Connemara peeps ~ educate me please.... :)

[mbm]

ok, so i have narrowed my sport pony /small horse search criteria down to Cobs & Connemara's - however, i know nothing about Connemara's , their breeding etc.

I have found some AMAZING Connemara's out there - very sporty, very athletic! a couple off the top of my head in the US are:

ArdCeltic Art (http://www.hiddencreekhorses.com/Additional-pics.html)
Balleywhim An Luan (http://www.bittersweetirishdraught.com/lou.htm)
and of course Wildwych Eclipse (http://www.goodpony.net/RedbudRanch/Stallion.html)

and when i look around at the breeders around the world i see some *phenomenal* ponies!!!!

I would assume that there are specific lines of breeding in the Connemara that produce the super athletes..... (?) if so which ones?

Also, I really want over 14.2 .. 15h would be best..... are there specific lines that are bigger?

Since Connemara's seem to be hot commodity I will need to buy young.... so, I need an education on how to pick young stock. I want my next dressage horse and the important factors for me are: ridability, good usage of the back, "big step" so more of a horse gait than pony with a back that will swing, .... and of course ability to collect, willingness to do the work etc.

i want a mare too :)

anyway..... i would LOVE to hear what folks say.... or if you have sites for me to visit etc that would be great too....

and finally - is it as expensive to import a pony as it is a horse?

How can i tell what kind of pony a youngster will mature too? I have never been good at this with horses, so any tips would be helpful....

<pony shopping is so fun!>

[twistoffate]

I LOVE connemaras!!! I'm currently breeding Conn/TB crosses.

I bought my mare from www.darkhorsestation.com

My mom has one from the lady at the bottom of Dark Horse's sale page.

I really like ArdCeltic Art and also like ponies with Grange Finn Sparrow blood. I had a filly that I bred by him out of my WBx mare and she is currently out west doing 4th level dressage. I bred her to jump and she easly schooled up to 4'6" before I sold her. :) I've seen many Grange offspring and they all had wonderful movement along with jump. But people tend to hold onto them so they are hard to come by :)

I look more for jumping so someone else will hopefully chime in about dressage ponies. But the connemaras are a wonderful breed and excel at EVERYTHING!

Happy hunting! There are a lot of wonderful ponies out there. Look on the ACPS website also. They have a classified page.

[mbm]

yeah, i am seriously thinking of breeding my WB (wolkentanzxtb) mare to Ardceltic Art.... he is stunning! and i am looking at a 2 yo gelding & filly by Eclipse and a 2 yo filly by ballywhim an Luan... how to chose!

[Carol Ames]

Look into some by Owen O' Neil;); I handled a number of his "kids" ;); they were all :yes:nice sport horse types; go visit stud/ breeding farms; and see what youngsters look like:cool:

[amastrike]

*Ardceltic Art is GORGEOUS. I'd consider breeding my TB mare to him if I were planning on breeding (and honestly, seeing him really makes me want to breed!).

[Allagash's mom]

I vote for Wildwych Eclipse (http://www.goodpony.net/RedbudRanch/Stallion.html) !

[mbm]

I vote for Wildwych Eclipse (http://www.goodpony.net/RedbudRanch/Stallion.html) !
:yes::yes: he is one of the 3 i listed in my OP.... :)

[goodpony]

I love all the ponies mentioned---might be a little biased as one of them lives with me.

I wanted to second Kelly Windus' program---I love Glenormiston Cuchulain---Glenormiston (http://www.glenormistonconnemaras.com/) breeding is world class.

I also wanted to recommend Century Hill Farms in Ontario Canada not only for there outstanding mares but also wanted to mention their new young stallion: *Kippure Cara. (http://www.sportponymagazine.com/uploads/images/2009/kippurecara-royal3.jpg)

Also in Canada is Elite Stallion Maplehurst Micheal Macdaire who is well known for producing both lovely purebred and partbred offspring--some of which I understand to be competing at the upper levels in eventing.

PS. we are wickedly excited to have both an Eclipse foal and an Art foal coming any minute:D

[blueskye]

Here is a link to a small Connemara breeder in Massachusetts:
http://www.bantrybayfarm.com/stallions.html

Unfortunately their website isn't terribly informative. You'll probably need to call Candy and Bill to find out what they currently have for sale. I only found them because a friend of mine boards her horses there and I trained her mare there for a year. Bantry Bay is a bit off the map but they consistently produce some very high quality youngstock. I'm consistently in love with all of the babies from their bay stallion stallion Kilcullen.

[twinlights]

We have a Ballywhim An Luan daughter, Hannah Jumper, coming three in March.
She is currently measuring 14.3H. She is only half Connemara, but is a beauty and has a fabulous disposition. Very easy to handle and work with, a nice strong build as well. She would make a very nice dressage prospect, and I think she just the size you are looking for.
We are in MA.

[pcwertb]

If you are looking for size and good movement, you could track down a *Gun Smoke youngster. He was exported back to Ireland, but there is frozen semen and he put a lot of babies on the ground. He is 15 hands.

My *Gun Smoke/TB filly is eventing in TX but has dressage judges constantly telling Carol she should switch over to dressage!

I bred a fabulous half-bred, Top Gun (*Gun Smoke) out of my trakehner mare, who is a half sib of the Connemara/TB filly (share the dam, not the sire) who is a yearling and is going to be 15.2 or so.....she is exquisite!

[Sassenach]

Welcome to the breed :)

We've been breeding Connemaras for 48 years in Ireland in 2005 brought imported our first ponies from Ireland to the States.

Some good lines to look at available in the States:

Glenormiston Lines - Wildwych Eclipse, his sire Glenormiston Flurry Knox (at Wildwych Connemaras), Glenormiston Cuchulainn (Dark Horse Station)

Grange Lines: sadly I think if you are looking for a purebred Connemara from the Grange lines it will be harder as Grange Finn Sparrow was bred more with TBs to produce halfbreds. Purebred mares from this line are very, very rare.

Monaghanstown: this is the bloodline that produced *Ard Celtic Art and the Monaghanstown stallions have really been making names for themselves in Europe as sire of performance ponies.

Hazy lines: Kippure Cara (in Canada at Century Hill), our stallion *The Quietman

The Hideaway lines are very athletic but also notorious for being hot and not as typical and true to the type (higher percentage of TB blood).

I will send you a PM with a list of people who should have what you are looking for.

[GreyDun]

Totally biased, because we own this stallion, but our Connemara Tre Awain Goldsmith (http://cadyodalyfarm.net/stallion.htm) is 15.2. His purebreds tend to be over-sized as well - which we love! I myself am a huge fan of his Thoroughbred-cross babies.

He also has a great competition record, as do his offspring.

PM me if you want more info!

[mbm]

so many drool worthy ponies!

i am not sure how i missed the Connemara all these years ;) thanks for the tips and links, please keep them coming, and any info on top lines for sport ponies would be appreciated :)

question: since we now have sport pony registries, is there any benefit of buying a PB mare instead of say a half bred? I am leaning towards PB, but they are very difficult to find in a filly.

has any seen any video footage of Ballywhim An Luan? I adore his pics, but that doesn't tell me much about how he uses his body etc. for those with his foals, is there any video?

many thanks!

[mbm]

Welcome to the breed :)

We've been breeding Connemaras for 48 years in Ireland in 2005 brought imported our first ponies from Ireland to the States.

Some good lines to look at available in the States:

Glenormiston Lines - Wildwych Eclipse, his sire Glenormiston Flurry Knox (at Wildwych Connemaras), Glenormiston Cuchulainn (Dark Horse Station)

Grange Lines: sadly I think if you are looking for a purebred Connemara from the Grange lines it will be harder as Grange Finn Sparrow was bred more with TBs to produce halfbreds. Purebred mares from this line are very, very rare.

Monaghanstown: this is the bloodline that produced *Ard Celtic Art and the Monaghanstown stallions have really been making names for themselves in Europe as sire of performance ponies.

Hazy lines: Kippure Cara (in Canada at Century Hill), our stallion *The Quietman

The Hideaway lines are very athletic but also notorious for being hot and not as typical and true to the type (higher percentage of TB blood).

I will send you a PM with a list of people who should have what you are looking for.

super info! thanks i look forward the the PM :)

[Chaila]

When I was a kid in upstate NY we had the privilege to hang out with the Greystone's Connemaras.

Graystone McErrill and Hideaway Grayston Alex were two of the loveliest horses I've ever seen. The two stallions were stabled side by side. Never squealed. Georgeous and dead quiet and I think Erril went on to do great things competitively. I recently read the Errill was euthanized recently at the age of 30+ years.

A little googling found me some progeny. Looks like they're doing TB crosses here... Makes me want to multiply my horse budget by a factor of 10!

http://www.tricreek.com/Sales.html

Enjoy. Keep posting about your search.. I want to live vicariously. there's a 15 H gelding by Tre Awain Goldsmith in Syracuse right now for only 4k. (Found him in one of my many Connemara searches.) He's on dreamhorse or equine.com

Looks super nice!

[pcwertb]

Breeders with the really nice mares try to keep their ponies "pony sized" from what I have seen....especially their fillies. You will more often see geldings "oversized".

There are quite a few who believe the ponies should be 14.3 and under, and over-sized ponies should not be the goal of any good breeding program (afraid of losing pony "type"). So you might find the over-size a challenge to find unless you go with a half-bred.

Camus John (old blood) put some good movers out there (for dressage) so finding that blood is quite nice. But there are still a lot of connemaras out there that are a bit straight in the shoulder for the best of trots. They all seem to have "horse sized gaits" but certainly don't expect wb type movement out of them!

If dressage is your goal, I am pretty sure Tre Awain Cavan O'Conner competed to 2nd level. Ballinboy Eamon has a son (Shammer Jake) competing at Intermediare. Balius Rhyddspence competed to PSG. There are a few ponies in southern CA competing at the higher levels but I have never seen them in person.

This little mare (13.3, full brother was 14.2) is a great mover. She is also my best over fences. My trainer does think she moves like a small wb. Her filly foal will only mature to 14.2, though, as she was bred to a 14.2 pony (Top Gun). I breed my ponies to remain pony sized and the half-breds to be 15.2 to 16 hands. That seems to be pretty common among the breeders I have met.

[J. Bewley]

so many drool worthy ponies!


has any seen any video footage of Ballywhim An Luan? I adore his pics, but that doesn't tell me much about how he uses his body etc.
many thanks!

I watched his ISR inspection at Hilltop Farm a few years ago and he kicked serious warmblood butt! I'm sure if you contact Maura she can provide you with video. He's a very nice mover and very athletic.

We've bred two Conn/TB by Moxley Duncan and both finished about 15 - 15.1h. One did very well at USDF recognized shows and both hunted.

I'll second Tre Awain Goldsmith. I've seen him in action at USEA horse trials and hanging out in his stall. He's prety much everything I like in a horse so we bred one of our TB mares to him and are expecting a late May foal...which will be a filly because that's all we have!

Regards,
Pat
www.catoctinsporthorses.com

[mbm]

J. Bewley - do you (or anyone else) have Maura's contact info? The number i had is old.

if anyone has her info please PM me - thanks!

[alyssap87]

I was actually the one that broke and trained Glenormiston Cuchulainn for several months. He is very athletic, great mover and jumper, and best of all has a super mind. He is underused due to the fact that he isn't promoted as much as some of the other top Connemara stallions. Kelly Windus of Dark Horse Station is super nice and easy to work with. She is also quite honest and very knowledgeable about the breed and bloodlines.

[goodpony]

here is a lovely article written about the success of Glenormiston Ponies in Dressage....

I love Cuchulain :)

www.connemarapony.org/documents/Australian_performance_news.pdf

[mbm]

you folks are super!

so much great info.... please keep it coming.... :)

[erinwillow]

Well, . . .since the OP did ask about sport bloodlines I guess it should come as no surprise that Carna Bobby is highly regarding as "sport" breeding, especially when line bred (if you look closely at the breeding of the stallions you've mentioned you will see the cross). The wonderful thing about Connemaras is not only their great mind and hardiness but their versitality. You can have a pony that can jump the moon and then take a quiet trail ride or a perfect beginners pony, safe and sound.

Re: *Ard Celtic Art, our Shammer Gypsy Queen is booked to him this summer and the cross will yield Carna Bobby on top and bottom. In the interim, she is bred to our stallion Landsdown Willow's Harbour Boy and will have her foal this summer.

As we aim to maintain traditional bloodlines that are often under represtened here in North America, our stallion does a nice job of passing on the Thunderbolt genes as well as the *Chiltern genes that have won so much fame in the UK With honoured breeder Pat LYne.

[erinwillow]

so many drool worthy ponies!

i am not sure how i missed the Connemara all these years ;) thanks for the tips and links, please keep them coming, and any info on top lines for sport ponies would be appreciated :)

question: since we now have sport pony registries, is there any benefit of buying a PB mare instead of say a half bred? I am leaning towards PB, but they are very difficult to find in a filly.

has any seen any video footage of Ballywhim An Luan? I adore his pics, but that doesn't tell me much about how he uses his body etc. for those with his foals, is there any video?

many thanks!

We actually have a Ballywhim An LUAN GRAND son here at the moment< WILLOW"S ASLAN> through his dam> I have video and photos of him posted on our website if you are curious to see how the genes flesh out. :winkgrin:

[GAEventer]

I love the *Grange Finn Sparrow ponies for jumping/eventing but as stated by a couple of folks above, it's highly unlikely that you'll find a purebred mare (I've tried! I have two half-breds). However, Grange's half-brother, *Grange Finch, is standing in VA at Oakfield Farm. These two boys are by Coosheen Finn and from the Carna Bobby, blue-line, that is notorious for outrageous jumping ability.

I've seen, and ridden, Art, I've booked my half-bred mare to him for this spring. He's an incredible athlete and has a wonderful, happy, willing temperament.

You may also want to check out www.ridgetopconnemara.com. They stand three stallions, and have a lot of ponies out there competing successfully. Aladdin's Denver was very successful in his eventing and dressage careers, and is a proven sire of eventing purebreds and half-breds.

I will also "third" or "fourth" Glenormiston Cuchulainn. I've seen him in person; he's a lovely mover and passes on a great mind and temperament. Kelly does have a few fillies for sale.

Best of luck, I hope you join Team Connemara!

[leslie645]

Take a peek at Tulira Roebuck ..hes a hottie and I *believe* a dressage guy too boot.
http://www.shelbournefarm.com/tulira_roebuck.html

I loff him.
I have an Irish draught mare that I think would cross sooooo nicely with him. Shes 15'2, I'd love to breed to him. And get a large Connie/ID for my kids.

[leslie645]

Whoa. I just looked at ArdCeltic Art...holy smokes hes niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

wowza.

[goodpony]

Well, . . .since the OP did ask about sport bloodlines I guess it should come as no surprise that Carna Bobby is highly regarding as "sport" breeding, especially when line bred (if you look closely at the breeding of the stallions you've mentioned you will see the cross). The wonderful thing about Connemaras is not only their great mind and hardiness but their versitality. You can have a pony that can jump the moon and then take a quiet trail ride or a perfect beginners pony, safe and sound.


I love both my linebred Carna Bobby's (we have a lot of this in our program)...they are all very beautiful and athletic.

Here is a little bit I pulled from the internet regarding:

Carna Bobby

Stallion, sire: Gil, dam: Carna Dolly, sire of dam: Buckna xx

Among Carna Bobby's progeny you find the stallions Island King, The Admiral, Ballydonagh Bobby, Ardilaun, Ballydonagh Rob, Leam Bobby Finn, Lambay Bobby, Killyreagh Kim, Sticky, Coosheen Finn, Bloomfield Bobby, Ashfield Bobby Sparrow, Ashfield Sparrow, Grange Bobbing Sparrow and Tantallon Bobby.

Carna Bobby also sired well-known mares as Queen of Diamonds, Julie, Anna Maree, Atlantic Surf, Silver Lace, Ganty Mint, Ashfield Loyal Sparrow, Abbeyleix Holly, Fort Viola, Ganty Jane II, Ashfield Silver Cloud and Abbeyleix Fiona.

When I look at a pedigree these are some of the ponies I like to see.

Also worth noting are the sons and daughters of Finola of Leam: Abbeyleix Finbar (AUS), Coosheen Finn (IRE), Fionnualla (IRE), Leam Bobby Finn (UK)...and several others.

I dont have time right now but I think it would be great fun to track down some of the pedigrees of the ponies mentioned in this article regarding the european championships: http://ashbrookstud.ie/connemara-ponies-in-the-medals-at-european-championships-at-moorsele-belgium/

[columbus]

I think there is a Connemara Yahoo Group you should join maybe someone can give you the address. Also I remember some conflict about Connemara size which may be important as you talk about Connemaras over pony size. I thought there was a lot of effort to bring DOWN the size. I mention this as there is an inspection process in Connemaras.
http://www.cpbs.ie/
http://www.britishconnemaras.co.uk/index.php?id=5
http://www.acps.org/
Have fun. PatO

[poltroon]

ACPS does a nice job of supporting both halfbred and purebred Connemaras. Columbus just pointed you to http://www.acps.org/, where you can see a list of some for sale and browse around a bit. Consider subscribing to the magazine - bimonthly Connemara goodness in your mailbox.

I will also suggest, if you're serious about shopping, planning a trek to the West Coast Connemara Show, which will be at Twin Rivers in Paso Robles June 25-27. Last year, they did an open USEF/CDS dressage show on Friday, with Connemara breed classes and driving on Saturday, and a USEF L hunter/jumper show on Sunday. It was a great way to see a lot of different Connemaras all in one place, performing with adults, with pros, with kids. And, there will be many knowledgeable people there, breeders, importers, etc. Last year there was a breed inspection in conjunction with the show.

You might also be interested in connecting with the Region X Connemara group at http://acpsregionx.ning.com/.

[Carol Ames]

Gretchen Singleton;) competed a connie stallion at FEI level :yes:in NE Ohio; last time I saw her, she was living in the chagrin area The Lewises may know how to locate her

[Carol Ames]

the ACPS futurity show in Middleburg is in August; always a good place to look;

[Carol Ames]

Ask Vicky WADLOW, MOUNTAINFIELDS CONNEMAEAS IN THE plains, va; she HAS BRED MANY:yes: FUTURITY WINNERS:cool:

[Sassenach]

Gretchen Singleton;) competed a connie stallion at FEI level :yes:in NE Ohio; last time I saw her, she was living in the chagrin area The Lewises may know how to locate her

Gretchen recently passed away :(

[erinwillow]

ACPS does a nice job of supporting both halfbred and purebred Connemaras. Columbus just pointed you to http://www.acps.org/, where you can see a list of some for sale and browse around a bit. Consider subscribing to the magazine - bimonthly Connemara goodness in your mailbox.

I will also suggest, if you're serious about shopping, planning a trek to the West Coast Connemara Show, which will be at Twin Rivers in Paso Robles June 25-27. Last year, they did an open USEF/CDS dressage show on Friday, with Connemara breed classes and driving on Saturday, and a USEF L hunter/jumper show on Sunday. It was a great way to see a lot of different Connemaras all in one place, performing with adults, with pros, with kids. And, there will be many knowledgeable people there, breeders, importers, etc. Last year there was a breed inspection in conjunction with the show.

You might also be interested in connecting with the Region X Connemara group at http://acpsregionx.ning.com/.

poltroon,

I am so glad that you mentioned visiting a show this season as a good and informative way to become acquainted with the breed, "first hand" as they say. Sasenach will certainly have more to say on this but my understanding is that there will be a repeat of the highly successful and qualtiy show at her farm, Windy Isles again this summer. It will be the Midwestern's Region opportunity to showcase the breed as well as have an all out Irish good time :winkgrin:

[twistoffate]

I just wanted to add that Kelly graciously allowed my to ride *Glenormiston Cuchulainn when I went to pick up my girl and he was absolutely lovely!!! And a beautiful mover.

[Sportpony]

I've had Connemaras for close to 20 years now, started with them along with the warmbloods so have always been conscious of the movement.

The first Connemaras I saw with what I considered upper level dressage potential were by Glenormiston Flurry Knox ... not that there weren't others, but those were the ones I noticed particularly.

Big Bear Farm in Georgia is another farm that has breed for dressage potential for a number of generations. Their current stallion, Fergus, has competed very successfully at FEI levels ... many of their Connemaras carry a lot of Carna Bobby and Camus John lines. I have two Connemaras from Big Bear bloodlines and both have impressive movement, especially the stallion.

[Sassenach]

:confused:poltroon,

I am so glad that you mentioned visiting a show this season as a good and informative way to become acquainted with the breed, "first hand" as they say. Sasenach will certainly have more to say on this but my understanding is that there will be a repeat of the highly successful and qualtiy show at her farm, Windy Isles again this summer. It will be the Midwestern's Region opportunity to showcase the breed as well as have an all out Irish good time :winkgrin:

:D Yes, Windy Isles will be hosting the Midwest Connemara Pony Show again this summer (July 10th with Inspections to be held July 11th) it should be bigger (and better!) than last year - we're adding more classes and expanding due to interest and there should be even more Irish-themed events for the non-horsey folk (last year's attendance was estimated around 500 people!)

[mbm]

hey thanks again for all the super info! i appreciate everyone's willingness to share knowledge :)

and, i thought i would share that i went up to visit Eclipse and all the ponies at Redbud Ranch over the weekend. Lisa has some flat out beautiful ponies! and of course i fell in love with Tiger .

I will be hopefully viewing some videos of a few 2 yo fillies in the next week or so - another by Eclipse, one by Ballywhim An Luan, and maybe one by The Quietmann (if they arent snowed in!)

I am having a blast and it is a real honor to be able to perhaps own one of these super ponies.

stay tuned!

oh, and please do keep sharing on this thread as I am still open to any and all info :)

[goodpony]

Thanks M! Tiger is a breeding we are looking forwards to repeating...and hopefully get a filly :) I thought you as well as others might enjoy seeing Tigers half sister by Gunsmoke and out of Tigers mother our Premium mare Glenormiston Amelia (Domo Cavallo Praize x Glenormiston Clementine).....she is a long two year old in this photo and was inspected and approved with the ACPS in 2009.

[leslie645]

goodpony
what color is tiger's sister? Is she sooty or mealy? livery? She is a fantastic beautiful color.

[goodpony]

I dont know if her owner had her tested for the cream gene--but I suspect she is Dark Dun (Buckskin) She is a very Rich Brown Color like Dark Chocolate with a mealy muzzle....but could also possibly be brown as her mother was a very red bay before going grey. She does not have the dark countershading or sooty look I've seen on some other Buckskin/Duns. Mom is heterozygous for grey and has several non-grey babies---all very rich bright red bays with chrome though.

This is also Ole at the top of this page as a foal:
http://www.connemaras.com/g-baby.html

This is Tigers older half brother by Glenormiston Billies Bay: R. Cracker Jack.

[leslie645]

wow! thank GP

hmmmm, maybe shes dark chocolate latte <wink>

She is very cool whatever color.

[poltroon]

I am having a blast and it is a real honor to be able to perhaps own one of these super ponies.

Best of luck in finding the perfect partner. The more northern California Connemaras, the better!

[goodpony]

..... The more northern California Connemaras, the better!

We've just had another new baby arrive last night--a lovely bay colt foal by Eclipse out of Century Hills Taylor Maide. He's a real cutie! :) I think the next generation of the above family will arrive later this week.

[Cheerful1]

"The first Connemaras I saw with what I considered upper level dressage potential were by Glenormiston Flurry Knox ... not that there weren't others, but those were the ones I noticed particularly."

This is the reason I bought my three fillies from Mary Prewitt of Wildwych Connemaras (http://wildwy.fatcow.com/), who owns Glenormiston Flurry Knox. She sold me her palomino filly Wildwych Pixie Dust (http://pets.webshots.com/album/559692240rebByd), by Glenormiston Flurry Knox out of her great foundation mare Glenormiston Roscrea. When I was thinking about buying a Connemara, Mary sent me a video of Pixie in which she showed off what I consider to be upper level dressage movement. Pixie is a three-quarters sister to Wildwych Eclipse too (correct me if I'm wrong Goodpony!)

My filly Scarlet also was bred by Mary from Wildwych - she is by Flurry Knox also, (out of Tyan Traveller's Joy) and is what I would say a good mover. They really move like horses, not ponies. All of Wildwych's foals that I've seen are very, very correct and that is something else that is so classy that I love about them.

Little Wildwych Sassy Little Blue is by Flurry Knox also, but she's a half-bred by a pony mom. She's a really spectacular mover! She's like a little cat. She's smaller than Pixie or Scarlet so I'm hoping to get her going in harness.

OP, I would definitely look at Mary's Wildwych ponies too if you have a chance. They are absolute top quality. IMHO, Mary is a gifted breeder. She's also a wonderful person to deal with!

Hope I didn't make anyone too sick with my Connemara ad!!! :winkgrin:

[snm]

I bred and own Art's first son, Rocky. He's out of a 15.2 TB mare. Rocky has been a joy to be around since the day he was born. He's kind and very smart. In fact, I recently had to decide which horse (out of six) to keep for myself as my ultimate equine partner. I chose Rocky because of his temperment, his carriage, and his potential. I'm very happy with my decision. Now, if we can just shorten three years down to a few weeks so I can ride him I'd be happier.

[goodpony]

Cheerful1--you are absolutely right Pixie is a 3/4 sibling to my Eclipse. Roscrea and her offspring are among my favorite ponies in the US. Roscreas daughter Widlwych Dreamtime is my Eclipse's mother. Our Eclipse is currently schooling third level movements including clean changes and our plan is to continue to move through the levels with him in both Dressage and Combined Training. He has a new young rider this season and will go into his first real training situation this friday---we are very excited. We amateur owners have done our best to bring him along by ourselves and in the best way we know how---alas we are not professionals, nor can we 'really' afford full training with a BNT. Still he's been a great experience for us and is producing some lovely offspring including the IDSHA/USEA national high scoring two year old Future Event Horse--a real feather in his cap for such a young stallion. He is also the only purebred Connemara stallion in the North America to earn his warmblood approvals through the traditional Inspection/Performance Testing Route--which he did in 2007. I have told Mary over and over again that she should have Flurry lifetime recorded with the USEF so that credit is given where credit is due. I do know she was listed among the USEF leading breeders of Dressage Horses (or rather ponies) in 2009.

What people may not realize is that Flurries mother Oxenholm Tiffany is the Daughter of Ardnisillagh Treasure---Treasure in turn was the dam of numerous enormously successful stallion sons/daughters who competed with unbelievable success in both Dressage and Combined training. The Sire of Oxenholm Tiffany (Rory Ruadh (IRE) became an Elite Stallion in Denmark and later Sweden and was an approved Danish Sports Pony stallion as well as an Approved Connemara Stallion. If you look at the Connemaras who have competed at the FEI level in Europe--and look at the breeding of those ponies--one match really stands out: Rory Ruadh x Ardnisillagh Treasure. Oxenholm Gideon (Oxenholm Godot x Ardnisillagh Treasure) also had success as a sire of Dressage Ponies before leaving Denmark for Australia--he left behind at least one daughter who was a very successful dressage pony at the European Championship Level---though her name escapes me at the moment. Gideon is the sire of Roscrea :) who is Pixies Mom and Eclipses Grandma.

[mbm]

I bred and own Art's first son, Rocky. He's out of a 15.2 TB mare. Rocky has been a joy to be around since the day he was born. He's kind and very smart. In fact, I recently had to decide which horse (out of six) to keep for myself as my ultimate equine partner. I chose Rocky because of his temperment, his carriage, and his potential. I'm very happy with my decision. Now, if we can just shorten three years down to a few weeks so I can ride him I'd be happier.

would love to see pics!

[dr j]

Lot's of good advice here. Your best bet is to go and look. Lots of talented Connemaras out there. Fortunately there is lots of talent that is unfortunately spread out across the country.

Goodpony is a great West Coast Contact. After that if you have a chance to get to one of the shows in which they will have a decent entry, I would try. Especially if you think you want a purebred mare/filly. The Midwest show in July should have a nice entry as will the Region III show in VA the next weekend. A trip to VA is never a bad idea for the Connemara lover as that is where the largest populations are...

The Region I show in early August ( in Vermont) is also a great show.. with lots of performers.

Aladdin's Denver is the stallion that comes to my mind as far as consistency- his offspring are excellent performers across the board IMHO. Certainly a known quantity- esp for eventing.

Art's babies are "yet" to come..... I think this will be his first year for purebred babies. His babies should be big. We are expecting a purebred by him in a few short months, the foal is already spoken for....... but we are really looking forward to his/her arrival.

I have not have the pleasure of seeing some of these stallions in person- which I really like to do before commenting much more but just about every stallion mentioned in this thread is likely to produce a very nice prospect.

I wish I had fillies to sell right now! I have been building my broodmare band and now I have to get to it and breed them!!

Here's a link to our farm' facebook page with lots of Connemara eye candy.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Leetonia-OH/Cool-Springs-Farm/251196806403

I will direct you to my little chestnut mare's photo album. She is 13.1 ( not a smidgen bigger) and the rider in the one photo is 5'9" tall. I think they look amazing together and epitomize the look of a big horse in a small package. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Leetonia-OH/Cool-Springs-Farm/251196806403#!/photo.php?pid=3353572&id=251196806403

You did ask about importing...... honestly- you will find more performing ponies in this country than you will abroad ( at least from Europe) - you should have no trouble finding what you need right here at home.

[ClassAction]

I'm not trying to hijack the thread but I've been riding two ponies Gloves Achillea and Gloves Maire. I'm assuming that "Gloves" is their line?

[snm]

would love to see pics!

I'm not sure how to post a picture. Kinda new to this whole forum/board thing. But, there are quite a few on the website you can see.
http://bookendfarm.com/Foals.htm

[Cloverbarley]

I was given my first Connemara x TB about 38 years ago and she was an amazing pony. This pony won pretty much every single class I ever entered her in; and over a wide range of disciplines. Connemara crosses are such versatile creatures with the most delightful faces and superb compact bodies with a superb backend which gives them a real spring for jumping. My next ConnXtb was given to me 35 years ago so I ran for years competing both of them. Then I moved onto Hanoverians and Danish Warmbloods. I enjoyed them but always had the hankering to get back to the Connies so I did and bought a 16 hand dun ConnXtb and once again, he was a truly wonderful horse. I sold him when I moved continents, however I did bring one Connemara with me - my daughters pony which I bought for her when she was 1 year old. We still have our old girl now and my daughter still lavishes the same love on her, but with the pony being semi-retired now, the speedy fun my daughter has is now with her QH youngsters, mainly due to the sparseness of Connemaras available.

I also moved to AQHAs, again because they are available and now after a few years of being involved with them, I actually really do like them. I do have a beautiful small TB mare though, that I may consider breeding to a Connemara stallion at some point in the future. We'll see. I'm on a different scene right at this moment but I would like to return to this cross which I know is a consistently fabulous one.

[Sassenach]

I'm not trying to hijack the thread but I've been riding two ponies Gloves Achillea and Gloves Maire. I'm assuming that "Gloves" is their line?

*Gloves would be Eddie Madden's breeding.

Owner/breeder of the (only) 3 time Supreme Champoin at Clifden (Connemara World Show) Gloves Misty who is in turn the dam of Gurteen Misty who is the dam of the all time winner ever in Clifden (10 or 11 Class wins I think we've all lost count at this time as well as being 2 time Supreme Champion) Coral Misty.

Our mare *Catherine's Pride is a daughter of Coral Misty's full brother Gurteen Paddy.

[goodpony]

I'm not trying to hijack the thread but I've been riding two ponies Gloves Achillea and Gloves Maire. I'm assuming that "Gloves" is their line?

May I ask how old Achillea is because her daughter Wellsprings Wakerobin produced a filly foal by our Eclipse last season and I believe at the time Robin was 18 or more (for some reason I thought she was 20).
here is video of Achillea's grand daughter :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxxnu380-hY&feature=player_embedded

Robin has produced a number of winners at her regional show.

[mbm]

I'm not sure how to post a picture. Kinda new to this whole forum/board thing. But, there are quite a few on the website you can see.
http://bookendfarm.com/Foals.htm

oh! I had already found him on my web searches... he is drool worthy!

[ClassAction]

May I ask how old Achillea is because her daughter Wellsprings Wakerobin produced a filly foal by our Eclipse last season and I believe at the time Robin was 18 or more (for some reason I thought she was 20).
here is video of Achillea's grand daughter :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxxnu380-hY&feature=player_embedded

Robin has produced a number of winners at her regional show.

Oh so cute! Lea is now 26 but she has no idea she's supposed to be old. Just this afternoon we went on a trail ride that included some serious unscheduled gallops!

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v650/intelligentopus/Clean%20Lea/?action=view&current=IMG_0090.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v650/intelligentopus/Clean%20Lea/?action=view&current=IMG_0092.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v650/intelligentopus/Clean%20Lea/?action=view&current=IMG_0098.jpg

[goodpony]

ClassAction---that just made my day! Thank you for sharing your update on Achillea--so good to know she is feeling spry at 26 :)

[ClassAction]

ClassAction---that just made my day! Thank you for sharing your update on Achillea--so good to know she is feeling spry at 26 :)

Any more recent photos/video of Adare? She's lovely!

(And just what I'd expect of any of Lea's descendants, really feisty looking!)

[goodpony]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5mJHvljVJc
Here she is...dont know if there is more recent video---this looks like she is still with mom.

[ClassAction]

SO cute. Greying out too. Do Robin or her babies have Lea's wondrous ability to shed dirt?

[goodpony]

I dunno about Robin or her filly but mine sure do--especially right now in 'mud' season. Did you know there is a very good show jumping pony in Europe that is from this same dam line?
There is quite a bit of 'news' relating to Poetic Justice and his offspring in this Article....I can't remember how Achillea is related to him--if they are half siblings or full siblings.

http://www.connemarapony.org/documents/swedish_news090402.pdf

Incidentally Rolls Royce who is mentioned at the beginning of the article is by Rory Ruadh--who I mentioned earlier in this thread. I cant remember the breeding of Lotus (oops says right there in the article by Rolls Royce) though and All Breeds is doing some kind of maintenance.

[erinwillow]

Just to add to the discussion and give some breadth to the lines out there competing in Europe and represented here in the States, check out the influence of the Mountain Lad line through Thunderbolt,

Here is a link to champion Chiltern Thunderburst http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/chiltern+thunderburst
in Germany and bred by Pat LYne of Combs Cottage England, breeder of our stallion's sire (Chiltern colm)--Thunderburst and Colm share the same dam, ECBS supreme mare Chiltern Gazelle :winkgrin: not to mention Thunderbolt through his dam :-),

http://www.connemara-pony.de/CPV_Homepage/cpv_web/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=168%3Achiltern-thunderburst&catid=71%3Ahengste&Itemid=89&lang=de

Then there's his son, Rory Rasputin, who is also a great jumper, http://www.irishpony.com/assets/uploads/imgsta16.jpg


The OP may have been asking about dressage ponies but I simply must give a shout out to the breeds jumping ability and their successes in that area :winkgrin:

[goodpony]

Hi erin, I agree connemaras are especially well known for there jumping talent.

http://www.jumpingvideo.com/scripts/liste_etalons.php

there are several good videos on this site that are Connemara Stallions show jumping including:

Poetic Justice (Ballydonaugh Cassanova x Gloves Misty) who is a full brother to Gloves Achillea--who was mentioned above.

Rasmus (Diamond rum x Oxenholm Tenderly by Oxenholm Godot/Ardnisillagh Treasure :))

Dexter Leam Pondi (Leam Finnegan x White Granite by Marble)--one of my all time favorites not only for his type but his superb athleticism.

Gentle Dancer (Coosheen Thyme x Gentle Cloud by Village Boy)

There are of course many others and I think if one looks close enough we probably have representatives of at least some of these lines here in the US like Gloves Achillea already mentioned above.

[mbm]

omg! goodpony that site is great! and Poetic Justice is nice! the way he moves is just super! nice and loose and rhythmic. i loved the fact he was lunging perfectly without a line :) and his daughter(son?) ..... all i can say is holy smokes batman!

[goodpony]

There is one other website that is probably one of the best places on the internet to study the breed in pictures and that is Foto-Job--pictures are by no means a substitute for actually visiting with breeders and owners---but I could spend hours on this site just looking at the Clifden Photos. You have to use the drop down menus to the left to navigate but there is a LOT to look at---I also love that the photographer has listed the breeding of nearly all the ponies.


Foto-Job (http://www.foto-job.com/shop/shop/USER_ARTIKEL_HANDLING_AUFRUF.php?darstellen=1&kategorie_0=3800&kategorie_name_0=2009&kategorie_1=4674&kategorie_name_1=Clifden+Show&kategorie_2=4708&kategorie_name_2=Thursday&kategorie_3=4674&kategorie_name_3=in-hand&level=4&Kategorie_ID=4674&hat_mehr_ukats=true&update_dropdown=true&PEPPERSESS=o5lcbcqnt3emo82r61221s2q8g8kus9a)

If you are really good you can almost predict the breeding of the ponies from the photos.

[ClassAction]

Wow that daughter of Poetic Justice jumps just like her "aunt", Gloves Achillea. Flat out if possible and can jump anything cantering sideways up to it.

[goodpony]

It just occured to me that the pedigree of Poetic Justice is a very good example of the so called "magic nick"--- Carna Dun/Carna Bobby.....very good performance breeding.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/poetic+justice3

it occurs again on the sires side of Rasmus
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rasmus5

Gentle Dancer looks like mostly Carna Bobby but maybe Jess could shed some light on the "washing soda" female family.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/gentle+dancer3


Dexter Leam Pondi

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dexter+leam+pondi

Is again Carna Bobby top and bottom :)

[Sassenach]

It just occured to me that the pedigree of Poetic Justice is a very good example of the so called "magic nick"--- Carna Dun/Carna Bobby.....very good performance breeding.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/poetic+justice3

it occurs again on the sires side of Rasmus
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rasmus5

Gentle Dancer looks like mostly Carna Bobby but maybe Jess could shed some light on the "washing soda" female family.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/gentle+dancer3


Dexter Leam Pondi

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dexter+leam+pondi

Is again Carna Bobby top and bottom :)

The Washing Soda mare line (with daughters Persil and Rinso and other similarly themed names) was on my list of articles to be published in the ACPS mag (before my computer crashed and wiped all my files permanently as well as taking my pedigree program that made it so easy to do research) - the Rinso son Robber Boy is one of the all-time sires of performance ponies in France (EZ can you shed more light?)

It's a very good line of performance ponies. Wish I hadn't lost all my notes on it :(

Incidentally John Keaney of Blue Rock Farm has a mare from that mareline - *Laurin of Rosscon she's pure performance breeding with Rosenaharley Laughris as her sire and Village Boy as her broodmaresire. She was 2007 Midwest Connemara Pony Supreme Champion - lovely lovely Connemara type and movement all in one package.

[erinwillow]

goodpony,

*so* true about the Carna Dun/Carna Bobby nick. . Laura Balding, breeder of our ICCPS Inspected and Approved mare Tre Awain Miss Muffet was the first to clue us in on this years ago. . and, I have been able to witness the blend first hand not only with Muffet's sons but with our new filly Queen of Granada, http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/willows+queen+of+granada who moves like she is floating on clouds!! :winkgrin: She really is that efficient and graceful. Maybe that is why her sire, Fergus of Big Bear Farm is an all out FEI and ACPS Shamrock Award Winner-- Neat stuff :D

[mbm]

you gals(?) are great!

I spent hours on the Foto site a few days back at the suggestion of Jess. I would pick a few from each class that appealed to me then see if they made it - interestingly of the horse i chose the lines that i was consistent in pickin gout were =Monahanstown, and Fredericksminde - and Moy Hazy Cove (if i remember that correctly)

so, i have a good eye, but definitely have a type that appeals to me. Now, it is just refining and finding something that appeals to me with what it takes to be a dressage pony for upper levels (ie 4th +) - i know i need a good mind, willingness to work, a back that swings, and hopefully nice horse like gaits.

are there any Connemara breeders that specifically breed for dressage and or eventing / jumping ?

[mbm]

btw: Jess - did you take your computer to those guys that can pull old data off crashed discs? might be worth a try.....

[Sassenach]

btw: Jess - did you take your computer to those guys that can pull old data off crashed discs? might be worth a try.....

:( nope totally fried and unable to get anything back. And the program I used for a pedigree database had all the files eaten also.

The Irish Connemara Pony Society is slooowly getting its pedigree info/bloodlines put up on the site into a database and hoping to someday have it be a one-stop site for every Connemara pony worldwide (incorporating all the other society's studbooks etc).

I did spend a bunch of time attempting to add ponies and fill in the gaps of bloodlines on Allbreed (Summer-long project) so *crossing fingers* as long as the pedigrees on allbreed weren't tampered with since I set them up they should be accurate.

[goodpony]

Thats super---with respect to Monaghstown, Fredrikesminde and Moy Hazy Cove---I think there are representatives here in the US that carry one version or another of the lines you like---keep in mind that Fredrikesminde truly made its mark after inheriting many of the Oxenholm Ponies (especially the mares) when the Danish Stud disbanded. Also there are quite a few different versions of the Monaghstown breeding---though I think some of their best ones come from April Star. As far as I know there is only one Moy Hazy Cove :).

[Life O'Reilly]

Reading this thread has been very exciting for me :)

I have been breeding Irish Sport Horses for about 10 years now and rode Connemara ponies when I was living in the UK for a short time as a young girl. It's those ponies that led me to try the Irish Sport Horse (it was really just an Irish thing for me) in my twenties and I became hooked on Irish horses from that moment forward.

In a slight twist and through unforseen circumstances and happenstance, have now, as someone approaching her 40's gone back to ponies and have recently purchased a 3yo purebred Connemara colt. It was literally love at first sight with Brennan - the moment I saw him I just knew I had to have him. I had just sold my beautiful Clydesdale stallion and gelded my ISH stallion and had not planned on bringing another entire horse into the breeding program but fate has a funny way of changing plans, doesn't it.

Anyway, he's here and let me just say that he's everything I had hoped for AND a bag of chips :D

Because his purchase was quite sudden and unexpected, I did not have any time to really deeply research his pedigree. I bought him on type and, because he will be marketed mainly to non Connemara mare owners (the gene pool in NZ is particularly small and Brennan is related to quite a few of the purebred mares in the country) his pedigree, whilst of interest, was not of the greatest importance. However, I do hope to put him forward for Class 1 inspection later this year (he is eligible through sire and dam) and may collect from him so wondered if any of you die hard Connemara breeders would care to comment on his pedigree (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/crossiebeg+brennan)?

Here are a handful of photos - I hope I am not hijacking and as technically he is not available to the OP or anyone outside of NZ, I do hope this is not classed as advertising. I just want to show him off because I think he is gorgeous and I absolutely adore the breed!

Brennan without his extensive forelock which totally covers his face! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Loopylou/Brennan/IMG_2233.jpg)
Brennan taking a corner (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Loopylou/Brennan/IMG_2162.jpg)
Brennan with an ugly backdrop (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Loopylou/Brennan/trottingshed.jpg)
Brennan headed my way (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Loopylou/Brennan/IMG_2270.jpg)
Brennan and all his hair! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Loopylou/Brennan/IMG_2296.jpg)

[goodpony]

omg I was just looking at his video---he's so CUTE! he has tons of super performance relatives including Will Ya Love me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GATEhJ2sqDo) who shares the same female family :)

he is also pretty closely related to my two year old: Celtic Tiger (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/redbuds+celtic+tiger)

[Sassenach]

Thats super---with respect to Monaghstown, Fredrikesminde and Moy Hazy Cove---I think there are representatives here in the US that carry one version or another of the lines you like---keep in mind that Fredrikesminde truly made its mark after inheriting many of the Oxenholm Ponies (especially the mares) when the Danish Stud disbanded. Also there are quite a few different versions of the Monaghstown breeding---though I think some of their best ones come from April Star. As far as I know there is only one Moy Hazy Cove :).

There's a couple Moy Hazy Cove stallions in the US:

My stallion - *The Quietman
*Kingstown Laddie
*Rattle N Snap Laddie Boy

and *Kingstown Joey was standing in the US but was gelded and later put down due to cancer I believe :( he was from an especially fantastic mareline (son of the legendary mare Silver Fort)

So the line is pretty well represented here in the states. But I guess you can figure out who's my favorite :winkgrin:

[Life O'Reilly]

Sassenach, your website link does not seem to work for me - I would love to have a look at your horses, is it a glitch at my end?

[Sassenach]

Sassenach, your website link does not seem to work for me - I would love to have a look at your horses, is it a glitch at my end?

the website has been buggy lately

Here is the direct link to his page: http://www.windyislesfarms.com/stallions.html

[poltroon]

Thats super---with respect to Monaghstown, Fredrikesminde and Moy Hazy Cove---I think there are representatives here in the US that carry one version or another of the lines you like---keep in mind that Fredrikesminde truly made its mark after inheriting many of the Oxenholm Ponies (especially the mares) when the Danish Stud disbanded. Also there are quite a few different versions of the Monaghstown breeding---though I think some of their best ones come from April Star. As far as I know there is only one Moy Hazy Cove :).

It seems to me we have several Moy Hazy Coves around... My mare's sire, *Kingstown Joe, is deceased, but he left some daughters and a stallion son, Trout Ranch Malarkey. There's Sassenach's *The Quietman. *Rattle 'n Snap Laddie Boy. It seems to me there's at least one other. I remember one day playing the stallion game and being annoyed that that particular day I kept finding ponies I liked only to realize they were her uncles. ;)

[poltroon]

are there any Connemara breeders that specifically breed for dressage and or eventing / jumping ?

I would say there are many who do, perhaps more who do than don't. There are many Connemaras who have been successful eventers at Training/Prelim (keeping in mind that most of these have been under 15 hands) with a few going Intermediate and Advanced. My mare, Stonybrook Bridey O'Shea, comes from a line of serious performance ponies on both the male and female side. Stonybrook (in Napa) no longer keeps broodmares, but their stallion *Canal Laurinston did 4th level dressage and is still getting outside mares. Cashel's Rock of Ages is in Southern California, and he's competed to PSG IIRC. Wildwych Eclipse, who you've met, impressed me greatly by toting around his amateur owner fairly effortlessly at 2nd level, and I've admired other Wildwych ponies as well.

It seems like most of the breeders in Virginia are concentrating also on performance, though I haven't seen those ponies in person.

But for the most part, it has always seemed to me that breeders attracted to Connemaras are attracted to them because they like ponies who perform.

[mbm]

omg I was just looking at his video---he's so CUTE! he has tons of super performance relatives including Will Ya Love me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GATEhJ2sqDo) who shares the same female family :)

he is also pretty closely related to my two year old: Celtic Tiger (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/redbuds+celtic+tiger)

now *that* is a nice pony! super power in the hind end, lots of sit, and in the dressage , while i dont like the up/down knees, the engagement of the hind end and the over all picture, is very nice!

[mbm]

Poltroon, i was really trying to ask about breeders specifically breeding for dressage but then didn't want to leave others out ;)

apologies to those that do breed for sport :)

[dr j]

Poltroon, i was really trying to ask about breeders specifically breeding for dressage but then didn't want to leave others out ;)

apologies to those that do breed for sport :)

While there have been a few breeders that have concentrated solely on dressage, you have to remember that if there is one particular talent associated with a Connemara, it's their jumping ability. While I am sure there is an exception somewhere that proves the rule, the basic premise is "if it's a Connemara, it can jump." Period. It's one of the things that draws people to the breed. So while some ponies have been pointed strictly to work on the flat, dollars to doughnuts, they can jump ( well) also.

That propensity attracts a lot of people to the breed, thus a bigger bias toward the "sport" pony side rather than just dressage.

[goodpony]

Will Ya Love me is featured on the cover of the most recent edition of the ACPS magazine and was also featured in the Chronicle of the Horse recently--he is 14.3 purebred pony owned and shown by Courtney Sendak and was I believe the national High Scorer in Eventing for 2009--currently going intermediate** and I think I read recently he is getting ready to go advanced this season. I love that he looks like a pony and goes like a horse :) Super promotion for the breed. His pedigree is really interesting too---Sired by Grange Finn Sparrow (who was all pony) and out of Lady Doreen.


From the same female family we have

The successful stallion:
HESSELBJERGGARD JUSTICE (http://www.reimanns-rosskur.de/assets/images/Justice-2.jpg), C 2000 by PILGAARDS SAMMY JR
Dressage Ponies
MONKHOLM COLOONEY (http://www.smaragaid.de/10_Munkholm_Cooloney_Foto_DEN.jpg), C by ARDNASILLAGH OFLAHERTY (http://www.smaragaid.de/Ardnasillagh-O_Flaherty-DK.jpg) 1973

MUNKHOLM COBBERGATE (http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:KsEIsdznVLerIM:http://www.smaragaid.de/10_Munkholm_Cobbergate_2002-04_Foto_Ralf_Klodt.jpg), C 1984 by ARDNASILLAGH OFLAHERTY 1973

I believe Cobbergate and Colooney represented Denmark as part of the Danish Pony Dressage team

And I think there are more successful ponies in this family--these are just a few stand outs.

I included the sire of Cobbergate and Colooney only because their sire is part of the family of Ardnisillagh Treasure---
here are her offspring.

Treasures Offspring (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?h=ardnasillagh+treasure&g=5&query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&done=y&inbred=Standard&x2=n&username=&password=&x=0&y=0)

If there were a line of ponies stemming from one family that is dressage breeding I would say it was Treasures family...to read more about this family take a look at this---Roundstone Lass (http://www.connemaraponny.org/mares/rlass.htm)

[mbm]

While there have been a few breeders that have concentrated solely on dressage, you have to remember that if there is one particular talent associated with a Connemara, it's their jumping ability. While I am sure there is an exception somewhere that proves the rule, the basic premise is "if it's a Connemara, it can jump." Period. It's one of the things that draws people to the breed. So while some ponies have been pointed strictly to work on the flat, dollars to doughnuts, they can jump ( well) also.

That propensity attracts a lot of people to the breed, thus a bigger bias toward the "sport" pony side rather than just dressage.

yes, i totally understand - they are amazing jumpers! ;)

it is typical of me that i will pick a breed that excels at something (ie jumping) and then want to find individuals that will excel at something else(dressage).

hopefully they are "sporty" enough to be able to meet my needs.... (thinking yes)... if not i guess i will have to start eventing again! :)

[dr j]

yes, i totally understand - they are amazing jumpers! ;)

it is typical of me that i will pick a breed that excels at something (ie jumping) and then want to find individuals that will excel at something else(dressage).

hopefully they are "sporty" enough to be able to meet my needs.... (thinking yes)... if not i guess i will have to start eventing again! :)


Certainly should meet your needs! Here is a one that should inspire you.... this is Jake... Shammer Jake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y75aYhJbvQE

Jake is just as cool as he appears. He is now in NY state.

[dr j]

Jake is by Ballinaboy Eamon out of a Grange mare... in fact a sister to Grange Finn Sparrow as I recall.

I can't find his pedigree right now.. Jess or Lisa might be able to chime in on that...

[dr j]

PS. He is 15.1

[poltroon]

yes, i totally understand - they are amazing jumpers! ;)

it is typical of me that i will pick a breed that excels at something (ie jumping) and then want to find individuals that will excel at something else(dressage).

hopefully they are "sporty" enough to be able to meet my needs.... (thinking yes)... if not i guess i will have to start eventing again! :)

Whenever I'm having a dressage issue with my pony, I've found that a small jumping school (2' is fine) fixes a lot of issues. :D

[Sassenach]

Jake is by Ballinaboy Eamon out of a Grange mare... in fact a sister to Grange Finn Sparrow as I recall.

I can't find his pedigree right now.. Jess or Lisa might be able to chime in on that...

Jake's dam is Grange Deirdre Sparrow (*Grange Bobbing Sparrow x Grey Rock Lucky Star) her sire is half-brother to Grange Finn Sparrow (same dam).

Jake's full sister Shammer Lady Sparrow was a dressage pony and broodmare at Grey Haven Farm

[goodpony]

There it is again the magic nick: Carna Bobby/Carna Dun seen in the pedigree of Ballinaboy Eamon (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ballinaboy+eamon)

Interesting to see Island King in there as well :)

Eamon comes from this dam line: Retreat (http://www.connemaraponny.org/mares/retreat.htm)

[Sassenach]

There it is again the magic nick: Carna Bobby/Carna Dun seen in the pedigree of Ballinaboy Eamon (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ballinaboy+eamon)

Interesting to see Island King in there as well :)

Eamon comes from this dam line: Retreat (http://www.connemaraponny.org/mares/retreat.htm)


Eamon was one I wish I had been able to use before he died. I love, love the Killyreagh Kim (& Loobeen Larry) line from Carna Bobby in particular. Probably my favorite Carna Bobby sireline is the one through Killyreagh Kim and his sons - Loobeen Larry, Windy Day etc. (I am allowed to be biased aren't I? ;))

Another son of Loobeen Larry that I like a lot:

http://www.connemara-kraemer.de/english_version/ellarry_english.htm

[snm]

oh! I had already found him on my web searches... he is drool worthy!

Thanks! I'm pretty fond of him. :)

[goodpony]

There is also Annilaun Oscar (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/annilaun+oscar)

Though we've not heard much of him lately....

That Cashel Kate...sure shows up a lot through her kids :)

Ballydonaugh Kate
Ballydonaugh Rob
The Admiral
Sticky

[tuppysmom]

We had a wonderful stallion who competed in eventing at prelim, jumpers at 4 ft, and at second level dressage in his spare time.

He had an Irish Inspection and won the An Tostal Trophy one year. He had a stunning disposition and was ridden around the farm, by our daughter, bareback with a halter.

Sadly, he didn't see many purebred mares.

[mbm]

i love the internet!

Connemara dressage ponies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZW8yj4_w94

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA9HkzfKV9k&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAwzS_M5no

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guHkhEGLVm8&feature=related

[goodpony]

I dunno who this guy is but I thought he was real cute: Higgy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUpOvGB2CFU

This guy too Italic Des Landes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO6SjZ0ZJYE

[mbm]

I have noticed that there is a lot of TB blood in some of the US lines and also it is there but further back in the IRE lines

what percentage can a pony be TB (or arab) and still be considered a "purebred" connemara?


Many of the sport ponies linked to here look slimmer, is this due to the work, or are they in fact a less stocky type build?

an unrelated question: i have noticed in many of the boy pics, that they have a "relaxed" look about them - aka they look slightly dropped. is this a normal thing for Connemana colts/geldings/stallions?

[mbm]

Italic Des Landes is awesome!

[goodpony]

an unrelated question: i have noticed in many of the boy pics, that they have a "relaxed" look about them - aka they look slightly dropped. is this a normal thing for Connemana colts/geldings/stallions?

I hadnt noticed---but do you mean they look like they are capitalizing on a little free "advertising"? Or do you mean something else?

The minimum requirement Purebred Registration is two registered Purebred parents and one Registered Purebred Parent for Part Bred Registration in the US. As far as I know there is no Pedigree Requirement for registration (too much TB or too much Arab). If you chose to inspect your ponies with the ACPS you may find you run into problems with respect to type (too TBish or Araby Looking or not enough bone or substance)---very few stallions pass on a first run. For example, In the year we had Eclipse inspected 13 stallions were put forward and only 3 passed. Of those three Eclipse was the only one to pass on his first attempt and is one of the youngest to do so on a first try---the other two were back for re-inspection. Of the inspections I've attended and there have been a few---I would say the ACPS is probably among the most selective/critical or whatever you want to call it--particularly with colts. Mare inspections are somewhat less stringent.

There is no inspection requirement (inspections are optional)---as long as you have two purebred registered parents---you can be whatever type you like and still be eligible for purebred papers.

[poltroon]

I have noticed that there is a lot of TB blood in some of the US lines and also it is there but further back in the IRE lines

what percentage can a pony be TB (or arab) and still be considered a "purebred" connemara?


Many of the sport ponies linked to here look slimmer, is this due to the work, or are they in fact a less stocky type build?

an unrelated question: i have noticed in many of the boy pics, that they have a "relaxed" look about them - aka they look slightly dropped. is this a normal thing for Connemana colts/geldings/stallions?

As late as the 1940's, outside stallions were approved by the Irish Connemara society to improve the native ponies. These included Little Heaven (TB) and Mayboy (ID). Arabian and Welsh were also used.

I would say there was a time in US breeding where the mini-TB look was highly prized and selected for. The imported stallion *Texas Hope is the source of the TB blood here, by the TB stallion Little Heaven. He has the most offspring of any Connemara stallion in America. For example, the famous Custasha's Cashel Rock is one of his sons.

You can read more about him here: http://www.dawnofpromisefarm.com/texas_hope.htm

Little Heaven was a great sire of athletes and produced amazing jumpers, including the very famous Little Squire. The great sire Carna Dun was also one of his sons.

In the last 20 years, there has been more interest in native type among US Connemara breeders, and more emphasis away from the TB look, while maintaining the sport athleticism. The ACPS inspection program is part of this.

At this point, even in the 'hotter' lines, the TB is getting pretty far back just due to the passage of time. My own pony is 3/64th TB, so the influence is pretty diluted. Her grandmother, Balius Kerry Blue, had "a lot" of TB, but even there it was only 1/8.

[poltroon]

I have also learned in the last few years how much the slim vs. stocky appearance is a result of groceries.... :D

[Sassenach]

As late as the 1940's, outside stallions were approved by the Irish Connemara society to improve the native ponies. These included Little Heaven (TB) and Mayboy (ID). Arabian and Welsh were also used.

I would say there was a time in US breeding where the mini-TB look was highly prized and selected for. The imported stallion *Texas Hope is the source of the TB blood here, by the TB stallion Little Heaven. He has the most offspring of any Connemara stallion in America. For example, the famous Custasha's Cashel Rock is one of his sons.

You can read more about him here: http://www.dawnofpromisefarm.com/texas_hope.htm

Little Heaven was a great sire of athletes and produced amazing jumpers, including the very famous Little Squire. The great sire Carna Dun was also one of his sons.

In the last 20 years, there has been more interest in native type among US Connemara breeders, and more emphasis away from the TB look, while maintaining the sport athleticism. The ACPS inspection program is part of this.

At this point, even in the 'hotter' lines, the TB is getting pretty far back just due to the passage of time. My own pony is 3/64th TB, so the influence is pretty diluted. Her grandmother, Balius Kerry Blue, had "a lot" of TB, but even there it was only 1/8.

While outside blood was introduced in Ireland - in the case of Little Heaven especially it was monitored. I remember reading somewhere that he was limited to only 20 or 25 Connemara mares a year + with the Inspection process in Ireland type was a consideration.

In the US there was no such Inspection process up until fairly recently in the early years of the society yes, but as the breed spread geography proved to make it a difficulty).

So in the US-bred/line Connemaras there is a MUCH higher percentage of TB blood and also a lack of type - though this is slowly being rectified.

re skinny vs. stockier Connemaras:

From the Connemara Pony Breeders Society (Ireland)

Type: Compact, well-balanced riding type with good depth and substance and good heart room, standing on short legs, covering a lot of ground.

Body: Body should be deep, with strong back, some length permissable but should be well-ribbed up and with strong loin.

[poltroon]

I would say, though, Sassenach, that it seems to me that in America that there was a deliberate choice for many years for the more TB type, and a lot of linebreeding to *Texas Hope specifically to establish that finer type. CW Anderson's books, much as I love them, singing the praises of the Connemara as a "miniature Thoroughbred" are probably a large part of why that happened, attracting people to the breed who wanted small but hardy TBs, so they picked those out and bred them as Connemaras. And, with most of the market at the time being for pony hunters, where TB type was prized in the 70's, the economics favored that as well. It's taken some time to bend people back towards the true Irish type.

I see a dramatic change in American stock from the 70's and 80's, when I first became attracted to Connemaras, and today.

[poltroon]

By the way, I'm not sure if anyone here can do anything with this, but I noticed today that the All Breed Pedigree record for *Rocky (the Clifden champion out of Silver Fort) has gotten contaminated with information and a picture pertaining to Custusha's Cashel Rock. (Wasn't *Rocky grey?)

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rocky6

[goodpony]

From the CPBS Website which I think is the one that most top International breeders subscribe too. Keeping in mind that in some countries Inspections are still required..Australia being one example.

BREED STANDARDS

Height The height of th Breeding Connemara Pony is 128cms to 148cms. (12.2 to 14.2 Hands High).
Colours Grey, black, Bay, Brown, Dun with occasional Roan & Chestnut, Palamino, & Dark Eyed Cream.
Type Compact, well-balanced riding type with good depth and substance and good heart room, standing on short legs, covering a lot of ground.
Head Well balanced pony head of medium length with good width between large kindly eyes. Pony ears, well defined cheekbone jaw relatively deep but not coarse.
Front Head well-set onto neck. Crest should not be over developed. Neck not set too low. Good length of rein. Well-defined withers, good sloping shoulders.
Body Body should be deep, with strong back, some length permissable but should be well-ribbed up and with strong loin.
Limbs Good length and strength in forearm, well-defined knees and short cannons, with flat bone measuring 18cms (minimum 7") to 21cms . Elbows should be free. Pasterns of medium length, feet well shaped, of medium size, hard and level.
Hind Qtrs Strong and Muscular with some length, well-developed second thighs (Gaskin) and strong low-set hocks.
Movement Movement free easy and true, without undue knee action, but active and covering ground.

I personally love the part about pony ears :)

[Sassenach]

By the way, I'm not sure if anyone here can do anything with this, but I noticed today that the All Breed Pedigree record for *Rocky (the Clifden champion out of Silver Fort) has gotten contaminated with information and a picture pertaining to Custusha's Cashel Rock. (Wasn't *Rocky grey?)

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rocky6

The pedigree is correct yes but the information and picture are incorrect.

http://connemaraponiesireland.com/Previous_Sales.html there's a picture of *Rocky on the Kingstown site - *Rocky is Kingstown bred but it was prior to their use of the prefix.

[Tamara in TN]

[QUOTE=goodpony;4733801] Good length and strength in forearm, well-defined knees and short cannons, with flat bone measuring 18cms (minimum 7") to 21cms .

this is my favorite part...

[erinwillow]

Jake's dam is Grange Deirdre Sparrow (*Grange Bobbing Sparrow x Grey Rock Lucky Star) her sire is half-brother to Grange Finn Sparrow (same dam).

Jake's full sister Shammer Lady Sparrow was a dressage pony and broodmare at Grey Haven Farm

Yes, and his 1/2 sister, Shammer Gypsy Queen http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/shammer+gypsy+queen
(same sire, *Ballinaboy Eamon) is here at Willow Run farm being an absolutely happy and healthy child's friend :winkgrin: In fact, many of Eamon's get are quite successful around the country. He was owned by Maureen Loughlin Abel of Okeechobee, FLorida and her prefix is Shammer. In fact, his get were the very very first Connemaras we ever met!! I had a great introduction to the breed :D

Here is her new website--she has a lovely lovely farm down in south florida where the breeze is always gentle and life a bit easier (or so it seems :-) http://tirnanogranch.com/

[erinwillow]

There it is again the magic nick: Carna Bobby/Carna Dun seen in the pedigree of Ballinaboy Eamon (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ballinaboy+eamon)

Interesting to see Island King in there as well :)

Eamon comes from this dam line: Retreat (http://www.connemaraponny.org/mares/retreat.htm)

I always liked Eamon :winkgrin: but I'm totally not biased, hee hee

[goodpony]

While outside blood was introduced in Ireland - in the case of Little Heaven especially it was monitored. I remember reading somewhere that he was limited to only 20 or 25 Connemara mares a year + with the Inspection process in Ireland type was a consideration.

In the US there was no such Inspection process up until fairly recently in the early years of the society yes, but as the breed spread geography proved to make it a difficulty).

So in the US-bred/line Connemaras there is a MUCH higher percentage of TB blood and also a lack of type - though this is slowly being rectified.

re skinny vs. stockier Connemaras:

From the Connemara Pony Breeders Society (Ireland)

Type: Compact, well-balanced riding type with good depth and substance and good heart room, standing on short legs, covering a lot of ground.

Body: Body should be deep, with strong back, some length permissable but should be well-ribbed up and with strong loin.

I wanted to add that I remember reading that the Thoroughbred and the Arabian stallions were not only used sparingly in IRE but also I think over only very typical mares. Also I think you have to remember that around that time Pony Racing was very popular--and is apparently still very popular. Obviously the thoroughbed is unrivaled for adding speed and stamina.

Here for example is a quotation from the book "A way with Horses" in the section interviewing Bobby Bolger.

"He speaks of Mares with pride and affection and stresses that breeders need to get back to the older Carna Dolly type. Carna Dolly had five foals by the thoroughbred Little Heaven, while that stallion stood with Jack Bolger in Oughterard. She had previously won both the Local Farmers Race and the Open Pony Race on the same day at Oughterad Races before breeding both Carna Bobby and another prodigious racing mare Cashel Bay.'

here is a video I found of the Omey races--the white pony looks supsiciously connemara.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azuuRwLt-j8

[Carol Ames]

What cross was Seldom Seen;):cool:?

[goodpony]

I believe they call that cross "Blood over Bone":)

[Stacie]

What about Whitewood Galway Bay? He won the ACPS
Tooreen Laddie Trophy so he must have had some significant contribution.

[Sassenach]

What about Whitewood Galway Bay? He won the ACPS
Tooreen Laddie Trophy so he must have had some significant contribution.

His two most prolific/famous sons are Concord River Roaringwater Bay & Springledge Bantry Bay (sire of Hideaway's Centerfold - the dam of Go Bragh)

[Monarch]

Carna Dolly was also by the tb Buckna.
M

[mbm]

re skinny vs. stockier Connemaras:

From the Connemara Pony Breeders Society (Ireland)

Type: Compact, well-balanced riding type with good depth and substance and good heart room, standing on short legs, covering a lot of ground.

Body: Body should be deep, with strong back, some length permissable but should be well-ribbed up and with strong loin.

ok, so looking at the videos posted of the ponies doing more upper level dressage - especially those from europe - do those look like they have enough pony type?

i couldn't really tell, given they are very fit and muscled up for dressage.

[mbm]

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ConnemaraPonies#p/u/7/grEVTNitwgk

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ConnemaraPonies#p/u/4/Q_zx8ddFpHo

cool video of the ponies at the European champs last year.

[goodpony]

Carna Dolly was also by the tb Buckna.
M

heres the kicker---

"Like his father Jack before him, Bobby believes that Carna Bobby was the result of a covering of Carna Dolly by a Thoroughbred sire, and not by Gil as registered in the Stud Book. He believes that because Carna Dolly was such a strong and substantial mare, she had passed on her native Connemara characteristics to her foals in spite of the extensive Thoroughbred element in her own breeding. With Carna Bobby his one conformation weakeness showed in his back-end going down to his hocks, a typical Thoroughbred strain in the inheritance."

JMO I also happen to agree that the mare is the foundation from which the stallion either improves or detracts. I believe this is especially true of 'bone, substance and breed type'. If improvements are to be had at all they will come from a foundation of very good mares.

[goodpony]

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ConnemaraPonies#p/u/7/grEVTNitwgk

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ConnemaraPonies#p/u/4/Q_zx8ddFpHo

cool video of the ponies at the European champs last year.

Very cool--Ive been searching for video of Molly for a while now! :) yay!

Wanted to add also that I think Molly is a better example of Connemara Pony breed type than some of the other videos we've looked at.

[mbm]

curious about the idea that a mare contributes more than 50% to a foal. If i understand genetics correctly that cant be true.

maybe some of the things that are attributed to mares ie bone, substance, etc are a more dominant gene, but it would be dominant from mare or stallion.

or at least, this is what my lay understanding of genetics says.

eta: i dont believe you can take a great mare and breed her to yucky stallion and get anything different than if those two were the exact opposite... ie: the stallion was great and the mare yucky.

i know popular horse wisdom says otherwise but i would like to see the data to back it up, cause it just doesn't add up in my pea brain :)

[mbm]

ok, as to pony type in a topsport pony. i know this might be a politically charged question, and i don't mean it that way.... but if a connemara is at the top of sport - how much does it matter re: pony traits?

would that individual be worthwhile as breeding stock based on its athletic ability alone?

[poltroon]

curious about the idea that a mare contributes more than 50% to a foal. If i understand genetics correctly that cant be true.

maybe some of the things that are attributed to mares ie bone, substance, etc are a more dominant gene, but it would be dominant from mare or stallion.

or at least, this is what my lay understanding of genetics says.

eta: i dont believe you can take a great mare and breed her to yucky stallion and get anything different than if those two were the exact opposite... ie: the stallion was great and the mare yucky.

i know popular horse wisdom says otherwise but i would like to see the data to back it up, cause it just doesn't add up in my pea brain :)

There are three points to consider:

1. Mitochondria, which are the cell's engine, are inherited solely from the egg, which is contributed by the mare. Thus, the tail-female line has more influence than the other horses in the pedigree.

2. In the case of male offspring from a mare, the foal will have an XY chromosome pair; there are more genes on an X than a Y. Traits that are on the X chromosome come solely from the dam. In horses, as far as I know, we do not have clear information about what traits are controlled on the X.

3. Since the mare raises the foal, certain aspects of nurture (behavior, quality of milk) will be more influenced by the dam.

[goodpony]

would that individual be worthwhile as breeding stock based on its athletic ability alone?

Of course! but I think you have to keep in mind that no stallion (or mare) regardless of how good is going to produce an exact zerox copy of himself--especially if poorly matched or bred to an only average mare. In my own experience I see reflections of both sire and dam and more often than not a grand dam or grand sire.

[poltroon]

ok, as to pony type in a topsport pony. i know this might be a politically charged question, and i don't mean it that way.... but if a connemara is at the top of sport - how much does it matter re: pony traits?

would that individual be worthwhile as breeding stock based on its athletic ability alone?

These are my thoughts alone, as probably the least experienced contributor on this thread.

I would say it would depend on your mare and it would depend on your breeding goals.

For a halfbred, of course, type is a secondary consideration, presuming the individual is sound.

For a mare with excellent type but wanting a little athleticism, I can see considering such a stallion... BUT, given how many stallions there are available with athleticism and type already, for such a mare, I'm not sure this would be my choice.

I would say if it was the mare with a fabulous ability but iffy type, then definitely I'd be interested in breeding this mare, particularly to a typey, athletic stallion. (My own mare comes from lines where this was the case, taking the *Texas Hope-bred eventing star to successive generations of Clifden winners.)

And of course the goal matters. In the US, without the pony jumper circuit they have in Europe, there isn't such a strong market for pony-sized ferraris. So temperament, which is part of type, is a consideration, unless you are planning to go oversize. And if you're planning to go oversize, type is generally less important.

As hunters are moving more towards warmbloods, there will likely be less pressure to create light, TB-type connemaras for pony hunters. But, obviously, if the pony hunter market is your goal, you would breed to suit it.

What we call Connemara type is important for soundness and substance and longevity and utility - it's not just aesthetics. Well, except maybe for the pony ears! :D

[mbm]

i posted this on another thread, but clearly it relates here too :)


Sex-linked Traits
Traits dependent on genes that follow the inheritance pattern of a sex chromosome.
Allele is located on the X chromosome.
Most sex-linked traits are recessive.
Because males have only one X chromosome, a male who carries a recessive allele on the X chromosome will exhibit the sex-linked condition.
Female will express the recessive condition only if she inherits two recessive alleles. Thus, her chances of inheriting and exhibiting a sex-linked condition are significantly less.
Occurrence of color blindness is much more prevalent in males then females. Color blindness is caused by a recessive trait on the X chromosome. About eight percent of the male population has a form of colorblindness, whereas the female population is less then one percent.
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Monarch]

heres the kicker---

"Like his father Jack before him, Bobby believes that Carna Bobby was the result of a covering of Carna Dolly by a Thoroughbred sire, and not by Gil as registered in the Stud Book. He believes that because Carna Dolly was such a strong and substantial mare, she had passed on her native Connemara characteristics to her foals in spite of the extensive Thoroughbred element in her own breeding. With Carna Bobby his one conformation weakeness showed in his back-end going down to his hocks, a typical Thoroughbred strain in the inheritance."

JMO I also happen to agree that the mare is the foundation from which the stallion either improves or detracts. I believe this is especially true of 'bone, substance and breed type'. If improvements are to be had at all they will come from a foundation of very good mares.

I agree with your opinion. My question has always been if type was always so important then why risk losing it if TB or the other breeds will obviously add something to the mix? 2nd question was what did they want from the TB or see in the TB that they hope to gain in the crossing? Carna Dolly was a wonderful mare but she was the product of a Conn x TB. Why breed her dam to Buckna? What were they wanting to add or should I say improve on Colleen Bawn?

I also believe blood on top.
M
Pedigree indicates what the animal should be. Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be. But performance indicates what the animal actually is. Anonymous.

[dr j]

I think one of the basic mistakes livestock breeders have made over the years is trying to balance the "good and bad" in the individual above all else.

Often breeders have that one thing that is their "thing" and they select away or towards that trait to the detriment of other desireable traits. Type can be one of those things. In our breed if I could pick one weakness overall, it would be our hindquarters. Because rear end conformation is a basic functional/conformational issue it is not related to type - so we have some extremely typey individuals who have less than stellar rear ends. The type does not over ride this basic flaw yet many mares are bred/stallions left intact because they do have excellent type despite the conformational weaknesses. So you then have your mare, who has a good rear end but is a bit lacking in type. You find a stallion with fabulous type yet is weak behind..... maybe they can balance each other out right? WRONG because that is exactly what they will do... you will get less type than the stallion and yet you have given up some of your mare's strength ie- you have something in the middle. WHile you may have improved slightly on the weakness of each parent, you have given up their strenghths. Lost more than you have gained.

Of course that makes it hard to find studs!! Rightfully so. YOu can have both and no stallion should be kept intact because he has "part" of the picture.

I have a mare that literally has more type than you can shake a stick at! IN fact her inspection form literally says "screams Connemara type". She also has excellent conformation. I have struggled to find a stallion for her, I want her to reproduce herself. Of course she is not perfect, but darn near! LOL She could actually use a little more free movement but not at the sacrifice of type. So while adding something that moved more like a TB ( anything TBy the Connemara folk like to call "quality". If you hear someone say a pony has more quality- that is what they mean. Quality (TB) vs type (Connemara traits) if that makes sense) if I give up some of my fabulous type, what is the point? I might as well have bred a half bred and gone for the great movement and the pony brain/bone etc.

There is an excellent article about breeding half-breds in the last issue of the ACPS magazine. There have also been some really great articles about using native pony blood ( esp COnnemaras) posted on this board ( from the barnmice site I think). While I am sure there could be a large debate on this, what the COnnemara adds to the half-bred is usually what is desired and not the other way around if that makes sense. TO that point, keeping a nice typey purebred Connemara population is very important.... as one of my friends said "keeping the well" - she breeds because when she felt the need to go back to the well, she wanted to know what was in it.

These are the things that rattle around in breeder's brains on cold winter nights and late winter mornings when the mud makes farm life almost unbearable!!! LOL

[poltroon]

These are the things that rattle around in breeder's brains on cold winter nights and late winter mornings when the mud makes farm life almost unbearable!!! LOL

Rattle here any time, dr j! I always glean so much from these threads.

[dr j]

My question has always been if type was always so important then why risk losing it if TB or the other breeds will obviously add something to the mix? 2nd question was what did they want from the TB or see in the TB that they hope to gain in the crossing? M
Pedigree indicates what the animal should be. Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be. But performance indicates what the animal actually is. Anonymous.

Back to the quality/type thing. If you have the opportunity, look at some pictures of some of the old mares. They had type. You can look at them and say "yep, that's a Connemara" but they had horrific conformation. Weak, long backs, poor rears, weak pasterns etc. Had good bone, pony type heads, short cannons etc and obviously had enough of functional conformation to get their specific jobs done ( carry the family to church, carry peat, have a foal every year) but they were anything but "quality". THe powers that be realized the limited gene pool needed help, needed some infusion that if added to type would make for an all around better animal. Miniscule changes in structure don't change type but can massively affect conformation and function.

[mbm]

super thread! i am learning a ton! thanks to all participating :)

[Sassenach]

I agree with your opinion. My question has always been if type was always so important then why risk losing it if TB or the other breeds will obviously add something to the mix? 2nd question was what did they want from the TB or see in the TB that they hope to gain in the crossing? Carna Dolly was a wonderful mare but she was the product of a Conn x TB. Why breed her dam to Buckna? What were they wanting to add or should I say improve on Colleen Bawn?

I also believe blood on top.
M
Pedigree indicates what the animal should be. Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be. But performance indicates what the animal actually is. Anonymous.

You have to remember the time when they were adding outside blood - the 40s, 50s - the Connemara was being exported across Europe (and to the US) and in the post-war era the horse was undergoing a change - a more riding type animal than a utility animal.

Especially in the areas the Connemara was being sent to - they didn't need a pony to bring them to church or go to the bog -they wanted a riding and performance animal.

Also the Connemara breed is quite small genetically - only 5 true remaining sire lines (yes even including the 2 non-Pony lines of Arab and TB).

So there were myriad reasons why outside blood was added: to add quality (whether it be for athleticism or conformational reasons) + genetic reasons and others.

That was also why Inspection and close regulation of the breeding of these ponies with outside blood was so important (again: Little Heaven and his son Carna Dun being limited to 20-25 mare a year).

It was to 'improve' the breed while not losing the true essential qualities that make a Connemara a Connemara and so distinct from other breeds.

[Monarch]

Back to the quality/type thing. If you have the opportunity, look at some pictures of some of the old mares. They had type. You can look at them and say "yep, that's a Connemara" but they had horrific conformation. Weak, long backs, poor rears, weak pasterns etc. Had good bone, pony type heads, short cannons etc and obviously had enough of functional conformation to get their specific jobs done ( carry the family to church, carry peat, have a foal every year) but they were anything but "quality". THe powers that be realized the limited gene pool needed help, needed some infusion that if added to type would make for an all around better animal. Miniscule changes in structure don't change type but can massively affect conformation and function.

Thank you dr j you are the first person who has ever answered my question and maybe because the answer seemed like a no brainer. It is nice to see someone say it or shall I say type it.
My personal reason for owning a connemara is the brain and not the type. I do own 2 one who is off type - horsie the 2nd has type (looks like a connemara) both are oversized. My 2nd one is more athletic than the 1st but lacks the brain of the 1st one. I bought both young both were easy to start and train but the 2nd can not handle the atmosphere at the horse shows he is a wreck untill he walks into the ring and then never puts a foot down wrong, walks out of the ring and loses it. Started showing him 3 years ago and have been working on his nerves ever since. I will say he has shown some improvement but this is not a trait I would want to see in any breed let alone a Connemara. If he were a mare I would not breed him because of this trait no matter how much type possessed.
My impression from alot (not all) of Connemara breeders is that type is the be all end all and I think some are so focused on this that they forget the other important things in breeding any animal and in my view is its use in life.
dr j I hope you find that special stallion for your mare.
Goodpony I have always admired your boy and that fact that you use your ponies.
mbm thanks for the links to the videos of the european championships. Love that Molly Brown and the fact that she seems so very ridable and well ridden.
M

[dr j]

My personal reason for owning a connemara is the brain and not the type. I do own 2 one who is off type - horsie the 2nd has type (looks like a connemara) both are oversized. My 2nd one is more athletic than the 1st but lacks the brain of the 1st one.M

Ahhhh but that good brain is part of type in our breed! You get it.... you realize that if your boy was a mare that his brain is the area in which he is "off type" no matter what his body looks like! So right there you are thrown into that classic conundrum..... as your less visually typey pony is mentally more typey!!

The ACPS values attitude greatly and will mark a pony down on an inspection if not acting appropriately for the situation. For example inspecting a 8 year old gelding who has been and done everything and he won't stand still to have his bone measured..... Not good. A two year old filly who has never left the farm and is a little "antsy" not such a big deal. Honestly though many of them are just awesome no matter what is going on around them.

[Monarch]

dr j I agree a good brain is part of what makes a connemara pony and for that matter any other good horse including a race horse.
It would be great if we could get everything we want all the time at 100% but as you know we don't. Then the question becomes what is most important to you and what can you compromise on? The answer imho is up to each individual or may be a group -if everyone can agree(thats always the trick) especially when the subject is a subjective one.
M

[goodpony]

I believe you can have it all: Temperament, Correct Conformation, Movement, Breed Type, Quality and Athleticism---(a big butt and pony ears and a bag of chips :)).....and I believe you can have all these things in a pony size--are they going to the next Olympics, maybe not--but if you have the skills and abilities to compete at a certain level---and If you choose wisely--I would say that most Modern Connemara Ponies wont keep you from meeting your goals. Some will be very good at moving up the levels in dressage, others will excel at jumping and eventing, and some will be the ultimate versatile all rounders---that can do it all and do most things well.

With respect to type I have two Purebred mares who have both met the inspection requirements for Premium Title with the ACPS and Weser Ems (German Riding Pony). In fact I think they are the first two pony mares to complete and pass the Oldenburg Verbands/ Weser EMs Mare Performance test in the US. They are both good strong mares with over eight inches of bone--but I would have to say both lean more towards Show Quality--which is what we strive to produce with our breeding program. This is a more modern type of Connemara Pony--and truthfully, as Dr. J. pointed out I would not be happy with some of the early foundation mares of our breed. But we also dont want to breed away from type--as it is the Native Character and Hardiness of the breed we hope to retain

I was very pleased this morning to receive a lovely complement from a well known Irish Breeder on my two year old gelding--the colt is currently the spitting image of his mother---with improvements to her hip, hind leg and bone :)--just my two cents but I believe the improvements come not only from his sire but also emphasizing certain individuals in his pedigree--this one happens to be line bred to Abbeyliex Finbar.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/redbuds+celtic+tiger

As I understand it the original native pony had low action and the introduction of the Arab blood introduced higher action. Its interesting to note that the Arabian used was also intrumental in the development of the Welsh B and German Ridng Pony. Characteristics introduced by the Thoroughbred were a better shoulder, foot (speed, stamina, endurance) and a longer length of rein. The less desirable characteristic was the high hip.

[poltroon]

I would love to see european-style pony jumpers here in the US. I think the Connemaras we are breeding here would excel at it, and I would love to see the kids doing those mini Grands Prix on ponies. I love watching the video of Dexter Leam Pondi, but we have no place to showcase such a talent here.

[Sassenach]

My impression from alot (not all) of Connemara breeders is that type is the be all end all and I think some are so focused on this that they forget the other important things in breeding any animal and in my view is its use in life.

I'm greedy. I want my ponies to have it all and yes type is a huge part of the package.

Overall the Connemara Pony breed in this country lacks type and so I want to breed ponies that have it all: TYPE, conformation, athleticism, temperament.

Another Connemara pony breeder who I admire sums it up quite well:

dedicated to producing Connemara ponies that are true to type and can be brilliant performers-- or best friends. We believe that a pony without type is not a Connemara, but a pony without correct conformation is not a pony at all! To be true to type, Connemaras must have terrific bone and substance, wonderful hardiness, lovely temperaments, and be pony height. To be top performers, ponies must be conformationally correct, balanced athletes, and great movers. Connemaras can have it all; to settle for less would do our breed a disservice.

[dr j]

I believe you can have it all: Temperament, Correct Conformation, Movement, Breed Type, Quality and Athleticism---(a big butt and pony ears and a bag of chips :)).....and I believe you can have all these things in a pony size--are they going to the next Olympics, maybe not--but if you have the skills and abilities to compete at a certain level---and If you choose wisely--I would say that most Modern Connemara Ponies wont keep you from meeting your goals.


[As I understand it the original native pony had low action and the introduction of the Arab blood introduced higher action.


A good point. It's interesting to me that our ponies as a group have such high level potential (esp for their small numbers) that they are often "indicted" for not competing at the very tippy top! But very few animals of any breed get to that level. I think if you could did a statistical analysis that factored in numbers, opportunity and level of performance you would find Connemaras have achieved at an extemely high level-probably higher than most breeds statistically. How many Connmaras have been pointed to the upper levels of dressage and/or eventing compared to the numbers of TBs/warmbloods?! Yet every year there are a handful of Connmaras performing well at those levels. Impressive when you consider we can figure the purebred population nationally is about 3500 ponies.

Also factor in who quickly us breeder types put our mares "out to stud". My mare I spoke of earlier has some pretty serious "ups" and would be stellar in jumpers but I can't do it all ( even if she can!) and she is of the age that she needs to reproduce.

And you are so right... when I am ready for an Olympic class horse, I will get off my pony! LOl

Also I think it's interesting that the "Mountain ponies" were supposed to have higher knee action, to get over the rocky terrain and the "Moorland" ponies were supposed to be more low and ground covering... to get over the moors! I good distinction when you are comparing a Welsh to a Connemara etc.

[goodpony]

My personal homebred, home raised, home started and trained pony is such a joy to me---he is much better than I could ever hope to ride up to his full potential. He gets a gold star for taking care of his amateur mom--and bonus points for making us look good. I was there when he drew his first breath and god willing I will be there to see him off to greener pastures. I don't think he knows or cares I am simply adequate.

[Tamara in TN]

just a thank you to the posters on this thread

civil and informative and actual info on bloodlines <gasp>

really ?

yes and thank you for it

Tamara in TN

[poltroon]

just a thank you to the posters on this thread

civil and informative and actual info on bloodlines <gasp>

really ?

yes and thank you for it

Tamara in TN

Connemara peeps rock! :D

Truly, it was just fantastic to go to the West Coast Connemara Show last year. Everyone was so friendly and welcoming. It was a pleasure to meet them in person and to see so many great ponies.

[goodpony]

Impressive when you consider we can figure the purebred population nationally is about 3500 ponies.

.

Its actually really scarey (not that Connemara's are great performers) but at the rate Purebred foals are being produced in the US---we are soon going to find ourselves a "rare breed." As I understand it we are presently not producing enough purebred foals each year to replace the existing population. I keep wondering how mare owners can be encouraged to breed their mares---not only to breed but to diversify those bloodlines for the future. I know that when I purchased my mares for Eclipse---I did try to chose quality mares that brought new blood into my region---not only new bloodlines but also complemented the very good stallions that we have here on the west coast. I think as breeders we almost all have to think in terms of the larger picture.

Also I was reading last night in the USEA Magazine that statistically most stallions only have one foal that is competing at the top level. So it is truly amazing that year in and year out Connemaras do tend towards competitive success....I can't think of another Pony breed that has more to crow about at the top of sport.

[poltroon]

Its actually really scarey (not that Connemara's are great performers) but at the rate Purebred foals are being produced in the US---we are soon going to find ourselves a "rare breed." As I understand it we are presently not producing enough purebred foals each year to replace the existing population. I keep wondering how mare owners can be encouraged to breed their mares---not only to breed but to diversify those bloodlines for the future. I know that when I purchased my mares for Eclipse---I did try to chose quality mares that brought new blood into my region---not only new bloodlines but also complemented the very good stallions that we have here on the west coast. I think as breeders we almost all have to think in terms of the larger picture.

Also I was reading last night in the USEA Magazine that statistically most stallions only have one foal that is competing at the top level. So it is truly amazing that year in and year out Connemaras do tend towards competitive success....I can't think of another Pony breed that has more to crow about at the top of sport.

I'd breed my mare - heck, I'd love to breed several mares - if only time and money would fall from the sky. :D Maybe next spring?

At this rate, by the time I have a baby of riding age, my daughter will have aged out of ponies... I may have to adopt ;)

[goodpony]

:D you know I have some pretty stellar kids and young adults lining up for my young ponies--I wouldn't worry too much about finding a rider when the time comes. You also could consider working with a trainer---many up and comers would love the chance to have something nice to ride/train while they are working on developing their clientele. Connemara's are good business as they tend to attract attention wherever they go :)

[dr j]

I agree, I have assembled a pretty nice little band of broodmares, and then I don't breed more than one at a time! That should change this year. I was more focused on my mares for the last few years. I have them now in several tiers - a couple older mares, really just for breeding at this point, some in the middle who are still performing and then I have 2 two year olds. I eventually DO want to have a "foal crop" - several foals each year, enough that someone could actually come and pick a youngster out of the group etc.

We have had the marketing discussion many times.... we do not market our product well, partly because we tend to be such "hit or miss" producers and many other reasons. Mr Dr j thinks we need to just all get together and trade ponies around once a year or so because that does seem to be what we do!

[ClassAction]

Its actually really scarey (not that Connemara's are great performers) but at the rate Purebred foals are being produced in the US---we are soon going to find ourselves a "rare breed." As I understand it we are presently not producing enough purebred foals each year to replace the existing population. I keep wondering how mare owners can be encouraged to breed their mares---not only to breed but to diversify those bloodlines for the future. I know that when I purchased my mares for Eclipse---I did try to chose quality mares that brought new blood into my region---not only new bloodlines but also complemented the very good stallions that we have here on the west coast. I think as breeders we almost all have to think in terms of the larger picture.

Also I was reading last night in the USEA Magazine that statistically most stallions only have one foal that is competing at the top level. So it is truly amazing that year in and year out Connemaras do tend towards competitive success....I can't think of another Pony breed that has more to crow about at the top of sport.

Do you think it would help if more adults rode Connemaras? Or knew that they could? People wonder why I ride a 14.1 1/2 pony but don't realize how big she rides! I never feel big on Lea. You just don't need a 15.2h Connemara to do "big" fences either. Lea took me over my (only ever) 3'6" set of fences no problem.

[goodpony]

Like Poltroon said--when "time and money fall from the sky!"...I would love to see a no holds bared contracted professional marketing campaign aimed at promoting the Breed in our major discipline magazines: USEF, USDF, USEA ect. as many of the major registries do. I would give more web presence to our approved Connemara Stallions on the ACPS website---similar to what the warmblood registries are doing (Weser Ems & ISR Sport Pony). I would hold an Annual Stallion Service auction and put those funds towards something like offering Purebred Foal & Youngstock Futurity Prize Money--on top of cash back prizes like we have out here in California. I would send introductory materials to each new Participating member to Join the ACPS. I would also like to award and incentive prize---like a trip to clifden show for the "best new breeder." I'd also like to see a "SNIP" prize to promote gelding some of our very best colts each year rather than the idea that every good colt should be kept entire. And a whole lotta other stuff....

I think the more people who realize these ponies arent just for kids (though they are also terrific family ponies) the better.

[poltroon]

I think it will help to have more adults riding Connemaras, and more adults realizing that they don't need 17.3 h to be competitive and have fun. I think it will also help if we get more ponies with great dressage movement - already we're lucky to have had an international star in Seldom Seen, a resume few non WB-breeds have, but we need new ones, and at all levels. I see a trend among adult women to realize that smaller horses may in fact be very appropriate for dressage and eventing, and Connemaras are in a good position to be those horses, if we have animals for sale with good training.

When I take my pony to open shows, I get a lot of nice comments. Her size makes her obviously interesting, and people ask about her. I just have to find the time and money to get out more. goodpony and her husband are doing a great job of getting their ponies out and about.

(Although, I am still laughing about one trainer, who had a cadre of children with ponies at a schooling show, who complemented me on my lovely pony and then started telling me about a pony stallion she knew, who would be just perfect, because he always puts pretty heads on his babies! I just smiled and took it as the compliment she intended...)

We are starting to get a significant collection of Connemaras showing in dressage up here in Northern California; maybe at some point we should coordinate and all agree to hit a particular show with a critical mass of Irish.

[ClassAction]

Would it be antithetical to the breed to go for slightly bigger? 15hh?

[Monarch]

Would it be antithetical to the breed to go for slightly bigger? 15hh?

Only problem with that is being over 14.2 in and of its self is considered off type. Most breeders will tell you if you want larger breed a half bred. But some do grow too tall and I happily own two of said type.
M

[Sassenach]

Would it be antithetical to the breed to go for slightly bigger? 15hh?

In my opinion yes it would.

In Ireland they have seen a rise in height over the past 20 years (I actually went through my old Irish studbooks from the 60s-90s and tracked the height. Starting in the late 80s the average height of mares rose from 13.3 to 14.1 and I saw only one stallion less than 14 hands in the books registered during the late 80s onward).

Breeding for a bigger animal does the breed a disservice in my opinion.

It is first and foremost a pony breed.

That being said there is a HUGE market in Europe for overheight geldings (15+ hand range) and in the case of a gelding that I agree with. Geldings are in my opinion supposed to be the primary performance animals in a breed.

Will I end up breeding a 15+ hand pony? Yes of course. But my colts will be gelded and my mares bred very carefully. I am lucky to have a few smaller mares who I can 'chance' on a bigger stallion and hope to see the size come down. (Have 2 smaller mares - one will be lucky to meet 14 hands when she finishes maturing the other is 14 hands on her tippy toes).

For too long in this country the goal was too breed a 'mini-TB' - oversize Connemaras were the demand. It took away from the type and character of the pony, what this breed should be.

Now there is a push for a more Native (true) Pony type and I am glad to see it. I hope it grows. More good breeders focusing on it, producing more true-to-type animals of quality and athleticism.

Breeding for a 15 hand animal will do the breed a disservice and ruin the strides that have been made in recent years.

You do not need to be 15 hands to be athletic. You do not need to be 15 hands to carry the average woman rider (for most of our market is to women/children). The Connemara Pony at 14.2 hands (or smaller) if it is true to type should have the substance, bone, athleticism, temperament and ability to carry its rider and do what is asked of it.

Having this breed remain a pony breed - pony sized is something I feel very strongly about.

To combat the height now Ireland has a 3-tiered Grading System

Grade 3: Purebred but uninspected/approved. It can be bred and its progeny registered but its progeny will always remain Grade 3. All ponies born start out Grade 3 until presented for Inspection. If not presented they will forevermore remain Grade 3.

Grade 2: Inspected but may have something that kept it from being approved Grade 1 - overheight, Blue-eyed cream - all of these will forever regulate a pony to Grade 2. Its progeny however if Inspected and approved may be Grade 1 (providing the progeny meet all the requirements).

Grade 1: Inspected and Approved. Met all the requirements for it - height included (it is Pony Height).

Grade 2's are not allowed to show in breed shows at least in the case of in-hand classes. I am not sure about performance classes.

As of right now the system is under review and so it may change.

[poltroon]

Would it be antithetical to the breed to go for slightly bigger? 15hh?

I think the answer for the breed is yes, it is a pony breed, and if you're breeding Connemaras to be Connemaras you should aim for pony height. But, we have some very nice 14.3 and even 15 h. stallions and that's OK. Many of them are producing pony offspring, bred to smaller mares.

If you're breeding specifically for sport, and not for a breeding animal, going for overheight is certainly done, and I don't have a problem trying for overheight purebred instead of overheight halfbred when breeding for sport. Yes, the demand for 15+ geldings is probably greatest for our breed.

But, I would think of that as being a sideline, creating sporthorses from Connemaras rather than Connemaras per se. It's a different goal. I think ACPS does a great job of supporting purebreds and halfbreds at their various accomplishments.

IMHO it would be a mistake to make the 15h+ individuals typical. As long as we have the pony base, it's always going to be possible to make dynamite halfbreds in the 15-16h range.

[dr j]

I'd also like to see a "SNIP" prize to promote gelding some of our very best colts each year rather than the idea that every good colt should be kept entire. And a whole lotta other stuff....

I think the more people who realize these ponies arent just for kids (though they are also terrific family ponies) the better.

We actually do have something similar. You can get 200 of your stallion registration monies back if you geld him. This is supported by one of our individual members. Not sure how many have received it but I know it has been utilized.

With the push to get more and more USEF classes and the eligibilty for year end awards, it makes lots of other promotin opportunities more feasible.

[dr j]

I think it will help to have more adults riding Connemaras, and more adults realizing that they don't need 17.3 h to be competitive and have fun. I think it will also help if we get more ponies with great dressage movement - already we're lucky to have had an international star in Seldom Seen, a resume few non WB-breeds have, but we need new ones, and at all levels. I see a trend among adult women to realize that smaller horses may in fact be very appropriate for dressage and eventing, and Connemaras are in a good position to be those horses, if we have animals for sale with good training.



Here are a few of the things I think influence our market issues

-Availability. Particularly of ponies ready to compete or enter serious training. Many times you will hear people say "ewww, a Connemara ( or cross), I wanted one of those but couldn't find one when I wanted one. It always puzzles me because I know they are out there BUT most people horse shopping have a few limiting parameters ( price, distance etc) SO yes I can see if you live in CA for instance and you need something in he 10K range that is even ready to go novice and at any given time the pickings would be slim. Those of us who are very involved with breed do think a little more "globally"- just because we have to and it's become our norm but I completely understand when buying a horse most people do not look country wide for a moderate budget.

- kids vs adults. We do breed the ultimate kid horse. Our biggest market though is the middle aged woman. New riders, re - riders or just people who are "over" the whole "big horse phenom" for whatever reason. 10 -15 years ago for every broke pony that was on the market there were several middle aged women trying to buy and maybe one child. More money and an attractive, stable (doting) home that the middle aged woman provides is very attractive to sellers.

-kids vs adults #2. Despite getting their butts kicked by ponies, some adults just can't "go there". This just cracks me up. The QH cutting and reining industry is built on horses that are not much bigger ( if at all) than our ponies. Lots of adults ride them. BIG adults. An eventer I respect ( and has offered to teach my small daughter) told me this when I asked her if she was interested in riding a few of mine "I don't ride ponies". Alrighty. I have a whole barn full, some with BIG POTENTIAL. SHe is probably 5 ft tall and less than 100 lbs. I WISH I was that small! LOL WHen people say things like that I want to ask, OK so if Teddy needed a jockey, you would be out?

-small amt of breeding stock. Even though geldings are the heart and soul of the performance market, that still leaves over half of the potential performances as mares. Good performance mares in our breed are just good mares all the way around and it's hard to balance performance and breeding. And they often are not for sale- at least not publicly.

-There is lots of "back and forth" with breeders, ponies that never hit the open market but get sold via word of mouth etc.

-the mere nature of the Connemara owner/breeder. Almost without exception most Connemara breeders adore there ponies. They give us joy just eating grass in the pasture! They are significanly lower maintenance than a large horse breed. They eat less, they are easier on the physical facilities, on the people etc. You can turn them out for a month and pretty much start right back where left off etc. They are just easy. IN our case we have 7 connemaras and 5 TBS. The 5 are 3 times the work of the 7. If we only had the 7.... we wouldn't have to go to the barn hardly. They do very well on 24/7 turn out etc. That means a superfulous ( sp?) Pony is not nearly the work of an extra big horse.

-the upper level thing/training is also an issue. Of course anyone would want another Wil Ya Love Me". But a horse like that is not going to go on the open, advertised market if sold at all. I guarantee you there is another out there, but it's not "there" yet. You have to go out and find it. Due to numbers again that would take time and travel. Statistically you are probably more likely to find a high performer if you actaully took the time to look at Connemaras ( esp because you could be steered to certainly bloodlines that really increase your chances) but logistically it's going to be much easier to look at all breeds and find an adequate mount.

How do we "fix" ? Don't know if you can or want to fix all of them. I think focusing on getting our youngsters started and promoted. I personally would love to see a "greenie" sale associated with our annual meeting or one of the bigger shows. Two and three year old prospects etc. Started and going under saddle. Even if we had 10 lots and we lost money (as an association) if we could institute something like this that came to be known, it could be a fabulous thing for breeders and those in the market.

Maybe we can get this going around the fabulous Midwest show in the future!! WOW there's an idea! LOL

[dr j]

PS - Since our purebred foal crops are running around 80 foals/year, a sale in which we included 2 and 3 year olds and had 15 purebreds entered would be almost 10% of our foal crops! That is about the percentage of a foal crop the TB industry sells in sales with the TB auction market being the "best" in the world. So "only" 15 would be huge and very exciting. Add a few 1/2 breds in there and it would be fabulous.

[poltroon]

PS - Since our purebred foal crops are running around 80 foals/year, a sale in which we included 2 and 3 year olds and had 15 purebreds entered would be almost 10% of our foal crops! That is about the percentage of a foal crop the TB industry sells in sales with the TB auction market being the "best" in the world. So "only" 15 would be huge and very exciting. Add a few 1/2 breds in there and it would be fabulous.

Geography is still biting us in the butt, but maybe with the wonders of the internet, we can get people interested in coming together that way.

But, I think the real demand, of course, is the 4+ ready to go under saddle and in training. And it takes money to get them to that point.

When I bought my TB mare in 1996, before that I did indeed look for a Connemara or halfbred. I only found two that fit my criteria in my half of the country, and one was sold before I could look and the other had been hurt and was not available to see. This was before the internet made online shopping across state lines so much easier. My friend, shopping for an event horse about that same time, ended up bringing a been-there-done-that halfbred home from Ireland.

The pony I have now (13.3) is not one I would have thought to look at for myself. I was shopping for my daughter and found her too green for that... but perfect for me. So maybe the other part of what we need to do is figure out how to get more adults willing to test drive the under 15h set.

[poltroon]

Of course anyone would want another Wil Ya Love Me". But a horse like that is not going to go on the open, advertised market if sold at all. I guarantee you there is another out there, but it's not "there" yet. You have to go out and find it. Due to numbers again that would take time and travel. Statistically you are probably more likely to find a high performer if you actaully took the time to look at Connemaras ( esp because you could be steered to certainly bloodlines that really increase your chances) but logistically it's going to be much easier to look at all breeds and find an adequate mount.


I bet there are 20-30 just as capable - yes, even in our small population - that just don't get the exposure and miles.

[dr j]

Geography is still biting us in the butt, but maybe with the wonders of the internet, we can get people interested in coming together that way.

But, I think the real demand, of course, is the 4+ ready to go under saddle and in training. And it takes money to get them to that point.



Geography is a biggie. But a place in the middle of the country that is easily accessible via air from both coasts might work. If you enough to look at that it would take weeks to see the same number ( and extensive travel) it would be very feasible.

I think you are right about the 4+ group - and don't think they would "hold out" until the auction. They would sold or not for sale any longer!! Have to pick an age as a breeder in which you can still "visualize" a profit - at 4 with training you would be behind the 8 ball.

[goodpony]

Geography is still biting us in the butt, but maybe with the wonders of the internet, we can get people interested in coming together that way.

But, I think the real demand, of course, is the 4+ ready to go under saddle and in training. And it takes money to get them to that point.



I agree--geography is biting us in the butt (at least if you are on the West Coast). We have traveled a pony from the West Coast to Ohio/KY and I can tell you it is no mean feat---not many of us are capable of financing such an operation nor can many of us afford to take the time away from home/farm/family. As it is our region show is solid 7.5-8 hour haul--not easy but we consider it the highlight of our season.

Currently my last three inquiries have been for purebred fillies, stallion prospects and multiple dressage pony prospects with jumping talent (unstarted thru 1st/2nd Level). I have had only one child inquiry (I do not intentionally market my ponies to children as most are unstarted--or just started, and frankly they are a little to smart for a childs first pony--with out adult supervision). 98 percent of these people would like to spend no more than 5k or less for an upper level prospect with breeding potential. I will also say that I have turned down multiple offers of 6x that for some of my ridden ponies---so the market I agree (at least on the West Coast) is truly for the competitive ridden ponies---particularly quality, good minded individuals with excellent gaits.


I have my own particular reasons for choosing and using an over height stallion for one of my mares this season. I had hoped to breed a good daughter from my foundation mare that could then be retained and bred back to my stallion who consistently produces Pony Type--even when bred to more horse-like individuals. I also have the advantage of knowing what my mare tends to produce and wanted to attempt this breeding while she is still in her prime years--as this will be her seventh purebred foal. Pretty sure she is out there putting the faucet as I write this--keeping my fingers crossed it just takes a little longer to make big fillies.

[dr j]

I have my own particular reasons for choosing and using an over height stallion for one of my mares this season. I had hoped to breed a good daughter from my foundation mare that could then be retained and bred back to my stallion who consistently produces Pony Type--even when bred to more horse-like individuals. I also have the advantage of knowing what my mare tends to produce and wanted to attempt this breeding while she is still in her prime years--as this will be her seventh purebred foal. Pretty sure she is out there putting the faucet as I write this--keeping my fingers crossed it just takes a little longer to make big fillies.

The stallion you used also has good type - he is just big ( which does go back to type chicken/egg thing). He is also a stallion that none of us would have access to if wasn't oversize. He is also proving to be a stellar performer. Since this is his first purebred crop it will be interesting to see what he produces.

[poltroon]

So the Irish discount their nice colts that go over 14.2?

[HCH]

i love the internet!

Connemara dressage ponies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZW8yj4_w94

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA9HkzfKV9k&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAwzS_M5no

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guHkhEGLVm8&feature=related


Here's some dressage video of ArdCeltic Art at 3rd and 4th level taken while in Wellington this month:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAKvxFtGraQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY-Fjm9HXbk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmeYIklNg44

[Sassenach]

So the Irish discount their nice colts that go over 14.2?

They are given Grade 2 status (as long as they go up for inspection) and can still be bred. But cannot be shown in breed shows. Their progeny if inspected and are pony-height/no other disqualifiers can be Grade 1.

We have used a Grade 2 stallion in Ireland and except for being over height he is probably one of the nicest stallions I have ever seen and one of the best movers.

My Grandpa knew me too well as we went up to see him: You will love him even though he is over height. I promise. :lol::lol: I had to remind him: who is it that drilled a Connemara is a PONY is a PONY is a PONY into my head? :lol:

He has a full brother who is Grade 1 and is just as nice and has been doing very, very well in shows across Ireland and at Clifden.

[goodpony]

There is a very big market for over height geldings in the UK and Europe as performance horses--just like here. The UK also also follows a more stringent height requirement for their studbook as do many other parts of the world. The UK at onetime published on their website a "buyers guide" that specifically warned buyers about the height requirement with respect to both breed inspections and sanctioned Connemara and NPS shows. In order to show as a Connemara Pony--in Connemara or Mountain and Moorland events you must meet the height requirement. The FEI still defines a Pony as approximately 14.2 1/2 with shoes. If we followed these rule in the US--we'd have a little more than half of the ponies we currently have at our breed shows.

If you read the CPBS Objectives it states that one of its goals is to: "Promote the breeding of the Connemara Pony in order to safeguard the conservation of this native Irish breed."

Looking at the minimum requirements for placement into Class 1 of the Main Studbook it reads:

"In Order to be Placed in Class 1 of the Main Stud Book Ponies must meet the following five criteria. (minimum age 2)

Both parents must have been presented for Inspection
Both parents must have passed a veterinary Inspection
Measure 128cms to 148cms inclusive
Pass a visual Inspection
Pass a veterinary Inspection"

Clearly the objective is to produce a Pony Sized Individual.

I was noticing last night while touring the web how many times Class (1) is mentioned. Here is just one example:

http://www.fernvilleponystud.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=29

[dr j]

Here's some dressage video of ArdCeltic Art at 3rd and 4th level taken while in Wellington this month:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAKvxFtGraQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY-Fjm9HXbk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmeYIklNg44

Looks great and very fit!!

[goodpony]

They are given Grade 2 status (as long as they go up for inspection) and can still be bred. But cannot be shown in breed shows. Their progeny if inspected and are pony-height/no other disqualifiers can be Grade 1.



Are these Class 2 Stallions sometimes eligible to be inspected into other studbooks-for breeding registered Irish Sport Horses or something else?

The reason I ask is I have met several ISH who event here in CA that have an unbelievable resemblance to our Ponies--but the owner insists they are ISH. Do you think that they are connemara ponies being sold overseas as ISH? I have also noticed that certain lines--particularly those descending from Rebel Wind tend to be leggier others and all seem to have amazingly consistent looking heads---they also tend to be remarkably good movers. Anyone else notice this? I mention this because we have two stallions out here in Calfornia both imported and both descending from Rebel Wind--who are both over and you could swear they were related not only to eachother but also to the ISH I saw...they all have the same head!

[Chaila]

Goodpony.. you have some glorious, reasonably priced beasties on your website. Alas, you are in California!!

-C

[Sassenach]

Are these Class 2 Stallions sometimes eligible to be inspected into other studbooks-for breeding registered Irish Sport Horses or something else?

The reason I ask is I have met several ISH who event here in CA that have an unbelievable resemblance to our Ponies--but the owner insists they are ISH. Do you think that they are connemara ponies being sold overseas as ISH? I have also noticed that certain lines--particularly those descending from Rebel Wind tend to be leggier others and all seem to have amazingly consistent looking heads---they also tend to be remarkably good movers. Anyone else notice this? I mention this because we have two stallions out here in Calfornia both imported and both descending from Rebel Wind--who are both over and you could swear they were related not only to eachother but also to the ISH I saw...they all have the same head!

Yes they can be approved into the Irish Horse Board Studbook - my grandfather's stallion Catamaran was approved and he frequently got ISH mares whose owners wanted a smaller/cobby type animal from the breeding.

I also did notice when looking through the Connemara Pony Section of the IHB Studbook that there were some non-CPBS approved stallions in the book so I believe in theory a Grade 2 or even Grade 3 stallion could be included.

Irish Horse Board is more of a performance and pedigree orientated type registry so breed approvals and such don't matter that much.

The Rebel Wind line is especially well known for being good movers. My Grandfather's Catamaran was a Murphy Rebel son (so a Rebel Wind grandson) and he was a gorgeous, gorgeous mover.

And the Rebel Wind/Murphy Rebel head is extremely recognizable - it is a line known for its head :)

I remember once Sue Clarke from Glenormiston posted a photo of her Rebel Wind granddaughter and just from the profile shot I inquired if she was Rebel Wind-related without even looking at the pedigree.

[mbm]

i found this and thought it might be interesting for folks:

http://www.stutteri-bech.dk/Hingstelinier.htm

my google translates it so hopefully it will for you too :)

[poltroon]

Goodpony.. you have some glorious, reasonably priced beasties on your website. Alas, you are in California!!

-C

No worries, Chalia. Give us a state and we'll hook you up. (evil grin)

[goodpony]

Goodpony.. you have some glorious, reasonably priced beasties on your website. Alas, you are in California!!

-C

Thankyou--My husband and I both really love what we are doing--and are excited about what the season holds. My website is currently running behind--but I have lots of new pictures and news to share in and upcoming update. Probably the most exciting is the arrival of our first foal of the season--R. Robin Goodfellow (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/redbuds+robin+goodfellow). Shown here at 11 days. We are excited to watch this one grow up.

[pcwertb]

Lovely filly!

Back to the adults on connemaras thing, I started riding my daughter's leadline pony (13.3 connemara). She rides "big" and I don't feel big on her. I actually feel bigger on my 14.3 New Forest, as she is narrow in build.

For reference, I'm only 5'3 but I weigh 130 so not as light as I could be.

[goodpony]

Your pony looks awesome! I have been looking for a retired/semiretired smaller pony for my own kiddo to do leadline/walk trot on.

Not that I think this is a match by any means but for comparison this guy is 6.2 at least! The pony he is riding is my four year old mare who is 14.2 and a 1/2" with shoes:Taylor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVmk4Qwiwlk)

he told us when he retires from riding the big guys he wants a Connemara Pony for himself! :D

I was fiddling around today and thought this was a pretty good introduction on what to look for when shopping for a pony on the BCPS website:

http://www.britishconnemaras.co.uk/index.php?id=196

[columbus]

I think that is you are looking for a non-pony Connemara perhaps you should also look at small Irish Draughts.
http://www.blackberryridgefarm.com/stallions/fergal.html
Fergal is a very exciting mover and most of his breeding are in the 15-16 hand range.
I have a 15.1 hand purebred RID mare from similar breeding. Irish Draughts are very smart and athletic and can also be SMALL. The Irish inspectors love to see "tidy little Draughts". The Connemara and the Draughts come from similar backgrounds and were bred for similar purposes and you often see them crossed and competing against each other jumping and hunting in Ireland. Right now from what you are saying the Irish Draught are less expensive at the moment. Just a thought. PatO

[pcwertb]

Goodpony, I'm having Lucy inspected for premium status for ACPS. She is 12, has had 4 foals (1 for me) and then she can have a date with Eclipse :) She is by Tre Awain Cavan O'Connor and out of Heaven's Ridge Treasa. I love her. She can be a bit too much of a Ferrari for a kid though!

This is a teenager (tall, 5'7) riding Lucy in a dressage test.

Hard to believe the rider is 6'2 on Taylor, she doesn't really seem too small!

[goodpony]

WOW good luck with her Premium Inspection--though I think she already looks very special in her pictures and neat pedigree too! Im really hoping Taylor can get her ACPS Premium title (her initial scores have made her a candidate and she has now met the foal requirement) when she is eight. Taylors breeders came all the way from Canada to be there on her special day--it was very exciting. Taylors mother Eastlands Glendearg was awarded her premium last season with Tom Mac Lochlainn (International Judge and former President of the Irish Breeders Society) chairing the inspections committee--I was thrilled for her owners!!. I hope my girl can follow in moms footsteps one day:)

[poltroon]

Here's some dressage video of ArdCeltic Art at 3rd and 4th level taken while in Wellington this month:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAKvxFtGraQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY-Fjm9HXbk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmeYIklNg44

He looks great HCH, and on top of that, the scores were in the 67-69% range - very impressive.

[Carol Ames]

Premium Connemara Pony Mare Glenormiston Amelia http://www.clubequestrian.com/videos/watch/1367.aspx

[goodpony]

Hi Carol, that is my other mare Amelia---she is in foal to Art---anybody have an "A" name?:)

She is 14.1HH and thats that same 6.2 guy. The person speaking is Katrin Burger Deputy Breeding Director of the GOV.

[Sassenach]

Hi Carol, that is my other mare Amelia---she is in foal to Art---anybody have an "A" name?:)

She is 14.1HH and thats that same 6.2 guy. The person speaking is Katrin Burger Deputy Breeding Director of the GOV.

Irish 'A' names are my favorite :D

Aileen - "Ay-leen" light
Ailey - "A-lee" also means light
Aisling - "Ash-ling" dream/vision
Aine - "Anya" means splendor
Adara
Alaina - dear child
Adeen - little fire

[Carol Ames]

not necessarily Irish, but, from the world of Opera,
Ariadne, Arabella, Arrieto.

[Sassenach]

Home from college! That means I can take photos of my ponies again :D

Some new photos of my 2 year old colts. So so pleased with how they are maturing and coming into themselves.

Photos:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=201268&id=610786154&l=7ad56dd4f0

[goodpony]

Now those are some handsome boys! :D

[Sassenach]

Now those are some handsome boys! :D

Thank you! Going to be fun to put some tack on them and start them lightly and keep their little minds busy this summer :)

Rebel's mother is not broke to ride - her job is to be a broodmare and she just produces the best babies (always said a year she doesn't get in foal I will start her) so I'm really excited to start him. He reminds me so much of her :)

[mbm]

all this talk about sport Connemaras and i thought i would post this http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbqvgh_seder-du-maucomble-en-liberte_sport

nice example of a sport pony that is handsome and obviously very athletic :)

btw: does anyone have the book: "The Modern Connemara"?

I am thinking of ordering it but there is no contact info except mailing address and i am not sure if i am supposed to mail him a US check or?

[goodpony]

I have it--its not especially well edited---lot of spelling and grammatical errors---also almost NO photos or supporting information. Its more of a list of begat and begat---though the section on Carna Bobby is pretty good. A more interesting book---though not necessarily about sport Connemaras is

"As I See It" by Pat Lyne

[Chaila]

all this talk about sport Connemaras and i thought i would post this http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbqvgh_seder-du-maucomble-en-liberte_sport

nice example of a sport pony that is handsome and obviously very athletic :)

btw: does anyone have the book: "The Modern Connemara"?

I am thinking of ordering it but there is no contact info except mailing address and i am not sure if i am supposed to mail him a US check or?

Who is that pony? I'm in loff!

[mbm]

Seder Du Maucomble

http://elevagedumaucomble.com/

[mbm]

Thanks Goodpony :)

Since i am specifically interested in Connemara for sport the book sounds fascinating (if maybe a bit dry;))

did you get it by ordering it direct from the author?

[goodpony]

I think I ordered it through Heartfelt Farms (not sure if they are still in business as the link isnt active)--you might be able to get it through the ACPS bookstore????

Your guy there reminds me of my guy---more of a show/performance type Connemara---which the French Breeders have really focused on.

EZ could definitely tell you more---she has Oleander and was involved with Connemaras in France before moving to the bay area.

[erinwillow]

I have it--its not especially well edited---lot of spelling and grammatical errors---also almost NO photos or supporting information. Its more of a list of begat and begat---though the section on Carna Bobby is pretty good. A more interesting book---though not necessarily about sport Connemaras is

"As I See It" by Pat Lyne

I second the Pat Lyne book!! Look for our farm, Willow Run and our stallion as they are mentioned in this book :winkgrin:

[columbus]

http://www.eliteirishhorses.com/horseDetail.php?id=33
This pedigree seems to produce..size! PatO

[Bodoni]

This is a Swedish database has lots of great pedigree information from multiple connemara registries as well as lots of pictures! It also has a built-in English translation.

http://www.aramennoc.se/

Also Jenny Hagenblad has written several histories of founding connemara mare families.

http://www.connemaraponny.org/mares/mares.htm

[mbm]

hey, thanks for the links with research info. :)

[mbm]

hey, i wanted to let folks know i did decide on a Connemara and bought a 2 yo colt. He was bred by none other than Sassenach and he will start his cross county trip to my place tomorrow - he will get to me on Sunday.


his name is Rebel and he is by *The Quietman - he is quite cobby and quite athletic. i think he is going to be a blast ! :)

you can see pics here:


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=291899&l=8bbe26f905&id=100000097655253

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=291903&l=ebf9355aae&id=100000097655253

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=291900&l=5f542854a1&id=100000097655253

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=291902&l=9671fc095f&id=100000097655253

[poltroon]

Congratulations!

[Janet]

hey, i wanted to let folks know i did decide on a Connemara and bought a 2 yo colt.
...

his name is Rebel
BIG Connemara shoes to fill with a name like that!!

[BookendFarm]

We have a fabulous colt by ArdCeltic Art o/o a TB mare. We had him inspected Old NA Sportpony and he was deemed Premium, with an 8.2 for movement. His trot and canter are both beautiful and balanced and I've never been around a more level-headed, bold, friendly horse...and he's only a yearling! You can check him out on our website (www.bookendfarm.com). He's a definite keeper and I would happily breed 10 more just like him!

[mbm]

BIG Connemara shoes to fill with a name like that!!

?? when i look at his pedigree he is full of "rebels" -- his "real" name is Windy Isle Island Rebel.... Rebelicious for short ;)

which Rebel is the one with the big feet?

[goodpony]

There is a very nice article on Niamhs Weblog regarding Murphy Rebel (http://ardcru.wordpress.com/golden-older-ponies/) though I think she is referring to this REBEL (http://www.elphinfarms.com/images/pedigree/Rebel.jpg) who was a very early stallion in the breed.

Congrats again on your new boy--I just spoke to Windy Isles today. They were very excited about your Rebel coming out to California.:)

[mbm]

tnx goodpony :) i have read that article and done a lot of research into rebels family :)

for those that are interested here is his pedigree : http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/windy+isles+island+rebel you can see how many crosses he has to the original rebel - and it looks like naming the boys in the family xxx rebel is a long standing tradition :)

the Rebel line is supposed to be very athletic. maybe with all the rebels in his pedigree the cards will be stacked :)

i am *very* excited to get him and cant wait to see how he grows up...

and goodpony - please do come meet him next time you are in the hood. :)

[Janet]

?? when i look at his pedigree he is full of "rebels" -- his "real" name is Windy Isle Island Rebel.... Rebelicious for short ;)

which Rebel is the one with the big feet?

the one born in 1922

[mbm]

he's here !!!!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=318180&l=51f0f16a08&id=100000097655253

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=318183&l=431a6daf38&id=100000097655253

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=318177&l=520d6f3d35&id=100000097655253



http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=318176&l=297661c8bb&id=100000097655253

[Sassenach]

he's here !!!!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=318180&l=51f0f16a08&id=100000097655253

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=318183&l=431a6daf38&id=100000097655253

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=318177&l=520d6f3d35&id=100000097655253

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=318176&l=297661c8bb&id=100000097655253

So glad he got to you safe and sound! :D Give him a kiss for me!

[ConnXTB]

I have a ConnemaraXTb mare that just turned 4. She has an amazing work ethic and is sooo athletic. She has an amazing canter and a huge stride. She has just started jumping and it's a breeze for her. Her temperment is AMAZING. I haven't ever had a horse that wanted to be with people so much. I have just found she has a really nice brain on her. She learns things very quickly. She is also 15.2. I love, love, love this cross and would love another one some day. I do have some pictures of her as a 2 year old and as a 4yr old. It is amazing how much she has matured.
2yrs old
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/VodkasMom/siggypoc.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/VodkasMom/newbutters3.jpg
4yrs
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/VodkasMom/m10.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/VodkasMom/m11.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/VodkasMom/m4.jpg

[goodpony]

ConnxTB is that your filly by Dreama? Looking forwards to meeting you at the WCCS.

MBM-YAY, Cant wait to meet him!

[DefyingGravityEventing]

Hey all. Wow I learned a ton reading this thread, even about my own pony (thanks! I can't wait to tell his breeder)! As a rider/trainer my primary concern is the horse's intelligence, athletic ability, and willingness- All of which Connemaras have! While I can't comment on most of the incredibly knowledgeable information gathered here, I can give my two cents on why we have a lack of PUREBRED Connemaras at the upper levels.

I lucked into Wil'Ya Love Me, and was told (am told) every step of the way that I didn't belong at the level or that I needed to invest my time and money into a "horse" rather than the "pony." Every single step of the way. How many aspiring professionals does this derail? Having countless BNTs tell you to stop wasting your time playing with a pony. Are you taken seriously by talent spotters or sponsors??

Riding ponies at the upper levels is an entirely different ball game. You have to be conscious of everything from your (the rider's) weight, to perfecting your upper body over fences (never ever can you throw yourself), etc. While their jumping form may be incredible, their height does cause a hindrance. You HAVE to have the perfect canter, get the right spot, etc because your pony is already working overtime to get over the 3'11 creek oxer. So while you have to be perfect on a 16.2 hand athletic horse at Intermediate, you have to be PERFECT on a 14.3 pony at Intermediate. Your margin for error is incredibly small.

I've learned a TON with my pony, but we've definitely made mistakes along the way. For example: In preparation for Jersey I worked with several BNTs, one of which worked with Teddy - who helped me form a conditioning schedule for Willy. I followed it to the "T" and he felt great, was on the cusp of making time at all the hard events, but hit a wall at minute 8 at Jersey. This left my coaches baffled, as any other horse would have been fine around a **. Lesson - to run around a ** we have to be *** fit b/c Willy has to work twice as hard to push himself over the fence than the larger, lighter horses.

Ok, I may have gone off on a tangent (s), but my point is this. There are a great number of purebred Connemaras who have the athletic ability and brain to compete at the upper levels. What there is a lack of is riders and trainers with the knowledge (along with money, transportation, etc). It's a different experience to ride these little guys around the big courses - and many BNTs don't want to be seen on ponies (especially until you figure out their attitude!!). Heck, even my students aren't keen on the idea of riding ponies...and they see Willy every time they come for a lesson!

I have always loved riding so much (yes I even tried jumping my neighbor's cow at the age of 11), that riding an opinionated, tiny Connemara didn't really phase me. I didn't have any other horse options, so I kept working with him and progressing slowly up the levels.

I guess we can start a "send potential upper level Connemaras to Courtney" campaign :lol: because people have no idea what they are missing - and I would LOVE to cash in on this secret! I would rather gallop a solid 4ft table on my pony than on a horse any day. If only I can convince him that the dressage ring isn't an over-sized start box...

[poltroon]

Thanks for chiming in, Courtney. I think there's no doubt that there are many nice Connemaras who never get a chance to reach their full potential. We're enjoying them in other, low maintenance ways and they just quietly star in their backyards. And there is a lot of pushback against ponies and smaller horses that I hope will lessen somewhat as more smaller women realize that 17.2 isn't right for everyone.

(Especially not if you have to haul your own hay, muck your own stalls, or fix your own fences!)

[poltroon]

I sent my entry in for the West Coast Connemara Show (http://www.westcoastconnemarashow.com/) at Twin Rivers June 25-27 earlier this week. Entries close tomorrow (Fri 5/21) - hope to see some of you there! It was a real festival of Connemara-ness last year, with dressage, driving, jumpers, games, trail, in hand, etc. This year they even added a Derby class mixing the stadium and cross country. It's a great place to see a lot of different Connemaras in person.

[Sassenach]

Thanks for chiming in, Courtney. I think there's no doubt that there are many nice Connemaras who never get a chance to reach their full potential. We're enjoying them in other, low maintenance ways and they just quietly star in their backyards. And there is a lot of pushback against ponies and smaller horses that I hope will lessen somewhat as more smaller women realize that 17.2 isn't right for everyone.

(Especially not if you have to haul your own hay, muck your own stalls, or fix your own fences!)

Thanks for chiming n Courtney :)

My Grandpa joked I 'came pony-sized' (4'10) give me a good pony any day of the week over a 17+ hander. So I am totally that 'smaller woman who realizes 17.2 hands isn't right for everyone.'

[Dune]

I lucked into Wil'Ya Love Me, and was told (am told) every step of the way that I didn't belong at the level or that I needed to invest my time and money into a "horse" rather than the "pony." Every single step of the way. How many aspiring professionals does this derail? Having countless BNTs tell you to stop wasting your time playing with a pony. Are you taken seriously by talent spotters or sponsors??

Riding ponies at the upper levels is an entirely different ball game. You have to be conscious of everything from your (the rider's) weight, to perfecting your upper body over fences (never ever can you throw yourself), etc. While their jumping form may be incredible, their height does cause a hindrance. You HAVE to have the perfect canter, get the right spot, etc because your pony is already working overtime to get over the 3'11 creek oxer. So while you have to be perfect on a 16.2 hand athletic horse at Intermediate, you have to be PERFECT on a 14.3 pony at Intermediate. Your margin for error is incredibly small.



Ok, I may have gone off on a tangent (s), but my point is this. There are a great number of purebred Connemaras who have the athletic ability and brain to compete at the upper levels. What there is a lack of is riders and trainers with the knowledge (along with money, transportation, etc). It's a different experience to ride these little guys around the big courses - and many BNTs don't want to be seen on ponies (especially until you figure out their attitude!!).

I guess we can start a "send potential upper level Connemaras to Courtney" campaign :lol: because people have no idea what they are missing - and I would LOVE to cash in on this secret! .

I think you make some excellent points! If I had a dime for everytime I have run into this attitude in the dressage circle, I'd be a rich woman. Personally, I also ran into roadblocks specifically with some Connie breeders (none that post here, btw) that either didn't know what they had, thought they had more pony than they really did or had an interesting pony but would rather sell it to a beginning type ammy for more a couple grand more than to me who could get it out and do something with it. Someday I may own the "right" connie, but for now will stick with the Welsh/Welsh crosses. However, if some of those dressage talents that are "rejects" for Courtney's 3 day aspirations want to come out Dune's way...let me know....:yes::winkgrin:

[dr j]

Great points Courtney. COngrats on all your success with Willy. It's really fun to "follow" you guys!

It is frustrating..... I have a local talented rider with whom I am social.... rides TBs. Last time we were together I said "wow, you should ride some of my Connemaras for me!" What a perfect situation! She is about 5 foot tall tops... and probably less than 100 lbs. Her response "I don't ride ponies".

I am tempted to ask "So if they called you tomorrow and asked you if you wanted to ride Teddy (if he was still with us..) you would say "I don't ride ponies" ?

I think the first obstacle many have to get over... is their own attitude!

[goodpony]

I guess we can start a "send potential upper level Connemaras to Courtney" campaign :lol:

I have two ready to go now one a partbred the other a purebred. :) The partbred may already be heading out your way later in the season for training and promotion. Then again you could always relocate to the West Coast we'd love to have you out here :)

"What there is a lack of is riders and trainers with the knowledge (along with money, transportation, etc). It's a different experience to ride these little guys around the big courses - and many BNTs don't want to be seen on ponies"

Sadly this is the challenge we breeders face and know all to well---putting all the pieces together. I've been lucky to find decent riders for some of my ponies but as you say there is still quite a learning curve to be had--even for very good riders.

Maybe you should give some clinics!

[equestrianrider]

ArdCeltic is a wonderful stallion. he is so lovely while having an amazing temperment for being a stallion. His owner, Donna Miller, is doing great things with him. he's sucha fun horse to watch We have plans on breeding him to our conn/tb mares.

I also really approve of the Grange line. We have 2 conn/tb mares out of Grange and a full connemara stallion out of him as well. (very exciting) My event horse is out of Grange and a conn/tb/ID. This horse is a saint, and really all around amazing. Our family has been so blessed by him, and is why we've started breeding his sport horse type.

The conn/tb crosses are making headlines in the eventing world. I think many are cautious of the connemaras because they are not as tall, but as many are now competing at the upper levels people are quickly changing their mind.


Our 3yo conn/tb has been amazing to watch. We actually sent him to Donna Miller to start, and he returned about 2 weeks ago. Already he's schooling ditches and water. He's such a doll and is such an exciting pony to see.