SWB? Nepal, Holsteiner, and Gelderlander/KWPN stud info needed

[okggo]

I've been researching some bloodlines and thought I would come here for ones I'm not having as much luck on.

KWPN (SWB?) Stallion: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/nepal8
Nepal (Pericles x Iregina) - what did HE do? Anything? I've been able to find daughters of Nepal that have produced international level horses, so he seems like a good broodmare sire, and he has produced dressage and jumping offspring. He is registered KWPN but I seem to find more when I search him under Swedish WB. Even still I really can't find much about his performance (if he had any beyond stallion approval). Also, anything on his damsire Dolman (Holsteiner)?

Gelderlander stallion Pygmalion (Locomotief x Melvira) - again not much I can find on HIM. His offspring have produced some nice sport horses (like Rubus-B) but that is as far as I get.

Any pedigree gurus able to tell me more on either of them?

[meghan1963]

Pygmalion is not a Gelders horse - he is a Harness horse type.

He is the grandfather of 4 approved KWPN stallions.

3 harness types & 1 Gelders:

Name: PYGMALION Tuigpaardtype
Licensed grandsons
FORTISSIMO 87.308 Stb
HARALD 89.856 Stb
HEINEKE 89.95 Stb
RUBUS-B (GP) 98.02257 Stb (ex Rubus vb KWPN)

Here is a link the KWPN info on all approved stallions:


http://hengsten.kwpn.nl/index_en.asp?lang=uk

[okggo]

I'm a little embarrased to ask this but...I really wasn't aware Gelders and Harness were different types (I was thinking they were one and the same). Could you, or someone, elaborate on that?

Tks!

Pygmalion is not a Gelders horse - he is a Harness horse type.

He is the grandfather of 4 approved KWPN stallions.

3 harness types & 1 Gelders:

Name: PYGMALION Tuigpaardtype
Licensed grandsons
FORTISSIMO 87.308 Stb
HARALD 89.856 Stb
HEINEKE 89.95 Stb
RUBUS-B (GP) 98.02257 Stb (ex Rubus vb KWPN)

Here is a link the KWPN info on all approved stallions:


http://hengsten.kwpn.nl/index_en.asp?lang=uk

[Fantastic]

From the KWPN-NA website:

Breeding Goal for Gelders Horses

The breeding goal is to produce a Gelders horse that can be used for multi-purposes. The Gelders horse distinguishes itself both in harness and under saddle with its happy appearance, reliable and willing character, healthy constitution, functional conformation, correct movement mechanism and correct base with a preferably attractive exterior. To reach this goal, the Gelders horse should be suitable for use under saddle and in harness with an elegant build with substance, self carriage, sufficiently developed legs and big gaits with light knee action in the foreleg and with power and carrying ability from behind.

Breeding Goal for Harness Horses

The breeding goal is to produce a harness horse that can perform in the highest levels of Harness sport and also possesses a healthy constitution, functional conformation, a correct movement mechanism and a correct base with a preferably attractive exterior. To reach this goal the harness horse should have good suspension in the trot with a foreleg that moves well with high knee action and a hindleg that steps under powerfully, as well as proud self carriage with a long vertical neck.

[okggo]

Hmmm, but he is listed as having full gelderlander blood - but bred for Harness. I guess that is another distinction? Blood vs type?

Anything on Nepal?

[Fantastic]

The history can be a bit confusing. We have a thread here about this Gelders and Harness Horses: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4566861#post4566861

Yes, it is very much about fitting into the "type" profile. There can be no more than 12.5% impovement blood in either book.

Here are some interesting registration possibilities:
1) You can have a 100% Gelderlander bred horse, papered as a Dutch Harness Horse.
2) You can have a 100% Gelderlander bred horse, and it is papered as a Gelderlander.
3) You can have a 75% Gelderlander (who is very much Gelderlander in type), but he is papered as a Dutch Warmblood because the other 25% is thoroughbred.
4) You can have a 87.5% Gelderlander, but he is papered as a Dutch Harness Horse.
5) You can have a 75% or better Gelderlander blood (some though Dutch Harness Horse, and some through Dutch Warmblood mares with Gelderlander blood), and it is papered as a Dutch Warmblood
6) You can have a Dutch Warmblood father on a Dutch Harness Horse dam, and it is papered as a Dutch Warmblood.
7) You can have a Dutch Harness Horse father on a Dutch Warmblood dam, and it is papered as a Dutch Warmblood.
8) You can have a Gelderlander father, on a Dutch Harness dam and it is papered as a Gelderlander (as long as there is not more than 12.5% improvement blood).
etc, etc, etc.

[STF]

Anything on Nepal?

Nepal 390 was born at Flyinge (Sweden State Stud). That is a VERY old bloodline as he was born in the mid 50s. His offspring actually show a higher ability to jump than dressage, but still average in the dressage index. He was the sire of a few approved stallion but I see him a lot in dam lines. Versatile but old style boy.

[meghan1963]

Her mare was sired by a different Nepal. he was born in the Netherlands.

NEPAL Rijpaardtype
General

Birthdate
14-jun-1972


Studbook 141 Stb
Name breeder, place breeder B.G. Wikkerink, Aalten(Gld)

Color dark bay
Breeding family fokfam 65

Height 170

[STF]

Opps! Sorry! I saw (SWB) above and did not look at the bloodline.

[meghan1963]

to find offspring of Nepal go to:

http://www.paardenfokken.nl/pedigree.php?horseid=11061

then click on Progeny

that will generate a list of his offspring (not all)

you can then look for ones that have sport results

[Renae]

There can be no more than 12.5% impovement blood in either book.

For the Harness Horse book you can have up to 75% improvement blood, but that blood must be either Hackney Horse or American Saddlebred.

[TheBandit]

There is a photo of Pygmalion with a list of some of his offspring here.

http://www.gelderlanderhorse.nl/pedigree/nederlands/horse.php?N=00000581