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*jumper*
Apr. 25, 2010, 08:02 PM
This might be a dumb question, but it popped into my mind as I was riding earlier. My horse is not a kicker and totally fine with horses running up his butt and all that, but when I ask him to canter forward he tends buck or kick out, often with little regard for anything/one around him. He's just exuberant and not meanspirited, and I try not to do anything that would make him act out like this when I'm riding by another horse or someone on the ground, obviously. In a warm-up though, should I put a ribbon in his tail just in case, or is that more reserved for nasty kickers?

Philosopher
Apr. 25, 2010, 08:31 PM
Well my opinion's worth what you paid for it, but if I or my mount were to be kicked by your horse, I wouldn't much care whether he was motivated by exuberance or meanspiritedness. ;)

Go Fish
Apr. 25, 2010, 08:37 PM
Well my opinion's worth what you paid for it, but if I or my mount were to be kicked by your horse, I wouldn't much care whether he was motivated by exuberance or meanspiritedness. ;)

I'm with you. If my horse was bucking or kicking out when asked to go forward, he'd be getting his hiney womped with a stick pretty hard.

I assume you are taking show warm up? If that's the case, please keep him home until you have this disobedience corrected. No one should be put at risk because your horse is not broke enough to behave himself.

x
Apr. 25, 2010, 08:45 PM
A red ribbon wouldn't hurt, and probably would be appreciated by those around you.

*jumper*
Apr. 25, 2010, 09:39 PM
I'm with you. If my horse was bucking or kicking out when asked to go forward, he'd be getting his hiney womped with a stick pretty hard.

I assume you are taking show warm up? If that's the case, please keep him home until you have this disobedience corrected. No one should be put at risk because your horse is not broke enough to behave himself.

Once in a blue moon he'll do this in reaction to my leg, but usually he kicks out just when I give him a smack with the crop. We are definitely working on controlling this behavior and ensuring that he knows to send his energy forward rather than wherever his back legs are going.

If anyone has any ideas on how to correct this I would love to hear, because this is a fairly recent thing and we've ruled out physical issues. I have shown him numerous times before without this being a problem and he's always behaved himself, but I would rather be safe than sorry (and rather eliminate the issue altogether).

ETA: To clarify the exuberance v. meanspiritedness; what I meant was more that this is not a "typical" behavior...my horse wouldn't just kick out at a passing horse or do so just because. I can pretty much predict/control when he will do this bucking, and would never step foot in a show ring or warm up if he were recklessly kicking out at other horses. And I'm not trying to justify his current behavior...as I said above, it's definitely not ok, but he also isn't some rank bronc out there :)

Thanks for the input!

Go Fish
Apr. 25, 2010, 09:54 PM
Thanks for the clarification.

Kicking out at your crop is disobedience. My solution is to whack again harder and keep whacking until they stop kicking. I'll be driving with spurs planted, as well.

Sit down and hang on. It sounds like he's maybe gotten away with this for a bit, and is basically arguing with you about going forward. Lay down the law.

*jumper*
Apr. 25, 2010, 10:27 PM
Thanks for the clarification.

Kicking out at your crop is disobedience. My solution is to whack again harder and keep whacking until they stop kicking. I'll be driving with spurs planted, as well.

Sit down and hang on. It sounds like he's maybe gotten away with this for a bit, and is basically arguing with you about going forward. Lay down the law.

I will definitely do that. I'm the more timid type that will shut down after a buck and try to "keep the peace." My trainer schooled him this weekend and managed to ride through the silliness so I will buckle down and try to ignore his shenanigans and make sure he knows the theatrics aren't acceptable.

Lazy Palomino Hunter
Apr. 26, 2010, 02:48 PM
Thanks for the clarification.

Kicking out at your crop is disobedience. My solution is to whack again harder and keep whacking until they stop kicking. I'll be driving with spurs planted, as well.

Sit down and hang on. It sounds like he's maybe gotten away with this for a bit, and is basically arguing with you about going forward. Lay down the law.

I have little to add to the thread itself, but I wanted to say this made me laugh out loud.

The love of my life, Manny, is 1/2 Oldenburg and 1/4 App. To quote the director of riding at my college, "whose idea was it to cross two of the most hard headed breeds out there?"

He's exceptionally a) lazy, and b) stubborn. He earns his keep as an up-down beginner horse at my alma mater, which he is very good at. Save the days he decides moving is overrated.

One particularly memorable ride, I was on him because he had been obnoxiously lazy for the beginners (as in, walking super slow until he just stopped, then standing with his ears out to the side, just refusing to move because he knew they lacked the skill and willpower to make him do it).

I got on. Started walking. Asked for a trot. Got a jog. Whacked him hard. Got a BIG buck. He broke to a walk. I squeezed... no response, so I hit him again. He bucked again, but squealed that time.

The indoor is BIG (120x300), and we proceeded to duke it out for about half the ring (squeeze-whack-squeal-death walk-squeeze-whack-cow kick-death walk-repeat).

Finally he planted his feet, stood stock still for a moment, and heaved a HUGE sigh. I gave him a squeeze and... he went forward without incident for the remainder of the ride.

:lol: I WIN!

(related: "I'm trotting... I'm trotting... (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1124/86/28/50000090/n50000090_30488310_5223.jpg)" ... 8 seconds later... "NO, I will NOT do a f***ing turn on the forehand! (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1124/86/28/50000090/n50000090_30488288_5695.jpg)" :lol::lol: )

Go Fish
Apr. 26, 2010, 03:41 PM
:lol::lol::lol:

Lazy - I offer this advice due to experience, too!

My mare is lazy, lazy, lazy on the flat. What's infuriating is that she is all happy to go forward with the trainer, ears up, eager...the works. About every 10th ride with me, she decides it's not a work day...it's hot, she's just had lunch, it's Tuesday, she just had her nails done. I'll put a leg on, nothing. Whack with the stick, nothing. Pick up the dressage whip, whack, kick (tail wringing), whack (ears pinned), kick, whack, kick. I can clear the ring pretty fast with these shennanigans. Then we go for a nice gallop around the ring, stop, ask for forward and she's very happy to comply. It's such a relief to get on my gelding, ask, and he smiles and says, "yes, Mom!"

Oldenburg99
Apr. 27, 2010, 07:53 AM
:lol::lol::lol:

Lazy - I offer this advice due to experience, too!

My mare is lazy, lazy, lazy on the flat. What's infuriating is that she is all happy to go forward with the trainer, ears up, eager...the works. About every 10th ride with me, she decides it's not a work day...it's hot, she's just had lunch, it's Tuesday, she just had her nails done. I'll put a leg on, nothing. Whack with the stick, nothing. Pick up the dressage whip, whack, kick (tail wringing), whack (ears pinned), kick, whack, kick. I can clear the ring pretty fast with these shennanigans. Then we go for a nice gallop around the ring, stop, ask for forward and she's very happy to comply. It's such a relief to get on my gelding, ask, and he smiles and says, "yes, Mom!"

ROTFL, thanks go fish! :lol:

Can I put a red ribbon in my horse's tail so people won't buzz me? My horse has manners and can win a hack but has a personal bubble.

cyberbay
Apr. 27, 2010, 08:58 AM
It's correct to keep using the stick until you get the desired results, but please, please, do not drive in your spurs and leave them embedded until whenever. That is counter-productive, and borders on, well... No animal in its right mind -- you included -- can know how to respond to pain like that. Use your spur in a press/release/repeat style and you can be quite strong with this, but you have to release and reapply. Burying them in his side does nothing except confuse him.

Other are right: Your horse kicking out the stick is giving the wrong response. Keep tapping until you get the response you want. But watch that you don't just whap on him -- you could be overdoing it and t he horse is defending himself.

Also, just as importantly, coming on too strong with the aids can be why your horse is setting against you. Maybe just a tap is all you need. Pain is not a real motivator, sorry to say, except in direct and knowing disobedience to your aids.

And red ribbon in tail? Totally good idea. More people should do this.

cyberbay
Apr. 27, 2010, 09:19 AM
It's correct to keep using the stick until you get the desired results, but please, please, do not drive in your spurs and leave them embedded until whenever. That is counter-productive, and borders on, well... No animal in its right mind -- you included -- can know how to respond to pain like that. Use your spur in a press/release/repeat style and you can be quite strong with this, but you have to release and reapply. Burying them in his side does nothing except confuse him.

Other are right: Your horse kicking out the stick is giving the wrong response. Keep tapping until you get the response you want. But watch that you don't just whap on him -- you could be overdoing it and t he horse is defending himself.

Also, just as importantly, coming on too strong with the aids can be why your horse is setting against you. Maybe just a tap is all you need. Pain is not a real motivator, sorry to say, except in direct and knowing disobedience to your aids.

And red ribbon in tail? Totally good idea. More people should do this.

Fairview Horse Center
Apr. 27, 2010, 09:32 AM
Make sure when you are sending him forward, you are leaving the "front door" wide open. Mixed signals can make - especially the greenies, buck, or resist going forward, in front of the leg.

Just for information, a horse with an orange ribbon in its tail, is a stallion.

Going Bananas
May. 2, 2010, 10:37 PM
your horse is hurting. have a horse Chiropractor look at him. Some vets do it as well as accupunture.

:D