Bare minimum foaling participation -- wwyd?

[JoZ]

I have a mare who is due to foal in April.

I KNOW what I'm about to say isn't statistically valid but I'm still going to note it. I bought her pregnant and with a foal at her side, back in 2004. The 2004 filly had no hernia. She had given birth outside.

She was sneaky and had her 2005 colt unattended in a paddock. No hernia.

2007 and 2009 colts were born in stalls with people attending -- both had umbilical hernias.

Washington is a muddy mess in April and I want her accessible and dry for me and the vet, so she will be having the 2010 baby in a stall. HOWEVER, I'd like to try to be less of a presence. I will of course watch EVERYTHING, via foalcam or from across the barn.

Here's what I think is bare minimum, please let me know if you agree.

- Check position of foal if two feet and nose are not immediately apparent

- Dip umbilical stump with Nolvasan solution

- Tie up dangling placenta after the mare stands

What else? I want her to be as stress-free as possible and remain lying down, in case the people and the activity have caused her to rise too soon. I know I might be barking up the wrong tree but...

Please note that this assumes everything proceeds normally. Hernia be darned if she needs real assistance!

[Sunnydays]

Hi,
I always do more than the minimum, .... but to keep the mare from jumping to her feet, and rupturing the cord prematurely, I have a "mash" (regular pellets, plus some bran, plus salt to increase thirst and sugar to give flavor and energy) waiting at the ready in a flat feedtub. As soon as the foal emerges, I add lots of hot water (also sitting at the ready) and stick the hot mash before the mare, so she is distracted for a few minutes enjoying the warm treat, and stays down. It works pretty well.

[Home Again Farm]

My guess is that the hernias are not from the mare foaling inside and rising soon after birth. One thing that the foaling attendant can do to try to prevent a hernia is to place a hand with fingers splayed on either side of the umbilicus as the mare rises.

I also agree with Sunny Days method of keeping a mare down and happy.

[clint]

Are you the only one who attends the birth? I ask this because a friend of mine had a mare foal a few years ago, and most of the neighborhood joined in. Needless to say the mare was very stressed and things didn't go well, during foaling and after. The mare never laid down, and the cord broke when the foal came out, even with me trying to lower him gently. With my mares, they know me well, I'm the only one there, and all three of them will stay down for probably 15 minutes after foaling. I check the position, and if all is well I stay out of the way, off in a corner of the foaling area, which is bigger than a stall. The light is dim, and I have a flashlight, used as needed. The only hernia on a foal I have had occurred when a mare jumped up shortly after foaling. I agree that it isn't necessarily where the mare foals, but whether she feels the need to get right up, and I do everything but play soothing music to make that happen.

[Sunnydays]

Clint - I agree it is so important that the mare feels safe and secure. I'm usually alone with her, and the mares know me well. However, I call my son (lives on the property) if I'm concerned about size or positioning. Good to have some muscle nearby, in case.
I don't think of foaling as a social occasion. I'd not want the neighbours in if I were giving birth! :eek:

[clint]

My husband is close by, but unless I need him, he doesn't come until the foal is out. He watches on the CCTV. Having muscle in the vicinity makes me feel much better. :)

[Hilltopfarmva]

I've been foaling out for 10 years, so still a novice I guess. I do bare minimum. I am there watching. making sure the feet and nose are in position, timing everything. I've had a few get stuck at the shoulders and I have stepped in to pull and then I leave. I let mom lie there resting as the foal moves around, usually hind feet still inside. Once the mare starts nickering to her baby it usually pulls its feet out and starts to crawl a little bit, within about 15 to 20 mins the mare will stand and the cord breaks. No hernias for me. The only ones that have had them is when the mare gets startled and jumps up too quickly or in some cases, new moms get nervous when they hear the baby and jump up to see it.
My first grand foal (I bred and foaled her mom out) was born without me here. Her mom was bound and determined not to let me see her delivery. I stayed up night after night, the only day I decide to go to church Daisy has her in the paddock with the other pregnant mares while I am gone. Everything was fine except mom was mildly colicky afterwards and we cleared that up. IgG was super high, no hernia and this was her first foal.
It's up to you since you know your mare, but sounds like your mare knows her business.

[JoZ]

Are you the only one who attends the birth?

I attend and my best friend does too if all goes according to plan. In 2005, as I said, sneaky mare had no one there. In 2007, I was there, friend arrived just after the birth. In 2009 we were both there, and she did need assistance since one front hoof was behind his ear.

The mare is a total doll throughout her pregnancy -- we have already begun the daily grooming-and-massage ritual. I get conned into thinking we are bonding but when it comes down to it, she is ALL prey animal and is nervous about even me.

LOVE the idea of the pan of food though. She loves her pans of food! :yes:

[pintopiaffe]

Before my girls were old, I never went into the stall. I was there, but I watched only and timed until after Mama was up.

Visually you can see if legs are positioned correctly, and nose is coming. No nead to reach in unless the visual is off.

The ONLY time I used to go in was if the sac was not broken over th foal's nose. 99.9% of the time it was by the hoofs emerging.

I would quietly sit outside the stall, timing, writing my notes, and waiting. I never did umbilicals until after Mum got up. That passive transfer time via the umbilical is so crucial...

It was only the last few years with the old Trak mare, and in Dann's last two or three that I helped. She, in fact, waited for me to come down from the house where I was watching, and the minute I showed up, plopped down and got to work! :lol:

[classicsporthorses]

I do the bare minimum too but what I do with my mares is I am there with them, usually squatted in the corner of their stall. I have had mares lay down RIGHT next to the stall wall and there is no way the foal can get out.

Anyway, what I do is be there as the foal is coming out and I break the sac and watch. Then I have my hands on the foal to rub/him or her and immediately I go to my mare's face to let her sniff and lick my hands. I know may sound gross but I have done this for years. This allows my mare to smell and lick-a natural response and it keeps her still. I go back and forth, checking on the foal and touching it and then back to mama.

I am pretty much the queen of hernias-I have had to deal with a dozen or more, different mares, different situations (foaled in or out) sired by different stallions, and I have not seen any distinct correlation between the mare's speed of standing up and a hernia-or lack there of.

[Equine Reproduction]

There is an apparent relation to hernias and heritability. With that said, we suggest doing as HAF stated. Support the abdomen around the umbilicus until the cord breaks. We haven't had a hernia in years using that method.

With foaling, we prefer doing as little as possible, unless necessary. Don't forget to de-worm your mare within 12 hours of foaling with Ivermectin. Amongst other things, it helps prevent foal scours. Typically, we de-worm at the same time we dip the umbilicus for the first time.

Good luck!

[Fairview Horse Center]

I also always give the foal an enema - usually as soon as I treat the umbilicus. I would rather not wait until things get jammed up behind a dam.

[JoZ]

I also always give the foal an enema - usually as soon as I treat the umbilicus. I would rather not wait until things get jammed up behind a dam.

Yay, good point! So do I, I just hadn't thought of it or included it in my "bare minimum" list. Thank you. And I do deworm the mare within the first several hours but probably will not add that to the stuff immediately post-birth.

I guess I will play it by ear -- I'll have a pan of yummies for my mare and I will sit with the foal so I can support his/her abdomen until my mare gets up. Hopefully Miss Mare will stay relaxed while enjoying her little reward meal!

[CrossWinds81]

Something I read and did...only give enema after the foal has had a chance to stand on his own. Straining to defecate while laying down can put strain on the opening of the umbilicus.

I also gave my mares banamine after they passed the placenta.

remember to retain the placenta so that you or your vet can look it over to make sure nothing was left behind.

I also take vitals of mare and foal 2 hours post foaling...and throughout the next 72 hours, but that's only because I was a vet tech for 2 1/2 years for a huge clinic and am freakishly paranoid of the things that 'can' go wrong in that 3 day period.

Happy foaling!!

[Fairview Horse Center]

I give my foals a few ounces of colostrum while still down. I like to get it on board as soon as possible.

[mzm farm]

I have had great luck in my "minimalist" approach - when the mare starts foaling, write down the time and sit nearby and watch VERY passively. I have a bucket for foal resusitation and emergency supplies on hand right there with me. As long as things proceed in a normal fashion, just let Mom and baby be. When they get up, dip the foal's navel ( I use povidone iodine - easy to see where I got it on and where I missed). No hernias ever, infections, or other maladies. I have had mares foal in stalls, fields, alone or with others around - all worked out fine.

I try to practice if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I do watch closely and follow my gut though. My mares are comfortable with me and let me look and handle the foals from the beginning and I watch closely for meconium passage and nursing behavior.

Keeping Mom happy goes a long way to good bonding between dam and foal and a smooth transition for baby into the outside world.