View Full Version : Is Cool Mountain a full TB?

Apr. 23, 2010, 09:12 PM
I thought he was but there seems to be some unknowns in his pedigree (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/cool+mountain).

That said, he was bred at Louella out of a mare they listed as TB, which would indicate that he's an unregisterable TB. Anyone know for sure?

Nice to see a Primitive Rising offspring atop the leaderboard for dressage as this is not the phase they're known for. :)

Apr. 25, 2010, 09:02 AM
Here its saying he is PBA.


Apr. 25, 2010, 10:07 AM
What's PBA? It says he's 'BHD', which I take to mean 'British Horse Database', meaning he's a mix of some unknown breeding and hence a mutt.

He looks like 3/4 thoroughbred.

Apr. 25, 2010, 10:43 AM
PBA is Part Bred Arab

Apr. 25, 2010, 11:36 AM
His dam may not be full TB but according to the link, she also produced a horse called Cracker Barrel - is that the Cracker Barrel that Ann Hardaway Taylor evented at 4* level?? If so, whatever her breeding, she can produce....:)

Apr. 25, 2010, 01:12 PM
From the stud website,it looks like the dam was by their arab stallion:
"Since Louella stud was founded by the late Louis Massarella in 1934 when he stood his first coloured stallion, Salvador, who was later joined by the Arab stallion Yasam. These two sired the half brother and sister Billy Boy and La Princess out of Louis' hackney mare Baysing Sensation. They were chosen to represent Great Britain in Belgium on the junior British team. Unfortunately La Princess was injured coming off the boat but Billy Boy returned home an individual medal winner. Yasam also sired the Grade A mare Lollipop, bred by Louis and ridden by the late, great Ted Williams. 1988 was a good year for Louella as we were lucky enough to purchase the great Primitive Rising. This was the first horse we had bought specifically for the National Hunt market and as always, with a Louella stallion, he had to fit our criteria – goods looks, athletic movement, breeding and temperament. As Alan Yuill Walker wrote in the Horse and Hound; ‘To stand at Louella, he must be good looking'.
Primitive Rising
Primitive Rising
Moor Lane, by Primitive Rising
Moor Lane, by Primitive Rising
What a find Primitive Rising turned out to be; he was a leading National Hunt sire with offspring such as Moor Lane, Paperising, Suprising and Cheltenham festival winner Go Informal. He was also a prolific sire of eventers, winning 8 British Horse Foundation Awards and siring the winner of the Burghley Young Event Horse on 5 occasions. His advanced horses include Primitive Control (6th Badminton, 7th Burghley, competed for GB at the 2002 European championships), Primitive Streak (8th Bramham and Necarne), Jurassic Rising (3rd & 4th Bramham, 1st Blenheim, 5th Le Lion d'angers) and Limestone Rise (5th Chatsworth). He is also the sire of Port Patrick who was bred by Louella; a multiple hunter champion including top UK bred 4 yr old at the Royal Show 2005."

Apr. 25, 2010, 05:59 PM
Yes, it's Ann Hardaway's Cracker Barrel who is out of the same mare.

But a PBA? I don't see where the Arab comes in.

not again
Apr. 25, 2010, 06:07 PM
This is what shows on the database:

Apr. 25, 2010, 06:31 PM
But being a descendant of the Darley Arabian doesn't make a horse a PBA -- unless we're now calling all TBs 'PBAs'.

Apr. 25, 2010, 06:32 PM
the Arab stallion Yasam. I think on some pedigree I saw of Cool Mountain( the Rolex competitor list maybe?) they had him as the dams maternal grandsire?

Apr. 25, 2010, 06:35 PM

Foaled 2000
Total Points 442
Total FP 0

From BE

ICE LOLLY's pedigree from Equineline; http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=816840&registry=T&horse_name=Ice%20Lolly&dam_name=Zaza's%20Ark&foaling_year=1980&nicking_stats_indicator=N

The pedigree on Del Mar is for Icelolly (1 word)
On Equineline it's for Ice Lolly (2 words)

So - if his dam IS Ice Lolly (2 words) he is a full TB.

Apr. 25, 2010, 06:36 PM
I guess the "unknown" is Arab.

Apr. 25, 2010, 08:59 PM
Does the Jockey Club equivalent in the U.K. allow a horse to be registered "TB" if one of the predecessors is Arabian?

Ice Lolly is listed as TB-UK-82, her sire, Idiot's Delight, is listed TB-UK-70 and her dam, Arctic Maid, is listed TB-UK-72. I'm no brainiac but doesn't that mean her sire and dam both have to be TBs??? :rolleyes:

Apr. 25, 2010, 09:57 PM
Does the Jockey Club equivalent in the U.K.

Hahahahaha !

Apr. 26, 2010, 01:34 AM
Hahahahaha !

The JC equivalent in GB is Weatherby's, they are the ones who keep the studbook. The Jockey Club (english variety) were traditionally the ones that oversaw the rules and regulations of day to day racing, until that role was recently handed to the BHA.

Cool Mountain is registered with Weatherby's in the NTR (the non-TB registry) as are his dam Icelolly (one word, not two) and her dam, Arctic Maid II. Whenever you see "II" or "VI" after the name that's the traditional shorthand in Gb and Ireland for a horse that is part bred or off unknown pedigree and as such can't be entered into the General Stud Book (the original TB studbook). However, unlike in the US, these horses are allowed to race.

The damsire, Idiot's Delight was a decent sire of chasers, he sired Martha's Son who won the Champion Chase at Cheltenham and the Melling Chase at Aintree back in the 90's.
Also, the horse that went off as favourite for the Grand National a couple of weeks ago and finished 4th, Big Fella Thanks, is by Primitive Rising, the sire of Cool Mountain.
So Cool Mountain is bred in the blue for running and jumping.

Btw, he has a half brother, a horse called Nomadic Ice, by Nomadic Way, who was entered to run in a Point to Point at Easingwold on Sunday. Don't know how he got on.

Apr. 26, 2010, 01:43 AM
I thought he was but there seems to be some unknowns in his pedigree (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/cool+mountain).

Btw, that pedigree is incorrect, they have the wrong Idiot's Delight.
The pedigree on the sporthorse data site is the correct one, it jibes with Weatherbys.

Apr. 26, 2010, 11:48 PM
And what is truly depressing is that Primitive Rising was US bred, got sent over the pond, and THEN both his dam and all her other daughters were exported. There are no direct relatives from the dam line left over here.

Or at least that's how I remember my research from a couple of years ago.