Out of line or justifiably upset? Vent!

[5]

I have an advanced trail(wannabe endurance) horse (will go 'anywhere' I point her and usually fairly fast)
More often than not when we trail ride there is at least 1 suddenly invited guest who can barely ride or one horese that can't handle anything more stimulating than trot (slowly).
Ill I hear the entire ride is 'you're going to fast don't do this, don't do that, that horse is green/been messed up in training, my horse kicks(no ribbon) stay back.
Sunday I held my mare back so much I tought her how to piaffe (actually the mare was 'pee'd off' at being held back but the dressage person said she had a nice form and had nice impulsion (know how little that matters on a foot wide trail, or when you are trying to cover ground?)


Not to mention even if I am a hundred yards away if someone elses (read my husband who 'never schools his mare beacuse she is an 8 YO qh not a warmblood (IMO European coach horse that was 'slightly' too good to eat) and not worthy of the extra training, whenever his qh acts up it is always my fault (I'm riding the dam of his horse but they were seperated for three years) yet he is the rider with about ten grand worth of lessons (in a ring).

Next time I am sitting the ride out or going the other way alone.

I'm tired of being the scapegoat for everyone elses problems.

Off the subject but still a gripe. I rinse & scrub(lots of water just a bit of shampoo) my horses before every ride (I think they are more comfortable & the tack is easier to clean) and I have to hear "I'd never buy a gray, they are too hard to keep clean." I havent yet snapped and informed them that all horses get dirty, it's just more obvious with a gray when the rider didn't clean their horse before riding.

[5]

I have an advanced trail(wannabe endurance) horse (will go 'anywhere' I point her and usually fairly fast)
More often than not when we trail ride there is at least 1 suddenly invited guest who can barely ride or one horese that can't handle anything more stimulating than trot (slowly).
Ill I hear the entire ride is 'you're going to fast don't do this, don't do that, that horse is green/been messed up in training, my horse kicks(no ribbon) stay back.
Sunday I held my mare back so much I tought her how to piaffe (actually the mare was 'pee'd off' at being held back but the dressage person said she had a nice form and had nice impulsion (know how little that matters on a foot wide trail, or when you are trying to cover ground?)


Not to mention even if I am a hundred yards away if someone elses (read my husband who 'never schools his mare beacuse she is an 8 YO qh not a warmblood (IMO European coach horse that was 'slightly' too good to eat) and not worthy of the extra training, whenever his qh acts up it is always my fault (I'm riding the dam of his horse but they were seperated for three years) yet he is the rider with about ten grand worth of lessons (in a ring).

Next time I am sitting the ride out or going the other way alone.

I'm tired of being the scapegoat for everyone elses problems.

Off the subject but still a gripe. I rinse & scrub(lots of water just a bit of shampoo) my horses before every ride (I think they are more comfortable & the tack is easier to clean) and I have to hear "I'd never buy a gray, they are too hard to keep clean." I havent yet snapped and informed them that all horses get dirty, it's just more obvious with a gray when the rider didn't clean their horse before riding.

[Halcyon Days]

Oh, how I feel your pain! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I am so sick of being the babysitter, I've finally just excused myself and go do my own thing. Luckily I have endurance friends now and we can enjoy our bonzai rides together. It is hard saying no to trail riding slowpoke friends though, just blame it on your horse, tell everyone she's psycho and you need to move her on out. Just tell someone where you're going and arrange to meet back at the trailers (or barn) at a certain time--you'll just go 3 times as far and be in a much better mood. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[saratoga]

Most trail riders around here just want to walk so riding with them is NOT a good idea for either party. I've found that I have to ride by myself a lot and now I've also hooked up with other endurance riders and we have a great time together. It is hard to find people who want to trot and canter and gallop on the trail.

[marta]

i hear you.
for that precise reason (plus the fact that these people won't ride when it's too cold, too wet, or too early) i tend to ride alone. but that turned my mare into a night-mare when being ridden with other horses now. she is so used to going alone that when she is with others she wants to lead, lead, lead and if she's put anywhere else but in the front, she pins her ears and tries to get to the front. so we now developed a problem that's not very easy to resolve.

[WildBlue]

I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you... (thumping head on wall). It's even better when the tagalongs want everyone else to sit around and wait while they sloooowly tack up and join the group. Aaargh.

I agree that, rude as it seems, it's much better to smile and state the rules up front: "Oh, it's great that you want to come--here's what we're doing, here are your options."

I prefer to ride fast with only one, maybe two other people nearby--less clogging of jumps, easier to emergency stop from the gallop, etc. If the group is larger, I'll suggest splitting up or staggering departures, each group carrying a cell phone, and having a designated meet point/time. Experiencing one en masse gallop on a trail is usually enough for most people to agree that splitting up is better.

[mrs.smith]

I understand where you're coming from. At my barn we have three trail riding groups: the endurance riders, the slow poke sightseers (w-t occasional canter), and those who ride with Susan, aka "the woman from Snowy River", who leaves the barn at a dead gallop and keeps that pace the entire ride.

I ride with the sight seers mostly. The endurance riders have offered for me to come along, but I have to be realistic. A haflinger just isn't a distance horse and I'd be sitting in a bucket of ice for weeks afterward. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

Are there enough people at your barn to split the groups? If not, I'd just explain to people that I was distance training and wave good-bye as I left.

[Alagirl]

Oh good GAWD, group rides....

Well, one can get into a mess with only one other rider - been there, done that (also a deal where i had to hold my horse back to the point where my arms would fall off...after a while, on the last half mile or so - I was patient - I left my *companion* behind, just grabbing the reins by the buckle and mosiing on along...need I say, that after walking his steed home we where not on good speaking terms for a while...)

When you go out, you need to follow the lowest common denominator. All the more reason to make sure that you team up with like wise minded and able riders! And on top of that, there is also group dynamics with more than - heck - one rider...

I don't think I could hang with the Endurance folk, but I definetly want to go out to work, not just putz around!

[TripleRipple]

God, I remember when I thought group rides would be fun - that was before I did group rides. Mine were neighbors and their friends - it was cool to see a pack of horses just magically show up under my window, for us to grab ours and go out for miles.

This loosely configured group never did get much faster than a walk, not intentionally. Once I heard yelling and looked back to see two riders attempting to block the passage of a third rider at a fast canter up a hill - apparently horse had bucked, the guy wore tennis shoes which promptly lodged tight in the stirrups, and he was off kilter, so the horse just took off. Another time I was trotting and a horse with a kid rider began bucking and ultimately pitched the kid. Since they were about 200' away, I didn't see what started it, asked, and was told "when your large horse started trotting, it naturally scared our small horse, since it looked threatening." My horse is approx. 16.2, and said small horse was, well, very small. At that distance? And given that we ride in remote country full of elk, I know the little booger saw elk as large or larger than my guy. Anyway, the mother and the child (unhurt) then lead their mounts back home. I might add that home was at least 2.5 miles away. I think the horse had issues they did not wish to share with mehttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Which brings me to the thing that stopped the trail riding with "the group"...my shortest horses are two at 15.3.. another one is 16.2 and one is 17h. The group horses are all probably 14h, maybe there is one 15h. So they fell behind alot at the walk. One day, dh and I noticed we mostly walked alone - the others couldn't keep up, and every 20 minutes we'd heard little hooves thudding, as they galloped back up to us. Then they'd fall back again, repeat sequence. Called our horses "stretch" - fair assessment if you are on the 14h'rs trying to walk with Mr. 16.2h and Mr. 17h. Also part of the reason they lagged was that they spent much time at the walk rolling cigarettes as they walked, and passing bottles of schnapps back and forth to share (well, except for the beer drinker - he mostly tries to just stay on). I am not kidding.

My saving grace is that dh and I mostly get along on trail rides, so I am not without a companion. Well, except for the few times that we are riding horses of different skill levels/temperments and he wishes to do something my mount is uncapable of at the moment. In which case, if he keeps pushing the envelope, I give him a rough outline of the route I plan to use, and we go our separate ways for the duration of the ride.

I would ride with a group again, something about the excitement of all those horses riding out into the great unknown for miles and hours is powerfully appealing to me. But dang, gotta find a better match. The only time I get to get out of the walk only mode so far is with dh or by myself. Am glad I am not the only one who finds herself in a mismatched group - that is truly not fun after awhile.

[TripleRipple]

And as if that was not a long enough reply, I'd add that I got fed up with us being the only two in english saddles. Yes, I own western saddles and love them. But I love my english gear as well. But this is cowboy country and even if you ride with non-cowboys, you'd better be in your western saddle. I got told once that it was common knowledge that only gay people ride in english saddles...by a guy who is a weekend warrior on a horse, but only every 4th weekend at that. Its good that I have a sense of humor....

Mind you - dh and I have taken the Stretch brothers down rather steep rocky hillsides in those little english saddles, and have had to wait at the bottom for our fellow riders, who dismounted their western saddled 14h horses and led them down the same hill. What's up with that?

[5]

Ah yes, the fat slow short horses with matching riders. Nice people to barbeque with but not to seriously ride with.
Never thought about the english saddle bit. I think it is a 60:30:10 split in favor of english:western:aussie/treeless/endurance saddles in our group.

I'd like to pack a few beers with me to help me slow myself down to their speed but several of the group are AA so that wouldn't be a very good choice.

[TripleRipple]

5 - Yes, but don't you think a case is pushing the envelope, lol.

And in fact, I now pack some butterscotch schnapps in a flask in their honor... DH did take beer once, but Stretch insists on sharing whatever he takes, and it wasn't pretty. Horse has been cut off the bottle....

[Jingo-ace]

Ride Alone.

End of Problem.

J

[5]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jingo-ace:
Ride Alone.

End of Problem.

J </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Start of domestic discourse if I even try. My safety minded hubby (on laid back daughter of my mare) would never let me do that.
I think maybe if I secretly amp up his mare on grain so she wants to go far & fast riding in a pair might do it.

If I have to do the group thing again I'm riding in sneakers and walking my mare a good part of the way just so I am moving - I'll get the riding is sneakers lecture but it is better than the other arguments.
God I sound like the enduance addict from the rider types list.

Ohhh! I've got a way to get my point across to the other riders. I'll invite a horse crazy track runner out for a ride & tie on my mare then everone else will have to wait on us!.

[katarine]

5, I ride with Mr Kat and a friend sometimes, and we mostly get along great. On bigger group rides, her horse can get really upset about not being in first place. He's such a good guy when in smaller company, but he goes bonkers over too many other horses to deal with.

At a Ray Hunt clinic that she and I attended, she asked him about it, and his answer was to circle that horse in a snug circle til he gave to the pressure and relaxed, then resume her ride= in time, with patience, he'd get the idea- chill out and walk, buddy, it's ok. I asked him point blank if there was anything I could do to help. His answer, "Stay out of her way".

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif basically, not your horse, not your problem. If someone elses horse is a butt, that's not your problem. Selective deafness works, too. Trot off, humming to your mare, sing, something;then you can play the oh I'm sorry, I didn't hear you' game.

[Noctis]

i feel your pain. I don't mind taking out beginners every now and then, heck when I was a beginner people did it for me, but still. The worst time had to be when we all decided to take a break and get off...and one certain person forgot to tie her mare, who had a penchant for running off. Great. 5 miles later I caught up with her (the mare), but it rather killed my opinions of riding with beginners.

Yeah riding with 1 or 2 others that can "keep up" or have the same mentality is so much better

[Kaydence]

My sister has whined to me about this sort of thing since I was a child. She rarely rides with anyone at the barn. She does have the advantage that her horse is (as when she was a child) the best mannered horse in the ride so she can go off and do her own thing. At her barn the thing to do is everyone ride off at breakneck speeds and stop when the horses are exhausted. She just wanders off and does her own ride shortly after the craziness starts. Her horses are conditioned to go much further than the poor weekend ridden horses who are galloped so hard.

I have started stating what type of ride I'm in the mood for before I leave. If I have my children or fiance with me, the ride will cater to their inexperience. If I want to really ride, I go off by myself and take my cel phone along. If someone asks me to help them while they are riding a green or crazy horse, I bring one of my quieter horses on the ride.

Everyone who rides with me knows that if they want to go ahead of me and I'm on an inexperienced horse who acts up, they can go ahead but just wander back every so often to make sure I'm ok because I pick the fight EVERY time with my horses. Usually by the second ride they can leave and my mount minds his manners (my mare never did care if anyone else was with us on the ride.).

I highly recommend just telling people what type or ride you are going on for the day so they can bow out before it starts.

(I still love riding with my sister best. We don't have to check with eachother about, "Would you like to trot now? I'm going to canter along the next stretch, is that ok?" We just ride so much the same and our horses know to wait for us to decide, not follow the horse in front of us.)

[Trakehners2000]

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Each person rides different, it doesn't make the slower rider worse or you better.</span> http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<span class="ev_code_PINK">I'd say the problem is your choice of companions. </span><span class="ev_code_BLUE">Simply get better at who you invite, or don't go, or go alone.</span>
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[Kaydence]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trakehners2000:
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Each person rides different, it doesn't make the slower rider worse or you better.</span> http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<span class="ev_code_PINK">I'd say the problem is your choice of companions. </span><span class="ev_code_BLUE">Simply get better at who you invite, or don't go, or go alone.</span>
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true, Trakehners but it is frustrating when you have a horse who is walking out nicely and behaving well yet you hear complaints about you going too fast. I will walk on ahead and then stop for a break but I will not hold my horse back into a poor walk. I ride to enjoy it foremost but I also use trail riding to improve a poor walk or to help in bombproofing my horse so I don't want to encourage any poor behaviour/movement while I'm out on the trails. I just figure every horse can pratice standing still so if we get ahead of the group, there is still value is stopping and waiting. I don't see value in teaching prancing or pony walking for my horses.

On Sunday, one of my daughters was riding my 14.1hh mare while my fiance and and I were on the 16.1hh geldings. As I mentioned, my mare has never cared who is on the ride with her so she was happy as can be, viewing the scenery and falling behind while the horse I was on knew his business and walked out with huge strides. The other horse was between us. Sometimes I'd call back to my daughter and have her trot up to us. Other times I'd stop and let the others pass me and get a head start so I could watch how they were doing. When I'm riding the mare, she walks with a lot more oomph and keeps up better but I'm not gonna complain when she is being slow but moving obediently for my 8 year old. Sunday was about me enjoying my family so we chose to cater to everything being stress-free and slow.

[RTM Anglo's]

Whiners and complainers! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Love that crowd. You will always find them. These people are unable to control their horses, and place the blame upon the experienced and competent riders. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Slow down...you go to fast...you are a yahoo...your horse is out-of-control...you are making my horse upset...you talk too loud & are startling my horse...

PLEASE people shut up and learn to control your own horse IMHO. I can't help it if you cannot graduate over a walk, go up a hill, go down a hill, let a horse pass, or plan handle everyday life in the normal world. Work with your horse and train "them" to accept the "people" world and all of our ways.

I so hear you on these whiners! I have done endurance rides where I am passing and the person in front of me states I am rude. Holy cow...I can't do the ride at someone else's speed it's a race. OMG http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I just politely say...passing please on your left and go. Let them bitch...as their horse swings to the side back and forth. Don't bring your horse if you can't control them IMO http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Mind you I am not talking the beginning of the ride...but 10+ miles into.

Yes, I have had a very good friend of mine also whine and complain throughout the ride. Slow down...not so fast. Lets stop. OMG http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sleepy.gif

I finally told her...(like all good marriages…ahhahah) I can't do it always all her way. She cried, and got over it, like good friends do. We made a compromise and ride in the middle.

Yes, I agree when riding in large groups it can be a pain, especially if your horse is a mover and theirs are dead-horses-walking! Ahahahaa. I suggest doing a 5 or 10-mile blast at a canter before you go, or lunge your horse for 30+ mins. Take a deep breath and remind yourself "I love this sport...I love this sport". Then do a shot or two…and find your smile.

Good communication is the key. Learn to be honest and straightforward. People will respect you for it. (not always but screw them) Tell your friends…husband…what ever you don’t appreciate the passive-aggressive remarks on your horse. If you don’t mind washing it every time you ride…that is your right. If you are not putting them out by doing so, they need to can it!

Don’t bottle up your irritations…let them go. It is obvious that the people around you feel free to voice their opinions…so join them and let them know how you feel too. Don’t expect them to support your opinions…as you are in control of your horse, and they are not with theirs.

I can think of two sayings for this. 1. You are only as fast as your tail. 2. And the squeaky wheel gets the grease. These are your constraints.

[Sparks5]

Oh gawd! I know the pain. I have a very dear friend who I love to pieces but when it comes to riding....aaaaagggggh! She has a very S.L.O.W. western pleasure gelding who isn't afraid of anything, but he is S.L.O.W. He has very upright clubbed front feet for one thing and he gets sore and tired fast. I just cringe when she wants to ride with me. I love spending time with her, but she really needs a new horse! haha.

Me and my mare like to go fast and far. We do mostly fast trotting and cantering with some long gallops. Her gelding is most comfortable at the walk or jog trot. So the whole ride my mare is lunging forward and getting pissed. We are usually 20 feet up ahead and I end up doing lots of circles and stopping so she can keep up.

Last ride we did was 6 miles and her gelding was hot, tired, and wet. My mare was just getting warmed up and hadn't sweated or even WORKED yet! lol http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[mustangrider]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 5:
Ah yes, the fat slow short horses with matching riders. Nice people to barbeque with but not to seriously ride with.
Never thought about the english saddle bit. I think it is a 60:30:10 split in favor of english:western:aussie/treeless/endurance saddles in our group. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Not all short horses are slow walkers. I ride a 14.2 hand mare that is the fastest walking horse I've ever seen. She gets those little legs just a moving along that I outwalk everyone else I'm riding with by at least a quarter mile. One the way home from a pack trip I got back to the trailer one hour before the rest of the crew and this was done at a walk only.

You want some serious riding? I'll show you some serious riding that will scare your socks off.

[Sparks5]

Yup, I agree with you mustangrider!! My mare sticks at 14 hands plus a tiny smidge and just "touches" on 14.1 with shoes on. She is hands down the quickest horse I've ever ridden. She doesn't walk, she MARCHES! And her trot leaves everybody else in the dust.

[wendy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> but it is frustrating when you have a horse who is walking out nicely and behaving well yet you hear complaints about you going too fast. I will walk on ahead and then stop for a break but I will not hold my horse back into a poor walk. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I mostly agree with you, I tend to trail ride alone for the reasons you state, but I have ridden with two people like you, who let their horses go speed-walking off much faster than the rest of the group, and refuse to rein in their horse, and it was SO IRRITATING. Hands-down, the most irritating thing I've ever experienced. I'd rather babysit whiners or deal with a psycho green horse than go through that again. It also drove the rest of the horses nuts, trying to keep up. The other horses could not match the pace. They physically could not walk that fast, but their trots were too fast. After awhile of being left behind, running to catch up, and everyone repeatedly asking the person to slow down that horse and her refusing, and us all knowing her horse was perfectly capable of walking slower, tempers were fraying. She was out of line. If you ride with a group, you do what the group wants.

[Darkhollow Farm]

Your post brought back memories of many types of group rides! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Before my old Morgan was retired and came home to live we boarded at a lovely barn with great trails. I learned quickly which horses and riders would be good to team up with. It could have been that I didn't care for the behavior of horse or rider or that my horse wasn't matched well with another pair.

We couldn't do the "Snowy River Rides". I think my poor boy would have tumbled down the ravines instead of thundering down them - and I couldn't join in on the "jumping trail rides" either. My guy didn't jump - he CLIMBED over the obstacles. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

We had the most fun alone. I know that riding alone doesn't work for some - and it really isn't the safest thing to do in retrospect - but we did our own thing and weren't a bother to anyone and we didn't have to contend with dogs on the rides (my boy struck at them) or horses ridden up our respective butts, or spooking horses and the like.

I guess if you could ride away from groups you would have the most enjoyment. I wish you luck.

[katarine]

Wendy that's pretty selfish. I've worked really hard to get my horse to open up his walk, to really step up from behind and drive and I don't want to and won't tear that work down by lugging on him to make him crawl. Mr. Katarine's horse can't walk at my horse's pace, so he catches up via a short trotting spell, or I double back-if the rider in your scenario wouldn't double back or stop and wait from time to time, either she is a loner who doesn't care for company on the trails, and considered you guys a separate group, basically, or you guys weren't her cup of tea. I'll stop and let a group catch up to me, but I won't ruin a good walk with a heavy hand.

[wendy]

I'm just reporting my experience. Such behavior was irritating beyond belief. I would flat-out refuse to ride with you if you pulled that stunt on me. You want to go work on your power walk, go do it alone. Selfish? think about my horse. Normally very well behaved on trail even when horses go nuts around him, has a lovely trot and canter, walks at a reasonable speed, just not super-fast, and he was a grumpy, seething, mess after a hour with someone who let her horse march on like that, AND he was obnoxious the next time we rode that trail, by ourselves. When you ride with a group, you do what the group wants (and can do). You asked whether you were out of line, and in my opinion, based on personal experience, you were. If the group repeatedly requests you to slow down, maybe you should think about why they are doing so.

[Kaydence]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wendy:
I'm just reporting my experience. Such behavior was irritating beyond belief. I would flat-out refuse to ride with you if you pulled that stunt on me. You want to go work on your power walk, go do it alone. Selfish? think about my horse. Normally very well behaved on trail even when horses go nuts around him, has a lovely trot and canter, walks at a reasonable speed, just not super-fast, and he was a grumpy, seething, mess after a hour with someone who let her horse march on like that, AND he was obnoxious the next time we rode that trail, by ourselves. When you ride with a group, you do what the group wants (and can do). You asked whether you were out of line, and in my opinion, based on personal experience, you were. If the group repeatedly requests you to slow down, maybe you should think about why they are doing so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem comes down to compatibility. I am able to ride my horses in most any trail riding situation and if someone else says they have a good trail riding horse, I expect that means the same. In that case, they and their horse should be able to deal with horses in front, behind, wandering off, even sometimes acting up not to mention dogs, culverts, bridges, mailboxes, blueboxes and litter.

It is up to the person who isn't able to control their horse to speak up without being bitchy about it. If we're on a ride and someone finds out they can't deal with their horses behaviour, they can state that THEY are having a problem (it isn't my problem!) and could I please help them out. I'm willing to help out but not to take the blame for someone else not being at the same level as me and my horse. That isn't arrogant. I can't ride Grand Prix dressage as much as I'd love to but I can ride the trails. That is my strength and I don't have to appologize for it.

When I go out on my stallion, I am very clear ahead of time to the other riders that this is a green horse to the trails, I will pick a fight with him BUT I might need some rider support from the others. It is agreed before we go out. If they let me down THEN, I'd be pissed off. Before the ride is the time to state your needs and level of commitment to the ride. Know your limitations and the limitations of your mount. When I'm out on any of my other horses, I'll deal with what happens no matter what the other riders are doing. The other riders know it isn't their problem and nothing more than a glance back at me is needed before they head off on their own and my horses get stuck with me being the center of their Universe.

[katarine]

Wendy if your horse was a butthead because someone was ahead of him, then honestly that is your problem, not the other rider's problem http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif what would your horse have done on the ride I attended this past weekend; 80+ riders, strung out all up and down a ride that covered 16 miles over 6000 acres? Would we have all had to pile up on top of each other so your horse would have a pacifier??

I'm really not sure what stunt I'm pulling by riding MY horse at his good walking pace?; we're talking about horses that walk at vastly different speeds- one's pokey, one's forward - we're not talking about me racing up and down the trail full gallop, pulling your horse's tail as I pass- so what stunt is it that I'd be pulling? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[saratoga]

My endurance horse has developed a "power walk" over the years, which I of course really like! I occasionally go on a ride with my trail riding club, whose horses walk speeds vary from on-the-slow-side-of-average to excruciatingly, zombie-like slowly. If I am carrying on a conversation and really want to stay with someone, I will do frequently half-halt or halt my horse, do circles, or kind of weave from side to side but I generally can't stand it for very long and go ahead. That has probably ticked people off on occasion, but oh well...

I am also starting to ride my tiny 4 year old Arab- she walks very slowly and we do a lot of trotting in between to keep up, but I wouldn't expect other people to make their horses crawl just for our sake. At this point, I wouldn't ride her with a power-walker either, but I expect her to improve her walk over the years as she gets stronger. I guess I need to take her on club rides soon!!!!

[katarine]

gahhh- I hate trying to write out my responses, I always jumble something...Look, I *can* control him- but this powerwalk is doing some damn good body-building on him, and I am telling God and everybody that sure, I'll ask him to poke along a little while at a crawl so I can talk to my friends,drink a beer http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and such-- I know what you are saying gothedistance and I wasn't clear on that earlier- of course it won't ruin anything about him...but crawling over 16 miles of trail- at a crawl? No, I am not going to do that! I'm going to let him walk on and get some exercise, too-if that means someone else's horse has a jigging fit- then just exactly whose horse needs training? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[katarine]

"Heavens to mirgatroid" - I thought only I said that!

Glad to understand you better now, lol.

[CanterQueen]

I've learned to carefully pick who I trail ride with. We have a gal at our barn who screams at everyone for anything above a walk. She's made her horse is an absolute nervous mess. Needless to say, I don't ride with her anymore -- ever. But I am willing to defer to the lowest rider -- IF this is discussed before we hit the trails. Don't get me wrong, I love to gallop through the open meadows, but sometimes it's okay to just meander down the trail. We're out there to have fun by golly!!

[Trakehner]

Jeeze, what memories you brought up.

First off, why do these people want to ride with you? Are they afraid of getting lost in the great woods? Want company of someone who knows what they're doing? Like to look at your horse's butt as it gets smaller in the distance? Who knows sometimes.

I had a big Saddlebred mare, a tremendous trail horse who never seemed to get tired. Tough horse who had a huge walk and trot. Every once in a while, a bunch of fellow boarders would ask if they could come along. "Sure", I said, "but we go kinda' fast". "No problem!", they said.

So, with this gaggle in front and behind me we did a nice slow walk to warm up the muscles. We came to a huge sod field and I let my mare really stretch out for a mile or so(on the road in the middle, not on the grass, of course). We slowed to a slow trot, turned around and there were riders and horses spread out all up and down the road. I went back to pick up the peices, everyone was OK, some riders more bug-eyed than their horses and they did a slow gimp back to the barn. We went out for another couple of hours covering a lot of miles, and having a ball.

I learned from this...to ride alone or with very well matched horses and riders.

Then, I met my ex-wife. She had a terrible horse (slow and dishonst), took up riding as an adult and was very timid...worst of all, she was a "you must attend" person, demanding I ride with her at her pace and standard. Not fun. Kept the horse, ditched the wife...my mare and I were much happier.

[wendy]

actually, thanks for asking, my horse is fine with people suddenly galloping past him. With horses riding off into the sunset and leaving him behind permanently. With horses physically crashing into him from behind. With horses turning around and going home and leaving him out alone. He's NOT fine with someone who his rider is informing him is supposedly part of the group, who he is supposed to stay with, walking rapidly off, so he has to rush to catch up, then slow down, then rush, then slow down, then rush, and have all the other horses in the group trying to rush, and slow down, and rush, and slow down, and horses bumping into each other, because it's hard to coordinate when to rush and when to slow, and even the horses in the back of line, who can't even see the rude walking-off horse, getting all upset and in a frazzle.
Rudest, most irritating behavior I've ever encountered on trail. And I've encountered a lot.

[katarine]

Wendy, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be obtuse-I think somehow we're just not understanding each other I guess. I can't understand the group in question working that hard to stay with one person...unless no one else knew where they were going, why not say to Hell with her and just enjoy the rest of the group? That's where I'm getting lost on your point.

[wendy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> but it is frustrating when you have a horse who is walking out nicely and behaving well yet you hear complaints about you going too fast. I will walk on ahead and then stop for a break but I will not hold my horse back into a poor walk. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

this was your post. I just wanted to point out that most people would regard this behavior as unbelievably rude, especially if it continues after requests for it to stop. I don't understand why you think it is a good thing that you can't control your horse's speed.

[Kaydence]

I don't think that is an indication of not being able to control a horses speed so much as not WANTING to interfere with a great, loose, open stride. If I was with a group who didn't want me to stop and wait up for them like that, I'd just head off on my own. I guess my children are the only beginner riders I ride with often because I don't really have this problem with anyone that I can think of off hand.

If I am with someone who has asked me to help get their horse used to the trails, I stick by them and I'm just as aware of their horse as my own. I wouldn't wander ahead on that person and put them at risk of a bad experience with their training. I want them to love the trails as much as I do.

I think if a horse going back and forth between the group upsets your horse then it is a gap in that horses training. It doesn't mean it is the end of the world, that you have a crappy horse or you are a bad rider, it is just an area that hasn't been fully addressed (perhaps because you don't care to.). Any of my horses who I've ridden full time for a year or more, don't care where the others are on the ride. The ones I would still have this issue with are the ones that are ridden by my kids or fiance and I only get on them to tune them up. Hmmmm, actually only one of the two my fiance rides would pull that but we've had him less than a year and I've only ridden him once or twice in that time. He might be too established in his habits for me to break of it no matter how much riding I put on him. Not sure. I don't plan on working with him much.

I agree with Trakehner, keep the horse but ditch the riding companions who don't fit. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
My favourite person in the world to go riding with is my sister and she was the queen of not caring if others were in control of their horses or not. She always rode her horse in control and we learned how to be better riders because of her. I sure do know how much it sucks when you're 8 years old, riding a shetland who doesn't care about anything but keeping that other horses butt in view! But I never turned down the chance to follow that butt! I just learned how to stick to anything!

[horse of course]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have an advanced trail(wannabe endurance) horse (will go 'anywhere' I point her and usually fairly </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have an advanced trail(wannabe endurance) horse (will go 'anywhere' I point her and usually fairly fast)
More often than not when we trail ride there is at least 1 suddenly invited guest who can barely ride or one horese that can't handle anything more stimulating than trot (slowly).
Ill I hear the entire ride is 'you're going to fast don't do this, don't do that, that horse is green/been messed up in training, my horse kicks(no ribbon) stay back. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand your pain. My QH has a very fast paced singlefoot pace and can pretty much out walk any non gaited horse. My solution, is to hook up with gaited riders who can and do enjoy keeping the fast pace up.

And I'd like to point out that the original post had nothing to do with group riding. The author was talking about "uninvited" guests. It sounds to me like she was headed out for a solo ride. If you're anything like me, I know how hard it is to just say "NO, I'm riding alone today" but, I think the best thing would be to politely turn the uninvited guest down at the very begining! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[katarine]

Wendy I've tried to play nice but you are now refusing to read my entire posts- Hello? can you read any better than you ride? You have not managed to answer some reasonable, and reasoned, questions; You're just mad for mad's sake. you want to pick nits, go ahead. I can't find a way around the fact that your horse isn't broke from the tone of your rants, hence his agitation, and you are certain I'm rude astride a monster I can't control--ohhh, Kay.

The good news is - you are pissed on a slow walker in PN, and I'm just fine on a big walker in AL= chances are, you'll never a get chance to find out whether or not I'm unbelievably rude or not. Thank God for small favors.

[CanterQueen]

Trakehner said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I learned from this...to ride alone or with very well matched horses and riders </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree!!!!!!!! It's about having fun. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[wendy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Think about group trail riding as a team sport. If one elects to ride with a small group (up to 12 people), one enters into an unspoken agreement to be *part* of the group (team). You either play with the team, or you don't play at all. That includes staying up with, or throttling back, to the medium average (whatever that may be for that particular group) so that the ride progresses as a cohesive unit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but my objection really has nothing to do with my horse, or your horse, or anyone's horse. It's about rider behavior. The quote above is my attitude about trail rides in a nutshell. If you agree to go out with a group, you ride with the group. People who agree to go with a group, and then don't cooperate, well, it's rude. I've ridden with many a rude or irritating person, and lots of untrained psycho horses, and hands down, the most irritating, rudest behavior I've ever encountered is the person who insists on speed-walking off ahead of the group despite being asked not to. Now, if your companions really don't care (are you sure? maybe they hate it and just haven't had the courage to mention it) if you do this, that's different.

[wendy]

oh, and Kat, it is possible to be run away with at the walk, if you have to haul on your horse to slow him down, that may be what he is doing. Being able to do a slow lazy walk or a collected walk on request will not impair your horse's ability to do a powerful ground-covering extended walk.

[mustangrider]

And for all of the reasons stated is why I mostly ride alone or with a carefully chosen small group of close friends. We are all of a similar experience level (mountain riders) and have a great time together.

[goodhors]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wendy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Think about group trail riding as a team sport. If one elects to ride with a small group (up to 12 people), one enters into an unspoken agreement to be *part* of the group (team). You either play with the team, or you don't play at all. That includes staying up with, or throttling back, to the medium average (whatever that may be for that particular group) so that the ride progresses as a cohesive unit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but my objection really has nothing to do with my horse, or your horse, or anyone's horse. It's about rider behavior. The quote above is my attitude about trail rides in a nutshell. If you agree to go out with a group, you ride with the group. People who agree to go with a group, and then don't cooperate, well, it's rude. I've ridden with many a rude or irritating person, and lots of untrained psycho horses, and hands down, the most irritating, rudest behavior I've ever encountered is the person who insists on speed-walking off ahead of the group despite being asked not to. Now, if your companions really don't care (are you sure? maybe they hate it and just haven't had the courage to mention it) if you do this, that's different. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am SO GLAD that I do not have to ride in groups like you describe!! We go out to have fun, not be monitored by "understood, but unspoken" rules and regulations. Fun is covering some distance, not huge, but 3-10 miles, doing some faster work, not all walking. Each person is responsible for their own horse, keeping him controlled, out of trouble. If your horse has a problem with someone around him, ahead of him, we have lots of fix-it suggestions. We do not consider it rude to let the faster horses move ahead, our horses should be able to deal with it. No rule against the fussy horse learning to move faster too. Each horse should have a couple different walks, trots, canter or hand gallop speeds. Same as a car, you use all the gears when out trail riding.
We are polite, warn each other, speak loudly before doing something that may startle another horse. Horses in front may move off into a canter after telling us on the rear horses. They usually come back to group but sometimes wait for us to catch up.
For some reason this has worked out pretty well, we sure don't have the problems everyone is arguing about here. New folks, new to group horse might need some tuning up, to relax, ease up his race attitude, takes some more work by rider. My TB cross did a lot of circles and learned how to march on instead of doing the parade prance of excitement. Usually no one waited for us. She could walk as fast as she wanted to catch up, prance and we do circles or reverse our direction, getting further away from the group. She just could not be first ALL the time. She couldn't be next to her friends ALL the time. She had to also work alone, behind and ahead, LISTEN to me! Takes work, can be done. Took some time, she figured it out. Yeah I got really tired of correcting her, but the end is worth it. Good behaviour, control in all situations.

We have all kinds of animals in the group, everyone works at having an animal who is fun to ride, not an idiot in a group, no matter what is being done around him. Sorry, I have to say YOU the rider, are ultimatly responsible for your horse's behaviour, good or poor. Don't be pointing at everyone else if your horse gets jiggy from another horses unaggressive actions. Don't use him in a group if he ALWAYS acts like a jerk, FIX him. Being mad at everyone else will give YOU an ulcer. Riding should be fun, not a fault finding mission.
I also like a big walking horse, am more likely to encourage it than rein them in. I go out riding to cover ground, seldom ride with anyone who is on a mincing baby-stepper. I might not ask for his big walk, but am not going to hold horse back from his easiest natural walk just so they can keep up.

[Trakehner]

Yep, riding is...well...it should be fun. Too many variables can sure ruin it.

Timid riders, no-control riders, idiot horses who can't be apart from their field mate, riders who never shut up, whining riders and all the rest...every barn has em'.

The problem is, they don't see themselves or their horses as a problem. They've spent all their time making excuses or avoiding any situation where their horse's "hot buttons" would never be pushed. I had one woman scream at me when my horse gave a big whinny..her horse whinnied too and it scared her. One guy had two horses, they were so "joined at the wrist" he ponied one horse when he road the other. This was sure interesting on a trial ride.

Sometimes, it's just not worth the company to put up with all the twits.

[situpandride]

i am a trail rider, used to ride endurance and ct, i'll ride with anyone, i want my horse to be able to ride in a group or alone, fast or slow, they have to ride the way i ask them to, so it doeasn't really bother me who i ride with.
i think it's especailly good for endurance horses to be able to go out on a slow walk in a group, otherwise i found that they can get hypped up if they are always training for a ride, i want mine to be able to do what ever i ask within reason.
the only thing i do if there is a group ride is if i am the one that is going out and someone wants to tag along,if i am doing a specefic condtitioning ride i will say we are going out for 15 miles, i am trotting most of it and i am doing some interval training with galloppping spurts, i ride the ride i intecnd to, they can always turn around. so i give them fair warning. if they run into trouble, and you can tell early on, i'll ride back with them if they can't managne on their own and then go back out for my ride. if there's a group going out and i am asked to come along, i ride the way they want to. if they poke along, fine, i'll poke along wih them, it's no big deal, if my horse can't handle a slow ride in a group then i figure that's my training issue, just as if i had a horse that couldn't handle a fast ride in a group.