Mushroom Matrix? Huh? Anyone used it?

[naters]

Has anyone tried MUSHROOM MATRIX for their horses?

How does it work / why does it work as a calming supplement?

[ThoroughbredFancy]

The last thing I need is an OTTB tripping on shrooms.











Hehe, sorry. I couldn't help myself. :winkgrin:

[deltawave]

Good lord, I almost hate to ask. Is there no end? :rolleyes:

[naters]

The last thing I need is an OTTB tripping on shrooms.











Hehe, sorry. I couldn't help myself. :winkgrin:




My thoughts exactly! Saw it on another thread and had never heard of it, but I was envisioning my gelding going "hey mannnnn, what's up" in a really, laid back kind of voice :lol:





.

[naters]

Good lord, I almost hate to ask. Is there no end? :rolleyes:


Yeah, me too, but I had to ask.... trying to envision my horse on shrooms :lol:

[JB]

Not all mushrooms are hallucinogens ;)

There is SOME valid evidence of certain mushrooms having some healing properties. I couldn't tell you what amount it takes for a human, much less a horse.

[CosMonster]

:lol: I first read the title as "Mushroom Magic" and that really brought up the 'shrooms connection. I should stop making these types of posts, though, or you guys will start thinking I'm some kind of dirty hippie. :uhoh:

Anyway, I'm not sure I'd feed a horse mushrooms...doesn't seem like something they eat too much on their own and while I like mushrooms quite a bit myself (the non-magic kind ;)), it just doesn't seem like it would be worth spending money on. I could be wrong, though. That's just my gut reaction.

[naters]

Just wondering what it is supposed to do exactly! :lol:

[Melyni]

Just wondering what it is supposed to do exactly! :lol:

what does the package say? What do they claim?
MW

[Melyni]

Good lord, I almost hate to ask. Is there no end? :rolleyes:

But it's one of the joys of a free market.
ANd in the end it all settles down to the ones that work anyway.

AS long as it does not actively harm any horses.

MW

[deltawave]

AS long as it does not actively harm any horses.


But passively harming them is OK? :)

Only partially kidding--no offense, but I think there is a "down side" to the current mindset that "there is a supplement for everything, and every horse (or human) needs supplements" that is being promulgated by the industry.

[naters]

what does the package say? What do they claim?
MW


basically "overall health and wellness".

[Melyni]

basically "overall health and wellness".

I mean you could make this claim about just about any feedstuff that isn't toxic!

But you had originally asked about how did it work as a calmative, and I wasn't aware that they had any calmative claims on their literature.


I've seen the booth at various expos, and I did once glance over their handout, nothing jumped out at me except a few medical claims which the FDA would make short work of as soon as they see it.


It's a free market, up to a point!

These folk are often spinning off from the human market and tend not to realize that DSHEA does not apply to animals.

Yours
MW

[naters]

I was just relaying the general message of the label, when asked. "overall health and wellness".

The question is why would it work as a calming supplement (as claimed by another poster in another thread).

Two different issues. I am not buying it or trying it. Was just curious, what about it would make it a calming supplement.

(well, except for the shroom factor) :winkgrin:

[Melyni]

I was just relaying the general message of the label, when asked. "overall health and wellness".

The question is why would it work as a calming supplement (as claimed by another poster in another thread).

Two different issues. I am not buying it or trying it. Was just curious, what about it would make it a calming supplement.

(well, except for the shroom factor) :winkgrin:

if anything. Though the shroom effect might be interesting, maybe I should take some and see what it does!

I don't think that it has any actual effect calming or otherwise.
MW

[atr]

A bunch of ladies at a barn I used to board at got sucked in by this at a show by some celebrity endorser who ought to know better and all came back with hugely expensive pots of this stuff.

They claimed, I believe, that it helped calm and focus the horse.

I smiled and nodded and carried on with my life.

[deltawave]

For all the "calming and focusing" products that are out there, I sure see a heck of a lot of frazzled, distracted horses. Generally being ridden by riders that fit the same description. :D

[Auventera Two]

Only partially kidding--no offense, but I think there is a "down side" to the current mindset that "there is a supplement for everything, and every horse (or human) needs supplements" that is being promulgated by the industry.

You're right that the stream of supplements to cure what ails is seemingly endless. But keep in mind that the wild (or feral) horse will eat many different foods that they aren't allowed to eat in captivity.....tree bark, sticks, thorns, berries, flowers, fruits, weeds, seed heads, nuts, vines, a variety of grasses, and even dirt or clay. The horse will eat a variety of foods, depending on the geographic area in which the herd roams, and what is available.

My horses scrape the algae off the water tank in the summer time. (Yes, I keep them clean, but in hot sun, algae can flourish in 48 hours.) They also stick their nose under the water and pull up long shoots of swamp grass growing out of river beds. They eat them dirt and all.

Many of these supplements are giving the horse alternatives to the same ole cultivated hay and grain preparation.

The average horse owners labors to kill all the weeds in the pastures and fence off trees so the bark isn't eaten. On trail rides, it's considered bad manners to make a grab for the blackberry leaves or other tempting green thing. The wild or feral horse would eat many of the things that we just don't let them have!

I do believe that horses (as well as most domesticated animals - and even humans) are likely deficient in certain micronutrients and I see nothing wrong with giving supplements that aims to give back a portion of what we deny the horse.

No, I don't believe that any ONE supplement is a magic potion, but I don't see anthing wrong with affording the horse a variety of foods derived from different sources. This supports good digestion, immune function, sound hooves, etc. because many diverse nutrients are required for the entire body to be well fed and healthy.

Many of the supplements we take, and give to our animals is simply adding diversity to the diet, which we would all be getting if we were feeding ourselves correctly and our horses were roaming and grazing. But thanks to fast food and domestications, things have changed for all of us. That's not a bad thing - it just is what it is.

I read an article in The Horse sometime back (I'll try to find it) showing that when horses are given a wide variety of foods, that many vices cease such as stall walking or cribbing. When the horse is fed armloads of the same hay day in and day out, they become board and the vices start up again. The horse evolved as a wanderer eating many different foods, depending on what was available. We have this idea that horses have to eat the same load of hay from the same crop from the same farmer all year long, and the same scoop of grain.

[deltawave]

I disagree that supplements necessarily add diversity. Most of them are the same 10 or 12 "special" ingredients, mixed up yet another way to keep the shtick fresh.

Feral horses may be eating bark, twigs and lichens because they're a better option than starvation, not to provide themselves with some sort of natural pharmacopoeia. A feral horse, if it found a 50 pound bag of Omolene 300, would also eat it and promptly die. :) I don't trust horses to know what's good for them, not in the slightest. ;)

[Auventera Two]

Hmm, well then we just diagree I guess.

It would be interesting to talk to the owners of BLM mustangs and see if they just vaccumed up sweet feed the first time they were exposed to it or not. We've had 3 horses that never were given any sort of treats in their life and thought that a sweet red apple or a nice fresh carrot was poison. When I bought my stallion, it took probably 3 months before he would touch a sweet horse cookie, apple, or a carrot. He ate grain because he was accustomed to that. I don't think horses necessarily gravitate to what is sweet and sticky but more likely what they are accustomed to eating. Obviously though once they develop a taste for it (like us with french fries), it becomes a craved item. My mother's off track TB went years before she would touch any kind of treat. The third was a rescued Lipp mare who never did eat an apple or carrot the entire time she was here.

And sure they'd starve if they didn't eat a variety of things, but that doesn't mean that the variety is not desirable.

No different than dogs. A wild dog's natural diet is meat, bones, skin, organ tissue, and the like. When we feed domesticated dogs a diet of 80% ground yellow corn, we have nobody to blame but ourselves that they suffer the behavioral and physical issues that they do.

And your extreme disdain for the equine supplement industry is noted, but think - how many types and brands of toilet paper do we have? Single ply, double ply, biodegradeable, extra soft, double roll, triple roll, recycled materials, non-recycled materials, quilted, plush........All are designed to do the same thing right? But each has their own little marketing gimmicks and claims that they're supposedly "better." They all claim to be the softest, the strongest, the most economical. In reality, TP is TP as far as I'm concerned.

So yeah, a joint supplement is a joint supplement - but each have their own little attributes. One supplies 10,000 MSM, another only 5,000, and so forth. One has glucosamine, one doesn't. Each owner has to choose what they believe may be helpful to their individual horse. I use supplements and I'm glad they're available. I've seen GREAT results with various products. Live and let live :D

[deltawave]

And your extreme disdain for the equine supplement industry is noted

As is your extreme disdain for regular dog food. :) And agreeing to disagree is fine by me. :) We all have our pet peeves.

Just because there are 100 brands of toilet paper doesn't mean our butts need the variety. :D Maybe horses are like butts, hmmmm, there's an analogy there someplace. :p

[lizathenag]

My cousin, Jane Hannigan uses it on her horse, Maksymillian and is happy with the results.
http://www.horsesdaily.com/news/health/mushrooms/testimonials/hannigan.html

[Auventera Two]

As is your extreme disdain for regular dog food. :) And agreeing to disagree is fine by me. :) We all have our pet peeves.

Just because there are 100 brands of toilet paper doesn't mean our butts need the variety. :D Maybe horses are like butts, hmmmm, there's an analogy there someplace. :p

Given that "regular" dog food is 80% ground corn, and 20% fillers, carcinogens, and garbage, yeah I have a disdain for it. :lol:

But anyway, I think supplemtation can be so beneficial if it is targeted and well thought out.

I'm happy that you own a perfectly happy healthy horse that doesn't need anything extra. Not everybody is so lucky.

[naters]

My cousin, Jane Hannigan uses it on her horse, Maksymillian and is happy with the results.
http://www.horsesdaily.com/news/health/mushrooms/testimonials/hannigan.html


Very cool!! I wish I had cousins like that, with horses like that!

[deltawave]

I think supplemtation can be so beneficial if it is targeted and well thought out.


Me too. And I even use some. :) But mushrooms for "general good health"? Nah. :lol: And I do feed regular dog food, to "supplement" my dog's preferred diet of horse sh*t, chicken sh*t, cat sh*t and sticks. :D Not one doggie cancer in 30+ years including 10 of those breeding them by the horde. Lucky? Doubt it.

[mp]

Me too. And I even use some. :) But mushrooms for "general good health"? Nah.

Just the name "Mushroom Matrix" made me laugh. Reminds me of the good old days in consumer product advertising, when the name of the game was convincing people to buy products to fix problems they didn't know they had.

And I do feed regular dog food, to supplement my dog's preferred diet of horse sh*t, chicken sh*t, cat sh*t and sticks.

Oh, the humanity. Or dogmanity. :lol:

I feed regular dog food and table scraps, too. And my dog seems to thrive -- sh*t, carcinogenic-laden dog food and scraps notwithstanding. Of course, this same dog was off her food for a few days and when we took her to the vet, he found .22 slug in her intestines. So maybe she's an exception.

[deltawave]

.22 slug in her intestines

Lead poisoning! Did it get in from a projectile method, or did she swallow it? :eek:

My poor golden almost died from a carrot-induced intestinal obstruction. Dumb beast. :lol:

the name of the game was convincing people to buy products to fix problems they didn't know they had

I'd say those days are still here.

[mp]

Lead poisoning! Did it get in from a projectile method, or did she swallow it? :eek:

My poor golden almost died from a carrot-induced intestinal obstruction. Dumb beast. :lol:

Unfortunately, someone shot her. The bullet entered just behind her rib cage and traveled toward the front of her body. She apparently was running away from whoever fired it.

The entry wound was very small and right in the middle of a whorl of hair, so we didn't see it. Neither did the vet. He found the bullet on an X-ray. Because it had been there several days, he had to resection her intestines. But she's been fine ever since, and does not stray off our property. Now, I'll have to make sure she stays away from carrots, too. ;)

I'd say those days are still here.

They certainly are when it comes to horse owners, it seems.

[hitchinmygetalong]

I'm happy that you own a perfectly happy healthy horse that doesn't need anything extra. Not everybody is so lucky.

I think the perfectly happy healthy horse that doesn't need anything extra is actually the norm. It's unfortunate that you seem to have nutritional problems with all of your horses, and I'm glad you've gotten them all sorted out.

As for me, personally, I thought the mushroom thing was a joke, too. Sadly, I was mistaken.

I'm a HUGE believer in the KISS system of horsekeeping. The more you muck around with this and that concoction, the greater the likelihood that you're going to create a problem. The ONE time I put my horse on an over-the-counter supplement, it threw his entire metabolism into a tailspin. After a long discussion with my veterinarian about the delicacies of the equine endocrine system, I tossed out the remaining supplement and went with grass hay, pasture (with a grazing muzzle), and a handful of M30. No grain because he simply didn't need it - those old type Morgans are hardy buggers. Horse never looked back.

And the upside to the KISS system is that there are fewer chances of something problematic getting into your horse. That way if he suddenly breaks out in a rash you have a much narrower group of suspects.

[saratoga]

I think the perfectly happy healthy horse that doesn't need anything extra is actually the norm. It's unfortunate that you seem to have nutritional problems with all of your horses, and I'm glad you've gotten them all sorted out.

As for me, personally, I thought the mushroom thing was a joke, too. Sadly, I was mistaken.

I'm a HUGE believer in the KISS system of horsekeeping. .

I think that happy, healthy animals without all kinds of supplements and drugs are the norm too. Honestly with a lot of the horses and pets that "need" this stuff and have all kinds of problems, I wonder if its a problem with the animal or the owner, the chicken or the egg type of thing.

[deltawave]

There are a lot of convoluted theories and consumer group research about the self-perceived "healthiness" of people who tend to be on either end of the supplement-buying spectrum. From what I gather, people that buy the most of them tend to grade their health as lower/poorer than non-buyers. Which is of course perfectly logical.

What I can't understand is why people who use one after the other, and keep insisting that they're wonderful, they're great, they really help . . . and yet they keep buying more and more and newer and newer ones looking for that magic bullet. To me this suggests that the benefit they derive is not from the product, but from the pursuit of "the one". Kind of like people that are never happy with their saddle, their horse, their trainer, etc. and keep "upgrading" but are never happy. The problem ain't the saddle, the horse, or the trainer . . .

Which is not to say this is the norm--lots of people have their favorite products, are happy with them, and all's well. But the industry (yes I have a giant negative bias towards the supplement industry) sort of makes it really, really easy to develop a pathological relationship with buying the next best one.

[MistyBlue]

Now see I saw Mushroom Matrix and I got an instant mind-image of a shiitake in a full length black plastic coat dodging bullets in slow motion. :cool: <--wearing these shades of course.
:lol: :winkgrin: :lol:

After doing wildlife rehab for a few decades...I can say with complete comfort:
Wild Diets are not optimum.

And nope, not even optimum for the wild animals. And even less optimum for domesticated animals.

Why? because Mother Nature made only a very very very few animals that are supposed to have a long lifespan. The rest are designed to either wear out, starve, get eaten, get injured or age before their times. To keep ecosystems balanced.

Wild canids gets tons of different cancers too. It's quite common. Finding cancerous tumors on coyotes is normal. Same with feral and wild dogs. And wolves. And dingos. They also get allergies, respiratory illnesses, common colds, etc. If you don't do rehab, you're not going to see these animals. They don't last long on their own. :no:

A wild dog, feral dog or wild canid of any sort lives approximately 50-75% of the lifespan of one in captivity being fed and protected and innoculated by humans. Go figure.

A wild horse forages...for whatever is edible. To survive. It will eat or lick certain things due to preferred tastes, not to supplement itself. They also founder, get abcesses, colic, get heart murmurs, etc. Also...they don't last long. Go on out on the range and find a feral horse over the age of 15. Maybe one in every 50 will live over the age of 15. I don't know about other folks...but I'd question my horse keeping practices if my horses were all dropping by the age of 15.

As for supplements...I've used a few here and there once in a while for short terms over my lifetime. Joint ones usually. But I'd hazard a guess that 90% of the horses I've owned and sold, owned and kept, etc over time have had excellent quality hay, small amounts of grain if needed, access to a salt block, all the fresh clean water they need and an RB if hay tested low in something. And that's it. And I've had very little health problems. My last mare passed away from congestive heart failure caused by heat stroke. I had a gelding to had stones and then ended up with RDC due to a really dingbat newly graduated vet dosing him with Banamine when he was dehydrated from the stones. He healed up 100% from that thank goodness. The rest of them? No colics (knock on wood) no founder no navicular no ulcers no heaves no allergies no IR no problems. On hay, tiny amount of grain, salt and water.

So yeah, IMO the vast amount of horses are happy and healthy ones as long as they're managed somewhat efficiently. Sure you'll get one here or there with glitches that cause health issues despite stellar owner care. But if an owner has many horses with various chronic or "common" health issues..I'd start looking into daily normal care, environment and each horses' type and amount of work instead of supplements and diet changes and majic mushrooms and adding cantalopes and broccoli, etc.
And if the horse is a nervous wreck...look into handling and owner comfort levels rather than adding calming supplements. Horses are very in tune with picking up vibes from other mammals. If the owner is expecting a nervous horses that horse will give them a nervous horse. ;)

[Deepseat]

There are a lot of horse owners and trainers that use and swear by the Mushroom Matrix products. These supplements are organic and proven.

Mushroom Matrix Formulas combine both mushroom fruit bodies and bio-active mycelia (the "whole mushroom" organism) in unique formulas that optimizes each mushroom's enzymatic structure and benefit. They contain cultured levels of transporters and antioxidants to provide needed protection and enhancement. These blends provide the most powerful anti-oxidative and enzyme properties found in any
food product. They provide oxidative stress support and natural immune supportive agents.

Several of nature's most powerful antioxidants and synergistic enzyme matrix systems are found in significant abundance in certain specially-grown species of exotic, medicinal mushrooms that Mushroom Matrix utilizes.


• L-Ergothioneine (LE), a substance mushrooms have in abundance, is one of the most potent antioxidants in the world. ONE unit of L-ERGO equals approximately 7, 000 units of Trolox (water soluble vitamin E). What is most fascinating is that mammals cannot synthesize L-ERGO but contain a unique TRANSPORT SYSTEM to ensure delivery of this essential nutrient to key cells and sites of oxidative stress.

• Beta Glucans - Potent and proven immune response potentiators and modulators.

• Polyphenols - Potent biological response modifiers.
• Organic Selenium compounds - An essential trace element with important antioxidant and metabolic energy activity.

• Amino Acids - Essential amino acids occurring in mushrooms increase the biological value of equine feeds.

• Glycoproteins - Key building blocks of the immune system, antibodies, hormones, connective tissue, and are important for cellular recognition and defense.

The effects and benefits of improved antioxidant and enzyme food matrix status include improved stress response as evidenced by improved mental focus, external bio-markers of improved health such as improved coat sheen, muscle tone, digestion, stamina, growth, cellular recovery, and reproductive potential.

[deltawave]

Please define "proven".

Words like "support", "promote", "potentiate", "optimize" etc. are nutraceutical-speak for . . . well, they are words for nutrients. Since products like this are forbidden by FDA/USDA regulations to make claims as to actual benefits, these kinds of words are just short of that, and therefore legal and used heavily. And they mean bupkus, really. :rolleyes:

Statements like "increase the biological value" and "improved stress response" are huge red flags for a product that can make no claims whatsoever except that there are nutrients in it. But dang, those marketing people can flog these buzzwords like anybody's business. :lol:

Someone is trying to make the culture medium in which mushrooms are commonly grown smell like flowers commonly gifted on valentine's day. :D

[Katy Watts]

I read an article in The Horse sometime back (I'll try to find it) showing that when horses are given a wide variety of foods, that many vices cease such as stall walking or cribbing.

Or, you can stop keeping them in stalls.

[Katy Watts]

I knew this woman who took some kind of mushroom tea for menopause symptoms. She was a raving BITCH! so I guess it didn't work well.