Holsteiners - More jumpers than dressage or not?

[madoy]

Just wondering what the general feedback is about Holsteiners being not only jumpers (as seems to be the consensus of a group of people I was recently talking to) but also FEI level dressage horses. What stallions are out there that are currently competing successfully?
Thanks in advance!

[dray]

LeSanto did both.

[ne1]

more jumpers. exponentially more than any other book or breed. at the last olympics it was something around 30% of the horses were registered holsteiners. at the previous (athens) a full 50% were either registered or sired by registered, approved holsteiner sires. but they work well at all levels, including amateurs, and see the post i made earlier today regarding hunter production as well. yesterday in thermal the 10k derby was won by an approved ahha stallion.

and all that from a book that puts less than 7000 foals on the ground a year; hence 'exponential'.

there are some good dressage horses too, and some dressage breeding programs will look to holstein when wanting to improve upon their canter.

[Molly Malone]

I watched Accordelli at the Birkhof stallion parade on friday. I was completely blown away by his movement. I'm not a Holsteiner person, but even I know that Accord I x Cor de LaBreyere x Landgraf I (I'm going from memory, so excuse me if I have spelled those wrong) is a jumping pedigree. And jump he could.... but he was a top class mover.

[fish]

I believe the GP at Devon was recently won by a Holsteiner (name begins with C- think he's a stallion, but not 100% sure and don't want to look it up). Also, IMO the greatest dressage horse of all time, Corlandus, was a Holsteiner (Corde x Landgraf mare). Personally, I made my final decision on the line I wanted to breed my mare to (Cassini I) after watching the incredible FEI Holsteiner dressage mare, Claire, by Cassini I/Apple King xx mare, compete at the CDI in Raleigh.

IMO, Holsteiners have as much talent for dressage (or hunters or driving) as any other group out there, but mostly pursue jumping careers because, generally speaking, it makes most economic sense-- especially for horses well known for talent over fences. Holstein wants horses that move and ride well-- what sets them apart is their insistence on jump, too. I.e., unlike other registries, they don't have (or want) "dressage" or "driving" lines, and want ALL their horses to be known for jump-- which they are ;)

[RyTimMick]

Jumper for sure but their are always a couple that have the talent. Here is one that was just exported back to Europe.

Carnaby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHgkN4Lewfs

Sandro has obviously contributed to the dressage world.

Carpaccio has introduced quite a bit of good movers. This was seen in true form with Cascari in Neumunster. He is Cassini I/Carpaccio. Cassini I is known for his canter...not his trot. Cascari sired Doreen's last foal and is staying with the Bahlmanns for breeding. Check out his trot...Wow
http://vimeo.com/1301135


Marlon and Calypso II blood always seem to bring in some good movement.
This is seen in Coriander by Coriolan. Many suggest this is where the Calido's get their movement.

We must not forget Hill Top's Riverman and of course Cabaret


But yeah....jumpers.

Tim

[ne1]

.......But yeah....jumpers.

Tim


:lol: :lol: :lol:

[madoy]

Very interesting! Thanks for the input. My current FEI dressage horse is Holstein/dutch, he's got a super canter but had to learn how to trot (training does wonders, lol) and I recently acquired a Le Santo/Rantares mare to breed to him. The mare has a very good trot, so I am hoping the cross evens out but I would be happy with a carbon copy of either of them.
My question came because of how many people assumed I was breeding for a jumper, which is not the case, although the stallion has incredible talent in that area too, it's just not my thing so he never did much more than a bit of freejumping. Of course if that's what the resulting foal would like to do than so be it, lol!

[madoy]

HA! After taking a closer look at my horse's "Dutch" side, it ALL traces back to horses born in Holstein, then just ended up being used predominantly by KWPN. Fascinating. So I will end up breeding horses that are technically 100% Holstein blood with this cross. =)

[mbp]

There's a real estate saying - "highest and best use" that has a lot to do with commercial valuation of a property that could be used for many different purposes.

As enamored as many of us are with dressage, the sport of choice for a lot of $$ is jumping and Holsteiners are very good jumpers. Not only that, but the canter is the gait that helps make them as jumpers. So what happens is that the carriagey, less elastic, trot and the ability to jump trend towards making the Holsteiners skew to jumper (and hunter here - although not always winning the hack) professions.

The trot sells in lower level dressage, but the cante is the gait you need for an upper level dressage horse and that carriagey trot can be trained to be all you need and more. Silvano was a wonderful GP horse and his son, Prestige, is also lovely. One of my favorite dressage horses ever was Chaccomo (RIP) ( this isn't great video, but it's all I can find from a quickie google - as much as I love typey horses, I really liked him and even on this vid you can see what can be done with a Holsteiner trot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me6eASQHwlk .) Another thread going now is about Come Back II and mentions some of his offspring competing now (I'm looking at the lines there mor than the registry, but he's Cor de, Landgraf, Montevideo.

As has been mentioned, the Caretino son Carpaccio has made nice contributions and both Calypso I and II are found in the lines of some very good dressage horses. The Cicero son Churchill competed S level (jumping and dressage) and has had successful dressage offspring.

A lot of dressage riders looking for upper level horses look for some blood that will put enough jump in the canter.