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View Full Version : Collapsible Cross Country Fence at Plantation-anyone see this?



PnkPanthr
Feb. 25, 2010, 07:51 AM
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs056/1102092631929/archive/1102627944183.html

Its been up there for a while now..looks like since June..but did anyone see this?

DiamondOakEventing
Feb. 25, 2010, 08:40 AM
Yes, there was one on the CIC1* course in the fall. One of the better forms of collapsable fences in my opinion. Frangible pens sometimes can take a lot of force to cause them to give and the foam logs seem to be breaking too easily.

On the Intermediate course at the FHP the other weekend the log broke 3 times and looking at some of the pictures it should not have. (granted it should have for some) I also noticed that nobody that broke the log got penalized? I thought there was talk of adding a 20 if they have to replace a fence for you? Sounds justifiable to me...

faybe
Feb. 25, 2010, 09:57 AM
I saw them! Cool bit of engineering on Doug Payne's part but (fortunately!) I don't think anyone had a problem at them so we didn't see them in action.

As far as penalizing people for knocking down frangible pins or collapsible fences, how is that fair? On cross country we train our horses to gallop and jump in a flatter style that lends itself not only to speed but inevitably to rubs and bumps here and there. Penalizing for that is going to lead to even more show-jumpy, technical cross country courses that reward tight, technical form and take the focus off of the "gallop and jump" that cross country is all about. I'm sure I'm opening a can of worms here with that statement, but just my 2 cents.

DiamondOakEventing
Feb. 25, 2010, 05:35 PM
Yes, we want horses to gallop flat but not jump flat. Horses still need to jump round. It is when the people don't change the shape and gallop of the horse that accidents occur. Cross country is NOT steeplechase. People should be penalized for dangerous riding that causes jumps to collapse. If somehow they continue to gallop on, that is dangerous riding. What if they were to have a ride like that over a jump that was not collapsable? The outcome would be far worse than 20penalties.

starkissed
Feb. 25, 2010, 08:13 PM
YES!! I jumped it!!!
I'll have to find the photo....

ok here is the proof link, hope it works!
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/Orderpage.aspx?pi=05MP0055020026&po=26&pc=37

or this one
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/photocard.aspx?pc=AF589E9571CA567E3EE4C6D1A8E1D838

hopefully one works!

Ajierene
Feb. 25, 2010, 09:26 PM
I saw them! Cool bit of engineering on Doug Payne's part but (fortunately!) I don't think anyone had a problem at them so we didn't see them in action.

As far as penalizing people for knocking down frangible pins or collapsible fences, how is that fair? On cross country we train our horses to gallop and jump in a flatter style that lends itself not only to speed but inevitably to rubs and bumps here and there. Penalizing for that is going to lead to even more show-jumpy, technical cross country courses that reward tight, technical form and take the focus off of the "gallop and jump" that cross country is all about. I'm sure I'm opening a can of worms here with that statement, but just my 2 cents.

Um, yeah...generally the idea is that when you hit these jumps hard enough, instead of crashing and burning a la rotational fall, the jump falls instead of you an pony...so yeah, a rub would not knock the jump down. This is leaving the foam logs aside, which apparently have some issues.

So, if your horse is going to rub hard enough to knock a fence, yeah, 20 penalty points is probably best. I would say 30 or 40 since without the frangible pins, you would both be out of the running completely.

tuppysmom
Feb. 25, 2010, 09:42 PM
Many horses drag the hind legs at drops on purpose. It would not be fair to penalize them for being careful at drops.

faybe
Feb. 25, 2010, 10:41 PM
Um, yeah...generally the idea is that when you hit these jumps hard enough, instead of crashing and burning a la rotational fall, the jump falls instead of you an pony...so yeah, a rub would not knock the jump down. This is leaving the foam logs aside, which apparently have some issues.

So, if your horse is going to rub hard enough to knock a fence, yeah, 20 penalty points is probably best. I would say 30 or 40 since without the frangible pins, you would both be out of the running completely.

Yes, but DiamondOaksEventing said herself that sometimes logs fell when they weren't supposed to (ie for a rub like you might have in show jumping). Are you going to leave it to the subjective opinion of a jump judge as to whether the log should or should not have fallen? I'm not denying the increase in rotational falls and that something needs to be done about them, but I'd rather see more responsible course design, more rider and trainer responsibility, more responsible coaching before the show and riders who are fully prepared to be at their level than penalties for rubbing fences on course. I also agree 110% with DiamondOaksEventing that something needs to be done about dangerous riders, but I'm just not convinced that this would be the way to go about it.

Not to get too carried away with myself, but have you seen this? (It's the 60th anniversary video trailer for Badminton):

http://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/latest_news/2009_video/60th_anniversary_video.aspx

I love this video for so many reasons (awesome horses and riders aside). The video footage they have, especially from the 70's and 80's, shows horses hanging legs right and left and *GASP* they're coming away fine! (OK, not all of them, but I would argue that you are never going to be able to eliminate rotational falls from the sport; even if you are spot on the horse can sometimes miss or freaky things can happen, but those decades didn't see nearly the number of rotational falls that we are seeing today and I think by creating safer jumps we are working to minimize the risk). The point I'm trying to make is that the main difference I see in this video from what I see on course today (and I'm just as guilty of it as anyone else, sadly) is that in the video, the horse hangs a leg and where is the rider? OUT OF HIS WAY. Sitting back, leg on, soft hand, letting the horse figure it out. Compare that to the sit-sit-tug-tug-pick-pick to the base of the fence that is rampant on our courses today and tell me that by putting MORE focus on not rubbing fences and ignoring the real issues we're going to solve this problem. I just don't buy it.

horsesarelikepotatochips
Feb. 26, 2010, 05:25 PM
I competed there in July and the fence road great, even though we left a little long.

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/Orderpage.aspx?pi=05MP0055020008&po=8&pc=37

starkissed
Feb. 26, 2010, 06:13 PM
I competed there in July and the fence road great, even though we left a little long.

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/Orderpage.aspx?pi=05MP0055020008&po=8&pc=37

my horse seemed to leave a tiny bit long too, but I think it was necessary at this jumps because it was so wide. He looks good though. I like the 3rd stage- mine (and yours) were like- we are STILL overtop the jump! My mare's legs are reaching for the ground!
We definitely hadn't jumping something like that before!