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View Full Version : Natural Horsemanship at its best - WTH!



ACMEeventing
Mar. 4, 2010, 11:27 PM
Cross-post from Off-Course. Be warned, this poor horse has obviously not watched the video.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80925308

JumpingBug
Mar. 4, 2010, 11:42 PM
I am a fan of being able to move a horses feet from the ground and on top of them. There is a nicer way to be doing what they ARE POORLY ATTEMPTING.

Also no PP fan but this is not something I am familiar seeing and I have had some clients who were into the methodology and went to his camp and I have not seen that degree of abuse. MOST owners I know would not tolerate that abuse and would have stopped the lady. Poor one eyed horse.

IN a nut shell you can not judge one video and blame natural horsemanship, there are some beautiful harmonious NH out there as well. I have seen horrific H/J, eventing and dressage trainers as well, put that crack pot to shame, so your title of this thread is off base IMO But if your attempting to start a "train wreck" Natural Horsemanship, Pat P or rollkur is a good start. :-)

Dramapony_misty
Mar. 5, 2010, 12:40 AM
Yes, I have seen some really great (sensible and useful) things done with pre-"natural horsemanship" methods (read old school great horsemen like Bryan Neubert, Buck Brannaman) but this is awful.

Did anyone notice the the horse is missing an eye? Of course his head is going to be moving all around. Horses are prey animals so they need to be aware of their surroundings at all times. By god!

And those people who are legit and sensible "natural horsemanship" trainers should try to stop this sort of thing from tarnishing their methods, like dressage riders are fighting rollkur.

K.
Mar. 5, 2010, 02:49 AM
I couldn't watch more then 15seconds.. wth is right! maybe im just lost on it.. but i couldn't figure out what she was trying to achieve.

Frizzle
Mar. 5, 2010, 03:31 AM
This is definitely not horsemanship, "natural" or otherwise -- it's abuse, plain and simple.

Cody
Mar. 5, 2010, 05:51 AM
I didn't watch it all the way thru either. However, I do know a little about NH and I didn't have to watch more than a couple of min to know that person knew squat about it. I loved at the very beginning she took over. But she didn't truly know how to work her halter and she allowed the horse to constantly get in 'her space.'

There are good NH trainers out there,I'm another one that's not truly a parelli fan, but I truly love Buck Brananman, Curt Page, Ray Hunt and the other true greats of that manner of training. If I ever won the lottery, I would ask Buck if I could go to school with him.

Cody

Foxhall
Mar. 5, 2010, 08:14 AM
I went to the O'Connor camp in December, and part of it was on very basic natural horsemanship. So I have a little bit of understanding of what it should look like. I could see what the woman in the video was trying to do, such as shaking the leadrope and increasing the pressure until the horse yields, however not yanking its head to the side every couple seconds. Then when you bend your head and lean toward their haunches, horses familiar w/ NH will stop and turn to face you, this is called a hind end yield. Watching David do this with his horses is truly amazing. He tilts his head ever so slightly and the horse almost immediately turns to face him. I am not a parelli advocate by any means but there is something to be learned by every discipline involving horses, and parelli is no exception. The basics of the natural horsemanship will increase your horse's focus on you and your body language, and will make him/her more attentive. As David says, "those are the basics, once you've mastered them, everything beyond that is just a circus trick."

ACMEeventing
Mar. 5, 2010, 08:52 AM
I am a fan of being able to move a horses feet from the ground and on top of them. There is a nicer way to be doing what they ARE POORLY ATTEMPTING.

Also no PP fan but this is not something I am familiar seeing and I have had some clients who were into the methodology and went to his camp and I have not seen that degree of abuse. MOST owners I know would not tolerate that abuse and would have stopped the lady. Poor one eyed horse.

IN a nut shell you can not judge one video and blame natural horsemanship, there are some beautiful harmonious NH out there as well. I have seen horrific H/J, eventing and dressage trainers as well, put that crack pot to shame, so your title of this thread is off base IMO But if your attempting to start a "train wreck" Natural Horsemanship, Pat P or rollkur is a good start. :-)

Not trying to start a train wreck, per se. Just expressing incredible shock at what people will allow themselves (or their horses) to be subjected to based on someone's claim to be a subject matter expert.

Wearing a lab coat doesn't make you a medical expert and carrying an orange stick doesn't make you a horse whisperer.

I don't know who the lady in the clip is, the other post suggested it was LP herself. Seems to me the only good advice she gave was for the owner to get out of the way (shaking head).

eyetallion stallion
Mar. 5, 2010, 10:48 AM
OMG! Your comments are all priceless! That "lady" who "knows nothing" is none other than LINDA PARELLI, herself!

Really.

Alianna
Mar. 5, 2010, 11:22 AM
Worthless and abusive. Coolaid drinking cult creeps. No business around a living animal. Period.

cyberbay
Mar. 5, 2010, 11:38 AM
Natural horsemanship done well is simply good horsemanship, with a marketing label on it. You can solve 90% of your horse problems with good horsemanship (which takes experience, and can't be learned in a weekend with a carrot stick); the remaining 10% of problems can be solved by using the techniques of the greats.

It's kind of offensive to act as if good horsemanship just got discovered, and that attentive, intuitive, thinking people around horses who have developed many of the same techniques thanks to their brains get lumped in with a marketing guru. Even in my wildest dreams, I would not try to make a buck off of manipulating people with a parelli-like product, because I just care about the horse too much to have him be caught in the middle of this NH charade going on so much these days.

The greats like Ray Hunt, et al are great b/c they (have learned to) put the horse first, and take hints from the horse. The exploiters of NH put their egos first. They're the Martha Stewarts of the horse world -- making a major buck off of the obvious.

cyberbay
Mar. 5, 2010, 11:46 AM
Natural horsemanship done well is simply good horsemanship, with a marketing label on it. You can solve 90% of your horse problems with good horsemanship (which takes experience, and can't be learned in a weekend with a carrot stick); the remaining 10% of problems can be solved by using the techniques of the greats.

It's kind of offensive to act as if good horsemanship just got discovered, and that attentive, intuitive, thinking people around horses who have developed many of the same techniques thanks to their brains get lumped in with a marketing guru. Even in my wildest dreams, I would not try to make a buck off of manipulating people with a parelli-like product, because I just care about the horse too much to have him be caught in the middle of this NH charade going on so much these days.

The greats like Ray Hunt, et al are great b/c they (have learned to) put the horse first, and take hints from the horse. The exploiters of NH put their egos first. They're the Martha Stewarts of the horse world -- making a major buck off of the obvious.

Ritazza
Mar. 5, 2010, 03:03 PM
OMG! Your comments are all priceless! That "lady" who "knows nothing" is none other than LINDA PARELLI, herself!

Really.


Seriously? You're kidding.
New title for film: "How to make your horse incredibly head-shy."
Totally cool with natural horsemanship if that's your thing and you're good at it. Totally not cool with whatever this is... and bad horsemanship of all kinds, natural or not.

caffeinated
Mar. 5, 2010, 03:09 PM
Seriously? You're kidding.

nah, it's Linda Parelli, and from one of their Level 1 training videos.

Ritazza
Mar. 5, 2010, 03:23 PM
nah, it's Linda Parelli, and from one of their Level 1 training videos.

........... wow.

Unprovoked92
Mar. 5, 2010, 03:25 PM
Its Natural Horsemanship....its very natural to lose your temper when you don't have the correct skills or knowledge to teach/train a horse properly

And then they wonder why more people refuse to drink the kool-aid.....

La Chasse
Mar. 5, 2010, 03:34 PM
This was nauseating- I didn't read the threads , so i was trying to figure WhoTF she was and WTF she was doing with that poor horse..... maybe she should have a halter put on her, along with a pirate patch, and then have the lead rope shaken, snapped at her, spun around, and smacked in the face.

Alianna
Mar. 5, 2010, 03:46 PM
I see absolutely NO horsemanship whatsoever there or ever with those jokes...natural or otherwise...I see good marketing and a good business ripping off the uninformed and ignorant.

MassageLady
Mar. 5, 2010, 06:38 PM
I do know a little about NH and I didn't have to watch more than a couple of min to know that person knew squat about it.
Sorry...it IS Linda parelli-and I've heard that they actually had this video as part of their level 1 training package!:eek:
I've seen this woman on her show, taking horses from people and jerking them around-whipping that rope as hard as she could, in order for that clip to hit the horses chin--this is why I cannot stand Parelli! My horses will back, when asked! No need to do this to them--if I'm teaching them, a light 'swish' on their leg with a dressage whip will get them to back.:winkgrin: and you build from there.

enjoytheride
Mar. 5, 2010, 06:44 PM
The people who are defending her are saying the horse was dangerous. I saw a really really confused horse who may have been a pit pushy originally but was mostly just confused.

I believe a new and novice horse owner bought him straight off the track and had lots of problems with him spooking and dumping her.

Kementari
Mar. 5, 2010, 07:33 PM
If that horse had been dangerous, LP would be dead. (Or at least seriously injured.) A dangerous horse would have lashed out in some way, as would many a non-dangerous horse. THAT horse may be green, but I'd take him in my barn any day. Any horse who puts up with that crap without losing it has a good head.

When I was a teen, my (then-green) OTTB decided he didn't want to get back into the horse trailer after a schooling day. (In his defense, the mare he was riding with had spent the entire trip to the show grounds trying to kick him, and only failing because the trailer had a full center divider. I probably wouldn't have wanted to get back on, either.) My team coach - who was not my regular instructor but still someone in a position of authority - took the lead from me and proceeded to apply the same sort of "aids" that LP is using in that video (though with a different goal, obviously). While I knew it was wrong, I was also young and intimidated by someone far more experienced than I. After about ten minutes, my calm, level-headed horse completely lost it and started rearing and striking and refusing to get anywhere NEAR the trailer. I finally had the guts to take him away from her and call someone (my real instructor) with a bigger trailer sans kicking mare - which he got into relatively quickly once I had the support of another adult to make the coach back off.

Two points: 1) my horse is a SAINT (ask anyone who knows him), and he wouldn't put up with that crap, so the horse in the video is not only not dangerous but waaay beyond saint; and 2) I regret to this day (15 years later) that I didn't take the leadline back from my coach sooner - that sort of behaviour is NOT "horsemanship," natural or otherwise, and achieves nothing positive.

Oh, and my horse now self-loads into any trailer you point him at, which of course has nothing to do with that early "training"; horses can be started out badly and still end up well in the end, so at least there's hope for this poor guy! :yes:

ACMEeventing
Mar. 5, 2010, 07:34 PM
Natural horsemanship done well is simply good horsemanship, with a marketing label on it. You can solve 90% of your horse problems with good horsemanship (which takes experience, and can't be learned in a weekend with a carrot stick); the remaining 10% of problems can be solved by using the techniques of the greats.

It's kind of offensive to act as if good horsemanship just got discovered, and that attentive, intuitive, thinking people around horses who have developed many of the same techniques thanks to their brains get lumped in with a marketing guru. Even in my wildest dreams, I would not try to make a buck off of manipulating people with a parelli-like product, because I just care about the horse too much to have him be caught in the middle of this NH charade going on so much these days.

.

Amen.

And is it just me, or is the horse blind on the left?

3dazey
Mar. 5, 2010, 07:49 PM
You are kidding me. They SOLD videos that contained this episode? And people BOUGHT them? And thought they were GOOD?

Holy sheet.

bambam
Mar. 5, 2010, 08:05 PM
This is what the Parellis are out there teaching their minions?! seriously?
I just figured it was some clueless person mis-applying the orange stick lessons they took
where is the fruitbat?!

TimelyImpulse
Mar. 5, 2010, 09:47 PM
That lovely beast is *missing* that eye.

Alianna
Mar. 6, 2010, 11:12 AM
Poor horse probably got it eye knocked out with some a** hole with a carrot stick earlier in its "training"..

pday09
Mar. 6, 2010, 12:09 PM
God, props to that horse, it can take a joke. Poor thing. :-(

ETA: is she patting the horse at the end or hitting him in the face?

Brooke
Mar. 6, 2010, 12:27 PM
I couldn't watch the whole thing, so I don't really know how it turned out or whether she actually got what she wanted or not. But I do know that the old addage about 'insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result" (paraphrased) explains this dismal attempt at 'training'. If at first you don't succeed, try something different. What we are viewing isn't horsemanship of any kind - it's stubbornly and blindly following your script and everything else be damnded. To me a horseman is someone who takes into account the individuality of horses, reads them, and can change the way s/he approaches a problem. And this ain't it.

MassageLady
Mar. 6, 2010, 01:36 PM
It looks like this horse was at one of their 'camps' that they put on---if you look in the background, there are many other horses being 'naturally tortured' too.:cry:
This IS Linda Parelli--and it's sad that she has NO CLUE that this horse is trying his best-starting out-to lunge around her, which is what she is ASKING him to do!! Then, whipping him only makes him go faster-when she's wanting him to turn, which in the REAL WORLD a horse would never do on the lunge, because it is a sign of disrespect and challenge.:lol: Then the poor thing actually tries to walk with her, and ends up getting smacked in the face!
Please tell me...how in the world can any of their 'followers' watch this and not say to them-I thought we trained without 'Fear, Pain and Intimidation'---that's ALL you see here!! And absolutely NO 'Love Language and Leadership' are anywhere near 'crazy linda parelli'. From now on will be aka CLP.:D

Mach Two
Mar. 6, 2010, 02:32 PM
yep...pitiful, isn't it?
I have friends who live clse by...the whole thing has become quite a zoo...but I have known these things about PP for 35 years...an idiot, an abuser, a cheat.
LP is no better.
A horse with a "fight back" bone in it's body would have cleaned her clock...maybe that is what she deserves.

ACMEeventing
Mar. 6, 2010, 07:20 PM
Poor horse probably got it eye knocked out with some a** hole with a carrot stick earlier in its "training"..

Not sure if I should laugh at this or just shake my head. You might actually be right.

This whole thing reminds me of when you see footage of a bullfight, and the bull gets in a good one on the matador. I always find myself rooting for the bull . . .

ThirdCharm
Mar. 6, 2010, 09:14 PM
Just... wow. Astonishing what people will buy if you put a nice wrapper on it.

I hate fixing NH'd horses. Poor buggers have NO clue. We watched one guy who would lean toward the horse's hindquarters and expect the horse to move away, he kept telling the audience he was "pinning his ears back" at the horse (now that I would have paid to see!!) and the horse just looked at him until he whipped the lead at it. Of course after 30 minutes of this nonsense the horse moved away when he leaned at it, and he claimed it was responding naturally to his "predatory stance". UMMM, in thirty minutes I could have had that horse moving sideways when I whistled the Star Spangled Banner if everytime I whistled I whipped a leadrope at its butt!!! It's called CONDITIONING you moron!!

Jennifer

yellowbritches
Mar. 7, 2010, 07:55 AM
I watched a little bit of it and thought it might be her. Jesus.

Anyway, I utilize some of these techniques (well, not THESE techniques, but common sense "natural" horsemanship type things) on a lot of our horses and they help, sometimes quite a bit. However, one thing I have learned over the years watching and reading all different "schools" of this stuff (other than the fact that they are all the same, just packaged differently) is that the key is consistency and calmness (duh, I know). LP isn't showing EITHER of these things.

If you want to see some good "NH" type work (though, I don't think he calls it that) and you have a Horse Hero account (which is worth getting if you don't), watch some of the videos with Richard Maxwell. He seems very, very practical and while he is definitely "packaged" well, you don't get the feeling of a big dog and pony show that you get with a lot of the other NH people.

AppJumpr08
Mar. 7, 2010, 08:13 AM
The people who are defending her are saying the horse was dangerous. I saw a really really confused horse who may have been a pit pushy originally but was mostly just confused.


This.


And Linda was doing NOTHING to help the horse understand what she was asking him to do.
No real releases in pressure to reward him for getting it right, and the constant whipping and shanking was just cruel.

I'm learning some Clint Anderson techniques, and the trainer who is teaching me is very fair, doesn't get angry when the horse doesn't get it, and EXPLAINS to the horse what he's asking them to do. I have never seen a fiasco like this one when he's working a horse.

It just falls in line with what I've seen PP and LP doing with horses when they didn't know anyone was watching.... I'm sure you can only imagine, given she knew this was being recorded!!

sandyliz
Mar. 7, 2010, 09:17 AM
This was in a former level 1 course. The goal was to have the horse stand still with full attention on LP, or owner- whoever was at the other end of the rope.

alicen
Mar. 7, 2010, 09:34 AM
ThirdCharm wrote: "Of course after 30 minutes of this nonsense the horse moved away when he leaned at it, and he claimed it was responding naturally to his "predatory stance". "

Why would anyone want to be considered predatory by their horses ?

kookicat
Mar. 7, 2010, 10:21 AM
OMG! Your comments are all priceless! That "lady" who "knows nothing" is none other than LINDA PARELLI, herself!

Really.

I don't care if she's the Queen Mother herself, it's still abuse at worst and bad horsemanship at best. :dead:

I don't understand how you can defend this. :confused:

Thomas_1
Mar. 7, 2010, 10:24 AM
I can't stand to watch Linda Parelli doing stuff with horses.

The woman doesn't have a clue and just irritates the heck of of horses... and me!

HeyJealousy
Mar. 7, 2010, 10:41 AM
Last night a boarder was in the paddock with her horse for oh, about two hours...doing the "crouch", or whatever it's called...quite possibly the funniest thing I've ever seen.

brightskyfarm
Mar. 7, 2010, 11:43 AM
There is also the old quote from Mark Twain: "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no sense being a damn fool about it."

I think this says it all .... It only took 5 seconds to realize I wasn't watching a horseman.... or even a kind person. I personally have worked with many ottb's that can learn to lunge within minutes ...using proper, tried and proven (old)
technique.......there is no magic to it all, just requires a person of compassion and horse-sense.... oh... a horseman.

This video substantiates all the accusations and negative response to natual horsemanship training methods.

evntr06
Mar. 7, 2010, 11:54 AM
This is actually a really bad example of what we call "Natural Horsemanship", although to be honest I don't really like that term, or what it become to represent. I guess as in every avenue of horse business, anyone can put up a sign that they are a trainer, and that's why you get those fruitcakes thinking they are "training". I never been a Parelli fan, but it is certainly hard to believe that someone can get so far with a big marketing machine without substance. Of course, the video speaks for itself.

I have studied some natural horsemanship trainers, and seen few presentations/clinics, and those that I have seen, employ the basic principals of horsemanship and are kind to the horse. In fact, the basics of how the horse learns, pressure-release principal and consistent conditioning were first explained to me by this type of trainer, and not by years of riding in local lesson/hunter/jumper barns. Apparently there horses know all the cues from birth. :)

So, I think there is definitely certain value in NH, even if some of the trainers are marketing machines and dog-and-pony shows. Public just can't buy everything everyone sells just because they sell it. People just have to be really discerning to whom they trust.

Which is easier said then done. I am lucky to have ended up with a really knowledgeble trainer barn, but I was at one point pretty clueless amature, and could have easily bought whatever coolaid I was given if it was presented with authority and marketing behind it.

Fancy That
Mar. 7, 2010, 01:02 PM
I didn't watch it all the way thru either. However, I do know a little about NH and I didn't have to watch more than a couple of min to know that person knew squat about it. I loved at the very beginning she took over. But she didn't truly know how to work her halter and she allowed the horse to constantly get in 'her space.'

There are good NH trainers out there,I'm another one that's not truly a parelli fan, but I truly love Buck Brananman, Curt Page, Ray Hunt and the other true greats of that manner of training. If I ever won the lottery, I would ask Buck if I could go to school with him.

Cody

AGREE. This was horrible. There IS such a thing as "good horsemanship" and this is NOT THAT.

Think: Ray Hunt, Tom Dorrance, Buck Brannaman, Richard Winters, Bryan Neubert, Curt Page and more.

I love Trudy Exton and Terry Church, who have incorporated those GOOD horsemanship foundations into the H/J & Dressage disciplines.

I start my horses in a roundpen and do the ground work, etc. I practice good-horsemanship (never have been a Parelli person)

It's a shame that this is what people think of when one uses a rope halter, 12 foot lead and does ground work. UGH

Kementari
Mar. 7, 2010, 01:20 PM
This was in a former level 1 course. The goal was to have the horse stand still with full attention on LP, or owner- whoever was at the other end of the rope.

I couldn't help but wonder why it was that when the horse DID look at her (and she was close enough to reach him), she hit him in the face. :confused: The whole video was ridiculous, but that part was the worst!

ACMEeventing
Mar. 7, 2010, 10:14 PM
Last night a boarder was in the paddock with her horse for oh, about two hours...doing the "crouch", or whatever it's called...quite possibly the funniest thing I've ever seen.

Was it in super slow-mo? Like the matrix?

Kanga
Mar. 8, 2010, 01:12 PM
Like most of you on this thread we all HATE what LP is doing to this horse and all know this is not proper training!

However, there are still MANY out there that are falling for this BS, when are those people going to smarten up?

When you have people like the O'Connors and everyone that they teach living by this method as if it were the bible we have a problem. I personally saw long ago when the PP circus was brought into eventing the downslide of our sport began.

I trained with someone for a bit that worked extensively with the O'Connors and this was there one and only method. Through this type of training both my horses went lame. The first time it happened, my horse had started to have a bit of arthritis so I put it off on that. At that time my vet said, please watch out for this type of training it is not good. My second horse this happened to was as sound as they come with perfect x-rays and never a lameness issue. This time I listened to my vet as I should have done the first time.

I went to this trainer and asked if there were other ways we could work my horse, the answer was this is what we do and "No"!!

I've said this before and I will say it again. The problem is there are too many (trainers & riders) out there that are following a "fad". Trainers that are constantly changing their values & methods for training horses and following something that is suppose to be "hot" at the time should be avoided if you really want to learn how to ride properly.

Really guys....It's time to stop drinking this cool-aid and get back to true horsemanship and a work ethic when it comes down to riding.

INoMrEd
Mar. 9, 2010, 02:59 PM
nah, it's Linda Parelli, and from one of their Level 1 training videos.

I hope you are joking about that. Amazing that people would pay to see this when I could only stand to watch about 15 seconds of it for free.

Erin Pittman
Mar. 9, 2010, 04:11 PM
I thought the O'Connors severed their ties with Parelli?

Livetoride19
Mar. 9, 2010, 05:00 PM
That was hard to watch. She looks like a child having a tantrum throwing her arms in the air. Those are not horse people. LP is awful.

Falconfree
Mar. 9, 2010, 08:39 PM
I am amazed that that is LP. I have never been a Parelli fan, but I never expected to see a clip like that!

The first comment on the site bugged me. "I hate horsemanship - for this reason!" Seriously? This isn't horsemanship.

Flying Hippotamus
Mar. 10, 2010, 11:06 PM
There is a girl at out barn who has an obvious disconnect with her horse. She has all the NH equipment and it ain't helping. After 10 minutes of watching I went out and caught her horse for her (actually just walked over to him). I've seen her back him through doors because he won't go in for her. He tried that with me when he first came and I popped his butt with the lead rope and he just kinda realized I didn't take that crap and hasn't done it to me again. I also have seen this horse kick at her. Yeah he thinks he's boss. Oh well, I haven't seen her do the NH stuff. But if I were her I would just ride his butt, seems to me all he wants is a job.

Crzy4Mares
Mar. 10, 2010, 11:20 PM
If you ever want an entertaining evening, sit down with a horsey friend and watch the Parelli videos. Have a few drinks and imagine yourself as a complete beginner doing the stuff in the videos with your new horse... Surprised more people haven't been killed by their horses imitating the Parelli training methods...

We got through about 2 or 3 videos and had to shut it off... It was just too hard to watch...

lstevenson
Mar. 10, 2010, 11:41 PM
If you ever want an entertaining evening, sit down with a horsey friend and watch the Parelli videos.



I agree. It's quite entertaining. :winkgrin: I've only seen a few videos, but one was where PP was riding a horse with no bridle but carrying a "carrot stick" in each hand. He was making the horse canter a figure 8 and jump a barrel jump in the middle. And to turn the horse he whacked him in the face with the outside carrot stick. I'm sure the horse thought it was a really fun "game". Why in the world would that be preferable to a bridle??

I just can't believe people buy into that BS!!

A3dayeventer2009
Mar. 11, 2010, 12:02 AM
I couldn't even watch the whole thing. I've worked with a few really screwed up horses (screwed up from previously doing this kind of un-natural "natural" horsemanship). There truly is no need to ever touch a horse with more than a light tap and you usually can get your point across with body language, EVEN in the beginning. This seriously is disgusting, I don't care who she is, that is abuse.

Coppers mom
Mar. 11, 2010, 12:02 AM
I thought the O'Connors severed their ties with Parelli?
I think they stepped away from parading around with the Parellis, but they still use some of the methods.

Which is nice, as groundwork is good, just not like this, and not in the over-hyped sense that PP puts out there.

And you know, those Carrot Sticks really are nifty. They're the perfect stiffness for me to herd the little kids around the barn. Just stiff enough to give them a good whack, but not springy enough to hurt ;)

carolprudm
Mar. 12, 2010, 10:34 AM
I think they stepped away from parading around with the Parellis, but they still use some of the methods.

Which is nice, as groundwork is good, just not like this, and not in the over-hyped sense that PP puts out there.


I understand PP's appeal to people who don't know better but why the O'Connors and now WAZ?
It will never happen but I would love to hear WAZ's comments about this particular video

Coppers mom
Mar. 12, 2010, 11:32 AM
I understand PP's appeal to people who don't know better but why the O'Connors and now WAZ?
It will never happen but I would love to hear WAZ's comments about this particular video

Because the basic idea of what they do is good. For example, not letting your horse run you over, desensitizing them to things, moving their body around, etc. It's the same stuff that people have been doing for decades.

As far as why the O'Connors and WAZ joined the circus? Well, I'm sure quite a bit of money exchanged hands ;)

monstrpony
Mar. 12, 2010, 11:45 AM
There truly is no need to ever touch a horse with more than a light tap and you usually can get your point across with body language, EVEN in the beginning.

ESPECIALLY in the beginning. It's all of the tapping and fiddling with no timing and feel and no release for the small tries that makes them dull.

Kanga
Mar. 12, 2010, 02:36 PM
carolprudm- Who is WAZ?

Coppers mom- You are so right, it is all about the $$$$$$!!

Some of the things they do are alright...But the spinning to turn towards you and disengaging the horses is NOT good for them and does not make them better eventers or dressage horses. It will lame many of them if they do it for any length of time.

I had asked specifically about this and was told "the horses that go lame are the ones we weed out that won't make eventers". I disagree with this statement completely!

There are many horses out there that would go lame from this type of training but they are doing JUST FINE eventing!!

huntereq_princess
Mar. 12, 2010, 02:43 PM
WAZ: Walter A. Zettl

I spent the last three days watching this video. To say that Parelli has a cult like following is being kind. I briefly boarded at a Parelli barn when I needed a temp place for my horse. Tack is evil, any riding discipline is evil, showing is evil, crossties are evil, everthing in the traditional horse world is wrong, and if you don't accept everything they tell you to do with blind faith, then you don't deserve to be around horses. I learned one valuable lesson: stay far, far away...