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View Full Version : Riding alone - Does anyone carry hand held stun guns etc.?



Huntertwo
Feb. 21, 2010, 03:28 PM
http://www.pscsafetyproducts.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21

http://www.americanselfdefenseproducts.com/stunguns.html
I always trail ride alone, often going miles into the deep woods with no one else within ear shot.

Also moving to a new barn next month which has an extensive trail system. Again, since I ride during the day, I always go out alone.

DH and my mom:) (I'm 49) always worry about running into undesirables out there.

I carry my phone, but what good does that do if you're miles from the barn, if you even get reception. Plus carry Pepper Spray.

I volunteer for a Feral Cat organization and our Coordinator carries a stun gun when she feeds in the dangerous neighborhoods.

http://www.pscsafetyproducts.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21

Just an example of a few....

Opinions? Does anyone else carry?

Thanks.

SharonA
Feb. 21, 2010, 04:27 PM
I'm not trained well enough in any deterrent (other than kicking, biting, screaming, and running) to carry anything, and I think that for me, trail riding requires enough leaps of faith in terms of trusting my tow vehicle, my trailer, my horse, my own ability to stay on, etc. for me to skip worrying to an extreme about being attacked. If I see a lone man walking through the woods in a way that I think is suspicious (ie, he doesn't have a dog that he clearly is taking for a nice walk, doesn't seem to be dressed for a hike, acts like he might be trying to hide), I am wary, but knock on wood, have never had an issue. This spring, though, I am signed up for a self-defense on horseback clinic, designed exactly for women out trail-riding alone. The description says it involves learning to recognize suspicious behavior and how to learn to use your horse to help you defend yourself, etc. There will be no stun-guns, etc. involved.

saddleup
Feb. 21, 2010, 04:41 PM
I carry pepper spray. I've only had one time where I got suspicious of someone on the trail, so I just gave him a wide berth at a canter. I'm not sure what it was about him, but the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. I saw a safety expert on t.v. who said you should never ignore those reactions, so I didn't.

I don't like guns particularly, so figure I'm better off not "packing" when riding.

citydog
Feb. 21, 2010, 05:12 PM
It's worth a search on here to read some of the other threads on self-defense. There's been some good advice.

I highly recommend Scot Hansen's video (http://www.horsethink.com/Videos-SelfDefense.htm) on self-defense for riders (focusing mostly on mounted stuff, but also what to do if you're on the ground with your horse and are attacked).

And I wish everyone would read Gavin de Becker's The Gift of Fear (http://www.amazon.com/Gift-Fear-Gavin-Becker/dp/0440508835). :yes:

Huntertwo
Feb. 21, 2010, 05:15 PM
God, no. :no::no::no::no::no:

If you want something to ward off wildlife, carry a hunt whip. Much safer as well as being an excellent visual deterrent for any human undesirables you might chance upon.


I do carry a Dressage whip that has good *distance* on it....

I'll have to check out what a hunt whip looks like.

LexInVA
Feb. 21, 2010, 05:49 PM
Stun guns are meant for close quarter engagements. You wouldn't be able to use one effectively on horseback due to the lack of reach and if you have skin-to-skin contact with the person you are using it on while you are using it on them, you'll get a nasty surprise. You'd be better off carrying a physical weapon that can inflict pain.

Rangergirl56m
Feb. 21, 2010, 05:54 PM
My .02 cents.

If you live in a state that allows you to carry a handgun with or without a permit... I would say carry it. Get the permit if you have to. It's worth it. However I am also a huge gun rights advocate and I think that if people choose to they should be able to exercise that right. My husband and I are very pro-gun right people.

Anytime either my husband or I ride, we always both have a handgun with us as well as a rifle. We both always carry pepper-spray however this doesn't much good if the person is more than a few feet away. We aren't so much worried about coming across people, but rather other animals. We have wild boars on our property that WILL go after horses, as well as cougars. All of our horses are gun broke and are completely comfortable being shot around and off of.

Like I said, this is just my personal view, I know that many people aren't comfortable carrying guns, but I would feel much safer carrying a hand gun than a stun-gun.

CoopsZippo
Feb. 21, 2010, 06:11 PM
I carry this

http://www.coldsteel.com/sjambok.html

Guilherme
Feb. 21, 2010, 06:14 PM
Anything you want to use from horseback for self defense requires two training paths: one for the rider and one for the horse.

I'd be warry of pepper spray. An errant gust of wind can put it in the horse's eye.

A stun gun would be less than useful; a cattle prod, on the other hand, might work out quite well.

A wooden "saber" usable as a "trunchion" would be a good choice in a lot of circumstances while mounted.

Handguns are fine, if you're proficient and the horse is gun broke.

The horse, itself, can be a weapon. Train the horse to respond quickly to cues and you can run 1000 pounds into an assailant. Then escape. I know folks who've taught their horses to kick on command.

There's no "school" answer, here, and one size won't fit all.

G.

tabula rashah
Feb. 21, 2010, 07:43 PM
I'd say just learn to pay attention to where you are and to what your horse is telling you. I mostly ride alone- I don't carry anything on me (and won't ever). However, I am much more aware of my surroundings than most women and I'm not an approachable person (sometimes that's a good thing;) )

Thomas_1
Feb. 21, 2010, 07:46 PM
No as in NO WAY

BayHorseUK
Feb. 21, 2010, 08:02 PM
Scary. And I don't mean the possible threats from others. :eek:

tabula rashah
Feb. 21, 2010, 08:11 PM
Scary. And I don't mean the possible threats from others. :eek:

Exactly

suto
Feb. 21, 2010, 08:37 PM
The first mistake is riding alone far into the deep woods. There is security in numbers. Cellphones,GPS and other electronics usually go kaput in the forest. I ride with others and carry a handgun. Riding in some state forests, I've had occasion to thank goodness my firearm was handy, due to encounters with both two and fourlegged critters.:yes:

pAin't_Misbehavin'
Feb. 21, 2010, 08:46 PM
To hear some of my neighbors tell it, we live in Dodge City. No woman should dare venture out alone or she'll be snatched off the road by the first transient worker who happens by and never heard from again.:eek:

Luckily, I didn't know any of my neighbors for the first few years I lived out here, and so I went walking alone for miles every evening after supper with nary an incident.:)

I bet you've been trail-riding alone for a long time now yourself. Has something happened that has made you question the safety of continuing to do so?

ETA: Sorry, didn't answer your question. NO, I don't carry a weapon. Because I'm a professional woman who has just enough time, most weeks, to do my job and ride my horse. If I were going to carry a weapon, I'd have to make time to practice practice practice to get myself proficient - and then I'd have to practice some more with my horse in the equation. I just don't feel afraid enough to justify the sacrifice of that much riding time.

suto
Feb. 21, 2010, 09:19 PM
Most folks are not afraid--until the wolf shows up. It doesn't take much practice with a handgun. An initial couple of hours of competent range instruction and a 20 minute monthly review at the firing line will suffice. You don't have to train the horse--just be prepared for the rodeo when the gun goes off!!

katarine
Feb. 21, 2010, 09:43 PM
nope. Ride a good horse and pay attention to where you are.

The only time/place we're armed is in MT with bear spray and a bear gun, in bear territory. Nowhere else. Would be suicidal at worst, foolish at best, to think you can fire a pistol off ol' Trigger any old time.

Painted Horse
Feb. 22, 2010, 12:41 AM
I've never felt threatened by a person while riding. Choose well the places you ride. I mean don't go riding through the woods where the bums/drugies live. I find most people who go to the trouble to exercise and get out and hike, bike or enjoy the out of doors are not scum bags. And are usually not a threat.

That said I carry a gun on wilderness trips. Not because I'm afraid of who I will run into. But rather a horse going down or as a noise maker to scare off a bear or other wild animal. It would ahve to be a really bizare event for me to even consider pulling a gun on a person. Better to just urge the horse on to leave the area. Distance is a better weapon in most cases.

And you don't have to have a rodeo on your horse when you fire a gun. Look at all the Cowboy Action Shooters who shoot six guns off their horse back. I'm an avid hunter and often shoot my rifes around my horses. No big deal.

meupatdoes
Feb. 22, 2010, 02:06 AM
I can honestly say the thought has never occurred to me.


Then again, I go on trail rides through some woods and along the hay fields, not...

...the projects in Detroit...?

Huntertwo
Feb. 22, 2010, 06:28 AM
The first mistake is riding alone far into the deep woods. There is security in numbers. Cellphones,GPS and other electronics usually go kaput in the forest. I ride with others and carry a handgun. Riding in some state forests, I've had occasion to thank goodness my firearm was handy, due to encounters with both two and fourlegged critters.:yes:

I've always trail ridden alone, because I get out of work at noon and there is no one around at that time to ride with.

I enjoy riding alone anyway....

I'm very aware of my surroundings and people around. It is my DH and mom that are always worried for my safety.

The new barn I'm moving to has 16,000 acres of direct access to State Forest. Although my area is quite safe, you never know.....

I do have a .38 that I keep at home only. I went through the gun course, but never went to get a permit. Although, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable carrying a gun, but I used to target practice with my brother and father all the time.

JollyBadger
Feb. 22, 2010, 08:01 AM
I've always trail ridden alone, because I get out of work at noon and there is no one around at that time to ride with.

I enjoy riding alone anyway....



I can certainly relate to this! When I first moved my horse to a barn with good trail access, all of the other boarders and the BO had regular M-F jobs and really only rode on weekends. I had one day off during the week, and it was on a weekday. If I wanted to get much riding done, it usually had to be on that day, which usually meant riding alone.

Even now, I'm at a different barn but most of the boarders there are definitely "fair weather" riders. If I waited to have someone to ride with, I'd only get to ride a few times a year. Besides, I do enjoy being out on the trail for solo rides

My horse is used to hearing gunshots, and the people I bought him from said they used to squirrel hunt off his back, so I don't think he would have an issue if I did have to use a gun. Personally, though, I do not feel that a gun would be a good option as self-defense for me and I really don't want to have to pack one. I'd spend the whole ride worrying about it.

Scot Hansen's video on self defense for trail riders is good, and his clinics are even better. If you have a chance to ride in or just audit one, I recommend it!

katyb
Feb. 22, 2010, 09:23 AM
I have a carry permit, but I've never felt the urge to carry my handgun while riding. I do ride alone, but the areas I frequent are generally busy with mountain bikers and hikers, and I just don't feel any threat. My horse is steady and reliable and will outrun anyone if need be. My husband would like me to carry my gun, but it just seems like an unnecessary weight to me right now. That could change over time. I'm lucky, lol, enough to have had a very annoying neighbor who randomly shot his guns right by the horse barn, so my horses don't even flick an ear at a gunshot anymore.

tollertwins
Feb. 22, 2010, 09:32 AM
Wind and rain resistant pepper spray.

pepperblaster.com

pj
Feb. 22, 2010, 09:51 AM
If I see a lone man walking through the woods in a way that I think is suspicious (ie, he doesn't have a dog that he clearly is taking for a nice walk, doesn't seem to be dressed for a hike, acts like he might be trying to hide), .


Ok I had to respond to this. SharonA please don't think if you meet a man in the woods taking his doggie for a walk that it means he is a safe nice person.
We animal people tend to think that way and probably would even stop for a min. to talk but we had a case here in Ga. not long ago where a female hiker with HER dog was kidnaped and horribly murdered by a man with HIS dog.
It used to be that if a man was with a dog, a woman or a child they were safe.
That isn't the case any longer.
I ride alone in heavily wooded trails and I don't carry a weapon but if I come up on someone I speak from a distance and try not to get close enough for them to ever make a grab.

rmh_rider
Feb. 22, 2010, 10:01 AM
I have ridden alone about 95% of my whole life. I have been riding since I was a kid.

No gun. Usually carry a pocket knife, which is more useful than a gun or stun gun. Also carry a hoof pick.

I have no problem riding along without a gun, or stun gun. I have ridden mostly all arabs, and they are plenty fast if need be to get away.

Had a QH, never felt safe on him due to his very laid back/lazy attitude.

Now I have a Rocky, and she is usually on her toes so feel safe on her.

IOW on the arabians (THE ultimate trail horse imo) and the rocky, I know I can count on either of them to get away fast if need be. No, neither I consider fruitbats on the trail. They pay attention! I like a horse who pays attention and can respond when needed. It can be ANY breed. Not breed bashing.

matryoshka
Feb. 22, 2010, 10:03 AM
No weapons except my brain.

I highly recommend you check out Scot Hansen's trail rider safety information.

angie j
Feb. 22, 2010, 10:36 AM
Where the heck are you rideing that you think you need a gun???

For the first thing, you're on a horse... who 'can't' you outrun??

Second what are the odds a 'nut bar' is gonna choose to sit in wait in a forest? Wouldn't a walker be an easier victim?

Third, the odds of a 'wild' animal attacking are slim to none, barring a rabid one. I have many four legged creatures cross my path and they barely take a sideways glance.

You're letting your imagination and fear get the better of you.

ChocoMare
Feb. 22, 2010, 10:52 AM
I ride alone 98% of the time too. Just have no choice. And I ride where a female cyclist was accosted, raped and murdered. Alas, it happens and can happen anywhere.

I will 5th or 6th the Scott Hanson videos and clinics. I attended several of his two years ago and it sure showed me stuff I didn'tknow. Well worth the money and time.

I don't ride armed with a weapon. I use my internal radar, as well as my mare's (one of Scott's points). We can be moseying along and come up on someone who's "creepy," immediately my mare's head and ears are up and she tenses. I listen to her cues and we move out quickly.

matryoshka
Feb. 22, 2010, 11:01 AM
We simply do not get close to hikers on the trail, even if I have to backtrack. Not worth the slightest chance of them getting kicked, and it isn't worth taking a chance that they mean me harm.

I've got decent radar for creeps. Still, when your mind is on other things, that is when you are most vulnerable. They look for preoccupied people.

The stuff on Scot's video isn't necessarily common sense. Some of the things we'd do out of reflex are stuff the predators count on us doing to make it easier to get us out of the saddle. He made an interesting point at the Timonium Horse Expo this year that rapes and murders that occur to horsewomen aren't reported as being horse related. Whether a woman was on a horse isn't a statistic that is noted. Maybe in an individual report or a new cast, but not compiled in a database. So we really don't know how many attacks occur against horsewomen on a yearly basis.

I, for one, do not mind the thought of galloping away from a pursuer. You don't have to run that awful far to get away. I gallop my horses regularly. When I get most uneasy is at the trail head, where I have to dismount, and if there are people by the trailers, I check them out pretty carefully for any behavior that seems out of place.

Paranoid or prudent, you be the judge. However, I will not become a victim. Period.

JollyBadger
Feb. 22, 2010, 12:03 PM
I ride alone 98% of the time too. Just have no choice. And I ride where a female cyclist was accosted, raped and murdered. Alas, it happens and can happen anywhere.

I will 5th or 6th the Scott Hanson videos and clinics. I attended several of his two years ago and it sure showed me stuff I didn'tknow. Well worth the money and time.

I don't ride armed with a weapon. I use my internal radar, as well as my mare's (one of Scott's points). We can be moseying along and come up on someone who's "creepy," immediately my mare's head and ears are up and she tenses. I listen to her cues and we move out quickly.

The one thing Scot teaches that I really liked and appreciated was trusting your intuition about a person or situation. It's not just about picking out the potential "predator" based on the clothes they are wearing, whether or not they have a dog, etc. Sometimes it's just having a gut feeling and paying attention to it.

Huntertwo
Feb. 22, 2010, 01:32 PM
Hunter Two -

No matter how you package this, the stun gun can be a deadly weapon and if the person you stun ends up dead, you can be charged with manslaughter. The burden of proof will be on you to prove it was self defense, and that could cost you everything you own - house, property, all your money/savings - for legal defense on your behalf.

Is it worth it?

From the description of a stun gun:

Stun guns use a high-voltage low-current electrical discharge to override voluntary muscle control. When an attacker is touched by an active stun device, either to skin or clothing, he goes down almost immediately. That's because the normal glucose supply to the nerves and muscles is rapidly depleted, replaced by lactic acid. The assailant experiences loss of balance and muscle control, confusion and disorientation for five to ten minutes. The effect on the heart is insignificant. Because the amount of current is relatively low, there is considered to be a 'margin' of safety by a number of medical experts. To date, the scientific literature finds no permanent effects when applied to reasonably healthy individuals.

This is a VERY NARROW definition of a "safe use", and with more and more cases hitting the courts by people severely hurt, or by the estates of those killed by stun guns, the final sentences (taken from a stun gun sales site BTW) of the above should be viewed through very sceptical eyes. If the health or condition of person you target isn't in this part of the bell shaped curve, you could end up doing significant damage to the individual for which you can and will be liable.

To be honest I think you are really overreacting to the type of force you are considering carrying while riding alone in a State owned/State controlled environment. If I were you, I'd back off, just carry a can of pepper spray and your cell phone in your pocket, and your dressage whip in your hand. Give your family a map of the trails you plan to travel, and let them know when to expect you back home. Remind your family that you are NOT on foot - you are on a big, fast horse which can be the best means of escape for almost any encounter.

That should put their minds at ease, and leave you and your horse to have a wonderful, safe, fun time riding in your new location. :)

I agree - Thanks... I just wanted to get opinions.

I'll just carry the pepper spray and my Dressage whip.

Huntertwo
Feb. 22, 2010, 01:44 PM
Ok I had to respond to this. SharonA please don't think if you meet a man in the woods taking his doggie for a walk that it means he is a safe nice person.
We animal people tend to think that way and probably would even stop for a min. to talk but we had a case here in Ga. not long ago where a female hiker with HER dog was kidnaped and horribly murdered by a man with HIS dog.
It used to be that if a man was with a dog, a woman or a child they were safe.
That isn't the case any longer.
I ride alone in heavily wooded trails and I don't carry a weapon but if I come up on someone I speak from a distance and try not to get close enough for them to ever make a grab.

I do remember that story..sad.

A good example of a normal, well dressed person was the infamous serial killer Ted Bundy.

He went so far to put a fake cast on either his arm or leg, and would ask women to help him put something in his car and grab them at that point.:no:

I'll definately check out the Scot Hanson video. I've heard a lot of good things about him.

matryoshka
Feb. 22, 2010, 06:45 PM
The thing about pepper spray is that it can get in your horse's eye. What's he going to do if this happens? Panic, most likely, and leave you in the dust with the predator. Any weapon you carry can be used against you. If he's got a weapon, you're likely to see that early in the assault.

Best thing is to learn how not to be selected as a victim in the first place so you don't have to worry about how to get away if you aren't attacked in the first place. We should definitely know tactics for getting away, but seriously, learn how to be less enticing a target. These guys are like most types of predators: they'll pick situations where they have a high chance of success and will pass up situations where they are likely to be injured or defeated.

There was a class held on how not to be a victim when I was in college. It was a small campus and there had been three rapes in a short period of time, so the police department held a seminar for us. What I learned there has been incorporated into my life. I've done my best to teach my kids how be alert as well.

Jaegermonster
Feb. 22, 2010, 07:31 PM
If someone has gotten close enough to you on horseback that you are able to use a stun gun, it is too late to be worrying about it. They are too close to you.
The best defense is do not let them get close.
Don't shake hands with people, even if they think you rude. It is terribly easy to jerk someone right off their horse shaking hands. Plus they can easily grab your leg and throw you off the other side.
And you would be amazed how easy it is to walk up to a rider and take the bridle right off their horse.

Don't let people get too close to you, esp if you are riding alone.

There are lots of people doing mounted self defense courses. I'm sure you could google it and find one in your area or if you have a mounted police dept or posse where you are they can probably help you.

Jaegermonster
Feb. 22, 2010, 07:33 PM
The thing about pepper spray is that it can get in your horse's eye. What's he going to do if this happens? Panic, most likely, and leave you in the dust with the predator. Any weapon you carry can be used against you. If he's got a weapon, you're likely to see that early in the assault.

Best thing is to learn how not to be selected as a victim in the first place so you don't have to worry about how to get away if you aren't attacked in the first place. We should definitely know tactics for getting away, but seriously, learn how to be less enticing a target. These guys are like most types of predators: they'll pick situations where they have a high chance of success and will pass up situations where they are likely to be injured or defeated.

There was a class held on how not to be a victim when I was in college. It was a small campus and there had been three rapes in a short period of time, so the police department held a seminar for us. What I learned there has been incorporated into my life. I've done my best to teach my kids how be alert as well.

Pepper spray does not affect the horses because of the way their tear ducts are. We train with it and also with gas grenades all the time with the field forces and the horses could care less.

the other advice given was good.

matryoshka
Feb. 22, 2010, 07:46 PM
Never heard that. I'd sure test it out with my horse before carrying it.

Hey, a friend sent me an email about using wasp spray for self defense. It made me wonder about carrying a can in a water-bottle holster. That stuff sprays pretty far (and hopefully it is directed enough that it wouldn't overspray into a horse's eyes). The thing is, though, that if you have time to get it out and use it on an attacker, that time could have been better spent getting away.

Nike13
Feb. 23, 2010, 10:00 AM
If someone start to get too close, I like to use the ,"careful, he bites/kicks" excuse. It tends to keep otherwise overly friendly people at a safe distance, especially when you're on a really big horse.

mzpeepers
Feb. 23, 2010, 12:06 PM
Where the heck are you rideing that you think you need a gun???

For the first thing, you're on a horse... who 'can't' you outrun??

Second what are the odds a 'nut bar' is gonna choose to sit in wait in a forest? Wouldn't a walker be an easier victim?

Third, the odds of a 'wild' animal attacking are slim to none, barring a rabid one. I have many four legged creatures cross my path and they barely take a sideways glance.

You're letting your imagination and fear get the better of you.


This. :yes:

Huntertwo
Feb. 23, 2010, 01:49 PM
Where the heck are you rideing that you think you need a gun???

For the first thing, you're on a horse... who 'can't' you outrun??

Second what are the odds a 'nut bar' is gonna choose to sit in wait in a forest? Wouldn't a walker be an easier victim?



Just look at the daily news and you're apt to find a nut who abducted someone in the most unusual, mostly unassuming places.

They are not going to do it in the middle of a busy side walk.

We had a case here many years ago right on the CT/MA boarder, in a very *sleepy* town.

A young girl walked down a short country road to see a neighbors puppies, only to never be seen again, until they found her body. :no:

Again, this was a very small town, girl was only traveling down a country road and whamo, some whack job WAS waiting.

It does make you wonder - Are there that many nuts out there? What was the chance he would stumble across this poor little girl? Are they out there waiting? :confused:

matryoshka
Feb. 24, 2010, 02:12 PM
The statistics that look like just numbers are made up of real people. I don't intend to be a number, and I don't want my kids ending up that way, either.

Doesn't mean you have to be paranoid, but it makes sense to know how to be careful.

And, "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean you aren't being followed." ;)

suto
Feb. 24, 2010, 03:20 PM
Lots of state forests have logging roads and some have regular dirt roadways. A car can outrun a horse. I came across two seedy looking mushroom hunters who followed me in their car in a location where I couldn't go offroad without going over a cliff. They shouted at me , passed me, then turned around and started coming straight toward me. I opened my coat and placed my hand on my firearm--they backed up until they could turn around and leave. No, it wasn't in the projects of Detroit.

Riding alone, while serene and calmning, is a risky endeavour. Being miles in the deep woods alone can create situations ( horse goes lame, shys, throws you) where it is safer to have a buddy.

Just saying...

pAin't_Misbehavin'
Feb. 24, 2010, 03:22 PM
Just look at the daily news and you're apt to find a nut who abducted someone in the most unusual, mostly unassuming places.

They are not going to do it in the middle of a busy side walk.


I have to disagree. Our most celebrated local murder of late involved a 44 year old mother of two who was carjacked from the busy parking lot at Wal-Mart at 4:00 in the afternoon.:(

Like you, I'd think the chances of a predator hiding in a remote place are slim, because there's just not that much "prey" in remote places. A predator might be there a long time before anyone happened by.

I think the media does a fair job of fear-mongering. Not saying that occasionally bad things don't happen, but I believe our perception of the frequency with which bad things happen is exaggerated by our having nationwide (and sometimes, worldwide) acess to information about such occurrences.

I also think women are encouraged to be fearful by some elements in our society. They can't bind our feet anymore, so they have to find some way to restrict our movements.

Really, I think just being aware of one's surroundings, and not being afraid to cause a bit of a scene in front of strangers, is one's best defense.

For example, the last time I left that same Wal-Mart there were two guys parked on the driver's side of my truck in a panel van. Instead of putting myself in a blind spot between my truck and their van, I kept my eye on them while I walked a wide berth around the two vehicles and got in my truck from the passenger side. Yeah, I got more than a few odd looks - from the guys and from passers-by. But drawing attention was exactly what I hoped to do.:) If either of those guys had made the first move towards me, I'd have screamed bloody murder so loud they'd have heard me across the highway. And probably given them heart failure, since it's more than likely they were just a couple of painters hanging out in a parking lot:lol: But one never knows.:no:

saddleup
Feb. 24, 2010, 03:38 PM
Suto, your story just made my blood run cold.

Yikes.

Arcadien
Feb. 24, 2010, 04:42 PM
I don't think it's being paranoid to consider the possibility of an attacker in the woods, I think it's being smart.

I think everyone has to think about it and make their own decisions about what weapons they'd feel comfortable using against another human being. Everyone will feel a bit differently about this.

But the one thing everyone should do, is *think* about it, ahead of time! This way you will have a chance of reacting in time, instead of being paralyzed by indecision and fear. A lot of this is gone over in the book already mentioned "The Gift of Fear" and another I recommend "Attack Proof".

It seems every decade or so a body is found in the woods where I ride - the Wharton State Forest covers a good chunk of southern NJ and what is lovely and peaceful nature to us seems occasionally a good place to dump a body to another.

katarine
Feb. 24, 2010, 04:55 PM
Meh- we wear protection in bear country.
Mr Kat wears a leatherman and mean lookin' knife on trail rides.

I don't worry about the boogy man. I do worry some about rolling meth labs, labs in the woods, etc. I do ride with a great little dog with a good way of staying close, and I watch her for clues to things she thinks aren't right.

Minerva Louise
Feb. 24, 2010, 05:06 PM
Where the heck are you rideing that you think you need a gun???

For the first thing, you're on a horse... who 'can't' you outrun?? .

Mr. Yamaha, Mr. Suzuki, Mr. Polaris, Mr. Honda - they can ALL outrun and outlast the fastest horse.


Second what are the odds a 'nut bar' is gonna choose to sit in wait in a forest? Wouldn't a walker be an easier victim?.

If someone figures out that a lone woman on a horse happens by a certain piece of trail every wednesday at 1:45 pm, they don't have to do much waiting. Hunters do much more waiting in very cold deerstands around here, and they have no definite knowlege that a deer will or will not wander by. You have to think about this with the mentality of someone that is actually "hunting" YOU.


Third, the odds of a 'wild' animal attacking are slim to none, barring a rabid one. I have many four legged creatures cross my path and they barely take a sideways glance.
.

In all my trailriding experiences, never have been attacked by a wild animal. Packs of dogs have been problems on many occasions.

Huntertwo
Feb. 24, 2010, 08:22 PM
Lots of state forests have logging roads and some have regular dirt roadways. A car can outrun a horse.

Just saying...

Exactly - These new trails are mostly dirt roads. Great to ride on. Nice and wide, no brush hitting you in the face, hardly any rocks.

Yet, as you pointed out, there is the down side that a car can easily travel on them also.

Appsolute
Feb. 25, 2010, 06:01 PM
Exactly - These new trails are mostly dirt roads. Great to ride on. Nice and wide, no brush hitting you in the face, hardly any rocks.

Yet, as you pointed out, there is the down side that a car can easily travel on them also.

Yes, but a horse can go where no car can. Are these woods? Can't you just turn off into the woods and high tail it?

I don't think the taser would help you against a car any way, I guess if you were carrying a gun you could shoot at it... but I would want to be damn certain a person was a real threat before shooting them!

JollyBadger
Feb. 26, 2010, 11:34 AM
Yes, but a horse can go where no car can. Are these woods? Can't you just turn off into the woods and high tail it?

I don't think the taser would help you against a car any way, I guess if you were carrying a gun you could shoot at it... but I would want to be damn certain a person was a real threat before shooting them!

Very true that a car generally won't be able to pursue a horse in deeper/thicker woods. However, that's not always an option.

My "home" park used to be farmland, and although the trails are clear of fencing there are still old fence posts and wire scattered around. Not to mention that we have a major problem with honeysuckle bush invasion. Getting through the woods off-trail would be difficult for someone walking on foot - impossible on horseback, especially if you were trying to get away from someone.

There's a place a couple of hours away from me called Shawnee State Park (part of Wayne National Forest) with trails similar to what was described. Basically, they're dirt roads used for park maintenance, access to the fire tower, etc. Parts of the trail are right at the top of the hill/ridge, with a steep drop down into the woods that would be very difficult to get down without getting horse or rider injured.:no:

lisae
Feb. 26, 2010, 01:12 PM
I tend to ride with my senses 'wide open' anyways. If there's a deer ready to jump out and spook the horse, I want to try and be aware of it or any other event, first.

30 years ago there was a murder on our farm near the local village. It was then my husband's family dairy farm, and a teenager from town had secured permission to hunt woodchucks. Another citizen, an artist in her 50's (my age now...) had permission to walk on the land, doing her sketches. :no: One day, she had to answer the call of nature and as she emerged from the hedgerow pulling up her pants, the young hunter was walking towards her down the lane. Something bad clicked in him; he shot her in the chest.
He did many years of prison time for this act.

So that is the land I now ride, it's only 130 acres but it's out of sight and sound of the road. I try and stay alert as mentioned, and ready to calmly canter away if I see anyone. (Which I haven't, BTW).

Marci
Feb. 28, 2010, 02:07 AM
I ride alone all the time too. I listen to my gut.
But you know for a weapon I bet a cattle prod would certainly keep the weirdos at bay. At least if they got out of the cars or off the motorcycles. And they shouldn't spook the horses. Ant they do pack a wallop-enough to make them think of looking for easier prey.

Painted Horse
Mar. 1, 2010, 09:29 AM
I'm a guy, so I have a different perspective than most of the ladies. When I pack in, I travel light, Don't always have room for extra clean cloths or for a razor to shave with. I hope if you run into me in the back country. After 2-3 days of back country camping, with a unshaven face, dirty cloths from tending a camp fire and taking care of horses, that you don't shoot me. I'm not a threat because I look a little rugged.

Now that said, I do carry a gun on a lot of my rides. My neighbor is a FBI agent and I get lots of updates on all the marajuana fields they are finding in the mountains each summer. Usually run by illegal aliens who don't want to get caught, They don't have a lot of morals about how not to get caught. They have set up elaborate watering systems to grow marajuana in the national forest and have a serious investment of time and effort in their mountain farms. Some of you have mentioned meth labs, Same problem although around here, most of those are confined to homes, motel rooms and RV's. Meth cookers don't seem to want to pack a kitchen back into a remote area where there is no power. These people don't want to get caught and they hate somebody to wander into their operation. And while I've never persoanlly run into either of these, and hope I don't, it has become a distinct possiblity that I could. I'm also a hunter, So all fall, I pack rifles for hunting on my horses. So I am comfortable with guns and being around them. So it's not a big deal for me to bring one along.

I can tell you that in early summer one year, I was out for a mid week ride, As I was coming through the copse of trees, I could hear some women voices coming down the trail towards me. Riding by myself I was just being quite and enjoying the clip-clop of my horse. Round the corner comes two ladies, All naked from the waist up. It was a nice warm day and they had decided to sun tan some areas that often don't get sunlight. I mean just what does a person do. I pulled off the side of the trail and let them pass. I didn't avert my eyes. I figured if they were foolish enough to be dressed that way, I could make them squirm a little by staring. I'm grateful they didn't pull out a stun gun and zap me.

My opinion is that it's a big world out there. There are some bad people, But they are the minority. And sometimes Bad things happen to good people. Lifes is not fair. It may happen on a horse trail, It may happen with a shooter in a mall or on a college campus. But the odds are that the bad things that happen in life, will be more common, such as somebody who took an extra drink and ran into you, or that was texting while driving or some other stupid accident. Not that a predator laid in wait for you. We all take precautions. We wear seat belts in our cars in case of accidents. We wear helment when we ride horses, ATVs, Mountain bikes, heck even when we go skiing nowdays. We don't hang out on the bad side of town. We try to be smart about approaching strangers, whether it be on a horse trail or hanging out at a bus stop. My advice, is that IF you ride in an area where that could be a risk, take what ever precautions you feel are prudent.

Huntertwo
Mar. 1, 2010, 01:02 PM
Good post...:yes:

I do have to ask though - were these topless woman on horseback????;)

JollyBadger
Mar. 1, 2010, 02:15 PM
LOL. . .I startled a group of women who decided to go topless (or at least bra only) while riding in our local park. Not exactly the best place to do that kind of thing. . .lots of thorn bushes, not to mention ticks, biting flies, mosquitos. I'll take my chances being a little hot, sweaty and clothed.:cool:

A couple of years ago I ran into a young couple wandering around the creek bed, wearing very few clothes. Emphasis on very.

They were friendly and all. . .but it was just weird. No idea where they came from, since it was a good distance from any of the trailheads or camping areas. I told the BO about it and they have since been dubbed "Adam and Eve."

matryoshka
Mar. 1, 2010, 03:48 PM
I think I'd be leery of somebody who was overly clean more so than somebody with a bit of stubble. ;)

It's in the walk, the approach, the body language, not in the get up. Seriously.

saddleup
Mar. 1, 2010, 04:03 PM
I was riding with a friend in a local park, and came upon a man and a woman who were standing next to each other, holding their horses, but putting out this totally weird vibe. Didn't make eye contact with us, working too hard to look casual. We said hello, no response, and rode on.

About 15 minutes later we heard a blood curdling scream coming from behind and now below us. We turned and loped back toward the sound, and saw a flash of black going up the hill ahead of us. Several other riders were coming toward us at the same time, all responding to the screams.

We found one of the horses, the other (a black) was gone. No sign of the people.

I found out later it was a "domestic dispute". I never heard particulars, but it opened up all sorts of conversations about what to do in a situation like that. What if we rode up and there was a violent fight going on, or a murder, or???? We later thought maybe we shouldn't have been so quick to gallop to the sound, especially without anything but a cell phone.

Painted Horse
Mar. 1, 2010, 05:36 PM
Huntertwo, Yes they were on horses. But were keeping them to quarter horse slow walk. I suspect their lack of support influenced there decision to just continue walking by vs trotting out of sight quickly.

I don't think they thought anybody else would be in the area mid day/mid week. And a lot of this area, is pretty wide open where you can see others come way off in the distance. They just happened to be in one ofthe few places of restricted visability. Of course at that point, what do you do, You are already caught naked. They can be little girls and squeel or brazen hussies and parade by proud. These two were not about to stop and talk, but they also were not about to let me think they were embarassed.

Huntertwo
Mar. 1, 2010, 07:37 PM
Huntertwo, Yes they were on horses. But were keeping them to quarter horse slow walk. I suspect their lack of support influenced there decision to just continue walking by vs trotting out of sight quickly.



Damn, too bad for you they weren't doing a posting trot...;):eek: lol

SonnysMom
Mar. 2, 2010, 10:38 AM
Depending on how large their tracts of land were posting trot may not be that sexy.
Now a western jog that creates a little jiggle rather than the possibility of a black eye I could see being sexy.

But I could be making a wrong assumption on what a man might find sexy in a topless woman.

Minerva Louise
Mar. 3, 2010, 10:20 AM
Welllll back to the original topic.

All I have to say is that the poor girl in California was apparently attacked and murdered while on a trail in a park.

Granted she was not on horseback.

But for the people who have posted that it is unlikely to meet a human predator in a park setting, well, there you go. The news reports said he basically sat in the park and waited for a victim to go by. As I mentioned that someone who was "hunting" YOU would do, earlier in this thread...

LookinSouth
Mar. 3, 2010, 11:33 AM
If someone start to get too close, I like to use the ,"careful, he bites/kicks" excuse. It tends to keep otherwise overly friendly people at a safe distance, especially when you're on a really big horse.


Exactly. For my 16.2 gelding the threat is charging rather than bite/kick and he WILL charge person, dog or llama etc...., if he feels threatened.

When I had him at home I did a great deal of riding in the woods alone. We weren't deep in the backcountry (we're in CT, no such thing) but we rode in a secluded 700 acre state forest that a creepo could go after us and no one would hear/know about it. The only reason I had the gall to ride alone out there was because I felt very safe on my bigger horse that tends to be very bold and aggressive in sketchy situations rather than intimidated.
I never ran into any shady characters there but I've run into others twice while riding with a friends.
Just last week I was riding on some popular multi use trails, was about to cross a bridge where 2 men were standing and drinking beer. Right from the get go my horse started acting fishy and I could tell he was not happy about these men standing on the bridge. I could feel that hind end coil up and his attention focus on what they were doing. Usually passing people or bicycles is a non-issue but these men were giving him a weird vibe.
As we got closer the men were ooohing and ahhing, asking if they could "pet the horses". I told them, "now wouldn't be a good time and if you dont' mind can you step off the bridge because my horse feels threatened and may attack if you get too close". They walked off that bridge faster than flies onto horse poop. I thanked them, my horse relaxed and we continued on. This was the 2nd time he's acted chargey when approaching a group of men that were a little close for comfort. And it's the 2nd time the men got out of the way mighty fast when warned:winkgrin:

Huntertwo
Mar. 3, 2010, 01:53 PM
Welllll back to the original topic.

All I have to say is that the poor girl in California was apparently attacked and murdered while on a trail in a park.

Granted she was not on horseback.

But for the people who have posted that it is unlikely to meet a human predator in a park setting, well, there you go. The news reports said he basically sat in the park and waited for a victim to go by. As I mentioned that someone who was "hunting" YOU would do, earlier in this thread...

I've been following that story...How sad for that poor girl and her parents.:cry:

This was a popular park for hikers and joggers, so apparently even with other people presumably around, she couldn't even get off a scream.

And the SOB sexually assaulted another girl years earlier. :no:
Isn't that always the case.....

wendy
Mar. 4, 2010, 04:40 PM
Just look at the daily news and you're apt to find a nut who abducted someone in the most unusual, mostly unassuming places.


yeah, but there's a reason why they are on the news: because they are NEWS, namely, strange, unusual events unlikely to happen. Also the news are very biased- if you based your view of what dangers lurked out there on what you hear on the news, you are living in la-la land preparing yourself against all of the most unlikely dangers and ignoring the more likely dangers.

Stranger attacks on women are incredibly rare- most murders and rapes of women are committed by spouses/boyfriends/dates/ family members.
When you are out there alone on your horse, the biggest danger you are in is from your horse. The other "Big" dangers: your drive to and from the barn; the junk food you grabbed at the drivethru on your way home; and your spouse after you get home.

Painted Horse
Mar. 4, 2010, 09:26 PM
VERY VERY True

Guilherme
Mar. 4, 2010, 10:25 PM
yeah, but there's a reason why they are on the news: because they are NEWS, namely, strange, unusual events unlikely to happen. Also the news are very biased- if you based your view of what dangers lurked out there on what you hear on the news, you are living in la-la land preparing yourself against all of the most unlikely dangers and ignoring the more likely dangers.

Stranger attacks on women are incredibly rare- most murders and rapes of women are committed by spouses/boyfriends/dates/ family members.
When you are out there alone on your horse, the biggest danger you are in is from your horse. The other "Big" dangers: your drive to and from the barn; the junk food you grabbed at the drivethru on your way home; and your spouse after you get home.

This is all quite true. But it still does happen. Taking a precaution is not unreasonable.

G.

AlfalfaGirl
Mar. 4, 2010, 10:37 PM
I am a friendly person but I am a cautious person just the same. I don't ride alone except at the barn! LOL I do have a number of people I can ride with at any given time generally but if I was out riding with just another woman I would give strangers a wide berth.

Hubby has a license to have a hand gun and two of my cake girl friends do. I went to Austin with Sister Betty Betty (my good cake buddy) for a cake show and met my other friend Jacque. My hubby was warning me to be careful and I said "Betty and Jacque are both packing heat. We will be fine!" LOL I don't know of any of my friends carrying guns when we ride though. We generally ride in a good sized group too.

I would be very cautious if I was along and someone appeared - and I wouldn't care if it was an old granny...sometimes old granny's can be just as evil - like the looney that kidnapped the little Smart girl in Utah. UGH. Everyone be safe and ride a big horse while your at it!

LarkspurCO
Mar. 4, 2010, 10:41 PM
For those who think that wild animals don't attack people, this was in the city:

Pregnant Woman Hit By Car While Running From A Bear
http://www.gazette.com/articles/woman-52327-bear-department.html

Mountain lion attacks are not uncommon, and they do like to go after horses.

Oh, wait. How about packing a chain saw?

http://www.pinedaleonline.com/news/2009/07/Coloradomanrepelsatt.htm

Huntertwo
Mar. 5, 2010, 06:23 AM
Everyone be safe and ride a big horse while your at it!

I guess I'm screwed... My POA is 13.1 hands. ;)

Although, DH would probably be happy.

MistyBlue
Mar. 5, 2010, 08:34 AM
H2...try my method of safety:
Be the scariest damned thing out there in the woods. :winkgrin: :lol:
Mr Blue worries that I might get tossed off property. (well, he worries about that on property too) Mr Blue worries about everything. All the time.

The one thing he doesn't worry about: Some creep grabbing me. He says he doubts there's anyone meaner or scarier than me out there.

I never know whether to be insulted or flattered, LMAO! :D :confused:

Huntertwo
Mar. 5, 2010, 02:23 PM
H2...try my method of safety:
Be the scariest damned thing out there in the woods. :winkgrin: :lol:
Mr Blue worries that I might get tossed off property. (well, he worries about that on property too) Mr Blue worries about everything. All the time.

The one thing he doesn't worry about: Some creep grabbing me. He says he doubts there's anyone meaner or scarier than me out there.

I never know whether to be insulted or flattered, LMAO! :D :confused:

Hmmm, I wouldn't know how to take that..:confused: So, that is how you got your double oven...interesting...lol ;)

I am pretty scary looking in the morning. Would that count? :lol:

MoseyAlong
Mar. 6, 2010, 01:42 AM
yeah, but there's a reason why they are on the news: because they are NEWS, namely, strange, unusual events unlikely to happen. Also the news are very biased- if you based your view of what dangers lurked out there on what you hear on the news, you are living in la-la land preparing yourself against all of the most unlikely dangers and ignoring the more likely dangers.

Stranger attacks on women are incredibly rare- most murders and rapes of women are committed by spouses/boyfriends/dates/ family members.
When you are out there alone on your horse, the biggest danger you are in is from your horse. The other "Big" dangers: your drive to and from the barn; the junk food you grabbed at the drivethru on your way home; and your spouse after you get home.

I will take the last one first: driving to and from the ride is dangerous.
Travel statistics are usually expressed as a number per passenger
mile. Otherwise, you could not rationally compare auto travel to air
travel. For leisure activities, incidents per unit time (hours), might be
useful.
Just using the number of accidents each year is very misleading.
So, trailering to a trail-head may be more dangerous or it may not.
Why not reduce risk, where we do have control?

Intuitively, and from experience, we know that icy roads present
heightened risk, so we stay home or reduce our travel distance.
It would make sense for riders (esp women), to be very alert,
when there is a un-identified movement in the woods or guys
hanging-out on the trail, i.e. heightened risk.

News sources are not always biased toward over-reporting.
Sometimes they vastly under-report.

They have under-reported rape stories in hyphenated American
neighborhoods; I know this first hand.
Likewise, governments sometimes withhold info on very important
dangers. The movie Jaws, and the play Enemy of the People, do
dramatize government withholding info, because full disclosure
is "bad for business".

Government cover-up does happen in the real world. A current scandal in the
city of Denver Colorado, involves the withholding info of the pattern of
racial attacks in downtown. Some of the perps confessed, in early
fall 2009, and then were released; we don't know why, yet.
In November some of the same perps trailed a college student,
southward to the suburban city of Centennial, and they murdered him.

I do not want you guys and gals to be paranoid, but why not be
prepared.

AlfalfaGirl
Mar. 11, 2010, 07:45 AM
I guess I'm screwed... My POA is 13.1 hands. ;)

Although, DH would probably be happy.


Yeah, but how wide is the POA?!!!:winkgrin: My 15.3 boy is a sissy...hubby's 14.3 almost 15 hand boy thinks he is 10 foot tall and bullet proof. LOL He reminds me of the neighborhood show off!

suz
Mar. 13, 2010, 03:36 PM
I carry this

http://www.coldsteel.com/sjambok.html

that looks like an excellent tool--can you tell us more about your use of it?
i always carry a dressage whips for dogs, i like the idea of more firepower this will give me.
but i'm trying to decide which size i want. dh thinks i should get the longer one, but longer than a dressage whip may be too unwieldy to carry. which size do you use? and is the weight a factor at all?
thanks,suse.

CoopsZippo
Mar. 13, 2010, 03:51 PM
that looks like an excellent tool--can you tell us more about your use of it?
i always carry a dressage whips for dogs, i like the idea of more firepower this will give me.
but i'm trying to decide which size i want. dh thinks i should get the longer one, but longer than a dressage whip may be too unwieldy to carry. which size do you use? and is the weight a factor at all?
thanks,suse.

My goal when I use it is to break bone. I am not kidding.

I ride with a 42" one the 54" is too long.

My husband is a master swordsman and has helped me perfect my backhanded movements.

You do have to get your horse used to it whipping past his head.

suz
Mar. 13, 2010, 04:06 PM
good to know, thanks.

matryoshka
Mar. 13, 2010, 04:10 PM
I just have to add what Scot Hansen said about using whips on attackers. You can make your own choices, but it is food for thought.

Whatever you hold in your hand, you tend to hang onto. So suppose you go to hit, it goes awry, or he's prepared for the move, and the attacker grabs it. He now has a handle to drag you out of the saddle, because we tend to hang onto things we own. That split second it takes you to think about letting go may be too late.

He also recommends carrying something that can be used for reins in case an attacker cuts them. I used to do this, then got lax.

Just saying.

CoopsZippo
Mar. 13, 2010, 05:01 PM
You aint grabbing nothing if I break your shoulder. Plus I will catch you on a back stroke is I miss. Hubby has trained me too well. If you grab my weapon I will use you against yourself. Aikido would be my suggestion for those who would like to know.

That said a sjambok will break bones.

It is not rigid. It has flex. They will be blinded with pain if hit with it if all else fails.

It stops my husband dead in his tracks and he is a trained martial artist who has been conditioned to work through pain.

matryoshka
Mar. 13, 2010, 05:45 PM
I'm not questioning your skill, but exactly when do you break my shoulder? When I'm walking by, or after I've made an aggressive move? We can't go around whacking people, breaking bones without some sort of provocation. At what point do you take a swing at somebody?

I'm sure you've practiced your art from horseback and are quite good, but the rest of us are not likely to have much, if any, training in this. I know I don't, and the tool that is deadly in your hands could become a weapon of opportunity for somebody who attacks me if I tried the same thing.

Personally I think if you have such a weapon and are trained to use it, you are going to exude a confidence that will deter an attacker. You'd never have to use it. However, just buying a piece of equipment that can break bones doesn't mean one knows how to use it.

So if you purchase such a weapon, then it is best to enroll in a class to learn how to use it.

suz
Mar. 13, 2010, 06:44 PM
another good point----i have a riding buddy who is a brown belt, i'll give her a call and see if she can give me some recomendations on how to get trained to use the thing.

candandy
Mar. 14, 2010, 12:21 PM
A newbie to the Site, but an oldie(60 y/o) to trail riding. I have ridden the country roads surrounding our 10 acres by myself, probably if I had kept a log I could honestly say my QH mare and I have covered a 100 miles or so of our back roads. I never once had a fear of going out alone and never carried any firearm of any sort of self-protection device. Even when I trailered to Equestrian Trails maintained by the Conservation Department or public trails it never once occurred to me to carry a weapon. Although when riding on public lands I had several companions riding with me.

Guilherme
Mar. 14, 2010, 01:13 PM
Using a weapon on horseback is very different from using one on the ground. Both horse and rider have to be accustomed to and skilled in the use of the weapon. If this is not the case then using the weapon can lead to a much worse result than not using it.

I've got no real experience in ground based martial arts, but I wonder just how effective most grappling or striking techniques will be when employed from horseback. Again, the horse must be accustomed to the rider's movements and your range is limited to the effective reach of arm or leg.

If a person wants to carry a weapon then it's incumbent upon them to learn to use it correctly from the perspective of both horse and rider. And to never forget that the horse, itself, is a 1000 pound force that can be used against an assailant.

G.

Huntertwo
Mar. 14, 2010, 02:11 PM
Using a weapon on horseback is very different from using one on the ground. Both horse and rider have to be accustomed to and skilled in the use of the weapon. If this is not the case then using the weapon can lead to a much worse result than not using it.

I've got no real experience in ground based martial arts, but I wonder just how effective most grappling or striking techniques will be when employed from horseback. Again, the horse must be accustomed to the rider's movements and your range is limited to the effective reach of arm or leg.

If a person wants to carry a weapon then it's incumbent upon them to learn to use it correctly from the perspective of both horse and rider. And to never forget that the horse, itself, is a 1000 pound force that can be used against an assailant.

G.


Agree...
I bet this device could give a major ass whooping :eek:http://www.coldsteel.com/sjambok.html
I just wouldn't know the most effective way to use it without training on horseback.

No martial arts background either...

Guilherme
Mar. 14, 2010, 03:46 PM
Agree...
I bet this device could give a major ass whooping :eek:http://www.coldsteel.com/sjambok.html
I just wouldn't know the most effective way to use it without training on horseback.

No martial arts background either...

Yeah, that sjambok would put a "smackdown" on somebody if it were properly handled.

I'm comfortable with a pistol (as a result of doing some Cowboy Mounted Shooting and the Mounted Pistol Course at the Nataional Cavalry Competitions). But only with one horse as she's the only one that's well gun broke. My wife's horse will do, but is not as steady. We both need more work. ;)

I've also done the Mounted Saber Course. It's much more difficult. Having 4 pounds out on the end of your arm can be "destabilizing." Also, the style used with the M1913 Patton Saber was not "slash" but "stab," using the momentum of the horse to give power to the thrust. Patton's advice (paraphrasing Napoleon): Le pointe, le pointe, toujours le pointe." The power of a four pound, 30" blade being propelled by a 1000 pounds moving at 20-25 mph is impressive.

But I'm not very good with the saber and don't practice as much as I should. It's also a marginal close quarter weapon because of it's design as a "stabbing" blade. Of course if your opponent has a 6" hunting knife and you have a 30" saber I'd say you've got the edge even with limited experience. :)

On the other hand if the miscreant has a firearm, then you've got the "taking a knife to a gunfight" problem.

IMO the risks of an adverse encounter in a rural forest (or other remote area) are much lower than the risks found in an urban or suburban park, forest preserve, nature preserve, etc. Hunters go where the game is. The human predator will find many more targets near civilization than out in the boonies. This does not mean that there are no risks in the boonies, only that they will be different risks.

Of course the rules for weapons are much stricter as you approach "civilization." They tend to disarm the victim while doing nothing to inhibit the predator. That to me is the world stood on its head, but that's how Sarah Brady and her ilk think. Or don't think.

G.

SmokenMirrors
Mar. 15, 2010, 08:36 PM
*double posted..sorry*

SmokenMirrors
Mar. 15, 2010, 08:37 PM
I ride a lot in the back woods of VA and I don't always have someone who can go with me or ride for as long as I wish to go out. My QH gelding is very alert and has caught site of things well before I have, several years ago he alerted to a hunter, or so I assume he was a hunter, sneaking in the bushes trying not to be seen. I stepped up my pace while my buddy would glance back and hit the road at a lope.

Some of the trails I go on are way in the back woods, away from anyone who would hear me holler or scream. My husband was a sharp shooter and won many awards for his shooting abilities both as a teenager and in the Army so I asked him to teach me to shoot. I do practice, I do well, and I am proficient in loading and unloading.

When out riding I do carry a .9mm Glock and when I have had someone approach me, just the slight movement of my jacket or sweatshirt away from it and the butt shows, they back off quickly. Many woman don't carry a Glock nor a weapon that is large, they prefer smaller, more compact. I don't tell anyone I have one, I usually carry concealed, and have my concealed weapons permit and my drivers license with me. Most of the time those I ride with don't even realize I am carrying and that is how I prefer it to be.

One person said that they carry a knife. I hope you know how to use it really well as many times someone bigger and faster than us can quickly disarm us, then what will you do? And you have to get pretty close to someone when you use a knife, with a weapon, I do not. Just something to think about.

Together, my QH and I are a team and I watch around us, where his ears swivel as well as the sounds and noises too. I am alert to my surroundings and hopefully will see or know that someone or something is around before I have to take action against it.

Guilherme
Mar. 15, 2010, 09:52 PM
If a person is highly skilled then they can carry concealed. If not they're probably better off to "open carry." It's not at all difficult to get a pistol entangled in clothing if you've got to be quick, you're scared, the horse is a any kind of "fractious," etc.

I find that a simple cross draw holster carried close to the center line of the body works very well. So does an externally carried shoulder holster. For a "strong side" draw I use a "long drop" military holster and an M1911 Colt. http://www.whatpriceglory.com/pic/USMCHolster.jpg is an example. Add a web belt and magazine pouch and you're in business. You can even add a pistol lanyard if you wish. :cool:

G.

Painted Horse
Mar. 16, 2010, 08:10 AM
Just dress in Cowboy Action Shooter attire and the guns fit nicely into your outfit.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p259/Painted-Horse/2009/RedRock/Redrock7.jpg

CosMonster
Mar. 16, 2010, 11:51 AM
I open carry when I'm riding in the mountains, although it's more for dangerous animals or a catastrophic injury to my horse where no vehicle can get to us. Honestly, I'm just not afraid of human predators when I'm out there.

I do take precautions when I see someone on the trail. I don't like people approaching me anyway, because I'm often on a hot horse who tends to get antsy when we stand still for too long, or on a young one who does bite if you hold your hand out to him. So I never offer to stop, and if they ask to pet my horse, I tell them he bites. If someone were to insist after that I'd get the heck out of there--usually the response is that they back up another few steps. :lol: Even when I'm on one of my quieter horses, I still keep that habit because people just don't need to pet my horses, and it is a risk.

I try to be aware of my surroundings all the time, which is just a good habit and not just for avoiding dangerous people. I also usually have my 3 dogs (and sometimes another 2 or 3 of the neighbor's that decide to join us :lol:) with me when I ride out from my house, and they're very well behaved (well, mine are), but another deterrent. We live in an area where we're legally able to have off-leash dogs, though, and I realize most people aren't. Also, they are well trained and have excellent recall, otherwise I don't think it's very safe.

Back to the gun, I do think it's really important to both be very proficient (I don't think a couple of hours initially and then half an hour a month on the range is enough, personally), and to have a gun broke horse. If you do need to fire your gun and your horse panics and dumps you, well, you're probably in a worse situation than if you had just galloped out of there unless you managed to kill whatever it was that you shot at. I wouldn't count on my ability to stay on in a situation like that. My young horse isn't completely reliable yet and so I don't carry when I ride him.

Really, though, I do a ton of trail riding and I've only once been in a situation where I even thought about pulling a weapon, and that was when we were threatened by a pack of coydogs. I've run into some suspicious people but I just kept my distance. I did once have a frightening experience at a trail head while I was saddling my horse at the trailer, and since then I trailer with the horse tacked up when I'm riding alone so that I can just unload, throw on the bridle and get going. I think that's a much more dangerous situation than actually riding, because you're on the ground and you're probably paying more attention to saddling up than to your surroundings.