PDA

View Full Version : updated 3'-move-up critique please? new show photos!



GGsuperpony
Apr. 27, 2010, 10:16 AM
I'm back with new show photos and hoping all my brilliant friends on the forum can shed some light on my newest question.

Last time I asked for a critique, everyone agreed my stirrups were too long and that the jump in the photo was a nearly-scary long spot.

Since then, Horsie and I have made a huge improvement in finding nice distances - we had only one chip through our three divisions this weekend. (Chip began with a plastic bag flying through the air in front of us two strides out from the first jump - Brave Horsie *just barely* swerved, but our rhythm was blown and I am too inexperienced to fix it right before the fence.) Another big improvement is that my trainer says I am making consistently good decisions on course. I think he is talking about the fact that lots of things I had to think about before now happen automatically.

But, in looking at this picture, despite our huge improvement, I still think I am jumping up his neck, at least somewhat. I also think my leg still slips back. Worst of all, I see a frightening hint of ugly pinching-with-the-knee. I have never had that problem, so if it is developing I want to fix it asap! I showed Trainer the picture, and he was unconcerned but distracted at that moment... So... I thought I would ask y'all before I continue to bug my poor harried trainer.

I also included the picture from the last show so those of you who missed that thread can compare.

(By the way, my subject line says 3'-move-up photos, but actually both of these photos were taken during a warm-up at 2'9. At BOTH shows, the photographer entirely missed my 3' trips! :no:)

Here is the link:

[link removed]

Thanks in advance, y'all! Look forward to hearing your thoughts!

NorthFaceFarm
Apr. 27, 2010, 11:25 AM
In the photo with the green jacket, it almost looks like you aren't up off the horse's back at all. The overall picture would be nicer if your weight was down in those heels, lifting you just off his back and keeping your leg where it belongs.

two sticks
Apr. 27, 2010, 11:49 AM
Did you or are you planning on buying these pics? Otherwise downloading the proofs and uploading them into your own album for any purpose is STEALING from the photog! As a pro photog trying to make a living shooting shows and equine photography, PLEASE don't do this. There are numerous threads about this subject.

If you want opinions on a pro's shots that you aren't purchasing, at least link to the images on the pro's site. Downloading them for personal use (that includes for use to critique, to use on facebook, to email to your friends and fam) with out paying is theft and copyright infringement.

If you did buy these, then nevermind, sorry.

Sorry for the rant, but this is something that is really really hurting the business of horse show photography, and a lot of people don't understand that.

GGsuperpony
Apr. 27, 2010, 11:57 AM
No, no, I should have mentioned that I own both. But it was faster to use the proof from online rather than scanning purchased print. I hope that is legit. I figured as long as I paid it didn't matter which copy I used for the link... But if that is improper I can scan them for everyone's peace of mind. :yes:

two sticks
Apr. 27, 2010, 12:03 PM
No, no, I should have mentioned that I own both. But it was faster to use the proof from online rather than scanning purchased print. I hope that is legit. I figured as long as I paid it didn't matter which copy I used for the link... But if that is improper I can scan them for everyone's peace of mind. :yes:

Yes, as long as you paid for them that is totally ok! Sorry for the rant it's just one of those things that gets to me! Glad you bought the photos, both are very nice. Not much to help you out with as far as critiquing, sorry.

rabicon
Apr. 27, 2010, 12:31 PM
Much better overall picture, good job. Your leg has slipped back, its hard to say but it does look like you are gripping with the knee. I think it would help if you get up just a little and push that heel down. Sink into your heel and not grab with the knee. Nice release and your in a much better position if horsie decides to stop :yes: I would work on getting your weight in your heel and your calf on the horse before moving up. But your getting there girl. Hope all went great at the show, I'll hit you up on fb to see how you did.

Calvincrowe
Apr. 27, 2010, 01:31 PM
Agree with Rabicon--your lower leg is slipped back, along with your base of support. Your butt is too far back and you appear to be a bit behind the motion or sitting down too soon.

Your heel has come up as well.

Cute horse, good expression for what looks to be a wet, muddy trip.

GGsuperpony
Apr. 27, 2010, 01:53 PM
Thanks, y'all, for your input!

To fix my leg - more two-point? Transitions in two-point?

I do tend to sit up too soon, good observation. I need to get in the habit of staying over longer . I think that's just a matter of having Trainer fuss at me for a few lessons, unless y'all have other suggestions?

And yes, the weather was AWFUL but Horsie has the kindest, most willing attitude. He had never shown in the rain before that day. I do love that he looks happy in every rainy, muddy photo. He is a keeper if not a world-beater. :D

Justice
Apr. 27, 2010, 02:13 PM
You have a great upper body, and a beautiful back. Really lovely. It looks like you work hard. I think that the same thing is happening with your leg in both pictures, it's just that shortening your stirrup (which was the right thing to do, definitely) is showing off your weakness. It's easy to say push your feet forward and push your butt back, but it looks like your body may not be cooperating with the instructions your brain is giving it. I think that if you are up for it, some weight training would help you maximize your time in the saddle, especially squats. It's hard to build a strong base of support riding just one without muscle memory to back you up. Meet my girlfriends from The Firm, Get Chiseled. You will learn to hate them as much as I do. Or, try a LGA class at your local gym for a straight legs, glutes and abs workout. I never worked out until after I had kids, and it has made me feel stronger when I ride, even after a 6 year break. When you are in the saddle, 2-point is your friend. I think you should try bendy stirrups, but your trainer might beat me with a stick ;)

I love your horse. He looks like a "friend" horse... the very best kind.

GGsuperpony
Apr. 27, 2010, 03:12 PM
What a coincidence that you would call him a "friend" horse, because my pet name for him is Friend! As in, "How are you, Friend, oh, who's a good Friend, let's go to work, Friend," etc. :D (Except when he gets quick, and then my trainer calls him Junior Johnson. :lol:)

Thanks for your compliments! I guess I am never really satisfied with my efforts, but I have to admit we have made a ton of progress and it hasn't come out of nowhere. So I am terribly glad that it began to pay off this weekend.

Regarding the bendy stirrups, the last time I rode in them I felt like my leg was really, really unstable - anyone else notice that in switching from regular stirrups to the fancy, bendy ones? I didn't last ten minutes in them before switching back... Although I admit it was easier to get my previously-broken left ankle to match the right one with the bendy stirrup, so there is a definite advantage if I could only get used to them.

I like the weight-training idea too. I could definitely do more squats. I actually go the gym with my trainer a couple mornings each week, and we both do some cardio and then weights, but I rarely do the leg stuff that he does. (Don't panic, gym visits are totally an optional part of the program!) I suppose I should "join the others"! You are right, it is hard to get in better shape riding just one horse, so hitting the gym definitely helps.

Summit Springs Farm
Apr. 27, 2010, 03:47 PM
OK, I was trying hard to come up with a really good explanation of my thoughts, but its not coming, so I'll just give you what I got;).

Its your entire position is off, timing and base of support. I know that sounds harsh, but I think its not hard to fix. It's not just your leg that is slipping back its your entire body too.

You need to ride without stirrups or bareback, I like bareback.
Walk, trot and canter with many transitions until you feel you are in sync with your horse.

Once you are stronger in your base, your timing will improve.

Good luck and congrats to moving up!!!

Moderator 1
May. 4, 2010, 08:30 AM
Hi folks ~
Purchasing a print of a pro's shot doesn't automatically provide reproduction rights and/or publication rights, so we've had to remove the link.

Thanks!
Mod 1

ExJumper
May. 4, 2010, 09:25 AM
Mod 1, can you clarify the policy? People aren't using their photos for advertising and as long as people bought the photo, there has never been a problem with posting photos of yourself and your horse. At least not in the past.

If we can't post pictures that we bought, there will be practically no photos posted on this board. Certainly no show critiques.

Green Acres
May. 4, 2010, 09:37 AM
Mod 1, can you clarify the policy? People aren't using their photos for advertising and as long as people bought the photo, there has never been a problem with posting photos of yourself and your horse. At least not in the past.

If we can't post pictures that we bought, there will be practically no photos posted on this board. Certainly no show critiques.

I think the problem was the picture that was posted showed it was a proof even though the OP said the photo had been paid for.

ExJumper
May. 4, 2010, 09:46 AM
I think the problem was the picture that was posted showed it was a proof even though the OP said the photo had been paid for.

Mod 1 seemed to acknowledge that the OP had purchased the print. That's what worries me...

Sarah616
May. 4, 2010, 10:29 AM
I'm speculating here, but I would guess that since there is no proof that the original poster actually bought the picture, then she can't post a picture with "proof" written on it. Also, it's at the very least immoral to take a picture off of a photographer's website with "proof" still written on it, upload it to your own website (or photo site) and not even give the photographer credit.

ExJumper
May. 4, 2010, 10:32 AM
But there's never any REAL proof that any of us have purchased ANY of the pictures we post!

Like you guys are saying, maybe it's just this particular case, but Mod 1's phrasing worried me...

Phaxxton
May. 4, 2010, 10:37 AM
Mod 1 seemed to acknowledge that the OP had purchased the print. That's what worries me...

What worries me is that people don't know the difference between buying a print of a photo and buying the rights to the photo. The OP purchased the print -- as in, a copy of the photo. She didn't purchase the publication rights, reproduction rights, or the rights to the image itself. She purchased a copy of the image, which I am sure she will receive in hard copy.

If I buy a copy of the book, that doesn't give me the right to publish it or reproduce it (whether for profit or not).

blueskye
May. 4, 2010, 10:43 AM
If the OP purchased a print of the photo, she purchased just that, a print, not necessarily the right to reproduce and distribute the photo digitally. Some photographers make this quite clear in their purchase agreements.

I believe the main problem is the OP downloaded the proof from the photographer's website and moved it to a secondary website. I came to this thread too late to see which site was used or whether or not the photographer was at all credited, although I don't think that matters one bit if the purchase was for a print without specific permission to reproduce and distribute the image.

ExJumper
May. 4, 2010, 10:50 AM
What worries me is that people don't know the difference between buying a print of a photo and buying the rights to the photo. The OP purchased the print -- as in, a copy of the photo. She didn't purchase the publication rights, reproduction rights, or the rights to the image itself. She purchased a copy of the image, which I am sure she will receive in hard copy.

If I buy a copy of the book, that doesn't give me the right to publish it or reproduce it (whether for profit or not).


If the OP purchased a print of the photo, she purchased just that, a print, not necessarily the right to reproduce and distribute the photo digitally. Some photographers make this quite clear in their purchase agreements.

I believe the main problem is the OP downloaded the proof from the photographer's website and moved it to a secondary website. I came to this thread too late to see which site was used or whether or not the photographer was at all credited, although I don't think that matters one bit if the purchase was for a print without specific permission to reproduce and distribute the image.

While I certainly agree with what both of you wrote from a "letter of the law" perspective, it's certainly not the way it has been enforced in the past. If we are changing the way we enforce the posting of pictures in such a substantial way, I think it needs to be mentioned.

For as long as I've been here, people have posted pro pictures that they have purchased. If that is going to have to stop I think it is a hige change and should be addressed by the mods.

But this is all speculation. I "reported" my post with a request for Mod 1 to chime in. I'm hoping that she can clarify if this is an issue with thie specific picture, or if this is a paradigm shift for the site as a whole.

horsesarelikepotatochips
May. 4, 2010, 11:21 AM
The pictures that the OP posted were stolen from a professional photographer's website. They had "proof" stamped all over them. If she had posted photos that did not have "proof" stamped all over them, I'm sure it wouldn't have been a problem. Regardless of whether or not she purchased a copy of the photo, the photos she was linking to were not purchased, they were captured off of a website and saved into another program.

Moderator 1
May. 4, 2010, 01:20 PM
Hi again!

I've just been interfacing with the main office to be sure we're on the same page and we'll be clarifying the wording in the rules to be sure everyone can find the info easily, too.

In a nutshell, if we receive notice from a copyright owner of an infringement, we have to take it down, per our Terms of Service (http://www.chronofhorse.com/terms-service) and the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.

We're not going to go out hunting for violations, but if we're contacted about something, we'll take it down. In this case, the OP posted proofs, which is a clear no-no, but even if you do buy a print of a photo, there are typically provisions against reproducing them or publishing them in the photographer's usage agreement, so it's each person's responsibility to be sure they have permission to post something before they do.

So, since the OP purchased these photos, she's welcome to post a link to the "real" shots if she has permission from the photographer to do so. Because they were proofs, I admit I deleted the link before I checked to see if the person alerting us to the thread was the actual photographer, so I'm not sure of the status there and apologize for any confusion.

This issue has become a more sensitive one in recent years with the advent of so many new avenues for photo sharing, etc., and there will likely be lawsuits flung around between big shots to hone governing laws further. :)

In the meantime, we all (mods included!) are getting up to speed!
Thanks,
Mod 1

rabicon
May. 4, 2010, 02:42 PM
I don't think the OP thought she was doing anything wrong. There is a difference between buying a picture and buying the rights to photos. Just like my daughters headshots, we had to pay extra money to buy the rights to the photos to be able to use them and send them to agencies. So in a nutshell, usually buying a cd gives you the rights to reproduce but buying one or two or three photos usually does not without paying extra to own the rights. Now I'm sure there are a lot of photos on here we see that people don't have the rights to but just have the photo they bought and most photogs will let that slide as long as they did pay for the photo. Now if they see their photo used in an ad etc... then they usually won't let that slide if they find out.

Linny
May. 4, 2010, 09:57 PM
If a photo we'd like to share is on a photog's website as a proof, may we link to that site?

If I purchase a photo and scan it to save on my harddrive, is that legal to share here?

ktm2007
May. 4, 2010, 11:44 PM
So just for clarification, the "which picture to buy" threads are a no no?

rabicon
May. 5, 2010, 10:14 AM
Usually its okay if you link the photogs site to it and give them credit. If you copy and save to your computer and then put it up, well thats not okay.

Freelance
May. 5, 2010, 02:34 PM
Lenny asked…..“If I purchase a photo and scan it to save on my hard drive, is that legal to share here?”

Define what you mean by, “If I purchase a photograph”? Did you buy the copyright for the photograph or simply purchase a single print? If you purchased the copyright then whatever terms you and the copyright holder agreed to is the limitation you need obeyed by. If you purchased a print of a photograph and scan it, without owning the copyright to the photograph, you have just committed a felony crime and according to the digital millennium act are punishable with fines up to one million dollars and five years in a federal penitentiary (Thank you Bill Clinton).

Yet people still do it. So the next time a thread pops-up with folks ranting about how high photograph prices are or Photographers charging to view prints or not posting photographs on line…………this is exactly why!