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Mukluk
Mar. 20, 2010, 12:23 AM
So...... I don't know much about dressage. My question is this. What would happen if you asked a well trained dressage horse to stop! from a medium or faster canter/gallop. Where would the weight be? I doubt this is ever asked of dressage horses but I am just curious. Appreciate anyone's responses/thoughts on this.

J-Lu
Mar. 20, 2010, 12:31 AM
I'm guessing the weight will be where you ask the horse/set the horse up for it to be: anywhere between a heap on the forehand and nicely on the hind end. It depends on your riding. ??

smithywess
Mar. 20, 2010, 01:18 AM
As long as the horse has been trained in collection then the application of both rider's legs well behind the girth, during the stop, will bring the horse's hind legs under it and it will stop with a balance on the hind end. Prior to the development of collection the only way this balance can be approached is to elevate the head and neck,with the hand, as a balancing pole as the stop is asked for. In both instances the hand will shut down forward movement in a light horse.

goeslikestink
Mar. 20, 2010, 05:40 AM
I'm guessing the weight will be where you ask the horse/set the horse up for it to be: anywhere between a heap on the forehand and nicely on the hind end. It depends on your riding. ??

echo

Lambie Boat
Mar. 20, 2010, 10:51 PM
I saw Ulla ride Rusty from an extended trot to a passage at the World Equestrian Games in Rome (1998) :eek::eek: Never saw it before or since, totally blew my mind (weight was behind) Don't know how that is done w/o grinding his gears or keeping him sound

Beentheredonethat
Mar. 20, 2010, 10:59 PM
The place it should be is on the hind end. I've done it, and I've seen it done many times in freestyles. Reining and cutting horses do it all of the time.

Lambie--extended trot to passage is part of the Grand Prix test. Everyone is supposed to do it.

hoopoe
Mar. 20, 2010, 11:08 PM
J-Lu has it right, while the horse may know that the correct place to be is weight to the rear, the rider determines where it will actually be.

If the rider does not have the skill to place the horse there, it would likely not consistently go there. Some are so obedient they know the proper way and over-ride an unskilled riders attempts.

Mukluk
Mar. 21, 2010, 02:40 AM
Would a dressage horse do a sliding stop (weight totally on the hind end) if asked to stop (right now!!!) from a medium canter or gallop?

NOMIOMI1
Mar. 21, 2010, 03:02 AM
A sliding stop (as in reining) is a much lower movement. I mean the actual build and training of the horse is lower.

Dressage horse carriage is not so, a much higher frame so to speak.

So no, probably a sit yes, but jerky. Sliding stops usually are asked for with the shoes that allow that movement across the dirt so it would probably be a train wreck to do that to a large uphill horse without the shoes:)

poltroon
Mar. 21, 2010, 03:26 AM
The sliding stop in reining is kind of artificial and a dressage horse would not halt that way. But, they can stop on a dime, sure. If it was planned, two or three steps at most. You can see videos online of very brilliant transitions from the extended canter to the collected canter, which would give you a good sense of what to expect.

smithywess
Mar. 21, 2010, 01:47 PM
Nothing artificial about the sliding stop in a reining horse,Poltroon. There's no difference in the movement between a large or a smaller horse and yes a 'dressage' horse will slide just the same. Not good,though, to practise this movement too much, in either type of horse, in heavy footing or without sliding plates on the rear hooves. Too much stress on the hocks.

Velvet
Mar. 21, 2010, 02:02 PM
Mukluk, are you asking where the horse's weight would be? Or the rider's weight as an aid?

Equa
Mar. 21, 2010, 04:43 PM
I asked my dressage horse to come back NOW, from medium canter the other day. I was only slightly vigorous (with my outside rein). He stopped totally on his hind legs, with his front legs waving in the air, and me clinging around his neck. Oops.

Lambie Boat
Mar. 21, 2010, 05:21 PM
:lol::D

to BTDT- I did not know that. my bad

Mukluk
Mar. 22, 2010, 12:21 AM
My question was with regard to the horse. My friend, who rides western, wondered how english horses are supposed to stop from a canter. I don't think we normally do this although I have asked my horse to do this as a test of obedience and she does stop (but is at times on her forehand)- like she can't get her weight all the way back and keep it there quite yet- she's a green OTTB. Just want her to be able to stop if we are out on the trail and we need to stop RIGHT NOW. Anyway I was wondering what a well trained dressage horse would do. Thanks for all the input so far.

alibi_18
Mar. 22, 2010, 12:39 AM
They are supposed to stop when the rider ask for it. If its for an emergency then...no matter how the horse stop as long as it does...

As for the 'dressage' horse they have to be trained to halt properly from walk/trot/canter/passage/piaffe/etc. in a certain frame, from appropriate aids in a 'dressage' way.

As for the comparison with slidding stop, they could be able to do it but they aren't trained the same way. They would have to get the slidding plates and have a different neck frame. The contact with the bit is also different.
Keep in mind that reining horses don't always do slidding stops. They have to be able to stop 'normally' as well.

Anyhow, horses should be trained to stop at any time from any gaits.
They should be trained to do it by using their back and hind legs from the most subtle commands of the rider hand, seat and legs.

netg
Apr. 19, 2010, 10:06 AM
My question was with regard to the horse. My friend, who rides western, wondered how english horses are supposed to stop from a canter. I don't think we normally do this although I have asked my horse to do this as a test of obedience and she does stop (but is at times on her forehand)- like she can't get her weight all the way back and keep it there quite yet- she's a green OTTB. Just want her to be able to stop if we are out on the trail and we need to stop RIGHT NOW. Anyway I was wondering what a well trained dressage horse would do. Thanks for all the input so far.

A dressage horse should stop from canter the same way a western horse should - with the same training to get it there, too. Square, softly, weight on the hind end. The top western horsemanship and western riding horses who stop properly have learned to respond to (loose reined) half halts to get them to rock back slightly and get their hind ends under them, and have no problem stopping at exactly the right spot without having transition steps in the middle.

A sliding stop is not how a western horse is "supposed" to stop. It isn't even a full stop - in an emergency I want my horse to have an immediate, balanced halt, not take 15 feet digging trenches in the ground. If you watch top reining horses, they don't cease movement in front as they're stopping, and they travel quite a ways. Many horses do this naturally, but it's not the proper way to stop from a lope in western, either - it's a specialized movement for reining.


As for if it's natural or not - my 16.3, naturally uphill moving, OTTB does sliding stops from full gallop in turnout. Not good for his legs, and it is part of what makes me worry he'll hurt himself, but I do believe in letting a horse be a horse. I think I will buy him skid boots, though, after finding he burned his fetlock sliding one day.

narcisco
Apr. 19, 2010, 10:19 AM
The dressage horse should stop on his hindquarters, but not slide. He would halt in the rhythm of the canter. First one hind leg would halt, then the other squarely beside it along with its diagonal partner. The front legs should feather down lightly. The halt should be immobile and square.

In a test, he would be asked to collect BEFORE he halts, so normally would be halting from an extended canter or gallop. If that were done, it would predispose the horse to falling on his forehand, propping with his front legs and skidding behind. A rider prepares the horse with halt halts to shift the weight back so the horse glides down like an air plane landing smoothly, not nose diving into the dirt.

Valentina_32926
Apr. 19, 2010, 04:19 PM
When I'm cantering/galloping and I ask aggressively for a halt my mare's hind end is so far underneath herself she has to come up in the front end to halt squarely.

If I don't ask agressively she steps underneath herself and "glides" into the halt/walk.

In other words a WELL trained dressage horse will carry weight on it's hind legs.