Stallion suggestions for eventing?

[lizajane09]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of breeding my upper-level event mare next year and am hoping to get some suggestions for stallions. The mare is a 17 hh OTTB (pedigree here (http://www.pedigreequery.com/chatsworth+house)) who is currently competing at the Intermediate level and should have no problem going Advanced at the end of this year/beginning of next year.

Her attributes are that she's a very good jumper, has a good ground-covering stride on the x-c (usually makes time), is a decent mover, and has a fantastic attitude (very willing and honest). She has been brought up through the levels by an amateur (me), and she has proven herself to be very game and catty out there when I screw up. However, she's not great in the dressage - I would like to breed her to something that consistently produces babies doing well in that phase, as well as something that's a little more uphill and compact (she's rather long as well as tall). Mostly, we have trouble achieving good collection and engagement. Ideally, I would be hoping to produce another upper-level horse, although I know nothing's ever guaranteed.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, or any insight on her pedigree that you might have! I was thinking potentially a KWPN stallion (no one specific in mind yet) might be an interesting match, any opinions on that?

TIA!

[cottagefarm]

I think if you do a search here on COTH you will find lots of threads on this subject thats how I do alot of my research :)
Seems like there was something not too long ago!

[JER]

Consul (http://www.ironspringfarm.com/horses/profile_breeding.php?unid=803&sc=warmbloods&sidenav=profile)

He's sired some successful eventers as well as eventer-type jumpers and straight dressage horses. However, I would ask Iron Spring how he crosses with TB mares.


Catherston Dazzler (http://www.emcostallionservices.com/stallions/dazzler.html)

If you want a UL eventer out of a TB mare, this is a very proven formula. You'll also get a short-coupled foal. But while your CD offspring will have the movement to win the dressage (and do well in straight dressage), it will prefer to gallop and jump. Also, semen supplies are running out and he may no longer be available in the US.

Catherston Dazzler offspring all look alike. If you search for photos of Harry Meade's Midnight Dazzler, that's pretty much what you'll get.

Olivier (http://www.imajica.net/olivier.html)

Olivier is KWPN with a fair amount of Gelderlander blood (which I like a lot). He does GP dressage but, if you look at the video on his site, has a terrific jump. He has a willing, brave temperament that he passes on to his offspring -- many have been bred/raised/ridden by amateurs and teens. There is at least one who's out there eventing and there's a nice photo on the website of one out of a TB mare. (His owner posts on this BB.)

[lizajane09]

cottagefarm, I did do a search and it definitely gave me some possibilities! I just wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions specific for this mare.

JER, thank you for the suggestions. Consul has been in the back of my mind (saw an ad for him many years ago and thought he looked fantastic!); I think I will be getting in touch with ISF. Catherston Dazzler is obviously an outstanding possibility, but with a very limited supply of frozen semen left I'm not sure I'll be able to obtain any of it. IIRC from their website, they have a waiting list already for what is left :(. I had not thought of Olivier - he definitely sounds like he's worth putting on the list and checking into!

[JER]

Catherston Dazzler is obviously an outstanding possibility, but with a very limited supply of frozen semen left I'm not sure I'll be able to obtain any of it. IIRC from their website, they have a waiting list already for what is left :(.

I know that EMCO has a waiting list but there is also the possibility of buying direct from the UK. I did this when I bred to CD but that was in 2000/2001 before CD has a US rep.

(It is not at all difficult to act as your own importer. :))

[lizajane09]

I know that EMCO has a waiting list but there is also the possibility of buying direct from the UK. I did this when I bred to CD but that was in 2000/2001 before CD has a US rep.

(It is not at all difficult to act as your own importer. :))

I will definitely look into that - thanks so much for the suggestion! I think he would cross very well with this mare. She's much happier to gallop and jump than do dressage too, so I guess we know what the baby's preference would be :).

[horsetales]

My first suggestion is to look to an irish Draught/sport horse Bradenburgs Windstar is ranked I think #2 event sire and has produced numerous upper level mounts. He does often produce pro rides, but with talent. If you go to irishdraughtauction.com I believe the auction is currently underway

For a WB, I like Gatsby who combines hanoverian and TB (Hawaii and Seattle Slew great for eventing lines)

There are several Traks who would also be good choices

[time fault]

I suggest Lotus T. You will get the better gaits you want, keep or improve the jump and get a ton of elasticity. There is a very real chance of having an upper level foal by him even if your mare wasn't, but it definitely improves the odds.

[Carol Ames]

rather than tb, OldNA or Hol?

[lizajane09]

rather than tb, OldNA or Hol?

I'm not at all set on KWPN, it was just a thought based on what I'm trying to improve in this mare. Since she is all TB herself, I wasn't really planning on breeding her to a TB stallion - I was looking more toward WB options that could really improve her dressage, or possibly ISH. However, I'm open to any suggestions!

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! Horsetales, Brandenburg's Windstar is definitely on the list of possibilites - I don't have a problem with a tougher ride as long as it's talented/athletic!

[Willow Mist Farm]

VDL Navarone who stands at Majestic Gaits sounds like he would meet your criteria. KWPN, compact, throws good movement. Started out as a jumper and now doing dressage and known for passing on good temperament. I just sold a lovely 3 year old filly by Navarone as an eventing prospect. She is athletic, fancy, catty and a super quick hind leg and ability to sit all with a good temperament.

[sfstable]

I'm not at all set on KWPN, it was just a thought based on what I'm trying to improve in this mare. Since she is all TB herself, I wasn't really planning on breeding her to a TB stallion - I was looking more toward WB options that could really improve her dressage, or possibly ISH. However, I'm open to any suggestions!

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! Horsetales, Brandenburg's Windstar is definitely on the list of possibilites - I don't have a problem with a tougher ride as long as it's talented/athletic!

How about the stallion, Edelweiss du Bonce ?

Granted, I know very little about eventing :) but he has a jumper pedigree and he was successfully shown through Grand Prix dressage.

[horsechica58]

Worthy Opponent is dressage bred, but being campaigned as an eventer and doing quite well I believe. You could check him out :) He is still a relatively young stallion, and I'm not sure how his offspring look, but it's worth a look :)

[RyTimMick]

It is my understanding that Hilltops Riverman has done well with TB's for producing top Eventers. I would contact them to see what type of TB mare does best.

I would also strongly consider looking into Cicero. Karen has just recently offered him back to the public via frozen. He was a tremendous stallion. As he is the full brother to Cavalier Royale, I shouldn't have to say anymore.

Tim

[Molly Malone]

Have a look at some of the Trakehner stallions that are eventing. Off the top of my head, Windfall, Fandango, Zauberruf, Ballzauber (he might be frozen though, and if your mare is an older maiden, you might want to stick with fresh), Pavarotti and Inamorato come to mind.

[leslie645]

Check out this guy:)

1/2 way down the page this explains why he moves SOOOOO well:
http://www.sport-horse-breeder.com/understanding-pedigrees.html

http://www.ranchocorazon.us/stallions/cimarron/Cimarron_Fact_Sheet.pdf

heres a son from a TB mare:
http://www.ranchocorazon.us/stallions/cimarron/offspring.html

heres some more on him
http://www.sportequine.net/cimarronad.pdf

Enjoy
Leslie

[leslie645]

hmmm, I saw some video of him on XC course gettin' it done...but I cant remember where?
he has a nice gallop too.

[omare]

http://acornhillfarm.com/stallions/index.php?stallion=pallas

I am pretty sure, like Riverman and Navarone, Pallas Dignon has horses ranked on the FEI eventing list last year: "Pallas has sired several advanced eventers including: Daisy Dick’s Spring Along II who was on the Bronze Medal winning team for Great Britain in the 2008 Olympics. Acorn Hill Farm’s Bailey Wick ridden by Philip Dutton and Boyd Martin. Kristen Bond’s Three Wishes who has been sold to Oliver Townend of Great Britain."

Of course-based on this- I am only assuming the dressage scores are holding up. He may be more rectangular standing than you want (just based on photo?), but if you are in the mid-altantic area- you can always go and visit and see for yourself.

[talloaks]

I agree Hilltop Farm's Riverman could do the job!!

[Carol Ames]

definitely look at Windfall!Have a look at some of the Trakehner stallions that are eventing. Off the top of my head, Windfall, Fandango, Zauberruf, Ballzauber (he might be frozen though, and if your mare is an older maiden, you might want to stick with fresh), Pavarotti and Inamorato come to mind.

[Carol Ames]

If, you can find some, consider Summer Song!

[Carol Ames]

A Fine Romance

[Carol Ames]

I thought that Calvaro was a Holsteiner:cool: so, I was surprised to find this: Ralvesther: 1998 KWPN mare (by Calvaro xx?


I am fairly certain he is NOT a Tb:no: or:confused:?

[Performance Sires]

Classico Z is one of Eventer Danny Warrington's rising stars. Sire is Holsteiner Capitaan who jumped 1.30m at his stallion approvals at age 23. He is the last living stallion son of legendary sire Capitano. Very uphill, compact, jumps with feet by his ears and has very good dressage ability. He is now 27, sound and correct. He has great endurance and wind. His warmblood foals are modern with great minds, movement and ability. His TB x foals are conformationally correct, beautiful movers and have his superior jumping ability. All his foals are brave yet carefull, consistant in their type, movement and jumping ability also.
Classico Z's dam is the successful TB jumper Happy Morning Her dam was by Arieto from a NZ bred mare by
Battle-Waggon.
Classico AEC video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F-JrD2YEmw&feature=related
Classico Z facebook
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Classico-Z-Eventing/198567310694?v=info
Another eventing prospect 3yr old grey gelding Capitaan x TB is available.
See more on Capitaan at http://www.hilcatfarm.com

[camohn]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of breeding my upper-level event mare next year and am hoping to get some suggestions for stallions. The mare is a 17 hh OTTB (pedigree here (http://www.pedigreequery.com/chatsworth+house)) who is currently competing at the Intermediate level and should have no problem going Advanced at the end of this year/beginning of next year.

Her attributes are that she's a very good jumper, has a good ground-covering stride on the x-c (usually makes time), is a decent mover, and has a fantastic attitude (very willing and honest). She has been brought up through the levels by an amateur (me), and she has proven herself to be very game and catty out there when I screw up. However, she's not great in the dressage - I would like to breed her to something that consistently produces babies doing well in that phase, as well as something that's a little more uphill and compact (she's rather long as well as tall). Mostly, we have trouble achieving good collection and engagement. Ideally, I would be hoping to produce another upper-level horse, although I know nothing's ever guaranteed.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, or any insight on her pedigree that you might have! I was thinking potentially a KWPN stallion (no one specific in mind yet) might be an interesting match, any opinions on that?

TIA!

Waldaire:not KWPN though....his kids can go AWR or Old/ISR.

pic of 3 month old Wally filly o/o my TB mare
He has a rocking chair canter (Tasker has let me ride him in the past) and definitely compact in the back.
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/camohn03/?action=view&current=IMG_6436.jpg
My other Waldaire filly o/o a TB mare (pictured as a weanling around 7 months old)
http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/camohn03/?action=view&current=4HPics08039.jpg
has been hopping over the pasture fence since she was 4 months old. The chestnut here is quieter and not as inspired to go leaving the property (AWOL), thank goodness......
It currently looks like the chestnut will mature at 16.2H and the black (she is sunbleached in the photo) at 16.3H.

[TSHEventing]

I suggest Lotus T. You will get the better gaits you want, keep or improve the jump and get a ton of elasticity. There is a very real chance of having an upper level foal by him even if your mare wasn't, but it definitely improves the odds.


Also a huge foal.

[FMulder]

Grafenstolz - he's the 2004 World 6YO World Eventing Champion, and the only horse in history to have gine to all three disciplines at the German Bundeschampionats in the same year (6YO), he won the eventing with an average score of 9.5.

Further he has just competed (after only 5 months of dressage training) his first Intermediare 1.

As an adult horse he won at 2 and 3* level.

Then his production: His oldest are 8 this year, three years ago his eldest was the vice champion in the Bundeschampionat 5YO, and he had two qualify for (but not selected) for the World young horse championships. These two are are also both in the top 300 eventing horses in the world as 7YO's in 2009.

His super grade frozen semen is available with Judy Yancey and you can see video of him here http://www.frenchstallions.org/stallions/grafenstolz/2007025.html

Then contact Judy, she'll fill you in.

[mbp]

You don't mention how you feel on the size front so I don't know if that is an issue or not.

Re: the KWPN, if you're looking Dutch you may as well look Holsteiner as well as there is so much commonality. One thing you may well get is a more knee-sy, rounder canter (not necessarily a blow the time out of the water canter) but with what you've said about your mare, that may be all to the good for what you want.

I've got a Cicero mare and can second you look into him, especially if you want a good jump and some aptitude for dressage - I don't generally think of him for eventing though, but for your wants, maybe.

Caretino & sons typically also give you a shot at good jump and nice dressage aptitude.

Navarone sounds like an option worth looking at. Goodtimes has a reputation for passing on good gaits as well as jump. Idocus and offspring (Olivier, Opus that I can think of) stallions have good dressage reputations and can jump. If you stray a bit outside Hol/KWPN, a lot of R line stallions will give you dressage aptitude and some nice jump and may not give you as much knee as the Dutch and HOl options - which may or may not be what you want.

Also, stallions with some close up Beach Boy might be a good option - Beach Boy had good Jump, good gaits, and IIRC made a couple of international eventers.

[not again]

The Australians have been producing some very successful event horses for many years. Worth noting are offspring of Souvenir.
http://www.horsemagazine.com/JumpingBreeders/Breeders.html
http://www.horsemagazine.com/BREEDINGBARN/GREAT_STALLIONS/SOUVENIR/souvenir.htm

[titan]

Acorn Hill has quite a few very nice stallions and they were a pleasure to work with.

http://acornhillfarm.com/stallions/index.php?stallion=pallas

I am pretty sure, like Riverman and Navarone, Pallas Dignon has horses ranked on the FEI eventing list last year: "Pallas has sired several advanced eventers including: Daisy Dick’s Spring Along II who was on the Bronze Medal winning team for Great Britain in the 2008 Olympics. Acorn Hill Farm’s Bailey Wick ridden by Philip Dutton and Boyd Martin. Kristen Bond’s Three Wishes who has been sold to Oliver Townend of Great Britain."

Of course-based on this- I am only assuming the dressage scores are holding up. He may be more rectangular standing than you want (just based on photo?), but if you are in the mid-altantic area- you can always go and visit and see for yourself.

[cyriz's mom]

I know you're not really looking for a TB because of the movement, but you might consider Sea Accounts.

He successfully completed the 2004 100 day stallion test and earned a lifetime license, has competed in the jumpers, evented through Prelim with the scope to go Adv, and is now competing in dressage.

He started his dressage career right at a year ago and in six months qualified for the Region 9 Championships at 2nd and 3rd level. He will be competing at 4th this spring and we are hoping to move him up to PSG by the end of the year. He was the only TB stallion competing at 3rd level last year, and if/when he makes PSG, he will be the first TB stallion since Glitter Please in the 1980s to do so. Glitter Please went on to GP and we are hopeful that Sea Accounts will do the same. He consistently scores 7s and 8s for gaits.

Oh, and he jumps over 5' and has a temperament to die for.

He has two offspring currently competing, both in the hunter ring, both coming 5. One is at his 2nd A show right now. He was Champion of his division today and was also Champion at his very first A show on Long Island. The other was Res. Champ at her first show.

He will have youngsters competing in eventing this year as well as more in the h/j ring.

[jhodkin]

Semen from Future Illusion will be available in the US this season and he would certainly meet the requirements you have. He is by the elite trakehner sire Fleetwater Opposition who was a Grand Prix dressage stallion as well as Junior European Individual and Team Eventing Gold medalist. Fleetwater Opposition is also the sire of the stallion Summersong who was mentioned earlier in the thread as a potential stallion option for you. Future Illusion has the added bonus of being out of a motherline that includes Skippy (sire of Jumbo), Spiritus (sire of Master Spiritus) and Cheltenham Gold Cup winners.

In 2009 he was the No.1 ranked sire of Event Youngstock ahead of 23 other British and European based stallions at the British Equestrian Federation Futurity Evaluations. The British Equestrian Federation rankings are listed here -
http://www.nedonline.co.uk/public/futurity/SireRankings.aspx

Future Illusion also sired the Champion Eventer and Res. Supreme Champion at the BEF Elite Championship Show in 2008, as well as 3 Elite event youngstock in 2008 and 2009. He has already been selected by International riders, trainers and selectors in the UK to be used on their top mares. His semen is also in demand in Germany.

He is being produced Olympic medalist Jeanette Brakewell and has been graded and approved by the German studbook the ZfdP. There will be some very exciting deals for his launch year in the US and his semen will be available through Christine Miller at EMCO Stallion Services. The details will be appearing on her website soon.

This is Future Illusion's webpage -
http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk/Future_illusion1.htm

[FMulder]

"No.1 ranked sire of Event Youngstock" - what are the oldest of these please (at the time of the ranking)?

"graded and approved by the German studbook the ZfdP" - which book was he approved into? and do you have the scores from his approval?

"He is being produced Olympic medalist Jeanette Brakewell " - Can you give us his results whilst she was riding him as a five year old please?

[FMulder]

Shocking name, great horse!

He's by Royal Diamond, who's dam sire is the Anglo Arab Inschallah. RD is famed in German for the rideabliti of his his stock.

The most important thing in Royaldik's pedigree is that he is out of the full sister of Heraldik xx, the 2009 world number 1 sire of event horses Butts Abraxxas and Butts Leon and Sam Griffiths Happy Times who I think was third at badminton last year.

He covered Headle Brittania, Penny Royal and Little Tiger last year, which gives him three out of the top five ever eventing mares (Jaguar Mail won the Justin Timberlake award for having all five girls over the last two years).

If you're looking for a recommendation for proven stallions, JHodkin used both Royaldik and Grafenstolz last year.;)

[tillybear]

Apparently Royaldik crosses better with mares with a strong jumping background (bloodwise). Super looking horse, very quality and lovely movement.

re the reply to jhodkin: FMulder, get a grip.

A lovely horse competing in the UK is Chilli Morning. Advanced event horse http://www.gauntlett.me.uk/images/studcard.pdf

[FMulder]

"FMulder, get a grip." Yes, I'd like to get a grip on the facts if you have any for us please?

[tillybear]

Oh! I've just discovered the ignore button!

[Jenny Jones]

Oh dear; Mr Rehill's old jealousies seem to be surfacing here. Tillybear is giving you some very good advice, Mr Rehill; wasn't it an attack against Julia Hodkin that got you banned from the Horse and Hound forum?

[Coppers mom]

Why is it always an attack to ask questions?

The OP is looking for an upper level eventer. While foal awards are a great start for a stallion, they're not as good at predicting upper level success as an older foal going even Novice.

IMO, while it's a great accomplishment, it is jumping the gun a bit to say a stallion is capable of producing what the OP is looking for based solely on foal awards.