Color question: Throwing all duns, buckskins or palominos.

[pwynnnorman]

A friend of mine sold a stallion by whom she has now gotten 4 buckskins, 1 palomino, and 1 red dun. I've seen his pictures, but they weren't really sharp, so it's hard to tell what color he is himself, but she calls him buckskin.

Does that make sense? Is is possible to have a homozygous buckskin? Or could he be some other color? I've never heard of homozygous buckskin (not that my ignorance really means anything!).

[amastrike]

A homozygous buckskin would be a perlino. He could be a buckskin and a dun and has just happened to pass on the cream and dun genes.

[pwynnnorman]

Is that an either/or--or can he be perlino, but just look kinda buckskin? I forget, what's the eye color on a perlino? I can't remember seeing anything different about his eyes in his pictures, but then again, I can't remember his pictures at all, really. It's just that, when I DID see him in pictures, I sure would have remembered if he looked perlino. So, would you say what he's thrown means he IS a perlino--or that his genes just somehow get in perlino-like results.

My friend is not at all experienced. The genetics of his color isn't what she sold him on, and I know she keeps in touch with the buyers, who are equally inexperienced. I think they'd all appreciate more information.

[whbar158]

It also depends on what he is being bred to. He is likely just a Buckskin and may or may not have the dun gene, depending on what he has been bred to. I highly doubt he is a double dilute those stand out pretty well.

[amastrike]

Perlino is two copies of the cream gene on a bay base. Bay + 1 cream = Bucksin; Bay + 2 cream = Perlino. The only way he could be throwing 100% color is if he's perlino, but that's quite distinctive.. the body is sort of a cream color, and the legs, mane, and tail are a diluted reddish color. Chances are he's a plain ol' buckskin who happens to be passing on the cream gene. There's a 50% chance of any of his offspring having the gene.

[rideagoldenpony]

It could just be the luck of the draw. That isn't that many foals, and she could end up with all bay or all chestnut or all non dilutes next year.

Having a palomino stallion means that I've paid a bit more attention to the percentages on colors, and while sometimes the dilutes get way ahead in numbers, eventually it all evens out again.

You would know if the stallion was perlino -- he would look a lot like a cremello, which as you know is really distinctive.

Also, bucksin and dun are two different colors, though I think are occasionally combined. But it is more than likely that the red dun color came from the mare. And of course the mares may also be contributing to the deluge of dilutes, depending on what colors they are.

[Cindy's Warmbloods]

If he carries both genes I believe he would be a dunskin would he not? He would carry both the dun and dilute/cream gene. There is still a chance he can throw "non colored" foals but with two genes to pass down there is good odds he will pass one of them though I am not sure the %. Would it be 75%? The same as if the mare and stallion both carried one? Anyone know?

[pintopiaffe]

Daydream Believer's stallion Cayuse Gold is a Dunskin (Dun & Buckskin) and has had a HIGH % of throwing colour. That's what this guy sounds like to me--the Red Dun is the clue. No cream there, just dun.

I don't know for sure, but can't a horse be homozygous for the dun gene? It is easy to confuse light dun with buckskin visually sometimes.

And yes, the chance of some colour is 75%. So only 25% EACH BREEDING of getting non-dilute/non-dun, and even that is going to change depending on Mum too. ;)

[Tiki]

If he were dun, I could easily believe a newbie thinking buckskin. Many people mix them up - or just call them by names with which they are familian, but unless he carries chestnut and matched up with a chesnut mare with a creme gene, it is impossible for him to sire palomino.

Who knows if it really was a red dun HE sired, or if the red dun came from the mare. There's just not enough information here to determine what he is.

[TrueColours]

She'd KNOW if he was perlino!!! :lol:

His eyes would not be dark but would be ice blue (exactly the same as with a cremello)

I vote for dunskin as well ... :)

[JB]

Is that an either/or--or can he be perlino, but just look kinda buckskin?
One would never confuse a buckskin, no matter how light, with a perlino. Buckskins, even the light creamy "buttermilk" shade, are much lighter than perlinos and, unless there is also something else going on, will still have black points. Perlinos black is diluted to an apricot color.


I forget, what's the eye color on a perlino? I can't remember seeing anything different about his eyes in his pictures, but then again, I can't remember his pictures at all, really.
Double dilutesl have blue(ish) eyes. It's a different blue from a non-double dilute who has Splash-blue eyes.

It's just that, when I DID see him in pictures, I sure would have remembered if he looked perlino. So, would you say what he's thrown means he IS a perlino--or that his genes just somehow get in perlino-like results.

What breed is this?

What color were the mares he produced these dilute foals with?

the number of foals listed is not really statistically significant, so it is entirely possible that the roll of the dice had him throwing his single dilute gene each of those times.

[pwynnnorman]

Having a palomino stallion means that I've paid a bit more attention to the percentages on colors, and while sometimes the dilutes get way ahead in numbers, eventually it all evens out again.


By that, you mean it ends up, if your sample or population size is large enough, being 50-50? Or 75-25 if he's that "double dilute" someone mentioned?

And I never even heard of the term "dunskin" before! I like it. I'll pass all of this info along to her. (I think, IIRC, that he's a Quarter horse cross or something. I don't think he's registered, but I could be wrong.)

[rideagoldenpony]

By that, you mean it ends up, if your sample or population size is large enough, being 50-50?

Yes, that's exactly what I mean.

The sample size so far is too small to mean anything other than he carries a dilute gene. Next year they could all be non dilutes.

[nightsong]

The sample size so far is too small to mean anything other than he carries a dilute gene. Next year they could all be non dilutes.

The single dilute gene in each case could have come from the mares, so we don't even know THAT.

[JB]

By that, you mean it ends up, if your sample or population size is large enough, being 50-50?
Yes. When there is 1 "on" gene, and one "off" gene, such as the case with a single dilute, ie buckskin or palomino, there is either the "on" version to pass on (Cr in this case), or the "off" version to pass (cr in this case). In any given breeding it's a 50/50 shot which one. With smaller numbers, that can be very off-balance, all the way to 100/0%, wtih any ratio down to 0/100%. At the number of samples increases, it comes closer to 50/50, but any given run of foals may be skewed.

Mares never have enough foals to be statistically significant when it comes to using plain numbers to determine what she might or might not carry. This means she could look black, everyone thinks she's black, she has 15 foals who are all normal colors, and bam, that 16th foal from a genetically tested regular bay stallion is a buckskin. Even though 15 foals in a row were non-dilute, it's not enough to know she is as well.

Or 75-25 if he's that "double dilute" someone mentioned?
Well, if it's a double dilute, the foals will ALWAYS get a dilute gene from that parent - 100%. anything beyond that is up to the other parent.

And I never even heard of the term "dunskin" before! I like it. I'll pass all of this info along to her. (I think, IIRC, that he's a Quarter horse cross or something. I don't think he's registered, but I could be wrong.)
Dun + cream on bay = dunskin :)

Likewise, dun on cream on chestnut = dunalino :)

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

Does he have black points? Dorsal stripe? Zebra stripes on legs? Here are some basic descriptions.

My buckskin tobiano filly is by a perlino tobiano stallion out of a solid bay mare. She has 2 ice blue eyes. Perlino's have more of a amber-blue colored eye.

Buckskin
body color yellowish or gold, mane and tail black; black on lower legs; lacks primitive markings

Dun
diluted body color of yellowish or gold; mane and tail are black or brown; has dorsal stripe and usually zebra stripes on legs and transverse stripe over withers.

Perlino
double dilute of bay/brown resulting in body color of cream or off-white, lower legs, mane and tail light rust or chocolate shade; skin is pinkish or gray; eyes are blue or amber; the coat has enough yellow hue to allow white markings to be visible.