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View Full Version : PREbiotics vs. PRObiotics? What's the diff? (Was Diamond V Yeast)



retrofit
Jan. 22, 2010, 02:20 PM
EDIT: I was originally asking about Diamond V Yeast but the broader question became, Why feed PREbiotics or PRObiotics? How do you know which is indicated?

Most feeds/supps contain PRObiotics. I am supplementing 1 horse with Probios as well. How would I know if she should have PREbiotics instead?

(Original post below)
What the subject says ... Is Diamond V Yeast different from probiotics?
Does anyone here use it? Why did you start using it, and what is your opinion?

BuddyRoo
Jan. 22, 2010, 02:43 PM
Yes. And oddly enough I studied up on this because my next door neighbor wanted me to buy it FOR HIM to take. The equine formula was cheaper than the human one. I hauled a 50lb bag of the stuff to MI from IA last time I went home as there was a dealer in my home town. Neighbor is on some wacko mailing list where they get all these "live longer" suggestions.

Probiotics contain bacterial cultures.

Yeast can be food for these bacteria. If you read the Diamond V site, that's their whole pitch.


Now here's the rub FOR ME. The purpose of the hind gut bacteria is to help with digestion and increase the body's ability to utilize more of the food you're putting in. So if you "feed" the bacteria this yeast, then by my logic, they are not able to hang out and digest the stuff they're supposed to.

I dunno. I'm not on the bandwagon just yet.

Here's a link to their site w/ an explanation:
http://www.diamondv.com/species/equine/equine_different.htm

cloudyandcallie
Jan. 22, 2010, 02:53 PM
Thanks BR. A lot of people use it but I've not used it yet. My horse and dogs and cats eat yoghurt, so we'll stay with that.

Leather
Jan. 22, 2010, 03:20 PM
Diamond V yeast is more of a "prebiotic" type product than a probiotic.


Now here's the rub FOR ME. The purpose of the hind gut bacteria is to help with digestion and increase the body's ability to utilize more of the food you're putting in. So if you "feed" the bacteria this yeast, then by my logic, they are not able to hang out and digest the stuff they're supposed to.


There really isn't any competition going on. Feeding a prebiotic like Diamond V makes the digestive tract more hospitable for the beneficial bacteria to flourish.

They are probably most beneficial to a horse with a higher starch/lower fiber diet, as their hindgut isn't as hospitable towards the beneficial bacteria.



Prebiotics, on the other hand, are substances that don’t contain the actual organisms, but do encourage their growth. As an example, fermentation products are liquids or dried concentrates of fluid that are extracted from vats where beneficial types of organisms are growing. These products are believed to contain factors that encourage beneficial strains to proliferate and thrive.

Another example is soluble fibers—such as beet pulp and complex plant carbohydrates. These can also be considered prebiotics because they are easily fermented. In fact, the grass and hay portion of your horse’s diet is probably the most important prebiotic, since beneficial organisms cannot thrive without something to "eat."


I don't feed Diamond V (only because it's a special order item around here), but I do use a different prebiotic. http://equilix.com/pdf/EquiPride_EZ_Guide.pdf

More info on yeast here: http://www.admani.com/AllianceEquine/TechBulletins/Supplementing%20Horse%20Diets%20with%20Yeast.htm

pintopiaffe
Jan. 22, 2010, 03:28 PM
Yeast has other benefits though, and is a source of B vitties. Seems to help with fleas on dogs, etc.

I do find it helps with 'bloom'. If I'm feeding plain whole grains, I do add Diamond V about every 3rd or 4th month for as long as the bag takes to feed. I don't feed it during mud season though. I can't stand to see my money just dumped into the mud. :sigh: (I have dish-dumpers :no: )

retrofit
Jan. 22, 2010, 03:39 PM
So I guess the broader question is, when do you feed prebiotics vs. probiotics? (To a horse.)

BuddyRoo
Jan. 22, 2010, 04:02 PM
For me...I will give a probiotic to a horse who has been on antibiotics for some reason, has been stressed for some reason, is unthrifty or elderly.

pintopiaffe
Jan. 22, 2010, 07:16 PM
very few actual studies on this with horses... but the marketing is good!

From a compilation of sources, I use probiotics both after a situation (deworming, colic, antibiotics) and also prophylactically for things that I know WILL be stressful like the long (5 hr) one way trailer ride to a lesson, hard lesson, temp changes, ride home in one day... or weaning or a mare going to board for breeding etc.

I use pre-biotic like Diamond V XP on a randomly regular basis ( :lol: ) like once a quarter 'till the bag's gone, just because. :yes:

My favorite product is one that combines both, either Dynamite DynaPro or Farnham's Ration Plus, which I'd feed once a week (plus as stated above) if cost wasn't a factor.

retrofit
Jan. 23, 2010, 09:52 AM
Bumping up to the top. Edited for more responses, hopefully.
Great quote re: bits & cats! :yes:

retrofit
Jan. 25, 2010, 08:41 AM
Any nutrition gurus care to comment?

sweetpea
Jan. 25, 2010, 09:23 AM
I have feed fast trak--- good success
I have feed probious on the road with tubes -- good success

I did the diamond v xp- HAD THE worst gas colic TWICE with this one horse.
The first time it happened we thought Hmmm- so we took him off it .
Went back to it two weeks later to check and Same thing again---
Vet said with some horse especially horse on BP it may ferment to much ---
Just my experience.

Thomas_1
Jan. 25, 2010, 09:35 AM
I'm thinking the difference is the opportunity to grow the market and make more profit from unnecessary stuff that has absolutely no proven efficacy in ordinarily healthy horses.