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Mike Matson
Mar. 12, 2010, 07:25 PM
Does anybody use the full pass in their training?

Here's an excerpt from The Athletic Development of the Dressage Horse by Charles de Kunffy.

The full pass is not tested, but it is a valuable training and schooling movement, as it accentuates the virtues of the half-pass to the ultimate. Skelatal flexibility, muscular suppleness and strengthening balance are all exercised to an extraordinary degree during a full pass. The full pass should not be ignored just because it has less drilling appeal to those who ride merely for success in competition. It still has greater gymnastic value than the half-pass.

ctab
Mar. 12, 2010, 07:42 PM
"Full-pass
The horse as in half-pass is bent into the direction of movement but does not move forwards at all, it moves sideways only."

From: http://www.classicaldressage.net/glossary.html

I know this will get flamed... but isn't this something similar to what is required of Western horses? I see this often used over a pole as a requirement in trail (?) classes done over a pole.

Thanks for not flaming yet...
Found a rough video after a quick Google search..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlRQ_KTdKiA

EasyStreet
Mar. 12, 2010, 07:49 PM
I had an aquaintence that sent her apendix jumper to a "cowboy trainer" to desencitise and despook him. He used alot of side pass.

AmericaRunsOnDunkin
Mar. 12, 2010, 07:54 PM
"Full-pass
The horse as in half-pass is bent into the direction of movement but does not move forwards at all, it moves sideways only."

From: http://www.classicaldressage.net/glossary.html

I know this will get flamed... but isn't this something similar to what is required of Western horses? I see this often used over a pole as a requirement in trail (?) classes done over a pole.

No flaming :) I think it's good practice to see/use/compare/contrast what other disciplines do for gymnastics. Anyway, the previous poster mentioned it as well - the side pass. I believe in Western classes, they keep their horses straight rather than bent in the direction of the full pass. Regardless - its good stuff!

pluvinel
Mar. 12, 2010, 07:57 PM
Does anybody use the full pass in their training?
...............
The short answer is yes. Why do you ask?

Full pass is a great exercise to get the horse on the aids.

smithywess
Mar. 12, 2010, 08:03 PM
In the Western world this is called a 'side-pass' and de Kunffy is right in that it is an excellent gymnasticizing movement particularly if ridden in lightness,and without contraction. The gymnastic quality may be augmented by riding a transition into a reverse pirouette where by keeping the same bend the hind quarter is ridden around the forequarter as in a turn around the forehand but with the reversed bend. Another variant, to make life interesting, is a transition from full-pass to walk pirouette around the hindquarter and also in the same bend. Of course one can also transition between walk pirouette as described and reverse pirouette as described missing out the full-pass. It depends on the lightness with which your horse responds to the upper and lower aids that determines the regularity of the steps between these transitions and that,of course,is the desired concept.

Mike Matson
Mar. 12, 2010, 08:06 PM
The short answer is yes. Why do you ask?

Full pass is a great exercise to get the horse on the aids.

I ask, you answer, that why I ask. :cool:

Mike Matson
Mar. 12, 2010, 08:11 PM
I use full pass at the walk in the corner, per a KM exercise. Stop 5 meters prior to the corner - full pass from the wall, turn on the forehand to parallel the the new wall, full pass to the wall. Proceed in trot. It engages the haunches.

luckles
Mar. 12, 2010, 08:30 PM
I also learned that exercise from Karl and it is invaluable.

Zevida
Mar. 12, 2010, 08:44 PM
Interesting exercise!

I have used full pass (side pass) in my training recently. My horse is lazy behind and will get lazy with the lateral work and the full pass helps to wake up his hind end and get his legs crossing and thinking sideways. It has helped him to be more reactive/forward and better in his lateral work. I remember the first few times I tried to ride it he threw a fit about moving sideways - did not want to go over at all! I even had to hop off him twice in one ride to work him in hand as he was blowing me off so badly. He's improved so much in the full pass and his other lateral work has benefited.

Mike Matson
Mar. 12, 2010, 08:55 PM
KM warns of the initial resistance problem you talk about Zevida. Some horses just take to it.

piggiponiis
Mar. 12, 2010, 10:26 PM
i use it all the time. wonderful for unlocking and getting reach in the shoulders. i do it only in the walk. Anyone use it @ trot or canter?

selah
Mar. 12, 2010, 11:40 PM
I was reminded of a youtube I watched about a bullfighting horse...I am certainly not advocating bullfighting, but I think it's an illustration of extreme full-pass. This horse is incredible!

(Please don't watch if you are offended by bullfighting content)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgG_Gwy7Ysg&feature=player_embedded#

Grataan
Mar. 13, 2010, 01:04 AM
i use it all the time. wonderful for unlocking and getting reach in the shoulders. i do it only in the walk. Anyone use it @ trot or canter?

I use it with my western trail class horses-mostly in the trot (and I mean TROT, not the "Wot" half walk half trot WP jog) I'm fairly certain that I am probably not performing it quite the way an upper level dressage competitor would, but for our discipline we do it mostly correctly (hey, I'm still an ammy lol)

I think incorporating movements from other disciplines (especially dressage) really helps my primary disciplines, plus it gives my horses variety.

Which is another reason I venture over here to the land of Dressage Forum (I come in peace ;) ), like another poster mentioned, hearing what/how other disciplines handle things helps me become a better rider.

jgrass
Mar. 13, 2010, 09:18 AM
I like to have that in the toolbox - nice for getting lined up with the mounting block to dismount from a tall horse, nice to be able to open a gate without dismounting. It's just plain useful for a horse to be able to do that - even a dressage horse.

And then there was Simon: Simon could do a full pass at the gallop whenever the devil whispered to him. That was *not* a lot of fun or particularly useful.

Schiffon
Mar. 13, 2010, 09:19 AM
I've never seen a western horse do a true full pass. Their side pass is typically done with counter flexion or none at all, akin to a leg yield and much easier. I spent the first 15 years of my riding career riding western and showing extensively.

Mr. Theodorescu occasionally had us do full pass. His exercise was to full pass most of the width of the arena, rein back, full pass the other way, repeat. He wanted the steps to be quite lively which made it a very strenuous exercise.

smithywess
Mar. 13, 2010, 11:55 AM
Hello Schiffon,
If you've seen Western horses in sideways movements similar to leg yield then you've seen incorrect 'sidepasses' as they call them. In competition they should get marked down but in many shows the A.Q.H.A. judges I've talked to have little understanding of the movement. The rule book calls for the horse to be straight.If there is any bend at all the concavity of the bend should be in the direction of movement. There should be a slight lateral flexion at the poll so that the horse looks to where he is stepping sideways. Your exercize, taught by Mr. Theodorescu as you describe it is indeed a very useful one but again,especially, when ridden in lightness and with a relaxed lower jaw.