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TSHEventing
Apr. 28, 2010, 09:56 AM
Was there a height called this? or is there? If so, what were they?

findeight
Apr. 28, 2010, 10:39 AM
Preliminary used to be based on the amount of money a horse had earned last I was aware. Doubt that has changed.

Last one I saw called PJ was about 4'6"+ish...maybe 1.4m, 1.45m these days. No open water but tough enough, not a weekend warrior class.

I went and checked (because I am on call and bored) the USEF rule book. Section JP115 refers to "classes based on money won" says nothing about the name of the class or heights, just says earnings record determines eligibility, must be kept and goes with the horse if/when sold.

So your answer would be in the prize list. But, best guess, it's an anybody can ride division, mainly Pros. Probably going to be above the height the A/O Juniors go but below GP level. So that matches the 4'6"+ish/1.4m I remember seeing. Big circuits may be a little higher, smaller a little lower. They may also have several splits...winners of 5k or less. Winners of 15k or less and so forth, that is going to mean various heights and degree of difficulty.

PNWjumper
Apr. 28, 2010, 10:54 AM
Yes, there used to be a division called Preliminary Jumpers. Around here I believe the lows were 4' or 4'3" and the highs were 4'6" (maybe 4'6"-4'9" at the bigger shows?). They replaced the division with the level/meter classes. It was an open class to pros and amateurs and I believe that, as find8 mentioned, it was based on money won (i.e. you couldn't show in the lows if you'd won more that $x). The next step up, IIRC, was the Open Jumpers.

Lucassb
Apr. 28, 2010, 10:56 AM
It's an older class spec/division.

From the 2004 Rulebook:

Article 2714. Jumper Sections/Classes Restricted by Prior Winnings.
1]Preliminary Jumper:
Jumper class offering prize money (Note: the horse must be recorded at this time) and continues for not less than two calendar years from that date regardless of money won. In addition, the horse must win at least $5000 in jumper classes that are not restricted to horses under six years of age before graduating to Intermediate status.
Level of Difficulty.
At competitions offering over $750. - may be offered at Levels 5 to 7. At competitions offering $750. or less - at Levels 4 to 7. Local Competitions
minimum Level; maximum same as above.
Dividing Sections.
Any Preliminary section with 50 or more entries at the beginning of the first class must be divided and separate classes must be offered.

Seal Harbor
Apr. 28, 2010, 10:58 AM
And and the next step was Intermediate Jumpers then Open.

I finally figured out the Level stuff and they change it to Meters!! Gah!

findeight
Apr. 28, 2010, 11:00 AM
...The next step up, IIRC, was the Open Jumpers.

Yup, no GPs back in the dinosaur days. Then for quite awhile, GPs were special and not every show had them. So the Open Jumpers was the big money class with the biggest sticks for that particular show.

Now GPs are so common, that's the top step...sort of. Anybody can call anything a GP, the points don't go to the rankings but you can see a 4' GP with a 3' Mini Prix-or worse. More fallout from out I'm OK, you're OK everybody is good and we cannot suggest somebody is not good enough to do whatever they want. Another thread, I know.

Roxy SM
Apr. 28, 2010, 11:44 AM
Yup, no GPs back in the dinosaur days. Then for quite awhile, GPs were special and not every show had them. So the Open Jumpers was the big money class with the biggest sticks for that particular show.

Now GPs are so common, that's the top step...sort of. Anybody can call anything a GP, the points don't go to the rankings but you can see a 4' GP with a 3' Mini Prix-or worse. More fallout from out I'm OK, you're OK everybody is good and we cannot suggest somebody is not good enough to do whatever they want. Another thread, I know.

Haha I know. I just saw on a HITS prizelist that they now have level 0 and 1 jumpers! It was bad enough when they added in level 2s. It's just as bad in the hunters with 2'6 hunter "classics" and all those ridiculous modified divisions. I saw at culpeper they had both the schooling hunters and "HITS" hunters as well as the lows and a million modified, novice, and baby green classes all under 3'. Why? Why do they do this? I know it makes money for them but it really takes away any prestige a show had.

MHM
Apr. 28, 2010, 12:56 PM
Why do they do this? I know it makes money for them.

There you go. Asked and answered.

Was it only 6 years ago they were still called Preliminary? It seems like a long time ago now. Time flies.

CoolMeadows
Apr. 28, 2010, 04:01 PM
Just to clarify, the Preliminary eligibility went by money won by the horse, not rider or horse and rider combo. This was burned into my brain because a certain VA GP rider had a large, amusing fit in the schooling ring about my horse doing the high Prelims and insisted he wasn't eligible (he was!). The lows were usually 4' -4'3" and the highs right around 4'6". Heights were usually exactly the same for the Low and High Jr/AO's... at least at the shows I went to in Zone 3.

fordtraktor
Apr. 28, 2010, 08:47 PM
Just to clarify, the Preliminary eligibility went by money won by the horse, not rider or horse and rider combo. This was burned into my brain because a certain VA GP rider had a large, amusing fit in the schooling ring about my horse doing the high Prelims and insisted he wasn't eligible (he was!). The lows were usually 4' -4'3" and the highs right around 4'6". Heights were usually exactly the same for the Low and High Jr/AO's... at least at the shows I went to in Zone 3.

Agree with this. We must have gone to the same shows ... oh wait, after checking your links I know we did. I remember admiring your Mr. Cool horse for years!

CoolMeadows
Apr. 29, 2010, 11:32 AM
Agree with this. We must have gone to the same shows ... oh wait, after checking your links I know we did. I remember admiring your Mr. Cool horse for years!

Isn't he the most appropriately named horse? He's still just plain cool. :) Were you doing the Jr/AOs then too? Can't believe how long ago the mid-90s were!

TSHEventing
May. 2, 2010, 04:40 PM
Thanks Guys! I was told by my mare's sire's owner that he did the High Prelims with amateurs... but didn't know really what that meant! Not bad for an OTTB!! To be fair, he was by Caro who sired several GP jumpers...

imapepper
May. 3, 2010, 12:03 PM
And and the next step was Intermediate Jumpers then Open.

I finally figured out the Level stuff and they change it to Meters!! Gah!

:lol: I know :) Me too!

fordtraktor
May. 3, 2010, 12:45 PM
Isn't he the most appropriately named horse? He's still just plain cool. :) Were you doing the Jr/AOs then too? Can't believe how long ago the mid-90s were!

I mostly did the C/As with my two ponies. Those were good times, the mid-90's! I miss showing at VHC...best facility ever.