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View Full Version : Herm Sprenger - WH vs. KK (vs. the Mikmar cupreon?)



supaflyskye
Mar. 10, 2010, 06:32 PM
I'm looking into a new bit for my 4-y/o. He currently goes in a JP copper mouth lozenge loose ring, and does not go poorly in it. However, he has an extremely soft, almost touchy mouth, and I've come to believe that I would get a more consistent performance out of him in a different bit. He has rather small mouth, as well, and I think that his current bit is a little thick and unwieldly for him.
He likes to chew and play w/ the bit quite a lot, too.

These are the bits I'm currently looking at. I'd appreciate any input you have on these or any others you'd reccomend. I'm also curious in which you prefer and what exactly the differences are in the WH bits, the KK, and Mikmar's cupreon alloy.
links:
one (http://www.doversaddlery.com/herm-sprenger-wh-ultra-loose-ring-snaffle-bit/p/X1-01894/cn/1457/)
two (http://www.doversaddlery.com/mikmar-cupreon-loose-ring-snaffle-bit-with-french-link-roller/p/X1-010202/cn/1457/)
three (http://www.doversaddlery.com/herm-sprenger-kk-ultra-loose-ring-snaffle-bit/p/X1-01354/cn/4650/)
four (http://www.doversaddlery.com/herm-sprenger-wh-ultra-soft-loose-ring-snaffle-bit/p/X1-01881/cn/1457/)

CHT
Mar. 10, 2010, 06:39 PM
More info needed:

Does he had a big, small or average sized tongue?
Low, high or average height palate?
Thick or thin lips? Short or long mouth?

Most warmbloods have a thick tongue, fat lips, and a low palate. Bar shape seems to vary.

The bit should be selected to fit the individual horse's mouth; what is comfy for one horse, may be very uncomfortable/cruel to another.

supaflyskye
Mar. 10, 2010, 07:03 PM
I would say he has a fairly average sized tongue, perhaps a liiittle bit smaller than average, w/ a typical palate, and slightly on-the-thin-side lips. He has a fairly long mouth, especially considering it is narrow, and his teeth seem to take up a little more room in his mouth than one would expect.
He is a Thoroughbred/Saddlebred cross.

Equa
Mar. 10, 2010, 08:08 PM
I have a similar sounding horse: his reactions to your suggested bits have been:
1 - hates it (offended)
2 - not too happy, the joints that link to the lozenge a little too close to the inside of the corner of the mouth
3 - a little better
4 - would not try

This is what I have found to be very good - I think the curve is great, it doesn't jingle around or pinch like a loose ring, and has a nice, small lozenge...

http://www.doversaddlery.com/herm-sprenger-dynamic-rs-d-ring-snaffle-bit/p/X1-01340/cn/4650/

joiedevie99
Mar. 10, 2010, 08:18 PM
I just put my new horse in a KK Dynamic RS loose ring and love it! Who knows what your horse will think, but my guy goes quite well in it. He goes fine in the KK Ultra, but is noticeably softer in the Dynamic. I'm contemplating trying the bradoon on his double- but I fear the 14mm will be too thick with his fat mouth HS curb.

RedMare01
Mar. 10, 2010, 08:18 PM
My mare's mouth sounds like your horses, and this is the bit that I want to try next:

http://www.doversaddlery.com/product.asp?pn=X1-011925&ids=1008198359

I have heard mucho good things about it.

Caitlin

supaflyskye
Mar. 10, 2010, 08:41 PM
hmm.
I don't know why I didn't think of the Dynamic. His current bit has a curved mouthpiece as well, and he goes decently in it. He does have brief moments of otherwise unexplained resistance, though, when I take up more contact/follow his mouth less than he likes. I think honestly, that the main problem is the size of his bit. So the Dynamic, with the the 14mm mouthpiece would resolve that problem.
it's sounding like a very good idea. thank you for the suggestions.

paddles
Mar. 10, 2010, 09:23 PM
Two possibilities you might consider:

http://www.thepaddockinc.com/Stubben_Steeltec_Bit_2220_Loose_Ring_Snaffle_p/stubb2220.htm A 14mm bit with a copper peanut.
http://www.thepaddockinc.com/Stubben_Steeltec_Bit_2222_Loose_Ring_Snaffle_p/stubb2222.htm

Much less expensive than Sprenger, equal technolgy, from its modern sweet copper alloy to the excellent finish.

quietann
Mar. 10, 2010, 10:41 PM
FYI, Bit of Britain has a "bit rental" program for some of the herm Sprenger bits. Check it out!

CHT
Mar. 11, 2010, 01:19 AM
Have you tried the Myler comfort mouth? I find it is a good bit for the type of mouth you describe.

Nancequine
Mar. 11, 2010, 01:29 AM
Hey I second that suggestion to try the HS Dynamic Bit. My horse is pretty strong (he's a jumper, I was checking out the other forums) so I usually don't ride him in a snaffle but he absolutely loves the bit and goes great in it, no lugging or dragging me around. It must be the shape because I have tried other Augarian snaffle bits before with little luck. If at all possible borrow one to see if it works for your horse. They're individuals and even though everyone else says it's great it is up to their preference as to what they like.

Peggy
Mar. 11, 2010, 01:46 AM
I have one that goes in either the dynamic RS or the duo, depending. We have decided that the latter is more of a summer bit for this particular horse. With both he takes hold in a good way without getting defensive (for lack of a better word) and stiff with his neck. With the RS I feel that I have better brakes (use both for jumping, which this horse is a tad bit more enthusiastic about).

Sandy M
Mar. 11, 2010, 01:49 AM
Have you tried the Myler comfort mouth? I find it is a good bit for the type of mouth you describe.


And my old horse, sensitive mouth, large tongue shallow palate, small mouth...HATED all the dressage-legal Mylers. What did he like? A french mouth Baucher. All the KKs were too much of a mouthful for him.

My youngster is less fussy, big mouth (big head), and he likes the Stuebben loosering knock off of the KK that isn't as large/thick. Once when I left my bridle at home after I had cleaned it, I grabbed my old horse's bridle with the french-mouth Baucher, and he was tolerant and went well in that, but seems to prefer the loosering Steubben.

Ysabel
Mar. 11, 2010, 10:23 AM
I have been using the 4th bit (WH Ultra Soft) with my older mare for the past six years - she has a small and sensitive mouth and I had a hard time finding a bit she would except contact in that was thin enough not to bruise her gums. The WH Ultra Soft has worked great for her.

I now have one for my young mare and so far she has been going very well in it. She has a short & shallow mouth with a medium sized tongue.

quietann
Mar. 11, 2010, 10:27 AM
I have been using the 4th bit (WH Ultra Soft) with my older mare for the past six years - she has a small and sensitive mouth and I had a hard time finding a bit she would except contact in that was thin enough not to bruise her gums. The WH Ultra Soft has worked great for her.

I now have one for my young mare and so far she has been going very well in it. She has a short & shallow mouth with a medium sized tongue.

I'm not sure this one's legal for dressage, because of the roller. But I will leave the determination to someone else!

Another thing to try if a regular snaffle is too thick is the bradoon version, if it exists. It will be thinner.

esdressage
Mar. 11, 2010, 10:50 AM
Mt mare also has a smallish mouth and I third the KK Dynamic RS loose ring. My mare absolutely loves it, and I love the feel I have of her with it. Almost velvety soft, very nice communication.

paddles
Mar. 11, 2010, 11:27 AM
and he likes the Stuebben loosering knock off of the KK that isn't as large/thick. ..... but seems to prefer the loosering Steubben.

When the designer makes a few subtle changes to an already good product does that make it a 'knock off' .

Stübben's designer has long experience designing bits like Sprenger's and has employed that experience in these two examples.

Sandy M
Mar. 11, 2010, 11:42 AM
When the designer makes a few subtle changes to an already good product does that make it a 'knock off' .

Stübben's designer has long experience designing bits like Sprenger's and has employed that experience in these two examples.

No insult intended. Just a quick was to describe what the bit looks like, rather than say "the Steubben bit that looks sorta like a KK, but isn't German silver, and isn't as thick as a KK." Few words, y'know. And the Steubben is a little less expensive than the KK.

Ysabel
Mar. 11, 2010, 12:36 PM
I'm not sure this one's legal for dressage, because of the roller. But I will leave the determination to someone else!

The 4th bit (the one I use) does not have a roller - it is just a rubber covered bean - and it is legal for dressage shows.

The 1st bit is the WH with the roller - it is also now legal for dressage shows in Canada - I don't know the US rules.
:cool:

caddym
Mar. 11, 2010, 01:50 PM
The first bit is not legal in the US - except in the FEI young horse classes

CHT
Mar. 11, 2010, 02:01 PM
SandyM, the Myler comfortmouth tends to work best for horses with big/long lips, which may be why your horse hated it. It tends to hand too low in the mouth of a horse with "tight" lips. I too like the Baucher for your type of horse. The OP said her horse has Long lips though.