PDA

View Full Version : Area II Training move up Spring



inquisitive
Jan. 21, 2010, 08:23 AM
Any suggestions on a good training move up (AII) for the Spring? Here's what I gathered from the omnibus but wanted your thoughts as well...

CDCTA - good move up
Plantation - early season course
Redland - early season course
Loudoun - solid
MCTA - inviting

I'm not sure if/when it will happen but wanted to see what my options were.

TIA!

tarheelmd07
Jan. 21, 2010, 08:30 AM
I'd say redland is definitely inviting. MCTA would be a good choice too - pretty straight forward as well. The Trakhaner at MCTA rides very well...the 2 fences that I was a bit worried about last year were a good sized white table that was set way off by itself (we have issues when we have a very long approach to a single fence) and a corner near the water - however, these 2 fences are now living at AOPF (along with several of the other fences from the training course) until they go back to Shawan when it's time to set the course...

...so if you wanted to school a good chunk of the training fences, you could bring Q over to school before the fences go away in early April...

If for some reason your move up got delayed until summer, I've found Surefire to be a good move up course (used it twice as a move up for 2 different horses)

GotSpots
Jan. 21, 2010, 09:13 AM
Loudoun is usually a lovely course, with almost no terrain and quite inviting - that would be my pick since their SJ is in a great arena and the turf is usually very good galloping. It may be slightly bigger than some of the others, but it tends toward tables and rolltops with wide faces that jump quite well. MCTA is a very well built course, though in the past some of the their training courses have been quite stiff. Surefire's training is pretty small though there is a wee bit of terrain there that can make it a bit harder. I do not love their show jump, however, and think it's on the tougher side at all the levels.

LisaB
Jan. 21, 2010, 09:20 AM
Loudon would be my first choice. And you've also had good luck with VA too ;)
MCTA is good but on the tougher side with lots of 'stuff'.
Redlands, I didn't do tr there but I can't imagine it being that flowing with a longer course. I did like the bn though.
Also, take a look at Fair hill.

lecoeurtriste
Jan. 21, 2010, 09:25 AM
Depending how far south you want to travel, the Training course at the Ark (Feb. 27-28) has been redone this year to be very inviting for a first spring outing--last year's most difficult questions (the ditch/bank, double steps down, and up bank combo out of the water) have been REMOVED from the course. There very few terrain questions and greatly improved footing from years past. We are also offering PT and TN divisions for riders who aren't quite sure they're ready to move all the way up so early in the year.

Good luck with your move up!

maps at: www.whynotanamericanark.com

inquisitive
Jan. 21, 2010, 09:26 AM
Depending how far south you want to travel, the Training course at the Ark (Feb. 27-28) has been redone this year to be very inviting for a first spring outing--last year's most difficult questions (the ditch/bank, double steps down, and up bank combo out of the water) have been REMOVED from the course. There very few terrain questions and greatly improved footing from years past. We are also offering PT and TN divisions for riders who aren't quite sure they're ready to move all the way up so early in the year.

Good luck with your move up!

maps at: www.whynotanamericanark.com

Thanks but we most definitely will not be ready by then ;)

My goal is to hit Novice at Southern Pines I and Morven and see how it goes from there... also need to get out to XC once.

OneMoreForTheRoad
Jan. 21, 2010, 09:43 AM
I'm shooting for MCTA to be my move up from Novice to Training, after going Novice at Morven and Redland Hunt.
I've heard about the same opinion of MCTA's course as what people are voicing here but I picked it over Redland Hunt because I don't think Redland's course flows very well and some of the combinations in their Training course were awkward (at least when I last rode it).
Also the only real issue my horse has with XC is water... but maybe I'll go over to AOPF and school some of the jumps anyways :)

scubed
Jan. 21, 2010, 10:26 AM
I personally love the plantation xc for a move up, thought not the sj, but that is in part because I know the course well. There is some terrain, but the course is galloping and inviting. However, sj is typically on terrain and grass and quite difficult, so if you have any sj issues, would not recommend it.

Catalina
Jan. 21, 2010, 10:32 AM
I am planning on doing Training at CDCTA (it's not our move up, but it will be only our 3rd ever) because I have heard that it is on the easier side.

I did Training at Morven last October and it was HARD for my first time ever (lots of maxed out stuff), but it rode really, really well. I don't know if Loudoun will have the same course or not.

inquisitive
Jan. 21, 2010, 11:06 AM
I'm not so worried about maxed tables, rolltops, etc., more how technical or big the water/bank/ditch stuff is :)

Hope that helps and thanks for all the suggestions so far!

ACMEeventing
Jan. 21, 2010, 08:50 PM
Southern Pines HT. The footing is ALWAYS excellent and the Training level course is completely fair. There isn't an open ditch and the trekhener is sandwiched in between the novice and prelim obstacle so makes a runout difficult.

Besides, what beats a Carolina Blue sky?

retreadeventer
Jan. 21, 2010, 09:35 PM
Hmm.
I've ridden multiple horses over the past years at all the events mentioned except CDCTA.
I think it would be smart to move up at a course you've already ridden Novice over - and of course since you walked your Novice courses there you should be familiar with the Training courses (I always peek at the next level up!).
I would not move up at Plantation until the June event, I think. April and May are hefty. I thought the training last year at MCTA was also pretty healthy -- the footing was deep and the jumps were big. Fair Hill has probably one of the most difficult water combinations for training - last year we had to jump a coop that hid the drop in, two long strides to the drop (I got 3), canter thru pond, out on an angle to another coop or rolltop or something - I would not consider that "easy". Then one easy jump across the field, and a skinny hanging log to the double down drops. Those were not easy jumps by any means.
Footing in early spring will change those levels! By the time you get to a jump that was on the big side and the footing is gone on takeoff, it's REALLY big.
I love Flora Lea for a move up but again it is over a farm and can be a little trappy. Probably like Redlands. Difficult Run can be a good move up - I have heard. It is especially good bec. you can school it, too.
What about Waredaca? I have always thought their courses were fair but I have not been able to ride over a course for a while. Loch Moy in the summer will be set up for move ups -- the first event is top of the level, and the next event the following week is bottom of the level. Like, a hard Novice and easy Training. That makes a lot of sense.

Tnevent
Jan. 22, 2010, 06:25 AM
I moved two horses up to Training at Loudoun last spring. Good course for a move up. A bit softer than the course they used at Morven. The ditch for the half coffin is on the bigger side. You also run down a hill to an angled two stride. But I think it was number seperate if you want to make it easier. Don't remember anything being on the big side.

MCTA is an inviting course. Can't really see the ditch under the trakhener. Easy water. Nothing trappy or on hard approches. I haven't been to Redlands in years. Remember that getting to some of the jumps was a little akward. Fair Hill's courses are all good for move ups. You never really know what to expect at Waredaca. It can be on the easier side or the Training Olympics!

Sorry if there is any misspelling, grammer errors. Coffee hasn't set in yet!

asterix
Jan. 22, 2010, 09:15 AM
I have a new to Training horse and I'm not planning on taking him to Redland -- I love the people there but honestly half the time (no joke) the footing is so awful they remove the back half of the course or scale it way back.
I agree with others that MCTA is really nice -- the deep footing there last year was not their fault -- it can be large, though! It also incorporates the giant hill on the back of the course so if fitness is an issue, beware....

Morven spring is usually soft, unlike the T course this fall at Morven.

The Fair Hill courses can be a bit all over the map -- I've run both soft and tough Trainings there.

Waredaca in June (I board there, so I've seen lots of their courses) is a very nice moveup if you wait that long. In October, sure, it's tough, but June is usually a great inviting T course -- I've moved two horses up at that HT.

Catalina
Jan. 22, 2010, 09:30 AM
I'm not so worried about maxed tables, rolltops, etc., more how technical or big the water/bank/ditch stuff is :)

At Morven, the bank was a double. You jumped up, one stride to another up, then a bending 3 to a coop on top. It rode well, but my guy got a little backed off by the double up concept (first time he had seen that). The water was easy: jump, one stride to the water, splash through (it was shallow), one stride to another jump. The coffin was probably one of the tougher jumps. There was a big log in, two strides to a ditch (we did more because Connor was STARING hard at to HUGE ditch :lol:), the another log out. This is C of the coffin (http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL930/1750828/17957437/375372528.jpg)

yellowbritches
Jan. 22, 2010, 12:11 PM
I'm a big fan for move ups at Redland. I find that the course usually asks a good many of the training questions, but a little smaller...closer to novice size, but throws in some solid but inviting training sized galloping fences. The show jumping is usually left on the smaller, more inviting side, too (which is good, since poor Redland is often on the muddy side). It's a nice, low key event and we often try to make it our first event of the year for horses or riders who don't go south. The only real problem with it is that they have ridiculously bad luck there with the weather. It can be a mud bog. :no: Just the luck of the draw.

Loudoun/Morven is solid but inviting, and show jumping IS nice since it is in the ring.

I moved my young horse up to training at MCTA last year. Show jumping was HUGE (and this is my weak link), and the xc was solid and most of the fences were up to height (but inviting). My guy stormed around it like an old pro, but I've ridden a lot of horses at training (and been the one to move them up), I've ridden around prelim, and this horse is probably the bravest, boldest, most athletic horse I've ever been blessed to sit on, so big wasn't an issue (our last school at home, the boss had to keep reminding himself that he was helping me school a horse moving up to training, NOT prelim).

I think my pick would be Redland, especially if you'll get a few goes before hand, but Loudoun wouldn't be that bad either. If you do novice at Morven, you'll be able to walk around the training and get a good idea as to what you'll see at Loudoun.

inquisitive
Jan. 22, 2010, 12:23 PM
Thanks everyone, you have been so helpful!

My H/J trainer obviously doesn't know the courses and the eventing trainer I get to once a month is in FL til May probably :lol:

Tarheel, I will probably take you up on that offer, maybe between SPI and Morven or after Morven :)

Sandpiper
Jan. 22, 2010, 03:47 PM
Another option, though technically in summer, is MDHT II. Last year it was tagged as a move-up course -- tough but fair. I ran novice at MDHT I and moved up to training the next weekend at II. The courses ran along the same track so we already had a feel for the flow of the course. The stadium, though, was another (maxed out) beast entirely!

I board at the farm that hosts Redland HT, and it is a very fair early season course, though mostly portables for what that's worth. The majority of problems on last year's training course happened at the bank (jump up, jump a coop on top of the bank and canter down a small slope on other side). I suspect the course this year will be similar.

Beam Me Up
Jan. 22, 2010, 03:55 PM
CDCTA - good move up
Plantation - early season course
Redland - early season course
Loudoun - solid
MCTA - inviting

I haven't done Plantation in like 6 years, and most of the others it's been a couple, but of the remaining 4, I think MCTA can be the stiffest, maybe followed by Loudoun.

Redlands always seems really small, which is good for moving up, but between the (usually muddy) footing and the twisty nature of the course, it's hard to get much rhythm (it reminds me of Difficult Run in that sense, if you've ever ridden there).

CDCTA is a lot bigger but simple. I did their fall event which was billed as "test of readiness for the next level" and it was mostly just big portables, not a lot of "questions."

I don't think any of those is a terrible choice though. Moving up in the spring is always good. Just depends on your schedule and horse. Another T that stood out as easy to me was Surefire.

yellowbritches
Jan. 22, 2010, 04:30 PM
Redlands always seems really small, which is good for moving up, but between the (usually muddy) footing and the twisty nature of the course, it's hard to get much rhythm (it reminds me of Difficult Run in that sense, if you've ever ridden there).
The last time I rode the training course there was 2006 on Ralph (who was coming back but had gone prelim) and Zeke/the BFG, his first training. I didn't feel like it was nearly as twisty as DRPC and Ralph zipped around it in great form (granted, he was a teeny little TB, but he had a HUGE stride). I rode the novice on Vernon last year and even with his GIGANTIC stride and the fact that 350 is too slow for him, it didn't feel twisty, either. I think there's been a great deal of improvements to the course the last few years. It CAN be muddy, though, which is a bummer. It really is a nice, fun, low key type event.

Ditto on Surefire, though. Almost too easy. Novice at Surefire was Vernon's first "real" event, second event ever, and I remember walking the training course with friends and going "Vernon could have done this...." Very straightforward.

Beam Me Up
Jan. 22, 2010, 05:20 PM
^ I take your word, it's been a few years since I've been and it sounds like it's improved.

takethestage
Jan. 26, 2010, 11:51 PM
not to hijack, but which of the spring trials tends to have a softer stadium course? it's my strongest phase, but my new horse has major confidence issues for it... not worried about xc though, he's a powerhouse!

Catalina
Jan. 27, 2010, 09:30 AM
not to hijack, but which of the spring trials tends to have a softer stadium course?

Some of the ones I have been to:

Redlands: on the side of a hill and can be quite tough

Loudoun: lovely courses, lovely footing, but the jumps do tend to be maxed out

Difficult Run: if it is still in the indoor (I hope :yes:), hard, hard, hard because the horses are going :eek:, but if you ride forward and confidently, it is not bad at all

inquisitive
Feb. 24, 2010, 08:18 AM
Thanks for all the wonderful replies. So of course things always go wrong when I make plans, but I'm still tentatively hoping for a T-moveup at MCTA.

My original plan was to hit SPI, Morven, then Loudoun right before MCTA. Well SPI is not in the cards anymore, so I was thinking of trying to fit in a third N run in between Morven and Loudoun. My first thought was Plantation because 1. they tend to have good footing and I like the terrain, and 2. it would spread things out more. Can anyone chime in on whether this is a good idea or if CDCTA would be better. I don't think I want to hit Redlands simply because I usually volunteer there and I know how the footing is...

tarheelmd07
Feb. 24, 2010, 09:59 AM
I've never been to CDCTA, but we're going this year for the first time - I was contemplating going to FENCE for the T3D that weekend, but wasn't up for another long drive...so needed a T that ran that weekend (since I was off already!)

asterix
Feb. 24, 2010, 10:35 AM
yes, I am revisiting this too, would love other opinions.

I was going to start at morven, but NO WAY will we be ready now, with the weather/ground.

I can't do Redland, as it turns out, as we have family stuff that weekend.

CDCTA is really only a week after Morven, and with more snow on the way....

...so...would it be terribly mean to the beasties to do Loudon and then MCTA back to back?

By then they should be properly fit for Training. One is my VERY experienced horse, but first time back after 2 years off. The other is the baby, did his first T at Rubicon in Nov. He's game but green.

I would NOT be trying to make time on either one at Loudon -- big horse can do it standing on his head but at his first time back I'd be looking to cruise, and the baby horse is still getting his sea legs at the level.

I generally don't run back to backs unless one is at home, but the schedule and weather...hmmm...

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 24, 2010, 10:38 AM
Thanks for all the wonderful replies. So of course things always go wrong when I make plans, but I'm still tentatively hoping for a T-moveup at MCTA.

My original plan was to hit SPI, Morven, then Loudoun right before MCTA. Well SPI is not in the cards anymore, so I was thinking of trying to fit in a third N run in between Morven and Loudoun. My first thought was Plantation because 1. they tend to have good footing and I like the terrain, and 2. it would spread things out more. Can anyone chime in on whether this is a good idea or if CDCTA would be better. I don't think I want to hit Redlands simply because I usually volunteer there and I know how the footing is...


I'd pick Plantation over CDCTA....but hard to tell what the footing will be like this spring. Honestly though...at novice and training....the differences in the courses really isn't significant. It is novice and training. Don't make a huge deal over your move up. Pick the events that fit in your schedule and are close by. There will be good and bad at most of them.....but if you have done your homework...your move up should go just fine.

I personally find for most of my green horses, they move up better when competing consistently. Like every other weekend for a couple, then maybe a back to back for the move up (so novice one weekend...training the next). I can do this since most events are just single days and within 3 hours or less (in Area II). But you need to do what works for you and for your horse best.

Catalina
Feb. 24, 2010, 10:49 AM
:sigh: I'm revisiting this too.

So is Redlands really going to be that bad? I won an entry in a silent auction and I really don't want to lose it. Would it be better to just go Novice (we just moved up to Training last fall) and aim for Loudoun or even DRPC Training instead? Or skip Redlands all together (I hate to lose that money, but horsie's welfare comes first)? Ack, I'm so confused, especially since I haven't ridden in months.

inquisitive
Feb. 24, 2010, 10:59 AM
I personally find for most of my green horses, they move up better when competing consistently. Like every other weekend for a couple, then maybe a back to back for the move up (so novice one weekend...training the next). I can do this since most events are just single days and within 3 hours or less (in Area II). But you need to do what works for you and for your horse best.

Definitely agree for both myself and this horse :lol: That's why I thought Loudoun would be perfect prep for right before move up at MCTA.

yellowbritches
Feb. 24, 2010, 11:27 AM
:sigh: I'm revisiting this too.

So is Redlands really going to be that bad? I won an entry in a silent auction and I really don't want to lose it. Would it be better to just go Novice (we just moved up to Training last fall) and aim for Loudoun or even DRPC Training instead? Or skip Redlands all together (I hate to lose that money, but horsie's welfare comes first)? Ack, I'm so confused, especially since I haven't ridden in months.
Redlands is NOT bad. They do have some bad luck with weather, but they try REALLY hard to keep the footing in good shape and make it doable for everyone. I have never been anything but happy with Redland.

Catalina
Feb. 24, 2010, 12:36 PM
That's what I thought; I've been there a few times and always liked it. I just read a couple of posts alluding to the potential of not so good footing. This winter has just been a suckfest weather wise.

technopony
Feb. 24, 2010, 01:05 PM
I feel like every event in March/April now has the potential for really bad footing. The training at Redland is always small, even though the course can be sort of twisty. Last year, the bank up to the rolltop got a few horses, as did the angled coffin, but overall I think its a pretty easy event. I would go if I'd already won an entry.

Just sent in my entry for CDCTA... the Farmer's Almanac had better be wrong :(

midnightride
Feb. 24, 2010, 01:12 PM
Just a word of warning about Frying Pan Training level- Paddy O' Mallys bank.... that thing gave me nightmares and i grew up fox-hunting!! My guy did it ok but we were both glad to get off of that thing (minus a front shoe:eek:) Rest of the course was nice and forward, plus they have bluestone on most of the take off and landings.

asterix
Feb. 24, 2010, 06:44 PM
agreed with others, Redland is a nice place and they do try really hard, but the fact of the matter is that the back half of the course is down in a low/creek spot, and if it's at all muddy it's a total muck fest down there. One year they had to take the whole section off the T course entirely -- this included the water, so that's a bummer if you are using it as a "get your feet wet" event (pun intended).

SJ is on grass and can get deep, but no more than any other place on grass that time of year (and I think I've never jumped in anything so deep at MCTA later in the spring last year, and that's usually great, so...)

Dressage is half grass half bluestone so you may luck out there...

mythical84
Feb. 25, 2010, 08:34 AM
I'll always enter Redland, if not just to support the pony club. So that will be Mr. Moosetrack's debut. His feet are big enough, he shouldn't have a problem. :lol:

I'm actually going to skip MCTA this year and take him to Iron Bridge instead, which is a local starter event. Can't justify hauling an hour when I can haul 10 minutes. Of course, maybe Pharmgirl will take over the reins for that show.

If Harry is still around and not sold by then, he'll do Morven Novice then move up to Training at Redland, then MCTA.

eventingcpa
Feb. 25, 2010, 08:57 AM
Not meaning to hijac the thread, but in that same vein, what about Rubicon as a move up from Novice to Training. I've ridden the novice but is been a while and havn't done or remember seeing the training.

Catalina
Feb. 25, 2010, 09:05 AM
I did my second Training ever at Rubicon last fall and it was awesome. I loved the XC course. It flowed well and there was nothing that made me or my horse go :eek:. Stadium was tough as it is on that silly hill :winkgrin: and was maxed out, but overall, it was great!

asterix
Feb. 25, 2010, 09:41 AM
I love Rubicon; I moved the baby up to Training there last fall and it was a really nice course.

The XC is very inviting, which is not to say soft or small. It's just that there are a lot of nice forward, open spots, and the questions tend to be very fair.

Typically you will have either a bank, 2 stride to a log, or a log, 2 stride to a drop, a full (but not nasty) coffin, a couple of maxed out straightforward fences, and something usually involving jumping in to water.

I think my pics are still up from the fall -- you can see the bank, the coffin, and the water, actually....
Rubicon Training (http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/ThumbPage.aspx?e=5599879&g=0EBK00B26K)
Starts with the coffin (which is a _bit_ more downhill than it looks), then water and bank after SJ....

GotSpots
Feb. 25, 2010, 09:48 AM
Rubicon is one of my very favorite events at every level. The footing is consistent, the jumps are beautifully built, and the questions are fair. That being said, it is a tough training. I think it's alot for a first training and wouldn't necessarily pick it as a move-up: stadium tends to be a little tricky because the course uses a hill (super fun); most of the fences XC are pretty close to max, and there are a number of legitimate (though fair) questions at the level. I'd pick MCTA or Maryland for a move-up to Training (the latter depending on what they've done with the Training water, which was brutal for awhile but I think they've revamped). I love Loudoun and Morven for straight forward early season training runs; also like Plantation for a move-up, but depends on how you feel about hills.

Editing to add that I think it's funny that Asterix and I tend to have different views on move-ups! I think it depends on how you feel about size of fence: I would say that Rubicon is bigger/brighter than many of the courses in the area which tends to back folks off, but agree with her that there's plenty of room to gallop on there. Note that it does tend to be difficult to make time there at all levels.

eventingcpa
Feb. 25, 2010, 12:56 PM
Thank you! that was very helpful and thanks so much asterix, a picture realy is worth a thousand words. I love VA horse trials and Difficult run for putting pictures of thier course jumps up and course walk maps with pictures. it realy does help, even if the jumps look different when your right there in front compared to on the computer, it helps to get an idea.

thanks again.

asterix
Feb. 25, 2010, 03:25 PM
you're welcome :D
I figured those pics actually show you pretty much all the technical elements of the course, which is not usually the case
--
the one exception was a downhill 2 stride that was the hardest thing on the course. I think I blanked that one out as the poor munchkin needed a green horse ride there and I didn't give it to him (he muddled through, but it was a muddle).

GS, it's VERY funny indeed. That being said, I agree actually that MCTA (of late, not 3 years ago)is a better moveup.

Maryland you could NEVER get me to move up at because I am super ditch-o-phobic and the ditch and wall scares the pants off me (the trak isn't my fav either)...but, yeah, overall, Rubicon is probably harder....

It totally depends on what you are sitting on!

And, yes, Rubicon IS hard to make time on. I ride big horses who tend to take a while to learn how to gallop forward as they move up, so I have to say I didn't even TRY to make time, but if that's important to you...

pday09
Feb. 25, 2010, 08:03 PM
Redland is a great BN/N course, I haven't ridden the T (jump judged many years) and the xc isn't over a huge amount of space, so it depends on how your horse does with technicalities. There isn't anything unfair though.