UPDATE: Foaling in a stall vs. in a paddock. It went FINE!

[pwynnnorman]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of allowing a mare to foal in a field? I've kept a lovely smallish, grassy (winter rye), clean pasture behind my house, ready for new babies' first outdoor explorations. But I have a maiden mare due in three weeks whom I'm VERY worried about, psychologically.

This mare's mom has had a ton of foals and has been a great mom except that she's been quite, quite a nervous type--to the point of squashing her foals in doorways as she races out and coming close to stepping on them (and often knocking them around) in her anxieties about other horses (or humans) being nearby. I'm finding that the daughter is growing increasingly antsy now, too (and she's always been a hot, sensitive mare). As a result, I'm not sure it would be wise to have her foal in a stall (in fact, she panics out of her mind when she's inside during rain and did a "Tabasco Cat" to me once when rain was falling on a building I was leading her past).

Would you be inclined to put a nervous maiden mare out rather than foal her in? My foaling stalls are huge (one is 12x30 and the other is 15 by 15), airy and conveniently located in a barn with lots of windows that are adjacent to the stall and also the other grassy paddock where this mare's comforting pasture buddy would be (who, hopefully, will have foaled already). Should I keep her in and let the other mare comfort her (which that mare DOES do already) and make it easier for me to deal with any problems that might arise?

Aargh! I can't decide! What are other factors I should consider, please? Thanks!

[Molly Malone]

Can you give her the choice? I have a mare who had never been stalled and to this day will not come into a stall voluntarily, until she foals. Then she comes into the nice straw bed, water breaks and down she goes. Then I can quietly shut the door. I keep her and the baby in for 2-3 days and then allow them out into their run. The babies always sleep in the stall and she hangs out outside.

I think on the whole I'd go for less stress to the mare however it works best for her.

[Signature]

Last year we gave our mares choices to foal in the stall or in the attached paddock. 3 out of 4 chose outside :) I think it's much safer - no foaling into a wall, etc - and the foal seems to be able to get up much more easily on dirt and grass than soggy straw and wet stall mats. So, we'll do that again this year... but as far as safety, I think outside is far better - unless they are unattended and the foal could somehow get under the fence?

[Hillside H Ranch]

Foaling outside is "cleaner", foaling inside allows for closer monitoring in most cases. As someone mentioned previously, it is imperative that the foal not be able to get under the fence; either from the mare foaling next to it and the foal going under the fence, or later when it is older and it lays down for a nap on one side and gets up on the other. I've seen this happen more than once; and I've seen it end in the death of the foal.
Inside is also better in the case of inclement weather, but if I had a nice clean, grassy paddock in good weather and I could watch the mare 24/7, I'd leave her out. Just make sure that in the event of a dystocia that you can get the mare into the barn easily, i.e. not a long hike with a mare that is trying to lay down on you!

[bloomingtonfarm]

I would love to let my mare foals in a grassy clean paddock as long as:

It is not raining

It is not cold

I can watch her easily

There is good lightning system so I can see what going on easily in the middle of the night

And the mare won’t be running or panic from me if help is needed.

If I wouldn’t have all the above she would be definitely foaling in a stall. However I would make sure that my mare would be used to her stall a long time before she foals, maybe even before she gets in foal. I don’t want them to be stress out while they are in foal.

So I guess your are the one to know what is the best for your mare.

[bloomingtonfarm]

Can you give her the choice? I have a mare who had never been stalled and to this day will not come into a stall voluntarily, until she foals. Then she comes into the nice straw bed, water breaks and down she goes. Then I can quietly shut the door. I keep her and the baby in for 2-3 days and then allow them out into their run. The babies always sleep in the stall and she hangs out outside.

I think on the whole I'd go for less stress to the mare however it works best for her.

Oooh, but this is sooo perfect ... I want this mare!

[siegi b.]

I've foaled mares inside and outside - not by choice I might add. :) I have big foaling stalls and the majority of my foalings take place inside where I can supervise and help, if necessary.

The outside foalings occurred during the day and while I was still there (I use Foalert), the aftermath sometimes was a little tough.

Case in point..... last year my big Jazz mare foaled a Soprano filly outside. I was there, even took some pictures and then it started to rain.... Needless to say, the mare and foal were quite a ways from the barn, down a big hill and then back up another one. First I got all the other mares that were in with the Jazz mare to another field. Then began the long and arduous process of trying to get a newborn to the main barn. That filly fought me all the way and never for one minute thought that she should follow mom. So I basically carried her with lots of rests and breakdowns in between, and thought I would have a heart attack by the time I got her in the barn. I don't ever want to have to do that again! :)

Generally though, if you have a nice clean paddock that has access to light and is close to the barn, it's probaly the best environment for a birth.

[JB]

wynn, do you have to worry about wild creatures who might find a newborn particularly tasty, especially if the mare foals in secret?

[Zu Zu]

When I have a nervous mare due to foal ~ and want her to foal inside ~ the transition to inside must be done well inadvance - so where ever the location ~ she needs to be comfortable with it now -while I have had mares foal both outside and inside - I prefer inside in case she has trouble and for vet check as well as to avoid weather related problems. IMHO

[alliekat]

We built a small paddock to foal ours in. I prefer this as long as the weather is nice. My mares live out 24/7 and only come in to have vet/farrier work done. My mares seem happier and calmer when outside. I also think the mares appreciated being able to walk around when they started going into labor. I keep the mares in the big field until they look like they are getting close. Then I move them to the small paddock and start milk testing them. I even parked my truck by the small paddock when I had an idea that they were getting ready to foal, and that is where we did our foal watching from. It worked out great last year with both our maiden and seasoned broodies. I plan on doing it the same way this year. Good luck with your mare Wynn!!

[Hillside H Ranch]

wynn, do you have to worry about wild creatures who might find a newborn particularly tasty, especially if the mare foals in secret?

I would also add that it isn't just wild creatures. A few years ago a client had a mare who foaled outside and the foal was born outside the fence. The client's normally docile dogs (a lab, a golden retriever and a springer spaniel) attacked and killed the foal.

[pwynnnorman]

Busy day, sorry to come back so late.

Thanks for all the advice and examples! The paddock would have some dark corners, but it's in the middle of our neighborhood, which is small horse places, not big farms--no loose dogs.

<<And the mare won’t be running or panic from me if help is needed.>>

That's what I'm worried about, too.

The two girls stay in at night already, so unless it's raining, I think the mare is acclimated to being in pretty well.

Ugh! I can't say I've decided, though. I wish I knew how she'll take it, psychologically. In fact, I'm running back and forth to the barn right now because she's acting colicky--for the third time in as many weeks. She's just sooo uncomfortable. She holds a foot off the ground and kind of paws the air. But like before, she has good gut sounds. Just nibbling at her food, though. Poor thing--baby is probably turning or something.

I have a feeling I'm going to leave her in. Oh, blast! But I can just imagine her kicking the foal, not knowing what it is. She is such an aggressive mare, too. She hates having other horses enter her "space."

Blast. I can't wait 'til this one is over.

[Rancho del Marr]

Could be acting "colicky" due to being uncomfortable... things getting close. I would be keeping an eye on her for sure. Especially if you think she might be aggressive toward the foal.

You never know though. She could end up being the best mother ever. These mares... they keep you guessing!

Good luck with whatever you do. And keep us posted!! :)

[grayfox]

I foal inside but my neighbor flood an outdoor paddock with light so the foaling is attended and the mares foal outside.

[alliekat]

Can you test her milk Wynn? It saved me a lot of anxious,sleepless nights!! The results were dead on for both my maiden mare and my mare who was having her 5th foal. In fact if I wasn't testing my seasoned mare I would have missed her as she foaled in the afternoon. Good luck Wynn!!

[pwynnnorman]

Can you test her milk Wynn? It saved me a lot of anxious,sleepless nights!!

Thanks for the good luck wishes. She isn't quite that close, however. I have a mare due two weeks before her, in fact--and that mare is already all squishy in her butt. Cat is still quite firm. I'm not sure why she is so cranky and unhappy--or where the pain that she seems to have periodically is coming from. I don't see the baby doing much kicking these days (don't they always seem to quiet down in the last few weeks?). Last month, her whole belly would bounce up and down during (what seemed to be) the baby's morning workout.

Y'know, I always forget about the milk test until it's too late to get ahold of in time. Thanks for that reminder, too. DEFINITELY must order it NOW!!! I'm getting just too old (and too cranky myself) to be staying up a lot of extra nights.


I might suggest that across one corner of the stall, create a barrier that the foal can duck under to get away should mom get aggressive.


Another excellent idea. Cat's stall is the biggest one (12 x 30), so there's plenty of room to put something up the foal can go under but she can't. I never would have thought of doing that, so again: THANKS!

[alliekat]

I used the spa strips from Wally world or Home depot. I think the were 50 in there for 12 bucks. I found my self testing my maiden more often and kept a record of the results along with pics so I can compare them to the next time she foals. Good Luck!!

[columbus]

It sounds like you have time to start conditioning her to come to you when she sees you. I use dinner mints, my mares are addicted to them. I would be worried you couldn't get close to her if she needed help. It may be that you could make the grass area smaller...equal space inside and outside...but my fear would be foaling outside the fence or the foal falling outside the fence when they hit it. If your fence prevents that then I would consider outside foaling as an option though I would work real hard to acclimate her to that stall as so many things could happen that she would need to be confined at some point. I know it is hard not to imagine a half in half out foal slapping around but the chance she could help herself foal easier by walking the foal out is one of the reasons to foal outside.

I have a mare that is due in late May and she is so uncomfortable already. I will send her out to foal and she will have to be in a stall half day and I worry as she is spending lots of effort to jostle this foal into a more comfortable spot and she won't be able to do that as well in a stall. I know she will have shifted the foal lower by then but I can't help to worry about what might happen. Good Luck PatO

[pwynnnorman]

Oh, Columbus, you gave me a chuckle with that one! Conditioning her to come to me? Oh, if you only knew Catahoula, whom ten years ago I pulled out of her mom (whom 18 years ago I also pulled out of HER mom) and all THREE of whom are the most persnicky bitches you can imagine.

Cat comes when she is called...WHEN she feels like it. Cat is easy to catch...WHEN she feels like it. Cat is, hands down and even when compared to her mother and grandmother, the most difficult "broodmare" I've had in 25 years (her grandmother is 30 this year) to the point where Plan B is to return Cat to competing if she's as bad a mother as I fear she may be!

ALLIE, TELL ME MORE!!!!

Do you have a link to using that product instead of buying the kit? How do you interpret the results?

I guess I better PM you.

[JER]

My mare had one of her foals out in the field in a rainstorm -- with her Rambo turnout rug on.

Okay, so it was a surprise. The only problem was the foal couldn't get under the Rambo to nurse. :)

But I wouldn't hesitate to do this again, minus the Rambo. Both mare and foal were fine and got to spend some time together before anyone else came along. Mare likes to be left alone, doesn't like humans fussing around her and she really doesn't want anyone to even LOOK at her foals at first -- so I think this was easier on her.

[alliekat]

Sent you a pm!!

[VirginiaBred]

When I have a nervous mare due to foal ~ and want her to foal inside ~ the transition to inside must be done well inadvance - so where ever the location ~ she needs to be comfortable with it now -while I have had mares foal both outside and inside - I prefer inside in case she has trouble and for vet check as well as to avoid weather related problems. IMHO


This is it. I'd have her foal in your largest stall and have her in it NOW, to get her smells in it and become comfortable.

[HSS]

Well, where I live, rain isn't usually much of an issue. I separate my insanely bitchy and aggressive (to everyone BUT her foals, thank goodness! She's an absolute peach to her kids, best mother ever) broodmare about a month before she is due- put her in the paddock closest to the house and barn.

I fence with electro-braid, so if the foals somehow gets outside, it can get back in too. Newborns don't seem to be very sensitive to hot wire I've noticed. I've not had this problem, but one never knows. I believe that the mare would break down the fence if her youngster was being attacked- did I mention aggressive bitch? :)

Where I am, there isn't any grass, so the baby is born on dirt, maybe dirt and manure. I iodine the unbilical every few hours for the first few days, but I've never had a problem with infections.

The mare is much more comfortable foaling outside, and the babies absolutely thrive on being able to walk and walk and walk. I've had excellent antibody titers and health checks, and the youngsters (never parted with one yet) are super healthy, developing superbly, and unlike their mother, extremely friendly and personable.

At this point, I probably would NEVER want to have a mare foal in a stall.

As a maiden, yes, the mare was a little standoffish the first few days, but then she relaxed. Now, she could care less what we do with the baby.

[pwynnnorman]

did I mention aggressive bitch? :)




Sounds like my kind of mare.

[Slewdledo]

I would foal a maiden mare in a big stall if possible. We had a maiden mare foal in the field a few years ago, and as soon as the foal was out, she got up and RAN away to the far side of the 2-acre field. It isn't <ahem> ideal to have to catch a mare AND go get the truck to drive a baby into the barn. :lol:

Love it when mares foal outside on sunny days, though, once we're past the muddy time.

[camohn]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of allowing a mare to foal in a field? I've kept a lovely smallish, grassy (winter rye), clean pasture behind my house, ready for new babies' first outdoor explorations. But I have a maiden mare due in three weeks whom I'm VERY worried about, psychologically.

This mare's mom has had a ton of foals and has been a great mom except that she's been quite, quite a nervous type--to the point of squashing her foals in doorways as she races out and coming close to stepping on them (and often knocking them around) in her anxieties about other horses (or humans) being nearby. I'm finding that the daughter is growing increasingly antsy now, too (and she's always been a hot, sensitive mare). As a result, I'm not sure it would be wise to have her foal in a stall (in fact, she panics out of her mind when she's inside during rain and did a "Tabasco Cat" to me once when rain was falling on a building I was leading her past).

Would you be inclined to put a nervous maiden mare out rather than foal her in? My foaling stalls are huge (one is 12x30 and the other is 15 by 15), airy and conveniently located in a barn with lots of windows that are adjacent to the stall and also the other grassy paddock where this mare's comforting pasture buddy would be (who, hopefully, will have foaled already). Should I keep her in and let the other mare comfort her (which that mare DOES do already) and make it easier for me to deal with any problems that might arise?

Aargh! I can't decide! What are other factors I should consider, please? Thanks!
For me it depends on the weather. We have a roundpen sized paddock off the barn in view of the front porch. If it is nice enough weather to be camping out for me I sleep on the porch sofa or make a haybale bed with a sleeping bag by barn doors. If the weather is cold or rainy then they are in the stall with the foalcam and I sleep on the sofa with the TV monitor. My mares foal out 90% of the time in rainstorms so they have not used the paddock too much though in days before they actually foaled they have been parked in there.

[Tom King]

We have had to spend a few all nighters with mare and foal and I'd much rather do that in a large foaling stall than out. We don't have cameras for paddocks at night either. But of course there is no hard and fast rule..........

[pwynnnorman]

For me it depends on the weather. We have a roundpen sized paddock off the barn in view of the front porch.

Hey, camohn, your round pen is dirt, isn't it? I've always wondered why we worry about shavings or sawdust in stalls, but not dirt outside. I'm guessing its because dirt is somehow heavier and less inclined to stick or get sucked up, but I've still wondered.

[pwynnnorman]

Just updating from this inquiry. I discovered a high powered flashlight that reached all of the corners of the pasture I let this mare foal out in and while I missed the actual birth (it happened at almost the exact same time the health care reform vote was concluding), I was present as the colt got to his feet. The mare did GREAT, including quietly walking behind me as I pushed the foal ahead of us to get them into a stall (after I'd given him time to nurse, etc.).

I jsut wanted to note two things that I learned/lucked into: 1.) I intentionally turned the mare out with her half sister the day after the sister had foaled. As a result, she'd been watching her sister's foal for almost two weeks. And 2.) on Friday, Cat's bad started itching like MAD! She loved it when I'd rub it (and her belly button), which I think made me much less sensitive when the foal was bumping around (she did squeal a bit, but never kicked, which is what I'd worried about).

She's a little careless with her rump, but not aggressive about anything. I'm sure she'll judge where her butt is with respect to her foal soon as she is very "conscientious" about looking after him.

I hadn't realized until after all of this that it's been a whole decade since I had a maiden mare to foal out. That, combined with Cat's usually wacko nature, is probalby why I got so worried, come to think of it. But I'm sure glad it's over now (bay colt, healthy, straight, elegant).

[cottagefarm]

Congrats Wynn,

I'll be down to visit soon :)

[alliekat]

Congrats Wynn,
Glad to hear it worked out well. Now you know we need pics right;)

[pwynnnorman]

Well, my plan was to wait until all three were on the ground--with the hope that they'd look like Colonel clones. But this one (his name is Ted-Ted, one of his granddad's nicknames) has ruined that hope, so I guess I'll jsut wait until he fills out a bit. I'm intrigued by the difference between him and the first one. They are something like a little more than 3/4 siblings-this is weird: same sire and their dams themselves were 3/4 siblings...so what's the math there? And the last one, same sire, will be even tougher to figure out in terms of the relationship: "its" dam is half sister to the dam of one of the others and dam of the other.

OK, OK, so I've become a little freaky in trying to insure consistency, but heck, it's worth a try, ain't it?