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starkissed
Apr. 24, 2010, 09:52 PM
I just read the new practical horseman magazine and eventer Doug Payne had a very long training article. I have never heard of this fellow but reading the article was a delight. And from the photos he looked like a splendid rider! It was truly a treat to read and I hope you all get the chance. The schooling exercises were great as well, I cannot wait to practice!:)

rideforthelaurels16
Apr. 24, 2010, 10:16 PM
Love Doug Payne! He's had a reputation as a sort of 'miracle worker' with difficult horses for a while now - in fact, The Alchemist, who is running his second Rolex, was trained and competed originally by Doug. There was a good article about him a couple years back in PH, I'll see if I can track it down.

billiebob
Apr. 25, 2010, 01:02 AM
I've never met Doug Payne but the instructional video he did with Jimmy Wofford (The Rider's Eye) is awesome! I totally recommend it to anyone. It's especially nice because I probably won't ever be brave enough for anything higher than Novice but I can ride vicariously (and much, much better; he's such a lovely rider!) through the magic of helmet cam. From his commentary on the DVD I'd imagine he's probably a great instructor as well.

Caroline Weber
Apr. 25, 2010, 01:06 AM
starkissed, I believe Doug posts on COTH from time to time. If you have any questions about whatever exercises were in PH, chances are he'd be happy to clarify if you shoot him an email. Since you don't seem to know much about him, he's Marilyn Payne's son - she judged at Hong Kong in 2008 and was called in to do Rolex this year. I worked for her for some time and occasionally got loaned out to Doug, and yes, he is a quiet but very effective rider.

LexInVA
Apr. 25, 2010, 01:19 AM
He's a good rider to be sure. The rest can be hit or miss.

Calvincrowe
Apr. 25, 2010, 02:01 AM
Good article, lots of good stuff to apply to jumpers as well as eventing. Only complaint was his barely buckled helmet in the photos. Like getting in a car with airbags and not buckling a seat belt.

D&W
Apr. 25, 2010, 03:22 AM
I just read that new PH article the other day! I didn't know who DP was before I read it, but I have to say I was very impressed by his riding in the photos. I really enjoyed the article (even though I don't event, it's nice to learn about). I'd love to watch his DVDs. Kudos to Doug!

Flying Hippotamus
Apr. 26, 2010, 11:17 PM
no one mentioned his mom just judged at rolex...

rideforthelaurels16
Apr. 26, 2010, 11:41 PM
starkissed, I believe Doug posts on COTH from time to time. If you have any questions about whatever exercises were in PH, chances are he'd be happy to clarify if you shoot him an email. Since you don't seem to know much about him, he's Marilyn Payne's son - she judged at Hong Kong in 2008 and was called in to do Rolex this year. I worked for her for some time and occasionally got loaned out to Doug, and yes, he is a quiet but very effective rider.

^She did ;)

SueCoo2
Apr. 27, 2010, 07:51 AM
Does he get out and clinic around the country at all? Just wondering as I enjoyed the PH article as well. :)

merrygoround
Apr. 27, 2010, 08:39 AM
He's a good rider to be sure. The rest can be hit or miss.









Raised eyebrow! The rest of what?

blazing saddles
Apr. 27, 2010, 12:23 PM
wow, I can't believe how many are just hearing about doug. he's a really nice guy, very approachable at events and pretty hard to miss. Follow the trail of yellow and red, if it's not bruce or buck, you've found doug. :)

Phaxxton
Apr. 27, 2010, 12:26 PM
wow, I can't believe how many are just hearing about doug. he's a really nice guy, very approachable at events and pretty hard to miss. Follow the trail of yellow and red, if it's not bruce or buck, you've found doug. :)

I was just thinking the same thing. I am surprised so many people haven't heard of him. He's a lovely rider and very personable. :yes:

NeverTime
Apr. 27, 2010, 02:05 PM
I've never met Doug Payne but the instructional video he did with Jimmy Wofford (The Rider's Eye) is awesome! I totally recommend it to anyone. It's especially nice because I probably won't ever be brave enough for anything higher than Novice but I can ride vicariously (and much, much better; he's such a lovely rider!) through the magic of helmet cam. From his commentary on the DVD I'd imagine he's probably a great instructor as well.

FYI - The exercises Doug goes through in the article are taken from "The Rider's Eye" video, so if you are intrigued or want to see them in action, from the groun or on helmet cam, (or with the invaluable commentary of Jim Wofford), check out this video! :cool:

FLeckenAwesome
Apr. 27, 2010, 02:14 PM
Yep.. I've already pulled that article out and have put it in my "book of exercises to do" book!

We're prepping for the T3D this Fall, so... it's a gymnastics a week until then! Starting with Jimmy Woffords book and will add in this too (If it's not already in his book). I loved it!! Can't wait to get to it too!

riderboy
Apr. 27, 2010, 02:45 PM
Just met him a couple of times very casually and he seems like a hell of a nice guy.

CapturinYerRide
Apr. 27, 2010, 02:51 PM
And he takes pretty good pictures too.. I've seen!

D&W
Apr. 28, 2010, 01:40 AM
You can't blame me for not knowing about him, since I spend most of my time in Dressage Land. :)

I have met his mom when she worked and I volunteered at a couple different shows, and she's super, super nice. I'm definitely not surprised that her son would be a nice person too! Would love to meet him and see him ride in person sometime!

Lex -- are you speaking from experience? Have you met Doug? Please clarify your comment for me (as I can only cope with vague in certain realms). :)

Ritazza
Apr. 28, 2010, 08:34 AM
A judging question: how legal is it for Marilyn, judging this year at Rolex, to judge Doug, riding this year at Rolex?

(On a separate judging note, Marilyn judged at a dressage show I went to a few years ago and raved about my horse, giving her a couple 69%s at First Level and reportedly calling her "my pet" to the scribe; Doug last summer judged the same horse at Novice and was totally lukewarm about her, told me she was pokey and slow and gave me a very sad 34 for what I thought was my best test yet that year! Other riders in my division told me your horse had to be running in order to be forward enough for him!)

Caroline Weber
Apr. 28, 2010, 09:26 AM
A judging question: how legal is it for Marilyn, judging this year at Rolex, to judge Doug, riding this year at Rolex?

Doug did not compete at Rolex this year. At the moment, Doug's really nice up and coming horses have not yet begun competing at Advanced (Tali is at prelim and Running Order is going Intermediate). Doug's sister Holly had been entered earlier in the spring but opted to try another year. I don't know what the rule is with children or other relatives, but the rule about judges and their students is I believe a 30-day period without the judge having given a lesson/training. Granted, I can tell you from experience that your trainer will judge you more stringently.

But no, there was no conflict of interest this year.

lizajane09
Apr. 28, 2010, 10:31 AM
Other riders in my division told me your horse had to be running in order to be forward enough for him!)

I would disagree with this - having ridden with Doug, we spent a lot of time teaching my mare (who wants to run through her whole test...) not to do so. He helped me vastly improve my dressage in a relatively short period of time. Obviously, every judge has some personal preferences in what they like to see, but I've never seen Doug judge where he wanted to see horses running and unbalanced! Forward, yes, but forward and running are not the same thing, and forward is one of those things near the bottom of the training pyramid that sometimes doesn't get as much attention as it should.


To add to Caroline above, Marilyn had not been planning to judge when her daughter was planning to ride. She got called in to judge when the volcano disrupted the arrival of other judges from Europe, after her daughter had scratched.

LexInVA
Apr. 28, 2010, 11:19 AM
Lex -- are you speaking from experience? Have you met Doug? Please clarify your comment for me (as I can only cope with vague in certain realms). :)

Yes, I am speaking from my own personal experience as a volunteer at venues in VA and MD where he has competed and problems have occurred due to his behavior/attitude and from discourse about him with other volunteers, event staff, and riders regarding him.

RenaissanceMare
Apr. 28, 2010, 11:28 AM
I think Doug is a very talented rider, however

From my personal experience I think he's a pretty big tool.

I think he gets away with being a pretty big tool because he's attractive and straight and girls swoon over him.

Fergs
Apr. 28, 2010, 11:29 AM
Yes, I am speaking from my own personal experience as a volunteer at venues in VA and MD where he has competed and problems have occurred due to his behavior/attitude and from discourse about him with other volunteers, event staff, and riders regarding him.

Wait. I'm going to have to say something. Let me say first that I don't know Doug from Adam.

My mom is a regular volunteer at two events in Area II, and she says that Doug is consistently one of the nicest, most accommodating, pleasant pros to ride at her events. High praise coming from someone who will not take crap from anyone and who doesn't dole out compliments to pros riding multiple horses very often.

Caroline Weber
Apr. 28, 2010, 12:17 PM
Yes, I am speaking from my own personal experience as a volunteer at venues in VA and MD where he has competed and problems have occurred due to his behavior/attitude and from discourse about him with other volunteers, event staff, and riders regarding him.

I'm very sorry that you've had this experience, but I've never seen him be anything but respectful to volunteers, even at smaller venues where the volunteers have zero experience and can be quite confused (gotta start somewhere, right?). He's also very respectful to the rest of him team, and if there's one thing I've found, it's that the working students and grooms bear the brunt of a rider's attitude issues.


I think Doug is a very talented rider, however

From my personal experience I think he's a pretty big tool.

Why, because he markets himself aggressively? Yes, he has his logo all over absolutely everything, and a lot of people who know him well crack jokes about it. But you know what? Brand recognition works. Word of mouth certainly helps his business, but I'm sure his jumping exercise articles in Practical Horseman don't exactly turn clients away. I know many talented riders who don't have a thriving training business like Doug's because they don't market themselves at all. For all of his logo-plastering, I've watched Doug teach enough up-down lessons to know that he isn't pretentious.

He has some pretty nice horses in training because of his marketing and riding skills, but he's never had a made horse handed to him. He's worked his ass off - got his A in Pony Club by 16, got licensed as a judge/TD, hasn't had made horses handed to him. Have you ever spent any time with him and gotten to know his training philosophies before deciding he's pretentious?

I defend Doug as a rider, a trainer, and a person because I've spent several years working with him and his family - and having worked for and ridden with a number of BNTs who were just at Rolex, I would rather work for him and have him ride my horses. I'm sure everyone has their own experiences.

lizajane09
Apr. 28, 2010, 02:01 PM
I defend Doug as a rider, a trainer, and a person because I've spent several years working with him and his family - and having worked for and ridden with a number of BNTs who were just at Rolex, I would rather work for him and have him ride my horses. I'm sure everyone has their own experiences.

This. Caroline's pretty clearly stated what I would say myself, so I don't have too much to add except that I agree with her 100%.

lcw579
Apr. 28, 2010, 03:15 PM
Yes, I am speaking from my own personal experience as a volunteer at venues in VA and MD where he has competed and problems have occurred due to his behavior/attitude and from discourse about him with other volunteers, event staff, and riders regarding him.


Wait. I'm going to have to say something. Let me say first that I don't know Doug from Adam.

My mom is a regular volunteer at two events in Area II, and she says that Doug is consistently one of the nicest, most accommodating, pleasant pros to ride at her events. High praise coming from someone who will not take crap from anyone and who doesn't dole out compliments to pros riding multiple horses very often.

Perhaps you reap what you sow, no?

a_quick_one
Apr. 28, 2010, 10:48 PM
I know someone whose horse is in training with Doug, and she has been very, very happy with the results. Can't comment on him as a person, as I've never met him.

I've met Marilyn a few times, and ridden with her once, and I think she's WONDERFUL. I hope her kids live up to her.

KBG Eventer
Apr. 28, 2010, 11:08 PM
The differing opinions on this thread remind me of at least two other threads where one or more people criticized a trainer when a lot of other people had nothing but good experiences with that person. FWIW, I have seen Doug at events a couple of times, and he seemed extremely nice. Actually the one of about 2 times I have seen him, he was thanking some volunteers for their help. Jim seems to have a high level of respect for Doug as well.

JanWeber
Apr. 29, 2010, 09:33 AM
Right. Not sure what's to be gained by trashing people on this board. Nearly everyone likes and respects Doug, Holly (who by the way is a talented rider and trainer and a genuinely nice person) and Marilyn. Known them through Pony Club for rather a while now. Both of my kids have worked with them and for them all over the years (and both have been WS for other BNT as well so they know whereof they speak) and they have the utmost respect for each of the Paynes. Tell me, someone, what is the point of scathing remarks - what do you lose by just sitting back and watching other people make up their minds about someone's training style, character, and consideration?

Screebe
Apr. 29, 2010, 10:35 AM
Wow. I'm not an eventer, but I volunteered at an event in Aiken in February and was very impressed with Doug Payne. He was a complete gentleman and very courteous to a newbie like myself. I really enjoyed reading the article in PH.

Just a sidenote: I ride and show hunters and I was blown away with the courtesy and graciousness of nearly all of the big name riders I interacted with during my six hours as a dressage arena steward. I could not believe how friendly and approachable nearly all of these men and women were. It was a brutally cold, windy day, and Kim Severson asked me if I needed to borrow an extra coat. Kim Severson! Each rider, from Phillip Dutton on down, thanked me for volunteering.

I've always been a closet eventing fan, this experience only confirmed what I've always suspected--you guys are the best. Keep that sense of community, it's what sets your discipline apart.