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byrtness
Mar. 20, 2010, 08:15 PM
I've been riding for 50 years (serious dressage rider for 20+) and only recently ever came across someone teaching students to stand for a beat to change posting diagonals, instead of sitting an extra beat to change. I have done this with young horses, to stay lighter on their backs on occasion, but have never until now heard a professional teach all of their students this way, regardless of horse or rider ability. Any thoughts on this?

BaroquePony
Mar. 20, 2010, 08:21 PM
Actually it two beats either way. I'd rather sit on a more experienced horse, better control.

SillyHorse
Mar. 20, 2010, 08:51 PM
I've never heard of it taught as the norm, and I've been around just about as long as you have.

Velvet
Mar. 20, 2010, 09:20 PM
I've been around forever, too. I always teach to sit two beats.

caddym
Mar. 21, 2010, 07:14 AM
Pam Goodrich teaches this as an exercise for rider balance and coordination

SillyHorse
Mar. 21, 2010, 08:54 AM
It's a great exercise for just that. But to teach it as a method to use matter of course for changing diagonals, never heard of it.

Koni
Mar. 21, 2010, 04:32 PM
It has been around forever. I teach both sitting and standing to change.

For a student that can't control the trot tempo by posting and just follows the horse, standing helps to teach them how to control the posting tempo.

I too have been around for 50 plus and can tell you this is nothing new. Instructors that teach riders and horses to go from the seat use this method.

goeslikestink
Mar. 21, 2010, 04:47 PM
I've been riding for 50 years (serious dressage rider for 20+) and only recently ever came across someone teaching students to stand for a beat to change posting diagonals, instead of sitting an extra beat to change. I have done this with young horses, to stay lighter on their backs on occasion, but have never until now heard a professional teach all of their students this way, regardless of horse or rider ability. Any thoughts on this?

haha its sit for two beats to change diaganols if they triane is telling you to stand then sorry she/he doesnt know very much

the best trianers will teach you how to use the half halt stride during every transition if they cant show you that or tell you how to or explain what it does then ditch the trianer

i am sayiny this so you can ask yourself or judge for yourself incorrectness from a trianer then the students are students are paying money for old rope

goeslikestink
Mar. 21, 2010, 04:50 PM
It has been around forever. I teach both sitting and standing to change.

For a student that can't control the trot tempo by posting and just follows the horse, standing helps to teach them how to control the posting tempo.

I too have been around for 50 plus and can tell you this is nothing new. Instructors that teach riders and horses to go from the seat use this method.

maybe but as there always a but one doesnt stand in there stirrups to do the rising trot as then you would have to much of a gap between your arse and the saddle its a small movement not a huge one and thus is perhaps why people find the rising trot so hard when it doesnt need to be

SuffolkRider
Mar. 21, 2010, 05:12 PM
Pam Goodrich is a wonderful, effective trainer! Standing to change is not easy if you are unbalanced or have a poor position. There is no more gap between your arse and the saddle than there is just posting.
Try it!

caddym
Mar. 21, 2010, 06:07 PM
Pam Goodrich is a wonderful, effective trainer! Standing to change is not easy if you are unbalanced or have a poor position. There is no more gap between your arse and the saddle than there is just posting.
Try it!

Very good point. This past summer, I worked for a months with a trainer - who while not a BNT has trained 3 horses to GP and competed in the GP at this years dressage at devon.

So..... she watched as I first warmed up and changed diagonal by rising. the next day- out of curiosity - SHE tried and found she could not.

Pam Goodrich IS ann effective trainer - and very smart

Mallard
Mar. 21, 2010, 06:34 PM
My now-retired, fairly stern, but classical BHS coach always wanted riders to change posting diagonals by staying up a beat, instead of sitting.

Another favorite of his was the 'waltzing trot', which is to sit a beat, then stay up for 2 beats, then sit....up, up, down / up, up, down

Try it...it's not easy!

alicen
Mar. 21, 2010, 07:15 PM
Another favorite of his was the 'waltzing trot', which is to sit a beat, then stay up for 2 beats, then sit....up, up, down / up, up, down

Try it...it's not easy!

Thanks, really looking forward to trying this.

BaroquePony
Mar. 21, 2010, 07:31 PM
I'm feeling grumpy.

Most of these exercises really have to do with training the rider.

My point being that the rider should already be trained BEFORE he/she begins to train the horse ("dressage").

Not that you shouldn't always practice these various exercises, but I don't get the feeling that there is any understanding of the separation of the two, and there really should be.

Chall
Mar. 21, 2010, 07:50 PM
I had a trainer make me do waltzing trots (varying between 2 3 and 4 beats). Funny, I can't count or feel the horses feet going down, but can feel them going up, can't do the exercise when told how often to sit, but can when told how often I should rise.

whbar158
Mar. 21, 2010, 08:15 PM
I do it both depending on the horse and what they are doing, I personally stand more often than sit and I have no idea where I learned it. I think I saw someone do it one day and tried it and I like it better. My horse is very quiet and always looking for an excuse to not do work, I find that when I stand instead of sit he keeps his rhythm better. Some I sit to settle or I stand if they are sensitive totally depends on the horse.

ESG
Mar. 21, 2010, 08:24 PM
Pam Goodrich teaches this as an exercise for rider balance and coordination

Absolutely - that's where I learned it. Works wonders for getting a rider's leg under them where it belongs. I started teaching it as soon as I audited my first clinic with her. :yes:

ESG
Mar. 21, 2010, 08:28 PM
I'm feeling grumpy.

Most of these exercises really have to do with training the rider.

My point being that the rider should already be trained BEFORE he/she begins to train the horse ("dressage").

Even a "trained" rider can get out of balance, especially if that rider is schooling greenies. If I'm feeling a bit off when I've started my trot work, I do this exercise to make sure my leg is in a proper position to support my body weight. And I'm a "trained" rider. ;)


Not that you shouldn't always practice these various exercises, but I don't get the feeling that there is any understanding of the separation of the two, and there really should be.

What, the separation of training horse and rider? I don't think anyone's unclear on that. We're not talking about training the horse with this exercise, after all.

Gry2Yng
Mar. 21, 2010, 08:31 PM
Interesting. I ran into the first person I know to do this last summer. H/J rider. Forgot about it. She just does it, but doesn't teach that way - as far a I have seen.

Draftygirl
Mar. 21, 2010, 09:10 PM
haha its sit for two beats to change diaganols if they triane is telling you to stand then sorry she/he doesnt know very much

the best trianers will teach you how to use the half halt stride during every transition if they cant show you that or tell you how to or explain what it does then ditch the trianer

i am sayiny this so you can ask yourself or judge for yourself incorrectness from a trianer then the students are students are paying money for old rope

Excuse my anality, but you misspelled "train -- trainer" at least four times. That in itself disqualifies you as a trainer.

BaroquePony
Mar. 21, 2010, 09:13 PM
Posted by byrtness:

Changing Posting Diagonals

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been riding for 50 years (serious dressage rider for 20+) and only recently ever came across someone teaching students to stand for a beat to change posting diagonals, instead of sitting an extra beat to change. I have done this with young horses, to stay lighter on their backs on occasion, but have never until now heard a professional teach all of their students this way, regardless of horse or rider ability. Any thoughts on this?

ESG, I was addressing the OP's post. Your post relative to my post just sounded more like a reiteration of what I said :yes:

ETA: if riding a test, and using your best postition during a test, I would would not take the option of rising 2 beats OVER sitting 2 beats.

BaroquePony
Mar. 21, 2010, 09:18 PM
Draftygirl, goeslikestink is very knowledgeable, she just has some type of reading/writing challenge.

ThreeFigs
Mar. 21, 2010, 09:25 PM
I've heard the "waltzing" trot (thanks for that moniker -- it's new to me!) is a good one for helping a horse loosen its back.

In Minnesota, the trainer used to have us vary the posting -- two strides posting, then two sitting, then one posting, three sitting -- endless variations.

Good for the rider, good for the horse, too.

Dressage_Julie
Mar. 22, 2010, 09:24 AM
The Sally Swift Centered riding method also uses this exercise. I do not think it is bad or good, just an other way to do things. I do not think it refelcts poorly on a trainer. It really depends on the student and why the trainer is teaching this... to know that the OP would have to ask the trainer!

aurorag16
Mar. 22, 2010, 10:06 AM
I change my diagonals by standing an extra beat in my warm-up. I want to spend as little time on my horse's back as possible as he is warming-up and stretching, and I find by staying up an extra beat, I stay out of his way a little more. That being said, once we start working for real, I go back to sitting my diagonal changes.

Phaxxton
Mar. 22, 2010, 10:24 AM
Excuse my anality, but you misspelled "train -- trainer" at least four times. That in itself disqualifies you as a trainer.

goeslikestink has been very open about the fact that she is severely dyslexic.

byrtness
Mar. 22, 2010, 10:41 AM
Thanks for all of your input. Very interesting. Yes, I have also done "forever" the exercize of alternating sitting and "standing" or 2 beats sitting, two standing, or alternating posting/2-point/sitting, etc...., but it was just new to me to see someone teaching all students at all levels to stand for a simple, single change of posting diagonal. Not negative about it, just curious.

myvanya
Mar. 22, 2010, 10:41 AM
I use both methods and teach both methods when I work with kids. My initial training was as an h/j rider but I find that the standing two beats method creates a smoother impression and was often used in equitation when I rode in equitation classes (and that totally makes me sound old :lol:).
I use whichever change fits better in my dressage tests depending on where or when the change happens. If I cross center line in a figure eight over x and I am up in the air when I want to change the bend, I stay up a beat, if I am sitting I stay down a beat. That way my change occurs exactly when I need it to. Maybe I am just not a good enough rider to be able to sit every time at the dead center of the arena, but I would rather have the timing I want than care about how I go about the change. JMHO.

I think a trainer who only teaches the up two beats diagonal change would be remiss, however I don't dismiss that type of diagonal change out of hand, in fact I like it very much. :)

NOMIOMI1
Mar. 22, 2010, 10:49 AM
Lots of riders struggle with keeping their own tempo and letting the horse direct the traffic so to speak.

This is just a way of strengthening those subtle "wait for me" muscles. I like it :)

THIS, is another way of seeing if a rider SHOULD be sitting the trot yet as well. If they have no balance from their top half, then you know they are sitting in a "lean" instead of a nice light draping seat :yes:


Thanks for the reminder, will do... Although, we sometimes stand longer than even the two beats to get this worked out.