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View Full Version : i know i should know this, but..



mustangsal85
Apr. 19, 2010, 10:43 PM
What is the purpose of this seat in eventing? I know it's effective and popular but I just never learned the purpose of this seat over anything but a drop fence. I've only done baby, baby novice XC because I'm too chicken to do anything else, so aside from my annual pilgrimage to Rolex and friends that are eventers, my knowledge is a little weak.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3756211&id=107928939639

Hopefully the link works.

See you guys this weekend! Yay!

deltawave
Apr. 19, 2010, 10:45 PM
I think you could safely call that the "defensive seat", as in "my horse is taking a flyer and if I were to get ahead of the motion right now we'd both be picking brush out of our teeth". :D

On cross country, the "correct" seat is the one that keeps you in the saddle and the horse in balance. ;)

mustangsal85
Apr. 19, 2010, 10:49 PM
Makes perfect sense. Now I can tell that he obviously took a long spot to that jump. Didn't pay attention to that before.

skip916
Apr. 19, 2010, 11:02 PM
i think i would call that, he's taking the long spot and "oh sh**" i got left behind...

asterix
Apr. 19, 2010, 11:39 PM
It's not just "a long spot" -- I doubt anyone on this board who hasn't ridden advanced has ever HAD a long spot this extreme....
so, it's a corner, water-to-water -- this means Buck was trying very hard to hit just the right line to this fence -if you drift to the right, it's almost impossibly wide -- if you drift to the left, you have a runout. Meanwhile, water-to-water means the horse feels as though it is wearing weighted boots -- everything is twice the effort.
Buck is a truly world-class xc rider -- he can stick an awful lot. He's trying here to STAY ON THE HORSE as it obviously left out a stride on a line that had very little margin for error, and which will hit like a ton of bricks when he lands due to the water landing.

He's trying to give the horse maximum freedom/ability to keep his feet under him when he lands, while staying balanced.

It's a pretty extreme pic, and not something you see at lower levels, both because the size and technicality of the fences does not require it, and because the vast majority of us couldn't pull it off if our life depended on it.

So... you, and me, and most of the rest of us, don't really have "use" for such a seat...but it is an extreme version of the defensive, yet allowing position that we should at least be prepared to try when the horse jumps out from underneath us on course...

To bring it down to a level that most of us lower level amateurs can use, good xc riding requires the ability to slip/let go of the reins at a moment's notice, while staying essentially "over your feet" - whatever that means at any given fence. If you get too far over your feet, or restrict the horse's ability to use its head and neck to balance, you can be in trouble, even at the lower levels...

mustangsal85
Apr. 19, 2010, 11:53 PM
Oh ok.. great explanation!! I have so much respect for any equestrian and especially the eventers - the guts and raw talent, skill, and instinct you have to have, nevermind a special and extra honest horse! Buck is the man. :) Thanks for explaining that! Makes a lot more sense now. Hehe, the farthest I've ever gotten was learning to sit back and not yank on the mouth over a drop fence. It was fun, but I never had the guts nor did I have a seasoned/honest XC horse to learn on so I think that kind of put a sour taste in my mouth. :(

asterix
Apr. 19, 2010, 11:56 PM
so, what you just described? This photo is basically an extreme version of that...
and if you ever get the chance to ride a horse who really "gets" xc, you will leave that sour taste behind. It's an awesome, awesome thing when it goes right (and this photo is not "going right" but "phew, surviving!" :D)

Carol Ames
Apr. 20, 2010, 12:00 AM
You've never used this? It's called "getting left, and slipping the reins in order to not catch horse in the mouth:mad:, yet having contact to steer immediately in the air/ on the landing:yes:. used also over major drops:yes:, think head of the lake:eek::cool:, and the old fort Lexington

mustangsal85
Apr. 20, 2010, 12:36 AM
You've never used this? It's called "getting left, and slipping the reins in order to not catch horse in the mouth:mad:, yet having contact to steer immediately in the air/ on the landing:yes:

Hehe, I have used it, only if the picture were of me you would see me scooting backwards off of the horse. just kidding. no i haven't used it, i was saying earlier how i've not done any XC jumps over oh, 2'6 at the MOST and a couple little banks and waters and ditches so I have learned the basics of slipping the reins (which is really hard to get used to!) but have never had to use in competition or schooling really because I never did anything big.

mustangsal85
Apr. 20, 2010, 12:39 AM
so, what you just described? This photo is basically an extreme version of that...
and if you ever get the chance to ride a horse who really "gets" xc, you will leave that sour taste behind. It's an awesome, awesome thing when it goes right (and this photo is not "going right" but "phew, surviving!" :D)

I think you're right. The 2 or 3 horses I've schooled XC or done Mini-Events on would be looky and back off of little logs and coops. I can't even count the amount of times I had to pull teeth to get a horse over a log or got left behind because they goat leaped the jump so bad. One time the little Connemara-TB mare I was riding goat leaped a coop and I got left behind, slammed back onto her crest and bumped my throat so bad that I lost my voice for a week. I guess I knocked my vocal cords? So yeah, I haven't had the best experiences XC. If I could get the opportunity to ride a horse who has been there done that and asks no questions I think I'd love it and get over my nerves real quick. Unfortunately there are no eventers at my barn. :( So I'm not sure when that opportunity will present itself.

n2dressage
Apr. 20, 2010, 06:08 AM
I don't jump anymore for the reasons listed above! Much better at dressage...
Just wanted to say that I love this horse! Watched him go at Rolex last year an he really stuck out as a star!

nileac
Apr. 20, 2010, 09:08 AM
I believe that a testiment to Buck's abilities would be a picture taken 2.5 seconds later when, from that position, he recovered his position to one in which he could not only land in the tack, but jump successfully out of the water and over the following jump as well, which was a very tricky angled question if I understand it the way I saw it last year.

I have the same picture from a different angle, as well as pictures of the rest of the element as well...
not sure if this link will work, but he did certainly do a job getting through the rest of it. If i remember correctly, I believe that he took a similar line to his dad that went out of the water to the left after the corner and then back in, to give himself a straighter line to the jump out.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30645089&l=859cc2d658&id=100300188

say what you want about position... and he does use that one more than perchance, others, but it makes for one heck of a ride!

Kairoshorses
Apr. 20, 2010, 09:52 AM
Asterix, thanks for a great description!

Someone posted this link on another thread, but check out time stamp 3:38...it's the same fence, different rider, but seems to be a long spot, also. Wow.

http://vimeo.com/5666511

clpony
Apr. 20, 2010, 02:09 PM
I think the purpose of that seat is to demonstrate how well he can ride as compared to 95 % of us! :lol:

Bobthehorse
Apr. 20, 2010, 09:11 PM
That seat just shows what good instincts he has.

My coach says the only really fatal error a rider can make on xc is to get too forward. So when you get into a jam, your first instinct should be to take the back seat, like this. Most horses with the scope can jump with you back there, but put all your weight on their neck, and you will find yourself under a lot of horse....you have to learn to just get out of their way while staying over the saddle so you dont bale. And since he is jumping out of water, the horse is lifting off slower, its even more important to stay back.

My young horse is very skillfully teaching me to do this instinctively when we get into a jam. If I fold as usual, things go to hell. If I ride the back seat and slip my reins, he manages to get himself out of trouble.

Lkramer
Apr. 21, 2010, 12:53 PM
Perfectly said Asterix. The way he has given the horse its face in this situation is a lovely example of a true horseman. A novice rider would have hung on his mouth to balance up, and the horse would have hollowed out into a "U" shape, but here, Buck's horses is still round and using himself correctly.

mustangsal85
Apr. 21, 2010, 01:22 PM
I agree. It really is an awesome picture.