advice for choosing a farm horse

[slc2]

we'd like to get a farm horse that can pull a cart on the road, manure spreader, mower and possibly some other implements on the farm. does anyone have some suggestions about breed, age, sources to find farm horses, etc.

[slc2]

we'd like to get a farm horse that can pull a cart on the road, manure spreader, mower and possibly some other implements on the farm. does anyone have some suggestions about breed, age, sources to find farm horses, etc.

[slc2]

sure, you're entitled to your opinion.

i'm sure some amish are ok to buy horses from. and i'm also pretty sure quite a few are fairly canny about selling worn out horses to less experienced outsiders.

we aren't thinking of having the cob do farm work. i think we need a heavier farm horse to pull implements, perhaps a 1/4 standardbred/ 3/4 draft cross like a lot of the amish use. i'm also curious about the smaller drafty ponies and the old Western Chunks my aunt had (probably what is now called Spotted Draft?).

we don't want to ride this horse at all. we will have plenty of riding horses. we are going east to look at some cobs in about 3 weeks, sorry but if we get him we won't put him to the farm implements. we want to get a farm horse and keep the riding horses off the road and out of the harness.

[slc2]

yes, we'll avoid all the amish people selling horses http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

yes, thanks, if we can find a shorter, smaller lighter draft, we will. we're looking for a farm horse, and most of the draft 'breed' horses i see are too large and too tall, and too heavy and too hitchy, and too expensive to feed. they're fancy show horses, not farm horses.

what i mean when i say 'Farm Horse' is not a large showy draft breed, and not a riding horse, but an animal heavier than a riding horse, and lighter and smaller than a show draft horse. we don't want to ride it.

does anyone have any suggestions for a farm horse? we don't need to ride it, and we don't want a large, heavy show horse. any ideas on type, breed, where to find.

[Elise]

We have Morgans that can haul pretty big stuff! You gotta look for the government/brunk or Lippit lines...the more stocky "old type" Morgan, not the flaky swan neck, can't do a thing morgan.

Elise

[slc2]

thanks. does anyone have any other ideas about farm horses?

[hitchinmygetalong]

I second the old-type Morgan. That's what the breed was developed to do - anything. I have a Lippitt and this horse is BEGGING to be put in a work harness and throw his shoulder into some serious stump-pulling. Easy keepers, intelligent, and a very manageable size. Some of the "pure" Lippitts can be on the small side, but a Lippitt crossed with Brunk or Gov't can be one heck of a work horse.

[slc2]

thanks. any other suggestions?

[Trakehner]

Suffolk Punch was the classic "pocket farm" draft you could also drive or ride...nice chestnut "chunks". Unfortunately, too many Suffold breeders have gone nuts and are breeding huge animals.

Suffolks are also expensive.

Fjords are expensive horses.

Morgans are expensive horses and are really tending to smaller nowadays.

You will absolutely positively get the most bang for your buck with a smaller Belgian. They are everywhere, very fairly priced and the smaller ones don't have the desirability as the show-sized harness horses which means even cheaper prices for a nice one. I'm a Shire fan, it's what I drive and use, but Belgians are a lovely breed that is very affordable.

I second the "don't buy a horse from the Amish". Great carts and carriages, bad for horses. If you want to see an amazing variety of horse lameness issues, go to the New Holland PA auction...if it walks funny, the Amish are selling it there.

[IronwoodFarm]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trakehner:
Fjords are expensive horses.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow Trakehner, I don't know what Fjord prices are where you are, but I don't consider them expensive horses. You can get a nicely trained horse who rides and drives single and pairs for $5K. I raise Fjords and can tell you that foal prices are not high either. Maybe I should move to your area of the state because that's not the case in my area. My farm is holding a Fjord Foal Festival and Open House with 13 sales animals on the premises. Nothing is higher than $7,500 and that's for a registered, evaluated, trained, and proven 13 year old mare.

[Trakehner]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Wow Trakehner, I don't know what Fjord prices are where you are, but I don't consider them expensive horses. You can get a nicely trained horse who rides and drives single and pairs for $5K. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I pulled up your website for your sale. The majority of the sale horses were babies (10 of the 13 I believe.) The buying a baby route though is an expensive way to buy a horse until it's a "using" size. So a $3,500-$5k baby isn't a bargain. No heights/weights were given for the Fjords, so this is a tough way to judge what these guys might be good for.

$5-7K for a typically pony-sized animal I consider expensive. I like Fjords, I think they're an interestingly colored animal. But, they typically are pony-sized (13.2-14.2 sure seem to be the sizes of the Fjords in the Ad Horse website of horses for sale). Fjords are also a rare breed in this country, there is typically not much of a selection of Fjords for sale anywhere (24 Fjords on the sale website, hundreds of Belgians..also with training).

You will get a lot more Belgian for the money with much more potential selections of personalities that will fit your needs than with a rare breed. How many Kladubers, Ahkel Tekes or Keiger mustangs are there to choose from...same with Fjords.

Not knocking the breed at all, but it's a rare breed and not the cheapest or most efficient way to solve the "problem" slc talked about.

[slc2]

i don't really feel any reasonably well muscled animal will be able to hold up to this kind of work.

thanks trakehner, if we can find a smaller belgian that might really work out well, though i can't ever recall seeing a small one, that may be because i'm at shows and looking at the hitchier types. sorry but the price of the fjord babies is just too much for us, 5 grand is very expensive for a young horse for farm work, i'm not even sure people new to driving should get a baby and train it; in any case, we're getting under way in the fall, and a baby wouldn't be able to work for several years, so that wouldn't work out for us. some of our implements would have to be modified as well, that's not cheap. we'd like to go from 15-16 hands and stick with something lacking the huge size and mass of the most ideal draft types. this is what i call a 'farm horse'. not monstrous in size, not really small, either, and an easy keeper. i really don't think i'd consider a purebred morgan due to the price, again. and i really don't think that the ones we have around here are of the old type or at all suitable for draft. around here, they tend to either look like saddlebreds or be be big bodied with small legs. again, the size is an issue and i don't want a horse under 15 h or of a saddle horse type pulling implements in heavy soil in spring. that just isn't fair to the animal.

i really wish to heck i could get an ardennes around here (not cheap i'm sure if they were around here) or find another one like the 15 hh percheron stallion i taught some dressage. he was not suitable as a show horse but what a good worker. maybe i can find something like that again.

[goodhors]

For what you want, I would be shopping in the broke/trained horse dept. I would go with a bit of age, 8 or up, been used a bit. For working farm horses you need to talk to farmers, hitch horse people. Some places to check are other driving people, horse auctions for names, the local elevator sells him feed, finding the draft horse clubs. Here in the Midwest, there are extensive networks of "heavy horse people" who do Plow Days, Show, Pulling horse events, Fairs, Wagon Train things. You just have to find a starting place. They all know each other to refer you around. Sometimes the events will be listed in your area local horse newspaper of coming events. Our Equine Times covers ALL horse activities sent in on their calendar for 4 states around.

Horse type sounds like you need a solid, medium body, classic western chunk already suggested. My grandpa used to get his chunks from 'Out of the West, by Rail', down in the freight yard. Ha Ha, not many like them anymore.
There are more chunks available, but not real inexpensive. Being marketed as the "heavy Hunter, or any other english discipline, Wamblood". I am speaking of the half-draft crosses being bred everywhere. There are a LOT in our area, not cute enough to sell for riding. Sometimes look like a committee built them. Small bodies, large feet, legs, drafty heads. Big bodies, small feet, not great movement, rough gaited.

I suggest you buy such a horse broke, because the things you want to do, require a steady horse, practiced in working with equipment. You can easily get hurt with training drafts and machinery. They train in Pairs so solid horse holds down the scared one until it learns!! When the seller brags about horse being spreader broke, that means he should be able to do almost everything. Pulling and unloading with spreader is hard work, noisy, uncomfortable because they jerk around so with ground drive chain. Hitch and drive the horse attached to different equipment before taking him home.
I would want something around 15-16h, 1300-1600 pounds, big feet, big boned. My grandfather farmed with that size all his life, they were good workers, economical to feed, handled a good load, all the machinery. Tall horse is harder to harness, lifting that heavy leather. His smaller horses could always outpull much larger horses at the Fairs, until they would start to slip in the grass. He didn't ask them for anymore try then. He never shod them except in winter, put a lot of miles on them.

Our local plow days have a real variety of breeds show up, often pictured in the newspaper. Usually all pairs though. Ponies, mixed breeds, to regular draft breeds. I would start asking with those kind of horse users, doing what you want to horse to do.

John Hammond in New Hampshire breeds both Cleveland Bays and Suffolks, does crosses also. Very nice looking young horses, quiet, kindly, solid bodied. He might be a good connection to start with for heavy horses. I am not sure where you are located or who could help you.

There are good and poor Amish, just like anyone else, but easy targets. I know a number of very good Amish people, do great jobs with horses, sell and train quality animals. Kind of like picking on black haired people, they are not all the same, just all black haired.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slc:
we'd like to get a farm horse that can pull a cart on the road, manure spreader, mower and possibly some other implements on the farm. does anyone have some suggestions about breed, age, sources to find farm horses, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Cartfall]

How about the Gypsy Vanners? I know nothing about their prices, but they are being bred here in the states now and are about the size you are looking for. They are a draft but on the smallish side.

We see smallish Belgian at our driving shows quite often.

It seems to me that what you are looking for is a draft cross--not a warmblood, but something mostly draft. We don't see a lot of those down here in Florida.

Haflingers are strong and come in 15+ hands. They aren;t all that expensive and there are breeders all over the place.

[slc2]

i would not use a real warmblood for this use, this is not suitable. i'm not sure of a draft cross as so often they have very poor conformation and can be priced absolutely outrageously. they can go for double or triple what warmblood babies go for.

gypsy vanners are extremely expensive, far more than morgans, halflingers or any of the other breeds mentioned. and i would never, ever buy one. not in a million years. the hair is just impractical and the prices insane.

[Cherry]

Slc, you might try starting here (http://www.smallfarmersjournal.com/.docs/pg/links.html). Decide which breeds interest you, contact the organizations and find out what breeders are near you.

There are also plenty of publications that list work horses for sale. You might luck into finding that three-quarter/one-quarter horse you spoke of, but I can tell you from living in Amish country that the Amish use draft horses, draft mules and sometimes, in an emergency, the family horse they use to pull their carriage--that would be a Standardbred, or a Morgan but I've never seen a Saddlebred, or a three-quarter anything hitched to a horse drawn piece of equipment!

There are plenty of work horses advertised in the farm trade publications, like The Draft Horse Journal (http://www.drafthorsejournal.com/classifiedads/classifiedads.htm) and Lancaster Farming (http://www.lancasterfarming.com/). Depending on where you are located there are plenty of farming publications to choose from, and probably a horse sitting in someone's pasture waiting to be purchased. Network, network, network! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

There are some folks who teach others how to drive and farm with horses--if you do a Google I'm sure you can find them... They might have trained horses for sale as well....

Happy shopping! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Warmheart]

slc, Why don't you go to http://www.ruralheritage.com and take a look at their classifieds. They have a draft/team swap meet. Most of these people are teamsters that have trained horses for sale. When I sold my warmbloods giving up my dreams of Dressage ( too many DQ's and my health could not keep up), a boarder who frequents the Internet ads sent me an ad for this Belgian filly. What would I do with a young filly. Why drive of course ! Turns out she is not desirable for show, she's a blonde and she still has her tail ( thank goodness) and she was young to boot. Though I must say, she is certainly not small but eats less than any of the other horses on the farm. So I made the deal with the owner, bought her for little $$ , and was able to send her off for training. She is still not three, yet a solid citizen in harness( good trainer ). I think that buying this horse is the same as buying any horse. It is out there, you just have to know where to look and when to turn your nose up. I think that the rural heritage site is your best answer. And of course, I am partial to my Belgian. Why Belgian? When I was researching Draft horses, Shire was the first choice. MR Heart is a Shire fan from way back but after a little research, I realized that I did not want the task of taking care of those feathers. We live in a boggy, muddy area and I feared terrible skin infections or having to constantly clip the feathers off. So consider the maintenance factor too. There are small drafts out there and they will be trained and in your price range, since everyone else wants a BIG one. Good Luck.

[slc2]

found at ruralheritage, 15 h pair, trained, broke...cool! thanks warmheart!

[suz]

hey slc,i'm wondering why you didn't consider haflingers. are they too small for your purposes? i'm looking for a work cart to start using around the farm with my mare. she's 13'3,just the right size to handle by myself, and very nimble and powerful. the tractors do all of the real work around here,,i'll just be fooling around. i do think that she can do ten times what i ask of her. she's got a great work ethic(that's because she's happy to have my undivided attention),and lots of strength. can't honestly speak of her stamina,i've never tested her. anyway,i was just wondering.

[goponies]

I would second the haflingers! They're strong, not too big, hardy and barely eat anything!

One other breed that some might know is the Cheval Canadien. Around here, you can get a good driving one with experience on the farm for not a whole lot of money. They were bred for the work on the farm all week and to drive the family to church on Sunday.
They are small (although getting bigger in size) and very hardy.

[slc2]

the horse would be doing some pretty serious work, including logging, stump pulling and other hard work. i don't think a single small horse would be fairly asked to do so.

[x]

I use a team of HaflingerX here--they do everything from pull manure spreader to haying work. They've also done logging in the past. They weigh in at about 1600# for the team. I like them because they have great feet--I only shoe them in winter for traction, and they'll go all day. They are easy keepers, and I love the smaller size for harnessing.
Someone suggested the Rural Heritage site...I'll second that; lots of great info and advice there, as well as team listings.

[hitchinmygetalong]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slc:
the horse would be doing some pretty serious work, including logging, stump pulling and other hard work. i don't think a single small horse would be fairly asked to do so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, beg to differ. That's what Morgans were originally reknowned for. And they are out there, and they aren't so ungodly expensive that you can't invest in one. Open your eyes and do a little homework. I've got one sitting out at the barn that cost $1500. He can and will do it all. The harder the work, the more you will get out of him.

One quick google search came up with this:

http://www.posmhorse.com/default.asp

I know NOTHING about this group, could be a bunch of crackpots for all I know. I just hate to see someone turning their back on a breed because the few individuals they have come across are not true representatives.

I never like to get into a heated discussion with slc, but bring it on. I've been around Morgans since the 60's and believe me, I've seen all the fads come and go and I've seen what the show horse influence has done. But there is still a strong core of good foundation-type Morgans out there.

[Drive NJ]

slc
Word of caution. The only pair likely to stay around 15 and a little hands was that pair of paint mares. The others were young horses like to grow more - Drafts and crosses grow until 6-7 yo.

[NightMare]

Check out the Canadian Horse. Also, there are a lot of draft crosses out there that do have good conformation, are not too big or expensive. I have a draft X appy that is mighty, but only 15hh.

[hitchinmygetalong]

I just had a thought. Those PMU foals/yearlings are super cheap, draft x whatever, seem like pretty decent animals.

[Warmheart]

Hey slc, I was wondering **** have you ever done any of this your self or do you have an experienced person that is going to do all of this for you?? I really have no experience with any of this but "I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif and I think that by the time you have invested in a team, work harness to do the job as well as the hardware ( I am sure it is individualized for each specific purpose i.e. skidding logs, pulling stumps etc ) that I am thinking that it would be more economical to just have it done by someone else. I just get tired thinkng about all the work that goes into getting stumps up. I have done it with tractors and it is still a pain even with a good tractor and backhoe. Why don't you contact Jason Rutledge on the rural heritage site. He is really nice and does not sugar coat his anwsers. I have emailed him once or twice when horse researching and he seems to be a very practical horseman.
Check out the links on this site. Jason Rutledge is ( as far as I know) in with ( or is ) the "Healing Harvest Foundation "

http://www.vdhma.org/links.html

[horselips]

Geeze, slc why don't you just go to the Sugar Creek auction in Wayne county, or Smokey Lane auction in Stark county (I think Stark) ?

You're sure to find someting cheap there. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ChocoMare]

Or try DraftsForSale.com (http://www.draftsforsale.com/)-- You can choose pure or mixed breeds. There are plenty of good, driving, working horses for sale. They do have some Suffolk Punchs available (would be my personal choice).

If you need the "stuff" to go along with said draft horse, there's DraftHorseStuff.com (http://www.drafthorsestuff.com)

[slc2]

hitch, if i don't want to get a morgan, i don't have to get a morgan. it doesn't mean i'm stupid or don't have my eyes 'open'. just because someone has a different idea than you doesn't mean they aren't doing their homework or don't have their eyes open. i gave my reasons up above and the reasons are valid for this area. i love morgans. i'm just not getting one right now. are you ok with that? good. if not, that's fine too. unless you move in next door and start coming over every day ranting about morgans, i don't have to listen to it, so i'm perfectly happy. if you did come over every day and ranted about it, i have a 22 filled with salt and nails. you'll get the point...in the end HA HA HA HAHA.

as far as not being experienced at this and it being a lot of work, what's your point? my SO wants to learn this, and so do i. i have no problem with that, in fact if my SO shows interest in ANYTHING at all i'm happy, he has addison's disease, he isn't going to be around forever, and by god if he wants to do something we're going to do it come hell or high water. we'll have a tractor too. the tractor will dig the fence post holes etc.

[QueenMother]

How about a tractor?

[slc2]

you must have missed the post about me falling in love with the tractor salesman, and the post above. not only am i getting a draft horse, and not a morgan, halflinger or fjord, i'm also getting a tractor. the draft horses are incredibly cheap. i can get a trained draft team and all their equipment for what i'd pay for one untrained fjord. do the math. one possibility is that my friend said she had seen belgian/halflinger crosses but they were still more money than a belgian.

[Warmheart]

OOOOKKKAAAYYY!!!! I am all for learning new things and everyone needs a purpose. I think that we are just trying to be helpful. I still suggest the contacting of some experienced teamsters or loggers since there could be dangers that we ( including myself ) are totally unaware of. On some of the sites referred to you, they have information about seminars, clinics and schools for those that wish to learn the techniques.
Oh, BTW, living with two males that are udderly ( pun http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) involved with motorsports racing, try getting some sort of interest or help can be somewhat of an issue. So, I feel your pain and desire to jump on that little spark. Again, good luck and let us know how it turns out. I'm sure you will have some humorous stories to tell.

[FairWeather]

um, couldnt you buy....oh....I dunno....a tractor? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[slc2]

why yes, wouldn't that be a lovely idea.

[Hilary]

Well, I was going to suggest a haffie, but I see they are on your no list.

The drafts my family used "back in the day" were called "canadian chunk" and they were what you usually found on small new england farms. They did everything. They hayed, they logged, they pulled the milk wagon all over town.

I have no idea where you would buy a team nowadays, if they even exist. They were smaller than some of today's drafts, but were full sized drafts none-the-less, and you keep saying you don't want a draft because they were too big, but you want a big horse because anything else will be too small for the work you want to do. What exactly do you want? A draft or a not draft?

Horses are really tough. Most of us don't work them nearly as hard as they are capable of doing. Are you dabbling for fun in figuring out how to work your farm with horses or are you doing it for real, trying to hay, spread, log with only your animals? What kind of horse you need will depend on your answer. I would guess that a haffie team would be able to help you do the first scenario. They are draft animals, but smaller ones.

I asked my mom who grew up on the farm when they used all horse labor about how they managed to hay so much field. She said it took all summer. You cut a little bit, you bring it in, you cut a little more, you bring it in. All this while doing the work of a dairy farm, and other farm chores. There were 4 men doing this work, full time.

We now hay 20 acres with a 50hp tractor and it's hella work.

I hope you find what you are looking for and enjoy your farm.

[slc2]

i want a draft horse, but a small one. not pony size. as stated earlier, 15-16 hands, probably closer to 15. not a full size draft, not a pony. as stated earlier, will do some work with tractor, and some with horse.

we will not be doing a big operation, as stated before, there will be occasional hard work when a project comes up.

and i've found several sources so will be fine when the time comes. a couple people who breed drafts and have suitable horses have contacted me, and i will have no trouble finding exactly what i want when the time comes. thanks so much everyone for all the incredibly helpful suggestions.

[hitchinmygetalong]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slc:
hitch, if i don't want to get a morgan, i don't have to get a morgan. it doesn't mean i'm stupid or don't have my eyes 'open'. just because someone has a different idea than you doesn't mean they aren't doing their homework or don't have their eyes open. i gave my reasons up above and the reasons are valid for this area. i love morgans. i'm just not getting one right now. are you ok with that? good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely. No argument.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">if not, that's fine too. unless you move in next door and start coming over every day ranting about morgans, i don't have to listen to it, so i'm perfectly happy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, sorry if I came across as ranting. Just wanted to point out that Morgans (in general) are NOT expensive, and Morgans (in general) are multi-purpose horses suitable to light draft work. They seemed to fit the parameters you set out in your first post, and when the breed was mentioned you noted they were a) expensive, and b) had an unsuitable body type. I was ONLY trying to show you that this *might* be an incorrect assumption on your part based on what you have seen in your area.

Are you ok with that? GOOD.

[slc2]

since my area is where i have to get the horse, it would be correct, actually. have a baileys and forget about it, is my advice. i'm not getting a morgan. i have been to 6 morgan barns here, i'm not getting one. i can get a draft for half or less of what they cost. money is a factor, and included in the estimates are the fact that i have a huge community of extremely suitable, almost made to order, size, sex, training and everything else, draft horses east and south within 1/2 hr drive which makes it even cheaper. the draft horses are just that cheap. even pmu's are more.

my question should be at this point, quite naturally, what is wrong with me getting a draft horse? i don't see any reason to get a more expensive horse from further away that is less like what i want. all this beast will do is chores and keep my other beast company. we aren't going to ride it so there is no point in getting a ride and drive breed. the small drafty chunk types are perfect, and unbeknownst to me when i first posted, there are TONS of people out there with plenty of smaller, less hitchy drafts for sale, which is really all i needed to know - thanks for the links trakehner and others. hardy, sound for the sort of work they are intended for and a breeze for anyone else around to handle. couldn't be more perfect. i love drafts for this sort of thing. don't see any reason why they are so unsuitable or why i have to get something more costly, just to have something more exotic and cute standing around. i don't need anything exotic. i just don't want a great tall hitchy type. and there are plenty out there just like what the doctor ordered.

so the question remains, why is it so important that i don't get one? why are so many determined that's a bad choice?

[scramarama]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by slc:
i want a draft horse,..
as stated earlier, will do some work with tractor, and some with horse...
there will be occasional hard work when a project comes up...QUOTE]

go back to rural heritage and research your pipe dream of a working horse a little more carefully. you could be setting yourself up for the biggest pita you've ever known and the horse up for a lot of pain and suffering. learn how to feed it properly. figure out before the fact that you can't just work a draft horse hard when the work comes up. do you have time to keep a non riding horse properly fit? are you going to actually do that? make it and keep it fit even though you will only need it occasionally? to be honest your post comes across like the post of someone who wants a pet but has no idea about the upkeep and is in for a great big shock when the first little thing goes wrong or compromises their idyllic dream. buying a draft horse and expecting to treat it like a tractor is foolish, foolhardy and quite possibly could turn out to be cruel. honestly that post makes it sound like you are in possession of the same degree of ignorance as the man asking whether it was ok to feed his horses only on weekends. ignorance of horsecare is nothing to be ashamed of but it certainly is something to be remedied especially by those who profess a certain degree of education in all matters horse.

[scramarama]

i do believe that my post mostly answers your most recent question as to why not get a draft horse. further to that, i will say that if you get a horse that is not broke to ride/comfortable to ride/rideable in some way or other then you severely limit your methods of keeping said horse fit. why on earth, if you have to keep the horse fit in between working it would you not want a horse that is rideable? you may as well work on your riding skills while you maintain the horse's fitness. it stands to reason that a more versatile horse and one less likely to succumb to monday morning disease would be the way to go. i am anything but anti-draft owning a draft cross and having worked with and enjoyed many drafts and draft crosses but if you think you can throw one in the pasture and then haul it out a couple of times a year for heavy work you are sadly mistaken. further still there are many warmbloods out there that certainly could do the work and even excell at it but i completely understand not wanting to put the expense into a warmblood. your glass is half full. go add a few more drams with a few more weeks educational reading.

[horselips]

WHAT SLCK "REALLY" WANTS:

As usual to jerk on everyone's chain, rattle cages, etc, because she's bored and mental. Like can spot like http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WHEN will the rest of you realize - because WAY many more of us already know - she merely wants attention, a debate, to contradict everyone and belittle many. Not ALL of us are that stupid, slick.

Those of you in doubt need only to trouble yourselves to REALLY read all of her posts, to see that she enjoys baiting people.


Really slick, if you've nothing better to do with your control-freak life, go on the Jerry Springer show, and get it out of your system.


You're giving the rest of us Northeast Ohioans a bad name.

[Sparks5]

EXACTLY Horselips!!

Slick (love the handle btw) has stated that she:

Does NOT want a full Draft
Does NOT want a full Warmblood
Does NOT want a Fjord
Does NOT want a Hafflinger
Does NOT want a Morgan
Does NOT want a Big Horse
Does NOT want a Small Horse
Does NOT want to spend appropriate cash to get appropriate horse

Since Slick just purchased a beef cattle dude ranch, maybe she should consider buying a chunky ole ranch broke quarter horse that she can rope cows with, pull stumps, and practice the cowboy dressage that she just adores. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Seriously, slc, if you want a mid sized horse who is strong and versatile, I would strongly suggest a Morgan. That's my vote.

[Sparks5]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slc:
we'd like to get a farm horse that can pull a cart on the road, manure spreader, mower and possibly some other implements on the farm. does anyone have some suggestions about breed, age, sources to find farm horses, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">my question should be at this point, quite naturally, what is wrong with me getting a draft horse? i don't see any reason to get a more expensive horse from further away that is less like what i want. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um hunny, it sounds like your answer was solidified before you even began the thread. So why did you even bother?

[LostFarmer]

A QHxbelgain or Perch woould make a good chunk. I personally like the percheron as they typically have a little more fire. I use my ponies/horses for a varity of farm uses. I personally like the small horse large pony size but that is just me. I feed with a team over 90 days a year, harrow, rake and otherwise use them. I even pull them a little at the local horse pulls.

My advise is buy the horse you want and have fun. If you have neve driven or worked a team an over the hill team of nags is not a bad place to start and learn. Would you put a green rider on green event horse and say go teach yourself? I doubt it. The same is true for working a horse or team. They MUST have a whoa and a stand if not you a wreck waiting to happen.

Here are a few pics of my team playing.

sleigh (http://home.ripway.com/2005-1/240655/Horses/horse4.jpg)
pulling (http://home.ripway.com/2005-1/240655/Horses/pulling/Pull2.jpg)

[Sannois]

I know this is pointless, BUT I was going to say Sufolk Punch as well! Awesome Breed, Small Solid, Cute And serious workers with a lovely temperment. Rural Heritage has done segments on them and US breeders on RFD.
Knowing full well my answer will be poo pooed http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[hitchinmygetalong]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LostFarmer:
A QHxbelgain or Perch woould make a good chunk. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmmm. Back to the suggestion of a PMU horse?

[Warmheart]

Well, my final answer is **** an OX. Thats my suggestion and I'm standing by it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Cherry]

Warmheart, http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif !

That would certainly lay a lot of "yes, buts" to rest and you don't have to ride it! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[CHS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As usual to jerk on everyone's chain, rattle cages, etc, because she's bored and mental. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That gets my vote!!!!!!!

[Sannois]

People who are serious about using stock to Log and plow etc. seem to choose Oxen. Whatch Rural Heritage, very interesting! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Cherry]

Originally posted by horselips:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Those of you in doubt need only to trouble yourselves to REALLY read all of her posts, to see that she enjoys baiting people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it's not the posts that are as telling as slick's responses to those posts.... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I guess no forum on here is safe.... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[Cartfall]

Slc, go find your self a John Deere. You can find them used(in your terms cheap), leave them out in the pasture forever and then work the crap out of them when you feel like it. If they break, then you can leave them sit because you won;t want to pay the vet bill! Again that cheap factor you have been so vocal about.

[hitchinmygetalong]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Warmheart:
Well, my final answer is **** an OX. Thats my suggestion and I'm standing by it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And when it is too old to work, you can eat it.

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Did I say that?

(just kidding - http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

[Cherry]

Hitch--yes, you did! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Yeah, you can eat it right down to the tail! (Ox-tail soup).... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Warmheart]

Sannois, You are so right about the heavy horses. I spent a lot of time up on Rural Heritage, asking questions of whoever would anwser me. I realized a lot of what I was getting into when I decided to go Draft, or so I thought. The one thing that I did not count on was the amount of urine and poop. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I am lucky that mine can stay out 24/7 so that work load is not as bad but I still have to go in a clean out the run in. Also, doubled my grooming time as well. One side and I am tiii-rrr-ed !! Let's not even go to the feet. Fortunately my farrier had an extra hoof holder for a stand and gave it too me. Mr. Heart fashioned a stand for it and I can truely say that Miss Rosie and I are much happier. I am not struggling to hold her foot up to clean it and she has a foot rest. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I kind of gathered from slck's second or third post that this could be a "flavor of the month" or a ket's rattle some chains thing, but that is why I suggested Rural Heritage and the expansive knowledge there.
I also had dreams of grandeur at logging my back 5 acres which has about 50 to 80 trees - pine of all trees,YUCK!!! Changed my mind ! REalized that it was a bit more than we could chew on, so will wait till I win the lottery and have someone come in a take down the selected trees to open up more pasture.
But as I said earlier, I am all for learning new things and trying new experiences, just go into it with your eyes wide open.

OX Tail soup -- YUM !!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[LostFarmer]

Warmheart, Good to know I'm not the only one that visits the RH site and here. I guess I am just a little redneck for this site. Not a problem with me, and you all haven't kicked me off yet.

[Cherry]

LostFarmer--you're safe as long as you stick to the Driving Forum.... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Galileo1998]

An ass http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif Yep, another ass on the farm and all your manure should be spread with no problems.

[x]

Depending on how her place is run, she could keep a draft in shape enough with regular chores. I run a full-sized stable, and the team I have spreads at least three loads of manure each time we clean the stalls...as well as doing other stuff. This does keep them in shape.
I would point out, however, that SLC, if serious about using a horse for working, might find that she needs a team...tough to haul a manure spreader with just one. If you have a spreader designed for horses, it is usually set up with a pole for a team, and if you decide to use a forecart/ground-drive spreader, a forecart set up with shafts is usually not heavy enough for the job. In addition, while a 15H draft might have a fair amount of pull in it, if it decides its too tough, then you've got a problem. Also depends on draft, which is dependent on how full you fill the spreader, type of tires, type of ground, etc.
Anyhow, twitching logs, etc. can be done with a single horse fine...it sounds as though she'll be twitching for her own pleasure, not for commercial or heavy work. She won't hook on a huge log, but she'll be o.k. Probably the bigger thing for "keeping the horse in-shape" is keeping it in-shape MENTALLY to work rather than physically--what she's described isn't super hard work, but if not worked regularly, they can become 'fresh' like any horse. One caution would be if you want to go single horse, make sure it has been worked single! Just because it works in a team does NOT mean it will work without its teammate. And, if you do get a team, it is helpful to know which side which horse works best on!! Didn't know this when I got mine, and figured it out after getting one over the pole a couple of times.
Finally, the "ideal" size for working is a team of #1600 each horses. I, too, had a 15.2H Belgian, and had though about getting another and keeping it...but I find my draft ponies, in shape, can do as much as I need while eating less, and being easier to harness. When looking at drafts, pay attention to their feet; there are some that have great feet, and some that do not. Much easier to deal with good feet. Finally, be prepared to get a set of stocks if you are buying from someone who uses stocks to shoe/trim with--tough to teach them otherwise.

[Drive NJ]

X's comment on checking if the horse has worked single reminded me of that old joke about the farmer driving down the road with his big draft Jack who found a motorist who had driven his car into a ditch. The farmer offered to help and proceeded to rig some rope to the horse's harness. He called out HUP Jack HUP Molly and Jack gave a might heave and pulled the car out of the ditch. The confused driver asked the farmer "why did you call for Jack and Molly? Clearly there is only the one horse"

"Well," said the farmer, "Jack is blind, but he's not dumb. He wouldn't have pulled all that weight out if he had to do it on his own"

Whether slc wrote to start trouble or not, we've sure all learned a lot more about working horses and all you people who work your horses... keep talking, its interesting.

And by the way she mentioned receiving loads of sources for small drafts and crosses. Don't forget we are still searching for Alex's new partner.

[slc2]

i did not write to start trouble. i wrote to find out about a topic. i am not required to agree with every reply, or to run out and buy exactly what a specific posts says i should buy. that's not a requirement of membership here.

if you want to start a fight about this topic, you'll have to find someone else to fight with. i'm not interested, we're very busy and we have a great deal of work to get done in the next couple months.

i appreciate the useful and informative posts. as for the character assassination ones, here's a quote from peter tosh:

"if you live in a glass house don't trow stones".

it's good advice.

i had no idea that there was such a large group of working horse fanciers outside the amish in our area, and there are plenty of the type of horse i'm looking for (small draft horse), and tons of knowledgeable resources. this has been very useful. i had no idea there were still so many smaller draft horses available.

since i was quite young i've noticed that draft horses are always advertised as to what side they work on, whether single or not, etc, so i was aware of that, and one dealer yesterday told me that older horses can't often be changed round, so be careful when looking at the older ones that are set in their ways, don't assume it can be changed. we saw some horses yesterday right in our area that will be fine both for size and build, all under 2000 dollars and all with training at several different implements.

i don't think we'll get a team and for those of you who feel we must, i hope you aren't too offended, and i hope that you will find the strength to forgive us for not following what is obviously excellent advice.

however, we're trying to keep our operation small. and as for those who are concerned that i won't keep the horse fit or feed it properly, you don't need to be concerned about that. we keep our horses fit and we feed them properly. we also understand that if horses are not worked regularly they get fresh. i can assure you that we work our horses far more regularly than most people do. i'm sure you would be sorely offended if someone else was 'concerned' about whether you would keep your horses fit or well fed, especially when stated as stated above. i have no interest in indulging in a snarkfest on the subject, if you do have that interest you will have to find someone else to do it with as we are very, very busy.

yesterday i was driving by a place that would be much like ours. talked to the owner for awhile about his draft pair. they are 'husband horses' and he has a lot of fun with them.

oh. i just remembered. no one could answer my question. why NOT a draft breed?

[Cherry]

Originally posted by Sparks5

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Um hunny, it sounds like your answer was solidified before you even began the thread. So why did you even bother? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[CHS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">why NOT a draft breed? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously you've never harnessed a big horse before. I have an 18+ hand percheron gelding that we use for sleigh rides. Those harnesses are HEAVY!!! I struggle and I'm no weakling.
M

[slc2]

"it sounds like your answer was solidified before you even began the thread" oh, oh UP, even with another name, you're still so....delightful. i had the temerity to disagree with this lady on one thread ages ago and she's had her claws out for me ever since. no one is allowed to not agree with such an authority as she.

well, actually, someone who has been handling and riding horses for 40 years is probably going to start out with some idea of what they want, some preferences, etc..

and again, actually, i am not required to agree with everything that is posted, especially when most of them are self evident parts of the endeavor. not all the 'suggestions' are going to be suitable. and, actually, saying 'i disagree' is not an attack or a condemnation of a person, but a very, very simple statement, and one that probably should not provoke rage, hysteria or resentment.

"obviously you've never harnessed a big horse before"

actually, obviously, i have, and you don't know what i have and haven't done in my life. i'll give a suggestion - don't try to guess. it's been an extremely long and very eventful life.

and you read the part where i said i wanted a small horse? we aren't getting an 18 hand horse for that reason, and for many others.

a 15 hand horse is 12 inches shorter than an 18 hand horse, and they are far easier to harness.

although i did work at one farm years ago where the harness and handler was hung up next to the horses, and the horses stood down about 2 feet lower in a sort of lower aisle, and the kids who harnessed the horses had no trouble lifting because they didn't have to lift it.

another reason for the smaller horse is shoeing. many farriers don't want to shoe the gigantic draft horses. we've been assured by several farriers that they WILL shoe the smaller ones.

as far as the manure, my SO is extremely thrilled about the manure part. he's thrilled about making compost with a tractor instead of by hand.

heavy harness? we have been advised to use synthetic harness, which is far lighter. smuckers already provided some facts and figures on that - but too, the synthetic costs less than half of what the leather does. i'm not sure why you'd persist in using a heavy harness that you can barely handle when other products are available. much of the product is nearly impossible to tell from leather.

there are also buckle-in collars available which are far easier to put on. again, i don't know why you'd suffer along without making your life easier, unless you can't afford to get the other, that i can understand. and i got email from one guy who has a 90 yr old neighbore who hangs the harness above the horses with a pulley rope. when he wants to harness he lowers it. pulleys make it easier to lift a weight than with the arms. we can also purchase stands for every implement, and very very simply hook up and undo. we also looked at covers for the equipment. they look like a carport, sort of, but there are other ways, and many people just leave implements out.

i can assure you - having possible problems thrown up in the way isn't going to put anyone off of doing somethign they really want to do. it's good to knwo the potential pitfalls and to gather information, of course. and if we find out it's not quite for us, that isn't exactly any skin off of anyone else's nose. if the workhorse part doesn't work out we'll still have a very nice horse to keep ours company. or, if we sell her to someone else, no ships will sink and no people will die. remember there are other issues to consider too, such as getting along with the other horses and whether our operation winds up morphing into something very different than we first planned.

be that as it may if someone wants to do something, they can find a way to simplify it and make it more pleasant and more fitting to their situation. if they think about it. ok, so if anyone who actually has some useful advice wants to weigh in - they can post it here. or, like quite a few people who told me this thread has 'deteriorated' to the personal attack level where they don't want to post here, they can post a pm.

[scramarama]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">we are very, very busy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
slc, she's good people http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> this thread has 'deteriorated' to the personal attack level </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You've had masses of excellent information on this thread. Perhaps if you were a little more gracious in 1.recieving it, 2.ignoring the crap you don't want to use, 3.laughing at the jokes then the sky wouldn't open and pour smelly brown rain all over your thread. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Warmheart]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LostFarmer:
Warmheart, Good to know I'm not the only one that visits the RH site and here. I guess I am just a little redneck for this site. Not a problem with me, and you all haven't kicked me off yet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, I spend most of my time there just reading and trying to learn different things.
So I guess, thus the name, eh ? Lost over at the COTH. Not really lost but probably right in line with the earth.
It is people like you who will be feeding most of us when all heck breaks loose.

x, great information. I love hearing from people with experience because their "negative comments" mixed in with their experiences should be lessons for anyone listening. I use the "negative comment" label since I have had boarders who have labeled some of my advice upon their leaving to go get a farm on their own. Sometimes listening to those negative perceived comments can save you allot of heartache when you are ear deep on a muddy or frozen farm, needing to feed and water horses wondering how to do so cause the pipes are frozen, can't get the tractor unstuck since you thought the 4 wheel drive would just get it out, but it is up to the axles anyway. Or those 7 acres need mowing in the heat of the summer amidst all the deer flies, horse flies and other nasties.
So, slck, 40 years, I guess that makes us about even, and I respect some of your thoughts on things, sometimes right in line with my thinking but I am too understanding to attack in such a way some times. You asked and got some good information, we had some good laughs along with that Bailey's you offered. So do you fall under Justice, Grace or Mercy?
BTW, howdy Cartfall, how's Fla. driving?
So this thread is deteriorating. Not if I can help it. I can't think of a thread that has had so much participation in a long time, at least here.
My driving has been very slow the last week or two, but I love my girl. She forgives me and my disabilities. I really think that if I had the knowledge I have now about "big horses" I probably would have gone for a Fjord, Halflinger or something like it. I probably did bite off more than I could chew, but she is mine and we care for each other, I am the only one who has to kiss her nighty night and forgive her for her mischievousness, which by the way, slc, drafts ( even the small ones ) can be somewhat, destructive on the things that light horses respect. so don't take your fencing, stabling or any living area for your draft for granted.
Once school is out, next Friday, I will have SonHeart home and we will get more in then. The yahoo's had a party across the street ( it is about 400'- 500' from our barn) at the community center last night, so all of our horses were a little on edge today. They had a DJ with very loud music, lots of RN's partying. It wasn't until the fireworks started going off that we had to walk over to let them know that the horses could not take that. I had one thoroughbred that was about the jump out of her skin. I shut her outside door, turned her fan on and turned the radio up to about a 1000 decibels and still could not get her calmed some. They were good though, they did stop the fireworks when we asked. I was going to drive Rosie today but opted not too since she was a little spooky. They still had their tent and volleyball net up and they were over there cleaning up. So taking advantage of the situation, I long lined her all over the place, up to the tent, VB net and to the people cleaning. Thanking them the whole time for ceasing the fireworks. Asked them to keep going about their business so that Miss Rosie could desensitize a little. She was really very good about all of it and I probably could have driven but I figured that I would rather guarantee myself a good work out rather than risk an experience that I would have to overcome later on.
As for now, it is almost time to feed and start dinner. I will drive tomorrow, by golly !!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[scramarama]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">forgive her for her mischievousness, which by the way, slc, drafts ( even the small ones ) can be somewhat, destructive on the things that light horses respect. so don't take your fencing, stabling or any living area for your draft for granted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for that. My guy is currently out on lease so I am not reminded daily of what a character he is http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif You just brought a billion stories flooding to mind http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sitting on the deck having a brewski of an afternoon is definitely not allowed. About 1/2 a beer into a nice sit down the fence checking would begin. Systematically, board by board, working from closest to the revellers to further into the mosquito infested woods, he would tug and pry on each end of each and every board. When a loose one was found he would pull it off and stare at us for a moment before moving on to check the next one. Sooner or later someone would go down with a hammer and start properly supervised (rub my face now please and btw I have an itch on my withers) repairs. He could take a fence down to the bottom board but would never leave. A friend advised that it would be easier to just draw a chalk line in the dirt http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Another favourite (until we got the message) was to disassemble the wall between him and his broodmare buddy. He would only take it down to a certain height each time which was just barely above step over height. We would with great pains bang the boards back into place in the tight fitting slots. He would again remove the top few effortlessly. Repeat. After playing this game for several weeks and never having a problem with fighting over the rather diminutive wall we gave in and took the top boards out. He never touched the stall wall again. It just had to be to his height specifications.

Drafts can be persistent and are often better at judging a situation than we stupid humans. The best lesson is to listen carefully and watch for the sense of humour!

[Jo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slc:
again, i don't know why you'd suffer along without making your life easier </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So explain to me how this means you should get a draft instead of a John Deere?

[CHS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">a 15 hand horse is 12 inches shorter than an 18 hand horse, and they are far easier to harness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No really? Where are you going to find a 15 hand full draft? Do they make dwarf drafts? The smallest one I ever had was a 16.2 hand older style (read small) belgian. I have yet to see a purebred that's 15 hands.

[Warmheart]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CHS:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">a 15 hand horse is 12 inches shorter than an 18 hand horse, and they are far easier to harness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No really? Where are you going to find a 15 hand full draft? Do they make dwarf drafts? The smallest one I ever had was a 16.2 hand older style (read small) belgian. I have yet to see a purebred that's 15 hands. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

CHS, to put it as eloquently as possible.
LET IT GO !! GO call the Dell Computer guy, they're there 24/7 ?? or is it Gateway??. There are exceptions to every rule out there and slck never said anything about purebred.
Let's keep it as lighthearted as possible. She asked we anwsered to our best, had a few laughs, learned a few things and kept ourselves entertained for a while, in the process of getting the T-Shirt.
Dont' Worry !! BEEE HAP HAP HAPPY !! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[CHS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">CHS, to put it as eloquently as possible.
LET IT GO !! GO call the Dell Computer guy, they're there 24/7 ?? or is it Gateway??. There are exceptions to every rule out there and slck never said anything about purebred.
Let's keep it as lighthearted as possible. She asked we anwsered to our best, had a few laughs, learned a few things and kept ourselves entertained for a while, in the process of getting the T-Shirt.
Dont' Worry !! BEEE HAP HAP HAPPY !! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh I guess I shouldn't offer her my draft mule then? She's only a tad over 15 hands and is half belgian. Oh right but YOU said I need to let it go. LOL
SLC needs a taste of her own meds or at least a taste of the meds she should be on anyway. I've seen her be terribly rude to some very nice people. I honestly could give a rats butt about her or her horse or the horse she buys, but if she opens herself up for critism by all means anyone and everyone should give it back to her.

[slc2]

we'd be perfectly happy with a draft mule, and we looked at two teams yesterday that were purebred suffolk and 15.2 hands.

yes, this is about revenge for somethign in the distant past you didn't agree with, and not information. thanks for stating that publicly and showing your true colors. let it go. i see plenty here i don't agree with or don't like - i treat every day as a new day, and don't lay in wait for someone who once said something i didn't like to ask for info and then pounce all over them.

[egontoast]

I'd get a tractor instead.

I doubt you have ever managed or owned a farm. I expect we would have heard about it by now. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

When all those little and not so little jobs need doing in all kinds of weather, too many to list, and you have to get out the team and harness up, you will wish for a tractor.

A team of draft horses will require all the care, vet, farrier,feeding, etc as any other horses.

Draft horse seems all dreamy and fun though.

[Sannois]

Gotta say that when its 15 degrees and the wind is blowing the John Deere is a welcome sight when you have to empty the spreader! Ohio winters are not much better than MI ones! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

[scramarama]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">this is about revenge </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No. I'm pretty sure it's about entertainment and good and well meant advice. If we all were after revenge or to be rid of you or whatever then we wouldn't be recommending a tractor. We'd be joyous at the thought of you so busy with your draft on a minus 500 Ohio winter day trying to accomplish some dead simple task while nearly freezing your ass clean off that we'd never have mentioned the word tractor. We'd be telling you that tractors are bad, that the only way to really do anything on a farm is with a draft and that it's dead easy and don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise.

Howz that runon sentence workin' for you? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[Sannois]

I so agree scramarama. I cant even imagine doing the draft thing on a daily basis. I think its lovely and Romantic and very nostalgic but NOT really practical, for a person who has a full time job and id training other horses to do Dressage! But heck Thats just me~! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[LostFarmer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I so agree scramarama. I cant even imagine doing the draft thing on a daily basis. I think its lovely and Romantic and very nostalgic but NOT really practical, for a person who has a full time job and id training other horses to do Dressage! But heck Thats just me~! Wink </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I respectfully disagree. I use my team for the small tasks. I wouldn't say that we accomplish more faster than the tractor but it is certainly no longer. I feed 30 head of cattle out on the snow during the winter. I catch the horses, brush, harness and hitch to the wagon or sleigh in 15 to 20 minutes. It takes less than 2 minutes for me to harness. Then I drive to the stack and load 8 to 12 bales. Drive to the gate step off and open it call the horse through and then close the gate. I tie the lines back the correct length and the horses drive up through the field while pitch the hay off.

With the tractor I have to wait for the tractor to warm up and the hydralics ot work. The tractor in maybe 10 minutes faster at this stage but the climbing on and off the rest of the process and I have made up for the time. The tractor is a little warmer but the horses always start.

I have the chores to do either way and to work horses makes it that much more enjoyable. Harrowing it easier with the horses. Mucking out the barn is easier as well. I pull through and pitch it on then pitch it off out in the field.

I wouldn't trade the tractor off but I equally wouldn't traid off the team.

LF

[Sparks5]

Personally, I would LOVE to see Slick get a team of drafts. Then she'd be busy with a REAL LIFE and she wouldn't have 17 bajillion vile posts. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif Maybe we could all get the PEACE that we deserve on this board! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So yes dawling, I would simply loooooove to help you find a suitable horse(s) for the task that lie ahead of you http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[chitowncd]

CHS-

I have a 15.2hh purebred Percheron in my barn as we speak. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif She has papers to prove herself, too. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Years ago, we had a 15.2hh purebred mare who was all farmchunk. No legs, all body. They are out there provided you know where to look. The Topeka, IN sales come to mind.

LostFarmer - did you rig your harness on pulleys? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FWIW, working horses tend to be about as effecient as a tractor - ask the Amish. We trade off harness repairs, daily feedings/muckings/grooming for the ease of turning a key and having a motor start. To be fair, for those who have small acreage, a team is going to be overkill and a small tractor makes a lot more sense. But when it gets into larger farms, a team will equate the work of a tractor.

Michele

[Warmheart]

I have a question of you Draft horse workers. Mind you this is froma small farm owner. Our tractor in the summer time usually stays hooked up to the bush hog or mower. What do you guys use to spread the piles of manure in the the fields. I am not talking about a manure spreader. I want to go out and harrow ( is that the right term? ) the fields and spread the piles. I do mow but we do not mow the pastures low enough to spread/dice the piles. Point me in the right direction. Even though I would love one for the tractor, changing impliments can be pain and maybe, http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Miss Rosie **could** help around the farm a little. I might be able to handle hitching her up to something by myself and do this while Mr. Heart is at work. I am sure that I would need a forecart, right?? Then what do you suggest? ANd something such as this would you suggest a collar and hames set up or would a breast style be OK?

[LostFarmer]

SLC Sorry to intrude on your thread.

chitowncd-I harness in a small barn where the harness hangs behind each horse and the collar in front. It is can be less than 2 minutes to harness AFTER they are brushed and ready. I am picky about brushing the shoulder area well.

Warmheart- There are several options for you to drag the pasture. Here in hick land we are cheap and functional. Take several car tires and split them through the middle of the tread this will givce you 2 half tires shaped like donuts. Bolt through the halves together to make a mat. This is a poor mans harrow that does a decient job of busting up manure piles. A regular harrow works or a chain harrow works. If you have access to 3 iron wagon wheel rims that works well to form a drag.

To start with I would ground drive and walk behind the harrow. A forcart can make life interesting if you come off and get chased by the harrow. A platform on the tires allows for a bench.

here is a pic of my tire of education with the double trees set up. This is a tractor tire from a ford 9N.

Tire (http://home.ripway.com/2005-1/240655/Horses/MVC-002F.JPG)

Double tree (http://home.ripway.com/2005-1/240655/Horses/MVC-004F.JPG)

Lostfarmer

[CHS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have a 15.2hh purebred Percheron </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I still never saw a 15 hand one. 15.2 isn't 15.
Suffolks are small but I have yet to see any of the other breeds at 15.

[egontoast]

What about oxen instead? Oxen are so cute and it saves them from burgerdoom.

[scramarama]

Eggy, I hate to burst your bubble but, burgerdoom eventually comes to most cattle beasts http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif I may have to give up meat when my favourite dairy cow no longer appears at milking time http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif OTOH, I've been known to comment that, "That one would make an excellent pet cow...in some nice persons freezer" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Oops, editing to post what I originally wanted to post which is that I liked Lost Farmers pictures and that a tire drag is brilliant! Safe and effective, You couldn't ask for more. I was warned off using spike harrows with all but the most dead broke for fear of a run away. When spike harrows are pulled to quickly they can get dancing pretty good and become a real hazard to both humans and the horses attached to them. I would imagine that a weighted chain link fencing harrow would also be pretty safe. Anyone use one?

[Sparks5]

Yes egon - maybe Slick should buy some oxen. They would be completely functional. Since she's not interested in the romance of her horses pulling her sleigh around the glistening snow, then the oxen are surely an excellent choice! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

I love the tractor tire training method! What an excellent idea! I used to milk at a dairy farm and every Sat. morning I took the two Haflingers out for a drive just for fun. My boss used them in pulling competitions and he had a flat bottom boat filled with concrete. The base weight of the boat with concrete was about 500 pounds and then he added sand bags as the horses got warmed up, or more fit. It worked great!

[Warmheart]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LostFarmer:
SLC Sorry to intrude on your thread.


Here in hick land we are cheap and functional.
To start with I would ground drive and walk behind the harrow. A forcart can make life interesting if you come off and get chased by the harrow. A platform on the tires allows for a bench.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~**~*~*~*~*
Lost Farmer - cheap and functional is good ! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif My kinda person. Thanks for the idea. Sometimes we get to wrapped up in what we see advertised these days and think that is all that can be used for a purpose.
<span class="ev_code_RED">A forcart can make life interesting if you come off and get chased by the harrow.</span> This is exactly what I was talking about with slc and logging. Learning to control the roll and movement of the logs could be a problem that one could never recover from.

Now do you bolt the tires together in such a manner as this??
(-(-(\
(-(-(/
I am guessing that since I would be working with a single horse that I would not use the double tree set up and use just a single tree?
I already own a single tree that we used with a skid many moons ago when we broke our QH to drive. I used to hitch him to the skid with a bale of hay just as you showed in your pictures of training.
You know I have seen a few forecarts around and it does look to me that their center of gravity does make them a little scary???? or is that just my perception? The ones with shafts also look to me to be too low for my Rosie but this is probably inexperience talking as well.

You know I might be able to get my hands on a ( one)large rear tire since I am friends with a Case III dealer http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Mr. Heart would love nothing better than to fabricate something for me. With a large tire I am thinking it would be better to bolt two eye bolts in at diagonals to make it more stable for a single horse to pull, what do you suggest?

[x]

I've seen and/or had a number of smaller full drafts in my barn...i.e., under 16H, and some well under.

However, with regards to harness, while the leather is definately very heavy, I still find the synthetic fairly heavy. With regards to synthetics, I have a betathane harness, and would not get another one. I'd go biothane, but the betathane, while it looks nice, has a softer finish that doesn't hold up well under hard work (as I've found out). I do like the ease of care with a synthetic. If one isn't working hard, then its probably not as big of a deal. I like the looks of the new granite finish biothane.

With regards to collars, you do want to put collars on over the head if at all possible. Most collars have some sort of buckle or clip...but you prefer NOT to put them on by opening them if you can help it, simply because it breaks the throat down faster. That said, I have one that I simply cannot get the collar on without unbuckling it, but I know that I am adding to the wear and tear on the collar. (The right size collar to fit him to work simply will not go over his large head no matter how I try)
Collars, by the way, when hung up are always hung up upsidedown to help maintain their shape.

Finally, it is personal preference as to size of work animal. I, too, was going to keep a small (15.2H) Belgian for work here single, but found my team more versatile (and I can also use one or the other of the team with no problem). But some people like large, and some don't. Most figure out how to deal with whatever they have.

[LostFarmer]

Here is a drawing of a poor mans pasture drag.
drag (http://home.ripway.com/2005-1/240655/misc/tiredrag.pdf)

I prefer to have the seat on the implement and also a tounge if it is so requires. Forecarts work and are okay but there was a reason the oltimers liked the seat where they had them. If you do a search for harrow carts you can learn more than you will ever care to know on the subject.

Good Luck and Happy Harrowing.
LF

[goodhors]

We use a single large tire as a drag. It can be the one off the one-ton pickup, pretty large for a non-machine tire. The bigger one is an implement tire, from a backhoe, rather heavy. The truck tire is the preferred one for long-lining, ground driving, steady work. It keeps the front of the barn area very level, smoothed out nicely. Horse does work with it, but not an excessive load for different trots requested of carriage style horse, not a draft.

The implement tire is for moving horse up to heavier load, much more drag in getting it going, dealing with swing in circles, teaches horses to be brave, handle a heavier load. This weight is something that carriage horses might never have experienced, only driven to light carts, 2 passengers. We drive multiples, weight is required, horse must learn to manage it, while still doing the rest of the job in good form. Big tire also is good for driving and smoothing the lane, barnyard, any rough area just with its own weight.

We don't ever sit on tires, work horses from the side ground driving or center of circle in long lining.

We attach a chain thru the tread area of single tires, even the big one. Make a crossbar rod inside the tire to anchor a heavy chain to tire. Like a big T. Crossbar rod inside tire is top of T, singletree attaches to chain end which is bottom of the T. Makes a very flexible attachment, easy to do. You can extend chain a bit for attaching horse further out from tire.

The pictured drag is nice, just way too heavy for my single large horse. I want to keep his action light, airy, for dressage, driving from behind. Single tire pulling allows him to stay light, while managing weight load. Draft type pulling encourages more use of front end pulling, digging in, clawing if you like, to move whatever the load is.

[Warmheart]

Lostfarmer, Though you would get a kick out of Mr. Heart's reply. As stated below :

"Just Shoot me now, that is what we have a tractor for! "
Rosie's response : http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?a...7269&security=YoCHjj (http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&amp;albumID=1225383 55&amp;photoID=358377269&amp;security=YoCHjj)

[Cartfall]

Warmheart, I tried to see Rosie's reply to working, but was unable to get it to work. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

LostFarmer--new sport, riding the tires sideway!!! Looks like so much fun!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

This is a great thread--I am just wondering where the person who started it went?

[Warmheart]

HI Cartfall, Sorry the link doesn't work. I thought I got it right but go to my webshots and it should be the last one in the album labeled Little Lizzie or Rosebud. She is such a ham.
goodhors, that is exactly what I had in mind. I thought I would get a used tractor tire from our Case III dealer friend. It would probably be good for her. I'll just have to get the gun on hubby, he and Rosie thinks I have lost my mind. I just like to keep them guessing, makes life interesting.
Cartfall, getting back to the OP, who cares, she has probably gotten her team and is enjoying the uncomplicated life of just enjoying horses, and the entertainment level on this forum is way to low key for her.
Drove Miss Rosie to the cart yesterday, and as usual the business woman put her heels on and was a champ. There were times that I really felt good with her. She was on the bit and light in my hands. I was amazed at the feel of the cart and the difference that I perceived when she really was engaged and on the bit. Not only did she float ( if that is possible for a draft ?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) but the cart also felt light and floaty. It was great, we are getting there. Hope the driving is good for you guys...

[LostFarmer]

Goodhors-
You are correct that if the load is too heavy it will alter the way a horse moves. I use mine more for draft and want them to learn to dig in. In discussing this with an oldtimer that hauled coal from a mine to the rail head during the winter and farmed with the horses tha rest of the year, he says it can take some colts nearly a year to learn to haul. A horse that learns to haul can pull the same load as his mate but use less energy doing it. It is a way they walk and throw the weight. Some never learn to haul well. The coal route was about 20 miles a day with half of that empty and half loaded heavy. My neighbor that seriously pulls his team likes a load that they need to blow in a mile. As the conditioning increases he continues to load to that point. A friend that hitches likes enough load to keep everything tight but not so much that the start to dig.

It all depends on what you want to do with the horses.

Good comment Goodhors, I get looking at the world from my farmer colored glasses.

LF

[Warmheart]

LF, as you can probably tell. Our use is a purposeful "play at it". Digging in is not in Miss Rosie's vocabulary. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
At least we are honest about it...

[Cartfall]

WarmHeart, Rosie is too much of an Uptown girl with those braids to really consider "PULLING SOMETHING"?
Really, Mother, you HAVE GOT to be kidding?
Who Me? Pull? What does that mean?

In answer to your question on driving, it is mostly non-exisstent these days.. Other than a short drive inthe woods with Miss Wendy and Justinesue, my driving is in a truck. We are moving to a new farm, 11 acres of hay field that has to be converted to horse friendly pasture. In otherwords, 15000 linear feet of barb wire (they ran cows occasionally) must be taken down and replaced with 3000 feet of field fence!!! Had planned to drive Looker at the show in a couple of weeks but she has a bad abcess that doesn;t want to come out, 3 legged lame. Zanzer is on R&R since his airs above the ground at the Trace Pace in March. Just got too much on my plate to spend a lot of time driving, But you drive Ms. Rosie and think of us, we are there like little angles on your shoulder enjoying your driving!!!

[egontoast]

draft purists in the snow belt, don't you still need a tractor to plow snow in winter or do you have a plow on your truck. Don't you need a bucket for moving sawdust, etc?

[STF]

Egon,
You kill me.... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

At least we can find humor in everything these days...

How can we not???

[egontoast]

but the sad thing is that I was serious, Stffy!

[STF]

Serious Humor is fine too.....

[LostFarmer]

Where I am at once we have freeze up it lasts until spring. We rarely get the thaws to muck up the drive. I have loader tractors and a skid steer loader, but I pack the snow with my tire. It makes a good base and doesn't create a pile for snow to drift around. I bed with straw because raise barley and it is a byproduct. I also don't stall horses. A good wind break a run in shed an leave them alone. Up the feed as needed with the cold. My horses do fine all weather. Now keep in mind, I don't show so I have no need to keep the sun off or clip the hair off.

A sled or wagon can be used to shovel sawdust onto and haul manure out. Yes, a tractor is easier. Think of the stop, start, stand training the horses are getting during a chore session.

LF

[egontoast]

Sorry to dredge up an old thread but my neighbour is looking for advice on this subject and this came up on a search.

What breed of horse did you eventually settle on, slc?

My neighbour is seriously considering getting a Cheval Canadien or a Morgan. This would be for fun though because he also has a big honkin tractor with all the accessories. :)

[Cartfall]

Actually, EOT, I rather enjoyed reading this--a lot of souls who no longer lurk on this forum posted. It was kinda fun reading something I wrote 2 years ago.

Our slc friend doesn;t seem to post here anymore.

[prince and ponies]

I'm very curious why you wouldn't be interested in a mule or a pair to do your work? The size would be right, easier on the pocketbook too. My dad and grampa used them to do the farming for years. Liked them better than horses for work-not near as many health problems, etc. They did say that mules are in a class all by themselves and you don't interact the same with them as horses. Haven't ever owned one myself but would love too!! (a gaited one that is!!!)

[MySparrow]

Warmheart, Good to know I'm not the only one that visits the RH site and here. I guess I am just a little redneck for this site. Not a problem with me, and you all haven't kicked me off yet.

I love Rural Heritage. Didn't know that it meant anything in particular except that I love Rural Heritage.

[RidesAHaflinger]

I like Rural Heritage too. One of the best times I ever spent at my driving trainer's was a very rainy weekend during which I spent most of the time holed up in my quarters whiling away the time reading their huge collection of old back issues of the magazine. Didn't get much driving time in that weekend but I was transported by reading the magazine to a place and time that I really think I was meant to be from. I always did think I was born 100 years too late. :D Here's the website for those not familiar with it: http://www.ruralheritage.com/

[MSP]

I never miss an episode of RH on RFDTV!

Speaking of which they show cased the Brabant Belgian just a short time ago and they would make a great selection for a hard working farm horse. Not bred for show but to work hard! That is if some one was looking for a real work horse! ;)

http://www.ruralheritage.com/brabant/index.htm

[Cattail]

Evening,
My husband was reading this thread and told me about it. I wanted to say that we have a wonderful pair of Amish broke and trained Haflingers. I looked
for three years and they are perfect!

[RyLore Farm]

I'll chime in my 2cents and say draft crosses too. You just have to look for what you want. I've had two Perch/Morgan crosses who were as different as night and day, but both are terrific horses. Just that one takes after the Morgan side and the other the Percheron side. The Morgan one was better for speed and riding, and the Perch gal is just a big sweetie whose taken kids to the GA Special Olympics and won! :) There are plenty of crosses out there that favor the draft side. Many still have the draft heart and temperment, but aren't pushing 18hds. either. And simply because something was Amish trained doesn't mean it was a throw-away. The Morgan favored one I had was Amish trained and one of the best trail horses I've even seen. Totally fearless and traffic safe, but I never drove that one, only rode it. You'll just have to use common sense and shop around. But my money is always on a draft cross, and yes, I'm partial to Percherons. ;)