm a nobody here, but it does kind of make me chuckle when people post asking for advice on clinicians.

If the person is well known, and you are still having to ask a group of internet buddies if you "should or shouldn't" clinic with them, maybe the answer is "probably not." ESPECIALLY if all you have to do is search the CoTH forums to find a decent answer.

Personally, I'm not going to clinic with someone who doesn't already have a stellar clinic or lesson reputation. If I have to ask the internetz outside of that clinician's personal website, it's probably not worth my time or money to ride in it. Audit, maybe. But ride? Ehhh....

Of course, if it's a lesser-known person, then maybe I would feel differently. Because there are certainly teachers out there who teach VERY WELL, but might not have an Olympic medal. Doesn't mean that they don't have
something to offer, though.

I mean, maybe I'm lucky to have friends in all three seats (eventing, dressage, H/J) and have gotten a lot of feedback (from them) about a variety of clinicians. Maybe I would feel differently if I were isolated with a very small base of "horsey" connections.


Just my 2 cents. That's all.

Coppers mom
May. 6, 2010, 12:14 AM
Why should people not ask? Is it really better to pay $400 and find out that Mr. 15 time Olympic rider is just a complete flop as a teacher than figure it out for free? And if someone is from way outside the area, it's less likely that the grapevine will work for you when trying to decide to clinic or not.

You never know until you ask. You've gotta figure it out some way, and it's better to do it without dropping a load of cash first.

gully's pilot
May. 6, 2010, 06:20 AM
I live in the middle of Nowheresville. Regular instructors are thin on the ground here (I sometimes travel 5 hours one-way for good lessons) and the grapevine doesn't exist. I mean, us four local eventers will compare notes, but it doesn't do us much good. And I've clinicked or taken lessons from a number of well-known upper-level riders--some were excellent, some were why I instituted my "no training until you know if they show good judgement" rule.

That said, how's Becky Holder as a clinician? Maybe I'd better start a new thread....

tlw
May. 6, 2010, 08:48 AM
Gully's Pilot:

Assuming you were serious, Becky is an excellent clinician. Very good eye, good way of explaining things, can accurately assess horse and rider's skill and confidence levels, is easy to talk to, etc. PM me if you want more. I attend every clinic I can with her.

Sannois
May. 6, 2010, 09:44 AM
ITs amazing that one can stay away from COTH for over a year, wander in one day and find that nothing has changed!
Isn't Laine the one who had the fatal crash 2 years ago? Memory is fading.
Look at it this way OP, before the internet, you found someone you wanted to do a clinic with and you did it, if they interested you. No input from faceless names, If you knew somone who has ridden with that person, then you had input, If not you go and spend your money and takes your chances, You take what you want and throw out the rest. Everyone always has something to offer, I am sure Laine does as well. Be sure and let us know how it goes! :)