The FREE horse, help me make the right decision

[NaturalSelection]

I have a horse that I purchased in July 2008 as an UL eventing prospect. Apollo is athletic, gorgeous and fun undersaddle; kind and patient on the ground - he's my dream horse. However, before I purchased him, Apollo had a long, successful and strenuous racing career. Even though Apollo passed his PPE, after nearly two years he has not been sound for more than a month at a time. I won't go into details, but he has a "mystery" LF fetlock lameness -- x-rays are beautiful, no problems w/ soft-tissue, tried shockwave therapy, joint injections, MSM/glucosamine, 24/7 turnout, shoes and no shoes, etc. We have essentially exhausted all treatment options. I gave Apollo a 6-month break - 24/7 turnout from September - February and boarded him at a backyard farm a couple of hours from the city. Last weekend I brought him back to a barn close to my house, cleaned him up and put him on the longe line. Still unsound.

Apollo is a 7yo TB gelding - he has all the attributes of an UL eventer -- spunky and excitable at times, with a bit of a spook - not suitable for a beginner. I have trail ridden Apollo and I feel comfortable taking him out in a group or alone, but again - not for a beginner. Apollo has also developed a bit of a head-shaking allergy that I cannot solve through meds, supplements or nose-nets - it's tolerable with a standing martingale but not for a beginner.

Essentially, Apollo needs a non-riding home...but are there any in this economy? Apollo is comfortable enough to handle light W/T and definitely comfortable enough that I do not feel I need to put him down based on his soundness.

I cannot afford to pay board on this horse for the rest of his natural life. I cannot find him a secure home based on his skills as a riding horse. It sounds like most rescues are flooded and I can't help but admit that horses that can be ridden are easier to place. Apollo is quiet and easy to handle on the ground - great for grooming and cuddling. Is this unrealistic?

Is euthanization the best option to ensure that Apollo doesn't end up starving or at the slaughter yard?

[dalpal]

Sadly enough, I have a sound, 3rd level older TB that I have offered free to the right situation.....have yet to find it.

I would at least advertise him here as a companion horse first and just see...you never know.

Yes, I think euthanization is much better than an uncertain life. However, if he were mine, I would probably scope out and see if there are any reasonbably priced coops or retirement farm situations. You may find someone who would let you keep him cheaply in their backyard.

[Cherry]

You might be able to find him a home with an old lady that only rides for pleasure and will not be hard on him. I'm confident there are people like that out there, but it's very hard to find them sometimes. It has to be someone who won't ride him into the ground, will pay for a vet when he needs it and will see to it that when the end comes she will be with him and not ship him off to some auction....

I would start with horse friends, call your vet, talk to your farrier, etc. I would want to know if this person had ever sold a horse, or sold a horse to auction in the past. I, myself, have actually sold a horse--my first one--to someone I knew... :eek: But since then I have adopted a policy of not doing so. I've adopted a 25 year old pony gelding and bought a hony sized TB mare since then and they were both with me until their dying days.... I couldn't have loved them more if I'd have paid a million bucks for them and they wanted for nothing. :)

If you aren't able to find a home for your horse (and it probably won't be easy) then I would consider euthanization. Yes, it's tough but it's the least you can do for this horse. Only you know how much energy you can expend toward this pursuit..... But find a home word of mouth--know that someone else knows this person and his/her habits in regards to the upkeep of his/her horses. Even then you're taking a gamble.... :(

[Ruth0552]

Your horse could be mine, except mine isn't an UL prospect. Terrible racing career, bought as a 4 year old, got a few good years out of him, then developed off and on front hoof lameness, diagnosed at age 9. Years later developed head shaking issue. Also not for beginner- excitable and explosive at times, can spook. Fortunatly, I have been able to retire him in my backyard, but I'm going broke doing it! He's 17 now, looks much sounder at times, but still explosive.

I do not envy your situation. Try to find him a home as a companion. Could you afford "retirement" boarding somewhere cheaper? Don't think about it as "the rest of his life." Maybe if you sent him off for retirement, and gave him like 3 years off, he might be sound. And you never know what happens with horses- there's no guarantee you will be paying for him into his 20's.

[Petstorejunkie]

lameness on a scale of 1-10?
if you're talking a 1 and the diagnostics check out, i would work him lightly and see what happens. he'll either get better or worse. you've done the legwork to alleviate any guilt you may have. also, you could try wrapping his fetlock with supportive elastikon and see what happens.
I had a horse with a fetlock defect (far worse, like a 5-6 after work) and wrapping it helped him.

[Liberty]

Have you tried chiropractics or acupuncture? Thing is, with either one, it's a crapshoot unless the vet is very skilled in their use. I am very fortunate to have a couple excellent ones in my area for both chiropractic and acupuncture and have had very good success with them.

Might be worth a try since it sounds like you've exhausted all other possible treatments.

[twofatponies]

That sucks. I haven't been in that exact scenario, though my older mare is heading towards retiring this year, and could well live another decade, and I am short of money but want to get another horse...etc. She is not sound to ride much anymore (arthritis, stifles), but I wouldn't euth her unless/until she were not able to be pasture sound without huge maintenance. As it is she is pasture sound with no special treatment except the occasional stifle injections and a little bute on cold damp days. (ETA and we aren't sure she won't improve quite a bit with warmer weather, too).

If it got to a point where she needed some kind of really high maintenance treatment and/or couldn't live outside comfortably and happily, I'd probably euthanize.

Can I afford to keep her boarded for another decade? Technically yes, for now, but it's certainly money I'd love to have for other major expenses. I'd certainly love to save several hundred dollars a month! But it is what it is and later in the spring I will probably move her to a nearby cheaper place - a retirement place, or a friend's backyard barn, which will cut the cost of the board by quite a bit.

Now if she were 7...that would be a tough call. It's different, to my mind, to retire an old horse for a few years of peaceful living, and to maintain a young but un-usable horse for decades. I don't know what I would do. Probably at least do the retirement for a while - a year or two maybe - to see how life goes for him and for you and what options might come up.

Good luck.

[NancyM]

Donate him to a vet college?

[FlashGordon]

Sounds to me like this is a horse that will not be suitable for the typical W/T, trail riding type of rider/owner.

In which case it may be very hard to place him, as that is all he can do at this point.

You can give it a shot at trying to re-home him, but, it may be very difficult. In which case yes I'd say putting him down may be the kindest option. :sadsmile:

[Dalemma]

Since his xrays are clean have you considered or have you checked his selenium levels? I know of two people that had mystery hind end lamenesses and after supplementation with selenium they are now sound......if it is selenium it could actually be a muscle issue.

Dalemma

[bigbaytb]

i had a friends horse who was dead lame when unfit. she was the same and checked 100% sound for PPE and xrayed great. after chiro and slowly working her back, she became sound. the mare liked to just lean on the left shouler 24/7 and never supported herself with the right hind..it took a rider and good chiro to do it...so it may be something you might want to consider....

If a good diagnostic/chiro is out of the picture, then maybe check out a TB retirement farm like TRF (thoroughbred retirement foundation)? it takes a donation, but then you sign the horse over and they either rehab or just turn out til end of days.

[bit-o-honey]

I'm sorry for your tough situation, but applaud you for giving an OTTB a chance. Although you have done a thorough investigation on the fetlock, have you xrayed the foot as well? I assume the vet blocked the leg progressively but in my experience the foot is not fully blocked until the ankle block is done. Since none of your ankle treatments have helped, try another look at the foot. He could have a keratoma or other treatable or manageable foot problem. I have one who is like a new horse when shod with pads, due to her soles being thin.

One horse I owned previously had a seasonal head-shaking issue. He was reactive to the insects that cause sweet itch and although he didn't have a horrible case of sweet itch, he reacted pretty violently to the itching and bites. Does your horse get crusty scabby areas along the center line of his belly? The insects also bite the ears and the base of the tail area. My guy got some relief by simply leaving his ears unclipped and putting Desitin or Vaseline on the crusty scabs on his belly.

There are those occasional ads posted for people needing a companion horse. Thorough reference checks in this situation would be advisable.

Good luck to you and Apollo - he is lucky to have you! :)

[certifiedgirl]

Did you see the article on headshaking in last months Equus? I can't remember the exact details but they found some horses that developed it had injury to the neck, they were doing x-rays where the neck joined the skull, I believe. That could possible to contribute to other lamenesses as well I would think.

I think someone on coth actually linked a really good article (more indepth than the Equus one)- will search and link if I find that thread.

Here it is:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=246046&highlight=headshaking

[Lone]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I'm in a similar spot with my young OTTB mare as well.

I know it's a really hard decision, but I think euthanasia might be your best option. I've already decided it'll be the right choice for my girl and I. I think we're going to try a round of EPM meds just in case, and if that doesn't work... It might kill me in the process, but she's far too wonderful of a horse to ever end up in bad hands or a home that doesn't love and appreciate her as much as she deserves.

Its a really hard position to be in. Good luck.

[sdlbredfan]

Before you give up, have you had his front hooves x-rayed? (I second the recommendation in post 12.) Or, have you tried a different farrier? You've said the fetlock itself checks out OK with the diagnostics, so look elsewhere in the leg or foot. Have you had chiropractic done?

One other thing you may want to do, (be sure to read the story of Leroy on the front page) is visit www.wingedhorsehealing.com and contact Pam Sourelis. It seems Apollo might benefit from both Reiki and from some neuro-muscular retraining. Sometimes horses that have had past injuries may not realize that the injury is healed, and continue to move in such a way that they are 'favoring' or compensating for the injury they no longer have. Whatever you decide, major kudos to you for the efforts you are making on his behalf.

[jetsmom]

If you give him Bute, is he sound? Might rule out a mechanical lameness.

[Catsdorule-sigh]

You've had some good suggestions for further investigation into what might be causing the lameness. Feet x-rays are one.

I had a horse with a front leg issue that kept coming back. (Some swelling and heat, slightly lame) Ultimately, it really was an issue with the diagonal hind leg. Compensation- horse was compensating for a problem with a hind leg in the diagonal front leg. As soon as we got that identified and treated, no more front leg issue. However, although the horse was fine otherwise for flat work, the hind leg issue meant no further jumping. That's when the horse compensated too much.

Also had a chiropractor identify muscle problems on the opposite side of the body from where the injustice occurred with another horse. Horse stepped in a hole, saved itself, but became sore. Muscles opposite the leg that went in the hole were overused and strained in getting that leg out of the hole and a little chiropractic and knowledge healed things up. (We walked and tromped that field 5 times before letting any horses in it :mad:)

I would not give up yet but would consider if what the horse is presenting with really is compensation for something else.

Good luck!

[Timex]

i'd have his selenium and vit E levels checked, as well as a lyme titer pulled. i've seen horses display some really, odd, mysterious lamenesses due to those 3 things.

but to answer your question, if it comes down to it, and you can't find a suitable home that you're comfortable with, euth would def be an option for me, if i was in your shoes.

[TKR]

I saw an ad in the "Wanted" section of warmbloods for sale for a small, private dressage barn that offered a reasonable retirement situation including some farrier, etc. Good luck with helping him -- it's so hard when you don't have your own place and pretty hard when you do and try to take care of them properly. There have been some interesting write up about homeopathic methods/meds that have helped in various situations. Just depends on how much you want to do. You could also review the very lengthy thread about neck threadworms and deworming with a double dose of Equimax at two week intervals. It could provide some relief for the headshaking and it sounds like from the information, the threadworms in the skin areas could cause issues in legs (ligaments, etc.) and eyes, itching, etc. Who knows? Good luck!
PennyG

[jaimebaker]

You might be able to find him a home with an old lady that only rides for pleasure and will not be hard on him. I'm confident there are people like that out there, but it's very hard to find them sometimes.

There are and they aren't all little old ladies. I'm 32 years old, don't ride any more, and have 6 horses. I don't have to be on their backs to enjoy them and I'm not the only person like that either. And YES I have some horses with issues which I sink money into and never even ride. Doesn't matter to me one bit.

Of course, I know I might be a bit rare in the eyes of a bulletin board focused on riding horses but I know quite a few folks just within 10 miles that own horses and don't ride OR breed. Heck my farrier doesn't even ride his own horses and hasn't for a few years. He's not gonna sell them, he just doesn't ride them.

It's not always hard to find folks like us to take on a horse, especially one with issues, but there are more like me out there. I wouldn't give up all hope off the bat. But that's just me:)

[Zu Zu]

So sorry you are in this struggle ~ Jingles for you and your horse ~ hoping you can find him a retirement type home ~ AO Always Optimistic.

[ThoroughbredFancy]

Sadly enough, I have a sound, 3rd level older TB that I have offered free to the right situation.....have yet to find it.

I would at least advertise him here as a companion horse first and just see...you never know.



Someone like me wouldn't mind a horse like that. I've always thought about taking on an oldster that just needed light work and overall maintenance in their older age. However, I just can't at this time because I am tied to my youngster. Someday when I have the money, or I am not so tied into another horse I wouldn't mind one similar to the one listed above.

In fact, if the woman who is half leasing my guy ever decides she would want to buy him and I agreed I'd probably be in the market for an older horse. As much as I love my young athletes, sometimes, I wouldn't mind a change of pace and the chance to help an older guy/gal.

[sketcher]

Sounds to me like this is a horse that will not be suitable for the typical W/T, trail riding type of rider/owner.



Do you assume most trail riders are walk/trot kind of riders? The OP states that she has ridden the horse on trails, he sounds like he would be fine for an experienced rider.

Geesh, when I think of the riders I've known who are afraid to ride anything outside or a ring or arena or the number of horses that I have trail ridden that were a blast to ride - again - owned by people who were afraid for some reason to ride them on trail...and I mean 'real' riding....not w/t down a nice, dirt lane.

If he is not suitable for your 'typical' trail rider, then he is also not suitable for your 'typical' dressage or hunter or eventer or whatever.

[NaturalSelection]

Thanks for all the kind thoughts.

For those of you that have offered, this horse has had both front hooves x-rayed (as well as both hocks and both stifles) -- frustratingly, everything looks clean and beautiful on x-ray (I've got the film to prove it!). But don't worry, that didn't stop us from injecting stifles, croup and fetlocks in the hopes of making this horse more comfortable. We've done extensive chiro with a really reputable gal, no help.

I left out details that I didn't think were pertinent to the topic (the horse is lame and he's not going to recover) - but I don't want to seem as though I haven't covered all my bases. Apollo toes-out pretty significantly on his RF and RH - and he paddles on his RF. I believe this resulted in some joint capsule trauma to his LF fetlock (probably bludgeoned his LF fetlock w/ his RF hoof) which caused the osselot/calcification on the medial side of his LF fetlock. Apollo's problem is definitely the LF fetlock as he is extremely sensitive to flexion and has some joint effusion even after very light work (20 min of W/T). Apollo is probably a 5/10 lameness if he's in regular work -- pull him out of the pasture after 6 mo of rest and he's a 1/10. We've done MSM, glucoasmine, adequan and legend.

The headshaking is a lesser problem compared to the fetlock issue, but is worth mentioning as it adds to his complications undersaddle (especially from June - September), which particularly makes me think it's allergies. I have read the recent articles regarding headshaking. However, I just don't see the point of chasing down that problem unless I can solve the LF fetlock soundness.

I posted on the giveaways board and I'll do so on our local bulletin board (TCCT list) as well. Craigslist scares me - the worst would be for Apollo to wind up in the wrong hands.

Sketcher, you are exactly the kind of rider I need. Did I mention that while Apollo was convalescing last summer I used him as a pony horse out on the trail for a couple of youngsters? Apollo was fabulous. I think the trouble is that most people who CAN ride a horse like Apollo would not want to be limited by his physical soundness.

Jamiebaker, I would PAY someone like you to take Apollo under your wing. Apollo is very social and thrives on attention, grooming, cuddling, fussing.

[mvp]

I'll try to stay on the kind side of the rant I have brewing. OP, if you just can't take that right now, skip to the bottom.

Rant on:

But I don't get the "I can't afford to pay for him for the rest of his life." Was that true always because he was a sales horse? Or is that true now that he's done at 7? Would this be different if her 17 (and had served you well) or 17 (and had been a PITA for a long time)?

I only ask because people play fast and loose with the term "can't afford."

I can financially afford to own one riding horse at a time. Can I emotionally afford to nix my semi-retired 17-year-old to get another horse that would more assuredly take me where I want to go? I don't know. But I'm clear about the difference.

All of us would agree that euthanasia is acceptable (even great) for horses currently suffering when the prognosis for anything better is too poor or treatment too expensive. I'd go one step further in that I'd argue that euthanizing a horse that's likely to suffer in the future because the odds are that he'll end up in the wrong hands is ok, too. Not everyone would agree and sometimes a super-conservative approach will kill a horse that just maybe could have found the right home.

Rant off:

In the OP's position, I'd do a few things.

First, I'd take some time to get over the shock of bringing a horse back from the last-ditch effort (a long TO) that didn't work. It's a tough place.

Second, I'd find a cheap but acceptable place to turn him out for a year or more if you think there's some soft-tissue damage in the mix. I have known some really crippled horses who came back to a surprising extent with a little long-term ignoring.

Last, I guess I'd see how my wallet, my head and my heart felt about finding a long-term retirement pasture versus euthanasia. Depending on the horse, the attentiveness of the owner and the part of the country, reasonable retirement board can be had.

[lms671]

There are TB retirement places out there that will take him on. Or try the John Henry retirement center I can get more info ...but I think if you go to the KY Horse Park site you should be able to find a link.

[lms671]

Here is the web address http://www.kyehc.org/index.html. Hope this helps!

[jaimebaker]

Jamiebaker, I would PAY someone like you to take Apollo under your wing. Apollo is very social and thrives on attention, grooming, cuddling, fussing.


And here I thought I was gonna get blasted for owning horses and not riding! I'm ok with it and my horses sure don't have any problems with it. I wanted to be a breeder once upon a time but well...I've got every horse I've ever bred for in the last 17 years (yes horses we bred for when I was in my teens, I still own). One day, if I'm ever financially stable I would really like to have a 'retirement' place and take on the oldies or the injured. We have 140 acres and plenty of room but money is always an issue just with the 6 we have. Good gracious, if I rode I'd just be more broke (money wise and probably body wise):lol: My horses are pretty happy with being fed, groomed, having hooves picked out and just being horses. One day I may hop on again, but I'm in no hurry and love them just as much from the ground.

Another place and time and I'd help you out. We play the lotto, so hey things could always change:)

I did just want to post to say don't give up hope. There are some people out there who just relish in the smell of a horse. There are folks who don't even ride that just like seeing horses out the window. And there are those that are all that and actually keep up on horse care. My big concerns with a lot of folks with 'pasture pets' is because they aren't riding or using them they think the care should slack off as well. My horses still get trimmed on a 6 week schedule, still get shots in the spring and still get teeth floated and all other care even though they are just expensive pasture pets. I just know I'm not the only one. I will send many prayers and good mojo your way that if you can rehome him you can find someone similar that just enjoys the company of a horse but will still spend the money to keep the horse comfy and healthy. I expect to get flamed for that but really, if the horse can live its life and enjoy its days so long as it's not ridden, I'm all for it. Certainly if the horse can not get around in the pasture by himself that's a different ballgame. Good luck to you and I'm sorry you are going through this difficult decision.

[lindasp62]

And here I thought I was gonna get blasted for owning horses and not riding! I'm ok with it and my horses sure don't have any problems with it. I wanted to be a breeder once upon a time but well...I've got every horse I've ever bred for in the last 17 years (yes horses we bred for when I was in my teens, I still own). One day, if I'm ever financially stable I would really like to have a 'retirement' place and take on the oldies or the injured. We have 140 acres and plenty of room but money is always an issue just with the 6 we have. Good gracious, if I rode I'd just be more broke (money wise and probably body wise):lol: My horses are pretty happy with being fed, groomed, having hooves picked out and just being horses. One day I may hop on again, but I'm in no hurry and love them just as much from the ground.

Another place and time and I'd help you out. We play the lotto, so hey things could always change:)

I did just want to post to say don't give up hope. There are some people out there who just relish in the smell of a horse. There are folks who don't even ride that just like seeing horses out the window. And there are those that are all that and actually keep up on horse care. My big concerns with a lot of folks with 'pasture pets' is because they aren't riding or using them they think the care should slack off as well. My horses still get trimmed on a 6 week schedule, still get shots in the spring and still get teeth floated and all other care even though they are just expensive pasture pets. I just know I'm not the only one. I will send many prayers and good mojo your way that if you can rehome him you can find someone similar that just enjoys the company of a horse but will still spend the money to keep the horse comfy and healthy. I expect to get flamed for that but really, if the horse can live its life and enjoy its days so long as it's not ridden, I'm all for it. Certainly if the horse can not get around in the pasture by himself that's a different ballgame. Good luck to you and I'm sorry you are going through this difficult decision.

Jaimebaker... I applaud your philosophy and the horses in your care are lucky! Since I am not in a position to buy a farm and take in many "retirees" on my own (although I do have 2), it is the main reason why I do what I do with my foundation...primarily so I can help other horses in their retirement. Personally, I "take care" of my own more than I ride, put more $$ into them than most people would, and take on "projects". No flaming from me here!!! I think horses deserve a dignified retirment.

And to the OP, you are to be commended for not giving up on him and all exploring all avenues, and I hope you can make this situation the best for your horse in the future. You might want to contact some of the TB rescue/rehab/replacement facilities and tell them about Apollo and what they could recommend. PM me if you need some suggestions. However, if he will never be sound again, and you cannot find him a new situation where you will be sure that he will not end up down the line in a bad situation, euthanasia is not an unkind option. However, I am sure there is someone out there that would just love the guy. My last horse I got was a re-hab project, aged, no future career...but now a w-t "schoolmaster" who I pop on when the mood strikes me! People like us are out there! Good luck to you both.

[ivy62]

I understand how you feel. I have an OTTB that was supposed to be my forever horse...He was wonderful and then he got hurt. Everyone told me to put him down he would never be sound.. Well after 4 years of extensive research on my part I think we have isolated the problem and now we are working. Slowly but sometimes things are not as they seem...The right hind was always off.. He dragged the toe and then would not aloow the leg to follow through..Anyway, without getting into all the details there might be something else to look at or have a few different eyes try...If all else fails have you thought about Old Friends in KY or Saratoga Springs NY? They are some retirement places that would take good care if they have room....you said he had a somewhat successful career as a racehorse maybe they could help you..

[Southernlawyer]

Is euthanization the best option to ensure that Apollo doesn't end up starving or at the slaughter yard?

Yes, but a horse is a responsibility and when you buy a horse, you assume responsibility for it. A horse is not a car or some other inanimate object, but a living, sentient being and you can't just kill it, if it doesn't work out.

The fact is that you can afford to keep this horse - if the horse were sound, you would. You just don't want to keep the horse, because you can't ride it. There's a big difference though between can't and don't want to. Killing your horse because you can't ride it is wrong. If you can live with yourself, go ahead.

It's not that I'm not sympathetic, however. I had a horse that I didn't want and who was unsound. I didn't like him and I didn't want him and I certainly didn't want to pay hundreds of dollars a month in board and ancillary bills for him. I did, however. Over $5000 dollars later, I finally found a home for him.

I am happy with the horse I have now, and thanks to this experience, I will never get a second one. Once you get a horse, it's yours for better or worse. I have plenty of friends in this situation too. They haven't killed their horses, however, and even if they were tempted, the horse community where I come from would shun them for it, if they actually did it. Maybe Southerners have a stronger sense of horsemanship - in any event, I don't see why you should be different from the rest of us who are/ have been stuck with unwanted horses and have kept them, because it was the right thing to do.

[Cindyg]

...Once you get a horse, it's yours for better or worse....

While I'm fairly comfortable agreeing that this is my personal philosphy as well, I would never assert that it's some sort of universal law. Nor would I offer it as admonition to someone with a 7YO lame horse.

You also have to think of the rider's window of opportunity. Let's assume the OP is 30. Let's assume she can only afford one horse at a time. Let's assume Apollo lives to be 27. Given this scenario, the OP won't ride again until she is 50. (Hope I got the math right! LOL! But you get my point.)

Riding is a limited window. I'm 48, so I know what I'm talking about. A lot of my friends my age who rode as teenagers wouldn't dream of getting on a horse at this age.

This is a tough scenario that could face any of us. But I don't think there are any universal laws stating that once you buy a horse you're obliged to care for it until it dies a natural death. You're kind of asking the OP to trade her own equestrian career for the horse's. That's a tough decision.