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Melzy
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:44 PM
Funny Cide was 3rd.

Melzy
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:44 PM
Funny Cide was 3rd.

MissCapitalSplash
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:44 PM
Beat me to it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I knew it wasnt his race because he was up front early, not his style http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I'm not crazy I'm just a little unwell...

Pol
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:46 PM
Awwww http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif such a bummer...

HrsArtist
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:48 PM
I just don't think he liked the mud. He just didn't look happy. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

HORSE PORTRAITS
www.pasquella.com (http://www.pasquella.com)

Anne FS
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:50 PM
I made my daughter groan when I asked how many papers will have the headline The Empire Strikes Back?

She said she hopes NONE.

joliemom
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:50 PM
Looked more like waterskiing than horse racing. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Did anyone think FC looked like he wasn't quite paying attention early on? His ears were up and back, up and back. Then again, with that Belmont crowd, who could.

Dang, I'd hoped for a triple crown.

BTW, did yawl know Mr. Joliemom's real name is Pat Day? Except this one's 6'3".

"Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead." Tom Waits

Anne FS
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:50 PM
Empire Maker and Ten Most Wanted did look terrific, though. Congratulations to their people and their bettors!

Gotta be happy for Jerry Bailey though. Before today he had won one Belmont in 17 tries.

CatchMeIfUCan
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:51 PM
I'm not a big racing fan but this was one of the most exciting days of my life. It woulda been the first time I have seen a horse take the Triple Crown. It is sad. He didn't look to happy in the mud. Empire Maker deserved it. Would Funny Cide have been the first gelding to win it?

*~Isabel~*
"If the world was truly a rational place, men would ride sidesaddle."
http://community.webshots.com/user/icecream831

Adelita
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:52 PM
I could tell around the far turn that FC wasn't gonna beat Empire Maker. Jose Santos was already riding with his arms, and the jockey on Empire Maker was so still yet, not asking a thing from his horse.

Empire Maker, by the way, is GORGEOUS.

I am just bummed, I guess. I know someone has to win, but wouldn't you think that the trainers of the other horses in the race would WANT a triple crown winner, for their sport? LOL you can tell by that comment that I am NOT involved in racing!


Edited to remove stupid comment LOL

>^.,.^<
~~Linda

*~Inside some of us is a thin person struggling to get out, but they can usually be sedated with a few pieces of chocolate cake.*~

[This message was edited by Adelita on Jun. 07, 2003 at 11:23 PM.]

Anne FS
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:53 PM
Is Scrimshaw okay? 30 lengths back. I never, never would've thought that.

Yay4Crossrails
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:54 PM
Yeah, I believe he would have been the first gelding. I don't really know much about racing, though. I was pretty dissapointed, but I think the mud screwed things up. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif oh well, there's always next year!

"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it."--James Stewart, "Harvey"

AshKnoll
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:55 PM
It looked to me that Funny Cide wasn't going to win it before he went out on the track. He was the only horse cantering in place, and just looked unhappy. I kept telling my boyfriend I want him to win, but he isn't going to. I wish I hadn't been right. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Let me get this straight. We're behind the rest of our class and we're going to catch up to them by going slower than they are? Cuckoo. --Bart Simpson

Adelita
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:55 PM
Scrimshaw was 30 lengths back? wow, I hope he's okay....

>^.,.^<
~~Linda

*~Inside some of us is a thin person struggling to get out, but they can usually be sedated with a few pieces of chocolate cake.*~

Claudius
Jun. 7, 2003, 03:56 PM
Boy,do I think Barclay has been a great interview!!! Always honest...nothing glib about him...just a guy doing his best...trying....just LOVE him...and doesn't he look like a great character actor in the movies???? I wish Frankel hadn't needed to be so common in his comments...it just points out that all of racing folk aren't as classy as Barclay Tagg!!!!

Lord Helpus
Jun. 7, 2003, 04:08 PM
Oh Well. ...... It was a great race and the best horse won. Empire Maker is a classy horse and Frankel and Bailey are superb at their jobs.

How can we be too sad when you get a result like that?

No: Creme Fraiche was the first gelding to win the Belmont. He is currently in his mid 20's I think and living on his breeder and lifetime owner's farm in Pennsylvania with a horse named Ring Bearer who was Champion at Devon (and another major SW owned by Mrs. Moran whose name I forget.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I always live within my means, even if I have to borrow to do it.

dianad
Jun. 7, 2003, 04:10 PM
Bummer about Funny Cide.... but....


great to see the commercials for Seabiscuit!!

Life is short, do it now. www.dianasart.com (http://www.dianasart.com)

Policy of Truth
Jun. 7, 2003, 04:10 PM
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif I was so disapointed FC didn't win. He didn't look very interested in the race today. I look forward to hearing of his future runs, though http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif What a cool horse.

On a side note, I hope Santos' son is ok. It's so neat how much he looks up to his dad. Maybe this will be a good learning experience for him, learning that winning isn't everything.

"You smell like dead bunnies"
~ Ralph, The Simpsons

Member of Hot TB Mare Clique

dressagelover
Jun. 7, 2003, 04:12 PM
I still can't believe he lost. It is a reall bummer. I thought that he was going to fast and wore himself out. FC had it for awhile then he looked like he just kinda of gave in. Empire Maker and Ten Most Wanted did have a great race though. Congrats to all of them.

DL

J. Turner
Jun. 7, 2003, 04:13 PM
I was really rooting for Funny Cide. He just didn't take off today like he did in the othe races. Jerry Bailey said he knew he had him beat because he was being rank. I know what rank means in general, but what did he mean specific to running a race?

That horse is a trier though, did you see him try to push through his wall once he was beat a couple times. He didn't give up.

10 Most Wanted put in a couple strides near the end the ate up the gap between he and Empire Maker. I've never seen two strides take a horse so far. Unfortunately, Empire Maker took the challenge.

And a quick prayer ... please no "Empire Strikes Back" headlines ... please...

Nigel: http://community.webshots.com/album/68326373whlDAm
Lorenzo: http://community.webshots.com/album/74700172fvoxFq
Teddy Boy: http://community.webshots.com/album/74981587sGtSKT

"When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes."
-- Shakespeare, Henry V

Member Sighthound Clique

KitterCritter
Jun. 7, 2003, 04:15 PM
No matter who won, it is terrific to have this much interest in horse racing among non-horsey folks - the industry needs it. Hopefully, the Seabiscuit movie next month will only increase interest in this wonderful sport.

Fairview Horse Center
Jun. 7, 2003, 04:16 PM
Speaking of the Advertising, did you see the ad after, from an Insurance company that said something like, "most of these TB racehorses retire at 3 years of age...what age would YOU like to retire? My thoughts were - I sure wouldn't like to retire at 3 if it meant I would get eaten soon http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

Darlyn
http://www.fairviewhorsecenter.com

Are We Having Fun Yet?

SkyBeauty
Jun. 7, 2003, 04:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Is n' Stormy:
I'm not a big racing fan but this was one of the most exciting days of my life. It woulda been the first time I have seen a horse take the Triple Crown. It is sad. He didn't look to happy in the mud. Empire Maker deserved it. Would Funny Cide have been the first gelding to win it?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He'd not only have been the first gelding to win the Triple Crown, he's the first ever to have a shot at it. Heck, from 1919 to 1959 geldings weren't even allowed to run in the Belmont!


~ Stephanie

If ignorance is bliss, why aren't a lot more people happy?

Beezer
Jun. 7, 2003, 04:39 PM
Damn. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Though, as almost always in the Belmont, class will tell. That Empire Maker ... he's one gorgeous beastie.

I kept telling myself not to want it so bad. Myself wouldn't listen. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

***Dear Sam: All Mr. Beezer really wants for Father's Day is for you to give Beezer FLYING LEAD CHANGES!!*** http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

DMK
Jun. 7, 2003, 04:45 PM
I was, am and will be loyal to Empire Maker. As I have said before, you can never have enough In Reality, and he has plenty.

Also, you have to love this little blurb about Toussaud from del mar. Methinks this mare has as much heart as Funny Cide:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Toussaud's health is quite fragile. She developed laminitis after producing Chester House and shortly after Empire Maker was born in 2000, she needed colic surgery to correct an impaction. As a result, Toussaud doesn't gallop free with other mares in an open paddock, but is grazed on a lead shank in her own special paddock every day. However, she does get to roam freely in another, smaller pen carpeted with soft wood chips, and she is examined by a veterinarian once a week. Due to her fragile health, Toussaud's foals are all raised on nurse mares, and she has a goat friend named Liz to keep her company. When she isn't feeling well, she nips at Liz, and thus the goat provides a great early warning system for Toussaud. The two are best friends. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to take away from FC, because he is a great horse, and I hope to see a rematch of EM, TMW and FC in the Breeder's Cup. So maybe a Triple Crown winner isn't the best thing for racing. Maybe a bonafide RIVALRY is better? That whole 1 1/4 mile issue could be up for discussion again... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Call your village. Their idiot is missing...

Daydream Believer
Jun. 7, 2003, 04:48 PM
I was very bummed that Funny Cide didn't win. Did you see the class his owner's showed when he didn't win? I thought they were very dignified.

Did anyone else notice what a lovely creature Ten Most Wanted is? He looks like a horse I'd want to go XC on. Uphill and Gorgeous!

"No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle..." Winston Churchill

M. O'Connor
Jun. 7, 2003, 05:41 PM
&lt;&lt;On a side note, I hope Santos' son is ok. It's so neat how much he looks up to his dad. Maybe this will be a good learning experience for him, learning that winning isn't everything.&gt;&gt;

Poor kid! My Anna (7) didn't stop sobbing for a good 10 minutes, first 'cause Funny Cide lost, then because Jose Jr. was crying! The only way I got Anna to stop was to promise her I'd try to take her to SEE Funny Cide at Belmont...(Anyone know if it's possible to get in to watch morning workouts?)

Looked like it would be a pretty good race for awhile--I noticed that Santos was braced hard and holding for the first part of the race while Bailey was sitting easy; wonder what would have happened if Santos had just let go a lot earlier?

MCL
'r' H/J/HEq

JinxyFish313
Jun. 7, 2003, 05:44 PM
I just came home from the Belmont! I'll tell ya one thing..there wasnt a person in that place that wasnt rooting for Funny Cide. It's a shame he didn't come thru today but it was obvious that he just never settled in. Empire Maker ran a fabulous race, as did Ten Most Wanted(the whole crowd was like 'who the hell is that?' wen he made his move on the outside). I was however very sad to see much of the crowd 'boo' Jerry Bailey and Empire Maker upon their return to the gap, but I guess that's New York for you!

'Saanb ke rakh ni ey jovan butri
Hun mur ke na aauni bahaar' -punjabi mc

Ruby G. Weber
Jun. 7, 2003, 05:56 PM
I'm curious. This question/observation goes to those with some racing knowledge. Wasn't it unusual for FC to change his leads so many times? I counted ten lead swaps.

I would think that much lead changing is indicitive of something negative.

www.geocities.com/daisyfieldva (http://www.geocities.com/daisyfieldva)

DMK
Jun. 7, 2003, 05:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JinxyFish313:
I was however very sad to see much of the crowd 'boo' Jerry Bailey and Empire Maker upon their return to the gap, but I guess that's New York for you!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, they booed him as he came out on to the track too. Not exactly a shining moment in the NY racing tradition. But Funny Cide's owners more than make up for them in the Class Department.

Funny thing about TMW - he and EM were my favorites for the Derby with EM a narrow but uncertain favorite - but I have been remiss about following about TMW anything since the Derby. I just knew he put in a lackluster performance in that race (big party, couldn't hear anything). But when I heard that he was bumped hard in the gate (at the Derby), knocked his back out and visited a chiro since then, I*told my sister, "You know, he could just swoop in off the pace and take it from EM AND FC!

Call your village. Their idiot is missing...

leelee
Jun. 7, 2003, 06:40 PM
Great Race! It's always so nerve-racking for me to watch em go on the muddy tracks! It did definitly look like santos was being taken for a bit of a ride in the beginning. Also--did anyone else hear about the crowd boo-ing when EM got in front of FC? Come on! have some class!! i mean EM wasnt far behind FC in the derby and didnt even race against FC in the preakness! So for that horse to win today MUST mean he is at least as good as FC! (JMHO) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif sorry for the rant...i guess boo-ing realy gets to me http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 7, 2003, 06:59 PM
Come on. You can't tell how a horse is going to run by whether he's "cantering in place" or looking sad before the race. We had a horse today that was being an idiot with the pony and won the race. That's the equivalent to when someone on this forum, before Santos' named was cleared of lighting FC up, said, "Did anyone notice the look of shock on Funny Cide's face?". Please.

When Jerry Bailey said Funny Cide was being "rank", what he probably meant was that he was trying to bolt from Santos. Seemed to me that Santos gave the horse a good ride. Funny Cide looked like he handled the mud pretty well. A lot of the time, when a horse doesn't like the track surface, their head goes up and they have a lot of action in their legs, namely the front.

Funny Cide probably burnt more energy fighting Santos than if he had led wire to wire and just gotten through it smoothly.

Guess that just goes to show you, Funny Cide isn't that class of horse. Would have been cool if he was, but he isn't. He doesn't rank up there with the Slew, Affirmed, Citation, etc. Definetly not Secretariat. I heard someone on the radio comparing Funny Side to Secretariat. Psshh. How? There is no comparison.

Just my two cents http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

barbaraG
Jun. 7, 2003, 07:18 PM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Folks, IMHO we saw a Great Race today!!

Badmouthing Anyone is unsportsmanlike! Great Horses, Great Jockeys, And Everyone made it around safely! This is BarbaraG the GWV and professional worry-wart!

Funny Cide set this Whole Country on its ear! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Yes, I wouls have liked to see him Win. But it didn't happen. It was Still a Great Race and Great Sport! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And the Breeders Cup is Coming!!

Cheers to the Little guys on the Bus!

And those bred to the Purple!

BarbaraG
GWV/and racing fan

LoriO
Jun. 7, 2003, 08:44 PM
What a great race!!! I would love to have seen Funny Cide win, but as is always said about racing...anything can happen.

I think we can look forward to seeing those 3 go up against each other again!

"Member of the Western clique"

All gave some...And some gave all...God bless the USA

Freebird!
Jun. 7, 2003, 09:02 PM
I hate to start a flame war here, but I am getting rather sick of the "know it all attitude" from some (not naming any name...). I think that ALL posters on this racing forum should be made to feel welcome, and to not have to be afraid to post there comments, thoughts and questions, no matter how absurd others on here may think they are. How else could we all learn? I applaud those who want to learn more about racing, that is what we NEED most - to educate the public on racing, and it's good points.

As for the race today, I believe everyone has there own opinion on it, and I personally respect them all. My own opinion is that he seemed to handle the track ok - wasn't climbing - but Santos was REALLY having to hold him, and he was just all spent up. I wonder if the outcome would've been the same had theer been more horses in the race, where he could've settled behind the front runners, and rated better, instead of wanting to Go, Go, Go, and then being al spent up at the end - didn't anyone tell him the race was a mile and a half?? LOL. As for his many lead changes - I honestly didn't notice as I was having to chase my 14 month around the house during the race - but if he did indeed switch more then he normally did, it would - to me anyway - indicates some sort of a problem, like either he was sore, or rank (didn't want to relax) etc. I also have to say that I ALWAYS pay attention to how a horse acts in the post parade, in fact I thought I detected a slight bobble in Funny Cide's hind end, but who knows.

Okay, one more poiunt before I get off my soapbox....How on EARTH can you even begin to compare FC to SS, Affirmed, etc. Thats like compairing apples and oranges. They are/were different horses, with different styles, during different years. If we matched them all up in one big race, who knows who would win, so maybe you are right about one thing - there is no comparison. For THIS year, in THESE Triple Crown races, I very MUCH think that FC is a class act - what more proof do you want?? (I think a 1st in BOTH the KD and Preakness, and a 3rd in the Belmont in pretty damn good if you ask me.) I also think that both his owners and trainer are class acts - which is more then I can say for the Bobby Frankel trained Empire Maker - while the horse ran an awsome race, I am not a huge B Frankel fan...guess I'm not a big fan of "holier-then-thou's"

~*~Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me either. Just pretty much leave me the hell alone.~~ Straight from the horse's mouth ~*~

Two Toofs
Jun. 7, 2003, 09:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soup From the Store:
Come on. You can't tell how a horse is going to run by whether he's "cantering in place" or looking sad before the race. We had a horse today that was being an idiot with the pony and won the race. That's the equivalent to when someone on this forum, before Santos' named was cleared of lighting FC up, said, "Did anyone notice the look of shock on Funny Cide's face?". Please..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From a horseman's standpoint, I disagree with the above quote. If a horse just isn't his or normal self pre-race, it can indeed be indicative of how they are feeling that particular day. The horse looked a bit lackluster compared to his usual pre-race self. Seeing that, coupled with that nasty track, struck a little pit in my stomach after being so hyped all day.

Not going to say it is necessarily indicative of winning or losing, but it is indeed something to take into consideration. Horse racing is not an exact science. Have you never run a horse and before you even get all the way to the paddock, you just know that they aren't quite into it that day? Or in the contrary, have been able to feel the electricity in their step and just know they are going to give 110%?

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

teal tea
Jun. 7, 2003, 09:05 PM
Funny Cide's owners have a lot of class, the wealthier crowd would do well to learn from them. I honestly think that FC's owners were happy w/ the way the horse went, it just wasn't his day.

Why did Empire Maker's owner decide not to race in the Preakness. He said it was b/c EM was not well, but if the allegations against Santos had turned out he would have risked his horse's health to win and gone ahead and raced him(I think that's what he said). So he shows up at the Belmont and races EM, even though he has no shot at the Triple Crown and gets in the way of our having a Triple Crown winner (yeah I know there was another horse after EM but still). I think that Funny Cide was the better of the two horses b/c he did all the legs of the Triple Crown and put in an impressive show at all of them (he didn't come in last). I mean is this how it has always been. Would we not have had a Secretariat or Affirmed if this is the way things are always done? I mean having a horse enter into the Belmont even if it means not having a shot at being the Winner and depriving us of our Triple Crown winner.

Personally I'm jaded. Before the race, I wasn't sure that FC was going to win b/c we've come so close so many times, losing by a nose once (that was heart breaking), and not having our Winner. Am I the only one who feels this way?

Two Toofs
Jun. 7, 2003, 09:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freebird:
I hate to start a flame war here, but I am getting rather sick of the "know it all attitude" from some (not naming any name...). I think that ALL posters on this racing forum should be made to feel welcome, and to not have to be afraid to post there comments, thoughts and questions, no matter how absurd others on here may think they are. How else could we all learn? I applaud those who want to learn more about racing, that is what we NEED most - to educate the public on racing, and it's good points.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;insert hearty applause smiley thing here&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

lilienhof
Jun. 8, 2003, 03:30 AM
I was in Sackets Harbor NY last night watching the race. Probably about 2000 people watching big screen TVs. At first whole crowd was just yelling and screaming - go Funny Cide go - but than when it got more clear that he was passed by and ended up the crowd got quieter. At the end we were all bummed out. It was fun though. I also got to meet one of the owner I believe he comes into the place I work at all the time. Started with that he had a hat on it said Saratoga Racetrack or something and we started talking. That's when he told me about Funny Cide. I haven't seen him since but I'm sure he'll be in soon again and I will shake his hand and congratiolate him. It's still great how Funny Cide ran.

Fred
Jun. 8, 2003, 04:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Two Toofs:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freebird:
I hate to start a flame war here, but I am getting rather sick of the "know it all attitude" from some (not naming any name...). I think that ALL posters on this racing forum should be made to feel welcome, and to not have to be afraid to post there comments, thoughts and questions, no matter how absurd others on here may think they are. How else could we all learn? I applaud those who want to learn more about racing, that is what we NEED most - to educate the public on racing, and it's good points.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;insert hearty applause smiley thing here&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FC is a class horse - he proved it - with his speed, heart and determination. He didn't win yesterday, but he didn't lose.

War Admiral
Jun. 8, 2003, 04:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soup From the Store:
Come on. You can't tell how a horse is going to run by whether he's "cantering in place" or looking sad before the race<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Somewhat disagree... I'm only an armchair bettor but I usually don't settle on my choice until I see the shots of them coming out of the barn and into the paddock. I pick whoever looks the fittest and the most up for it. Successfully picked quite a few Derby winners that way! Coming out of the barn I thought it really looked like Empire Maker's day, much though I was hoping for Funny Cide.

Did they boo?? We were watching at the barn & shut it off right after the race so we could all get back to work. I'm sorry to hear it if they did. Two good horses tried their best, and Empire Maker is a WONDERFUL horse and deserves his moment in the sun!

______________
"It's a thin line between a smart TB and a smart-@$$ TB."

SpotsNChrome
Jun. 8, 2003, 04:52 AM
it was a jockeys race, and Bailey is the BEST. He made FC keep moving up, he sat still, he had horse at the end, he is soo GOOD! it was amazing to watch, and disappointing in one way to know by the last turn there was no way it was going to happen.

FC did not look sound in the paddock or the warm up.

FairWeather
Jun. 8, 2003, 04:54 AM
Did anybody notice that FC didnt look totally sound on the right hind in the Post parade? He looked like he was hitching and short on just that side...
wierd. I was totally bummed.

__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

SpotsNChrome
Jun. 8, 2003, 04:58 AM
Hmmm, I thought it was the left hind...stabbing it and hitching. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

FairWeather
Jun. 8, 2003, 05:18 AM
SNC--you are right...it was the left...sorry!
There just was something NQR about the way he was moving.

__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

Daydream Believer
Jun. 8, 2003, 06:49 AM
lilienhof, How cool that you got to watch the race with an owner!

Let's not forget that some of the greatest race horses of all time only won 2 of 3 races of the triple crown. Man O War wasn't even entered in the Derby but did anyone notice in the prerace discussion when they were showing states that he won the Belmost with a 20 length margin...the 3rd greatest ever? Cool... I can't remember which race Man O War won with a 100 length margin but it was a big one in his 3 year old year against top colts. Anyway, I digress... I don't think you can write off Funny Cide as a "not great" horse from this race. I can't forget how he walked away with the Preakness....

What I think is unfortunate is that Funny Cide is the end of the road. No offspring to carry on for him.

"No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle..." Winston Churchill

Fairview Horse Center
Jun. 8, 2003, 07:00 AM
I can't help but wonder why you would change the way a horse runs in the Belmont. I have seen the same thing MANY times over the years. Horse is a middle of the pack, come from behind winner. Wins the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness. In the Belmont (the LONGEST race) they send him to the front where he tires himself out. I began to notice this as a kid in the 60's. Made me very discouraged with racing as it looked fixed to me as a 10 - 12 year old.

Darlyn
http://www.fairviewhorsecenter.com

Are We Having Fun Yet?

hoopoe
Jun. 8, 2003, 07:16 AM
It is all just fun. All the pomp and dreaming we get to be part of.

IMHO it seems FC has learned that he can run like a deamon, but now needs to learn how to rate and release the power as needed.

For me I am glad to have a horse I can follow beyond his three year old races again.

My only disappointment, and I feel this every year, is that we have to listen to Sinatra belch croon and look for the proper key of "New York, New York" instead of the local choir singing "Sidewalks of New York".

Sinatra brings tears to my eyes but not the same kind that come when they sing, "My Old Kentucky Home."

_\\]
-- * &gt; hoopoe
The ancient Greeks did not write obituaries. They only wanted to know if you had a passion.

Heather
Jun. 8, 2003, 08:31 AM
I want to like Emprie Maker. I really do. He's by one of my all time favorite stallions, Unbridled, and the stories of his mother are a total hoot. He's beautiful and classy, and and . . . and I just can't. Frankel is just such a loudmouthed classless boor. As I said on the other thread, If I'd had to listen to him say one more time that he always knew he had the best horse I was going to throw something heavy through my television. Frankel completely ruined any enjoyment I might recieve out of watching this lovely horse win.

Funny Cide is a fab horse, and his connections are the class of the field. I hope the rest of the sport takes a lesson from them. And can someone please explain to me why finishing third means the horse didn't have the class to get the distance? He didn't finish 50 lengths out and dead last. It was a credible performance, though not a winning one, and I'll agree with those who said they could tell in the post parade it wasn't going to happen. He just looked unhappy and not ready to run.

Just a thought to the industry folks, perhaps racing would be more embraced by the populous if you put a sock in the mouth of people like Frankel, and put a sock in the mouth of those who like to pontificate on all the reasons why despite two triple crown victories a beloved horse like FUnny Cide, "isn't classy enough." Um, I saw the horse win, twice, impressively, and I saw him fight his heart out yesterday. Don't tell me that horse doesn't have class.

Also, Ten Most Wanted--unbelievably beautiful animal. TOok my breath away. That is all.

drifting cloud
Jun. 8, 2003, 09:09 AM
Well hell. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I am disappointed Funny Cide didn't win, but that's horse racing. I could tell about halfway through the race that FC wasn't going to win. He didn't "kick" when he should have kicked. Down the backstretch, I thought he looked like a tired horse. I don't know if he was tired from fighting Santos or from the whole Triple Crown trail. I thought it was interesting that Empire Maker and Ten Most Wanted ran so much better...and they were both more rested coming into the race.

I still love Funny Cide. His race wasn't a clunker like War Emblem's Belmont. Winning the Derby and Preakness and being 3rd in the Belmont is nothing to be ashamed of.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Guess that just goes to show you, Funny Cide isn't that class of horse. Would have been cool if he was, but he isn't.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I STRONGLY disagree. How can you say this just because he ran 3rd to two other very good horses in a Grade 1 race??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif His wins in the Derby and Preakness showed exactly how much class he has, and he will show his class in future races.

Speaking of class, Barclay Tagg and Sackatoga Stable have as much class as Funny Cide. It was clear they were disappointed, but they still clapped for the winner and said nice things. A far cry from Bobby Frankel, who has been throwing sour grapes since the Derby.

Oh, and regarding comparing FC to Secretariat...I never did this, but Penny Chenery (Secretariat's owner) said Funny Cide reminds her of another big, red horse she used to know. I think she is more qualified to make comparisons than anyone on this bulletin board.

"The power of acute observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

[This message was edited by drifting cloud on Jun. 08, 2003 at 12:29 PM.]

dressager
Jun. 8, 2003, 09:18 AM
I was reading through my book on Secretariat today and it mentioned that this horse had the build of both a distance horse (for the Belmont) and a sprinter (for the first two)... the book also mentioned that it takes a very different type of horse to win the Belmont.

From the NYRA- (paraphrased)

A distance horse is generally longer in the body (takes longer strides) whereas sprinters are short coupled and heavily muscles (shorter strides).

Secretariat had the body length of a long striding (distance) horse and the heavy muscles of a sprinter.
Is this true?

Also, Secretariat has always been my favorite, but someone once told me he wasn't anything special. If he raced successfully over long distances and those that were shorter AND raced on the grass, wouldn't that make him very good (even if he didn't win the Triple Crown)?

Dressager (http://www.geocities.com/lubenkafarm)
You can't dance and stay uptight

jparkes
Jun. 8, 2003, 09:37 AM
Like millions of others around this country, I was pulling for Funny Cide and his team. They all showed the "class" that's been lost in this sport for many years. Even though he didn't win, he has a following that, I believe, will be like that of John Henry. With good health and training, Funny Cide may very well become the next John Henry. He will win more and will be remembered by the fans long after his rivals have been retired and forgotten.

Secretplace Farm
www.spfarm.com (http://www.spfarm.com)

Duffy
Jun. 8, 2003, 10:59 AM
What I noticed with Funny Cide in the post parade, is that he was cross-cantering. I don't know if that's normal for him, while being held by the lead pony, or not. He was on his left lead behind and right lead in front, if I recall. Don't know if it means anything or not - just an observation. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"B***h in training"

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 8, 2003, 11:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drifting cloud:
I STRONGLY disagree. How can you say this just because he ran 3rd to two other very good horses in a Grade 1 race??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif His wins in the Derby and Preakness showed exactly how much class he has, and he will show his class in future races. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did he win the Triple Crown? Nope. He isn't in the same field. Not saying he isn't an incredible horse, but he isn't AS incredible as the Triple Crown winners. Call it era or time frame all you want, the races are the same, the level of greatness and difficulty is the same.

Funny Cide might remind Secretariat's owner of big red, but Funny Cide is NO Secretariat. I think you're nuts if you disagree.

Regarding what someone else said, (I think it was dressager)....none of the Triple Crown races are "sprint" races, though they are shorter than the Belmont. Just wanted to point that out http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As for sending Funny Cide early: With some horses, that's their style of running. I don't know about Funny Cide, but in some instances, if a horse is passed, they sulk and stop. Better to keep them up front. Sometimes if you try to hold them, they fight it (which is, if I'm not mistaken, along the line of what happened with Funny Cide). There are many reasons.

It's hard to sit there and analyze the race and the way it was run without being an expert and avid follower, not just someone who started following the sport a few months ago. The trainers know the horses better than anyone, they're the ones who give the instructions, and what Santos did seemed to make sense.

I think the race played out to what each horse deserved, and I don't think Funny Cide was deprived of anything. No bob at the gate, clean break, smooth trip, fair finish. On Belmont day, Empire Maker was just the better horse.

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

Glimmerglass
Jun. 8, 2003, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soup From the Store:
On Belmont day, Empire Maker was just the better horse. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed with a heavy heart. That isn't to knock Funny Cide whom I still find to be a real thrill with gobs of personality and I have been loudly cheering (and betting on) all along.

No second guesses, no what if's - just accepting of the outcome and enjoying what he and the Tagg Team has done. They came so far and did so much! For everyone else I say just savor from this thrilling chase over the last five weeks all the fun it brought back to horse racing for many fans and fair weather spectators.

Funny Cide can hold his head up high and I for one strongly look forward to seeing him in person in August at Saratoga and the Tavers Stakes!

sprite
Jun. 8, 2003, 12:19 PM
While not a Triple Crown winner, and therefore **technically** not in the same league as Affirmed, Seattle Slew etc...

being in the same league as Sunday Silence, Northern Dancer, and Silver Charm ain't all bad http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

This week's favorite CD: Mark Knopfler, "Sailing to Philadelphia".

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 8, 2003, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sprite:
While not a Triple Crown winner, and therefore **technically** not in the same league as Affirmed, Seattle Slew etc...

being in the same league as Sunday Silence, Northern Dancer, and Silver Charm ain't all bad http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heheh, good point http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

*SERAPH*
Jun. 8, 2003, 12:24 PM
Fairview Horse Center--I second your opinion and agree with you whole-heartedly.

I believe that Funny Cide could have won this race, regardless of how fit EM or TMW looked. He did not look unhappy, unwell, unsound at all. I saw the same fire in his eyes that he always has. I did not see the same fire in anyone else's eyes. IMHO, Funny Cide was robbed of his hard-fought triple crown victory and America was robbed of a hero. In other words, I believe the jockey sent him from the gate with great urging and I did not see him check him once....

I personally will not watch another tc race as I am sick to my very heart at such crookedness.

"The world needs Dreamers and the world needs Doers;
But above all, the world needs Dreamer's who Do."

Valkryie Warrior Woman-- Proud Member of the Thread Killers Clique!!!

Code3
Jun. 8, 2003, 12:51 PM
I find it fascinating that, as experienced horse people, we still all saw different things. I, too, noticed that Funny Cide was cross cantering for a prolonged period of time and wondered at it. I also commented to my SO, a non-horse person, that Funny Cide went to the front and - in my eyes - was being held rather strongly. The body position of Santos was upright and almost leaning back. If there was urging, I didn't see it. My caveat, of course, is that I'm not a race person so what do I know. Interesting discussion and observations, though.

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 8, 2003, 12:53 PM
Horses are never "checked" unless they are in danger of running into something (clipping heels of another for example) or have broken down (in which case the rider is just trying to hold the horse up). Checking a horse at speed is dangerous. You did see Santos taking a hold of FC to keep him from running his race too early. Having a hold is necessary but can often cost a horse energy needed later (he's fighting the rider to run how he wants without naturally rating himself). FC can be a little rank as we'd heard he was in yesterday's race. He also worked too fast (I heard talk from an interview off THE FORM that he ran off w/ his rider, his last a.m. work before BELMONT) last week...could be that cost him his chance.
At any rate it takes a truly great horse to win those three classics and if you look at the past Triple winners you'll note intelligently that FC was no Seattle Slew, Affirmed, and certainly no Secretariat though he is a very fine stakes contender.
If you don't understand the training of a race horse it is a shame you can't just sit back and enjoy it as a fan.

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

DMK
Jun. 8, 2003, 01:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sprite:
being in the same league as Sunday Silence, Northern Dancer, and Silver Charm ain't all bad http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I think it's safe to say that he won't be in Northern Dancer's league anytime soon, but I hear War Emblem calls Funny Cide his role model! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Call your village. Their idiot is missing...

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 8, 2003, 01:33 PM
P.S., It's great to see so much sentiment inspired by FC...the sport needs a horse we can follow (let's hear it for geldings! Now wouldn't it be fantastic if ONLY great tried & true colts were bred...and not sent to the finacially less risky breeding shed so soon?).
I personally yelled at the Pimlico screen for FC and my eyes welled up when they showed Santos' son in tears. That's part of what makes me love this sport. But I also played the 6-1 exacta ($44.)...but I rooted & yelled for FC....wished I'd gone 1-6 ($100+)....but I cheered for FC. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Looking forward to seeing EM & FC run together again!

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

lilienhof
Jun. 8, 2003, 02:17 PM
Daydream believer,

no the one owner wasn't watching from Sackets Harbor where I was. I was trying to say though that I met him when he came at the store. That's all.

lifesabreeze
Jun. 8, 2003, 03:16 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by *SERAPH*:
Fairview Horse Center--I second your opinion and agree with you whole-heartedly.

I believe that Funny Cide could have won this race, regardless of how fit EM or TMW looked. He did not look unhappy, unwell, unsound at all. I saw the same fire in his eyes that he always has. I did not see the same fire in anyone else's eyes. IMHO, Funny Cide was robbed of his hard-fought triple crown victory and America was robbed of a hero. In other words, I believe the jockey sent him from the gate with great urging and I did not see him check him once....

I personally will not watch another tc race as I am sick to my very heart at such crookedness.



I hope your joking!?

SkyBeauty
Jun. 8, 2003, 04:47 PM
Fairview Horse Center said: "I can't help but wonder why you would change the way a horse runs in the Belmont. I have seen the same thing MANY times over the years. Horse is a middle of the pack, come from behind winner. Wins the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness. In the Belmont (the LONGEST race) they send him to the front where he tires himself out. I began to notice this as a kid in the 60's. Made me very discouraged with racing as it looked fixed to me as a 10 - 12 year old."

Seraph said :"Fairview Horse Center--I second your opinion and agree with you whole-heartedly.

I believe that Funny Cide could have won this race, regardless of how fit EM or TMW looked. He did not look unhappy, unwell, unsound at all. I saw the same fire in his eyes that he always has. I did not see the same fire in anyone else's eyes. IMHO, Funny Cide was robbed of his hard-fought triple crown victory and America was robbed of a hero. In other words, I believe the jockey sent him from the gate with great urging and I did not see him check him once....

I personally will not watch another tc race as I am sick to my very heart at such crookedness."

Fairview and Seraph,
I am not sure which horse you're talking about, but it certainly isn't Funny Cide. Funny Cide is anything but a come from behind horse. He is rarely on the lead early, but he always stays close to the pace. In the Derby, he was never more than 2 1/2 lengths off the leader, and in the Preakness, he spent most of his time a length off. He was only ,more than that at the first call, and then it was only by 3. Hardly a "middle of the pack" horse.
The Belmont was an unusual race, in that there were only 6 horses entered. The fewer horses that run, the harder your racing strategy is. If you try and hang behind, then you have to let someone else dictate the pace, possibly making you hold your horse too hard, and setting up for a true late runner. If you have a horse like Funny Cide, who prefers to run with the pace, then your best bet is to take the lead, and try and control the pace yourself.
I do think that Santos misjudged the pace a little, though. The fractions were very slow, and rather than pick it up a little, he fought Funny Cide to keep them that way. He may have done better to let him out a little so that Funny Cide would relax more. As it was, the pace was slow enough to set up perfectly for Empire Maker and Ten Most Wanted, because they were fresher than he was. Santos never asked Funny Cide to run until Empire Maker was at his throatlatch, much less sent him under great urging from the gate.
I doubt that anything would have helped yesterday though. Funny Cide seemed to take his last breeze very well, but he was switching leads oddly even then. Then he also switched too many times in the Belmont for something not to be wrong. Either the schedule took too much out of him, or maybe he's developing a small problem, who knows? But I don't think that he was up to the Belmont yesterday, that's all. Doesn't take a darn think away from what he's done, or will do in the future, but he certainly wasn't robbed.


~ Stephanie

If ignorance is bliss, why aren't a lot more people happy?

Fairview Horse Center
Jun. 8, 2003, 05:18 PM
Sorry, I meant that in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness, he was not in front, and had other horses setting the pace while he was running comfortable behind them, then passing the front running "pace setters". In the Belmont he went right to the front. I had just seen the same thing again and again, esp with horses that have won both. If that had been the case, he may have been more relaxed and not fighting. Could that have been the reason he won the others? Is he always easier to control if he has a couple in front of him? If so, why change when he is going for the Tripple Crown? If so, surely the trainer would have figured that out by now? Why change?

(Just not up on proper racing terminology - to me a middle of the pack horse is one that is not the front runner, and not way back, and one that comes from behind is passing other horses later in the race to win)

Darlyn
http://www.fairviewhorsecenter.com

Are We Having Fun Yet?

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 8, 2003, 05:38 PM
Fairview:

It's been said on this post about 30 times http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Funny Cide was trying to bolt, and Santos was having a time holding him. Hope that helps.

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

Two Toofs
Jun. 8, 2003, 06:05 PM
Re: Funny Cide to the front.... Skybeauty wrote a great description of the hows and whys. It would have been different if Funny Cide were a traditional closer and they tried to take him right to the front, but he sits right there at the pace normally, and for all the reasons she stated, as well as the fact that on a track like that, getting slammed in the face with the slop can also be a factor, I really don't think it was a poor decision. It just wasn't his day. I didn't notice anything behind, I probably wasn't paying close enough attention, but I really didn't care for the way he was looking up front when he was walking. I really felt the whole day that he could do it until I saw them bringing him to the paddock (that, and the slop - a track like that changes all the rules).



AND....

*with a loud whoosh going by "over head"*

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soup From the Store:
Fairview:

It's been said on this post about 30 times http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Funny Cide was trying to bolt, and Santos was having a time holding him. Hope that helps.
.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>t's hard to sit there and analyze the race and the way it was run without being an expert and avid follower, not just someone who started following the sport a few months ago. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
If you don't understand the training of a race horse it is a shame you can't just sit back and enjoy it as a fan.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yah know, no one else will probably say this specificially, so flame away, but these are the types of comments that are really getting tiresome in this forum. They are completely self-righteous and absolutely uncalled for statements. If they aren't meant to come out that what, perhaps sitting back and putting a little more thought in before putting the keyboard to work might be of some benefit.

I personally like it when people take an interest in my sport, whether they completely understand it or haven't a clue, or make legitimate observations without necessarily using the proper "slang" (i.e., checked vs. rated) and to take a holier than thou attitude like what is seen here so often has got to put a bad taste in people's mouths. Not everyone has been around the track or racing for decades (and some people who seem to think they have but haven't even been alive that long) but it doesn't mean they can't make legitimate observations or have legitimate opinions about the sport. One thing that, unfortunately, some people never learn about racing no matter how long they've been around a backside is that nothing is set in stone.

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

Fairview Horse Center
Jun. 8, 2003, 06:08 PM
Yes, I know. And the reason may have been....

Darlyn
http://www.fairviewhorsecenter.com

Are We Having Fun Yet?

Fairview Horse Center
Jun. 8, 2003, 06:12 PM
do ya think a horse in front of him may have slowed him down without fighting his rider?

Darlyn
http://www.fairviewhorsecenter.com

Are We Having Fun Yet?

Fairview Horse Center
Jun. 8, 2003, 06:15 PM
I have noticed it so often in previous TC's, that I actually said to my husband that I hope they don't take him right to the front. and I chanted it while he was in the gate. and then I said "oh cr*p" before the first turn when he took the front.

Darlyn
http://www.fairviewhorsecenter.com

Are We Having Fun Yet?

Two Toofs
Jun. 8, 2003, 06:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center:
I have noticed it so often in previous TC's, that I actually said to my husband that I hope they don't take him right to the front. and I chanted it while he was in the gate. and then I said "oh cr*p" before the first turn when he took the front.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For those who play into history repeating itself, I believe (but can't state for a fact off the top of my head) that I heard/read somewhere in the coverage this week that every horse that has won the TC has completed the crown has won the Belmont by going to the front.

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

*SERAPH*
Jun. 8, 2003, 06:45 PM
I don't care how sappy this sounds but it truly broke my heart to see Funny Cide run that way...he almost ALWAYS stays off the lead by 2-3 horses and makes his strike as they're coming around to the homestretch!

I've watched every race that he has run and also know that a similar mistake was made in the earlier race that EM beat him at...he chased down the speed horse upfront and didn't have anything left in the tank for the final drive home. I, too, thought that the jockey and trainer learned from that mistake as was obvious in the two BRILLIANT trips he had in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness...

Sorry, I'm not BUYING! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

"The world needs Dreamers and the world needs Doers;
But above all, the world needs Dreamer's who Do."

Valkryie Warrior Woman-- Proud Member of the Thread Killers Clique!!!

doublete
Jun. 8, 2003, 08:17 PM
I dont really have much to say- I just think that FC is a classy horse, the trip to the Triple Crown probablyjust took a bit more out of him than it should have. (or we wish it would have rather).
Although, I will say EM did look like the classier horse in the post parade.
What a race though.

Soup- I think the fact that everyone is taking an interest (whether they're wrong or not is beside the point) in racing right now is a great thing. They're trying to understand, and the knowledgable folk here need to bear with all us 'still trying' folk and help us out.

But, I CANT WAIT to see those three (and Peace Rules) all match up again!

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.

lifesabreeze
Jun. 8, 2003, 08:26 PM
Funny Cide is rank and doesn't rate well. His connections would have preferred if ANY horse would have gone for the lead so FC could sit off the pace. Everybody else could keep their horses slower than FC, so he ended up on the front end.

FC wouldn't cooperate enough even for Santos to be able to hold Empire Maker inside of him. Bailey/EM sees Santos can't slow down,so he slows just enough to "switch lanes" and put EM outside and just a little behind FC. This moves FC down into the deeper water and forces him to feel pressured. Bailey said he knew he had FC beat when they entered the backstretch because of how rank FC was acting.

Santos said FC was acting like he didn't like the slop. He said he was climbing early in the race. Climbing is when a horse picks his head and front feet up too high,sometimes switching leads back and forth. They usually climb if water splashes their belly or they don't like dirt in their face. Climbing would make a rank horse even more difficult to control.

I hope this explains why FC was on the lead. The trainer nor the rider could have prevented it.

Atypical
Jun. 8, 2003, 08:33 PM
Personally I had one of those, sinking in the gut oh darn it's not going to happen again feelings when I first turned on my TV and saw him being led to the paddock. Ears were relaxed to the point of flopping. Then he didn't look all that right in the post, as others have mentioned the counter cantering and then the oddness to his gait behind. COUld be nothing, could have been a big deal.

As far as taking him to the front, looking at the way Santos was riding, high in the stirrups and holding hard, I don't think he had much of a choice. Perhaps we BBer's should not critisize the people behind this wonderful horse, since in reality few can really know anything concrete. It's pretty easy to be the peanut gallery and thorw opinions around. That being said, I'm going to offer up my two cents http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I do not think he was robbed of his TC chance, he just was bested by another classy colt.

My hat's are off to the trainers of all three colts, FC, TMW, EM. Funny thing, guy in my dorm made a prediction back in April which, seeing as he was more than a little drunk at the time, I brushed off as rambling. "Horses, I know horses. For the Triple Crown it's Funny Cide, Funny Cide, and Ten Most Wanted!" Dang if it didn't almost happen too....... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

SkyBeauty
Jun. 9, 2003, 04:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *SERAPH*:
I don't care how sappy this sounds but it truly broke my heart to see Funny Cide run that way...he almost ALWAYS stays off the lead by 2-3 horses and makes his strike as they're coming around to the homestretch!

I've watched every race that he has run and also know that a similar mistake was made in the earlier race that EM beat him at...he chased down the speed horse upfront and didn't have anything left in the tank for the final drive home.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seraph,

Go back and watch the races again, or check out Funny Cide's PPs. The only 3 races that he won prior to the Kentucky Derby were won on the lead. He had the lead by the second or third call in each. In the Wood, the race that he lost to Empire Maker, he never got the lead at all, he ran in second every step of the way. Possibly you're thinking of the LA Derby, when he was beaten by Peace Rules, when he was on the lead and wound up running 3rd, but he hadn't run in 2 months, so I'd imagine that he just came up short. But he didn't exactly chase down the speed horse in that race, either. He was on the lead until the mile pole, and then got tired.

Funny Cide is a very aggressive horse who likes to be in front. Ocassionally with that kind of horse, you get lucky with the pace and the race goess fast enough that he's happy right behind the lead, instead of on it, but more often you're going to have to let him do his thing, and hope for the best. Otherwise, he'll wear himself out fighting the rider, instead of relaxing. But then you always have to hope that he has enough gas to finish.
Nobody cheated him, and nobody threw the race. It just wasn't his day.


~ Stephanie

If ignorance is bliss, why aren't a lot more people happy?

Claudius
Jun. 9, 2003, 04:49 AM
I wonder if FC's connections wonder if a mile and a half or so at a 2 minute clip might have been preferable to his blazing work in preparation for this trip....but then would this have even been possible considering the horse's temperment? AND, in retrospect, does anyone else wish Santos had let FC run a little freer instead of strangling him on the front end...it would have taken more out of ER and maybe less out of FC than the constant restraint? Just back seat driving here...enjoying the debate!!!

SkyBeauty
Jun. 9, 2003, 05:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center:
do ya think a horse in front of him may have slowed him down without fighting his rider?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not likely. They were going too slow. Funny Cide is a horse that likes to run on the lead, if he can get there. barring that, with a decent pace, he will tuck in behind a horse, but he runs easier on the lead.
Horses aren't like cars, and they all have their preferred way of running. That's where racing strategy comes in. In a race, horses don't run all out every step of the way. They all need a breather at some point. They have a compfortable speed that is easy for them to maintain, and then they have a kick. Some horses are comfortable at slower speeds, and are deep closers, and some horses need a stiff pace, but they still aren't giving it their all, so they have something left in the stretch. You try and set up your racing strategy to take advantage of the other horse's weaknesses, and lessen your own.
Funny Cide likes the lead, or as close to it as he can get. That kind of horse can be scary to run in the Belmont because of the distance. A mile and a half is a long way to go all out, so you have to hope that you don't get pressed every step of the way. With only 5 other horses, nobody was going to want the lead, and everybody was going to stick pretty close together. I'd imagine that Tagg and Santos wound up on the lead purely by accident, because nobody else went for it, and not because they planned it that way. Once they were there, Santos had no shot at pulling Fnny Cide back off of it, so he tried to keep the pace slower, so that Funny Cide wouldn't burn himslef out. Baily knew it, so he pushed Empire Maker onto FC's butt, making him more determined to go a litle faster. Santos had a tough choice at this point. Let Funny Cide out, and hope that he had enough in the tank to make the mile and a half, or try to rate him. He chose to try and save the horse a little. I would have let him go, and hoped for the best, rather than risk burnung him out by fighting with him. But I wasn't riding him. If he'd done that, he may very well have come up short in the stretch after all.
When you're watching a race, it's easy to forget what it's like to be riding in it. Every decision has to be made quickly, under huge pressure, depending on what everybody else is doing at the same time. And no matter what the rider chooses to do, the horse has to cooperate. Santos did the best he could, it just didn't work out, that's all. That's why the Triple Crown is such a big deal. It's a nearly impossible feat for one horse. Funny Cide sure gave them a run for their money, though. He's still a great horse, and we'll see a lot more of him in races to come.


~ Stephanie

If ignorance is bliss, why aren't a lot more people happy?

Anne FS
Jun. 9, 2003, 05:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daydream Believer:
Did anyone else notice what a lovely creature Ten Most Wanted is? He looks like a horse I'd want to go XC on. Uphill and Gorgeous!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DDB, my daughter said that same thing!! And she said, now that's a HORSE.

Anne FS
Jun. 9, 2003, 05:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dressager:
Also, Secretariat has always been my favorite, but someone once told me he wasn't anything special. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who told you that? They're nuts. Nuts and WRONG.

joliemom
Jun. 9, 2003, 06:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne FS:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dressager:
Also, Secretariat has always been my favorite, but someone once told me he wasn't anything special. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who told you that? They're nuts. Nuts and WRONG.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Obviously someone who didn't witness his win at the Belmont.

"Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead." Tom Waits

*SERAPH*
Jun. 9, 2003, 06:39 AM
I just thought Santos would/could have greater control over Funny Cide. Maybe I'm wrong. I still feel had he not go to the lead and sat off the pace as he usually does that he would have had the TC. Maybe he didn't like the slop...guess I wouldn't like the slop either. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Extremely disappointed! I wonder if I'll even see a TC winner in my life time? And STRONGLY feel that if you want to win the TC a horse has to race in EVERY race to have a shot! If they're injured in the Kentucky Derby and have to take a break, too bad. And just coming in for the Belmont--no way!

How could one even say Empire Maker was the better horse when he's had five weeks off??? Weaker horse, not better. At least Funny Cide won 2 grueling races and finished third in this one!!!

"The world needs Dreamers and the world needs Doers;
But above all, the world needs Dreamer's who Do."

Valkryie Warrior Woman-- Proud Member of the Thread Killers Clique!!!

Anne FS
Jun. 9, 2003, 07:13 AM
Seraph, that's WHY it's so special. Because all the Triple Crown winners faced the same obstacles: 3 tracks, 3 states, shorter races, that loooonnngggg Belmont, rested opponents, fresh opponents ready just for the Belmont or whatever, and those few like Whirlaway, Affirmed, Seattle Slew and Secretariat faced the same obstacles, some of them even worse ones, and they triumphed over them all, and THAT'S why they are great and achieved this RARE achievement. It's not a cheat, it's WHY so few are so great as to do it all facing all the things you mentioned - and they DID it.

Anne FS
Jun. 9, 2003, 07:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *SERAPH*:
I just thought Santos would/could have greater control over Funny Cide. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seraph, the reality is that when a horse that fit and that strong says he's going, even a strong man like Mr. Santos is not going to call the shots. Think of how incredibly fit and strong Funny Cide is. If a horse decides we are going to control him and dictate his speed today, then we will, but if they take it into their head to have it their own way, their power is tremendous and that's just what happened.

Too bad FC picked that day and that race to be difficult but again, that's WHY the Triple Crown is so special and rare. All the other TC winners had to hold it together through all 3 of the races in order to triumph, and it's practically impossible, so that's why we honor those that managed this incredibly difficult task.

fleur
Jun. 9, 2003, 07:45 AM
Is it true that every year since 1998 has seen a horse take the Derby and the Preakness but not the Belmont?

buryinghill1
Jun. 9, 2003, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *SERAPH*:
I just thought Santos would/could have greater control over Funny Cide. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Control?! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif The best lesson I ever had in the racehorse world was from some trainer who told me "only God is in control."
I got to start from a gate a few times (on a real loser). I was told to grab mane and make sure I didn't fall off. Now of course I'm no Santos, but I'll never forget the experience. Horse bouncing around the gate, the noise, the leap out of the gate (and I was on a dog!!), the dirt, the pain in my legs and back, the other horses (and riders) bumping into me, my fingers stuck in the mane, the reins that felt like they were 3 inches wide (I think it was actually 1.5 inches wide) and just trying to keep my balance (and go straight). Of course Santos does this for a living, but he ain't no spring chicken, he has a real head-strong colt and any youngster is gonna react to that crowd, the noise, the rain, the tension...

doublete
Jun. 9, 2003, 07:57 AM
Yeah buryinghill- I'm kinda with you.. I won't even break my horses out of the gate- I'm afraid of dying then and there. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif
If you are on a 'rank' colt, or even a really competitive racer (I've got one with tons of heart, its impossible to hold him), you aren't in control. You can try to influence him/her one way or another, but no one is in control. Skybeauty said everything very well!

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.

drifting cloud
Jun. 9, 2003, 08:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Is it true that every year since 1998 has seen a horse take the Derby and the Preakness but not the Belmont?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not every year. It happened in

1998 (Real Quiet)
1999 (Charismatic)
2002 (War Emblem)
2003 (Funny Cide)

It also happened in 1997 with Silver Charm.

It didn't bother me that Funny Cide was on the lead in the Belmont. The fractions weren't very fast, so it wasn't like he was going to crash & burn from setting the pace. He just wasn't the best horse on that day.

Could all the lead-swapping he was doing indicate that he just wasn't comfortable on the track? I saw the "hitchy" steps that some people mentioned in the post parade. They didn't concern me. Sometimes, racehorses bounce around and side step and don't move as evenly as riding horses do.

"The power of acute observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

[This message was edited by drifting cloud on Jun. 09, 2003 at 11:14 AM.]

Anne FS
Jun. 9, 2003, 08:35 AM
There's a thread on this Racing forum called Funny Cide Wins the Preakness, and that thread has discussion on FC's multiple lead changes. People counted 13 lead swaps for him in that race and several people commented on it, so it's not something he just did on Saturday.

Anne FS
Jun. 9, 2003, 08:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fleur:
Is it true that every year since 1998 has seen a horse take the Derby and the Preakness but not the Belmont?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There've been 9 since Affirmed won the Triple Crown in 1978:

Spectacular Bid (1979)
Pleasant Colony (1981)
Alysheba (1987)
Sunday Silence (1989)
Silver Charm (1997)
Real Quiet (1998)
Charisma (1999)
War Emblem (2002)
Funny Cide (2003)

With all the foals lost in KY with MRLS, isn't 2004 the first year we'll be missing those lost in the Triple Crown races? Wonder if a TC winner was lost, or if we'll have a TC winner because the Belmont or Derby winner was lost and someone else will now come through?

flshgordon
Jun. 9, 2003, 08:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heather:
I want to like Emprie Maker. I really do. He's by one of my all time favorite stallions, Unbridled, and the stories of his mother are a total hoot. He's beautiful and classy, and and . . . and I just can't. Frankel is just such a loudmouthed classless boor. As I said on the other thread, If I'd had to listen to him say one more time that he always knew he had the best horse I was going to throw something heavy through my television. Frankel completely ruined any enjoyment I might recieve out of watching this lovely horse win.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

lifesabreeze
Jun. 9, 2003, 09:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne FS:
There's a thread on this Racing forum called Funny Cide Wins the Preakness, and that thread has discussion on FC's multiple lead changes. People counted 13 lead swaps for him in that race and several people commented on it, so it's not something he just did on Saturday.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



FC switched leads from his right to his left in deep stretch in the Derby and the Preakness. Otherwise he switched leads at the usual spots,into and out of the turns.

In the Belmont he was switching and cross-firing(cross cantering) out of the gate and into the first turn and down the backstretch. In the stretch he switched leads from right to left,then back to right near the wire.

Hopefully,all the switching in the Belmont was due to the slop.

Anne FS
Jun. 9, 2003, 09:36 AM
quote:

Originally posted by Heather:
I want to like Emprie Maker. I really do. He's by one of my all time favorite stallions, Unbridled, and the stories of his mother are a total hoot. He's beautiful and classy, and and . . . and I just can't. Frankel is just such a loudmouthed classless boor.
----------------------------------

That's crazy talk. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It's like if you have a jerk boss people then would root against you because your boss was a jerk.

Just like in showing or breeding, horses or dogs, breed to the best and admire the best NO MATTER who owns, trains or handles it.

Anne FS
Jun. 9, 2003, 09:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lifesabreeze:

FC switched leads from his right to his left in deep stretch in the Derby and the Preakness. Otherwise he switched leads at the usual spots,into and out of the turns.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There were 13 turns in the Preakness?

lifesabreeze
Jun. 9, 2003, 09:43 AM
He only switched 5 times in the Derby and Preakness.One extra switch in deep stretch.

Anne FS
Jun. 9, 2003, 09:50 AM
OK, I believe you. It's just that people said they taped the race and watched it while counting the changes and there were 13. Guess they should've watched closer! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

buryinghill1
Jun. 9, 2003, 10:59 AM
One of my alltime favorite racing photos...

http://www.championsgallery.com/Secretariat%20The%20Photo%20WM.jpg

Look at that crowd! And look at Big Red's ears mashed back against his head - running all out...

Anne FS
Jun. 9, 2003, 11:48 AM
Great photo, and just think, as he ran that race he was running faster and faster, each quarter FASTER than the one before. Imagine what that felt like to be on him!

On the ESPN Classic show they quoted someone as saying it was as though God had the reins that day, as though God whispered to Secretariat: Go.

Gives me chills.

Glimmerglass
Jun. 9, 2003, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne FS:
On the ESPN Classic show they quoted someone as saying it was as though God had the reins that day, as though God whispered to Secretariat: Go.

Gives me chills.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow - I had the SAME feeling when I too was watching the ESPN greatest athletes show on Saturday!

Buryinghill1, indeed that is one of those great pictures that captures for all of time an athlete at the top of their prime and without peer!

I still love the famed image of the two horses (names are totally escaping me right now!!) on the cover of My Racing Heart by Nan Mooney with the one biting at the other in the match race.

buryinghill1
Jun. 9, 2003, 12:15 PM
"... Bob Coglianese, took the picture during the stretch run of the 1983 Tremont Stakes at Belmont Park. The photo’s entitled “The Savage”, a term used when a horse gets so competitive he reaches over and tries to take a chunk out of his rival. What I didn’t know was that the horse on the outside, Late Prospector (the one doing the savaging) came across the wire first, but was — understandably — disqualified. The inside horse, Golden Derby, officially won the race. “The Savage” is one of my favorite racing photos. It perfectly captures the passion, danger, and intensity of the track. No one can look at that picture and tell me Thoroughbreds don’t care whether they win or lose..."
Nan Mooney

http://www.championsgallery.com/racephoto/fi/00000046.htm

Makes you wonder why so-competitive F-C wears a Figure-8 noseband

Heather
Jun. 9, 2003, 12:26 PM
I guess I'm not a big enough person to be able to like the horse anyway Anne. Heck, there are plenty of horses in my own sport I love, but can't root for, because of their connections. I'm willing to accept the small minded label. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

And the savage is one of my all time favorite photos. It just gives me chills every time I think about it. And we have a copy of the Secretariat photo, signed by Ron Turcotte, here in the house. We bought it at Rolex after our homebred, a Secretariat grandson, was born.

Glimmerglass
Jun. 9, 2003, 12:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buryinghill1:
... Bob Coglianese, took the picture during the stretch run of the 1983 Tremont Stakes at Belmont Park. The photo’s entitled “The Savage” ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, buryinghill1, for the link and reference!! It was going to kill me thinking of it tis afternoon. Gee, and people thought Mike Tyson was an original http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

buryinghill1
Jun. 9, 2003, 12:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glimmerglass: It was going to kill me thinking of it tis afternoon. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh the pressure. I saved a life. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 9, 2003, 12:36 PM
Well excuse me for being blunt.

Here's the way I look at it: A lot of you may find what I say to be arrogant, but I never posted I was an expert. When I said it's hard to analyze the sport without being an expert, that's exactly what I meant. I didn't say, "Without being an expert like ME ME ME!".

And I think it's dumb (you know who you are) when I said I didn't think Funny Cide was in the same class as past Triple Crown winners, and people get all mad at me for it. That's stupid.

Another point: I like eventing, but I know nothing about it. I enjoy surfing the different eventing forums and sometimes posting questions, but I'm not about to go all out and say what I thought should have been done, because plain and simple, I don't know what I'm looking at.

Why get so fussy over something you know next to nothing about?

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

DMK
Jun. 9, 2003, 12:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buryinghill1:
One of my alltime favorite racing photos...

Look at that crowd! And look at Big Red's ears mashed back against his head - running all out...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mine too! Guess that must be why I have it hanging on the wall, signed by Turcotte... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

And I say Just Say NONONO to mandatory participation in all 3 races. Secretariat took on newcomers in Preakness, and other than Sham, EVERY other horse in the Belmont either skipped the Preakness or both TC races. This isn't a new tactic, but still we have a standard by which all other horses are judged against eleven superior individuals.

Number 12 shouldn't get it any easier.

As one of the commentators on TVG said last night (as regards any change in the TC format), "The Triple Crown is what defines the sport. Why would you want to cheapen that?"

Amen.

Call your village. Their idiot is missing...

buryinghill1
Jun. 9, 2003, 12:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK: Guess that must be why I have it hanging on the wall, signed by Turcotte...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
If you EVER need a housesitter, I will do it for FREE http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JAGold
Jun. 9, 2003, 01:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soup From the Store:
Well excuse me for being blunt.

Why get so fussy over something you know next to nothing about?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Soup, I like you and I love your photographs, so please take this in the friendly spirit in which it is intended.

There is no reason to tell people that they don't know what they are talking about. Everyone is entitled to an oppinion, and it is good for all horse sports when people who aren't "insiders" become involved and care enough to have opinions. All horse sports need to expand their fan base in order to grow. And fans, by definition, are less involved than the principles. That's why I smiled yesterday when I listened to the very self important middle aged man standing behind me at the Upperville Grand Prix tell his wife and daughter that Maclain Ward's horse was a dangerous jumper... Hey, at least he dragged himself out to watch, bought a program, and is probably about to get talked into riding lessons for the kid.

You are getting a very special experience by working at the track -- and you have a different sort of knowledge than many people posting here. One of the best ways that you can be an ambassador for the sport you clearly care very much about is to try to teach people, rather than point out what they don't know. People will respect your knowledge more, and therefore learn more from you, if you share what you know kindly. This is true of all things in life. There is nothing wrong with correcting a mistake, but if you can do it gently (as in, "in racing, we use that term differently") then people will be more likely to listen to you. And since the point of this BB is to share ideas, that makes you a more effective communicator.

Plus, it's good to remember that you can learn from many different people with many different backgrounds. I was humbled by the father of a girl I used to ride with -- I'd written him off as knowing nothing about horses and politely ignored his observations about the lame horse we were jogging up. After all, horses don't go lame in their "back knee." But this one was off in his hock, not up front as I was guessing...and the orthopedic surgeon who'd dropped his daughter off for a lesson spotted it correctly.

Anyways, I really don't mean to preach and I do enjoy your posts.

And since I rarely post over here but did love watching the race -- can someone tell me how flexible the trainer's instructions or race plan typically are? How much is left up to the jockey's discretion based on how the race shapes up? --Jess

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 9, 2003, 01:51 PM
JA Gold: Tastefully said and much appreciated http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regular statements don't bother so much as when people get so upset and angry over something they see. Why not say something like, "Why did Santos send a horse like that?" rather than, "Well I think he gave the horse a terrible ride! And here's why...."

Even more laughable were the people who got so angry with me over a simple statement I made regarding Funny Cide not being as classy as horses like Affirmed or Seattle Slew. I notice no one pointed out their lack of politeness.

Anyway, regarding your question: A trainer tells the jockey how to warm up the horse, and sometimes will just say, "Ride how you think is best" (usually when the jockey knows the horse), or give special instructions like don't use the whip, keep him in front, etc. If something happens like the horse bolts, stumbles, something happens with another horse, that's where being a good rider comes in. The jockey will take the situation into their own hands and hopefully make the right choice.

It's my opinion that 80% of the time, the best jockeys will just let the horse run it's own race instead of trying to interfere, unless it's a horse that can't rate itself (or something similar). Hope that helps http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

[This message was edited by Soup From the Store on Jun. 09, 2003 at 04:59 PM.]

SkyBeauty
Jun. 9, 2003, 01:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JAGold:
And since I rarely post over here but did love watching the race -- can someone tell me how flexible the trainer's instructions or race plan typically are? How much is left up to the jockey's discretion based on how the race shapes up? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In most cases, the trainer will give the rider some idea about what he'd like him to do, but the final choices are usually left up to the rider, since so much depends on how the race sets up after the gates open. Exceptions are things like not trying to rate if the horse is a stone front runner, or not gunning for the lead on a real closer. Those types of things a trainer expects the jock to follow to the letter.
I guess a better way to put it is that a trainer usually tells the rider any particular rules about the horse that have to be followed, then gives him a general outline for the race strategy, and then the rider takes it from there, depending on what happens in the race.


~ Stephanie

If ignorance is bliss, why aren't a lot more people happy?

Glimmerglass
Jun. 9, 2003, 04:06 PM
It looks that there will be a very stong chance that the Travers Stakes in Saratoga on August 23rd will be another chance to see Empire Maker v. Funny Cide showdown.

Funny Cide is a forgone conclusion to race at his "second home" track for the Travers. Tagg has said that is the race he wants to win.

All indications point that Frankel will have Empire Maker in the Travers pre-race August 3rd, the Jim Dandy. It isn't too hard to also assume that Bobby is looking for further vindication by matching EM against Funny Cide to support his argument that he's had the better horse all along.

Add to that Ten Most Wanted looks to be a Travers entry wannabe at least right now.

What a great match up it will be as Funny Cide and Empire Maker will mature even more before that date. And if anyone thought that Belomont was a little bit pro-Funny Cide they haven't seen anything yet http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bring it on!

doublete
Jun. 9, 2003, 04:52 PM
Soup- I honestly don't know how to respond to either the earlier post or the reply to Jag's... But honestly I think Jag's point completely went over your head, by your reply.

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.

DMK
Jun. 9, 2003, 05:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soup From the Store:
Regular statements don't bother so much as when people get so upset and angry over something they see. Why not say something like, "Why did Santos send a horse like that?" rather than, "Well I think he gave the horse a terrible ride! And here's why...."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, Soup, let me try this a more direct way. If someone has an abrasive opinion that you might think is totally incorrect, what does it say about you if you return it tit for tat?

You are right in that an intelligent exchange of ideas consists of more than one's opinions, but that doesn't mean everyone always wants to have that sort of discourse, or is capable of that level of discussion. But I can tell you if you present a cogent, lucid argument and then top it off with an arrogant "you know nothing" type of statement, you might as well hang it up, because you are limited to preaching to the choir as soon as you belittle your opponent.

And you don't need to waste the electrons presenting well thought out ideas to the choir. The choir is already singing your tune. And maybe your opponent will not change his/her mind no matter how well thought out your argument. But all the other readers who were looking for some education might just think "you know, I didn't know that... Soup sure knows what she is talking about, and explained it well."

You just need to figure out which person you want to be. The one who shares her knowledge, or the one who slams people over the head with it.

Call your village. Their idiot is missing...

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 9, 2003, 05:07 PM
Then don't respond to it and let's stick to the subject of racing, shall we?

As for DMK: It didn't go over my head, and sorry if what I'm saying doesn't come out as being the friendliest.

Granted, my first post could have been nicer, sure. But the second one about Funny Cide's class was, I think, not very mean. I think my statement about a race being hard to analyze, unless you are an expert, made people think I was saying I'M an expert. Actually, not what I was saying at all. I've had statements I've made on this board be called stupid and everything else, so sorry if I'm not exactly happy right off the bat. I don't recall ever calling anyone on this forum stupid, yet I get blasted, whereas someone says something like that to me, and no one says anything.

I am just amazed at how many posts I've gotten saying, "You're only 17, what do YOU know?". I've seen some REALLY ignorant posts on this forum and I've answered quite politely only to get slammed by others who think they know more just because they have more years. So sorry if I seem a little irritated at first. It gets old after awhile.

I truly do like people like DMK who can say things in a nice manner without slamming, and they're the only reason I still post on this forum. Keep in mind, I'm the one who got it started, but I've been pretty disgusted with the attitudes on here.

But honestly....if someone has an attitude problem, so what? Let it go. Stop taking everything so seriously. And why don't you check out some of my other posts and consider, "Gee, she seems pretty nice in those. Maybe there's a reason she seems a little annoyed on this one?"

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

[This message was edited by Soup From the Store on Jun. 09, 2003 at 08:20 PM.]

Duffy
Jun. 9, 2003, 05:19 PM
I've been meaning to compliment Two Toofs on his/her post a page or two ago. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And Soup, it appears that you and DMK posted at the same time. I am in hopes that you will read her post and rethink your post?

"B***h in training"

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 9, 2003, 06:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buryinghill1:


Makes you wonder why so-competitive F-C wears a Figure-8 noseband<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most likely he wears the figure-8 to keep from flipping his soft palate.

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

doublete
Jun. 9, 2003, 06:37 PM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
All I can say, being young, you have to watch things that you do and say. This is all a learning experience, and telling someone to not 'take things so seriously' is NOT a good thing.
'Attitude problems' have no place on a public forum- sorry, that's just the way it is. Someone can read it wrong and get completely turned off for life- I think its very cool that the TC brought closet racing fans out of the wood work, so to speak.
The thing with the Internet- you may not have a second chance to apologize or explain your attitude. You HAVE to be mature, logical, and intelligent in your posts. And looking at other posts and saying "well someone else did it this way, so therefore I'm fine" is also not a good way of looking at it. If you want to look at it that way, then fine, but good luck- it won't get you far.

So we have to wait till August 3rd to see them race again??? Or maybe even the 23rd???

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 9, 2003, 06:56 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by *SERAPH*: Funny Cide was robbed of his hard-fought triple crown victory and America was robbed of a hero. In other words, I believe the jockey sent him from the gate with great urging and I did not see him check him once....

I personally will not watch another tc race as I am sick to my very heart at such crookedness.

Soup FTS writes; My apologies to all for my being so peevish earlier....to explain part of my attitude of late was in response to some private messages from other posters & to such remarks as the quote above. There is crookedness in all sports. However a lot of hard and honest working people pour their lives into their sport. I was asking in essence, if someone does not understand racing could they sit back and enjoy as a fan w/out casting dark accusations in areas in which they are unfamiliar. When I explained bits of terminology such as checking("slang" I think someone angrily said) I was only trying to clear misunderstandings. I will try not to be so cranky in the future or at least not let it show (not making excuses but the day starts at 3:45 a.m...NO ONE should have to get up before the clock has at least a 5 out front! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) and I hope the competition goes out of the posts and back onto the track where the fun is. How 'bout those Devils & Ducks...is anyone watching the Stanley Cup??

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

Portia98
Jun. 9, 2003, 07:29 PM
I think history generally gets it right in regards to TC winners. I really didn't think Funny Cide was in the same league as Affirmed, Slew and certainly not Secretariat, so I wasn't rooting for him to win it at all. I think the only time a horse didn't win the TC that really should have was Spectacular Bid. When the next super star horse comes along, the Crown will be won and it will be SOOOOO good!

Funny Cide is a very nice horse, and since he's a gelding, we'll be seeing plenty more of him down the road. Maybe he's our next Kelso or Forego...

*SERAPH*
Jun. 9, 2003, 08:25 PM
Soup from the Store---I appologize to Santos and his trainer and entourage if I falsely accused; I am by no means an expert on horse racing but I do know quite a bit about riding jumpers and event horses. I do know something about rating a horse.

However, after looking at other reasonable posts by other people (one MUST understand how incredibly disappointed I was at Funny Cide's race) I am willing to say perhaps I was hasty in my assertations. Afterall, though I've had horses off the track and have galloped them out, I've never raced. Therefore, perhaps I do not fully understand the power of the race horse and how he can haul you, no matter what (and especially in the precarious position of the jockey) to where he wants to go!

I still feel that had Funny Cide been controlable as in the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness he would have won...he had more heart than any other horse out there, IMHO.

And that is why Secretariat's owner wanted to give them his overgirth...she knows a legend when she sees one. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"The world needs Dreamers and the world needs Doers;
But above all, the world needs Dreamer's who Do."

Valkryie Warrior Woman-- Proud Member of the Thread Killers Clique!!!

fleur
Jun. 9, 2003, 09:27 PM
DMK said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
And you don't need to waste the electrons presenting well thought out ideas to the choir. The choir is already singing your tune. And maybe your opponent will not change his/her mind no matter how well thought out your argument. But all the other readers who were looking for some education might just think "you know, I didn't know that... Soup sure knows what she is talking about, and explained it well."

You just need to figure out which person you want to be. The one who shares her knowledge, or the one who slams people over the head with it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And SoupFTS, I think she absolutely hit the nail on the head. I admire your knowledge and experience at the track and wish I had a similar one (albeit not necessarily in racing--just somewhere involved with horses http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ). However, it really does turn one off from your posts when you act snide, self-righteous, and just generally knowing-it-all!

I'm not trying to be mean or rude, just agreeing with DMK that you have all the right tools with which to be an extremely interesting and knowledgeable poster. You just need to get rid of the idea that "what you know" is more than everyone else knows, because even if it is, it's a rude way of looking at things! Especially at 17 (not that a seventeen-year old can't have a lot of knowledge, but you should at least hold some respect for people who MIGHT have a bit more experience than you http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

CTNO
Jun. 10, 2003, 02:26 AM
I was just reading thru this thread, and I'd like to say that I think it's wonderful for the sport that so many people are intrigued by Funny Cide. I live just a bit north of Saratoga Springs, and I sincerely hope that Funny Cide and Empire Maker will meet again in the Travers Stakes. Funny Cide Fever is rampant here! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The post in this thread that best expresses what I understood to be the case about the Belmont is this one, which I believe was by "lifesabreeze" :
posted Jun. 08, 2003 11:26 PM
Funny Cide is rank and doesn't rate well. His connections would have preferred if ANY horse would have gone for the lead so FC could sit off the pace. Everybody else could keep their horses slower than FC, so he ended up on the front end.

FC wouldn't cooperate enough even for Santos to be able to hold Empire Maker inside of him. Bailey/EM sees Santos can't slow down,so he slows just enough to "switch lanes" and put EM outside and just a little behind FC. This moves FC down into the deeper water and forces him to feel pressured. Bailey said he knew he had FC beat when they entered the backstretch because of how rank FC was acting.

Santos said FC was acting like he didn't like the slop. He said he was climbing early in the race. Climbing is when a horse picks his head and front feet up too high,sometimes switching leads back and forth. They usually climb if water splashes their belly or they don't like dirt in their face. Climbing would make a rank horse even more difficult to control.

I hope this explains why FC was on the lead. The trainer nor the rider could have prevented it.
________________________________________________

I didn't just watch the race, I also watched the coverage afterwards, and Jose Santos said FC was not really handling the track, as well as being rank.

Something else that I recall, was what Robin Smullen said about FC after that fast work on the Tuesday before the race. She said that if she had tried to hold FC back, he just would have run faster. You could see that Santos was trying to hold FC at the beginning of the race, but FC was fighting him.

And "Soup from the Store" - remember that tones of voice can not be heard on message boards - when I first read your post re: FC not being in the same class as some of the past great horses, it was not clear to me that you only meant as TC winners. It really did sound as tho you were knocking FC and being a bit snotty.

drifting cloud
Jun. 10, 2003, 07:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And "Soup from the Store" - when I first read your post re: FC not being in the same class as some of the past great horses, it was not clear to me that you only meant as TC winners. It really did sound as tho you were knocking FC and being a bit snotty.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is exactly what I thought, too. That Soup was saying Funny Cide has no class and is a piece of sh** just because he ran 3rd in the Belmont.

Soup, the problem isn't what you are saying. Your information and experience is wonderful, but some people get put off by the tone you use sometimes.

"The power of acute observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

DMK
Jun. 10, 2003, 08:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *SERAPH*:
Soup from the Store---I appologize to Santos and his trainer and entourage if I falsely accused; I am by no means an expert on horse racing but I do know quite a bit about riding jumpers and event horses. I do know something about rating a horse.

However, after looking at other reasonable posts by other people (one MUST understand how incredibly disappointed I was at Funny Cide's race) I am willing to say perhaps I was hasty in my assertations. Afterall, though I've had horses off the track and have galloped them out, I've never raced. Therefore, perhaps I do not fully understand the power of the race horse and how he can haul you, no matter what (and especially in the precarious position of the jockey) to where he wants to go!

I still feel that had Funny Cide been controlable as in the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness he would have won...he had more heart than any other horse out there, IMHO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seraph, I think what people are trying to say is not that FC was totally unrateable, it's the "how" he rated that made the difference. Racehorses are no different than performance horses. The quality of step determines the outcome.

For instance, if you have a line that rides a tight 4, you know the horse that calmly collects, balances and doesn't fight his rider will ride the 4 much better than the horse who puts in the 4 with a fight. Sure, technically both jumpers laid down the 4 that was asked of them, but the one that is a partner with the rider stands the better chance of going clear and not tiring himself out. Nobody gets around all the time, everytime with a horse that fights them, even if the horse ultimately listens. And they can be on the greatest horse in the world, and that horse may just not be a player that day.

FC basically rode like the latter horse. He DID rate, in that his trainer said he was happy with the fractions Santos got out of him (they weren't too fast or too slow). It's how he fought Santos most of the first 6 furlongs that physically cost the horse the rest of the race, not the actual time he ran in. That is no different than any other sport, and its just a reflection on the character of the horse in that race, not the potential crookedness of his connections.

Besides, if that doesn't make sense, consider how quick the industry was to leap all over Santos for a quirky photo, yet not a peep about the favorite losing the Belmont. And I promise you that the one thing the racing industry takes more seriously than cheating to win is cheating to make a favorite lose. Strictly death penalty stuff.

An FYI to all those that thought that taking the lead was a bad strategy. Who knows if it was the right strategy for FC or not, but in the recent history of the Triple Crown there are 3 horses that are quite notable for taking the lead out of the gate and not relinquishing it for any amount of time: Secretariat, Slew and Affirmed. So it's not always a bad strategy... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

bh1 - are you SURE you wouldn't charge me one signed photo as payment for housesitting? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Soup, I can promise you that when I was younger, I thought myself quite smart. Most others thought me too smart for my own good. And I'm sure there are plenty others on the BB who think the same still applies. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Call your village. Their idiot is missing...

buryinghill1
Jun. 10, 2003, 09:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK: bh1 - are you SURE you wouldn't charge me one signed photo as payment for housesitting? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dearest DMK, ARE YOU OFFERING? I ACCEPT!

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 11, 2003, 02:11 PM
Thanks to all who pulled me in when I ran off http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.... I'm over-worked and cranky as all get out lately. The good news is M&M's make a great icecream sandwich that cures all, creamy w/ a great cookie. Let's hear it for DAIRY QUEEN that opened across road from Colonial Downs!!
Yes, I'm only 17 but I like the old adage of "keeping our horses in bad company & ourselves in w/ good"....so I work around some really great people and some top-notch horses: great teachers and mentors. Plus there are plenty of mess-up's around to watch (hopefully from a distance!) & learn by as well. I notice age does not exactly guarantee smarts http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. My trainer is great about letting things roll off his back, I'm trying.
A lot of times I ask questions to either the trainers I work for, my mom, or her boyfriend (a track vet) to see if my opinion is close to the mark but most of the time I write from the hip.
On different aspects of horse sports themselves: I guess another way of explaining the differance between pleasure horses/show horses and race horses are to look at cars...there are lots of street varieties for all sorts of drivers but handling those and driving/working on a FORMULA ONE would point out a much larger gap. Apples & oranges.
There's a ton to learn and self-help books are useless, it's all handed down & learned on the spot. It's amazing how one of these horses can expend the talents of a crew of people. They create an industry that thousands (at each track!) rely on to feed their families. And this industry NEEDS FANS, not just ourselves, to survive. It's no joke that we need heroes and TC winners. And movies about heroes (SEABISCUIT!! WAHOO!) to peak outside interest....not someone (mia) who couldn't let a few comments roll off her back on a public forum.
I think the public saw what happens when someone, like SANTOS, (who was carelessly accused of lighting up a horse) is thought to cheat. Racing is an incredibly monitored sport...it's filmed, it's samples are sent to the labs (not just the 1st & 2nd places but often a "special" is pulled on a horse that should have finished better than he did), the FEDS are involved (as it's a gaming/wagered on sport),..there are often insiders who may spill some beans. It's a lot cleaner than ever before w/ all sorts of measures protecting the betting public. Especially those big races.
Enough on this...have a few pics to post. Happy trails!

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

wanderlust
Jun. 11, 2003, 03:53 PM
soup- much appreciate your open-mindedness. As someone who has had to curb the inclination to speak (or type) before thinking, I can empathize with getting into a bit of hot water. You'll grow out of it, no worries. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

That said... be careful assuming and stating that people don't know anything. You are not the only one on the board who knows racing. Trust me. You are also not the only one who knows horses. Anyone who has been around horses for most of their life (which is most people on this board) will notice things about animal behavior that are not exclusive to racing. Anyone that has ridden TB's directly off the track will generally know the reactions they have to different stimuli. Anybody who has evented at the 3-day level will understand how you run the beginning of the steeplechase will directly affect the way the end of your steeplechase, along with the rest of your endurance phase. There is alot of crossover.

People may not know the correct racing terminology, but as observant and experienced horseman they still bring a great deal of knowledge to the table.

Edited to say that I just caught your comparison of "formula one" drivers vs. average everyday drivers to racing vs. all other equestrian sports, and you couldn't be farther off. The people who post on this board are not backyard yay-hoos that don't have the first idea how to rotate wormers, nevermind know what dex or lasix are. They are mostly top competitors who spend just as much time and effort keeping their horses at the peak of performance as racing stables do. There are many jumper and event trainers who very easily and successfully make the jump to training racehorses. I guess it is because they don't know anything about training top notch athletes. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[This message was edited by Master Tally on Jun. 11, 2003 at 07:01 PM.]

*SERAPH*
Jun. 11, 2003, 05:25 PM
Thank you, Master Tally! Well said.... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But we've all been 17 before!

"The world needs Dreamers and the world needs Doers;
But above all, the world needs Dreamer's who Do."

Valkryie Warrior Woman-- Proud Member of the Thread Killers Clique!!!

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 11, 2003, 07:24 PM
Thank You Master Tally for what appears to be putting words in my mouth. I had no idea I said all that! (MT's response:... be careful assuming and stating that people don't know anything. You are not the only one on the board who knows racing"). Wow, did I really say that?
And I assume nothing actually.
I love most all aspects of horses in sport and pleasure. I even love my pony who isn't much sport or pleasure. And I thoroughly enjoy watching others in their sports. When something's good, it's good...even mule pulls are neat. Mule pulls, dressage, mini's, jumping, endurance, racing, drafts, eventing, steeplchasing.....I stand by my apples & oranges statement. And it's OK w/ me if you disagree. And I make no apologies for my age either, just for getting snippy (understatement) earlier. Anyway, 17 year olds have not cornered the market on showing back-sides, wish we could leave age out of it. I'll probably show mine again before I'm 80, especially if I've missed my nap. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

DMK
Jun. 12, 2003, 08:43 AM
Soup, I had to say that I understood what you were saying, but I understand what Tally is saying as well. Yes, as a person who handled some fairly nice race horses on layup back in the dark ages, I can appreciate that a race horse is not your average equine. But as a person who spends some time in the company of world cup horses and riders, I can tell you that there isn't a whole lot of differencee between one highly trained athlete and another, just the skills needed to do the job. But excellence is excellence regardless of discipline.

So while I don't think that you meant it this way, it was quite easy to read this quote:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> On different aspects of horse sports themselves: I guess another way of explaining the differance between pleasure horses/show horses and race horses are to look at cars...there are lots of street varieties for all sorts of drivers but handling those and driving/working on a FORMULA ONE would point out a much larger gap. Apples & oranges. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And come away with this interpretation:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sure, you may actually have some familiarity with a show horse, but until you work with racehorses you basically don't have a clue what it takes to prepare a real athlete.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When in truth, someone who has been around the top levels of several disciplines understands that you must be extremely talented (and lucky) to be a top competitor or to bring along a top competitor in any discipline. Yes, apples and oranges, but if you have a green thumb, you can grow both, and it's not like the apple growers are intrinsically more talented than the orange growers. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And yes, we do bring up your age and that probably isn't fair. But I promise you it is in a more indulgent manner (which I grant, is probably just as annoying). I personally don't know why I wasn't killed by several people (parents included) when I was younger. But if I hadn't grown out of it, I am sure I would have been.

Call your village. Their idiot is missing...

Janet
Jun. 12, 2003, 09:50 AM
Better comparison might be between "formula 1 racing" and "world class rallying". Or "formula one racing" and "indy racing".
Or "Les vinght quatre heurs du Mans".

Not "the same" but lots of overlap.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

wanderlust
Jun. 12, 2003, 09:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soup From the Store:

Thank You Master Tally for what appears to be putting words in my mouth. I had no idea I said all that! (MT's response:... be careful assuming and stating that people don't know anything. You are not the only one on the board who knows racing"). Wow, did I really say that?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not putting words in your mouth, simply paraphrasing those that you have spoken. And yes, you did really say that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Why get so fussy over something you know next to nothing about?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In regards to your age... no one is knocking your knowledge. In fact, I think you have quite a bit of it. However, the condescening manner in which you choose to disseminate that knowledge and address the members of this board makes your age very obvious. That is why it is brought up constantly. There are plenty of teenage posters on this board who never have their age mentioned. Why? Because they craft their messages in a thoughtful and considerate manner that doesn't require them to become defensive, backpedal and make apologies. I encourage you to do the same.

lifesabreeze
Jun. 12, 2003, 11:24 AM
The difference between racehorses and other equine athletes is that they are taught,encouraged and rewarded for beating(getting in front of) another horse. They are in direct,horse against horse competition.

Most TB's are bred for competitiveness in addition to athletic ability. The fastest horse in the world is useless as a racehorse if they don't care whether they win or lose.Talent and conditioning alone won't win races. Race trainers have to encourage this horse against horse competitiveness and control it at the same time.

Someone posted (sorry,I don't remember who) that they didn't understand how FC couldn't be rated since they had no trouble rating their own TB. Racehorses usually rate well when they are not in direct competition with another horse.They will listen and relax for a rider. Put a horse next to them and it's a different story. FC is young and extremely competitive. He goes into 'beat the horse near me' mode when other horses get next to him.

Anyhow,what I'm trying to say is, horse to horse,eye to eye,competitiveness is different. It's another layer added or encouraged in a racing TB.

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 12, 2003, 02:07 PM
Sorry, Master Tally, if that didn't come through as I meant (about making comments about something you know next to nothing about).

But some of the posts really DID show that the person posting knew nothing about horse racing, but was making quick, irrational and some downright silly accusations.

I don't go on dressage forums talking about how badly a rider rode a horse, because I don't know anything about it. I have NO idea what I'm looking at, plain and simple.

You might also wonder why I got so nasty: You didn't see this, but I had been getting some pretty nasty private topics and was a tad fed up.

Master Tally: "However, the condescening manner in which you choose to disseminate that knowledge and address the members of this board makes your age very obvious. That is why it is brought up constantly." Okay, I agree, I could be nicer and will try. But did anyone see some of the posts on the topic from CallMyBluff Farm's post about starting a racehorse rescue organization? I think some of them sounded twelve. Actually, just petty. But, I guess since they are older, they are allowed.

And with that, that's the last I am posting on this subject. Otherwise we'll be stuck going in circles and this thread will get way longer than it should be.

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

[This message was edited by Soup From the Store on Jun. 12, 2003 at 05:19 PM.]

Freebird!
Jun. 12, 2003, 08:19 PM
Okay. SO I guess I DID manage to start a flame war here, but I truely didn't mean to. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif As I said before, we need to ALL respect each others opinions - no matter the posters age, experience level, or knowelage. I think the thing that looses ones respect for a post though is not what is said but how it is said - which can be a tricky thing online. Some posts I think read to be pretty snotty and or harsh, when the auther really didn't mean this at all. Of course there are some who do. At any rate, I guess we ALL need to be careful with what we say, and how we word things - myself included. Soup - I really didn't mean to make this thread get so out of hand here, however when I posted my first post here on this thread, I was unaware of any Private messages you were receiving - I don't send them myself, if it's something that can't be shared here on the BB, then I just refrain from saying it - I just wanted you to be aware that your post did come across as a bit harsh, especially to those new to racing. However that takes nothing away from the fact that you are a very smart young woman, who takes beautiful pictures, and on the norm, makes insightful and knowlagable posts about racing. As for your age, I really could care less, one way or the other. Thats one reason why I like posting on an online BB - it puts us all on one level, no matter the sex, age, race or economic background (though I tend to look like an idiot because I can't spell http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) I try to give everyone the same level of respect no matter who they are.

I hope we can ALL move on from hashing and rehashing all this crap, and move on to what is important here: The horses!!

~*~Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me either. Just pretty much leave me the hell alone.~~ Straight from the horse's mouth ~*~

wanderlust
Jun. 12, 2003, 09:54 PM
Thanks for a mature and well thought-out response, Soup. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As far as CMB's thread, there were some personal dymanics going on there between several posters that extend way outside the scope of just what was posted. It isn't that they were allowed to be nasty because the posters were older; it was more that there was so much more going on than what was readily apparent and innocent bystanders, myself included, decided to stay out of it.

But don't worry, I call out adults for being mean, too. It is not limited to those younger than me. I am all about equal-opportunity. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FairWeather
Jun. 13, 2003, 08:53 AM
[QUOTE] Okay, I agree


nevermind...

[This message was edited by FairWeather on Jun. 13, 2003 at 01:51 PM.]