Newborn significantly over in both knees

[Slewdledo]

The mare somehow pushed her out while we were on the phone with the vet (nose was coming first, both front legs turned back.)

The left front is over at the knee; the right front is so contracted that the hoof does not touch the ground when she is up. (She cannot stand due to the contraction, but is otherwise strong and healthy.)

Any words of wisdom? I've got Rejuvenaide on hand but can't start that till she's 5 days old.

[McVillesMom]

I'd recommend having the vet look at her - correction somewhat depends on where she is contracted, but can involve bandaging or splints (both of which help create laxity in the tendons), oxytetracycline IV (which also helps create laxity in the tendons - supposedly by binding calcium, but can be nephrotoxic so needs to be used with caution) and hoof trimming or augmentation.

[Fantastic]

Sorry to hear about your young one's legs, but all hope is not lost this early on. Your foal will straighten out a lot if not be totally normal in time.

Are they both legs actually contracted, or is does one have one disorder and the other has another? Or is the one knee just loose (contracted tendon) and looks over at the knee because it can't lock?

For contracted tendons, the rule of thumb is little of no turn out (like 2 weeks). The reason for no turn out is that as the legs fatique, the tendons tighten even more. The knees continue to buckle forward even more.

Options are: full leg wrap from above knee to heel. More severe cases also get IV oxitetracycline to relax the tendons.

Not exactly the same, but a neighbors calf was born in the field with both front legs super contracted. Couldn't stand to nurse at all. The farmer put them in the barn for awhile, and the cow and calf were turned out with the herd before long. The calf ended up being completely normal.

Hang in there! Things will turn out well with some assistance. What did your vet say?

[Slewdledo]

Thanks. Nobody except for me seems to be too terribly worried. She definitely won't be going outside for awhile!

The right knee does not bend at all. She can get the left under her and stay up for a second or two on three legs.

Here is a picture from last night. The right knee is locked at that angle.
http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n227/fleetpacific/2010%20foals/?action=view&current=IMG_5247.jpg

[Fantastic]

Thank you for posting the picture. If I understand correctly, the right knee is bent to full capacity? If so, then I support your concern. Have encouraged it to unfold a little, or does it seem fused? Would definately have a vet look at her and xray to see if the knee is formed normally and maybe it is just severely tight tendons?

[Slewdledo]

Yes, that leg stays in that position and when she tries to stand, it swings like a club. It is the tendons, just a question of the best way to get them to stretch. I used tetracycline on a contracted (stilted) several-month-old foal a few years ago but it didn't do much of anything.

We were just astonished last night that they both made it through the delivery with NO troubles (i've seen 4 or 5 of these front-legs-turned-back dystocias and NONE ended well for either or both the mare and foal) that we just focused on working with what we had and saving the "what do we do about this?" for later. I work with these horses but don't own them, so the ultimate decisions aren't mine, but suggestions, ideas, and input are much appreciated and will be passed on.

[MagicRoseFarm]

Slew You have a PM to call me.. I have WAY
Y too much experience with this.. from a pony that was 90 degree contracted..in both fronts..
and I can help You ALOT

[Cartier]

My advice, talk to Wendy or anyone who has actually had experience and success, ASAP. Act!!! Now rather than later.

In 2005 we had a foal that was born contracted in one tendon… this is our experience, warts and all. First you should known that we live in Southern Pines, NC, which is a great equestrian area, but there are really very few breeders (compared with Maryland and PA) , so vets here don’t have much experience with foals. Everyone had advice, about trimming, toe extensions, splints and braces. Many were afraid of Oxytetracycline. We spoke with Dynasplints and Dr. Stevens at Blueridge. Whatever they were suggesting would have cost a fortune and taken weeks. Our then “regular” vet Dr. Woods was afraid of the Oxytetracycline, he finally agreed to do the therapy, but we discovered after the fact that he only gave half the recommended dose, which in 12 hrs did nothing (no surprise). I decided on day two to get other opinions. I took a few good photos, sent them by email to Dr. John Hurtgen (our repro vet., who had done the frozen semen ET that produced this foal). Dr. Hurtgen sees hundreds of foals every year.. over a life time he has seen thousands. He advised Oxytetracycline, ASAP, at a very specific dose. We switched vets to Dr. Fred McCashin who administered the correct dose of Oxytetracycline and wrapped the leg, with a pipe splint. In all the colt had two treatments at the correct dose. The tendon was markedly better in 12 hours… I took the splint off after about 24 hours, so the colt could stretch the tendon. In the first few days the colt had about two hours of exercise twice a day in a half acre paddock, and the rest of the time he was in a 12 X 24 stall under fans because it was so frickin hot during the day. In a few days he was out all night. We did not restrict his exercise at all. He was perfect in a few days, he went on to be the 2005 Colt Site Champion at his OldNA Inspection at Hilltop Farm in 2005. His legs are perfect… and beautiful... we named him Lord Baltimore.

[MagicRoseFarm]

Time is the most important factor of all in this situation,, and you are already late with the Oxytet.... if the owners are not aggressive, this one sounds like it may never walk..

[Sunnydays]

I agree - get started with the oxytet right away. Hope your vet has experience mixing and administering, as it must be administered slowly. Have some well paddede splints made (again, your vet might help). Action within the 1st 48 hours is optimal.
Best wishes, Kathleen

[Iron Horse Farm]

Yes, that leg stays in that position and when she tries to stand, it swings like a club. It is the tendons, just a question of the best way to get them to stretch. I used tetracycline on a contracted (stilted) several-month-old foal a few years ago but it didn't do much of anything.

THis just seems soooo odd to me. Oxytet can be given in the first 48 hours. I can't imagine trying it on a "several-month-old":eek:

Hope your vet gets out and gives some and soon. Is she being assist fed? Someone holding her up?

Jingles!

[ise@ssl]

Big standing cotton wraps with vet wrap completely covering the cotton. On the oxytet - that's up to your Vet. I would also recommend getting this foal on Buckeye Foalaide - works wonders for babies in stress and with problems.

[NancyM]

Can only see a pic of him laying down, nothing showing the state of the knee while standing. It won't straighten AT ALL when he's standing?

I'd be looking to get the oxytet into him asap, and splinting. I've had good success with splinting one with a hind leg that was not weight baring originally, but it's easier with a hind than a front. My filly's hind foot knocked forward onto the front of the ankle rather than bending back so that the underneath of the hoof was flat on the floor when she attempted to put weight on it.

I used a well padded bandage to support the leg from collapsing, and a balsa wood splint taped onto the front of the bandage, and taped (duct tape) to the toe of her hoof, so that the joints could not collapse the wrong way when she attempted to weight bare.

Good luck, if you can get it so that it can be splinted (it's hard to say from the pic if this is going to be possible), he's got a chance.

[PixelGraphixDesign]

I don't have any advice, but I do want to wish you luck with getting the foal "right". It's so hard to see the little ones with problems. :cry:

[tuckawayfarm]

I hope that this foal has had vet care by now. We had a big colt a few years ago that was too contracted at the knees to stand. He was splinted within hours of birth and bottle fed. He turned out perfectly normal. I think the quicker this is dealt with, the better your chances are for a good outcome.

Jingles for you and the foal.

[Zulu]

Slewdledo,

We have had, interestingly, two full brothers both over at the knee, but could stand unaided. They were both injected after a week with Oxytetracycline.

The first responded very well with restricted turn out but did get turned out and within a couple of weeks was completely normal.

The next year's foal, the same thing so after a week injected with Oxytetracycline and was told not to turn out by a new vet to the practice. He did not improve so a week later had a second shot of Oxytetracycline. Against my gut feeling, I went with the vet and didnt turn. The lack of any exercise was totally counter productive as the foal just got weak and couldnt hold himself together.

This resulted in me getting a physio who worked on stretching his tendons/muscles and we, between us, decided that this foal needed some exercise. He was turned out each morning gradually building up the time more each day. The foal subsequently got stronger and the tendons loosened and hey presto, we had a normal foal :)

Both foals were Premium at their inspection with the Oldenburg :D

Next time, I know that completely removing turn out is not the way forward. I have some good before and after photos if you want to pm me!

[pintopiaffe]

I'm late to the party...

But I had a distocia a few years ago that one leg was over the head... so both legs came out on the same side of nose...

Foal was virtually windswept and I was a basket case. He quite literally could only turn one direction for the first couple of days.

And by a month old, you would have never known.

You can start Rejuvenaide as early as 3 days. Off label... but... we did with Hielo (per vet & advice) and it helped dramatically. As long as passive tranfer was fine, and foal is eating fine, 3 days isn't too soon.

I can't speak at all to the Oxytet. But the rejuvenaide/foal aide--don't be afraid to start early if IgG is good.

Straight & strong prayers sent out as well.

[blackstallion2]

She looks like a big girl in the photo. No advice, just lots of jingles!

[Slewdledo]

We ended up losing her this morning. It is really a shame because everyone (vet, owner, me) was confident that she was going to make it. The legs had improved so much. She was eating like gangbusters till 3AM this morning.

Some things just aren't meant to be. We did the best we could.

[cajunbelle]

Sorry to hear, Godspeed little one... and many hugs to you!

[Sunnydays]

So, so sorry. What a heartbreak for you all.

[hansiska]

I'm very sorry to hear this. :( They are so fragile, aren't they?

[Slewdledo]

If anyone needs a nurse mare, this one is a good candidate and the owner is willing to send her out. PM me for location.

[Signature]

Oh no, so sorry to hear this. Was really pulling for the dear one. I'm so sorry for all involved.

[blackstallion2]

That's a shame :(
Maybe you could share what was helping her legs straighten? It might help someone else this foaling season.

[JoZ]

Aw, so sorry to hear this. RIP baby girl... :(

[PixelGraphixDesign]

I'm so sorry. :cry::cry::cry: