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View Full Version : The best pedigree for eventing ever, or a jumble of meaningless fancy names?



piccolittle
Apr. 4, 2010, 09:34 PM
Okay, this one is for real. I'm working on it right now... but obviously I need to know how this pedigree pans out for eventing. Am I blinded by the famous names or could this one really be a star? Please, be super critical-- I really, really can't afford another horse! I'm especially interested in temperament, movement, and jumping ability.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/split+city

PineTreeFarm
Apr. 4, 2010, 09:57 PM
Okay, this one is for real. I'm working on it right now... but obviously I need to know how this pedigree pans out for eventing. Am I blinded by the famous names or could this one really be a star? Please, be super critical-- I really, really can't afford another horse! I'm especially interested in temperament, movement, and jumping ability.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/split+city

With the exception of Fappiano most of the names in the pedigree are not sport horse lines or the sport horse types are too far back in the pedigree to make a difference.
Well known race horses do not always = sporthorses.

piccolittle
Apr. 4, 2010, 11:46 PM
I thought Pleasant Tap was good for sporthorses?

Is there anything in particular I should be aware of; lines that are risky for soundness, perhaps?

He should be pretty quiet, right, given that Fappiano and Pleasant Colony are known for good minds?

Coppers mom
Apr. 5, 2010, 01:15 AM
I like Fappiano, Pleasant Tap, and Nijinsky right up close. I've had varied Unbridled and Theatrical horses, the mare really seemed to make a difference with them.

Further back, I like Le Fabuleux, Flaming Page (she's done quite well producing-wise), Blushing Groom, and Stage Door Johnny. One of the old broodmares went back to Never Knock, though closer up, and she was quite nice.

Even further back, there are good horses like Wild Risk, In Reality, Bull Page, Ribot, Prince John, and Herbager.

The breeding's there, but looking at the horse in front of you, especially with TB's, is more important than papers.

PineTreeFarm
Apr. 5, 2010, 10:11 AM
I thought Pleasant Tap was good for sporthorses?



Anything by Pleasant Tap was not bred to be a sport horse. At a stud fee of 10K-12K that isn't happening.
He was a very good race horse and has produced over 800 offspring not all of whom have had racing careers. The ones that do compete as sporthorses are horses looking for a new job, not horses bred for sport.

I've never seen anything by him listed with USEF on the leading sire lists although there are a number of posts on this forum claiming that he produces hunters, jumpers, and eventers. When challenged the poster usually backs off and says the offspring 'look' like they should be sporthorses.
He does come from a line of horses that have produced horses that have done well in sport. But again, they were not being bred for sport, they are race track rejects.

If anyone has info on Pleasant Tap horse that have done well as sport horses ( and not 2'6" horses) I'd be glad to hear about it.

Callaway
Apr. 5, 2010, 10:13 AM
I am not much of a TB person anymore, but I love Pleasant Colony and his offspring. The ones I have ridden are definite sport horse type.

piccolittle
Apr. 5, 2010, 10:13 AM
Thanks such much for the input! Guess I got a little overexcited :yes:

kookicat
Apr. 5, 2010, 10:22 AM
You don't ride the papers. What is the horse like?

piccolittle
Apr. 5, 2010, 10:25 AM
You don't ride the papers. What is the horse like?

I'm still in the ogling stages, but...

http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1857:split-city&catid=58:pa-trainer-listings&directory=305

Critique?

kookicat
Apr. 5, 2010, 11:11 AM
I'd pass for an event horse. He's quite short backed, I'm not a huge fan of his legs or his neck. His shoulder and hip angles are quite nice though.

I think there are better prospects in the listings.

I wish that there were better pictures of Song Sparrow (http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1975:song-sparrow&catid=58:pa-trainer-listings&directory=305). I also like Flynnstone (http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1971:flynnstone&catid=58:pa-trainer-listings&directory=305).

goodpony
Apr. 5, 2010, 11:30 AM
I just took some new pictures of our Pleasant Tap daughter--she is being prepared for her AHS MPT and was very well received at her visual inspection.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1125979&l=644b185cb2&id=1021903725
Her owner has turned down offers from several BNT as an upper level eventing prospect. She is just getting started eventing but has successfully completed one combined test and one lower level horse trial. Considering she is starting from scratch with only six months of dressage/jumping she is doing very well. She has excellent gaits and could easily be groomed up the levels in dressage.
It looks like Bruce Davidson Sr. was riding a Pleasant Tap son in 2008

Hidden Brook, B. g., 16.1, 2001, Pleasant Tap (TB)—Copperama (TB)
Owner: Bruce Davidson Sr.
Rider: Owner
Top 3 finishes: 1st place Intermediate: Poplar Place Farm March Horse Trials (Ga.).

Coppers mom
Apr. 5, 2010, 11:34 AM
Anything by Pleasant Tap was not bred to be a sport horse. At a stud fee of 10K-12K that isn't happening.
He was a very good race horse and has produced over 800 offspring not all of whom have had racing careers. The ones that do compete as sporthorses are horses looking for a new job, not horses bred for sport.

I've never seen anything by him listed with USEF on the leading sire lists although there are a number of posts on this forum claiming that he produces hunters, jumpers, and eventers. When challenged the poster usually backs off and says the offspring 'look' like they should be sporthorses.
He does come from a line of horses that have produced horses that have done well in sport. But again, they were not being bred for sport, they are race track rejects.

If anyone has info on Pleasant Tap horse that have done well as sport horses ( and not 2'6" horses) I'd be glad to hear about it.

Sorry, but this made me giggle.

First of all, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of sires one would look for in a TB's pedigree were never bred for anything but racing, and had a huge stud fee that kept sport horse breeders away. But, they became influential anyway because they were quality animals and they passed that on to their offspring.

Second, and I know this might sound crazy, but the TB is bred mainly for racing. I know, it's crazy! But because of this, the vast majority of great TB's that we know are just racetrack rejects looking for a new job. Are their accomplishments somehow less, or are they somehow not sport horses because they did something different before coming onto that scene? Should their lineage not be noted?

And last, and I can't believe I have to say this since it's been gone over so many times on this forum, the USEF database sucks. A lot of people don't record their horses parents, change their names, etc etc. I wouldn't discount a stallion just because he's not listed on there.

I don't really understand this rant against PT. Sounds more like you've got some sort of vendetta than anything.

piccolittle
Apr. 5, 2010, 11:54 AM
I'd pass for an event horse. He's quite short backed, I'm not a huge fan of his legs or his neck. His shoulder and hip angles are quite nice though.

I think there are better prospects in the listings.

I wish that there were better pictures of Song Sparrow (http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1975:song-sparrow&catid=58:pa-trainer-listings&directory=305). I also like Flynnstone (http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1971:flynnstone&catid=58:pa-trainer-listings&directory=305).

I was thinking about Song Sparrow too, and I'd also like to see better pictures. As it is, he looks a bit long to me, as though he'd have trouble collecting... he looks somehow disconnected in the second picture. I love that he's already been hunting though!

I'm interested; what do you dislike about the other horses legs, and why would you be looking for a longer back? For education's sake :)

kookicat
Apr. 5, 2010, 12:53 PM
I was thinking about Song Sparrow too, and I'd also like to see better pictures. As it is, he looks a bit long to me, as though he'd have trouble collecting... he looks somehow disconnected in the second picture. I love that he's already been hunting though!

I'm interested; what do you dislike about the other horses legs, and why would you be looking for a longer back? For education's sake :)

There's nothing wrong with a short back, really. I just like them a smidge longer because it makes the paces smoother to ride. I've also found a slightly longer back to give more scope- nothing scientific to it, just what I've seen with my own and other people's horses. :)

Split City's legs are a little light on bone for my taste, especially taking into account how he would look fully muscled and event fit. He's also fairly long in the cannon and pastern which is something I try to stay away from in eventers because there's a lot of strain on those legs running XC and jumping.

Hope this helps. :)

omare
Apr. 5, 2010, 12:58 PM
ditto to copper mom observations-he goes at least twice to wild risk, theatrical takes you to percipitation, stage door johnny to prince john, you see never bend war relic etc, plus he is from mare family 1x.

As for a short back--that is great for those of us that have trouble "packaging" our horses-hence why I love short backed horses -the long strung out ones tend to stay that way with me on their backs :-)