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Wonder
Jul. 21, 2003, 05:23 PM
From bloodhorse.com

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=17051

Sad fate for a champion http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

*Wonder*

"What made her great destroyed her"

Wonder
Jul. 21, 2003, 05:23 PM
From bloodhorse.com

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=17051

Sad fate for a champion http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

*Wonder*

"What made her great destroyed her"

fernie fox
Jul. 21, 2003, 05:47 PM
This is absolutely digusting.

Why does'nt the racing industry sell these horses to Japan with return to US.clauses when they are of no further use.

I would not send my worst enemy there.They just don't think the same way that most of us here do.

Please don't tell me these big farms do not know the fate of horses they send to Japan.It has been common knowledge for years that these poor animals end up pulling carts and being starved,or slaughtered in terrible conditions.

They need to clean their act up.

I am glad this story was brought out for all to see.

It is time these owners that export their horses there, are outed.

It's all down to the almighty dollar.

fernie fox
"I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound".

can't re-
Jul. 21, 2003, 06:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I am glad this story was brought out for all to see.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So am I.



Very sad..... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Glimmerglass
Jul. 21, 2003, 06:54 PM
Simply REPUGNANT!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

It makes me ill to think that simply because he wasn't a successful breeding stud, as they desired, that he was simply disposed of. Who gives anyone that right? He made millions for owners and this is what he gets in return when the dollars - make that Yen - stop rolling in? Actually it likely wasn't even a monetary issue.

They have to save that oh so precious "face" .. the embarrassment of a horse investment gone sour.

I suppose these sob's would have had all the KHP retirement horses - like Cigar - as dinner long ago. The Brits aren't perfect but I would bet my last dollar this wouldn't happen in England by comparison!

I concur that thankfully someone wrote this story as I can only hope that JS Company (the Japanese group that started the spiral downward) will be shunned from any public events and stubbed at any Kentucky stable.

fernie fox
Jul. 21, 2003, 06:56 PM
This wonderful boy won nearly 4 million dollars for his owners.

No further comment.

fernie fox
"I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound".

caryledee
Jul. 21, 2003, 07:01 PM
This just makes me so angry!! I can't get over the stupidity of that decision either...its all about money, and yet someone HAD to know that a Derby winner and a Champion is worth more alive in the US than his per price pound. Why wouldn't they offer him for sale here? It just seems so senseless! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
I wonder what will happen to War Emblem??

LaurieB
Jul. 21, 2003, 07:28 PM
What a tragic end for such a wonderful horse. I agree with Glimmerglass, the decision probably had less to do with money than it did with saving face. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Tha Ridge
Jul. 21, 2003, 08:38 PM
I don't see why the wouldn't have tried to sell him back to the US? I'm sure quite a few farms would've been interested in purchasing him. Sick, either way. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

- L.

Je suis un salamander. J'entrerai dans le feu mais je ne brûlerai pas.

Jaguar
Jul. 21, 2003, 08:40 PM
I fully agree with what has already been stated on this topic,
He won nearly 4 million dollars for his owners and all they could do to thank him was sell him to a country that has long been known to abuse and slaughter animals when their money making use for them is complete? That hardly seems fair and seems quite selfish on the owners behalf.

Mabey this is comming from the fact that no amount of money is worth my horse if i know he is not going to be going to good hands (possibly with a buy-back clause). I just could never imagine sending my horse off somewhere known for such animal cruelty after all he has taught me.

Disgusting in my opinion

"I hope you will grow up to be gentle and good, and never learn bad ways, do your work with good will, lift your feet up well when you trot, and never bite or kick even in play."
-Duchess, Black Beauty, Anna Sewell

Lauruffian
Jul. 21, 2003, 10:15 PM
Oh. My. God.

Ferdinand's 1986 Derby was the first I watched, taped, and studied. When I first moved to California in 1987, I went to Santa Anita and watched Ferdinand win the Goodwood Handicap. A few months later, I watched him defeat Alysheba in the San Bernadino handicap. He was a gorgeous horse, and my mom (the decidedly nonhorsey type) still talks about him and how lovely he was, the best looking horse she'd ever seen.

I have nice close-up photos of Ferdinand in my albums from the races. I have Bill Shoemaker's autograph on one of them.

I adored this horse.

I think I'm going to be sick.

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

I used to think the world was against me. Now I know better...some of the smaller countries are neutral.

Two Toofs
Jul. 22, 2003, 04:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fernie fox:

It is time these owners that export their horses there, are outed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you'd read the article thoroughly, you'd see that it was his owner/breeder who was trying to get him back to the states and resulted in this story being found out.

The racing industry is the one who has published this story. No one is trying to hide anything nor do they need to be 'outed'.

Said Dell Hancock:

"That's just disgusting," said Dell Hancock, whose family operates Claiborne Farm, upon hearing the news of Ferdinand's likely fate. "It's so sad, but there is nothing anyone can do now except support John Hettinger's efforts to stop the slaughter of Thoroughbreds in this country. That wouldn't change anything in Japan...to have this happen to a Derby winner is just terrible."

His caretaker at the farm in Japan said:
"I want to get angry about what happened to him," Kaibazawa added. "It's just heartless, too heartless."

Gato Del Sol was saved from a fate similiar to that of Exceller by his breeder:

"Standing at Stone Farm, Gato Del Sol never lived up to expectations at stud, although he did sire some useful horses. He was sold to stand in Germany beginning in 1993, as it was hoped that European breeding would nicely compliment the strong turf and distance aspects of his pedigree. Six years later, after hearing the disturbing news of Exceller's untimely death in a Swedish slaughterhouse, the Hancocks bought Gato Del Sol back and immediately pensioned him. The Derby winner now enjoys his days in retirement, spending his time in a paddock at his birthplace and enjoying the attention of visiting fans."

Acting like the racing industry has the market cornered on heartless members isn't going to do any good here, and it's extremely unfair to paint the entire industry with the same brush. And in fact, the racing industry is doing more than any other right now to stop the slaughter of horses in this country and most involved do NOT want to see this type of thing happen.

Joint statement issued by the Jockey Club, NTRA and TOBA:
"In recent months bills have been introduced in the House of Representatives that would outlaw the slaughter of horses for human consumption.

Though not our intention to become involved in any political maneuvering, we felt it incumbent on us to make a statement concerning our beliefs on horse slaughter. We are definitively opposed to the slaughter of Thorough-breds and urge all those involved in the Thoroughbred industry to support our ever- expanding rescue and adoption efforts and to work together to find humane means of dealing with the problems presented by Thoroughbreds no longer suitable for racing or breeding."

From the Director of Fasig-Tipton, Jockey Club Member, and trustee for the NYRA, John Hettinger:

Where would all the horses go? (http://www.saplonline.org/Legislation/ahspa/where_would_all_the_horses_go.htm)

We're not a bunch of evil little trolls cackling & rubbing our hands together for an extra couple hundred of dollars and quite frankly, as a member of the industry, I'm getting a little sick and tired of being painted as such. What likely happened to Ferdinand is horrifying and heartless, but blaming this on his owner, who tried to get him back and then resulted in this story being reported, is pretty heartless as well.



Ask yourself this - What has your discipline/industry/horse community done to prevent slaughter lately? Most breed industries won't even declare slaughter as unnecessary, calling it a 'necessary evil'.

From the horse.com http://www.thehorse.com/viewarticle.asp?fid=4171&dpt=5
Horse Slaughter Legislation

Quote:

"A bill to ban the slaughter of horses in the United States as well as the transportation of horses to slaughter has been re-introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives, only this time there is a new player in the game. The New York Racing Association (NYRA) has gone on record as being in full support of the bill."

"In a news release, the SAPL said that the legislation had the backing of horse industry organizations, "including the New York Racing Association (NYRA), National Thoroughbred Racing Association (NTRA), and Breeders' Cup."

In contrast, from the same article:
""The AAEP recognizes that the processing of unwanted horses is currently a necessary aspect of the equine industry, and provides a humane alternative to allowing the horse to continue a life of discomfort and pain, and possibly inadequate care or abandonment."

"In addition, the AAEP recognizes that the human consumption of horse meat is a cultural and personal issue and does not fall within the purview of the association, whose mission is the care of the health and welfare of the horse throughout its life."

Elsewhere, the American Horse Council states:
"...leading equine veterinary and regulatory organizations such as the American Association of Equine Practitioners, the American Veterinary Medical Association, and the USDA have experts who make professional recommendations and enforce regulations, ensuring that horses destined for human consumption are treated humanely and with dignity."

The APHA and AQHA have also taken pro-slaughter positions. The APHA even testified in favor of slaughter legislation in TX. So whether or not you personally are agreeable or not to the slaughter of horses, be sure that you know who is doing what to either prevent or continue slaughter of horses before whipping out that broad brush.


So here you have the JC, the NTRA, the NYRA, and the TOBA speaking out against slaughter. And you have the AAEP, the AHC, the AQHA and APHA for it. Things aren't perfect in the racing industry, but we are doing more as a group to end slaughter than any other breed industry.

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

pcwertb
Jul. 22, 2003, 05:53 AM
My computer would not allow me access to the story regarding Ferdinand....what exactly ended up happening to him? (Guess we have a filter at work so it would not let me open....)

Beth Davidson
Black Dog Farm
Connemaras & Sport Horses

Glimmerglass
Jul. 22, 2003, 06:05 AM
Two Hoofs I think you are trying to make this more into a US slaughter issue which it isn't.

It was also a little hard to read your post and discern where you were taking excerpts from article(s), quotes/input from others, and then inserting your points.

The issue here was a horse of significant distinguished feats that set him apart from 99% of all other horses. He was imported into Japan a well-known country which makes negligible attempts to save horses after the money-making purpose is done. Those facts have zero to do with US slaughter.

What I think many people lament is that fact that a horse such as Ferdinand should've been afforded a certain higher level of consideration. Had they offered the horse back to any party in the US market there would've been takers.

Nothing whatsoever suggested he was ill, in pain, diseased, etc. - let alone sterile! Therefore an unnatural death of such a well-liked, desired, and productive horse is the disgusting aspect.

Hmm ... my wealthy daughter doesn't sound as good as I thought she would on that Stradivarius violin .. oh well toss it in the fireplace

Lord Helpus
Jul. 22, 2003, 06:13 AM
We can all be part of the solution:

'Old Friends' May Bring Back Strike the Gold, Sea Hero
by Steve Haskin
Date Posted: 7/21/03 2:08:31 PM
Last Updated: 7/21/03 10:11:00 PM


The wheels are in motion to bring Kentucky Derby (gr. I) winner Strike the Gold, as well as Derby winner Sea Hero, back to the United States from Turkey, where both have been standing at stud.
The project is headed by Kim Zito, wife of Strike the Gold's trainer Nick Zito, and Michael Blowen, former operations director for the Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation, who has gone out on his own and founded Old Friends, an organization to find homes for retired stallions.

After leaving the TRF, Blowen moved to Midway, Ky. where he opened a small horse memorabilia store called Hoofprints. When Kim Zito called and told him she was interested in getting Strike the Gold back, he thought it was a great idea. Blowen is working with Kentucky attorney Richard Vimont, who was attorney for John Gaines for many years and now works with Rick Trontz of Hopewell Farm, who has donated a portion of the farm as a home for Old Friends' retired stallions.

Blowen and Vimont plan to meet shortly with Lane's End's Bill Farish in the hope of using his father's (William Farish III) political influence before negotiations begin with the Turkish Jockey Club. Farish currently is serving as U.S. ambassador to Great Britain.

Blowen, a former movie critic and entertainment writer for the Boston Globe, had worked part-time at Suffolk Downs in order to be around the horses, while owning a few bottom-line claimers. After retiring from the Globe he was offered a job with the TRF, for whom he worked for a year and a half before going out on his own.

"I had once written a story on an old horse named Saratoga Character," Blowen said. "Kim felt so sorry for the horse she bought him and eventually had him sent to the TRF's farm at the Blackburn Correctional Facility between Lexington and Midway, Ky. I eventually left the TRC, feeling I could raise more money on my own. I opened my little memorabilia store in Midway and donated 50% of the profits to horse retirement. I came up with the idea to have a retirement facility for old stallions, and I wanted to name the organization Old Friends from the title of Barbara Livingston's book. I called Barbara and got her OK, as well as the OK of the Blood-Horse (whose Eclipse Press published the book). Last week, we started up our web site, Oldfriendsequine.com."

About a week ago, Blowen received a call from Kim Zito, who told him she had heard about his organization and was in the process of trying to get Strike the Gold returned from Turkey.

"He's getting older now, and I don't want to see him go to slaughter when he's finished being a stallion," Zito said. "I had been talking to someone from Turkey and I asked him what they do to stallions who have outlived their usefullness. He said, 'We eat them.' That was very upsetting, and when I told Nick what I wanted to do he was very excited about it. I tried to contact the Turkish Jockey Club, but the farm manager was busy in a meeting and I couldn't get in touch with him. That's when I called Michael and told him about my idea. He said he would also contact (Sea Hero's trainer) Mack Miller to see if he wanted to get involved with bringing Sea Hero back from Turkey when he is retired from stud duty. Now that Michael has gone full throttle with this, his ultimate goal is to raise enough money every year to buy back one stallion a year from overseas and bring them to the farm.

"Strike the Gold will be the first stallion. Our main concern is figuring out a way to negotiate with the Turkish Jockey Club in a way where they don't ask a ton of money for him, just because they think we're willing to pay anything. All the money will be coming strictly from donations. With everything that's happening in the world now, it would be a nice gesture on their part if they worked with us on this."

Blowen, who is in the process of looking at other prospective sites for a farm of their own, has some interesting plans in store. "Once we're sure we can get Strike the Gold, we're going to have a grass roots campaign and form sort of a reverse syndicate," he explained. "We're going to sell certificates for $50 each, signed by Nick Zito. So for 50 bucks, you can own a Kentucky Derby winner, and feel good about bringing him back here from Turkey. We're going to have a fundraiser (on July 23) at Hopewell Farm. It's going to be a lot of fun, and we've gotten great response so far, and a lot of support from the racing and breeding industry. A horse like Strike the Gold will be a terrific tourist attraction, as would Sea Hero and other famous retired stallions. Our goal is to have our own place ready by next year's Derby. We're planning on having 10 2-acre paddocks. On each paddock will be the logo of the farm where the horse last stood in the United States, the horse's race record, and the colors of his silks. And each horse will have his own TV monitor that shows replays of his biggest races. This is a great time, with Seabiscuit putting the emphasis back on the horses. If we can get Strike the Gold back it'll send chills down people's spines."

All Kim Zito can do now is wait and hope. "I've got my fingers crossed," she said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I CAN spell, I just can't type and I am too blind to proofread InfoPop's teeny tiny font. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

NMS
Jul. 22, 2003, 06:40 AM
Lordhelpus,

That is a fantastic plan. I'll buy my share now!!

Just in case anyone is interested in the Hettinger connection to the article, two years ago he started Blue Horse Charities. This non profit organization takes donations at the Fasig Tipton Sales and then "pools" the funds to distribute them to other non profit groups that perform rescue, rehab and placement of these at-risk horses into new homes.

I can honestly tell you that without their support CANTER Ohio could not be able to help the amount of horses we take out of Thistledown and Beulah Park. In our two years we have taken over 200 horses that are at risk and found homes for over 160.

Please do go to Blue Horse Charities at www.bluehorsecharities.org (http://www.bluehorsecharities.org) to learn more.

Nancy

www.canterohio.org (http://www.canterohio.org)

fernie fox
Jul. 22, 2003, 06:41 AM
Actually ,I did read the whole story.

The owners did too little too late.

Tb industry saying, they back trying to prevent Slaughter is ridiculous.
What do they intend to do with all their horses that can't make it on the track?.

I am not against humane slaughter.

Why not put their money[I dont think they are too hard up],into building,an American owned,humane slaughter house?.

I'm fed up with hearing the two slaughter houses here in the US. are foreign owned.

There are so many unwanted horses out there,and many people breeding more.They all have to end up somewhere.

Time for them[TB breeders] to take more responsibility for the unfortunate by-products of their "SPORT".In fact I think all breeders should take more responsibility for there animals.



On Aug.2nd,I am going to another auction that will have TBs there.They are racing throw-outs,donated to a place that sells them off to whoever has a few hundred bucks.It makes me sick when I see 20 year old horses sold as barrel racers ect.

This is why I believe in humane slaughter.

If they ban slaughter here,they will make "The Last Ride" of these noble animals far worse than what is happening now.

Slaughter ships to France ,Japan where ever.

Live shipping to slaughter[and I mean packed on ships,alive to be slaughtered elsewhere]is horrific.

I don't think the trip to Mexico would be much better.

I wish to god I knew the answers to these problems.

Seabiscuit being released this week will be a great booster to horse racing.I hope they put the good PR.from this movie to good use.

fernie fox
"I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound".

Holly Jeanne
Jul. 22, 2003, 06:58 AM
I'm going to go home and hug my ReRun horse.

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif

drifting cloud
Jul. 22, 2003, 07:13 AM
Well, this article just ruined my day. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Ferdinand won the Kentucky Derby, was Horse of the Year, and earned over $3.7 million. He deserved a good life for as long as he lived.

What happened to him is totally sickening. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

Beth -- a reporter tried to track down Ferdinand, who went to stand at stud in Japan several years ago (but he wasn't a very successful sire). The reporter got the runaround for a while, but it seems that Ferdinand went to slaughter sometime in 2002.

"There are three kinds of men. The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." - Will Rogers

pcwertb
Jul. 22, 2003, 07:30 AM
I'd think they would get more money for these stallions if their previous owner's (Like Strike the Gold's former owner/trainer) and offered them 1k to buy them back, plus the 5k it will cost to ship them home. They can't bring that much at slaughter, and a much better ending for a horse that has done so much for this industry!

Beth Davidson
Black Dog Farm
Connemaras & Sport Horses

Flashy Gray
Jul. 22, 2003, 07:32 AM
Posted on the Off Course thread on this as well, but of course there are more "industry folks" over here and the posts are interesting.

Toofs makes some good points, and the pro- v. anti-slaughter issue has been hashed out here before.

That said, I know that racing is a business. I know that tough decisions have to be made and that I personally get sentimental.

But HONEST TO GOD, Ferdinand won the DERBY. He was HORSE OF THE YEAR. He was Shoemaker's last DERBY WINNER.

Are those accomplishments MEANINGLESS????

I'm sorry. It seems to me that the reputation of the Japanese racing industry regarding "retiring" horses is fairly well-known. Why wasn't there a buy-back clause or a retirement clause? It just seems to me that the inquiry into his whereabouts was too little too late.

Dammit, I'm just sick at the thought of this.

libgrrl
Jul. 22, 2003, 07:36 AM
I had naively thought that the sad end of Exceller would ensure that this never happened again to one of the sport's notables.

Guess I was wrong... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Heather
Jul. 22, 2003, 07:43 AM
I'm no racing expert, but I do try to keep my level of knowledge up, and I simply had NO idea that the Japaneses racing industry had this "reputation." I am just totally sick about this, because the horse deserved better.

Now I'm starting to hyperventilate about other stallions I know are over there. Wait, Sunday Silence passed away already, right? Or was he just sick? I remember he was ill, but my sleep deprived brain can't remember if he died or not. Anyone know how my favorite big black horse is doing--never thought I'd say this, but I guess part of me hopes he succumed to his illness. Better that than the fate poor Ferdinand met.

When can I buy a certificate for Sea hero? He was the only Derby winner I ever picked . . .

Two Toofs
Jul. 22, 2003, 07:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
Two Hoofs I think you are trying to make this more into a US slaughter issue which it isn't.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but the US owners are still put to blame, instead of the folks that actually slaughtered the horse. We are accused of needing to be 'outed' and doing 'too little too late'. HOGWASH. Nothing gets my hackles up more, especially when there are so many of us in the industry that are busting our humps to change things. Those of us in the industry mind you, not folks throwing stones in glass houses.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
It was also a little hard to read your post and discern where you were taking excerpts from article(s), quotes/input from others, and then inserting your points.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what the quotation marks are for.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The issue here was a horse of significant distinguished feats that set him apart from 99% of all other horses. He was imported into Japan a well-known country which makes negligible attempts to save horses after the money-making purpose is done. Those facts have zero to do with _US slaughter_.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the original Japanese stallion owner did make attempts to find him a retirement home. And someone besides them was breeding him prior to his apparent demise.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
What I think many people lament is that fact that a horse such as Ferdinand should've been afforded a certain higher level of consideration. Had they offered the horse back to any party in the US market there would've been takers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As should any horse regardless of their accomplishments on the track. For a horse like Ferdinand there are many takers, but no one wants little red mares that have earnings of $500. Because they are not big enough and not the right color. And like the article posted about bringing back Strike the Gold, it doesn't matter how many or how often the industry tries to do right by their horses. We still are considered the evil of the horse industry so often on these boards. Gets old. I could sit here and list examples of horses from other disciplines being treated horrifically and sent to slaughter after prominent careers as well, but I'm taking care of my house and not trying to make myself feel better by tearing down someone elses.

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

Two Toofs
Jul. 22, 2003, 07:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fernie fox:


Tb industry saying, they back trying to prevent Slaughter is ridiculous.
What do they intend to do with all their horses that can't make it on the track?.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try reading the link posted above entitled "Where would all the horses go?"

What is your industry group? What have they done to prevent slaughter of their horses if they are unsuitable for their intended discipline or need to be retired?

You have rehabbing OTTBs under your handle. You'd do well to learn to have a little respect for those actually in the industry who do the same. Because frankly, I don't know a soul who would give you the time of day coming on to the backside with that type of attitude towards the industry. And rightly so.

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

Galileo1998
Jul. 22, 2003, 07:50 AM
Heather - Sunday Silence did die last year. He was pretty much a hero in Japan and lived in luxury until his death.
I am just sick to hear about Ferdinand, but I don't think we can place any blame on his American owners for what happened. Many other well known stallions have gone to Japan and not been a great success, but have been sold back to their country of origin. When you sell any horse, you just never know for sure what might happen.

"I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Alagirl
Jul. 22, 2003, 07:58 AM
Many thoughts...

It is not the bad Japanese People, or Turks...at least they are honest about it!

It is not the little guys who bust their humbs to better the situation.

It is not the foreign owned Slaughter houses - to my information they have higher standarts in animal wellfare and cleanliness than domestic cattle slaughter operations - where we all get our Burgers from.

To a high degree we have to point the fingers at the big guys, laughing all the way to the bank, putting the millions in their account...

I could be wrong, but after one season of covering - say - twenty mares for 30-35 grands a pop, one should figure the stallion has earned enough money for a 401K account! In his name!

Why the Japanese breed horses is beyond me - I would guess they'd better put up a golf course where the farm is and buy some property in Australia...or better yet, just lease the critters for a few seasons!

Time to kick the double standart and face the facts.

drifting cloud
Jul. 22, 2003, 08:05 AM
Heather -- Sunday Silence is gone. I can't remember if he died on his own or was euthanized, but he was sick for a while and he is gone now.

"There are three kinds of men. The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." - Will Rogers

Flashy Gray
Jul. 22, 2003, 08:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> We still are considered the evil of the horse industry so often on these boards. Gets old. I could sit here and list examples of horses from other disciplines being treated horrifically and sent to slaughter after prominent careers as well, but I'm taking care of my house and not trying to make myself feel better by tearing down someone elses. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Toofs, I am a casual racing fan, had some exposure to the racing industry as a teen (although after being in Saratoga a few days ago I am harboring wild unrealistic fantasies of ditching the desk career and getting a job at the track. NOT. Guess Saratoga will do that to you).

I come over to this board to read posts from those who are in the industry who can give the real scoop. I appreciate your irritation at those who bash the industry. I know I hate it when the h/j industry is bashed and accused of all sorts of crap.

I will delicately say that what is so shocking about this story is that Ferdinand reached the pinnacle of success in the sport and yet he still met this fate.

Is it unfair to single out one horse when there are so many out there, little red mares who haven't won but $500? Yes, perhaps. But you have to start somewhere.

Can anyone here discuss some of the details of these high-end stallion sales? Are "retirement clauses" the norm, or the exception?

Two Toofs
Jul. 22, 2003, 08:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flashy Gray:

I will delicately say that what is so shocking about this story is that Ferdinand reached the pinnacle of success in the sport and yet he still met this fate. [quote]

It is equally shocking to myself and many, many, MANY folks in the industry as well, I guarantee you.

[quote]
Is it unfair to single out one horse when there are so many out there, little red mares who haven't won but $500? Yes, perhaps. But you have to start somewhere.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, but we (the racing industry) have already started there. We are struggling to see that all horses off the track have a fair shot at a new life. I don't know how the industry could make it any clearer than it does. Whether or not people choose to listen is another thing.

I'm grateful that you can appreciate how PISSED you can get when someone is trying to stick a red hot poker in the eye of an industry every time anything at all comes up that is less than pleasant without giving any credit where credit is due and whipping out the old broad brush of sanctimony. Look at all of the expressions of sorrow from folks around the world in reaction to this story. How do you think that makes the owner of the horse, who tried to get him back, feel? Good lord, way to kick a man when he's down, huh?

And for heaven's sake, anyone who has ever sold a horse cannot dare to point fingers. We all know that a buy-back clause is only worth as much as the piece of paper it is written on. Imagine trying to enforce it overseas? And I can tell you right now that most people probably don't realize, until now, that this happens to horses in Japan. I, for one, thought they would only be interested in slaughtering drafts because that is what I understand the preference is there. We've all been told these stallions are treated like Kings in Japan.

The retirement program for horses at our track was started by a groom here. I've never seen anyone from outside the industry helping out, but you can bet this backside will be there to lend a hand whenever it is needed.

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

Flashy Gray
Jul. 22, 2003, 08:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> And for heaven's sake, anyone who has ever sold a horse cannot dare to point fingers. We all know that a buy-back clause is only worth as much as the piece of paper it is written on. Imagine trying to enforce it overseas? And I can tell you right now that most people probably don't realize, until now, that this happens to horses in Japan. I, for one, thought they would only be interested in slaughtering drafts because that is what I understand the preference is there. We've all been told these stallions are treated like Kings in Japan. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All good points.

I re-read the article in BH again. And no, we shouldn't be passing unconditional judgement on the American industry:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> After efforts by the farm staff to place Ferdinand with a riding club failed, he passed into the hands of a Monbetsu, Japan, horse dealer named Yoshikazu Watanabe and left the farm Feb. 3, 2001. No attempt was made to contact either the Keck family or Claiborne Farm. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watanabe is the real 'villan' in this sad tale. I'm reserving judgement on the folks at Arrow Stud but here's my question: why oh why didn't they contact someone ANYONE in the U.S., recognizing that the horse's history could make him a valuable commodity over here? That SOMEONE in the U.S. would pay to ship him back here?

The poor guy was failed on so many levels.

cgn38
Jul. 22, 2003, 09:45 AM
This is horrible, but unfortunately retired race horses end up in slaughterhouses in this country way too often. I think it is equally horrible whether it is Ferdinand or a no name $4000 claimer. I blame the money hungry people in the racing industry (our country and Japan)who lack the integrity to be responsible for their horses for their entire lifespan. I only hope that this tragedy further motivates more people to make a solid committment to the welfare of their horses.

Tiramit
Jul. 22, 2003, 10:15 AM
This saddens me. Not only for Ferdinand, but for all mistreated horses. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Two Toofs and others,

As an "industry" outsider (jumper rider) but long-time lover of the TB breed, I would like to know how you hope other horse sport participants can help support this cause?

Obviously this would go beyond just taking in and working with OTTBs, which is something I have done for the last 20 years. I'd like to do more. What do you suggest?

fernie fox
Jul. 22, 2003, 10:48 AM
I was involved with the racing/Show jumping and eventing industries for many years prior to coming to US.


I do feel that the Owners are responsible.

In recent years there have been many "wonderful"organizations Stepping up to the plate to deal with this problem.

I am glad to see that the racing industry itself,in the last couple of years, is now getting involved. They should be thoroughly embarrassed for not doing so before now.

Thanks to media coverage nowadays,these atrocities will not be swept under the rug anymore. I hope.

Unfortunately there will always be some horses that fall through the system.

I can do very little ,as so many other small folks,I can only help one or two at a time.

Canter and all of the other great organizations are bursting at the seams working with these horses.I hope the TB breeders and owners are generous in their donations to them.

Maybe it would be a good idea to suggest that all race tracks,gambling facilities donate say 10 percent of their income to a fund.

That money could be used to set Canter type organizations in every state that makes money from these animals.I include greyhound racing in this idea.

THe day that I STOP seeing TBs crushed into trailers,going from one rinky dink auction to the next, on their horrible trip out of Florida Will be the day I stop being concerned about it.

I really admire the organizations that do this job,they will have a special place in heaven as far as I'm concerned.

fernie fox
"I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound".

Alagirl
Jul. 22, 2003, 11:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Watanabe is the real 'villan' in this sad tale. I'm reserving judgement on the folks at Arrow Stud but here's my question: why oh why didn't they contact someone ANYONE in the U.S., recognizing that the horse's history could make him a valuable commodity over here? That SOMEONE in the U.S. would pay to ship him back here?

The poor guy was failed on so many levels.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


How do you figure.

It probably never crossed the man's mind that somebody would want to buy a washed up stallion - heck, that's why he went to Japan...

And when you look at the traffic of TBs around the world, there aren't to many that come into the US from *other than Europe* countries, followed by the central and south american countries.

I have not yet seen a Japanese bred horse anywhere...leads me as industry ousider to believe that Japan is the end of the road.

So no, Watanabe isn't the sole bad guy, but greedy people who are just too happy sending there horses that way!

poltroon
Jul. 22, 2003, 12:04 PM
I don't have a problem with the TB industry.

I don't have a problem with famous TB sires being exported to other countries who can really use their influence.

I don't even have a problem with some horses going to slaughter. There are worse things than death.

But one thing I think we CAN do here is perhaps put some pressure on the overseas TB associations. For the story on Sea Hero and Strike the Gold, they said they're trying to get some help from the Turkish Thoroughbred Association. Perhaps we can get these associations to recognize that they have an interest in ensuring that these horses are well cared for and treasured while they reside there.

All points
Jul. 22, 2003, 12:09 PM
This is terrible, and horribly sad. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I saw him in person, he was such a kind stallion, our family was able to have our picture taken with him. I will scan and post it later, (after I get a premium membership). To have him meet his end like this, there are no words. He was an American champion, maybe now the racing industry might think a little more about exporting our champions. I am sure some regional market would love to have had a Derby Winner available. Heck the Sport Horse World would have been happy to use him. Its not always about the almighty dollar, RIP Ferdinand.

I am sure every racing fan knows that if Sunday Silence failed at stud, where he would have ended up http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif. I really hope they bring War Emblem home, very soon. I am keeping my fingers crossed for Charismatic, War Emblem, Forty Niner, French Deputy, Black Tie Affair, etc.

BLBGP
Jul. 22, 2003, 12:16 PM
Why do so many top TB racing sires seem to be sold overseas?

NMS
Jul. 22, 2003, 12:29 PM
Fernie, I can say that no, CANTER Ohio is not funded by Thoroughbred Breeders. Our "donations" are from other support groups such as the Thoroughbred Charities of America and Blue Horse Charities. Most other donations come from caring trainer/owners that give us what they can when they can, and from the owners of these horses in their new careers. Our funding comes mostly from the "sale" of our CANTER owned horses. We could do more if we had more $$$. It's a constant struggle.

Nancy

www.canterohio.org (http://www.canterohio.org)

JER
Jul. 22, 2003, 12:32 PM
The real shame is that a horse who earned about $4 million for his owners couldn't earn himself a good retirement.

poltroon
Jul. 22, 2003, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BLBGP:
Why do so many top TB racing sires seem to be sold overseas?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is that they weren't top sires, only top racehorses. When they didn't pan out as sires, the big name made them interesting/valuable to overseas breeders who don't have access to big name stallions.

He might have made a wonderful sport horse sire. What a loss.

I was touched that someone updated his listing on Del Mar.

fernie fox
Jul. 22, 2003, 01:09 PM
NMS,I am sorry if I said something misleading,I did not mean to insinuate that you were funded by them.

I meant that I hope that before long they would want to offer financial help to you And other organizations that do find homes for these horses.

It seems as though many trainers really are trying to do better by these horses.

fernie fox
"I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound".

NMS
Jul. 22, 2003, 01:32 PM
Fernie, I WISH we were funded by more owners and breeders, which is why I posted this. We are funded by other groups within the Thoroughbred Industry so that is a start. My heartfelt wish with this awful tragedy is that it will bring more funding to those trying to make a difference, whether it's helping stallions find safe retirement homes or helping any horse "at risk" at the track.

Many here have done their part and taken an OTTB for a new career. Whinnies to you all.

Nancy

Nancy

www.canterohio.org (http://www.canterohio.org)

Ridin' Fool
Jul. 22, 2003, 01:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The thing is that they weren't top sires, only top racehorses. When they didn't pan out as sires, the big name made them interesting/valuable to overseas breeders who don't have access to big name stallions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Note to remind myself to visit with Cigar while horse showing at the Kentucky Horse Park this weekend. Thank goodness for KHP and his owners!

Albion
Jul. 22, 2003, 02:37 PM
But Cigar couldn't get a mare pregnant - it wasn't that he was fertile & happened to be a crappy racehorse sire.

Right?

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

mbp
Jul. 22, 2003, 03:00 PM
How about a push for the Breeders Cup coverage to include a Eulogoy piece on Excellor and Ferdinand and the efforts to get back Strike the Gold?

Not much face to be saved with millions of viewers finding out how such a great animal was treated.

And the piece should include the efforts of segments of the TB industry to prevent this kind of thing - but it would be a HUGE EYE OPENER for many to get this kind of information as a part of that type of broadcast.

poltroon
Jul. 22, 2003, 03:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ridin' Fool:


Note to remind myself to visit with Cigar while horse showing at the Kentucky Horse Park this weekend. Thank goodness for KHP and his owners!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cigar is owned by an insurance company (the one that held the policy on him). I love the KHP - how wonderful for us random tourist to get to see these great guys, and what a great life they have there.

TKR
Jul. 22, 2003, 03:43 PM
The owners, farms and syndicates KNOW the risks of sending horses to places like Japan, Hong Kong, Singapour and other countries with limited space! They also know the ones that don't make it racing or breeding will be slaughtered. The almighty dollar generates the entire thing and even though there are efforts to help the ex-racers here, as long as they make big bucks selling to foreign countries that have no qualms about slaughtering them or concept of what their accomplishments mean, the story won't change. They are all over the globe at risk and as far as I'm concerned the owners, et al who sell them to those "third world" thinking environments share the blame and the guilt and the blood is on their hands and money.
Penny Garzarek
The Krugerrand Run Thoroughbred Farm
Columbiana, AL

JumpJockey
Jul. 22, 2003, 05:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
Simply REPUGNANT!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I suppose these sob's would have had all the KHP retirement horses - like Cigar - as dinner long ago. The Brits aren't perfect but I would bet my last dollar this wouldn't happen in England by comparison!

I concur that thankfully someone wrote this story as I can only hope that JS Company (the Japanese group that started the spiral downward) will be shunned from any public events and stubbed at any Kentucky stable.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm at a loss about the comment on the Brits-- can you elaborate? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Glimmerglass
Jul. 22, 2003, 06:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JumpJockey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
Simply REPUGNANT!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I suppose these sob's would have had all the KHP retirement horses - like Cigar - as dinner long ago. The Brits aren't perfect but I would bet my last dollar this wouldn't happen in England by comparison!

I concur that thankfully someone wrote this story as I can only hope that JS Company (the Japanese group that started the spiral downward) will be shunned from any public events and stubbed at any Kentucky stable.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm at a loss about the comment on the Brits-- can you elaborate? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was drawing a comparison to another horse racing nation and its values which I stand by. From a culture perspective the British (who are equal if not even more passionate about racing then the Japanese) are not caught up in this "saving face" business. If a champion horse of camparable races [to Ferdinand] didn't work out in the breeding shed it is almost unfathomable that it would be simply sent to slaughter in the UK.

In the same sense racing is racing and the Brits, as I suggested, aren't without the same woes that are simply part of racing - yet can you think of anything as egregious having occurred there? Snuffing a former Grand National horse because his off-spring were weak?

The UK has been the most vocal hold-out of the European nations to the consumption of horses for food. Unlike France and Italy who are passionate about horses but still think eating one isn't a problem.

I'm sure that many Japanese may grumble about the poor press this story will cause, but its a fraction of what heat from the public & press generated if it had been done by a stable in Great Britain. London's Fleet Street press would crucify those final owners. Think this is front page news in Tokyo?

Rye
Jul. 22, 2003, 06:28 PM
Why don't we flood the Japan Association of International Racing with our sentiments on someone's callous disregard for a champion???

Here's the link to their website and an email address too.

http://www.jair.jrao.ne.jp/index2.html

Email: jair@jair.jrao.ne.jp

Jane
Jul. 23, 2003, 12:18 AM
After reading the news on bloodhorse monday night, I've had a knot in my stomach that I still can't really discuss how I feel.

In the meantime, here are two articles I thought you guys might be interested:

Business Decisions (http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=17062)


Not in Vain (http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=17063)

Cartfall
Jul. 23, 2003, 03:33 AM
I read the two articles in the above post.

In the first, the author suggests that a simple contract be drawn up that says the horse is to be returned to the owner.

Nice idea but it doesn't necessarily mean it will work. I speak from personal experience.

It is hard to get a horse back once they are dead.

So very sad about Ferdinand and Exceller.

Chaser
Jul. 23, 2003, 04:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> In the same sense racing is racing and the Brits, as I suggested, aren't without the same woes that are simply part of racing - yet can you think of anything as egregious having occurred there? Snuffing a former Grand National horse because his off-spring were weak?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, one Grand National winner, Hello Dandy, was discovred in very bad shape indeed before being rescued. I'm afraid horses are treated badly wherever one is.

This is something about racehorse rehab in the UK which mentions Hello Dandy:

Racehorse Awareness Week (http://www.animalaid.org.uk/racing/factfile/page6.htm)

The UK isn't a "hold out" against eating horses...it's more to do with cultural taboos.

libgrrl
Jul. 23, 2003, 06:45 AM
Similarly -- how about Our Mims in the US?

drifting cloud
Jul. 23, 2003, 08:17 AM
libgrrl -- Our Mims was featured in Barbara Livingston's wonderful book "Old Friends" (photographs and write-ups about older TBs that were successful racehorses). According to the book, Our Mims is living in Kentucky with a woman named Jeanne Mirabito. It sounds like she has a wonderful, loving home. She still has fans who visit her. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"There are three kinds of men. The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." - Will Rogers

myguyom
Jul. 23, 2003, 09:50 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gifThis is oh so sad, but unfortunately, it happens quite often. The amount of good racing stock that goes to slaughter is unbelievabel...in particular, standardbreds here in Canada. Friends of mine once purchased a daughter of Suny's Halo at a meat auction for 500 dollars....she was only 4 and wasn't competitive enough on the track.

I got my wonderful horse from a conscientious race owner who gelded him when it became apparent that he wasn't productive as a stud, and he gave him to me free of charge. I have owned him for eight years now and wouldn't sell him for the world! Supporting horse rescue foundations and causing a ruckus at meat auctions will definitely help save some of these horses.

Wherever you are Ferdinand, may you rest in peace....

Myguyom.

libgrrl
Jul. 23, 2003, 10:03 AM
Re: Our Mims

She now has a wonderful home. However, she was also an example of one that "slipped through the cracks" until someone found out her situation and gave her the home she has now.

Heather
Jul. 24, 2003, 05:34 PM
Was just watching Trackside Live on TVG, my new addiction, and a son of Ferdinand won a race at Evangeline Downs. They usually announce the pedigree of the winner, and when the one announcer started to say "a bay son of Ferdinand" he just sort of trailed off and there was a full 20 seconds or more of dead air. He than choked out the rest of the pedigree, and then said, "I just can't say that name yet, I just can't . . .I'm still so upset" and the other announcer jumped in and said, "Don't even bring it up man, don't even bring it up, don't even ASK me about it"--his voice just shaking with anger. The third commentator was a woman, and they had to cut away from her because she was tearing up.

On the one hand, it THRILLED me to see these people so intimately involved in the racing biz so visibly shocked, angered and upset over this tragedy, on the other, none of them said what had happened. Now, I'm hoping that's because it was reported on an earlier broadcast that I missed, because TVG is surprisingly good at dealing with these sorts of issues--it's covered a lot of rescue groups, etc.

But, on a positivie note, it appears this isn't being swept under the rug, or that no one in racing cares--it seems clear to me they care very much.

Loose Horse - No Halter
Jul. 27, 2003, 04:29 PM
By Glimmerglass- "In the same sense racing is racing and the Brits, as I suggested, aren't without the same woes that are simply part of racing - yet can you think of anything as egregious having occurred there? Snuffing a former Grand National horse because his off-spring were weak?"

Yes, I can think of a few very public reports of top show horses being snuffed....for insurance purposes. Remember that whole thing on the Chicago 11 (it was 11 wasn't it? I can't remember). Tom Burns admitted to several horse murders (Charisma for $250,000., Henry the Hawk for $150,000., Condino for $200,000. etc..) all top jumpers. I think it was Richard Bailey of that group that prosecutors thought killed Hellen Brach (candy fame, racehorse owner). Barney Ward (former Olympic rider) was also accused of killing 4 show horses for insurance.
Sheese, people are ruthless no matter where they come from.


Mark Twain-
If he is useless on top of the ground; he ought to be under it, inspiring the cabbages.

peachy
Jul. 28, 2003, 12:51 PM
This story is so very sad. I especially took it to heart as my lovely, "dream come true" horse, Young At Heart (aka peach), is sired by Ferdinand. He was a 94 colt that my father bred, out of an excellent racing mare. He went on to be one of Ferdninand's more successful progeny earning over 350,000 in some good races. Due to some major growth spurts he was gelded early on, and once his career was over (at age 6), after being rehabbed from an injury he came to me. He's stunning, looks a lot like his daddy, and is very sweet. If I wasn't so computer illiterate I'd post some pictures.
I went out to his field and gave him a big hug this morning after reading the sad news and thanked my/his lucky stars that he received a happier fate than his sire.
peachy

Carol Ames
Jul. 28, 2003, 05:30 PM
poltroon, thrareworse things than death,however rtheconditions under which horses go to slaughter arehorrendous; some years ago HSSUS did a study on Tbhorsesgoing to slaughter, comparing their bloodlines to those of horses in thetriplecrown races; the coup degrace, if you can can call cal it that was footage of a horse in the slaughter house; ifyou ever have a chance to see it, do ,so, but, be prepared for a horrifying sight, far worse than a horse breaking downon thetrack and dracing on a broken leg; I have acopy of hat show;have never watched it since the night i tatped it off thelocal news show; but,once Iam moved,september 1st, ihope,i will find the tape and lend it to anyonewho might be i terested, iwould suspectthst HSUS wouldhave a copy and conclusions from their study available; I can't tellyou when it was donebefore1996, but do havethe name ofone personon thcommittee/task force; It isNOT euthanasia

breeder of Mercury!

remember to enjoy the moment, and take a momento enjoy!, and give thanks for thesewonderful horses in our lives.

Lookout
Jul. 28, 2003, 05:43 PM
[/QUOTE]
painted as such. What likely happened to Ferdinand is horrifying and heartless, but blaming this on his owner, who tried to get him back and then resulted in this story being reported, is pretty heartless as well.
[QUOTE]

If the owner had never sold him down the river to begin with, he wouldn't have needed to "try" to get him back. I would think a tiny bit of $4million should make a nice retirement for a horse. What about the industry, what are they doing about it, why not some retirement fund from all those winings/stud fees?

Alagirl
Jul. 28, 2003, 08:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> poltroon, thrareworse things than death,however rtheconditions under which horses go to slaughter arehorrendous; some years ago HSSUS did a study on Tbhorsesgoing to slaughter, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What I read about them, I didn't believe them if they showed a blue sky!

Slaughter houses do not want agitated animals, it's bad for the endproduct!

And I bet it would be dangerous as heck to work around them...

Unfortunately my scanner is down, I don't have a premium membership and it would be copyrighted material, but a couple of years ago Western Horseman magazine had an article on slaughter - and believe me, they are not affraid to put grusome visuals in, the horses in the holding pens where all contend.

It was an interesting read. To bad they don't put old articles on the net or pictures...

The transport on the other side - well, that would be a totaly different story. Hate the thought!

Oh, and PS, slow down your typing...makes it easier to read... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Las Olas
Jul. 29, 2003, 12:53 PM
To NMS:

You state: "Fernie, I can say that no, CANTER Ohio is not funded by Thoroughbred Breeders. Our "donations" are from other support groups such as the Thoroughbred Charities of America and Blue Horse Charities. Most other donations come from caring trainer/owners that give us what they can when they can, and from the owners of these horses in their new careers. Our funding comes mostly from the "sale" of our CANTER owned horses. We could do more if we had more $$$. It's a constant struggle."

TCA gets a major portion of their funding from their annual Stallion Season Auction. Those seasons are donated by BREEDERS and syndicate share owners (such as myself). BREEDERS also purchase those seasons. Blue Horse Charities funding comes from the sale of horses through the Fasig-Tipton Auctions. Where BREEDERS donate a percentage of the proceeds from the sale of their horses. I'm sure that Bill Graves at FT would be happy to know that you hold their donations in such low regard.

You should get your facts straight.

Las Olas
Jul. 29, 2003, 01:04 PM
Just something I thought was worth mentioning:

Claiborne Farm did not own Ferdinand. He was owned by Howard Keck and was not syndicated upon his retirement. Howard Keck was in ill health and the horse was sold. Mr. Keck died less than two years later.