Racing 101

[foundationmare]

How would you interpret the following?

DP=5-1-2-0-0 (8) DI=7.00 CD=1.38 GSV=46.09

I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks

[Lord Helpus]

I can get close enough to make both of us dangerous.

These numbers represent the horse's Dosage Profile. Whoever it was who invented Dosage came up with 5 categories of quality horses -- based on the distance of racing they excelled at (their stamina v. speed).

He then decided which horses were worthy of being given a designation (such as "Chef de Race") and which designation(s) the horse got. When you look at a horse's pedigree, if a horse's sire has dosage points, he is given full credit in the appropriate category because he is in the first generation. A grandsire gets 1/2 his dosage points credited in the category appropriate to him and so on.

In this exapmple of the DP (Dosage Profile) the horse has ancestors which cumulatively total 5 sprinting points (the farthest left column), 1 medium short distance point and 2 middle distance points.


This means that there is virtually NO distance blood in his pedigree. The only "distance" blood is 1/2 of the 2 points of the middle number, which is always split 50/50 into the sprint and distance categories.

The (8) following these numbers is just a total of the 5+1+2.

The next set of numbers is the Dosage Index. This number gives you an idea of the balance of speed v. distance in a horse's pedigree. To get the index, the numbers in the 2 left columns plus 1/2 of the number in the center column are divided by the numbers in the 2 right hand columns plus half the numbers in the center column.

In this case, that gives you 5+1+1 divided by 1 = 7

The higher the number, the more of a sprinter pedigree a horse has. The lower the number, the more stamina the horse has in his pedigree. The only time most people ever hear about dosage is during the Ky Derby: It is a commonly held belief that a horse with a dosage greater than 4 cannot win the Derby.

The CD is the center of distribution. It tells you how closely the numbers are grouped toward the center v. at the outer columns.

GSV I have heard of but do not understand... Sorry.

[libgrrl]

LH,

Great job!!!

Now try "dual qualifiers"! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Toadie's mom]

What's a "Wonk"?!!!!!

[Louise]

Gosh! An explanation that even I can understand.

I've asked Erin to put this thread in the archives when people are through posting on it. That way, we'll be able to point people to it when dosage questions arise again.

Now, anyone want to take a shot at those histories that hobie cat is so nice to put up all the time?

[Jessi P]

Louise, I usually refer folks back to this (http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=6656094911&f=9106053911&m=711203953&r=435205953#435205953) thread so I dont have to keep 'splaining how to interpret an APR all of the time..... will copy and paste so at least its on the same thread and easy to find.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Jessi

posted Aug. 03, 2004 08:36 PM
I will use this one for an explanation:

1997 French Reign,f,Miswaki 4 35 1 13 8 83,702 ( 83) 1.10
North America Turf Record 5 0 1 2 7,860 ( 81)
North America Dirt Sprints 12 0 7 1 30,095 ( 80)
North America Dirt Routes 18 1 5 5 45,747 ( 83)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 1 0 1,501 ( 73)
DP = 11-5-13-1-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.87 AWD = 8.32
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 1998 1452 $75,000 $112,796 ylg (16/27) $35,000

French Reign, a 1997 mare by Miswaki, ran during 4 calendar years making 35 starts, with 1 win, 13 seconds, 8 thirds earning 83,702. Her highest speed rating was 83, and her SSI (Standard Starts Index) was 1.10. Then its broken down by category.. for example the next line is turf. She ran 5 times with 0 wins, 1 second and 2 thirds on turf earning 7,860. Her highest speed rating on turf was an 81 (close to her personal best of 83). Same thing for the next line on dirt sprints (Less than a mile) and the following line on dirt routes (mile or over). And finally they tell you how she ran on an "off" (muddy/sloppy) track (1 start, 1 second). IF she had run as a 2 yo they would have had that above the line for turf, but this mare didnt race as a 2 yo.

Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 1998 1452 $75,000 $112,796 ylg (16/27) $35,000

She was sold at Keeneland Sept yearling sale in 98 as Hip # 1452 for $75k against her sires yearling average of 112,796 for that year. Out of 27 Miswaki yearlings sold that year she was the 16th most expensive. His stud fee when she was bred was 35k. I posted elsewhere explaining about the SSI, will find it and edit this message to add that info so I dont have to type it all over again... cuz I'm lazy! lol

DP = 11-5-13-1-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.87 AWD = 8.32
The above line is Dosage Points, Center of Distribution, and Average Winning Distance (in furlongs, so 8.32 f = 1 mile 70 yards I believe). Go here (http://www.chef-de-race.com) to learn more about Dosage Points.

And here is the SSI info:
About SSI: The SSI is a numerical representation of a runners race record in comparison with all other runners regardless of years raced, number of starts and sex. The higher the number, the better the runner. For comparison purposes a runner with an SSI of 32.19 is in the top 0.01% of all runners, and a runner with an SSI of 1.00 is in the top 21.3% of all runners. It is also important to nkow that 50% of all runners have an SSI of 0.36 or better, and 12.4% of all runners earned no money and have an SSI of 0.00.

If any of this is unclear let me know!

[Louise]

Thanks hobie cat! That will make a nice, easy to locate, informational topic.

Can anyone else think of some often asked questions that can be answered here? Might as well get them on one thread, for easy access.

Hey foundationmare - like the way I hijacked your thread? Sorry, I hope you got the information you were looking for.

[Jessi P]

How about:

Where can I learn more about Dosage.....

www.chef-de-race.com (http://www.chef-de-race.com)
http://brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=expdosage
http://brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=advdosage (advanced theory)
-----------------------
Where can I try to order a win pic/video of my horse?
Figure out what track your horse has won at, then call and ask for track photographer. Having the date and race # when you talk to the photog helps a great deal. Most tracks and their #s are listed on the page below. Note, at most tracks photos and videos are purchased from differnt people. Videos are kept by the media or video room folks not the track photographer.

http://www.jockeyclub.com/industrylinks.asp?section=S

-----------------------
and
2004 report of mares bred by stallion (alphabetical order) http://jockeyclub.com/information.asp?reportrequest=RMB
----------------------------
Where can I order one of those APR disks?
http://brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=aprinfo (info)

http://brisnet.com/aprorder.txt (pricing - specials going on now for the 2004 edition!)
---------------------------

Where can I learn more about ordering race records?
http://www.equineline.com/dotCommonNewUsersDisplay2.cfm

------------------------
from the Jockey Club site online

Online rule book (http://www.jockeyclub.com/registry.asp?section=3)
--------------------
http://www.registry.jockeyclub.com/registry.cfm?page=dotRegistryHelpDeskFAQ&#Client.URLToken

1. What is the deadline to register a Thoroughbred foal?

Thoroughbred foals may be registered at any time provided all requirements listed in the Principal Rules and Requirements of The American Stud Book are satisfied. To avoid late fees, The Jockey Club should receive all materials within 12 months of the date of foaling. Registration fees cover the cost of genetic typing, parentage verification and corrections made to the Certificate of Foal Registration within six (6) months from the date of issuance. Refer to the Fee Schedule for a full description of fees.


2. Why don't I always receive my first name choice for my Thoroughbred?

To avoid confusion on the racetrack and in the breeding industry, The Jockey Club has established Rules for naming Thoroughbreds. These rules help prevent duplication of names already in use or names of horses which enjoyed distinguished careers on the racetrack or breeding farm. All names submitted to The Jockey Club for approval are subjected to stringent review to assure names requested are not similar in spelling or pronunciation to those names already in use. Approximately 450,000 names are unavailable either because they are in current use or protected because of historical significance. However, approximately 75% of first name choices submitted are approved by The Jockey Club. The fastest way to name your Thoroughbred is through Interactive RegistrationTM, which features an Online Names Book which is updated continuously.


3. How is the parentage of my Thoroughbred verified?

In 2001, The Jockey Club switched from blood typing to DNA typing for parentage verification. Although blood typing was state-of-the-art for many years, DNA typing is 99.9% efficacious. This high rate provides the greatest assurance modern science has to offer for the integrity of The American Stud Book. The genetic testing laboratories under contract by The Jockey Club compare the genetic factors present in the sire and dam to those factors present in the foal. These comparisons indicate whether the sire and dam reported do indeed qualify as the sire and dam of the foal.


4. How do I transfer ownership on my horse?

If the horse is already registered, submit a completed Transfer of Ownership form signed by the new owner or agent listing the new ownership information, the horse's name, pedigree and date of purchase.

Forms submitted via Interactive Registration do not require a signature.

If the registration is still in progress and papers have not issued, simply supply the correct ownership information in the spaces provided on the various forms utilized by The Jockey Club. For example, the Live Foal Report and Application for Registration can be used to report the ownership of a horse for which the papers have not yet issued.

The back of the Certificate of Foal Registration provides a number of blank spaces to record transfers of ownership when Thoroughbreds are bought and sold. The Jockey Club encourages all breeders and owners to faithfully record ownership transfers on the back of the Certificate of Foal Registration before the Thoroughbred changes hands.

To assure that future correspondence concerning the Thoroughbred is mailed to the correct address, The Jockey Club encourages owners to report transfers of ownership to the registry by either logging onto Interactive Registration and selecting "Transfer Ownership" or by calling the registry office and requesting a Transfer of Ownership form.

Although the term "ownership" is used, keep in mind The Jockey Club does not purport to maintain accurate and up-to-date records of ownership on Thoroughbreds. Rather, the transfer of ownership information is necessary to assure registry correspondence concerning the Thoroughbred reaches the appropriate parties responsible for transacting business with the registry.

The Jockey Club will not release the ownership information regarding a particular horse unless requested by order of a racing or court authority.

No fee is required to transfer ownership and DO NOT return the Certificate of Foal Registration.


5. What does "Sold Without Pedigree" mean?

A Thoroughbred may be sold without the Certificate of Foal Registration. This type of sale arises when an owner wishes to sell a Thoroughbred but for either health or other reasons, does not want the horse to compete in racing or to breed. Thoroughbreds that are sold without pedigree remain listed in the American Stud Book; however, their offspring are not eligible for registration. Please refer to Rule 18 of the Principal Rules and Requirements of the American Stud Book for more information.


6. How can I replace my horse's papers that were lost?

Complete a duplicate certificate form and submit the following to The Jockey Club:

Four (4) color photographs clearly indicating all identifying markings taken from the front, rear and both sides. If no identifying markings are present, please submit a fifth (5th) photograph of a close-up of the face indicating all cowlicks present


Bill of sale from owner or other form of proof of ownership.


Notarized statement from the owner or authorized agent describing in detail how the certificate of foal registration was lost or destroyed.


Duplicate fee (see Fee Schedule).

7. How can I get a pedigree and race record for my horse?Fee Schedule (http://www.jockeyclub.com/registry.asp?section=2)

equineline.com, the online Thoroughbred information service of The Jockey Club Information Systems, Inc. (TJCIS), has available many options for pedigrees and race records for nominal fees. This site is completely secure and you may order reports using your credit card. Sample products may be reviewed by clicking the horse head that says "Sample Product, Free." You can also order a pedigree and race record by calling TJCIS at 800-333-1778 or 859-224-2800. All profits from TJCIS activities are re-invested in the Thoroughbred industry.


8. How can I find out about my horse when all I have is a tattoo number?

TJCIS offers two types of tattoo research. To find out more, call 800-333-1778 or 859-224-2800 or go to http://www.tjcis.com/ and click on the "tattoos researched (http://www.tjcis.com/otherServicesDisplay.asp?section=3)" button.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Need additional information on registering your Thoroughbred? Please contact The Jockey Club Registration Services Department at (859) 224-2700.

enough yet? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jessi

[Lord Helpus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by libgrrl:
LH,

Great job!!!

Now try "dual qualifiers"! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey... Dual Qualifiers is easy. I've already done the hard work. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Come Ky Derby time, there is a group of people who have statistics which say that there are two main criteria for a horse to meet before it has a chance to be considered a good bet to win the Kentucky Derby.

The first criteria is that the horse must have sufficient stamina in his pedigree to get the 1 1/4 miles that is the distance of the Kentucky Derby. The Dosage Index (explained above) is an easy way, some say, of determining this. An index of 4 is the "dividing line" between horses with enough distance runners in their pedigree and horses who have too much sprinting blood to last the 1 1/4 miles at this point in their lives.

There are a number of holes in this theory -- the biggest one (which you can drive a truck through, IMO) is that the categories which the horse's ancestors are assigned to (the 5 categories of sprinter v. run all day horse) are subjectively determined by one man. If things are not working out as they should be with his little formula, he has been known to add a horse into an additional category so that the points can be reassigned to work out the way he wants them to.

So, in the dual qualifying theory -- the first way to qualify is to have a Dosage Index of less than 4.

The second element necessary to become a dual qualifier is to be assigned a "weight" within 10 pounds of the highweighted 2 year old on the Experimental Free Hanidcap.

For a two year old to be assigned a weight on the Experimental Free Handicap, he must have placed in a stakes race during the year.

Traditionally, the best 2 year old is assigned 126 pounds on this scale. An exceptional 2 year old will be assigned more to recognize his superiority over all two year olds of that year and other years. Secretariat was assigned 128 or 129 which, as I recall, might have been the all time high weight assignment.

These horses will never be assigned these weights in an actual race; it is merely a method of ranking their relative ability based on their performances as 2 year olds.

Of course, many horses which go on to be top 3 year olds are just getting started at the end of their 2 year old year. But the people who ascribe to the "Dual Qualifier" theory believe that a horse cannot win the Kentucky Derby without having shown enough precociousness as a 2 year old to have performed well at the stakes level.

Each year there are approximately 8 - 12 horses who have both a DI under 4 AND who are assigned weights within 10 pounds of the highweighted 2 year old.

NB: Two year old fillies are given a 3 pound weight allowance. So a filly who is assigned 123 pounds is considered to be on a par with a colt who is assigned 126. I believe that this year Sweet Catomine was assigned 124 pounds (= to a 127 lbs weight for a colt -- she is considered to be an extraordinary filly). This means that, only colts who were assigned above 117 and fillies who were assigned above 114 AND whose DI is less than 4 are Dual Qualifiers.

Clear as mud? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[vineyridge]

GSV Genetic Strength Value

One breeding/handicapping system guru has developed this system for evaluating potential, which he sells.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>GSV: "A Must for Handicappers, Stallion Managers and Breeders"
G
S
V

GSV=Genetic Strength Value:
It predicts thoroughbred performance before the foal is born. The GSV is based on the Genetic, Racing Ability and Stud Performance (GRASP) of 57 of the 62 horses in its 5 generation pedigree. The missing 5 horses are its tail-female line. A catalog page gives buyers and sellers the tail-female line. The GSV measures the rest.
A GSV scores over 70 is worth a bet if there are no other horses in the race with a score above 68 as there is a good return on horses at high odds. It is also a great bet if solid handicapping shows that the horse is "live" in the race. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GRASP=
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"A Must for Commercial Breeders and Buyers and Those Who Breed to Race"
G =Genetic: Measures performances of males & females within five generations, pedigree construction, tail-female line strength, etc.
25%
R
A =Racing Ability: Measures individual racing brilliance, level, earnings, blacktype events, speed vs stamina, preferences, etc.
25%
S
P =Stud Performance: Measures success as a sire and broodmare sire, % of starters, %winners, %SW's, % 2yo winners, etc. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pedigree Query has a deal with the guy who does this and lists the Genetic Strength Value of the horses that it has in its database.

[Jessi P]

BUMP!!

[Xctrygirl]

Can I just say....wow.

Now I know most of this stuff, but even I am impressed with how easy to understand, clear and best of all, in one place!!!!

Too bad my 'big' horse has horrible dosage!!!


~Emily

[Jessi P]

bumping back up so I dont have to go digging....


Jessi

[Louise]

Even better, I'll pin it.

[Toadie's mom]

Thanks Louise! ...Even tho no one will answer my question, I'm printing this wealth of knowledge.

[lee.]

Toadie's mom, I'll answer your question! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

A 'wonk' is someone that is studious or exceptionally knowledgable about a particular subject. It's sometimes used in a disparaging way, sort of like calling someone a computer geek or nerd. A lot of times you'll hear the term used in political circles, when someone is referred to as a 'policy wonk.' That means they have an unusual or obsessive amount of knowledge about policy.

[Toadie's mom]

lee. Thanks! I guess at the very least we're all "horse wonks", or at least think we are!

[Sing Mia Song]

Here's another tidbit of info:

TB Tattoos consist of a letter followed by 5 numbers, i.e. S02072.

The letter corresponds to the birth year. In the example above, the birth year is 1989. The numbers are the rest of the registration. So the registration number printed on this horse's papers would be 8902072.


A 1971
B 1972
C 1973
D 1974
E 1975
F 1976
G 1977
H 1978
I 1979
J 1980
K 1981
L 1982
M 1983
N 1984
O 1985
P 1986
Q 1987
R 1988
S 1989
T 1990
U 1991
V 1992
W 1993
X 1994
Y 1995
Z 1996
A 1997
B 1998
C 1999
D 2000
E 2001
F 2002
G 2003
H 2004
I 2005
J 2006
K 2007
L 2008
M 2009
N 2010
O 2011
P 2012
Q 2013
R 2014
S 2015
T 2016
U 2017
V 2018
W 2019
X 2020
Y 2021
Z 2022

[foundationmare]

Thank you so much for the information! I haven't responded before now because I just returned from ten days in the Bahamas! I know, I know, it's a tough gig but I figure I saved some other poor bloke from having to go in my place!

The original question was spawned when I decided to finally admit that I had no clue what they meant. I had done a pedigree query on my now three year old colt, newly registered with the JC, my very first "all mine" horse that I bred. He's a fine looking young man and has sprinter stamped all over him!

Thank you again.

[Saskatoonian]

Hope it's ok to post a racing 101 question... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif
Stepahnie Valberg has found that "horses tied-up most often with gallop training not when breezing or racing." So what is the difference? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
Thanks!

[2Traks]

My 3 year old's DI=3.67. Ya mean, he could win the KD?!? It's back to the track for him! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[Sing Mia Song]

Originally posted by Saskatoonian:
Hope it's ok to post a racing 101 question... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif
Stepahnie Valberg has found that "horses tied-up most often with gallop training not when breezing or racing." So what is the difference? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
Thanks!

"Breezing" or "working" in racetrack parlance is when a horse is worked at high speed for a relatively short distance, usually two to four furlongs.

"Galloping" is when the horse goes out for a nice, long gallop, usually just a bit more than an open canter or hand gallop. It's nothing for a horse to gallop two miles.

You would think, seeing as the breezing is an all-out effort, that a horse would be more likely to tie up. But the researcher has said that more horses tie up after those long, slow gallops.

[Saskatoonian]

Thanks, SMS!

[Candle]

Racing 101 Question http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Will someone list commonly measured timed distances, and what is a good time for a horse to work over that distance? Such as... Going a mile in ... is a respectable time, but ... is a really fast time? Thanks!

[Jessi P]

Workout times can and do vary greatly from horse to horse and track to track. It also depends on what the trainer wants from the horse.. if they want an easy half in :50 or a bullet half in :47. Without seeing the horse work there is really no way of knowing by looking at the time whether it was a good or bad time for that day and that horse. One place to start would be going to Equibase workouts (http://equibase.com/premium/eqbWorkoutsFullIndex.cfm) and looking at all the works for that day at that track and see how the horse's work compares to other horses works at the same distance.

In a VERY general sense.... I will post a fast, medium and slow time for the following distances, but please note that these are very general and do no take into account track condition, weight of rider or exercise boy, trainers intended effort, urged with whip or just held together with a light hold, from gate or from pole, in company or alone.

distance fast med slow
3/8 :35 :38 :40
1/2 :47 :50 :52
5/8 1.00.0 1.02.0 1.05.0
3/4 1:12.0 1:14.0 1.17

We dont ever work horses further than that so I wont post times for any further distances.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Jessi

[Candle]

thanks jessi http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif i figured that was a good place to start. if i look up a track record, and add maybe four seconds to it, would i have an average workout? or am i totally wrong? do you just have to compare the times to other horses working at the same track at the same time?

Also, who can explain the Beyer Speed Figures? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

edited to add thanks to all who are explaing this stuff, and i loff this thread!

[Jessi P]

I dont think that adding 4 seconds to a track record would get you anything meaningful. Here, our track record is 1.08 and something for 6F. Right now they are racing 6F in 1:14 and 1:15 because of the deep track from the freeze/thaw cycle we have been having. Nobody has worked 6f in past couple days, but the 5f works have been 1.06-1.07 and change. Remember, the further the horse works the more it means if it can maintain a 12 second furlong for example. A :36 3/8 isnt nearly as impressive as a 1:12 for 6 furlongs, to me at least.

[Jessi P]

From: http://drf.com/help/help_speedrate.html

Speed Figures
Beyer Speed Figures

Beyer Speed Figures appear exclusively in Daily Racing Form. Every performance by every horse in North America is assigned a Beyer number which reflects the time of the race and the inherent speed of the track over which it was run, permitting easy comparisons of efforts at different distances. A horse who earns a 90 has run faster than one who runs an 80. In this system of numbers, 2 1/2 points are roughly equal to one length in sprints, and 2 points to one length in routes.

On the Beyer scale of numbers, the very best stakes horses in the country earn figures in the 120's. Good allowance horses or low-grade stakes horses run around 100. A typical $25,000 claiming race would be run in the low 90s, a $10,000 claiming race in the low to mid 80s. The average winning figure for bottom-level $2,500 claimers at smaller tracks is 57.

Speed Rating and Track Variant

Daily Racing Form's Speed Rating and Track Variant provide an "old style" gauge of a horse's speed in a race.

The Speed Rating is a comparison of a horse's final time with the best time at the distance at that track in the last three years. The best time is given a rating of 100. One point is deducted for each fifth of a second by which a horse fails to equal that time. Thus, in a race where the winner equals the best time (a Speed Rating of 100), another horse who is beaten 12 lengths gets a Speed Rating of 88 (100 minus 12).

As a companion to the Speed Rating, Daily Racing Form's Track Variant takes into consideration all races run on a particular day under the same conditions of distance and track surface. The Speed Ratings of all winners in each type of race are added toget her and an average is computed. This average is deducted from the par of 100 and the difference is the Track Variant. (Example: if the average Speed Rating of winners sprinting on the main track is 86, the Track Variant is 14 (par of 100 minus 86). The lower the Track Variant, the faster the track, or the better the overall quality of competition that day.

[Jessi P]

From
http://drf.com/help/help_symbols.html

Symbols and Abbreviations

In Workout Line:
B Breezing
(d) Worked around dogs
D Driving
E Easily
g Worked from gate
H Handily
tr.t Training track
TR1 Training Race (this was 1st race)
1/25 Workout ranking
In Finish Line:
hd Head
nk Neck
no Nose

In Equipment Line:
b Horse wore blinkers
f Horse wore front bandages
In Medication Line:
B Butazolidin
L Lasix

In Color, Sex Line:
B Bay
Blk Black
Ch Chestnut
Dkb or br
Dark bay or brown
Gr Gray
Ro Roan
c colt
f filly
g gelding
h horse
m mare
r ridgling
In Track Condition Line:
Dirt Tracks:
fr Frozen
fst Fast
gd Good
hy Heavy
my Muddy
sl Slow
sly Sloppy
wf Wet-Fast

Turf & Steeplechase:
fm Firm
gd Good
hd Hard
hy Heavy
sf Soft
yl Yielding
In Quarter Horse Line:
Wind Direction
cw Cross wind
hw Head wind
tw Tail wind

[Sing Mia Song]

Jess, I've seen "a" in the medication line recently. What does that mean? Obviously not acepromazine!

[Jessi P]

That "A" is for "Adjunct bleeder medication." Something like amacar, ky red or the like. They list 3 specific ones in our condition book that are allowed.. I think the third is clotol.

We always give an additional bleeder medication.

Jessi

[Saskatoonian]

"(d) Worked around dogs"
huh?
Ugly guys?
Slow horses?
Canines on the track? I thought this was a big no no. But maybe it'd explain why Saskatoon didn't mind Tessa running around in the leaves when I tried him! Oh, and generally annoying the guard (pygmy) goat!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[foundationmare]

Finally, one I can answer! Dogs are orange pilons put up on a sloppy track to keep horses off the rail. When gauging the speed of a work/breeze, it's important to know that the horse worked around the dogs because, theoretically, it's a longer distance. It would be the same as a horse "going wide" around a turn in a racing situation: the horse is covering more real estate.

[Saskatoonian]

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif
[wiping tears from eyes] Thank you.
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[ejm]

The DRF site has a page that lists the best Beyer ratings for the year, too. Here's the link:

http://www.drf.com/leaderboard/displayBeyers.html

[Simkie]

Ya-ya started a few times in a flipping halter.

Anything I should know about her? She's a bit high strung, but has never offered to rear...

[Freebird!]

Simkie - I'm sure she'll be fu\ine so as long as you don't try and load in in a starting gate, lol - A bit OT here, but do you have a picture of Desert Secret?

[Saskatoonian]

(where's my dunce cap?) a flipping halter?

[Jessi P]

http://www.aqha.com/racing/handicapping/articles/september02column.html
Once we've developed knowledge of a horse's gate behavior, we can then note key equipment changes. Trainers will often add or remove flipping halters from fractious horses. (A flipping halter is designed to prevent a horse from rearing or flipping in the starting gate. A rope is attached to the front of the starting gate and is run through the flipping halter under the horse's neck).

In many cases, horses that tend to get nervous in the gate will become calmer when a flipping halter is used. However, in certain cases fractious horses can become even more agitated with the addition of a flipping halter. In such instances, the trainer will then remove the halter.
============================
Hope that helps........... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Candle]

I've always wondered this... How do the goggles work? I see jockeys go by with four or five pairs of goggles on their helmet, so do they start with all of them on and throw off pairs as they go? This is the least likely scenario I can think of, but I can't think of anything else.

[Jessi P]

The jocks pull the top pair of goggles down as they get dirty....they keep pulling them down as needed, or til they run out. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

You can kinda see it in this (http://www.finalturngallery.com/album519/Web_Whirlaway_finish_dk0781) pic.

OOOOooooooo this one (http://www.finalturngallery.com/album448/Web_020505_Angel_post) is much better.

Hoping final turn allows hotlinks.. if they dont work let me know!

Jessi

Edited to add:Edited to give a better explanation: The jockeys put all the pairs of goggles on at once when they go in the gate, usually 5 or so. The goggles are very thin and flexible, not like scuba goggles or anything lol. Then as they get dirty the jock grabs the top pair and yanks them down below his chin, revealing the clean pair underneath. Hopefully they dont run out of goggles before the race is over! But they usually have a good idea how many they need. They use more pairs of goggles when the track is horribly muddy or if they have a horse that is known to be behind horses early on in the race... eating dirt for the first 1/4 - 1/2 mile. It takes a lot of talent/coordination.. I could never get the hang of it messing around in the morning schooling races. Balance weight on balls of toes, reins and stick in one hand (the same hand you are steering with), grabbing just the top pair out of 5 or so pair of goggles and yanking them quickly down w/o dragging the ones below halfway down your face, totally obscuring your vision and impairing your breathing to the point you start gasping for air, inhaling all that dirt that is getting thrown back on you. All of this while going 30-35 mph on a TB. Oh, and you dont pull your goggles down with the reins in one hand and the stick in the other... at least I couldnt - only time I tried it I almost poked my eye out with the stick! Back in my younger (and much braver) days.....

[Candle]

thanks so much for answering all these totally obscure questions! I really wondered that every time I saw a race. I thought they started up on top of the helmet, then the jockey pulled off the ones on his/her eyes, pulled down a pair off the helmet, and i was like http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif at the thought of doing all that while galloping! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif I feel better now

[accidental buckaroo]

I have a really dumb question, maybe has been answered here and I did not look through all replies.

How doyou know which races are two turns? Do you have to know the race, what? I was so overwhelmed by what was attempted to be imparted that at some point I think I just blanked out, there was no more room for info.

TIA
AB

[Jessi P]

First off you need to know the circumference of the racetrack in question. Secondly you need to know the distance of the race. Most tracks are a mile, which means a mile race starts at the finish line and ends there, meaning 2 turns. Some tracks are smaller, like Charlestown and Los Alamitos, meaning 6 furlong+ races are at least 2 turns. Some tracks are larger like Arlington and Belmont. If a track is a mile and the race is a mile, chances are its a 2 turn race. Some tracks are a mile but have a chute that allows a one turn mile such as Arlington. If you are looking at a program there will be a diagram of the track signifying where the start and finish are.

So... did that confuse you further or what??? lol

Jessi

[accidental buckaroo]

Originally posted by hobie cat:
First off you need to know the circumference of the racetrack in question. Secondly you need to know the distance of the race. Most tracks are a mile, which means a mile race starts at the finish line and ends there, meaning 2 turns. Some tracks are smaller, like Charlestown and Los Alamitos, meaning 6 furlong+ races are at least 2 turns. Some tracks are larger like Arlington and Belmont. If a track is a mile and the race is a mile, chances are its a 2 turn race. Some tracks are a mile but have a chute that allows a one turn mile such as Arlington. If you are looking at a program there will be a diagram of the track signifying where the start and finish are.

So... did that confuse you further or what??? lol

Jessi

Well, let me ask you this: on a normal track, not a bullring track, are you saying that any race that is a mile is two turns, excluding Belmont, as it is huge? (Are Arlington and Belmont different because they are such large tracks?) Aaackk, there is a WHOLE LOT more to racing than peeps think, imo.

Thank you for answering though, and bear with me, ok.

AB

[Linny]

Aqueduct and Saratoga are 1 1/8 miles around. Aqu has a "chute" extending from the backstretch and mile races are run from the chute, around one turn. Churchill (and I think the new Gulfstream, not sure) also run 1 turn miles. At Saratoga, they don't card mile races. Belmont runs up to 1 1/8 from the chute, as its 1 1/2 miles around.

Yep, there is ALOT of stuff in racing that you don't think about at first. Then you get to wondering "how the fruitbat do they..."

[accidental buckaroo]

Sorry to be dense..what do you mean they don't card mile races?

Between the two turns thing and the fractions, I will never get this. It resenbles algebra or a math word problem and Ijust kinda blank out with those. But I will keep reading.

Thank you very much.

AB

[foundationmare]

"They don't card mile races" means that the racing secretary doesn't write races going a straight mile. It usually has to do with the track configuration, e.g. track distance (bullring, mile, mile plus, etc.) and where chutes are placed on the track.

[Linny]

Right now they are running on the Inner Track at Aqueduct. Its a mile around, and its inside the main track, where you might expect to find a turf course. Because of the configuration, without chutes, they only run races at 6 furlongs, one mile, 1 1/16 etc up to 1 1/4 miles which begins awkwardly on the turn. To bein a sprint at 7furlongs on a turn would be very unfair to most of the field. The racing secretary, who decides what races are to be held, has to take into account the layout of the track as well as the availablilty of horses to "fill" each race.
Its not really algebra, its English. H/J folks and racing folks are "two people divided by a common language." Its the terminology thats got you! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

For example a horseshow sends a "prize list" from which you select classes/divisions to enter. A track publishes a "condition book" which describes upcoming races and their conditions of eligiblity. Its this book that trainers use to select races for their stock.

[Linny]

Hey! Where the fruitbat is my signature!?

[WhiteCamry]

Originally posted by Linny:
Aqueduct and Saratoga are 1 1/8 miles around. Aqu has a "chute" extending from the backstretch and mile races are run from the chute, around one turn. Churchill (and I think the new Gulfstream, not sure) also run 1 turn miles. At Saratoga, they don't card mile races. Belmont runs up to 1 1/8 from the chute, as its 1 1/2 miles around.

Yep, there is ALOT of stuff in racing that you don't think about at first. Then you get to wondering "how the fruitbat do they..."

Aqueduct has two dirt tracks; the outer one is 1 1/2 miles just like Belmont.

[Linny]

The Main Track at aqu is 9 furlongs with a chute for a 1 turn mile. Belmont is the only 1 1/2 mile track in the US. saratoga is also 9f but has only a 7f chute.

[Jessi P]

For track diagrams/info, go to

pages 37, 38 (http://www1.nyra.com/chart/horsemanguide.pdf) Aqueduct


page 50 (http://www1.nyra.com/chart/horsemanguide.pdf) Belmont
page 60 (http://www1.nyra.com/chart/horsemanguide.pdf) Saratoga

Will see if I can find other tracks if I have time.

Jessi

[accidental buckaroo]

Originally posted by Linny:
Right now they are running on the Inner Track at Aqueduct. Its a mile around, and its inside the main track, where you might expect to find a turf course. Because of the configuration, without chutes, they only run races at 6 furlongs, one mile, 1 1/16 etc up to 1 1/4 miles which begins awkwardly on the turn. To bein a sprint at 7furlongs on a turn would be very unfair to most of the field. The racing secretary, who decides what races are to be held, has to take into account the layout of the track as well as the availablilty of horses to "fill" each race.
Its not really algebra, its English. H/J folks and racing folks are "two people divided by a common language." Its the terminology thats got you! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

For example a horseshow sends a "prize list" from which you select classes/divisions to enter. A track publishes a "condition book" which describes upcoming races and their conditions of eligiblity. Its this book that trainers use to select races for their stock.

Prize list = condition book. Now that I can relate to!

Fog still thick but sun streaming through in very thin lines.

Thanks verymuch.

AB

[Linny]

The link that Hobie posted to the NYRA rules gives a very good idea of how racing "works." It outlines alot of how things get done in racing, I imagine that the rules in NY are fairly typical.

[accidental buckaroo]

Series of dumb questions:

Why is dosage important? HOw many peeps really buy off on that? Seems to me if one confines expectations based on pedigree, well you can see how that is faulty, no?

Do you pay attention to Beyer speed figures? I do, it is one of the numbers I can actually understand, but I know many don't. What gives with that?

Fractions are equated with various distances along the track, pole xyz, no? Which of those are important and why? Please address as though you are talking to third grader, I just dn't get it.

A bulleted work is fastest at given distance, track, what?

I havemy own wacky theory of post position based on rudimentary physics, please let me hear others.

I have read 3 Andrew Beyer books trying to figure this out, but he is more for the gambler which is another lesson antoher day.

Thanks very much in advance, truly and I so appreciate your patience also.

AB

[Jessi P]

Why is dosage important? HOw many peeps really buy off on that? Seems to me if one confines expectations based on pedigree, well you can see how that is faulty, no?

Dosage tries to give you an idea based on the horses in the pedigree what the horse should have aptitude for, short, long, mile, and so on. It does not have the capacity to take into account physical aspects of the horse.. such as the horse with a bad knee or ankle that prefers to go one turn (as two turns gets to stinging too much) or the horse with a narrow airway/ paralyzed flap that cant go as far as his pedigree suggests. And we all know there are no guarantees when it comes to breeding animals. Just probabilities.


Do you pay attention to Beyer speed figures? I do, it is one of the numbers I can actually understand, but I know many don't. What gives with that?

Personally I dont give a whole lot of credence to Beyer speed figs, because they go back and adjust them if needed. They are determined by people, not computer calculations. Case in point was a few years ago.. some horse was running in the Derby, hadnt run in the big usual preps, took more circumspect route, and his speed figs at the other, smaller tracks were way lower than his fellow Derby entrants even tho he was considered of a comparable class. They went back and refigured his speed figs to be more comparable. This came directly from a handicapper who worked at the time for the daily racing form. So, my point is, they arent engraved in stone. I am thinking 97 or 98 was that Derby?


Fractions are equated with various distances along the track, pole xyz, no? Which of those are important and why? Please address as though you are talking to third grader, I just dn't get it.

A mile is divided into 8 furlongs. You have poles that mark those furlongs. The one right before the wire (dealing only in furlong poles for the moment) is the 1/8 pole. Then you count backwards around the track.... the idea is that from that pole is the distance to the finish line. So then you have the 1/4 pole, the 3/8 pole, the 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, and 7/8. Roughly, the 1/4 pole is at the head of the lane, the 3/8 is on the end of the backstretch going into the turn, the half and 5/8 are on the backside (5/8 is across from finish line on a mile track), the 3/4 pole is the beginning of the backstretch, and the 7/8 is a furlong after (to the right of) the finish line.

A bulleted work is fastest at given distance, track, what?
The fastest work at that track, that distance, that day. Each day the fastest 3/8, 1/2, 5f, etc times for each track are "bulleted." They are then ranked in order for the # of horses worked. For example, if you look here (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbWorkoutsDisplay.cfm?TRK=MNR&CY=USA&DATE=02/22/2005&STYLE=EQB) at the 5F works you will see two of our horses who worked in company, Bowler and Seattle Theme. They had the 2nd and 4th fastest works of nine horses to work 5f that day. Seattle Theme ended up about 6 lengths in front of Bowler (usual estimation is 1/5 sec = 1 length). They are both 3 yos, Bowler by Boston Harbor($25k stud fee at the time), Seattle Theme (a filly) by a son of Seattle Slew standing in TX named Seattle Pattern($1K?). My point here being that ST is a VERY nice filly who won her first start and has been very competitive allowance company, I feel she is stakes quality. Bowler is a maiden who has run twice (poorly). It was good for both of them, gave him something to concentrate on and work towards, and gave her something to tighten her up for next race against some VERY nice fillies.

If you want to get into the 1/16 poles.....(we wont mention the 70 yard pole, heck some tracks even have a 40 yard pole!) here is a list of poles, in order of running a one mile race BACKWARDS. In otherwords, from the finish line CLOCKWISE around the track (the wrong way). Because the fraction always represents the distance from that pole to the finish line (which is always the same place in front of the grandstand, almost the end/right of the stretch).

Here goes (please NOTE this is a ONE mile track which represents the majority of tracks, but there ARE tracks larger and smaller than one mile!):
finsh line
1/16
1/8
3/16
1/4
5/16
3/8
7/16
1/2
9/16 (or 4 1/2)
5/8
11/16 (or 5 1/2)
6 f
13/15 (or 6 1/2, not a real common one)
7/8
15/16 (not real common either)


Ok are you bored now?
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Jessi

[Linny]

Beyer Speed Figures (BSF's) are one of many different numbeers assigned to each performance by a Tb. They are the most widely disseminated as they are published in the Daily Racing Form. They are not set in stone. Beyer and his squad of minions DO adjust them, as Hobie Cat mentioned. They don't always account for variables like wind patterns. They do sup[posedly account for wide trips BUT don't be fooled. Sometimes the rail is "dead" and the outside trip is better! As a handicapper I do look at them but only in looking for general patterns.
For example, let's say horse's last 5 BSF's are 76/79/60/78/80 and today's race is a 6 furlong $16k claimer. The races represented by those #'s were all at this class and they were mostly good (wins, or within 2 lengths of the winner) performances, except that 60. I now have to figure out why he raced so badly that day. Was it muddy, did he get a poor start, was the pace too fast? Lets say that all the other races in the sequence were at 1 1/8 miles and that bad showing was at 6 furlongs. Today's race is 6f. Maybe he doesn't run his best at 6f. Now I have to see if he's ever run well at 6f.

To me they are a guide, a starting point for other research.

Handicappers and horsemen break races up into furlongs or 1/8's. Hobie explained the position of the poles. The are measured BACKWARD from the finish. Remember that at most tracks the FINISH line doesn't change, the starting place does. Six furlong races start at the 6 furlong pole. They pass the 5/8, the 1/2, the 3/8, the 1/4 and then the 1/8 pole as they race. When horse train most trainers clock the individual fractions by furlong to see "how" they got the distance. The poles tell the trainer (on the ground, or maybe a pony) when to click the watch. They are also used to get your bearings on the track. A trainer might tell a rider to "let him gallop to the 5/16 pole, ask him for a bit more, then set him down at the 1/4 pole." Here the trainer is asking the rider to let the horse build up to the workout speed before the point where the timed workout begins. It gives the horse a "running start."

Does this make it worse? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Sometimes knowing a little bit is more confusing than nothing. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

[accidental buckaroo]

Wow Hobie and Linny, thanks! Clears up much, does create more questions but need time to digest what you've said.

Counting backwards from the finish line was a big help.

I have heard that my OTB offers a seminar of some sort on this, but I have yet to get the details.

Thanks again so much!

AB

[accidental buckaroo]

Originally posted by Linny:
. A trainer might tell a rider to "let him gallop to the 5/16 pole, ask him for a bit more, then set him down at the 1/4 pole." Here the trainer is asking the rider to let the horse build up to the workout speed before the point where the timed workout begins. It gives the horse a "running start."

Does this make it worse? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Sometimes knowing a little bit is more confusing than nothing. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

What lengths of workouts do you note? I guess what I am trying to ask is what is the significance of these various workout lengths?

Hope I am asking that right....come back if you understand what I am trying to say.

Thanks again so much.

AB

[Linny]

Generally works a measured in furlongs. Occassionally 2yo's will have some 2f works but generally you see 3,4,5,6 and even 7f works. Certain trainers have patterns that they use. The great Allen Jerkens (Hall of Famer, defeated Secretariat 2x during his 3yo season, with different horses) will use long (6 or 7f) works. Trainers who apprenticed with Jerkens often show the same tendency.
Hobie Cat or Xctrygirl work with the horses directly and could give more details on the "why" they use certain distances. As a handicapper I mainly look for frequent, steady works. The clocking of works is a very inexact science and I don't count on them to be exact to the 1/5 second. It is nice to see a horse who have been laid off show some speed (fast works) in the morning. To me it says he's sharp and still interested in running.

[Jessi P]

We will work a a horse who has not run in 30 days about 1-5 days before the race. Distance and timing depends on the horse - a young strong horse who is a handful will often work 1/4 the day before the race, we tell the jock "blow them out down the lane." An older horse who is not as sound and more laid back will work 1/2 4-5 days before the race. This gives the horse time to recover and start feeling 'on the muscle' again. If we know the horse is doing to go out and throw a bullet work we will work 3/8 and gallop out a half (to the 7/8 pole) as this is less stressful than working a bullet half. We have had a couple horses that blow out or gallop the morning of a race (we race nights here)... mostly mental cases that are otherwise too difficult to control, esp in the gate. We had one gray horse that would track the mornings of his races, blowing out down the lane, and then coming off the track the rider would jump off and he would be walked back from the track with a person on each side of his head, with him kicking 6' in the air. Psycho. But otherwise he was unmanageable in the gate. He kicked me in the face once, bit my other half in the face leaving a scar on his cheek... but I digress.

Young horses who havent raced will start on a weekly work schedule once they have galloped at least 90 days and been open galloping (2 minute miles). It will be something like
1/8
1/4
1/4 if needed
3/8
3/8
1/2
3/8 if needed
5/8
1/2
6 f (maybe)
3/8
Race

Of course a couple of these races will be from the gate so the horse can be "okayed from the starting gate" in order to race. Some tracks have the morning starting gate in the 6f chute, others have it in the 1/4 chute. As a trainer you have to keep in mind that you want the young horse to learn to work past the finish line and take that into consideration when planning your gate works. For example, with the gate at the 6f chute here in the morning you have to either work a horse 6f to go past the wire or work 3/8 to finish at the turn, I dont care to work them so that they are pulling up right before the wire. Older horses know where the finish line is.

Part of training is knowing how hard to train your horse to keep them at their best, fitness, soundness, and happiness. That includes the distance you (as trainer) choose to work them, how fast you want them to work, and the timing of the works. They dont go as fast in the mornings as they do in a race. Did I forget anything? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Jessi

[accidental buckaroo]

Hobie, it kicked you in the face and bit you there too? Good lord. You are brave.

Both you and Linny have been so helpful and patient and I appreciate it very much.

Knowing nothing is alot easier than trying to find out particulars; sometimes it all runs together.

'nuther question:

I have read and heard of 'rabbits.' Is once a rabbit always a rabbit, and how does that affect the horse. AB

[Linny]

"Rabbits" are seen less often today at the higher levels. They are used alot in Europe where they are called "pacemakers." The general idea is that a stable sacrifices one horse to provide a fast pace for a (presumably superior) stablemate. Many front runners are one dimensional, meaning that going to the lead and trying to last is all they do. The pacemaker or rabbit is entered to drag such horses into a suicidal pace, setting the race up for a closer to "pick up the pieces" when the speed fades.

Eddie Neloy used a rabbit to get Buckpasser home in front of Dr Fager back in the 60's. I think the horse was Poker, the damsire of Seattle Slew and Silver Charm.
Many times in stakes, rabbits are horses of lesser quality than the level of the race. All they need is speed to do their job. After serving as a rabbit they many times return to the proper leval and compete very well.

[Jessi P]

I claimed a horse for one of our posters, Lord HelpUs, whose family had bred and sold him as a young horse. His name is Commanche Trail, and he was sent out to be the rabbit in the 94 (?) Travers for stablemate Tabasco Cat. Unfortunately it didnt work as planned, CT was in front early but eased, the winner was the gray Holy Bull. Tabasco Cat was third I think, and I cannot for the life of me remember who was second... we claimed him in 98 or 99 when he was an old man, he is now retired in Southern Pines. He has a page on my old website at http://members.aol.com/jesspzro/ct.html and YES that is me on him for his first cross rail with a rider....

Here is a blurb from the article:

In the 1994 Travers Stakes, Commanche Trail led the field through fast early fractions of :22.83 and :46.35 for a half-mile while being used to set the race up for a victory by stablemate Tabasco Cat. The tactic did not work as Commanche Trail was pulled up after a mile and Holy Bull went on to win at 4-5 odds, with Tabasco Cat third. Commanche Trail, a son of Copelan bought by trainer D. Wayne Lukas for $115,000 as the co-sale topper at Fasig-Tipton Kentucky's 1992 select yearling sale, went on to win two stakes, including a grade III event, before dropping into relative obscurity

[accidental buckaroo]

When you say he was eased does that mean he was eased by jockey or he eased essentially himself?

Could he have won the Travers!!!!!!!!???????

Copelan (I also corrected spelling) is Rockport Harbor's grandFATHER on dam side no? In haste I got mixed up.

I can read, but what does that really mean?

I have several friends who are very successful arabian breeders, but I am dunce with this stuff, I was severely affected in the 7th grade biology class studying genetics--all of my fruitflies got loose. That's my story anyway.

[Linny]

I remember those pics of CT. He's a handsome dude. I was in the paddock for the Travers that year (I was a big fan of Holy Bull) and remember thinking that the h/j folks would love Commanche for his cute markings.

The last racing pic in the sequence is from Saratoga.

Copelan was a brilliant 2yo who went on to be a good sire in Florida. He's generally known as an influence for sprinter/milers. He's been a very good broodmare sire.
As for Commanche in the Travers, he wasn't entered to WIN, but to force Holy Bull to go so fast early that he wouldn't have enough gas left to hold off the late charge from Tabasco Cat. Regretably, for his connections he failed as a rabbit, fading well before Bull was tired out. Happily for him, Pam eventually tracked him down and had Hobie Cat grab him! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Accidental Buckaroo, are fruitflies anything like "fruitbats?"

[accidental buckaroo]

Originally posted by Linny:

Accidental Buckaroo, are fruitflies anything like "fruitbats?"

Linny, I have no idea.

[Linny]

I would call that a "Where's the fruitfly?" moment.


Where's the Fruitbat=WTF (which equals what the f%^*)

[accidental buckaroo]

Originally posted by Linny:
I would call that a "Where's the fruitfly?" moment.


Where's the Fruitbat=WTF (which equals what the f%^*)

Ahhh, yes it was definitely a WTF moment, in fact if I recall, a WTF 9 weeks. You see, the fruitflies were subdued by ether (which was used at that time, I know I am dating myself in saying this)-- I on the other hand, was terribly allergic to ether and kind of zoned out. The fruitflies were distributed in an enormous tube to the students, once the ether was in my system I saw 4 of everything, and well you can imagine from there.

[vineyridge]

What does it mean when y'all say "a horse used up all his conditions" when giving a reason for being listed on CANTER, for example?

Is there a scale of races through which a horse has to move up or down to keep racing?

[Jessi P]

The most common conditions are lifetime conditions:

Maidens (never won a race)
Never won 2 races lifetime (NW2L)
Never won 3 races lifetime (NW3L)
Never won 4 races lifetime (NW4L)

Of course its easier for a horse to run against horses with similar achievements - a maiden is obviously at a disadvantage in a race against horses that have won 4 or 5 races in their life.

There are also conditions called "beaten conditions" - non winners of a race in 6 months (NW/6 mo), non winners of 2 races in 6 months (NW2/6 mo) and so on. These are just the basics, there are more conditions to be found in the condition book. But a horse who has won 3 races in the past 6 months is considered a "tougher" horse than a horse who is eligible NW/6 months, even if they race for the same claiming price.

When a horse has run thru its conditions it has to run 'wide open'... against the toughest horses for that claiming price. Oftentimes a horse is competitive against condition horses but cant compete against the wide open horses - hence the sales tag.

Horses have so many starts to remain eligible to have a stall at the track and to race there. Here a horse must be 1-2-3 or 4th at least once every 8 starts once they start for a $5k tag (or less elsewhere), unless a maiden - maidens get 10 starts to be at least 4th once they run for the $5k tag.

This make it more confusing?

Jessi

[Linny]

In the allowance world horses run out of conditions too. They then have to go to either stakes or claiming races or move too an easier circuit.
They run:
Maiden
non winner of 2 lifetime (nw2L)
non winners of 1 other than maiden, claiming or restricted (nw1x)
nw2x
nw3x
nw4x (very rare most horses eligible for this condition in NY are running in stakes)
After that, it's stakes or claiming. They do card some funky high level allowance races or overnight stakes. They might use conditions like " 3 year olds and up, non winners of an open sweepstakes in 2003-2005" or "Non winners of a race worth $30k since June 1st 04." Many times these races are carded to fit a particulular horse, maybe a returning stakes horse or a good dirt horse trying turf for the first time.

Hey Hobie, I was watching Mountaineer on the simo last night. PT me and tell me about your barn. I'll watch for you. I get Mountaineer in my home!

[Sing Mia Song]

In addition to "Out of Conditions" is "Out of Starts." The rules vary slightly from track to track, but at Charles Town, a horse must finish "on the board" (first, second or third) in one of ten consective starts in order to remain eligible to race. I think at Penn National they have the finish in the top five in one of five consecutive starts.

We've gotten several nice horses this way, and, while they could still have some physical problems, it at least says to me that the horse didn't come off the track because of an injury.

[RoyalTRider]

thanks so much for answering all these totally obscure questions! I really wondered that every time I saw a race. I thought they started up on top of the helmet, then the jockey pulled off the ones on his/her eyes, pulled down a pair off the helmet, and i was like at the thought of doing all that while galloping! I feel better now

Much clearer... thanks for asking! LoL!! I thought the same thing!

[Hunter_Rider]

Question on betting: If you placed a $2 bet on Giacomo and Closing argument to show at the derby what would it have paid off for each one, I understand the pay off for winning- but what if you placed a bet to just "show"

[Drumbiggle]

Originally posted by Hunter_Rider:
Question on betting: If you placed a $2 bet on Giacomo and Closing argument to show at the derby what would it have paid off for each one, I understand the pay off for winning- but what if you placed a bet to just "show"


They paid $19.80 and $24.80 respectively.

Go to the DRF.com for results... i.e for this particular race...... http://www.drf.com/results/07/rCD07.html?rn=405507

Scroll down to race 10.

[LongLeaf]

In looking over a race record, what do the following abbreviations mean:

F3UCLM
F4UCLM
F3UMSW
F03MSW

I think that CLM is a claiming race ... right? F3U = Fillies 3 and under? But that wouldn't make sense as this mare raced in a race like that as a 5 year old. Any help would be appreciated!

[Linny]

3U stands for 3 and up.
CLM=Claiming
If you see CLM and a number, that's usually the claiming price.
MSW=Maiden Special Weight (a maiden race for horses not made available to claim) They are generally better quality races than MCL's which is a maiden claiming race.

[LongLeaf]

Thanks Linny! Looks like my girl was a "claimer" for 4 years!

[Pat Ness]

There is a lot of information here and thanks! I have two questions:
1) does a horse have to run with a bit?
2) what is the purpose of tying their tongues?

Thanks!
Pat Ness

[Linny]

I dont recall ever seeing a horse race in a bitless bridle but I'm not sure if there is a rule about it.
Tongue ties keep the horse from getting the tongue over the bit and/or swallowing his tongue.

[Pat Ness]

Thanks for the information Linny, I somehow forgot about horses putting their tongues over the bit, even though I have had this problem with mine on occasion...

[WhiteCamry]

Originally posted by Linny:
I dont recall ever seeing a horse race in a bitless bridle but I'm not sure if there is a rule about it.
Tongue ties keep the horse from getting the tongue over the bit and/or swallowing his tongue.

As with Reverberate?

[Man O' War]

It seems to me that the Europeans don't use tongue wraps, but instead pull the bit away up higher in the mouth.

Am I correct in this or imagining it?

[Drumbiggle]

Originally posted by Man O' War:
It seems to me that the Europeans don't use tongue wraps, but instead pull the bit away up higher in the mouth.

Am I correct in this or imagining it?

They tie tongues down in Europe too when needed.

[Gry2Yng]

Horses have so many starts to remain eligible to have a stall at the track and to race there. Here a horse must be 1-2-3 or 4th at least once every 8 starts once they start for a $5k tag (or less elsewhere), unless a maiden - maidens get 10 starts to be at least 4th once they run for the $5k tag.

So after they lose their stall at lets say Arlington Park, can they go to Fairmont Park for ten more races? Can they ever go back to Arlington? Or is it just no worth the expense at this point and that is why they are put up for sale for $2K-$5K?

[Luvinfoofy]

I apologize if this has been answered already, but...

Could someone explain what a paddock, starter, steward and vets list is? What are the differences? The similarities?

Thanks! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Linny]

Paddock-the term used for the saddling enclosure or area. "The horses are led to the paddock about 18 minutes before post time."
Starter-the racing official in charge of the start of the race. The "Starter" has assistants who load the horses intot he gate and often get into the gate with them. The term "starter" is also used to describe a horse in a race as in "the third race went with 7 starters"
Steward- the stewards are the officials in charge of the integrity of the game. The stewards are the people to whom claims of foul are made. They can call for an inquiry into a portion of the race. Most tracks have 3 stewards, with at least one hired by the state to represent the interest of the betting public, though they all should be interested in the public!
Vets list- a list of horses maintained by the track vet, of horses who need special "dispensation" to enter a race. In NY for example, if a horse is eased or fails to finish a race, he goes on the list. Horses who are scratched in the post parade also go on the vet's list. When Noble Causeway was a "gate scratch" at Saratoga this summer he went onto the vet's list. The NYRA vet had to watch him work out (breeze) and "pass" him before he could enter a race.

[Luvinfoofy]

Whoops, I'm sorry..
I meant paddock list, starters list, and stewards list.

Thanks a ton, Linny!

[Linny]

Starters list contains horse who need "gateschooling" before being able to race again.
Stewards list horses have to be cleared for any of a number of issues, often related to clerical problems.

[Luvinfoofy]

Perfect, thank you!

[Kontiki]

I know the question about poles on the track has already been answered but I was wondering if anyone may know of a link to a picture of the a track layout for a one mile track that has all of the poles labled and their colors so that I could get a visual of it?
Thanks

[Linny]

NYRA's Media Guide online has "birdseye" sketches of all three NYRA tracks HERE (http://www.nyra.com/images/nyra2005mediaguide.pdf)

[BeastieSlave]

Okay, here's a dumb question from a non-racing TB lover. What is "black type"? I will not subject you to my speculations.... Just curious.

[Linny]

"Black type" refers to the bold face type used in sales catalogues to denote stakes winners or stakes placed runners. I'm off to find a page online to demonstrate.

[Linny]

http://www.fasigtipton.com/catalogs/2005/1003/EFPEDOUT.PDF

In the above you are looking at a typical sales page. Hip 1 is by Chief Seattle out of an unraced mare. HER dam (the colt's second dam) is Jungle Gold. Jungle Gold has black type, in capital letters indicating that she was a stakes winner. A brief description of her record follows her name.
Further down, under the colt's third dam, you'll see the name Seattle Sunrise. He has blck type in lower case letters, meaning he was stakes placed (2nd or 3rd) but never won a stakes race. BTW, the designation "Sire" after his name means that he has sired at least one horse to win a race.
This horse's 3rd dam (Gold Sun) was a pretty important mare. She produced the dam of Cigar but her daughter Jungle Gold didn't produce much and this baby's dam didn't even race.

[BeastieSlave]

Thank you Linny. This is most enlightening! I had assumed that 'black type' did relate to stakes winnings, so I don't feel as dumb as I might have http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Amchara]

Hey Racers, I read all the first stuff about DI and CD, but I was wondering if I could have this translated still, as it would make me feel better! Also, to prevent any further requests for translations, anyone feel like telling me what GOOD and BAD numbers are?

DP = 6-0-4-0-0 (10) DI = 4.00 CD = 1.20

THANKYOU!

[vineyridge]

It's not really a question about good numbers or bad numbers.

It's more what distance a particular horse's breeding indications that s/he would have an aptitude for. The higher the number, the more sprinter bred the horse is.

In your example, the horse had 6 brilliant chefs, whose offspring performed best at distances of a mile or less (I think that's the cutoff, but dosage is based on European racing where longer races than here are more common). It had 4 classic chefs, which would be horses who won races at classic distances. In this country, that would be between 1 1/16 miles up to 1 1/2 miles.

The calculations are very complicated and mathematical, and the assignments, I think, have to do with a particular chef's winning offspring's actual races and distances. So a computer will take the six brilliant and 4 classic chefs and come up with a number that is slightly weighted toward brilliant. How to figure is on the chef de race site.

It is possible to have a negative DI, but that's extremely rare in America.

Personally I like to look at the CD, which is center of distribution.
With 0 to start from, you can go positive toward brilliant ( sprinter speed) or negative towards professional (stamina).

[Simkie]

Hey Vineyridge (and eveyone attending VR's brief rundown on dosage classhttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)! Here's Blush for educational purposes:

Blushing Maiden (http://www.pedigreequery.com/blushing+maiden)

Her CD is exactly 0.0, and her DI is 1.0. She had 27 starts, won 3. Her minimum winning distance was 1 mile, and her max was 1 1/16th mile.

[vineyridge]

Need to correct a couple of dosage things

Dead center would be 0.00 in the CD. It would also represent a pedigree that has worked out to be classic distance without trending in either direction.

The most stamina laden horses are called Professional, then up to Stout or Solid, Classic, Intermediate, Brilliant.

There is a site,
Chefs by group (http://www.chef-de-race.com/dosage/chefs-de-race/chefs_by_group.htm)
that lists all the horses that have achieved chef status in the last 100 or so years, by what stamina category they are recognized for.
Some are listed in more than one category, and I think that is due to how their offspring excelled.

[vineyridge]

What it means is that the horse has 28 Dosage points in its first four generations from chefs who are in the various categories. 10 points are from chefs whose offspring excel at classic distances; 8 points from chefs whose offspring excel at sprint distances, 4 points from chefs whose offspring excel at intermediate distances like a mile; 4 points from the solid chefs, and 2 points from the professional, stamina laden producers.

The index, worked out by the formula on the Roman site, comes out to 1.55 or closer to the classic distances of just over a mile than to the sprint speed of less than a mile.

The CD means that on a scale from +2 (brilliant) to -2 (professional) the horse is just over 1/4 of the way to a pure sprinter, based on sire line speed versus stamina. That is a stamina laden profile for an American horse in the 21st century.

The point of dosage is to help determine in what distance a breeding is likely to produce competitive race speed.

[Sing Mia Song]

Track and training center abbreviation codes for North America:

AC AGUA CALIENTE TIJUANA, MEXICO
AD ARIZONA DOWNS PHOENIX, ARIZONA
AIK AIKEN (HUNT) AIKEN, SOUTH CAROLINA
AKS RESULTS AK-SAR-BEN OMAHA, NEBRASKA
ALB RESULTS ALBUQUERQUE ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO
ALI ALLIANCE
ANF ANTHONY DOWNS ANTHONY, KANSAS
AP RESULTS ARLINGTON INTERNATIONAL ARLINGTON HEIGHTS,ILLINOIS
(was Arlington Park before 1989)
AQU CHARTS AQUEDUCT JAMAICA, NEW YORK
ARA AURORA ILLINOIS
ARP ARAPAHOE PARK AURORA, COLORADO
ASC ASCOT PARK NORTH RANDALL, OHIO
ASD ASSINIBOIA DOWNS WINNIPEG, MANITOBA, CANADA
ATH ATLANTA (HUNT MEET IN GEORGIA)
ATL RESULTS ATLANTIC CITY ATLANTIC CITY, NEW JERSEY
ATO ATOKAD PARK SOUTH SIOUX CITY, NEBRASKA
AUD AUDUBON PARK HENDERSON, KENTUCKY
AVN AVON (STP) AVON, NEW YORK
BB BLUE BONNETS MONTREAL, QUEBEC, CANADA
BCF BROWN COUNTRY FAIR ABERDEEN, SOUTH DAKOTA
BD BERKSHIRE DOWNS HANCOCK, MASSACHUSETTS
BEL CHARTS BELMONT PARK ELMONT, NEW YORK
BEU RESULTS BEULAH PARK GROVE CITY, OHIO
BF BROCKTON FAIR BROCKTON, MASSACHUSETTS
BGD BLUE GRASS DOWNS PADUCAH, KENTUCKY
BIL BILLINGS BILLINGS, MONTANA
BIR RESULTS BIRMINGHAM TURF CLUB BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA
BKF BLACK FOOT BLACKFOOT, IDAHO
BLR BEL AIR
BM CHARTS BAY MEADOWS SAN MATEO, CALIFORNIA
BMF CHARTS BAY MEADOWS FAIR SAN MATEO, CALIFORNIA
BML CHARTS BALMORAL PARK CRETE, ILLINOIS
BND BANDERA DOWNS BANDERA, TEXAS
BOI LES BOIS PARK BOISE, IDAHO
BOW BOWIE BOWIE, MARYLAND
BRD BLUE RIBBON DOWNS SALLISAW, OKLAHOMA
BRN HARNEY COUNTY FAIR BURNS, OREGON
BRO BROCKHILL FARM RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA
CAM CAMDEN (HUNT) CAMDEN, SOUTH CAROLINA
CAS CASSIA COUNTY FAIR IDAHO
CBY RESULTS CANTERBURY PARK SHAKOPEE, MINNESOTA
CD CHARTS CHURCHILL DOWNS LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY
CDA COEUR D'ALENE COEUR D'ALENE, IDAHO
CEG CALGARY CALGARY, ALBERTA,CANADA
CEN CENTENNIAL RACE TRACK LITTLETON, COLORADO
CHA CHARLESTON (HUNT) CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA
CHL CHARLOTTE CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA
CI CONEY ISLAND CINCINNATI, OHIO
CKA COHAKIA DOWNS EAST ST. LOUIS, ILLINOIS
CLG TROUT SPRINGS TRNG CTR ALBERTA, CANADA
CLM CLEMMONS (HUNT) CLEMMONS, NORTH CAROLINA
CLS COLUMBUS COLUMBUS, NEBRASKA
CNL COLONIAL DOWNS RICHMOND, VIRGINIA
COM COMMODORE DOWNS FAIRVIEW, PENNSYLVANIA
CP CONNAUGHT PARK AYLMOR, QUEBEC, CANADA
CPW CHIPPEWA DOWNS NORTH DAKOTA
CRC CHARTS CALDER RACE COURSE MIAMI, FLORIDA
CRN CRANWOOD PARK CLEVELAND, OHIO
CT RESULTS CHARLES TOWN CHARLES TOWN, WEST VIRGINIA
CWF CENTRAL WYOMING FAIR CASER, WYOMING
CWL CUMBERLAND CUMBERLAND, MARYLAND
DAD DADE PARK KENTUCKY
DAR DARBY DOWNS GROVE CITY, OHIO
DAY DAYTON DAYTON, WASHINGTON
DED DELTA DOWNS VINTON, LOUISIANA
DEL RESULTS DELAWARE PARK WILMINGTON, DELAWARE
DEP DESERT PARK OSOYOOS, BRITISH COLUMBIA
DET RESULTS DETROIT RACE COURSE LIVONIA, MICHIGAN
DG COCHISE COUNTY FAIR @ DOUGLAS DOUGLAS, ARIZONA
DMF DEL MAR FAIR DEL MAR, CALIFORNIA
DMR CHARTS DEL MAR DEL MAR, CALIFORNIA
DOV DOVER DOWNS DOVER, DELAWARE
DUE DUELING GROUNDS KENTUCKY
(is now Kentucky Downs, use DUE from 1/1/90 to 12/31/95; see KD)
DUF DUFFERIN PARK ONTARIO, CANADA
DUN GREENELEE COUNTY FAIR @ DUNCAN DUNCAN, ARIZONA
DUQ DU QUOIN DU QUOIN, ILLINOIS
DVP DORVAL PARK QUEBEC, CANADA
DXD DIXIE DOWNS ST. GEORGE, UTAH
ED ENERGY DOWNS GILLETTE, WYOMING
EDM EDMONTON EDMONTON, ALBERTA, CANADA
ELK ELKO COUNTY FAIR NEVADA
ELM ELMA
ELP CHARTS ELLIS PARK OWENSBORO, KENTUCKY
EMD EMERALD DOWNS AUBURN, WASHINGTON
EMP EMPIRE CITY NEW YORK
EMT GEM COUNTY EMMETT, IDAHO
EP EXHIBITION PARK VANCOUVER, B.C., CANADA
(Name changed to Hastings Park -HST- beginning in 1994)
ERD ERIE DOWNS FAIRVIEW, PENNSYLVANIA
EUR EUREKA EUREKA, KANSAS
EVD EVANGELINE DOWNS LAFAYETTE, LOUISIANA
FAI FAIR HILL (HUNT) FAIR HILL, MARYLAND
FAR NORTH DAKOTA FAIR FARGO, NORTH DAKOTA
FAX FAIRFAX (HUNT) FAIRFAX, VIRGINIA
FD FLORIDA DOWNS TAMPA, FLORIDA
FE RESULTS FORT ERIE FORT ERIE, ONTARIO, CANADA
FER FERNDALE FERNDALE, CALIFORNIA
FG RESULTS FAIR GROUNDS NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA
FGS FAIRGROUNDS SPEEDWAY LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY
FH FAR HILLS (HUNT) FAR HILLS, NEW JERSEY
FL RESULTS FINGER LAKES FARMINGTON, NEW YORK
FLG FLAGSTAFF FLAGSTAFF, ARIZONA
FM FORT MIAMI MAUMEE, OHIO
FMT FAIR MEADOWS TULSA, OKLAHOMA
FNO FRESNO FRESNO, CALIFORNIA
FON FONNER PARK GRAND ISLAND, NEBRASKA
FOX FOXBORO FOXBORO, MASSACHUSETTS
FP FAIRMOUNT PARK COLLINSVILLE, ILLINOIS
FPL FAIR PLAY PARK HASTINGS, NEBRASKA
FPX CHARTS FAIRPLEX PARK POMONA, CALIFORNIA
FTP FORT PIERRE FORT PIERRE, SOUTH DAKOTA
FX FOXFIELD (HUNT) FOXFIELD, VIRGINIA
GBF GREAT BARRINGTON FAIR GREAT BARRINGTON, MASSACHUSETTS
GCF GILA COUNTY FAIR GLOBE, ARIZONA
GD GALWAY DOWNS TRNG CTR CALIFORNIA
GF GREAT FALLS GREAT FALLS, MONTANA
GG CHARTS GOLDEN GATE FIELDS ALBANY, CALIFORNIA
GIL GILLESPIE CO. FAIRGROUND FREDERICKSBURG, TEXAS
GLD GREAT LAKES DOWNS MUSKEEGON, MICHIGAN
GLN GLYNDON (HUNT) MD HUNT CLUB COURSE GLYNDON,MD
GM GREEN MOUNTAIN POWNAL, VERMONT
GMP GRESHAM PARK PORTLAND, OREGON
GN GRAND NATIONAL (HUNT) BUTLER, MARYLAND
GP CHARTS GULFSTREAM PARK HALLANDALE, FLORIDA
GPR GRAND PRAIRIE ALBERTA, CANADA
GRA GREEN ACRES VALDOSTA, GEORGIA
GRD RESULTS GREENWOOD REXDALE, ONTARIO, CANADA
GRM GREAT MEADOWS (HUNT) VIRGINIA
GRP GRANTS PASS GRANTS PASS, OREGON
GS CHARTS GARDEN STATE PARK CHERRY HILL, NEW JERSEY
GTW GATEWAY DOWNS HOLLY, COLORADO
GV GENESEE VALLEY (HUNT) GENESEE, NEW YORK
HAG HAGERSTOWN HAGERSTOWN, MARYLAND
HAM HAMILTON (ONT) HAMILTON, ONTARIO, CANADA
HAP HARBOR PARK ELMA, WASHINGTON
HAW CHARTS HAWTHORNE CHICAGO, ILLINOIS
HCF HUMBOLDT COUNTY FAIR WINNEMUCCA, NEVADA
HDG HAVRE DE GRACE HAVRE DE GRACE, MARYLAND
HIA CHARTS HIALEAH PARK HIALEAH, FLORIDA
HLN HELENA DOWNS MONTANA
HLP KENTUCKY HELPHUNTERS KENTUCKY
HO HAMILTON HAMILTON, OHIO
HOB NAVAJO COUNTY FAIR ARIZONA
HOL CHARTS HOLLYWOOD PARK INGLEWOOD, CALIFORNIA
HOO HOOSIER PARK ANDERSON, INDIANA
HOU CHARTS SAM HOUSTON HOUSTON, TEXAS
HP RESULTS HAZEL PARK HAZEL PARK, MICHIGAN
HPO HORSEMEN'S PARK OMAHA, NEBRASKA
HST HASTINGS PARK VANCOUVER, BR. COL., CANADA
(from 1920 through 1993, was named Exhibition Park -EP-)
HUF HUNTER FARM TRNG CTR FLORIDA
HWK HAWKS RIDGE TRNG CTR FLORIDA
IMP IMPERIAL CALIFORNIA
IND INDIANA DOWNS SHELBYVILLE, INDIANA
ING INGLESIDE PHOENIX, ARIZONA
ITC INFIELDS TRNG CTR FLORIDA
JAM JAMAICA JAMAICA, NEW YORK
JEF JEFFERSON PARK LOUISIANA
JND JEFFERSON DOWNS KENNER, LOUISIANA
JRM JEROME COUNTY FAIR IDAHO
KAM KAMLOOPS KAMLOOPS, BR. COL., CANADA
KD KENTUCKY DOWNS KENTUCKY
KEE CHARTS KEENELAND LEXINGTON, KENTUCKY
KEP KENILWORTH PARK ONTARIO, CANADA
KEY KEYSTONE RACE TRACK BENSALEM, PENNSYLVANIA
KHC KY HORSE CTR TRNG CTR KENTUCKY
KIN KIN PARK VERNON, BR. COL., CANADA
KLF KALMATH COUNTY FAIR OREGON
KYR KENTUCKY RACEWAY KENTUCKY
KSP KALISPELL MONTANA
KTC KENNINGTON TRNG CTR KENTUCKY
LA RESULTS LOS ALAMITOS LOS ALAMITOS, CALIFORNIA
LAD RESULTS LOUISANA DOWNS BOSSIER CITY, LOUISIANA
LAM LA MESA PARK RATON, NEW MEXICO
LAR NUEVO LAREDO NUEVO LAREDO, MEXICO
LAT LATONIA FLORENCE, KENTUCKY
(is now Turfway Park, use LAT from 1/1/76 to 4/3/86; see TP)
LAV LAS VEGAS PARK LAS VEGAS, NEVADA
LB LONG BRANCH LONG BRANCH, ONTARIO, CANADA
LBG LETHBRIDGE LETHBRIDGE, ALBERTA, CANADA
LBT LAUREL BROWN RACE TRACK UTAH
LD LINCOLN DOWNS PAWTUCKET, RHODE ISLAND
LEB LEBANON LEBANON, OHIO
LEV LITTLE EVERGLADES DADE CITY, FLORIDA
LEX LEXINGTON (HUNT) HIGH HOPE STPLCHS,LEXINGTON,KY
LF LINCOLN FIELDS CRETE, ILLINOIS
LGA LONGACRES SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
(closed - racing in the area now at Emerald Downs -EMD-)
LIB LIBERTY BELL PARK PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA
LIG LIGONIER (HUNT) LIGONIER, PENNSYLVANIA
LNN LINCOLN STATE FAIR LINCOLN, NEBRASKA
LP LAS PALMAS CALIFORNIA
LP LANSDOWN PARK RICHMOND, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA
LRL CHARTS LAUREL RACE COURSE BALTIMORE, MARYLAND
LS LONESTAR PARK TEXAS
LXG KY ASSOC COURSE KENTUCKY
MAD MADISON MADISON, NEBRASKA
MAF MARIAS FAIR MONTANA
MAL MALVERN (HUNT) MALVERN, PENNSYLVANIA
MAN MANOR DOWNS TEXAS
MAR MARLBORO BOWIE, MARYLAND
MAS MASON-DIXON (HUNT) MASON-DIXON, OHIO
MAU MAUMEE DOWNS MAUMEE, OHIO
MBK MEADOWBROOK OLD WESTBURY, NEW YORK
MBO MIDDLEBORO FAIR LAXEVILLE, MASSACHUSETTS
MC COW CAPITAL TURF CLUB MONTANA
MCH MITCHELL MITCHELL, NEBRASKA
MD MARQUIS DOWNS REGINA, SASKATCHEWAN, CANADA
MDA MELVILLE DISTRICT AGRIPAR MELVILLE, SASKATCHEWAN
MDY MEADOWLANDS ALTERNATE NEW JERSEY
MED CHARTS MEADOWLANDS EAST RUTHERFORD, NEW JERSEY
MEM MEMORIAL PARK BRUSH, COLORADO
MF MARSHFIELD FAIR MARSHFIELD, MASSACHUSETTS
MGO MARENGO PLANTATION NEW KENT, VIRGINIA
MI MIDWAY DOWNS OKLAHOMA
MID MIDDLEBURG (HUNT) MIDDLEBURG, VIRGINIA
MIL MILLARVILLE ALBERTA, CANADA
MIM MIAMI MIAMI, FLORIDA
MJC MARYLAND JOCKEY CLUB MARYLAND
MLO MILO RACE TRACK ALBERTA, CANADA
MNR RESULTS MOUNTAINEER PARK CHESTER, WEST VIRGINIA
(use MNR for Mountaineer Park since 1/1/90; see MTN & WAT)
MOF MOHAVE COUNTY FAIR ARIZONA
MOL MOLINE
MON MONKTON (HUNT) MONKTON, MARYLAND
MOR MORVEN PARK (HUNT) LEESBURG, VIRGINIA
MP MILES PARK LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY
MPL MAPLE HEIGHTS OHIO
MPM MT. PLEASANT MOUNT PLEASANT, MICHIGAN
MTC MIDDLETOWN TRNG CTR VIRGINIA
MTH CHARTS MONMOUTH PARK OCEANPORT, NEW JERSEY
MTN MOUNTAINEER PARK CHESTER, WEST VIRGINIA
(use MTN for Mountaineer from 7/2/87 through 12/31/89; see MNR & WAT)
MTP MONTPELIER (HUNT) MONTPELIER, VIRGINIA
MTY MONMOUTH ALTERNATE NEW JERSEY
MUS MUSKEGON MUSKEGON, MICHIGAN
MWB MEADOWBROOK TRNG CTR FLORIDA
NAR NARRAGANSETT PARK PAWTUCKET, RHODE ISLAND
NHF NEW HAVEN FARM TRNG CTR FLORIDA
NMP NORTHAMPTON NORTHAMPTON, MASSACHUSETTS
NP NORTHLANDS PARK EDMONTON, ALBERTA, CANADA
NWF NEW FARM TRNG CTR NEW JERSEY
NYR NEW YORK RACING OFFICE NEW YORK
OAK OAK TREE CALIFORNIA
OKR OAK RIDGE LYNCHBURG, VIRGINIA
OMA OMAHA OMAHA, NE
ONE ONEIDA COUNTY FAIR IDAHO
OP CHARTS OAKLAWN PARK HOT SPRINGS, ARKANSAS
OPX OAKLAWN PARK SIMULCAST ARKANSAS
OTC OCALA TRAINING CENTER OCALA, FLORIDA
OW OLD WOODBINE REXDALE, ONTARIO, CANADA
OXM OXMOOR (HUNT) LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY
PAF PARADISE FARM TRNG CTR TEXAS
PAY PAYSON PARK TRNG CTR FLORIDA
PBD PALM BEACH DOWNS FLORIDA
PEN RESULTS PENN NATIONAL GRANTVILLE, PENNSYLVANIA
PHA RESULTS PHILADELPHIA PARK BENSALEM, PENNSYLVANIA
PHO PHOENIX FAIRGROUNDS PHOENIX, ARIZONA
PIC PICOV DOWNS MANITOBA, CANADA
PIM CHARTS PIMLICO BALTIMORE, MARYLAND
PIT PITT PARK PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLANIA
PJ PARK JEFFERSON JEFFERSON, SOUTH DAKOTA
PLA PLAYFAIR SPOKANE, WASHINGTON
PLN CHARTS PLEASANTON PLEASANTON, CALIFORNIA
PLP POLO PARK WINNIPEG, MANITOBA, CANADA
PM PORTLAND MEADOWS PORTLAND, OREGON
PMB PALM BEACH (HUNT) PALM BEACH, FLORIDA
PMF PORTLAND MEADOWS FAIR PORTLAND, OREGON
PMT PINE MOUNTAIN (HUNT) GALLOWAY GARDENS, GEORGIA
POC POCONO DOWNS WILKES BARRE, PENNSYLVANIA
POD POCTELLO DOWNS IDAHO
POM RESULTS (SEE FPX) POMONA, CALIFORNIA
PPM PIKES PEAK MEADOWS FOUNTAIN, COLORADO
PPK POMPANO PARK FLORIDA
PRN PRINEVILLE TURF CLUB OREGON
PRO PROSPECT (HUNT) PROSPECT, KENTUCKY
PRM PRAIRIE MEADOWS ALTOONA, IOWA
PRV CROOKED RIVER ROUNDUP OREGON
PSP SPORTSMANS PARK (PHOE) PHOENIX, ARIZONA
PTC POST TIME TRNG CTR FLORIDA
PW PERCY WARNER (HUNT) NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE
PYF PLUMLEY FARM TRNG CTR FLORIDA
QBY QUEENSBURY DOWNS REGINA, SASKATCH., CANADA
RAC RACELAND KENTUCKY
RAN RANDALL PARK NORTH RANDALL, OHIO
RAP RAPID CITY RAPID CITY, SOUTH DAKOTA
RAT RACEWAY PARK TOLEDO, OHIO
RAV RAVALLI COUNTY FAIR MONTANA
RB RED BANK (HUNT) RED BANK, NEW JERSEY
RD RESULTS RIVER DOWNS CINCINNATI, OHIO
RDA WESTERNER EXH. ASSOC. ALBERTA, CANADA
RDM RED MILE LEXINGTON, KENTUCKY
RDP RED DEER PARK ALBERTA, CANADA
REG REGINA REGINA, SASKATCHEWAN, CANADA
RET RETAMA PARK SELMA, TEXAS
RIL RILLITO TUCSON, ARIZONA
RKM RESULTS ROCKINGHAM PARK SALEM, NEW HAMPSHIRE
RKV ROCKY VALLEY TRNG CTR FLORIDA
ROF RED OAK FARM FLORIDA
ROP ROUND UP PARK COLORADO
RP RESULTS REMINGTON PARK OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA
RPD ROSSBURN PARKLAND DOWNS ROSSBURN, MANITOBA
RP1 REMINGTON PARK RCNG OFC OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA
RUI RUIDOSO DOWNS RUIDOSO, NEW MEXICO
RUP MINIDOKA COUNTY FAIR IDAHO
RWD ROLLIE WHITE DOWNS TEXAS
SA CHARTS SANTA ANITA PARK ARCADIA, CALIFORNIA
SAC SACRAMENTO SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA
SAF GRAHAM COUNTY FAIR ARIZONA
SAG SAGEBRUSH DOWNS OREGON
SAL SALEM SALEM, OREGON
SAN SANDOWN PARK VICTORIA, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA
SAR CHARTS SARATOGA SARATOGA SPRINGS, NEW YORK
SAS SASKATOON SASKATOON, SASKATCH., CANAD
SCD SCARBOROUGH DOWNS SCARBOROUGH, MAINE
SED SEDALIA SEDALIA, MISSOURI
SDY SANDY DOWNS IDAHO FALLS, IDAHO
SEM SEMINOLE DOWNS CASSELBERRY, FLORIDA
SFE SANTA FE DOWNS SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO
SGC STARTING GATE TRNG CTR FLORIDA
SH STRAWBERRY HILL (HUNT) RICHMOND, VIRGINIA
SHD SHENNANDOAH DOWNS CHARLESTOWN, WEST VIRIGINA
SHW SHAWAN DOWNS BUTLER, MARYLAND
SJ APACHE COUNTY FAIR ARIZONA
SJD SAN JUAN DOWNS NEW MEXICO
SJM ST. JAMES FARM (STP) WARRENSVILLE, ILLINOIS
SLR SAN LUIS REY DOWNS T/CTR CALIFORNIA
SLV SILVER PARK SILVER CITY, NEW MEXICO
SND SUNFLOWER DOWNS PRINCETON, BR. COL., CANADA
SOL RESULTS SOLANO VALLEJO, CALIFORNIA
SON SANTA CRUZ COUNTY FAIR ARIZONA
SND SUNFLOWER DOWNS PRINCETON, BRITISH COLUMBIA
SOP SOUTHERN PINES (HUNT) SOUTHERN PINES, NORTH CAROLINA
SP SUNSHINE PARK TAMPA, FLORIDA
SPC STARTING POINT TRNG CTR FLORIDA
SPG ILLINOIS STATE FAIR ILLINOIS
SPS SUPERIOR STABLE TRNG CTR FLORIDA
SPT CHARTS SPORTSMAN'S PARK CICERO, ILLINOIS
SR CHARTS SANTA ROSA SANTA ROSA, CALIFORNIA
SRP SUN RAY PARK FARMINGTON, NEW MEXICO
(was San Juan Downs before 1999)
SST SUNRISE STABLE S TRNG CTR FLORIDA
STK RESULTS STOCKTON STOCKTON, CALIFORNIA
STL ST LOUIS (HUNT) ST LOUIS, MISSOURI
STN STONEYBROOK AT FIVE POINTS RAEFORD, NORTH CAROLINA
STP STAMPEDE PARK EDMONTON, ALBERTA, CANADA
SUD SUN DOWNS TRI CITIES, WASHINGTON
SUF RESULTS SUFFOLK DOWNS EAST BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS
SUN SUNLAND PARK SUNLAND PARK, NEW MEXICO
SWF SWEETWATER FAIR ROCK SPRINGS, WYOMING
TAM RESULTS TAMPA BAY DOWNS TAMPA, FLORIDA
TAN TANFORAN ALBANY, CALIFORNIA
TC TRAINING CENTER
TCT TOWN & COUNTRY TRNG CTR FLORIDA
TDN RESULTS THISTLEDOWN NORTH RANDALL, OHIO
TDS TRACK DATA TEST MARYLAND
TET SANDY DOWNS IDAHO
THF THORNCLIFFE PARK TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA
TIA TIJUANA TIJUANA, MEXICO
TIL TILLAMOOK COUNTY FAIR OREGON
TIM CHARTS TIMONIUM TIMONIUM, MARYLAND
TOP TOPSFIELD FAIR TOPSFIELD, MASSACHUSETTS
TP CHARTS TURFWAY PARK FLORENCE, KENTUCKY
(was Latonia until 4/3/86; see LAT)
TRM TRINITY MEADOWS WILLOW PARK, TEXAS
TRP TROPICAL PARK MIAMI, FLORIDA
TRO TROCHU ALBERTA, CANADA
TRS TRI-STATE PARK JEFFERSON, SOUTH DAKOTA
TRU TRUFORM TEST CALIFORNIA
TRY TRYON (HUNT) TRYON, NORTH CAROLINA
TS TROUT SPRINGS ALBERTA, CANADA
TSF TRACKSIDE FARM FLORIDA
TUC TUCSON TUCSON, ARIZONA
TUP TURF PARADISE PHOENIX, ARIZONA
UD URANIUM DOWNS GRAND JUNCTION, COLORADO
UN E OREGON LIVESTOCK SHOW OREGON
UNI UNIONVILLE (HUNT) UNIONVILLE, PENNSYLVANIA
VAL VALHALLA FARMS TRNG CTR TEXAS
VIC VICTORVILLE VICTORVILLE, CALIFORNIA
WAR WARRENTON (HUNT) WARRENTON, VIRGINIA
WAS WASHINGTON PARK ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, ILLINOIS
WAT WATERFORD PARK CHESTER, WEST VIRGINIA
(is now Mountaineer Park, use WAT for 1976 - 6/29/87; see MTN & MNR)
WBR WEBER DOWNS UTAH
WCD WELLS CO FAIR NORTH DAKOTA
WDS RESULTS WOODLANDS KANSAS CITY, KANSAS
WEY WEYMOUTH FAIR WEYMOUTH, MASSACHUSETTS
WH WINDY HILLS TRNG CTR CALIFORNIA
WHE WHEELING DOWNS WHEELING, WEST VIRGINIA
WIL WILLOWDALE STEEPLECHASE KENNETT SQUARE, PENNSYLVANIA
WIN WINDSOR RACEWAY WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
WMF WESTERN MT FAIR MONTANA
WO RESULTS WOODBINE REXDALE, ONTARIO, CANADA
WOR WOODSTOCK RANCH TRNG CTR FLORIDA
WPR WHITE PLAINS RACING NEVADA
WRD WILL ROGERS DOWNS CLAREMORE, OKLAHOMA
WTS WAITSBURG RACE TRACK WASHINGTON
WW WALLA WALLA WASHINGTON
WYO WYOMING DOWNS EVANSTON, WYOMING
WXF WEXFORD FARM TRNG CTR FLORIDA
XTC XALAPA TRNG CTR KENTUCKY
YAV YAVAPAI DOWNS PRESCOTT, ARIZONA
YD YELLOWSTONE DOWNS BILLINGS, MONTANA
YKT YORKTON EXH. ASSOC. SASKATCHEWAN, CANADA
YM YAKIMA MEADOWS YAKIMA, WASHINGTON
YMA YUMA COUNTY FAIR ARIZONA
ZIA ZIA PARK HOBBS, NEW MEXICO

[Sing Mia Song]

Researching your horse's tattoo when you don't know the registered name:

There is no website or free service that allows you to search a TB tattoo. However, you can do tattoo research through The Jockey Club. Charges are $35 for a tattoo search, 5-generation pedigree and tabulated race record. $55 gets you lifetime starts, owner information and sales history as well.

http://www.tjcis.com/otherServicesDisplay.asp?section=3 (JC Tattoo Research Site)

Once you have the name, you can also purchase more information through Equine Line. (http://www.equineline.com/dotCommonMainHome.cfm?CFID=229422&CFTOKEN=43680118)

[moonriverfarm]

I have a Daily Racing Form on past performance for my OTTB, and have no idea how to read it. any help out there? It's in PDF and I can't copy and attach it here.....

[Linny]

http://www.drf.com/flash/drf_pp_tutorial.html

This is the DRF's tutorial on reading the PP's.
Each line of the PP's reads across. Each represents a race.
From left to right the columns are:
Date
Race#/Track
distance
fractional times of race
cinditions of race
Beyer Speed Fig
post position
running position (w/beaten lengths)
Jockey
equipment
weight
track variant
company line (top 3 finishers)
comment
# of runners/starters in race

If you send me the pdf, I can translate...send a PT for my email

[IronwoodFarm]

I have a 101 question for everyone. When do TBs get their lip tattoos? I've always assumed that if there was a tattoo, the horse had been on the track but my sister assures me this is not the case. So can you educate me and end this sisterly squabble?

[Linny]

They MUST be tattooed to race but many get the tattoo yet never race. Most get the tattoo fairly soon (days/weeks) before their first start.

[IronwoodFarm]

Thanks Linny. Your answer is perfect -- now both sisters can claim "victory". In truth, my sister will never be quite sure if this TB ever raced. I'm just glad she's getting back into horses again. She lost her show hunter about 2 1/2 years ago and has been horseless. I'm even happy to be arguing with her about horse stuff again! :yes:

[Linny]

Hey Erin, can this thread be sticky again?

[Louise]

Erin says she'll sticky it again, Linny. We'll just have to be patient until she gets a minute.

[Linny]

I know Erin's swamped, I'll wait. This thread is a good resource.

[tinah]

Hey everybody, I had a couple of very basic questions! When did handicapping start? Are there races that are run with all horses at the same weight?
Also, how do claiming races work?
Thanks!

[Linny]

My guess is that ancients were handicapping chariot races!
Many races have horses at equal weights. Most maiden races are at equal weights. Usually weights are varying due to recency of winning efforts. For example, an allowance race or a claiming race might set the starting weight at 121lbs. From there, they might say horses without a win within X (amount of time) are allowed 3lns, so they are now down to 118. Similarly, horses in claiming races can be given a weight break if the owner is willing to enter for a lower proce. Say the claiming price range is 8-10k. At 10k the weight is 121. At 9k it might be 119 and at 8k it's 116.

Claiming races make up most of the races run in the US. When you enter a claiming race, you are offering the horse for sale at that price, via the "claim box". The conditions of the race set the price, ie "Three and up $20-25k" Meaning horses 3 or older valued between 20-25k. The claiming game is more art than science. Trainers must gauge the best place the enter, where thay can win but hopefully not be claimed, unless they WANT to lose the horse.
If your horse is "in for" a $20k price, any horseman with funds on deposit at the horsemens bookkeepers office may purchase him for that price. The paperwork must be completed BEFORE the race and be 100% accurate. Most tracks require the "claim form" be in the box at about 10 minutes before the race's scheduled post time.
Sometimes more than one claim is placed for a horse in which case a "shake" or drawing is held. As long as the horse is considered a "starter" in the race, the claim is valid. If the horse breaks down in the race, the new owner is responsible for him. Any money he may earn however, goes to the owner at the time of entry, the original owner.

Claiming is IMO a very interesting part of the game. There is much strategizing and no small bit of game playing. A trainer may want to drop a horse down in class for a confidence boost but doesn't want someone to claim him for less than his real value. He may train the horse with odd equipment or a very heavy exercise rider or wrap is legs outside the barn while acting like it's doomsday so claiming trainers who may be spying on him as he trains and cools out maight think something is wrong. He may chose to drop WAY down to scare off claims, after all no one would "give away" a legit $20k horse for say, $8k. It's a crapshoot in alot of ways but most folks in racing operate in the claiming realm.

[JerseyGirlEQ]

I have a tattooed TB and I have tried researching him using his name (the one I was given) but I don't beleive its his registered name. Is there any place online that I could check his tattoo to his name thats not going to cost me $35? I know the JC does the research but I'm not really interested in all that as much as I would just like to know his name. From his name I can find the rest myself I'd hate to pay them to do something that I can do myself...if that makes sense. I might just be cheap :lol: but it seems kind of silly to pay that fee when all I want is a name.

[Linny]

What name were you given? I have a CD-rom with names of all TB's registered between 1920 and 2001 but if the name is wrong it doesn't work. Maybe I can play with the name, change a letter or two and see what I get.
Also, how old is he? What's the letter at the start of his tattoo? If he was Breeders' Cup eligible, there might be info about him there.

[Parysa]

What does it mean for a horse to be "eased"?

[Drvmb1ggl3]

.

[Parysa]

Ok, glad to know I'm not an idiot! That's what I figured it meant, but wanted to make sure. :) Thank you!

[Sing Mia Song]

Per request, here is the direct link to the tattoo research page at the Jockey Club Information Systems website: https://www.tjcis.com/order_reports.asp

You can call them, too. (800) 333-1778. They are open Monday-Friday 8 am - 5 pm eastern time.

They will try as many numbers as you can come up with until you get a match.

[vineyridge]

New question that I'm pretty sure hasn't been addressed.

Do horses have to pay entry fees to race? What would the range likely be from a 2,500 claiming race up to a million dollar purse? How much would a colt pay to be nominated to the Kentucky Derby (say) and at what age? I know the owners can supplement nominations for a hefty fee, but is that necessary in non GI races?

Do tracks ever pay horses appearance fees to come and race?

[Linny]

Most races cost nothing to enter. Stakes races generally have nomination fees, entry fees and starting fees. These moneys ("stakes") are added to the purse.
Here's a link to NYRA's fall stakes book.
http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm?sn=SB-BEL-20060809-0

The MacArthur requires a $100 nomination fee. It costs $500 to enter and $500 to start. If you enter but scratch you get to keep the last $500. By the time you run it costs $1100. If you missed the cutoff for nominating, you may pay a supplemental nomination fee of $1000 THEN the other costs.

The Derby is a who "other bundle o' laundry. Nominations for all 3 Triple Crown races are due early in the 3yo year. One fee covers the nomination to all three. I think it's about $500 and usually severalhundred arenominted. There are supplementals taken, I think some time in late March for about $5k. Then it closes. Entry and starter fees are much higher than for most races.

Many times a track will release a list of nominees to a certain race. If you read such a list be aware that it's not an entry list, just a list of who's eleigible. Trainers often nominate all over the place to keep options open. Last weekend there were 3 or 4 middle distance grass stakes in the mid Atlantic region. Many horses were nominated to several of them. Trainers wait and see "who goes where" before deciding to eneterand/or start.

[Jessi P]

In addition to Linny's post answering your Q I wanted to talk about the cheaper races.

The only "entrance fees" in a cheaper race are not an entry fee per se, but the fee for paying the jockey, or "jock mount." For bottom races here it is about $50. This is paid to the jockey by the track from $ in the owner's horseman's account. The track recoups the jock mounts from the owners. For this reason, many tracks went to a system where each horse (or the first 8 out of 10 here at Mountaineer) earns enough $ in the race to cover the jock mount. This way the track isn't letting owners of losing horses pile up a big "bill" with unpaid jock mounts. Is that clear or is it confusing?

Used to be only the first 4-5 horses got paid in a race. But now they divide the $ up a bit differently and pay further thru the first 8 of 10 here as I said, to try to avoid an owner owing the track money.

I know I could explain this better, maybe someone else can help me find the words..

Oh, a winning jockey gets 10% of the winners share of the purse - minimum ~$600 here. Of course they have bills to pay out of that $$, a % to their valet (who keeps their tack clean and organized and ready between races), 25% to their agent, and the jocks Guild.

[sarapony]

Ok what is SPR and CPI? I just pulled the equineline on my mare, Retrieve the Gold, and she has an SPR of 66 and a CPI of .9

Never mind, thanks to google, I found my answer :)

And for those that care her dosage is 11,5,13,1,0 (30) Her DI is 3 and her CD is .87

[vineyridge]

Please, would someone explain the JC's SPR so I can understand how it might affect breeding decisions. I know it's some sort of percentage ranking, and it has to do with a horse's racing performance, but I don't understand how it's used--and have forgotten what the S stands for. I read about on the Equineline site, but have no clue about it's utility.

[Barnfairy]

The links you'll need plus helpful tips all in one spot

Accurate Pedigree Look-ups are FREE through both equineline (http://www.equineline.com/prodsamp.cfm) and brisnet (http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/gen_static.cgi?page=gen_preinquiry)

Tattoo Research:

The Jockey Club Now Providing Free Tattoo Identification Services
Look them up here:

https://www.registry.jockeyclub.com/...TOKEN=97775324 (https://www.registry.jockeyclub.com/registry.cfm?page=tattooLanding&CFID=472250&CFTOKEN=97775324)

You need your JC Interactive (Equineline) account, or to create a free one.

http://www.jockeyclub.com/mediaCenter.asp?story=367

For legible tattoos, an owner can use a free tattoo lookup feature available from The Jockey Club’s website, www.jockeyclub.com (http://www.jockeyclub.com/), and the Registry homepage, www.registry.jockeyclub.com (http://www.registry.jockeyclub.com/).

For illegible tattoos or partial tattoos, customer service representatives from the Registry will provide free research of a Thoroughbred’s identity using the information contained in The Jockey Club’s database, including color, markings, and photographs.

Information on procuring identification from illegible or partial tattoos as well as tips for reading lip tattoos and a list of frequently asked questions is available at www.registry.jockeyclub.com (http://www.registry.jockeyclub.com).

Alternatively:Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau.
http://www.trpb.com/

I can't recommend these guys highly enough for tattoo searches. They are fast, professional, good to deal with, and are the people who put the tattooes on the horses and did a physical description at that time. If you have a partial tattoo, you can photograph possible identifying marking on your horse and they will try and match them. They will also correct errors in less than a week.There is no charge for tattoo research through the TRPB, however, there is a $10 charge for racing history.






How to get replacement Papers for my TB

This will also not be an instant gratification topic!! The things you need right off are:

1.) Knowing who had the paper's last and them being willing to write a letter stating how they were lost
2.) Bill of sale of the horse to you
3.) 4 color photos showing all markings from the front rear and both sides. If no markings, then a fifth pic is needed for a close up of cowlicks on the face. ( a cowlick is the little hair swirls. Usually beneath the forelock
4.) The duplicate fee of $150


Here's the website: https://www.registry.jockeyclub.com/...TOKEN=96710297 (https://www.registry.jockeyclub.com/registry.cfm?page=dotRegistryHelpDeskFAQ&CFID=8844552&CFTOKEN=96710297)

Pedigrees

1.) www.Pedigreequery.com (http://www.pedigreequery.com/) (Be aware this is a user input site. That means anyone can put a pedigree in and it may not always be correct. But the staff there has tried to fix errors more quickly in an effort to fight off this stigma. Also you need to get the name just exactly as its entered or it won't find it. If you know the dam's name I usually start there with tricky named horses)

2.) Breeder's Cup, Nomination Verification https://nominations.breederscup.com/...orm.cfm?init=1 (https://nominations.breederscup.com/bcFoalVerificationForm.cfm?init=1)
This is mecca in terms of accurate national and international pedigree searches. The data is accurate and it can show similar names.


Birthdays

1.) The way I do this is kindof sneaky, I go to my DRF watch page (Register for free and you can get email notifications on workouts, entries and results) and when you eter a horse into your watch list, it shows you their actual bday.

Entries, results, Workouts for horses or trainers (Workouts not available by trainers)

Choose any of the Virtual Stable or Watchmail sites available

www.drf.com (http://www.drf.com/)
www.equibase.com (http://www.equibase.com/)
www.brisnet.com (http://www.brisnet.com/)

International Race Records

1.) The coolest site on the web and sadly not a US based site.
www.racingpost.co.uk (http://www.racingpost.co.uk/) Free Registration site

You can search for a horse thats run in England here and it will pop up a page of its past perfrmances, who trained it, who it's related to, how the family has done, What trends it liked and much more.

Here is an example of a horse I owned who was an Irish Tb:
http://www.racingpost.co.uk/horses/r...orse_id=448569 (http://www.racingpost.co.uk/horses/racing_horse_form.sd?horse_id=448569)

2.) The Japanese Bloodstock Page
http://www.japan-bloodstock.co.jp/home/en/default.asp

I am still learning my way around this but it's a lot of cool stuff.

For instance here's what you get when you fo a Family Table search for Barbaro:
http://www.japan-bloodstock.co.jp/ho...baro_2003c.asp (http://www.japan-bloodstock.co.jp/home/en/horse/tre/b/a/barbaro_2003c.asp)

Race Records

Ok so many sites will charge you a fee for the complete race reecord. And for $5 its worth it. But for $12 maybe not so much. The first thing I do when looking for a horse's past perfomances is to GOOGLE it!!!! Free and easy. So let's say I wanted to find Lad's race record. (And this is what I did when I bought him)

I google "Unbridled Lad" (The quotes keep the terms together and narrow the searches to where the words are united)

Ok so I get some results..but we hit a snag. There is a very well known "Unbridled Lad" who is an Australian TB and who actually won a race! But I do find 3-4 races worth of his history. So i have some idea of what he's done.

**Tip** If you have a horse with a "normal" name, "Private Account.... Fantastic Storm.....Genuine Risk" you'll like have to add the dam or sire's name to the search. These terms are just used a lot in the real world.

more Google tips: try adding "thoroughbred", "racing", "entries', or "results" to the search to yield better results

As far as the pay sites for Race records, by far the most popular is www.Equineline.com (http://www.equineline.com/)

But lately I have been using www.drf.com (http://www.drf.com/) because their reports include the Beyer speed figures. Something that I like that you can't get on Equineline. Also the cost at Drf is $5 and the cost at Equineline is $8 for the same thing but with the Equibase speed figures. I just prefer the Drf. If I want the more complex racerecords I would buy it from Equineline. But for a quick basic to see if a horse has been vanned off etc... Thanks I'll spend $5.

Videos of Races

1.) Free site: www.calracing.com (http://www.calracing.com/)
They don't have access to every track nor every race, but its a great place to start.

2.) Pay site: www.racereplays.com (http://www.racereplays.com/)

They have now partnered with Equineline.com and you can buy single video replays from them.

I think its just easier to pay nothing and if I really like a horse, go to a track with the replay monitors and watch a race there (if its in the time frame)

OK thats about all I can think of now.

I swear I have thought about starting a business to research people's Tb's for them :)

~Emily


Just wanted to ad...
I've gotten info (and a few pics) of some of my OTTBs from these message boards....

http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/ (Information seekers forum)

http://www.thoroughbredchampions.com/forum/ (Whatever happened to forum)

http://nhrexracers.proboards70.com/ (ExRacers - a great BB for OTTBers!)

Also - I'm a member of racereplay.com - I can look and see if your horse is listed before you pay a fee to look - I can also look for photos from this site - THEY MUST BE prior to 2001 and I need the date, track name and race number to look - Pictures are often available for 1st - 3rd place finishes. You can pm me if you like - PLEASE make sure you have all the info above (DATE, TRACK NAME and RACE NUMBER) along with your horses name... :)

Another good pedigree site is www.tbhorsepedigree.com (http://www.tbhorsepedigree.com/) Not as many horses (yet) as Pedquery, but is fairly accurate and more horses being added all the time.

Bill Lathrop's Conduit Mare theories:
http://www.dimarpublishing.citymaker...ge/1367142.htm (http://www.dimarpublishing.citymaker.com/page/page/1367142.htm)

Reines de Course:
http://www.reines-de-course.com/

Female families, TB history, sires, portraits, pictures, all things TB
http://www.tbheritage.com (http://www.tbheritage.com/)
http://www.bloodlines.net (http://www.bloodlines.net/)

US Steeplechasing
http://www.steeplestakes.com (http://www.steeplestakes.com/) (not well kept up to date)

Chefs de Race (dosage)
http://www.chef-de-race.com (http://www.chef-de-race.com/)

Alphabetical list of blue hen mares:
http://www.equineinfo.com/horseracing/broodmares.htm

Very interesting article on the X factor Large Heart gene
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-A...eng/wcopy.html (http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Athene/5059/eng/wcopy.html)


How to find progeny of racing age out of a specific mare:
There are two ways you could do this:

1) Brisnet.com will provide a produce report - but you have to register for an account and then pay for the report

2) If you go to the pedigreequery.com forums, under information requests, you could ask for someone to look up your mare in their APR (American Produce Report, I think). There are members who have a up-to-date copy, so it should show everything except the last foaling year. They do this as a kindness, so it might take a few days, and be sure to provide your horse's exact registered name, gender and year of birth, sire and dam if you want to be doubly certain.

If your mare has been through a sale recently, a search online can turn up old catalog pages that might list the info.


Interpreting a catalog style pedigree (http://www.gaylevanleer.com/ownership/catalog.htm)

[Barnfairy]

excerpted from http://www.gaylevanleer.com/ownership/catalog.htm

About Stakes Races
Of all the races run in North America each year, only about 3% are graded stakes races which offer the highest purses. Winning those stakes races is the dream of every owner because that is, frankly, where the money and notoriety are found. In order to distinguish the quality of the different stakes from each other so that you can compare "apples to apples," a system was devised to grade the races across the country and around the world by the quality of horses that compete in them each year. The grades of each race are reviewed annually and can be raised or lowered from year to year depending on the quality of horses that have recently competed. The "G" stands for "Graded" in North America and "Group" elsewhere. This system of grading races was only begun in 1974, so older horses that appear in the 3rd dam or further in a pedigree may have won some very important races of their day, but no grading symbols appear. Another recent addition was adding the track code and purse paid to the horse after the name of the stake

[G1] The top races run each year throughout the world

[G2] The next tier of graded/group races

[G3] The lowest tier of graded/group races

Fourth place finishes in graded races in Part I countries 1985 through 1988 are recognized as black-type placed. Beginning in 1989, only 4th placed finishers in Grade 1 races in Part I countries are recognized as black-type placed. Beginning in 1990, 4th placed finishers are not recognized as black-type placed in any race

[L] A "Listed" race has a purse of at least $50,000, may be reviewed for possible [G3] status in the future or has been downgraded from [G3]

[R] Races that have restrictions other than age or sex. For example: horses that have not earned first prize money of a certain amount since a certain date; or horses that passed through a particular sale.

[LR] Listed Races with Restrictions ($50,000 added & up)

[S] Races restricted to horses bred in a particular state

[O] Other Races ($15,000 added - $49,999 added 1985 - 1988) ($20,000 added - $49,999 added 1989), ($25,000 added - $49,000 added or $35,000 guaranteed 1990) - indicated by "O" in 1985 and 1986 only

[OR] Other Races with Restrictions ($15,000 added - $49,999 added 1985 - 1988 ($20,000 added - $49,999 added 1989), ($25,000 added - $49,999 added or $35,000 guaranteed 1990) - indicated by "OR" in 1985 and 1986; from 1987 - 1990 carried with "R" only

[Q] Qualified Races - non-restricted allowance or handicap races in 1985 (only) that have a purse of $30,000 or more - indicated by "Q".

[N] A stakes race that does not qualify for "black type" because the purse level is too low. Levels are as follows ($14,999 added or less 1985 - 1988) ($19,999 added or less 1989), ($24,999 added or less 1990 to present) - races are listed for informational purposes as white-type races - indicated by "N" or "NR" (if restricted) in 1985 and 1986 only; from 1987 - 1990 carried with "R" only.

[vineyridge]

Alternative free site for pedigrees:
http://www.tesiopower.com/tb/pedigree.aspx

It doesn't have as many horses as Pedigree Query, and the formatting isn't as nice, but it offers one more generation and a sibling function.

[Barnfairy]

Ok what is SPR and CPI? I just pulled the equineline on my mare, Retrieve the Gold, and she has an SPR of 66 and a CPI of .9
As explained here: http://www.equibase.com/products/whatislifetimepp.cfm

SPR = Starts Percentile Ranking


A method of comparison developed by The Jockey Club Information Systems, Inc. SPR compares horses based on the following:
Horses of the same sex (i.e. only males compared to males and females compared to females).
Horses of the same age (i.e. 2 year olds, 3year olds, 4year olds and 5year olds and up).
Horses that race in the same year(s)All three of the criteria must match for the comparison to take place.
To calculate a horse's SPR, the horse's average earnings per start are compared to the average earnings per start of like horses (i.e. same sex, age and year(s) record). If a horse's SPR is 80, then it's average earnings per start are greater than 80% of like horses.




CPI = Class Performance Index


An index ranking which is calculated for each year and based on:
Horses of the same sex (i.e. only males compared to males and females compared to females)
Horses of the same age
Horses racing the same year(s)
Horses racing in the same countries
All of the criteria must match for the comparison to take place. To calculate a horse's CPI, the horse's average earnings per start is compared to the average of the average earnings per start of all like horses (i.e. if a horse's CPI is 5, then his average earnings per start is five times greater than the average of all like horses). Note: that this will never be a negative number.

[lilies34]

wow...i don't even know what those numbers mean!:no:

[AmandaandTuff]

OK, didn't see this one (but I may have missed it.)

Where can you find pictures of a horse that raced?(Like the winner) Are there any records of this kept by the race tracks, or is it purley between owner and photographer?

[Texarkana]

OK, didn't see this one (but I may have missed it.)

Where can you find pictures of a horse that raced?(Like the winner) Are there any records of this kept by the race tracks, or is it purley between owner and photographer?

I don't know if this has been addressed in this thread already, either. But to purchase a win photo of your horse, you can contact the track photographer. Call the specific racetrack's racing office to find out the photographer's info.

You will need to know:
Your horse's registered name, the date of the race, and the race number.

Provided the track hasn't changed photographers since your horse's win, they should be able to sell you a picture. :)

[Drvmb1ggl3]

If you scroll up the page you'll see that it's addressed. Use the search thread function, it's pull down menu to the right.

Also, a general forum search would bring up these....

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=2517429#post2517429
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=2305302#post2305302
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=2851700#post2851700
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=2713315#post2713315

[Mickey the Marcher]

ok

[loverhorse]

Great job!!!

can i say wowww!!!!

SaddleOnline Inc.

[diva4ever]

So this was sort of covered but I would like clarification...I came across my OTTB's race record and it showed that he raced on bute for 2 years or so, in addition to Lasix. Does that mean he was always racing hurt or was it for an edge (or both)? (ok so I might be a little nieve) I'm actually kind of shocked that they allow them to race with it in their system. I mean if a horse is hurt then it shouldn't race, right, cause it could get seriously (or fatally) injured? (again, nieve?) (does this mean that he could have potentially serious injuries- he's a "diamond in the rough" type of boy - but now I'm worried that there could be something serious that we don't know, although he's only been off when he got his feet chopped by the farrier).
Also, the record showed that in his last year of racing his med list showed BLA...I know the A is also for clotting so why would he be on Lasix and the other?

Thanks much...

[azerica]

I really don't understand what an overlay or underlay is. Can someone help me out on this?

[Linny]

Overlay and underlay are somewhat subjective. An underlay is a horse who's odds are lower than the bettor believes are his real chances of winning. An overlay is one who's odds are higher than his real chance of winning. Bettors are looking for overlays!

[azerica]

Overlay and underlay are somewhat subjective. An underlay is a horse who's odds are lower than the bettor believes are his real chances of winning. An overlay is one who's odds are higher than his real chance of winning. Bettors are looking for overlays!


ok so a horse without a chance of winning and has odds at say 4-1 is the underlay while the overlay is the horse that will most probably win but has odds of say 8-1? I think I got it?

[Drvmb1ggl3]

ok so a horse without a chance of winning and has odds at say 4-1 is the underlay while the overlay is the horse that will most probably win but has odds of say 8-1? I think I got it?

That's pretty much it, but I wouldn't use the words "without a chance" and "will most probably win". Basically if you think a horse should be 6/1 or better and he's trading at 8/1, then that's an overlay. In doesn't mean the horse will most probably win, and there could well be other legitimate favourites. In other words you're shopping for a bargain. Also a horse can be odds-on and still be an overlay, likewise a longshot can be an underlay.
It makes more sense, and is easier to do, with fixed odds betting than with pari-mutuel as you know you're getting value because you're locked in.

[justalittlex]

I've read this entire thread and learned ever so much-- thanks to all the people who took so much time to explain things.

I still have a few questions:
1. Why in horse breeding (and not just racing) is the sire so much more important than the dam?

2.Where does all the money come from in the big stakes? Like a million dollars in Delaware last weekend? And who gets that money?

3. When horses' names seem to be spelled wrong, is it because they weren't allowed proper spelling, or don't owners check how it's spelled?

4.Are there fewer female jockeys now than a few years ago?

[caffeinated]

1. Why in horse breeding (and not just racing) is the sire so much more important than the dam?

Well the dam is still half the equation. Sires are "important" because whoever owns them controls quite an asset. But from trying to learn about racing, the dams and her lines are considered very important. If you look at a sales catalog page, not only are the dam's winnings covered, but what her offspring did (and I think what her mother did too? would have to go look at one).

2.Where does all the money come from in the big stakes? Like a million dollars in Delaware last weekend? And who gets that money?

Betting income. And in states where there are "racinos," tracks with slot machines and the like pull in more money to offer bigger purses.


3. When horses' names seem to be spelled wrong, is it because they weren't allowed proper spelling, or don't owners check how it's spelled?

Sometimes it's a mistake, sometimes it's done on purpose as a play on words. Sometimes there's another horse of similar name already registered so they alter it slightly to make it different.

dunno about the female jockeys. :)

[Drvmb1ggl3]

I've read this entire thread and learned ever so much-- thanks to all the people who took so much time to explain things.

I still have a few questions:
1. Why in horse breeding (and not just racing) is the sire so much more important than the dam?

2.Where does all the money come from in the big stakes? Like a million dollars in Delaware last weekend? And who gets that money?

3. When horses' names seem to be spelled wrong, is it because they weren't allowed proper spelling, or don't owners check how it's spelled?

4.Are there fewer female jockeys now than a few years ago?

The sire isn't more important in each individual mating.
They just leave a bigger legacy because they have more offspring and also they are worth more money because they can earn more in stud fees. So in that sense they are generally more valuable.

Stakes money can come from several different sources, i) the takeout in betting handle, ii) entry fees and iii) sponsors.
The split in prizemoney can vary, but is usually 1st=60%, 2nd=20%, 3rd=10%, 4th=6% with the rest being payed out either through 5th or further depending on how the track wants to do it.

Wrong spelling can often be deliberate, or not. Hard to say, do you have an specific example?

[sk_pacer]

answers from the harness side

1) we place far more emphasis on the dam than the sire. The maternal side is what carries inherent speed, and the sire early speed (age related in the offspring). We feel that without the inherent speed (ability to carry beyond a year or so) there isn't a lot of point in breeding a mare - it IS done, sometimes you do luck out but rarely. Few sires are prepotent enough to put enough into a baby to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear

2) Stakes money comes from stakes payments, funding from assorted sources, and fees paid by the breeder to make a sire eligible for certain provincial and state stakes. There are also starting fees to be added to purses.

3) Frequently. misspellings are creative in nature rather than lack of spelling ability. Sometimes it is used because a name you want is already there or cannot be used for some reason or another, so, different spelling will allow it to go through. There is also compressed spellings that allow use of a name of more than the allowable letters and spaces. Creative spelling example: Pistn Broke (yep, he is real, nearly bought him); other creative spellings include the plethora of heeza sheeza names. Spelling badly to get by the registry: Roliad.....nope not kidding, the man really wanted to name the poor beast Rolaid. Compressed spelling is pretty self explanatory.

[justalittlex]

Thanks for your replies. I hadn't thought of how the sire can throw a zillion babies to build reputation and income but the dam has only a yearly output if that.

The spelling errors I meant were (made up) like Memerable Dream, not like Mouther in Law.

and thanks sk_pacer, for perspective on harness racing.

[BeastieSlave]

I have what is probably a dumb question.

In the past the races for my OTTB's have been recorded on their papers. My new, fresh from the track, mare supposedly has some races under her belt and has won a bit of money, but her papers don't show any races. Is that normal/possible?

[Laurierace]

The papers only show wins. If she won races and they aren't listed the papers are probably duplicates, that would be listed somewhere on the front of the papers.

[BeastieSlave]

Okay then! I didn't even think about that :lol: I couldn't find a record of her winning any races, but she does have some mentions online and I know she's come close ;)

[justalittlex]

What does a jock's agent do? (besides earn a percentage). How does the jockey get the ride exactly?

Is it considered okay to run a horse one week after it's run a race?

[Barnfairy]

Is it considered okay to run a horse one week after it's run a race?Generally speaking, yes.

You won't see a horse running back a week later at the highest levels much anymore, but it's not uncommon in the (lower) claiming ranks.

Once a horse has reached racing fitness, that needs to be maintained by doing gallops at speed on a regular basis; that can be achieved through works or races. At the lower levels the horse generally needs to be earning his keep, so the trainers opt for putting the horse in a race, where the horse at least has a chance of picking up a check, rather than doing a timed work in the morning. At peak fitness, it is standard for claimers to race every 10 to 15 days, often only walking or going for a light jog on the days in between. Sometimes it just happens that the next race the horse is eligible to run in will come up in 7 days rather than ten.

[justalittlex]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Barnfairy. I noticed Emmy Darling ran in a Grade 3 at Santa Anita today and had just raced last week.

Now could anyone explain to me what a jock's agent does?

[Barnfairy]

Now could anyone explain to me what a jock's agent does?I'm a little surprised nobody's answered this yet, but I think things have a tendency to get overlooked up here in sticky land.

Anyway, I found the following:

From an interview with jockey Jane Magrell (http://www.femalejockeys.com/Jane%20Magrell.html):
FOTH: For those who don't know would you tell people what a jockey agent does for you?

JM: An agent hustles a jockey for mounts, They cover the barn area and a lot of PR. They check you on your mounts and pick up more mounts at scratch time. Basically they handle all your business while you gallop and ride. But I haven't had one in a while. Many of the agents help me but I do it all on my own. They make 25% of your income. So, that is a good chunk of change if you have a good week or a bad week.


And from the Tim Woolley Racing page (http://www.timwoolleyracing.com/news/2006/08/frequently_aske.php):
How are jockeys engaged for the race?

Most jockeys will have an agent. It is the agent's task to book the jockey's mounts and deal with potential double-calls etc. Trainers do prefer to keep loyal to a few jockeys, some trainers simply try to book the best jockey available for a particular race. Thus there is a relationship (although sometimes tenuous) between the trainer and the jockeys that the trainer might engage for his / her horses. Sometimes the owner also has a particular preference, and they are able to influence the trainer. You may notice that a horse is often ridden by the same jockey for consecutive races.

[justalittlex]

Thanks, Barnfairy! I'd read news that Alex Solis had switched agents and I wondered about it.

[Linny]

Two horses from the Sunshine Millions events on Jan 24th returned a week later to run well. Dawn After dawn won an overnight stake in California and Finallymadeit who was off the board in the SM Classic almost pulled off an upset in the G1 Donn at Gulfstream.

In Dubai, a horse will run for the 5th time this year on Thursday. Afew weeks ago he was unplaced in the G3 Al Sindaga Sprint and then won the very next day in Abu Dhabi. He's run since and is entered back on a week's notice again. At the Racing Carnival many horses run several races close together, often 3 consecutive weeks or more.