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View Full Version : Can we start a reference thread for the various diagnostic options and technologies?



Tiramit
Sep. 1, 2004, 09:12 AM
It seems that everyone I know lately has been flailing around with bizzare equine "issues" that have been difficult to diagnose and, subsequently, treat. These range from the typical mysterious lameness to immunological disorders to my own horse's skewed tail. Vets from local clinics to very large hospitals have offered various suggestions as to how these issues can better be detected. I'm talking about MRI's, bone scans, blood samples, exploratory surgery, shockwave, etc. For most of the people I know, these "tools" are new to them and have not been well-explained (especially the cost).

So how about starting a thread on the common and not so common options out there, what they show, what's involved, and typical costs? If we get enough information, perhaps it could end up in the reference forum?

I'll start (and please, add to my comments!) with one a horse I know just went through:
---------------------------------

Bone scan (Nuclear Scintigraphy)

What is it? A process of injecting a horse with a radioactive / dye combination shot that results in a color-coded photo displaying injuries to the skeleton. The body is color coded by "activity", thereby showing hot points where the horse has pain or discomfort. Different sections of the horse can be imaged - front half, back half, just the legs, etc.

What is done? The horse is injected iv with dye that attaches itself to all active bone cells and a radioactive compound. The drugs move through the blood stream and show skeletal damage and injury. Highly active bone will be more radioactive.

It's a slow procedure, taking up to a couple of hours for certain images. The horse will be slightly radioactive for up to 48 hours after the procedure.

Cost? Anywhere from $900 - 2500.

luvmytrakehnerwb
Sep. 1, 2004, 09:25 AM
Good idea tiramit! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Bea
Sep. 1, 2004, 09:57 AM
Tiramit, fantastic idea! At the moment I can only think of things I'd like to know more about. Besides the ones you listed -- love to know more about MRIs for feet -- I would add treadmill tests and sacrum injections, and think LH's freezing machine should be on this thread.

Lord Helpus
Sep. 1, 2004, 10:41 AM
Great idea, Tiramit. Hopefully, it can be stickied to the top so it is available for everyone to use and add on to.

How 'bout we also provide links to the different threads that go into detail on the pro's and con's of each treatment to really help people find all the discussions on each topic?

It would also be nice to have people chime in with where each test can be performed, as far as they know, in case someone wanted to pursue a certain test near where they lived.

For instance, I was quite surprised to find out that none of the vet hospitals in Lexington, Ky have put in a MRI (yet), although there is a talk and one may be available in the near future. The closest MRI right now is in Va.

In fact, Rood and Riddle is just now building a new wing for an in ground tread mill for diagnostic purposes.

Rood and Riddle does offer nuclear scanning -- a full body scan is approximately $1200 - $1500.

Lower limb ultra sound is $150

Shock wave treatment is $300/session.

The new carbon dioxide (CO2) treatment for *freezing* (taking down to zero degrees centigrade) hot splints and recent soft tissue injuries is $40/session with minimum of 7 - 10 sessions recommended. More detail on this procedure can be found here. (http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=6656094911&f=5206053911&m=232205853)

Tiramit
Sep. 1, 2004, 11:54 AM
Good ideas! We can add more as we think of them.

Here's another, more basic technique:
-------
Flex Tests:

What is it? A quick method detecting lamenesses by stressing joints for a few minutes (someone holds the leg up high and tight, thereby stressing the joints) then asks the horse to trot off on level, firm ground. Usually the first step (after initial observation) in the lameness search. Often part of a pre-purchase exam.

How much is it? The cost is usually part of the vet's evaluation fee, so no additional charge.

Reliable? Somewhat. It can't catch everything, but will show the more obvious lamenesses. Some otherwise sound horses will "fail" a flex-test. Often followed by a vet's suggestion to x-ray a joint or joints in a leg.

welshcob
Sep. 1, 2004, 07:03 PM
Great idea!!

EPSM Muscle Biopsy

A muscle sample is taken and analysed for Equine Polysaccharide Storage Myopathy. This is a muscle disease, common across the breeds, that results in a horse not being able to utilize carbohydrates as energy in the muscle. A horse testing positive should be on a fat-supplemented diet. Horses with EPSM may show a variety of hind-end lameness, lack of energy, weight loss or muscle atrophy among other problems.

Muscle sample may be taken by your vet at the clinic or your facility. Labs that I know of are Oregon State University and Cornell, I'm sure there are many others.

Cost $200-400 -- I don't have my final bill yet..

From my reading only a very few horses would be in a gray area. They either show muscle distinctions or not, and the "treatment" is a low cost dietary adjustment.

A very good diagnostic tool for that unexplained lack of power, mysterious not-quite-right in the hind-end. I am very glad I did my horse. He may have more problems but I know I HAVE to provide a high fat diet if I want him to become stronger.

Lord Helpus
Sep. 2, 2004, 07:36 AM
Bea,

When I had a horse checked for ulcers, the endoscope was passed through a nostril, not the mouth.

And it can only see ulcers in the stomach, not the intestines, and so can miss many ulcers.

There is a generic version of Gastroguard out (it has been out for years, actually) and costs 1/2 the price of Gastroguard. Many trainers at racetracks use it and will testify that it works just fine -- The manufacturer of Gastroguard push the "FDA tested" part, but that is their deal to keep people spending double what they have to. God love 'em.

I paid $400 for the endoscope. I guess I got taken. But R&R is very expensive on many things. They have to pay the salaries of the big guys somehow. Damn. That's why this thread is so good. We can find out what others are paying for a test, and, within an acceptable range, what that test should cost.

Tiramit
Sep. 2, 2004, 07:44 AM
Endoscopy (nickname: scope or "scoping" a horse)

What's it for? Used to search out respiratory issues, ulcers, or other ailments in the horse's system.

What does it involve? Horse is tranquilized and a long fiber optic endoscope is eased through a nostril to the area of concern. The vet can then view the area through the endoscope and, if he or she likes, take a sample or flush fluids through a special tube. Horses who are in for gastric scoping should fast prior to the visit to ensure a clear view of the stomach. An example photo. (http://evrp.lsu.edu/summer2000/ehspPage08.asp)

What are the costs? Cost ranges from $150-400.

Dune
Sep. 2, 2004, 08:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tiramit:


Bone scan (Nuclear Scintigraphy)

What is it? A process of injecting a horse with a radioactive / dye combination shot that results in a color-coded photo displaying injuries to the skeleton. The body is color coded by "activity", thereby showing hot points where the horse has pain or discomfort. Different sections of the horse can be imaged - front half, back half, just the legs, etc.

What is done? The horse is injected iv with dye that attaches itself to all active bone cells and a radioactive compound. The drugs move through the blood stream and show skeletal damage and injury. Highly active bone will be more radioactive.

It's a slow procedure, taking up to a couple of hours for certain images. The horse will be slightly radioactive for up to 48 hours after the procedure.

Cost? Anywhere from $900 - 2500. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Just wanted to add that a bone scan also has a "soft tissue phase" that will show hot spots in areas like ligaments, suspensories, etc. not just the bones. This is good for diagnosing those hard to pinpoint lamenesses. Then normally what would happen is the vets would follow up with an ultrasound of the area in question. If during the bone phase, they find a hot spot, they would then follow up with an x-ray. If the x-ray doesn't show up with anything, but an injury or abnormality is still highly suspected you would then follow up (depending on the body part) with an MRI or CT. I'd love to hear more from someone who has done that. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif So the nuclear scan a tool that leads them in a particular direction, rather than something like an u/s or an x-ray that would tell you exactly (hopefully) what is going on. Regarding the "slightly radioactive" part, even though when humans have this test they are sent home right away, govermental laws usually require that the horse has to be kept at least overnight and the manure disposed off as hazardous waste. You are also not allowed to visit with your horsie until he/she is ready for pick-up. So be ready to say your goodbyes for 24-48 hours when you pull up to the clinic. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif

Tiramit
Sep. 2, 2004, 08:31 AM
Sure thing - I updated my previous post. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tiramit
Sep. 2, 2004, 09:07 AM
Allergy testing in horses:

What does it involve? The horse is tranquilized, and a series of shots each containing a different suspected allergen is injected under the skin of the neck (can be up to 75 shots). The shots are spaced out and skin reactions (bumps and swelling) are evaluated on a class scale by size. Readings are taken at 15 and 30 minute marks, then again at 4 hours and lastly at 24 hours from the initial injection time. Vets may also pull any scabs from the body and send them off for additional testing.

Based on the reactions, a serum is ordered with a maximum of 15 allergens in it (multiple serums can be given). The horse's response to the serum is also evaluated to ensure the appropriate mix of allergens. The horse may be re-tested after time.

What does it cost? The test alone is about $250 - 400.

Tiramit
Sep. 4, 2004, 08:01 PM
bumped up for the weekend crowd! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bea
Sep. 4, 2004, 08:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tiramit:
bumped up for the weekend crowd! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And cleaned. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Thanks to AmandaDVM I found out MRI will be available at Fairfield Equine in CT by end September. No pricing available yet. They have it available at New Bolton but not Cornell. Would love to hear if anyone has experience with this procedure.
Tiramit, I wonder if you'd be willing to do blocking? Another basic procedure like flexions it would be good to have here.

Madame Butterfly
Sep. 4, 2004, 08:21 PM
Lord Helpus, I read an article (forgive me, I can't remember where...) that soon, ulcers will be able to be detected either by testing the blood or urine .... the bottom line is that the process will be easier and less expensive.

Bea
Sep. 4, 2004, 08:53 PM
Really good point, MB. I read that too, here's the relevant bits.

"Diagnosing equine gastric ulcers might soon be a procedure that's short and sweet. Until recently, ulcer detection depended on using an endoscope to peer at the stomach lining. Now, a team of researchers at Texas A&M University, led by Noah Cohen, VMD, PhD, and J. B. Meddings of the University of Calgary's Gastrointestinal Research Group, says gastric ulcers can be identified and assessed for severity using a simple test for sucrose in the urine. This method has already proved reliable in diagnosing ulcers in humans, rats, and dogs.

With results this conclusive, and a testing protocol established, it should take very little time for veterinarians to incorporate urine testing--a much simpler, cheaper, and less invasive technique--into their diagnostic routine for gastric ulcers.

There's also potential to use sucrose levels in the blood of suspected ulcer cases to indicate the presence of ulcers. This convenient possibility is currently being explored by Texas A&M and Mississippi State University researchers.
Furthermore, researchers at the University of Adelaide in Australia are investigating the use of a sucrose breath test, which has successfully detected gastric ulcers in humans and dogs. Essentially, an individual who doesn't absorb sucrose properly should have detectably higher levels of hydrogen and methane in his exhaled breath. If this holds true for horses, it could provide another simple, efficient, and inexpensive way to diagnose gastric ulceration and, with any luck, help veterinarians catch ulcers faster and treat them earlier."

Tiramit
Sep. 7, 2004, 07:57 AM
A happy update - I sent a friend of mine this link and, after reading Welshcob's post, she is going to have an EPSM test performed on her horse. Welshcob's description fit my friend's horse, who has been to many different vets for tests and treatments but is still not quite right.

Thanks Welshcob! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DMK
Sep. 7, 2004, 08:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tiramit:
Allergy testing in horses:

What does it involve? The horse is tranquilized, and a series of shots each containing a different suspected allergen is injected under the skin of the neck <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But you can also get an allergy test done through a blood test - cost $150 (but this was several years ago, so it's probably more now).

Subsequent desensitization serum based on specific profile of horse: $70/vial. You use three vials over the course of 3 months (they are in gradually increasing concentration - you start out with frequent shots/low concentration and move up to less frequent administration/higher concentration) . Then maintenence vials last about 5-6 months. And you learn to give SQ shots in order to get through the first 3 months or you will go broke paying for vet visits!

LightRanch
Sep. 7, 2004, 12:36 PM
Dune, I had a nuclear scintigraphy done on a horse at Las Colinas in Irving, TX a few weeks ago. It was $850 for the whole body scan. The bone scan led us to the problem area and then we ultrasounded her ankle and definitively found the problem. This was after numerous other vets had flexed, injected, etc. all the wrong areas. Too bad we did not do the bone scan when I wanted to a few months ago. I might have a sound horse by now and be a couple of thousand $$ to the better.

asterix
Sep. 7, 2004, 05:00 PM
OK, I will give you a teaser -- going to get an MRI on my horse's front feet at the Dupont vet hospital in Leesburg VA on Thursday.
I have not had the heart to ask the cost (am only hoping my farrier was joking when he said 10k today) because it is really the only thing we haven't done yet, and I am at the end of the road with my horse's mystery lameness.

He has some variety of sore heels in front, and I won't bore you with the history, but we can't pinpoint what's wrong and can't seem to make it stay right for a sustained period of time.

So, off to MRI-land. I will report back on cost, time involved, and what we discovered after Thursday.

Bea
Sep. 7, 2004, 06:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asterix: OK, I will give you a teaser -- going to get an MRI on my horse's front feet at the Dupont vet hospital in Leesburg VA on Thursday. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ooooo.... good luck, take notes, and report back! On Thursday evening! And here's really hoping your farrier was joking. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

JB
Sep. 7, 2004, 07:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madame Butterfly:
Lord Helpus, I read an article (forgive me, I can't remember where...) that soon, ulcers will be able to be detected either by testing the blood or urine .... the bottom line is that the process will be easier and less expensive. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's here! I think it was The Horse where I read the article.

asterix
Sep. 9, 2004, 02:37 PM
MRI REPORT #1
(what it's for, how it's done, how much it costs. #2, "what we found out," tomorrow, when we've, um, found something out)

Spent this morning at the Dupont Equine Med Center in Leesburg VA getting an MRI on my horse's front feet.

The shoes are removed, and you, horse, vet, and tech all retire to a carefully shielded room which has a set of "stocks" (like a standing stall) in front of a huge magnet on a moveable track. The horse is sedated -- he must be able to stand absolutely still for long periods of time.
The foot is positioned very precisely, and then the magnet is moved to surround the foot (so if the magnet is a "U," the hoof is in the opening of the two branches).

For my horse with sore heels, we did maybe 6 series on each foot. Each series can take 4+ minutes to do, and if the horse moves even the tiniest amount (like a big sigh or a shiver of that leg), the series needs to be redone. Between this, re-upping sedation, and fiddling with the software, it takes AT BEST 2 hours to do 2 hooves. It took us closer to 4. They typically do both feet even if only one is a problem, so they can do comparative studies.

My vet clinic is reading the images this evening and will call me with initial results tonight.

You can see incredibly clear and detailed 360 degree images of the hoof -- everything in the hoof, including tendons and ligaments and fluid. They can do up to about the hock with this unit. They are planning to add a table so they can do general anesthesia and do other body parts -- apparently the one in Wash State can do this already. I wouldn't want general for the feet, though -- it was sort of painstaking, but half an hour later he was perky and grazing outside.

Total cost for procedure, all the hours of vet and tech time, and analysis = $1100.

Bea
Sep. 9, 2004, 02:45 PM
asterix, I was hoping you would check in soon, thank you for not forgetting about us. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Wow. Can't wait to hear what the vet says. So that's $1100 for two feet, right? Just want to be sure I read the number of feet correctly. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I have to say I imagined the cost could be even more. Not that I don't gulp at the sight of $1100. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

asterix
Sep. 9, 2004, 03:08 PM
Yup, 1100 bucks for 2 feet (but as I said, they said they usually do 2 feet)...

Not that I won't be feeling that 1100 bucks when the credit cards come due, but...
1. Having my farrier suggest it would cost 10k made this seem reasonable and
2. I know I've spent more than 1100 bucks in the 2 years we've had issues, even with insurance reimbursement, so if this allows us to see what is really going on and have a sensible plan, it'll be a bargain http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dune
Sep. 10, 2004, 11:05 AM
Just bumping this to see what the vets found, I turned down having this done and I'd like to see what we might've missed and how it helped you with a plan. Is there a post that tells us what you've gone through up to this point so I can get caught up?

Tiramit
Sep. 10, 2004, 01:52 PM
Interesting asterix!

Do you know if a similar process is used for body MRI's (and if that is possible)? You mentioned having to lay them on the table for that...?

Hope you find out what's bugging your horse!

ColoredGrey
Sep. 10, 2004, 08:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dune:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tiramit:


Bone scan (Nuclear Scintigraphy)

What is it? A process of injecting a horse with a radioactive / dye combination shot that results in a color-coded photo displaying injuries to the skeleton. The body is color coded by "activity", thereby showing hot points where the horse has pain or discomfort. Different sections of the horse can be imaged - front half, back half, just the legs, etc.

What is done? The horse is injected iv with dye that attaches itself to all active bone cells and a radioactive compound. The drugs move through the blood stream and show skeletal damage and injury. Highly active bone will be more radioactive.

It's a slow procedure, taking up to a couple of hours for certain images. The horse will be slightly radioactive for up to 48 hours after the procedure.

Cost? Anywhere from $900 - 2500. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Just wanted to add that a bone scan also has a "soft tissue phase" that will show hot spots in areas like ligaments, suspensories, etc. not _just_ the bones. This is good for diagnosing those hard to pinpoint lamenesses. Then normally what would happen is the vets would follow up with an ultrasound of the area in question. If during the bone phase, they find a hot spot, they would then follow up with an x-ray. If the x-ray doesn't show up with anything, but an injury or abnormality is still highly suspected you would then follow up (depending on the body part) with an MRI or CT. I'd love to hear more from someone who has done that. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif So the nuclear scan a tool that _leads_ them in a particular direction, rather than something like an u/s or an x-ray that would tell you exactly (hopefully) what is going on. Regarding the "slightly radioactive" part, even though when humans have this test they are sent home right away, govermental laws usually require that the horse has to be kept at least overnight and the manure disposed off as hazardous waste. You are also not allowed to visit with your horsie until he/she is ready for pick-up. So be ready to say your goodbyes for 24-48 hours when you pull up to the clinic. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

THOUGHT I WOULD SHARE MY STORY ON THIS TOPIC
I have had a scan done on my guy, even though we pretty much new where the problem might be( in the foot) we wanted to rule out anything that might be secondary.So off we went to the "specialist" The cost was close to $5,000. The scan it's self may be $2,500. but by the time the vet gets finished with adding up all the rest.....let's see he charged us for hospitalization,soundness exams (one everyday for 3 days) catheters,tranqulizer,the removal of the catheter, blocks,x-rays anti-inflammatory,antibiotic,bandage, and God only knows what else... Oh wait I forgot to mention $80.00 to fill out the report! We tallied up to $5,000.
Bottom line....Yes, he confrimed we have a problem in the foot...GEEZ thanks Doc.
The scan still was not able to tell us what it was. It is not a bone issue, his bones in the foot are fine. But I knew that before the scan. All the xrays taken by MY vet showed that. I was missed led to believe that the scan could give us an answer to exactly what the problem was. Instead it ruled out what it was not( bone)
If I had known this I would have saved my money and went in search of an MRI.Basically my advice is to any horse owner. If you are able to determine with your own vet the location of the lameness and feel that it maybe a soft tissue problem (especially in the foot) please research the advantages of both Scan and MRI.See what will help you get your answer.
I am amazed that with all the technology in the world today, we are limited when it comes to our horses. Thank goodness more and more medical centers are starting to change that.

asterix
Sep. 11, 2004, 06:41 AM
MRI Report #2 ("What we found")
I don't have the heart this morning to give you the full history of my horse, Dune, but he's had on and off heel soreness for 2 years, blocks sound there, has torn both medial collateral ligaments (R and L), came sound after 2 months off in a field, was sound for 9 months of eventing, still living in a field, and came up lame again on LF this summer.

What we found: he has a large tear of his DDFT, down in the heel. This injury is positioned in such a way that there is NO other way to diagnose it than an MRI. Because of this, there isn't an enormous history of treating these injuries -- not very many have been diagnosed yet -- so his prognosis is uncertain. Dr. Allen was not, however, optimistic that he could return to eventing. It is possible, but it's a big tear and tendons are not great things to injure to begin with. Most likely he will be a light hacking/light ringwork horse. He can be ridden now and he can continue to live in his beloved field.
If the horse is sound, you treat this injury with targeted shockwave. If he's not sound, you inject the tendon sheath. The only way to re-evaluate how well the tendon is healing is to do another MRI.

So this is a good example of what an MRI can tell you -- if you know the problem is in the foot, this is a very good way to see exactly what is going on.

As for doing other body parts, Tiramit, it's a question of placing -- right now the magnet can move up to about hock level (or above the knee in front), but if they had a table they could knock the horse out completely and do any part of the body, I think. Washington State can do this now, not sure about other MRI locations.

LightRanch
Sep. 14, 2004, 06:47 AM
ColoredGrey, that bill for the bone scan is astronomical! My horse had bone scan done a month ago at Las Colinas in TX. She was there for two nights, had the bone scan done, an ultrasound and multiple x-rays of the fetlock after discovering the problem area, two rounds of perfusion therapy on her fetlock and a box of Adequan for a little over $1400.

ColoredGrey
Sep. 14, 2004, 08:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LightRanch:
ColoredGrey, that bill for the bone scan is astronomical! My horse had bone scan done a month ago at Las Colinas in TX. She was there for two nights, had the bone scan done, an ultrasound and _multiple_ x-rays of the fetlock after discovering the problem area, two rounds of perfusion therapy on her fetlock and a box of Adequan for a little over $1400. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LightRanch,Yes it was costly. I am also learning from other people that it should not have been. I guess in my area you could get away with charging so much. It is unfortunate. I will be more aware in the future to have the total bill told to me up front. But regardless, I would never base my decision strictly on how much it would cost to help my horse. (I would sell my soul if it would help him be well)It is just sad that they can take advantage of you.
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Dune
Sep. 15, 2004, 10:47 AM
This is weird, some of the posts are missing...what happened? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Bea
Sep. 15, 2004, 11:20 AM
Dune, are you thinking of the MRI thread? By the way, if you're interested in % of horses who are diagnosed with problems with MRI, there's a good article on thehorse.com that gives numbers, doesn't address that aspect just gives numbers. Or I could link you to a study on the ivis website that does the same thing. Mentioned numbers but doesn't discuss follow-up.

Dune
Sep. 16, 2004, 08:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bea:
Dune, are you thinking of the MRI thread? By the way, if you're interested in % of horses who are diagnosed with problems with MRI, there's a good article on thehorse.com that gives numbers, doesn't address that aspect just gives numbers. Or I could link you to a study on the ivis website that does the same thing. Mentioned numbers but doesn't discuss follow-up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, Bea, I got confused...duh. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif Anyway, if you could link me to one or both sites, that would be great! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bea
Sep. 16, 2004, 10:52 AM
Dune, here's two links. The first is a good recent article from the AAEP's The Horse. And the second is, I believe, the actual study mentioned in the article. It takes some crunching of numbers but it seems to me Group One in the study had 35 lame horses, MRI didn't pick up any abnormalities in 5 of them. Let me know if you agree with my arithmetic, or not. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And let me know if you can't access the links, they might be subscriber only.

http://www.thehorse.com/viewarticle.aspx?ID=2295
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/AAEP/2003/mair/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1