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View Full Version : A question about trainers and "ring hopping"........



ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:14 AM
I'm really curious; why does (seemingly) every hunter trainer insist on being at every client's round at every ring at every show? I realize that the trainer would LIKE to see the culmination of your efforts together to improve your horse and yourself, but it always seems to be at the expense of the other competitors. Like mroades' post on how to make a judge angry in two easy steps - what is UP with that? Why does no one insist on the 2 minute rule? And why must a trainer insist on being at the walk/trot ring AND the adult ring AND the equitation ring all at the same time? Is the trainer so convinced that you won't be able to perform correctly unless his/her eyes are trained on you your entire trip? Or does he/she have that little confidence in what he/she has taught you? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Obviously, this entire mindset is what makes shows run ludicrously late due to "trainer conflicts" (now THERE'S a redundancy for you! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif), but no one seems to want to do anything about it. I mean, it would be NICE for the trainer to watch the walk/trot division, but when it holds up the equitation ring, that's a bit much. And why must an adult be under her trainer's scrutiny during each and every round including the U/S? Have these people never heard of "video tape"? I'd like to see these shenanigans being tried at a horse trials or dressage show. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Any ideas? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:14 AM
I'm really curious; why does (seemingly) every hunter trainer insist on being at every client's round at every ring at every show? I realize that the trainer would LIKE to see the culmination of your efforts together to improve your horse and yourself, but it always seems to be at the expense of the other competitors. Like mroades' post on how to make a judge angry in two easy steps - what is UP with that? Why does no one insist on the 2 minute rule? And why must a trainer insist on being at the walk/trot ring AND the adult ring AND the equitation ring all at the same time? Is the trainer so convinced that you won't be able to perform correctly unless his/her eyes are trained on you your entire trip? Or does he/she have that little confidence in what he/she has taught you? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Obviously, this entire mindset is what makes shows run ludicrously late due to "trainer conflicts" (now THERE'S a redundancy for you! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif), but no one seems to want to do anything about it. I mean, it would be NICE for the trainer to watch the walk/trot division, but when it holds up the equitation ring, that's a bit much. And why must an adult be under her trainer's scrutiny during each and every round including the U/S? Have these people never heard of "video tape"? I'd like to see these shenanigans being tried at a horse trials or dressage show. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Any ideas? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Nickelodian
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:36 AM
I'm paying my trainer to watch me, not to watch other clients. I'm a paying customer, therefore I never will go into the ring for a jumping class w/o my trainer there. I think its less the trainer wanting to be there and more the client wanting to get what she payed for. An aside though...if you're showing 3' and above I don't see ANY reason a trainer has to be there for a hack class!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I survived!

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:44 AM
Okay. I see your point. But is it realistic? Not trying to be rude or anything, but if you're with a trainer with let's say, 10 other clients, all showing in different divisions, and the trainer presumably showing some greenies, what are the real chances of this happening without having at least a few conflicts and resultant ring-holds along the way? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

BenRidin
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:02 AM
And what if disaster strikes and the rider falls when the trainer isn't there? Do you blame it on the fact that she had no trainer standing by the ring? How is the trainer supposed to know what happend? How can the trainer know what to work on during the next lesson; how can they know that their student is ready to move up? If people go in the ring without trainers that totally defeats the purpose of even having one.
I know my trainer would be very upset if I went in the ring without him (unless he gave me permission because he was busy and it was a very small, insignificant class that he knew I could do in my sleep) and I would be with a different trainer if my current one told me to go ahead and go do the junior jumpers on my own while he is out in the pony ring with someone else.

~BenRidin

CuteHunter
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:04 AM
Like Nickelodian, I am a paying customer so i want to my coach to see everything I do in the ring so we can improve upon it later. It is up to trainers to take a reasonable amount of clients to a show so they arent holding up rings or hire an assisstant trainer who can sit in in place of the coach. But to me, suggesting I should ride without my coach when I am paying my coach to be there doesn't seem like the right answer.

* * * * * * * * * *
Life goes on... Things Change (Tim McGraw)

BenRidin
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickelodian:
.if you're showing 3' and above I don't see ANY reason a trainer has to be there for a hack class!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's funny.. with my old trainer one show he had to go to a different ring and the childrens hack was my last class of the day. I told him he could go to his other client who needed him more, my horse was a hack winner and I didn't need him there to watch me do something I have done a hundred times before.

It turns out that in that flat class my horse fell down going around the corner and the EMT had to rush me out of the ring. Thank god my trainer decided not to leave me and snuck back around to the other side of the ring to watch so he could be there to comfort me! I just think it's kinda funny. You should always expect the unexpected, lol. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

~BenRidin

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BenRidin:
And what if disaster strikes and the rider falls when the trainer isn't there? Do you blame it on the fact that she had no trainer standing by the ring?

No, I blame it on an accident or a missed distance or the horse slipping. The trainer's presence makes no difference.

How is the trainer supposed to know what happend? How can the trainer know what to work on during the next lesson; how can they know that their student is ready to move up?

Well, presumably, the rider can still speak after a fall, so the trainer wouldn't have any trouble finding out what happened. As for what to work on in the next lesson, or how to know when a student is ready to move up, that does NOT require the trainer's presence at EVERY round for EVERY class.

If people go in the ring without trainers that totally defeats the purpose of even having one.

Oh, I see. You're saying that you pay your trainer just to watch you, not to teach you at home? Hmmmm...........

I know my trainer would be very upset if I went in the ring without him (unless he gave me permission because he was busy and it was a very small, insignificant class that he knew I could do in my sleep) and I would be with a different trainer if my current one told me to go ahead and go do the junior jumpers on my own while he is out in the pony ring with someone else.

So because you have a junior jumper, you're more important than that pony rider? What if the pony rider falls? Does she not deserve someone there to comfort her? Or because you're doing a bigger class that's more important to YOU, you believe you have priority? Okay................

~BenRidin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

butkrustag
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:17 AM
One of the most important things seems to be missing here...Yes you are a paying customer, but you are paying for FEEDBACK, which is hard to get if your trainer isn't watching you. A video is great, but that isn't going to do you much good when your next trip is 5 minutes away. A set of eyes on the ground is a good thing no matter how experienced of a rider you are.

I do agree if you having been showing a while you should be able to handle a hack.

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:21 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CuteHunter:
Like Nickelodian, I am a paying customer so i want to my coach to see everything I do in the ring so we can improve upon it later. It is up to trainers to take a reasonable amount of clients to a show so they arent holding up rings or hire an assisstant trainer who can sit in in place of the coach. But to me, suggesting I should ride without my coach when I am paying my coach to be there doesn't seem like the right answer.

QUOTE]


Okay, let me get this straight. Your coach is there to teach you and your horse at home, to prep you both at the shows, but in addition, he/she has to still watch every move you make in every class? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif And is it right to delay the show and inconvenience other competitors (not to mention the judge!) because your second trip is coming up and you need your trainer there to watch, but he/she is tied up at the pony ring for God knows how long, because somebody ELSE'S trainer has a conflict too? And I know "everyone does it", but does that make it right? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

And where does it end?

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by butkrustag:
One of the most important things seems to be missing here...Yes you are a paying customer, but you are paying for FEEDBACK, which is hard to get if your trainer isn't watching you. A video is great, but that isn't going to do you much good when your next trip is 5 minutes away. A set of eyes on the ground is a good thing no matter how experienced of a rider you are.

I do agree if you having been showing a while you should be able to handle a hack.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent points, both. And I agree that the feedback is necessary for progression. But on EVERY round and EVERY class? For EVERY student? It just seems an unrealistic expectation. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Someone made a suggestion about a trainer limiting the number of clients they take to a show or hiring an assistant trainer to take the place at ringside. But then the issue is raised that "Well, I deserve THE trainer because I'm doing junior jumpers" or "My little Susie needs THE trainer because this is her first show", and then watch the clients fight! Whoooeeeee! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

dogchushu
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:30 AM
Because how is the judge to place the class if she can't see the BNTs whooping it up at the in gate? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

In my (very limited) experience trainers don't help you ride while you're out there. They watch your ride in order to give you a good analysis of what happened. What you did right, what you can do to improve, and why you placed where you did. Often there's a really small difference between 1st place and a lower ribbon that the rider may not be aware of. Also, how the rider perceives the course and how it looks to an outside observer can be different. So you want feedback from someone who saw your round. When one small bobble can make the difference between a ribbon and nothing, you want that feedback from a trained outside observer.

Sometimes trainers will offer a few suggestions while you're out there--especially for the younger kids or beginners. But, for the most par, you can only hear them when you're right next to them at the in gate, so it doesn't really affect your ride that much.

Some trainers are bad about holding up the ring, and even with my limited experience you get to know who they are. But most try not to. They don't want to be there all day either.

Trainers will try to put their riders in different places in the line up so one will be done long before the other starts. But the best laid plans often go awry. For example, someone could fall off and hold up the ring right before your rider goes.Or their student takes a tumble in the warm up ring right before she's supposed to go in and they'd like her to get a couple good fences in to steady her nerves. Or they schedule a rider to go first in a class and, at the last minute, management decides the ring needs to be dragged again. So even a trainer who tries really hard not to hold up a ring may do so occassionally.

My trainer would never hold up a ring in order to watch another advanced rider in something like a hack class. However, for a walk trot class with a little beginner kid or a nervous beginner adult, she does want to be there--those are often the riders who need the most support. As that nervous beginner adult, I like having her watch--if only to know that someone is there to shout out instructions if I get in trouble. But the more advanced riders hack without her there all the time.

At many of the shows I've attended, management will state which ring has priority and that helps keep things going. But not all shows do that.

Why don't shows enforce the 2 minute rule especially for the trainers that are really flagrant about holding up the ring? I have no idea. Maybe it's because they think no one else does so they don't want to be the first one to piss off the BNT. Or maybe because they don't want to call it for one trainer whose held up the ring while his student takes yet another warm up fence that could have been taken earlier and then not be able to hold the ring for the trainer who has been trying really hard to keep things moving but had a student just take a tumble in the warm up. Or maybe they just have a spineless wimp running the in gate. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Some shows really work hard to keep things moving. I went to groom for a friend's daughter at the Maryland Horse and Pony show recently. I mostly only saw the pony ring (where my friend's daughter was riding) and the only time the ring was empty was when they were resetting the jumps or dragging it. The gate crew was really firm about getting one rider lined up before the other left the ring. They also had a dotted line on course to keep riders from having gargantuan courtesy circles. Even with that, the show day was long only because I think 8 billion ponies where there that day!



"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

MissingInAction
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:33 AM
As aside from everything else being said, my parents pay too much money to not have the trainer there when I am riding. My trainer is always there for any over fences classes but she knows that I can handle any flat class or flat phase because it is basically the same every time(ie. walk, trot, canter, or any variation of the three) so if she really needs to be somewhere else she can. She does, however, try to position us on the jumping order to help things run more smoothly, like having us go first if she needs to go to another ring soon or having us go last if she needs to go right now.

×Val×
http://community.webshots.com/user/falcon3888

Bugs-n-Frodo
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:33 AM
I was fortunate enough to be at a barn where I was the only senior rider. My coach did not end up holding up classes for me. I have to say, I wanted her to atleast watch my over fences rounds because I was always in a division. After my first round, she would comment on what I needed to fix for my second round.

I am not saying it is right to hold up classes, especially because it inconveniences so many people. My coach would have her student wait to do their rounds if she was with another client, it was never a problem because the classes were big. We had many students showing in the children's hunter/ juniors so most of her students were in the same class anyway.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Amy
Owned by:
Cute as a Bugsear (Bugs) JC OTTTB (Isella x Annie Somebody)
Pippen (Frodo) ATA Anglo Trakehner (Paramoure x Cute as a Bugsear)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:35 AM
Thank you. Your reply has made the most sense so far. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And I LOVED the comment about BNT'S at the in gate. TOO TRUE! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Nickelodian
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:38 AM
I guess thats where you have to try to work with paddock masters to work it out. Yes it doesn't always, but I feel like other competitors understand the plight..to a point. Now if a trainer is training ponys in one ring and has A/As in another ring, that trainer CERTAINLY shouldn't wait to do both at the end, but every rider desereves equal attention.

When BenRidin says she wouldn't go into the ring b/c her trainer is at the pony ring, she's not saying she's more important than the pony rider, she's saying she's not going to go to AFTER he's done with the pony rider. So hopefully, The pony rider went early, so trainer can go back to jumper ring, watch the jumper round w/o holding anything up. Now it doesn't always work this way, but usually it somehow works itself out. Riders move up or down with ease (and the help of a good paddock).

I think something that IS missed sometimes is good communication from the trainer to the paddock. I was riding in a local show earlier this year, and my trainer had a couple of poeple in the Beg. Rider classes outside. The beg riders had been signed up to go first, so we planned on doing the A/A later. Well the paddock kept moving the beg down on the list, and it eventually ended up holdign up the A/A ring. So we all try to work it out...and sometimes it just doesn't!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I survived!

sweetnlo
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:47 AM
Exactly, paying big bucks for feed back and WHOO WHOO WHOOP, disaster factor irrelavent, but I do also vent my frusterations at my trainer after what is IMHO a "not so pretty performance" she tries to convince me not to be disgusted w/ myself. I get a head ache just thinking about standing at the gate with my trainer.

Madeline
Sep. 28, 2003, 09:44 AM
I think you guys are WAY too dependent on your trainers! Showing horses is not brain surgery. It's a SPORT. You're supposed to be doing it for FUN. With that in mind, I guess that if I had a BNT and was paying big bucks to have them watch, I would not appreciate being blown off. BUT being there is the TRAINER's responsibility. Planning and time management are their job.

Big shows have become an exercise in management kissing up to the trainers at the expense of the judges, the other exhibitors and the (God forbid that we should care)spectators.

If the trainers knew in advance that rings would run on schedule, and that holds would not be tolerated unless someone was having an arterial bleeding problem in the ring, they would learn to organize their people and be where they needed to be to stroke the appropriate egos and hold the necessary hands.

Name another legitimate sport where the trainers control the timetable of the competition at the expense of officials, spectators and other exhibitors. Maybe this is why horse shows are perceived as a sport for dressed up dilettantes.

In the old days, before trainers took over the world, you checked in at the gate, waited your turn, and went in when called. If you weren't there, you dropped to the bottom of the list. The ring was never empty. If you weren't there at the end, you didn't go. Period. Just like other real sports.

Trainers, count your blessings with the 2 minute rule. In ski racing you have 30 seconds from when you're called to be in the starting gate. If you miss it, you are DQ'd. No recourse. Coach not there? Do you want to race or not? I believe pro golfers are DQ'd for missing a tee time. No slack there. Race horses are scratched by the stewards for being late to the paddock. Planes take off whether you're on them or not.

Exhibitors and trainers just need to become more self-disciplined and more responsible for themselves.

That would make shows much nicer for those of us who are "privateers."

madeline

Clydejumper
Sep. 28, 2003, 10:01 AM
When you pay your trainer for the horse show, they had darn well better be there to watch every round you do. It may take up time for the trainer to be at several different rings and slow down the progress of the show, the trainers move as quickly as possible between the rings. Most also let the clients know where they will be and to be patient. They are taking you to a show to show your weaknesses and your strengths. They can't do that if you go in by yourself, video tapes are great for after the show, but they can't tell you as you go around the turn to move up or slow down. Shows unfortunately are a long procedure.

Flying Horse Feathers

dogchushu
Sep. 28, 2003, 10:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madeline:
Name another legitimate sport where the trainers control the timetable of the competition at the expense of officials, spectators and other exhibitors.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just off the top of my head, football and basketball have plenty of time outs called by coaches (and by players to go consult with coaches). Why else would the final 2 minutes last longer than the entire rest of the game? Baseball coaches call time to go talk to the pitcher--or to go kick dirt on the umpire! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I'm not sure what happens in other judged-performance sports since I only see them at the top level. But I doubt gymnasts or figure skaters regularly go out there without their coaches watching.

In all seriousness, I don't think trainers should be allowed to hold up the ring to the extent some do. But the question of "why do you need your trainer watching" is different from "what's the best way to keep the rings moving." It's a bit unfair to label all those who prefer to have their trainers watch their rounds as overly dependent.



"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

[This message was edited by dogchushu on Sep. 28, 2003 at 01:32 PM.]

Kerby
Sep. 28, 2003, 10:31 AM
I am a paying customer, and want my trainer to watch me. But I have also been sent into the hunter ring by my trainer, who said she'll watch from across the jumper ring, and talk to me later about my rounds. I wanted to show, it was on one of her young horses, and I was not there for ribbons, only for miles for the horse, so I didn't care. One of the other clients hung out with me in Hunterland, and told me what he saw, (even though he is a jumper rider, it was nice of him to say something) I knew my mistakes, with or without trainer (or friend), so I did my rounds, and flat class with out a trainer. If anything went wrong I had friends nearby (most wanted to see the greenie go around).

However I think if you are entered in a show, then you are a good enough rider, and if you are a good enough rider to be showing then you don't need someone to watch the U/S class. I know a trainer (at our show) who had an adult U/S and a young rider U/S going on at once, and made the one ring hold it until he got there. After about 20 min the show management came over and said ( to themselves) screw this, run the U/S, we later recieved a letter (from the client) complaining that the class was run without the trainer. I persoanlly think if you can't walk trot and canter your horse alone, then you shouldn't be showing, go home and learn to do it alone, then come show. ( Of course this is only for shows with more than one ring, like our shows have 4 rings, and the above trainer makes hunter and jumper rings hold up for him... grrr)

Now our barn takes alot of students to shows, and we have two different trainers, and one will do hunters other jumpers, or one will do smaller hunters and jumpers, and the other will do the bigger hunters and jumpers, depending on the ring lay out, and schedule. But the trainers always place the kids in the class so it doesn't conflict with other rings, and if it does, the trainers will always let the ingates know. I can't remember a time when our barn has held up the ring.

I think its all in the way the trainer/trainers organize their students.

I know some shows will not allow hold ups. (think Spruce meadows) the class starts at this time and ends at this time, and if you are not there for your posted order of go, tough. You get to the warm up ring late with only two horses before you, you better warm up darn fast, cause they aren't moving you. (The only exception to this is if your horse #1 and your horse #2 are really close together, then they may move you a horse or two to make it easier to switch.)

Alas the joys of horse shows. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

**Founder of the Albertan clique. Member of the greenie clique, Canadian clique and 80's clique (whether they want me or not!!)and the new "I-kant-spell-worth-c*ap clique" **

** http://community.webshots.com/user/niftyneedles (Team Mule photo now posted.. weeheehee!)**

[This message was edited by Kerby on Sep. 28, 2003 at 01:43 PM.]

LuvTheDutch
Sep. 28, 2003, 10:36 AM
I expect my trainer to be around to help me prep for the class. Help me in the warm-up, go over the course, then I want them to leave me alone. Infact, I don't want anyone around me when I'm getting ready to go in the ring. I would rather watch a few rounds, play the course out in my head, take some deep breaths on my end, and prepare to go in the ring. If the trainer is around to see the course, that's fine. If not, I usually know enough people that are there and they can usually tell me what they thought of the course. There are a few times where I have no clue why one line road the way it did and then, of course, there are the days where I know darn well what I did wrong and I would rather not be hounded on it as it usually is a stupid mistake that I can fix with better judgement. I pay for a trainer to prep me and be handy if I need them, otherwise, where ever they end up with their other students is fine with me.

SportHorseBreedr@aol.com

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 11:37 AM
Finally, a voice of reason and independance! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If there were more clients like you who were not slavishly dependant upon their trainers, I strongly suspect the hunter world as a whole would be a much more pleasant place. One, in fact, that I'd be tempted to inhabit. But coming from an eventing background where trainer interference can get you disqualified, and a dressage background where any "help" while you're in the ring has a similar result, I guess I learned to be independant early. I really feel sorry for those who can't seem to breathe at a show without a trainer telling them whether they did it properly or not! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

My greatest compliment as a trainer is when my clients feel secure enough to go to a whole show without me, and then tell me what happened and how we might improve it at their next lesson. I've been blessed with several of these, and nothing makes me prouder. After all, at the end of the day, it's just horse and rider in there, working together to exhibit what the trainer has taught them. I love it when my folks can go to a show and get compliments on their horse's training and their riding and I'm not even there. Tells me I've done my job, and done it very, very well. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

HSM
Sep. 28, 2003, 11:39 AM
In my experience it has not been simply the conflict between rings that causes the problem, but rather the attitude of certain individuals that the world should wait for them, no matter what.

Our trainer often brings a large group of people competing in many different classes, and makes every effort to have her customers put themselves into the order of go in a way that she can always be where she needs to be. It takes some thought and planning, and doesn't ALWAYS work, but it can be done for the most part. And, if she's at an ingate with her rider(s) ready to go, if someone else ahead of her in the order is not ready, she's always the first one to volunteer to keep things moving by sending her riders in early.

On the other hand, there are those trainers who insist on keeping their riders in the warm-up ring for absolutely as long as possible regardless of the need. At one big show this summer, our ring was held up for the longest time over and over because one trainer insisted on taking his/her students back into the warm-up area in between each and every class, seemingly with the plan of always going last every time. And this was a 3'6" class, with riders who were far from green.

The 2 minute rule should DEFINITELY have been applied here.

------------------------------
I'm just the mom....

Madison
Sep. 28, 2003, 01:00 PM
Some trainers manage it well, and some trainers have a "the world can wait for me - I'll be there when I get there attitude". I have no problem with the trainers who let the different rings know they have a conflict, and make arrangements to handle that conflict. What I disagree with are the ones that don't bother to make arrangements and expect the division to be held up til whenever they make it down there.

Also, it is an unfair generalization to say that wanting your trainer to observe your rounds is equivalent to dependence on your trainer. Not saying it is not true in some cases, but in the vast majority (including mine) it is that shows are a) part of the training program and b) supposed to be a learning experience, and you want your trainer to provide feedback while you still remember what you did in that round and how it felt. That's what I'm paying for.

IMO, however, no hack class should be held up to wait for a trainer if the horse and rider aren't otherwise in another ring. Ring-hopping absolutely can be managed, but it requires the trainer making a concerted effort. Unfortunately, not all of them do, and that's when the problems arise.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://community.webshots.com/user/madisonav

BenRidin
Sep. 28, 2003, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:

_Well, presumably, the rider can still speak after a fall, so the trainer wouldn't have any trouble finding out what happened. As for what to work on in the next lesson, or how to know when a student is ready to move up, that does NOT require the trainer's presence at EVERY round for EVERY class. _<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not everyone is as gifted as you might be that they know everything that is happening. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif The whole point of having a trainer is to tell you what happend and how to fix it.. what if the people don't know what they did wrong?



_Oh, I see. You're saying that you pay your trainer just to watch you, not to teach you at home? Hmmmm..........._

Thanks for the sarcasm but I never said that. Why are you trying to find the hidden meaning in my post? There is none. If you don't like something I say you don't have to make sarcastic little comments about it. Take that attitude out on someone else please.


_So because you have a junior jumper, you're more important than that pony rider?

Once again I never said anything of the sort. I'm saying those courses aren't exactly the easiest thing that a kid could be doing so I would not go out in the ring without my trainers support and him telling me any last second thoughts he has on riding the course. Even grand prix riders have trainers and they listen to what they have to say about the course and what makes the course different challenging because of the horse they are on.


What if the pony rider falls? Does she not deserve someone there to comfort her?
Or because you're doing a bigger class that's more important to YOU, you believe you have priority? Okay................_ I never said that. My post didn't even have an attitude suggesting that I felt that way. I never said anything about which class is more important. I was using each class as an example for something and not saying that I wouldn't want to have to wait for pony classes.. I just wouldn't want to have to go in the ring with my trainer at a different one. Of course I wait for him to get done with the pony kids in that situation.

Stop trying to find the deeper meaning of my post. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gifI said what I said. It looks like I am not the only one you do that to.

Not every rider starts in the ring a seasoned rider who knows their horse. You expect green amatuers to walk in there and know what is happening every step of the way and why their horse did that wrong or ran out at jump number 7?

And lastly - this 'unrealistic expectation' you think is so ludicrous seems to work for hundreds of hunter/jumper riders and trainers. Just because it doesn't fit for your program doesn't mean you have to bash everyone else's. Part of being a successful trainer is being organized and knowing when their kids go in each class and being able to be there to help them, and taking the time to help everyone - not just who they think deserves it more.
~BenRidin

Kestrel
Sep. 28, 2003, 04:47 PM
ESG= another poo-stirring eventer snob wanting to stick it to hunter riders. Your "Question about trainers and "ring hopping"" was just another opening to start mud-slinging. Obviously you don't really want information, you just want to be condescending. Can't be nice, go back to the eventing board.

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 05:12 PM
Shows how much you know, Kestrel. I'm always interested in learning how other people's minds work, and why they put up with the stuff they do. I do jumpers, thank you very much, as well as dressage, so don't tell me where to go or what board to frequent. If I ask a legitimate question, I feel I deserve a legitimate answer. Many on this board have obliged me. Just because you're not inclined to do so, doesn't mean that I'm being condescending or rude.

Get a life, will you? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 05:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BenRidin:

Not every rider starts in the ring a seasoned rider who knows their horse. You expect green amatuers to walk in there and know what is happening every step of the way and why their horse did that wrong or ran out at jump number 7?

I see, you're a green amateur that's doing the junior jumpers? Get a life, will you? If you're up to doing the junior jumpers, you damn well better KNOW why your horse ran out at jump # 7. Otherwise, you're doing EXACTLY what I assumed you were doing and letting your trainer do your thinking and riding for you.


And lastly - this 'unrealistic expectation' you think is so ludicrous seems to work for hundreds of hunter/jumper riders and trainers. Just because it doesn't fit for your program doesn't mean you have to bash everyone else's. Part of being a successful trainer is being organized and knowing when their kids go in each class and being able to be there to help them, and taking the time to help everyone - not just who they think deserves it more.
~BenRidin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not the "successful trainers" I have a problem with. It's the ones who think God and everyone else on the showgrounds should wait for them and their clients whenever they deign to show up for a class, and hold the rings indefinitely until they do. Do me a favour, will you? Actually READ my posts and don't take everything so personally. Unless, of course, it applies.............................http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

AOHunter2002
Sep. 28, 2003, 05:25 PM
ESG: i think this is the same issue that is being discussed in the thread that Mary wrote "what is the point of h/j competitions?" Its the way you phrased your question, and then when someone gave you a polite answer, you argued with her about it!(BenRidin)

I for one, feel more comfortable when my trainer is at the back gate. I can worry about trying to put in a great round and let him watch my mistakes and then tell me what i can improve on for my next round. And in your original post, you said why do HUNTER trainers insist on being at he back gate for every round...i think you'll find the same in the jumper ring! And the jumper ring has gate holds aswell due to trainer conflicts...its not just the hunter rings. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Altho maybe i wouldnt have stated it the same way as kestrel did, i do have to agree...it seems like you just wanted to get some people fired up. All this stuff needs to stop! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

~*~"When your horse greets you with a nicker, nuzzles your chest, and regards you with a large and liquid eye, the question of where you want to be and what you want to do has been answered"~*~

Anne
Sep. 28, 2003, 05:26 PM
ESG you would have then been better served to ask why some hunter/jumper trainers have a God complex. I've often wondered that myself.

I agree that if I am paying, the trainer better be at the ingate for my trips. *NO* rider, I don't care if it's Margie or McLean or Susie Amateur, can feel everything from the saddle - that's why people like Margie and McLean work with groundmen.

Keep in mind, ESG, that in the hunters getting over the jump isn't enough; style counts. The stylistic nuances of a horse's jump are often much easier to observe from the ground than to feel from the saddle.

Could we please stop this perceived bashing of other disciplines? It does no one any good. ESG if you have a complaint about one of your horse shows running over, talk to the management! Don't attempt to bash an entire discipline on a public message board.

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 05:28 PM
I'm sorry you interpreted my question that way. I'm sincerely trying to understand the mentality that permits this sort of behaviour. I simply can't imagine someone letting their trainer do their thinking and riding for them, even if it's by proxy and watching from the sidelines. I thought a trainer's job was to TEACH someone to ride and ride well, and how to best interact with their horse. I do that, and I'm able to let my students go to shows knowing that they'll retain what I've taught both them and their mounts.

Sorry if you've not had the same experience of trainers. The best ones know how to let go. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Just MHO................. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

AOHunter2002
Sep. 28, 2003, 05:29 PM
ESG...looks like we posted at the same time...your last post was rude! Benriding was giving EXAMPLES...not saying she was a green amatuer who was doing the junior jumpers. Why do you care so damn much if you dont show in the hunters? please, stop telling everyone else on here to get a life http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~*~"When your horse greets you with a nicker, nuzzles your chest, and regards you with a large and liquid eye, the question of where you want to be and what you want to do has been answered"~*~

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne:
ESG you would have then been better served to ask why some hunter/jumper trainers have a God complex. I've often wondered that myself.


I agree. There are lots of trainers out there who would rather their clients not take a step without them. I, thank God, do not count myself among them. My students are equally grateful.


I agree that if I am paying, the trainer better be at the ingate for my trips. *NO* rider, I don't care if it's Margie or McLean or Susie Amateur, can feel everything from the saddle - that's why people like Margie and McLean work with groundmen.

Sorry, but I'm going to take issue with that. I'd like to see the person who tries to second-guess Margie after one of her rounds and come out with a whole skin!

Keep in mind, ESG, that in the hunters getting over the jump isn't enough; style counts. The stylistic nuances of a horse's jump are often much easier to observe from the ground than to feel from the saddle.

I agree, style counts. But so does horsemanship and an accurate ride. And IMHO, if you have to wait for a judge to tell you whether the fruits of your labors are worth a ribbon or not,.......well, that tells me your trainer isn't doing his/her job. You should KNOW before going into the ring that your equitation and presentation of your horse is more than adequate to the task at hand. Otherwise, why waste the time and money to show against those as well or better prepared than you?

Could we please stop this perceived bashing of other disciplines? It does no one any good. ESG if you have a complaint about one of your horse shows running over, talk to the management! Don't attempt to bash an entire discipline on a public message board.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No one is bashing hunters. To each his/her own. Just because I don't choose to do hunters doesn't mean the discipline is without merit. If I had a horse that would do well in the regular working, I would do that in a heartbeat. But I don't, so I don't. But just because I question the workings of a show and the attitude of the trainers bringing their clients there doesn't mean that I think the entire hunter discipline is without merit. It just means that some trainers need to get off their a$$ and on their feet and think about someone else besides themselves and their own clients.

'Nuff said.................... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

DMK
Sep. 28, 2003, 05:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madison:
Also, it is an unfair generalization to say that wanting your trainer to observe your rounds is equivalent to dependence on your trainer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not so, Madison! I KNOW that Anne Kursinski simply cannot make it around a GP course unless The George is there. I am quite confident that she does not use him as another set of eyes to see from a different viewpoint what she feels while she rides th ecourse. I'm pretty sure it's because she is trainer-dependent. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And sometimes ring hold ups are a function of ring priority. A trainer might very well want to come take care of a client in the hunter ring, but show management has deemed it OK for the hunter ring to go on hold if it keeps the jumper ring clocking right along. Show management is actually quite smart this way. They know if the jumper ring HAS to move smoothly and quickly if they are to get out before dark, then they damn sure better make it a priority over other rings. There has been MANY an occassion when I was ready, my ring was ready, and my trainer was ready, but the ring manager at the jumper ring was holding him hostage because he had another horse up in 6...

Last but not least, insofar as a hunter round is concerned, it is about the nth degree of perfection. Not the nth minus 2 degrees, but the nth degree. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif This means that warm up isn't about warming your horse up so he is physically ready to jump a course at X height, but that he has been prepped to jump as well as he can jump any jump. Never mind the ammies, even the pros come to the ring with a good ground person to set jumps, move jumps, widen oxers, change heights, drape coolers over, drop placement rails and whatever else is required to craft that "perfect" jump. If you think ring delays are bad now, can you imagine how bad they would be if you had to get on and off every time you needed to make a change? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Amazingly enough at the upper levels where it looks like excessive trainer dependence, it is more about teamwork and having a great ground person. Of course I don't need a trainer to get around the course in the ring, but I need a trusted ground person who has a quality eye to help prep the horse to go into the ring, to discuss what happened after the fact, and maybe make a game plan for the next day/next show (stay the same, change X, let's do Y when we school tomorrow and see if that helps, and so on).

That is one of the things I have always wondered about... A lot of eventer folks pop over to the h/j board and "wonder" about "needing" the trainer to be able to navigate 8 fences, which makes me wonder how do eventers prep for stadium jumping?

I mean never mind just having someone who will physically skinny up the oxer for your last schooling fence, wouldn't it be helpful to know that today your horse is rolling his right shoulder when you jump off the right lead. Just that "eyes on the ground" telling you it seems to help when you support him a little more than usual all the way to the base on that lead doesn't exactly seem like the end of the world in horsemanship terms to me (see Anne Kursinski discussion above). More like a way to be a bit better than you might have been on your own.

Call your village. Their idiot is missing...

AOHunter2002
Sep. 28, 2003, 05:40 PM
how about you go talk to those said trainers.... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

no hard feelings here- i am just sick of feeling like i have to always defend the discipline i work so hard to do well in. The recent threads on these boards that have been attacking hunters has made me not want to post here anymore- too much bickering! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif
Katie

~*~"When your horse greets you with a nicker, nuzzles your chest, and regards you with a large and liquid eye, the question of where you want to be and what you want to do has been answered"~*~

HunterUnderSaddle
Sep. 28, 2003, 05:42 PM
My opinion on this one is this:

Where in the world do you guys show? On the circuit I show on, if the trainers aren't watching their clients...screw it! The class goes on whether the trainer is there or not! In a show with 70+ classes per day, the show commitee, the exhibitors, and whoever else, does not have the time to wait around for some trainer who has taken more clients to the show than he/she can handle.

When I go to shows, I don't pay for my trainer to help me. Even though he is at the show with other clients, I don't bother paying him to help me throughout the day. I like the fact that I am totally independant of my trainer for the show weekend. My horse and I work through our problems on our own and do perfectly fine! I would encourage anyone to try going to a show without their trainer.
I like figuring out courses or figuring out how to ride my horse in a certain class by myself. And if I make a mistake because my trainer wasn't there to correct me, thats okay because the next round, I am going to try my darndest not to mess up again.


I'm not saying that ya'll do this, but I'd really hate to become one of those riders whose trainers ride their horses for them to get the horse "all fixed up" right before a class.

Hopeful Hunter
Sep. 28, 2003, 05:43 PM
oh, dear....THIS again *sigh* and I haven't even been on the boards all that long.

OK....although this has a whiff of trolling to me, I'll indulge the rather nasty, holier than thou attitude and explain why, for THIS low adult amateur hunter rider I prefer my trainer be at the ring.

First, notice I said PREFER. That does not mean I can't do a round without her -- I can and have. It means I prefer to have her there. And let me say that I find myself still a bit surprised to prefer that -- I went into this sport thinking I'd never be a rider who needed all that silly hand holding -- heck I'm even attempting to go and show without schooling IN THE RING at 6:30 am beforehand (but that's another poste) -- and lo and behold...sometimes I am. Because I've learned it's not all silly hand holding.

The reason I prefer my trainer to be there is because while I can often tell what went wrong, I can't sometimes tell EXACTLY what it caused it. And, more important, I often don't know what went right. My trainer, watching the round, can say "yes, that line was off -- it was because right around the corner you lost impulsion a bit and then kicked him up and changed the distance in when you did" or say "that bending line was perfect because you let him go and floated him down." Both things -- the error and the proper riding, benefit me when they're pointed out.

I know several times I've come out of a first round I didn't love to be told it wasn't that bad, but if you just A,B and C it will improve, and have gone back in to a much improved second round. And twice that got me a championship and a reserve. So...the coaching DOES count.

Now, she doens't stay for the hacks if she has students in other rings. And if she's got a ton of kids, or someone who is new, or something, I'll often TELL her "go on and I'll just see how it goes" and we discuss it after. Often we will see how the rings are moving and try to put our numbers in where it will allow her to ring hop. And the gate crew will work with you if you alert them to a need to move up or down. We don't hold rings for more than a few minutes, unlike a few local trainers here do (which DOES steam me!) and ALL of her students are OK to go in alone if it's truly necessary.

So.....time managment, good prep of your riders and careful coordination with the gate crew should allow most trainers to handle watching nearly all of their clients o/f rounds, imo. Hope that helps.

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 05:46 PM
If eventing were about style, I would agree with you. But it isn't. It's about being able to get through a dressage test (that's where the "style" comes in, as well as exhibiting how well your horse is broke on the flat), AND negotiate cross country obstacles, AND be able to showjump.

If you look at a typical eventing showjumping course, there are very few related distances. And if you look at last year's Medal finals course, you would see NO related distances. GM himself applauded this course, commenting on how dependant many equitation riders had become on being able to "count strides", and in the face of NOT being able to do that, were unable to successfully negotiate the course. That's from GM, NOT me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

So before anyone bashes anyone else about discipline, let's think about what God (aka, GM) says about the sport and its evolution (or devolution, depending on whose perspective one utilizes).

BenRidin
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:01 PM
I really suggest you watch some of those kids ride. The top eq riders really know their stuff. They know how to ride off their eye, work with any distance they get, and make a hot horse look easy. (Of course not all, and they don't ahve to be on top to be able to do that either) Sure there are some of those posers who sit there and look pretty but there are also some excellent future olympic medalists in those classes.

I think you are trying to ask many different questions pertaining to hunters in one post under one question and it's getting people a little bit frazzled.

Yes there are trainers out there who think the entire show grunds can wait with them but it is not entirely their fault it is happening- no one did anything but wait for them. I think a time limit on an open gate should be set unless it is legitimate like trainers having clients and horses all over the place, and they explain their problem to the ingate people..

~BenRidin

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:08 PM
I HAVE watched "some of those kids" ride. And I've COACHED some of those kids riding. And I'm taking a leaf out of a top CO H/J trainer's book when I say that if an equitation rider (or an adult, ANY adult equipped to show) can't go into the ring, figure out what they did right/wrong and EXPLAIN it to him afterwards, THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO SHOW until they'd proven to him that they could accurately assess their own rides. To me, this equals "personal responsibility", and we all know how popular that isn't any more. So don't bash me for wanting riders to be riders. I'm just amazed that "riders" allow their trainers to make them so very dependant that they won't make a move without them. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Lord Helpus
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
I'm really curious; why does (seemingly) every hunter trainer insist on being at every client's round at every ring at every show? I realize that the trainer would LIKE to see the culmination of your efforts together to improve your horse and yourself, but it always seems to be at the expense of the other competitors. Like mroades' post on how to make a judge angry in two easy steps - what is UP with that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is not what MRoades says at all. She says:

&lt;&lt;&lt; posted Sep. 27, 2003 09:37 PM
I have NEVER encountered a worse group of exhibitors as I did today. Step one) Wait until your class has started to mosey on up to the ring to school Step two) Do NOT learn your course until after you school, even though you have been there all daggum day and there are only the same two courses!!!! &gt;&gt;&gt;

She never mentions a trainer. Only an exhibitor who is late to the ring and has not bothered to look at the courses. For all we know from her post, the trainer was sitting at the back gate, waiting for the customer.

In truth, the vast majority of trainers have enough assistants to handle even the big 5 ring shows. If they do not then IMO their students should learn to go without their trainer or have the gate closed on them. After several shows like that, customers will find trainers who DO have enough time or staff to cover all the rings.

Yes, there are "trainer conflicts" and holdups due to trainers who cannot be in several places at once. But this generally occurs duing the "open" part of the show when the trainer is riding, not coaching. When the trainer is the one on many different horses, it does not matter how many assistants he/she has. Each horse must wait their turn for the trainer's time. And that does create holdups. Big shows are used to this and build these holdups into the time schedule when planning the first two days of a show. Even with a lot of empty ring time, the open days are usually over by 5 pm.

The issue of "why can't hunter riders ride without their trainer" has been covered ad nauseum. Why not do a search for those threads?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When life gives you crap, make crapenade.

Hopeful Hunter
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:15 PM
ESG, AS an adult rider, I'm going to call you on this one:
"I say that if an equitation rider (or an adult, ANY adult equipped to show) can't go into the ring, figure out what they did right/wrong and EXPLAIN it to him afterwards, THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO SHOW until they'd proven to him that they could accurately assess their own rides. To me, this equals "personal responsibility", and we all know how popular that isn't any more."

Bull Feathers. Period. WHERE may I ask are those adults supposed to GET that ability to know what went right or wrong from? Magic? Practice at home? Wrongo! Home is NOT a show, and NOT EVERYONE can tell what happens in those three minutes on course. Heck, a friend of mine used to do synchronised swimming -- she can literally hold her breath through an entire course -- which is fine, but she can't do that AND remember how anything felt! Should she then never show, because she might get nervous and not be able to report back?

I may NEVER be able to "accurately assess my ride." So by your standard, should I never show? Don't even go there -- this isn't personal responsibility you're touting, it's some kind of odd, perverse and frankly unkind elitism.

I work HARD at my riding. But...I'm not very good. And I won't likely ever be very good. I won't likely ever be able to know exactly what I did wrong. Should that mean I never show in your book?

I have to ask here -- how do your clients place? With these kinds of standards I hope they never come home with anything less than maybe a third, because if you can and do indeed keep clients to these ideals they are either nearly professional in their proficiency or else very scarce on the ground, imo.

Lord Helpus
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:

My greatest compliment as a trainer is when my clients feel secure enough to go to a _whole show without me, _ and then tell me what happened and how we might improve it at their next lesson. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But how can you, or the client, KNOW what truly happened without a set of knowledgable eyes from the side of the ring? Does the client know when the horse split its front legs? Or was slightly late with a leg and so was not even at the top of the arc? Was the client sensitive enough to know if the horse swapped off in front of a fence? Or the horse unfolded too soon and reached for the ground? What if the client is the type with a corner cutting problem, and SHE thinks that she had solved the problem becuase she was working on it. But, in reality, she still had her weight on the inside stirrup and the horse was "motorcycling" around the corner?

Without a ground person with a sophisticated eye watching the round, a client might come back and say that hewr rounds were lovely and the judge had his head screwed on backwards because she did not place as high as she thought she should. You will have no idea what really went on at the show. Or, indeed, how to fix it, if you had not been there.

The only way I would go to a show without a trainer is if I was on such a greenie that showing him the atmosphere and introducing him to "show jumps" was my goal. THEN, with such a low level of expectation (jump 8 jumps from moderate spots, in a medium canter, getting all lead changes) even I, as the rider, can tell if I have achieved my goals or if I have had a problem.

But that is the kindergarten or basic survival level of showing. Riding hunters has so many more levels of subtlety, that even the very top riders in the world have, and need, ground people to see what the rider cannot.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When life gives you crap, make crapenade.

elizabeth
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hopeful Hunter:
ESG, AS an adult rider, I'm going to call you on this one:
"I say that if an equitation rider (or an adult, ANY adult equipped to show) can't go into the ring, figure out what they did right/wrong and EXPLAIN it to him afterwards, THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO SHOW until they'd proven to him that they could accurately assess their own rides. To me, this equals "personal responsibility", and we all know how popular that isn't any more."

Bull Feathers. Period. WHERE may I ask are those adults supposed to GET that ability to know what went right or wrong from?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hopefuly Hunter, I am with ESG on this one.

Rarely do I foul up a course and not have a good sense of how I accomplished such fouling. I don't need a trainer to tell me that my failure to ride forward out of the corner led to my super-crappy first fence. Nor do I need said trainer to point out that had I actually asked for the change in a timely fashion, I likely would have gotten it in a timely fashion. And so on.

If I were successfully competing at the bigger A shows in the adults on a fancy, super-competitive hunter, then maybe I would need a trainer at the ring ever time for the purposes discussed by DMK. Maybe then I would be out of the tri-colors due to super-subtle errors only seen by a ground-person. But I'm not there. (At the bigger A shows making subtle errors, that is.) And I suspect most of us out here are not.

So, as I rage around in the non-A ring, making my unsophisticated, not-particularly-nuanced (hell, blatant) errors, I likely can pinpoint them in the absence of a trainer, if the trainer is held up at another ring.

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hopeful Hunter:
ESG, AS an adult rider, I'm going to call you on this one:
"I say that if an equitation rider (or an adult, ANY adult equipped to show) can't go into the ring, figure out what they did right/wrong and EXPLAIN it to him afterwards, THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO SHOW until they'd proven to him that they could accurately assess their own rides. To me, this equals "personal responsibility", and we all know how popular that isn't any more."

Bull Feathers. Period. WHERE may I ask are those adults supposed to GET that ability to know what went right or wrong from? Magic? Practice at home? Wrongo! Home is NOT a show, and NOT EVERYONE can tell what happens in those three minutes on course.

As I said, this is not MY standard, but that of a top CO H/J rider/trainer who's also a GP jumper rider and just won two major national hunter titles. Sorry if that bothers you...............http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I may NEVER be able to "accurately assess my ride." So by your standard, should I never show? Don't even go there -- this isn't personal responsibility you're touting, it's some kind of odd, perverse and frankly unkind elitism.

No, it isn't. It's about being able to know how well you do or don't ride and do something about it. I mean really, do you HAVE to have your coach tell you "well, you were too deep to the first element of the combination and that's why the rest rode long"? Of course not. Use the brains God gave you, have a little more confidence in yourself and your horse's abilities and you'll go much, much further.

I work HARD at my riding. But...I'm not very good. And I won't likely ever be very good. I won't likely ever be able to know exactly what I did wrong. Should that mean I never show in your book?

No, it doesn't. It means that you should not depend so much on your trainer's perspective of what went wrong. Your trainer wasn't riding the horse; YOU were. If you get into a mess, are you telling me you don't know how you got there? If so, then your trainer isn't doing his/her job. Your trainer can't help you out on course; only you can. Feedback is fine, and necessary, but is NO substitute for thinking and accurately assessing the problems in a particular round and how to fix them.

I have to ask here -- how do your clients place? With these kinds of standards I hope they never come home with anything less than maybe a third, because if you can and do indeed keep clients to these ideals they are either nearly professional in their proficiency or else very scarce on the ground, imo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't give a rat's patoot about how my students place; that's a hunter judge's opinion and I could care less. I care MUCH, MUCH more about my student's abilities to accurately asses their own rides and tell ME what happened. The last hunter/jumper show I did, my student and I were rolling on the ground laughing after her first round. I told her "It was a "three bears round". The first line was too short (she ran to get the numbers and stil missed), the second line was too long (she added a stride), and the third line was just right" (she nailed it). Well, all the uptight HP's in the warmup were aghast at our mirth; IMAGINE being able to JOKE about NOT GETTING THE NUMBERS! AARRRGGGHH! So no, I don't care how my students place. I care about how they ride.

Anne
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:42 PM
ESG, I can tell you when I leave the ring that I chipped to jump 7, screwing up the last line.

My trainer could tell you that I let the horse build and slightly cut the corner, exacerbated by a slight left drift, which created the chip. It's the trainer's job to see these things and prompt a discussion of how to fix them.

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
THEN, with such a low level of expectation (jump 8 jumps from moderate spots, in a medium canter, getting all lead changes) even I, as the rider, can tell if I have achieved my goals or if I have had a problem.

Wait.....you have to have a JUDGE tell you whether or not you've achieved your goals, when YOU were the one riding the horse? You can't tell when the round felt good? Good God, do I ever feel sorry for you!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When life gives you crap, make crapenade.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message was edited by ESG on Sep. 28, 2003 at 10:34 PM.]

HunterUnderSaddle
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:50 PM
As said in my last post, in my opinion, i say that going to ANY show ( not just a hunter, OR jumper, but maybe just huntseat) without a trainer might be a great experience. It will help people become more aware of their mistakes and learn to figure out difficult situations by themselves. I'm not saying that everyone who takes a trainer to a show doesn't have good horsemanship skills, I'm just saying that its not hard to go to a show without a trainer. I've done it since I was 14 years old and I'm still going strong after four years!

Before a show I will talk to my trainer at home and get some useful pointers. @ the show, If I find I am not placing very high with a judge, I ask myself questions and go through a mental checklist in my head: Are my hands to high or too low? Is my horse moving from under me? Should I change my horse's bit?

This kind of thinking has really made me independant from my trainer at shows and makes me feel more confident that I can truely assess my riding by myself!

Nickelodian
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne:
ESG, I can tell you when I leave the ring that I chipped to jump 7, screwing up the last line.

My trainer could tell you that I let the horse build and slightly cut the corner, exacerbated by a slight left drift, which created the chip. It's the trainer's job to see these things and prompt a discussion of how to fix them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

EXTREMELY well said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I survived!

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 06:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne:
ESG, I can tell you when I leave the ring that I chipped to jump 7, screwing up the last line.

My trainer could tell you that I let the horse build and slightly cut the corner, exacerbated by a slight left drift, which created the chip. It's the trainer's job to see these things and prompt a discussion of how to fix them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, I see. You couldn't tell that you cut the corner and your horse was drifting left? And that you didn't maintain a steady pace to the jump? You mean to tell me that you needed your trainer to tell you this? Poor you...............http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BenRidin
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
I HAVE watched "some of those kids" ride. And I've COACHED some of those kids riding. And I'm taking a leaf out of a top CO H/J trainer's book when I say that if an equitation rider (or an adult, ANY adult equipped to show) can't go into the ring, figure out what they did right/wrong and EXPLAIN it to him afterwards, THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO SHOW until they'd proven to him that they could accurately assess their own rides. To me, this equals "personal responsibility", and we all know how popular that isn't any more. So don't bash me for wanting riders to be riders. I'm just amazed that "riders" allow their trainers to make them so very dependant that they won't make a move without them. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats why they have classes like the Ronnie Mutch equitation championship where the riders have to walk the course, school and go in the ring on their own. Thats when the real riders come out. Just because you CAN do it without your trainer doesn't mean you HAVE TO.

You make it sound like all your students are proffesionals before they are allowed to show. What are the lower level classes for then? Becuase I think if someone is good enough that they can know exactly what happend (like the other poster said - she can know that she chipped but the trainer is the one who pointed out that it happend because the horse was building on her around the corner) they shouldn't be in the classe below 3'6. We can certainly move without our trainers but why am I about to pay a fee at the show for my trainer schooling me if he isn't going to be there to watch my class. Sometimes I might get carried away on the course because I want to win so bad that it helps for my trainer to just be on the rail and tell me "calm down".

~BenRidin

Lord Helpus
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO SHOW until they'd proven to him that they could accurately assess their own rides. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One more time, ESG: No One can assess what they cannot see. Every single Grand Prix rider has a ground person at the rail when they go into the ring. And dependence is not the reason.

Please, whoever you are and whatever your background is, if you are truly here to learn from those of us who love doing the hunters and the jumpers (as you say you are), I think you will have more opportunity to find out what motivates us and challenges us if you truly read these polite and well thought out posts, instead of trying to discredit each poster.

If expanding you knowledge base is truly your motivation, you will attain your goal if you listen rather than talk back.

But if you continue to argue with each person who politely replies, then it seems obvious that your professed intention is not your actual one.

At that time you are no longer an honest equestrian on a search for understanding. You become just another poo stirrer.

Its your choice.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When life gives you crap, make crapenade.

Hopeful Hunter
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:04 PM
Oh, my.....maybe I should just slink off and never darken an in-gate again....

Is it just me, or is it getting REALLY difficult to be an adult rider without a super-fancy horse or outlandish talent who didn't ride as a kid, doesn't spend a fortune, isn't doing the "big" shows but still wants to win? And who has a trainer and isn't desperately dependent but really sometimes needs a bit of hand holding? Because that's me, and I'm feeling more and more unwelcome in cyberspace these days.

I'm sorry, I may simply ride MUCH worse than many of you when I show -- and I'm not being sarcastic, just honest -- but I can assure you that I am one rider who cannot accurately assess my rounds' pluses and minuses with sufficient insight to make the changes that might move me up in the next one. Can I tell I blew the distance? Of course. Can I tell I jumped in tight and then held too much? Naturally. Can I tell I did that because I collapsed ever so slightly left and let my inside hand open a smidge so my horse wasn't 100% straight on our track and just took an ever so tinier shorter stride into the corner? Not always.

I won't argue that perhaps I "should" be able to tell that. But you know what? I get nervous out there. My best ride ever I remember NOTHING about because it was a scary course to me and I just wanted not to die (we won, btw). And some things I literally CANNOT feel -- I have slight nerve damage in one foot and can't tell if the heel is up a bit (I compensate, but if I'm distracted I may not do it right).

Now, with all of this I've taken a horse fresh off the track and made him showable, even by a 13 year old who borrowed him and won her first ever time riding Children's Hunter, going Reserve. So I can't suck that much overall...Yet the reality is that while I can be an effective rider, I'm not a pretty one, and the mistakes I make can keep a nice horse out of the ribbons. So I want help not making those small, fussy, tiny errors.

See, I do want to do well. Those strides matter to me. That perfection is why I ride hunters. I don't get it - yet - but I want to. And you cannot get that without outside input.

If you don't care about those things, fine. But then, perhaps don't ride hunters, and certainly don't bash those who do, and who do care.

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
[The issue of "why can't hunter riders ride without their trainer" has been covered ad nauseum. Why not do a search for those threads?

.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, I'm sorry. I'll be sure to do a search for a topic the next time I have the temerity to ask a question.


Yeah, right. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

BenRidin
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne:
ESG, I can tell you when I leave the ring that I chipped to jump 7, screwing up the last line.

My trainer could tell you that I let the horse build and slightly cut the corner, exacerbated by a slight left drift, which created the chip. It's the trainer's job to see these things and prompt a discussion of how to fix them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

_Oh, I see. You couldn't tell that you cut the corner and your horse was drifting left? And that you didn't maintain a steady pace to the jump? You mean to tell me that you needed your trainer to tell you this? Poor you...............http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't even tell if you are being facetious or plain out rude or just joking around anymore but that is why these people aren't proffesionals and they have trainers. It takes a very seasoned rider to be able to tell all those things. I guess you were just never one of those people. You make it sound like the second you got on a course you went out and jumped a perfect course and never needed anyone to teach you how to do it better.

Another thing to consider is some people have horses that act very differently in the show ring than at home. Or what if your student is trying to tell you something they felt and you can't know what it was because you didn't see it (sometimes things feel a lot different than they look).


One of the same proffesionals you have previously quoted also said that showing is simply performing what you have learned and worked at. How can you know for certain those students are doing that if you can't watch?

~BenRidin

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO SHOW until they'd proven to him that they could accurately assess their own rides. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One more time, ESG: No One can assess what they cannot see. Every single Grand Prix rider has a ground person at the rail when they go into the ring. And dependence is not the reason.

If expanding you knowledge base is truly your motivation, you will attain your goal if you listen rather than talk back.

But if you continue to argue with each person who politely replies, then it seems obvious that your professed intention is not your actual one.

Excuse me, but discussing is not bashing. If you're that insecure about why you practice your discipline, that isn't my fault or my problem. I'm asking a question about why hunter/jumper riders are so dependant on their trainers watching their every move. You've been more than helpful about explaining why. I'm just wondering why intelligent, thinking people put up with that kind of cult mentality and can't seem to make a move without their trainers.

At that time you are no longer an honest equestrian on a search for understanding. You become just another poo stirrer.

Its your choice.
I see. Because I have the temerity to question what I don't understand, I'm a "poo stirrer"? ROFLMAO!!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When life gives you crap, make crapenade.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elizabeth:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hopeful Hunter:
ESG, AS an adult rider, I'm going to call you on this one:
"I say that if an equitation rider (or an adult, ANY adult equipped to show) can't go into the ring, figure out what they did right/wrong and EXPLAIN it to him afterwards, THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO SHOW until they'd proven to him that they could accurately assess their own rides. To me, this equals "personal responsibility", and we all know how popular that isn't any more."

Bull Feathers. Period. WHERE may I ask are those adults supposed to GET that ability to know what went right or wrong from?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hopefuly Hunter, I am with ESG on this one.

Rarely do I foul up a course and not have a good sense of how I accomplished such fouling. I don't need a trainer to tell me that my failure to ride forward out of the corner led to my super-crappy first fence. Nor do I need said trainer to point out that had I actually asked for the change in a timely fashion, I likely would have gotten it in a timely fashion. And so on.

If I were successfully competing at the bigger A shows in the adults on a fancy, super-competitive hunter, then maybe I would need a trainer at the ring ever time for the purposes discussed by DMK. Maybe then I would be out of the tri-colors due to super-subtle errors only seen by a ground-person. But I'm not there. (At the bigger A shows making subtle errors, that is.) And I suspect most of us out here are not.

So, as I rage around in the non-A ring, making my unsophisticated, not-particularly-nuanced (hell, blatant) errors, I likely can pinpoint them in the absence of a trainer, if the trainer is held up at another ring.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you for making my point for me so eloquently. My husband (a former open jumper rider and student of the aforementioned CO H/J trainer) applauds you as well. We both would like to say that if you keep on your present course (as indicated by your post), you won't NEED a fancy, super-competitive hunter, as you're well on your way to making your own.

VERY WELL DONE! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ESG
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BenRidin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne:
ESG, I can tell you when I leave the ring that I chipped to jump 7, screwing up the last line.

My trainer could tell you that I let the horse build and slightly cut the corner, exacerbated by a slight left drift, which created the chip. It's the trainer's job to see these things and prompt a discussion of how to fix them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

_Oh, I see. You couldn't tell that you cut the corner and your horse was drifting left? And that you didn't maintain a steady pace to the jump? You mean to tell me that you needed your trainer to tell you this? Poor you...............http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't even tell if you are being facetious or plain out rude or just joking around anymore but that is why these people aren't proffesionals and they have trainers. It takes a very seasoned rider to be able to tell all those things.

No, it doesn't. You mean to tell me that you do the junior jumpers and can't tell if your horse is drifting or whether or not you're maintaining a steady pace? That is BASICS! And if you can't do the basics, how in the world do you expect to be able to show successfully? No wonder you need a trainer to hold your hand.

Another thing to consider is some people have horses that act very differently in the show ring than at home.

If you haul and show as much as it sounds like, your horse shouldn't act differently at a show. If it does, better re-examine why and take steps to correct that.

One of the same proffesionals you have previously quoted also said that showing is simply performing what you have learned and worked at. How can you know for certain those students are doing that if you can't watch?

What "proffesionals" have I quoted that said that? I said that if a rider can't accurately assess what their problems were during a round, they have no business showing and wouldn't be allowed to show under that trainer again until they could. And how do I know my students are doing what I've taught them? Well, they have me for a trainer. God help them if they don't, and come home after a show and complain about their placings. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
~BenRidin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

2487lyf
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:56 PM
If you're paying them to be there, they should be there. It is hard to know exactly when each client is going to be showing, so you may put them in at what you think is going to be different times, but some divisions go faster than others, and you never quite know. It works best when there are 2 people who qualify as trainers at your barn, so one can school everyone, and the other can help at the rings, or 1 can do one ring (like ponies) and the other can do the other (like horses). They try hard (most do anyways... others don't give a darn) not to hold up the show, but it is not always possible. Now hack classes are a different story... your trainer should NOT have to be there to watch you walk, trot, canter both ways.

~*~Nattie~*~
*Maryland Clique*
*Non-GPA owners Clique!*
http://community.webshots.com/user/nattie2006

Lord Helpus
Sep. 28, 2003, 07:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
Good God, do I ever feel sorry for you!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh please don't waste time pitying me. I am fine, really I am. But you might want to check with your doctor about HRT. It will level you out so you do not become so emotionally involved over a total stranger.

BenRidin
Sep. 28, 2003, 08:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BenRidin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne:
ESG, I can tell you when I leave the ring that I chipped to jump 7, screwing up the last line.

My trainer could tell you that I let the horse build and slightly cut the corner, exacerbated by a slight left drift, which created the chip. It's the trainer's job to see these things and prompt a discussion of how to fix them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

_Oh, I see. You couldn't tell that you cut the corner and your horse was drifting left? And that you didn't maintain a steady pace to the jump? You mean to tell me that you needed your trainer to tell you this? Poor you...............http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't even tell if you are being facetious or plain out rude or just joking around anymore but that is why these people aren't proffesionals and they have trainers. It takes a very seasoned rider to be able to tell all those things.

_No, it doesn't. You mean to tell me that you do the junior jumpers and can't tell if your horse is drifting or whether or not you're maintaining a steady pace? That is BASICS! And if you can't do the basics, how in the world do you expect to be able to show successfully? No wonder you need a trainer to hold your hand. _

Another thing to consider is some people have horses that act very differently in the show ring than at home.

_If you haul and show as much as it sounds like, your horse shouldn't act differently at a show. If it does, better re-examine why and take steps to correct that. _

One of the same proffesionals you have previously quoted also said that showing is simply performing what you have learned and worked at. How can you know for certain those students are doing that if you can't watch?

_What "proffesionals" have I quoted that said that? I said that if a rider can't accurately assess what their problems were during a round, they have no business showing and wouldn't be allowed to show under that trainer again until they could. And how do I know my students are doing what I've taught them? Well, they have me for a trainer. God help them if they don't, and come home after a show and complain about their placings. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif_
~BenRidin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow I never said I had those problems. I do the junior jumpers yes, I am able to ride all my horses on my own and when I come out of the ring I tell my trainer exactly what I felt, what I didn't like about the course and what I did. I pretty much nail it.
But not everyone is like that. Have you forgotten what it is like to be a beginner? What is the point of having short stirrup through childrens hunter then if you dont allow your less experienced students to show??

I almost feel like I'm talking to my computer, not a person on the other end because you don't seem to be listening to anything I have said, you just repeat over and over again the way YOU feel on the topic. What is the point of posting that kind of question if you don't listen to people's answers without criticizing?

Oh yea, and you are the one who quoted George Morris aren't you?

~BenRidin

dogchushu
Sep. 28, 2003, 09:13 PM
ESG, why does it bother you so much if some people prefer to have their trainers watch their rounds?

Some of us just prefer it that way. I don't see how it hurts you in any way. I'm not going to the Olympics anytime soon except as a spectator. I'm in this for the fun of it. It's more fun for me with my trainer watching. If it bothers you so much, I promise you will never have to watch one of my rounds! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (Though the comic relief of seeing me ride is always worth it!)

And for riders who do have illustrious goals, I think Lord Helpus, DMK, and others have given examples of how even the very top riders may qualified eyes on the ground during their warm up or their course.



"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

AOHunter2002
Sep. 28, 2003, 09:13 PM
ESG: if you are a h/j trainer and seem to know EVERYTHING...why are you aking us questions? I hope to GOD that you are more professional in person then you have been on these boards..or god help your clients http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Katie

~*~"When your horse greets you with a nicker, nuzzles your chest, and regards you with a large and liquid eye, the question of where you want to be and what you want to do has been answered"~*~

flshgordon
Sep. 28, 2003, 09:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
But you might want to check with your doctor about HRT. It will level you out so you do not become so emotionally involved over a total stranger.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That seems like the most logical suggestion I have seen posted by anyone so far!

I hope I never have the unfortunate pleasure of trainer shopping in this person's area and accidentally end up with them as a trainer!!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Seems unbelievable that anyone would pay her to be ridiculed constantly.

AOHunter2002
Sep. 28, 2003, 10:23 PM
Flshgordon...im in COMPLETE agreement with you http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

~*~"When your horse greets you with a nicker, nuzzles your chest, and regards you with a large and liquid eye, the question of where you want to be and what you want to do has been answered"~*~

DMK
Sep. 29, 2003, 04:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flshgordon:
I hope I never have the unfortunate pleasure of trainer shopping in this person's area and accidentally end up with them as a trainer!!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Seems unbelievable that anyone would pay her to be ridiculed constantly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fortunately there are a plethora of quality trainers in Wellington. You actually have to work hard to find the bad ones. Of course that is not to say they just can't pop up!. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

LH - If not HRT, perhaps a lovely merlot would help? I think Gallo does a Jug O'Vino, or there is alway our infamous Box O'Wine... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Call your village. Their idiot is missing...

Anne
Sep. 29, 2003, 05:12 AM
"Oh, I see. You couldn't tell that you cut the corner and your horse was drifting left? And that you didn't maintain a steady pace to the jump? You mean to tell me that you needed your trainer to tell you this? Poor you..............."

ESG this is not discussion, this is bashing. I am an adult amateur. You know, the type that pays most trainers' bills and allows them to drive that new Mercedes? You have made it very clear what your position is on this issue, so bugger off and leave those of us who feel like our trainers should at least EARN some of those show coaching fees alone. I second LH's suggestion of some HRT and raise you happy drugs... you might like Prozac.

ESG
Sep. 29, 2003, 05:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogchushu:
ESG, why does it bother you so much if some people prefer to have their trainers watch their rounds?

Some of us just prefer it that way. I don't see how it hurts you in any way. I'm not going to the Olympics anytime soon except as a spectator. I'm in this for the fun of it. It's more fun for me with my trainer watching. If it bothers you so much, I promise you will never have to watch one of my rounds! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (Though the comic relief of seeing me ride is always worth it!)

And for riders who do have illustrious goals, I think Lord Helpus, DMK, and others have given examples of how even the very top riders may qualified eyes on the ground during their warm up or their course.



"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It doesn't "bother me" that people want their trainers to watch them. That's only natural and normal. It's the ones that seem to be unable to make a move without their trainer's telling them how, and screwing up a show's schedule in the process that bother me.

As I may or may not have stated, I have my students do hunter classes at shows to help prepare them for the jumpers, to accustom them to jumping in a competition situation before an audience. The hunter classes are not a means to an end in themselves, but I realize that that isn't the case with many who've responded to my posts. It's their primary discipline, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's just that I get tired of being at a local show and having to have the ring steward get peeved because she's trying to keep the rings on time and failing miserably because some WBBNT is futzing around at another ring and her student won't make a move without her, even to the point of NOT WARMING UP ON THE FLAT without her. It's these people I'm questioning. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

BTW, LOVE your Edison quote and have used it on several occasions. Well done finding that! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[This message was edited by ESG on Sep. 29, 2003 at 08:26 AM.]

ESG
Sep. 29, 2003, 05:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BenRidin:
Wow I never said I had those problems. I do the junior jumpers yes, I am able to ride all my horses on my own and when I come out of the ring I tell my trainer exactly what I felt, what I didn't like about the course and what I did. I pretty much nail it.

Then you're obviously not the type rider I'm referring to. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Oh yea, and you are the one who quoted George Morris aren't you?

Yes, I did. I stand corrected. It was about his disgust at the fact that nearly none of the equitation finals riders could successfully negotiate that jumps-in-a-line-across-the-arena course, because they'd become too dependant on counting strides. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
~BenRidin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ESG
Sep. 29, 2003, 05:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AOHunter2002:
ESG: if you are a h/j trainer and seem to know EVERYTHING...why are you aking us questions? I hope to GOD that you are more professional in person then you have been on these boards..or god help your clients http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Katie


I never claimed to know everything. That's why I asked the question in the first place. And don't feel sorry for my clients. They love me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


~*~"When your horse greets you with a nicker, nuzzles your chest, and regards you with a large and liquid eye, the question of where you want to be and what you want to do has been answered"~*~<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ESG
Sep. 29, 2003, 05:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
Good God, do I ever feel sorry for you!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh please don't waste time pitying me. I am fine, really I am. But you might want to check with your doctor about HRT. It will level you out so you do not become so emotionally involved over a total stranger.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not "emotionally involved", just really mystified by the attitudes revealed during this discussion and trying to understand them. And just FTR, I've always been told that when a party in a discussion gets personal, it's an indication that that party feels threatened in some way. You might think about that HRT for yourself. Just a suggestion...........................http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

becca's boys
Sep. 29, 2003, 05:30 AM
ESG,

I am sorry that you are having some self-esteem issues. Clearly you are very insecure. This is so easy to spot in your attacking tone of voice and confrontational posts. I do not recall reading any post where you were told that YOU must have your ground help at the gate with you (this is fortunate for you since you might have some difficulty convincing anyone to want to be around you for that long).

Many polite individuals have answered your "question", but since you don't seem to like the answers you are given you simply continue to berate people.

I am very embarrassed for you and I am quite sure that you are NOT the big time trainer that you claim to be. I have never seen a truly successful and accomplished trainer (at any level) who acts like you. Generally it is the "wanna be"/ "know it all" types that have your sort of attitude.

Maybe you could use a good trainer who could help build up your own confidence and skill level so that you felt less inclined to criticize others in an sad attempt to pump up your own self-worth.

JMHO

elizabeth
Sep. 29, 2003, 05:35 AM
My gosh, folks. I cannot believe this has gotten quite so nasty.

Perhaps y'all should have just agreed to disagree and agreed that further discussion was going to be fruitless about a page or two ago.

I should enlist a bunch of you to go spew venom on my behalf at the folks at Dominion Power who, for some reason, cannot seem to get Richmond, VA back on the grid in a timely fashion. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

ESG
Sep. 29, 2003, 05:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by a/o jumpin:
ESG,

I am sorry that you are having some self-esteem issues. Clearly you are very insecure. This is so easy to spot in your attacking tone of voice and confrontational posts. I do not recall reading any post where you were told that YOU must have your ground help at the gate with you (this is fortunate for you since you might have some difficulty convincing anyone to want to be around you for that long).

Many polite individuals have answered your "question", but since you don't seem to like the answers you are given you simply continue to berate people.

I am very embarrassed for you and I am quite sure that you are NOT the big time trainer that you claim to be. I have never seen a truly successful and accomplished trainer (at any level) who acts like you. Generally it is the "wanna be"/ "know it all" types that have your sort of attitude.

Maybe you could use a good trainer who could help build up your own confidence and skill level so that you felt less inclined to criticize others in an sad attempt to pump up your own self-worth.

JMHO<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I pointed out to LH, it's those who feel uncomfortable in a discussion who attack in a personal fashion. Please don't feel sorry for me or my clients. I am in no doubt about my worth as a trainer or a human being. So before you perceive others as being insecure, best check the mirror and find out where that issue might actually lie. Just a suggestion............................http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ESG
Sep. 29, 2003, 05:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elizabeth:
My gosh, folks. I cannot believe this has gotten quite so nasty.

Perhaps y'all should have just agreed to disagree and agreed that further discussion was going to be fruitless about a page or two ago.

_I should enlist a bunch of you to go spew venom on my behalf at the folks at Dominion Power who, for some reason, cannot seem to get Richmond, VA back on the grid in a timely fashion. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Elizabeth, you're right. I apologize to all those I inadvertantly offended in my quest for understanding. We'll agree to disagree.

And I promise I won't be the one responsible for holding the gate at any show. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Madeline
Sep. 29, 2003, 06:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogchushu:
ESG, why does it bother you so much if some people prefer to have their trainers watch their rounds?

Some of us just prefer it that way. I don't see how it hurts you in any way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's where we get back to the original point of this thread. Trainers and their clients who hold up rings interminably and repeatedly. It doesn't hurt me but it pisses me off!

I don't really care if you need to ride double with your trainer whispering hints directly into your ear, but please make sure that both of you are at the gate, ready to go in, as soon as the horse in front of you jumps its last fence.

Not too much to ask, really.

madeline

elizabeth
Sep. 29, 2003, 06:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madeline:
I don't really care if you need to ride double with your trainer whispering hints directly into your ear, but please make sure that both of you are at the gate, ready to go in, as soon as the horse in front of you jumps its last fence. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That made me laugh right out loud!!

That is the funniest thing I have read on this BB in about a year. Kudos. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ESG
Sep. 29, 2003, 06:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madeline:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogchushu:
ESG, why does it bother you so much if some people prefer to have their trainers watch their rounds?

Some of us just prefer it that way. I don't see how it hurts you in any way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's where we get back to the original point of this thread. Trainers and their clients who hold up rings interminably and repeatedly. It doesn't hurt me but it pisses me off!

I don't really care if you need to ride double with your trainer whispering hints directly into your ear, but please make sure that both of you are at the gate, ready to go in, as soon as the horse in front of you jumps its last fence.

Not too much to ask, really.

madeline<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFLMAO!!!! Thank you madeline, for both a very accurate summation and a GREAT laugh!

ClemsonGraduateRider
Sep. 29, 2003, 07:48 AM
ESG - Would you "fire" a client if they came out of the ring and couldn't tell you what happened every stride of their course? What about your clients at their first show? Do you expect THEM to be able to tell you everything that was not perfect in their first course. Oh I forgot, that client wouldn't get to go to a show unless they were nearing professional-like knowledge of their own horse and riding ability.

I would say that out of the 20 adults in an A/O division 19 WANT their trainers to be at the ring so that they can receive feedback and the remaining 1 "can't breathe without their trainer telling them to." I also want to know how you distiguish between those people being an outside observer. How can you tell the difference between the person who won't go in the ring because a) they pay their trainer to be there and want feedback so they can improve or b) because they can't breathe without their trainer? I'm just curious because for the 17 years I've been showing I often can't tell the difference. When I pay a trainer (and FYI I dont NEED a trainer to be at my side at all times) I expect them to be there and earn their fees. I also ride sale horses for people, why the hell would I go in the ring on a horse they want me to show to the best of my ability without them watching? They should see their sale horse go, especially if they are entrusting me to show it!

IMO you have an extremely unrealistic idea about who should be allowed to show Hunters and what hunter trainers are there for. If you are so wonderful I would expect your clients not to need you at all, since they all know exactly what they do wrong everytime they step in the ring. What exactly DO they pay you for?

- - - - - -
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history." ~ George Bernard Shaw

sweetnlo
Sep. 29, 2003, 07:51 AM
ENUFF

dogchushu
Sep. 29, 2003, 07:55 AM
I don't like to sit around staring at a lonely, empty ring either. But this thread has sort of devolved from "why do we hold up the ring waiting for trainers" to "why do hunters need their trainers at a show."

Most trainers have been to many, many shows and have the system down quite well. They're able to warm up their students and watch their rounds without holding up the ring. On the rare occassions when they do, it's something unexpected and unavoidable.

Are there a few trainers out there who totally abuse the system and hold up the ring when better planning could have avoided it? Yes. As I said earlier, even with my limited amount of showing you get to know who they are. And you learn never to put your number in after one of their students.

But rather than think "why can't their students go ride without the trainer," I tend to think "wow, how disrespectful of that trainer."

There are also many reasons why a ring may be delayed other than students waiting for trainers. Particularly at the local level, I've seen classes where everyone bunches up at the in gate but no one wants to go first (I think someone else also mentioned this phenomenon on another thread). Or riders who wait until they're just about to enter before learning the course . Sometimes the rider is in multiple rings or on multiple horses and needs time to switch. At schooling shows where you have different riders on one horse, you often have to wait for tack changes.

My all-time favorite was a girl I saw who went in the first group over fences then waited until after everyone else had gone into the ring for the hack before dismounting to remove her martingale and apply hoof oil. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif But that's one inconsiderate person who, in my opinion, should have been shut out of the class.



"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

DMK
Sep. 29, 2003, 08:16 AM
Dear Pocket Trainer:

I am lost and confused... Just this morning I went to the barn to bring the horses in, and I realized I forgot to put my trainer in my pocket before I left the house! I know... you are horrified, aren't you? Anyway, the poor dears are STILL outside, because I can't seem to figure out how to put the halters on without my handy dandy trainer (so clever of you to have patented the Pocket Trainer so we never have to go without!). But Pocket Trainer? How do we handle these moments of forgetfulness when we forget Pocket Trainer? Do I feel bad for my hungry horses, or should I just start the merlot and brie earlier today?

Sincerely,

Halted in Halterland http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

****************************

Dear Halted http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif !

Fear not! Pocket Trainer is here to make sure you never forget us again! For a mere $149.95 you can buy a handy dandy strap (raised, fancy stitched english leather, with your name on a brass plate, of course) so you can ALWAYS keep pocket trainer with you! Meanwhile, don't worry your little head off about the horses. This means Pocket Trainer won't have to send the groom out to lunge them tonight before you get led around the ring for your evening jaunt. Pocket Trainer also recommmends a nice Wild Horse merlot for this particular occassion.

Sincerely,

Pocket Trainer

Call your village. Their idiot is missing...

BenRidin
Sep. 29, 2003, 08:20 AM
LMAO http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

~BenRidin

dogchushu
Sep. 29, 2003, 08:22 AM
My Pocket Trainer came permanently attached to my checkbook!



"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

DMK
Sep. 29, 2003, 08:32 AM
Dear Pocket Trainer:

Just the other day I went to pay you, but I realized I left my checkbook in my Cadillac Escalade Super Supremo SUV, and of course it is parked 100 feet from our tent!! Naturally I couldn't be expected to walk all that way. What wine do you recommend for this occassion and what do I do, Pocket Trainer????

Checkless in Tent City

****************

Dear Checkless!

Pocket Trainer hopes you understand how very important it is to PAY Pocket Trainer promptly! But Pocket Trainer understands that mistakes do happen, so Pocket Trainer will be happy to provide you with Velcromatic for your checkbook. It costs a mere $39.95, but comes monogrammed and in Pocket Trainer's custom colors (mandatory). Meanwhile, Pocket Trainer will be happy to drive you to your vehicle in Pocket Trainer's golf cart that you graciously bought Pocket Trainer. Pocket Trainer realizes you have a class in 5 minutes, but we must keep our priorities straight, mustn't we? And on that note, Pocket Trainer finds that a lovely Reserve Cakebread Cabernet is the appropriate gift to give Pocket Trainer for this small misunderstanding. You may want to get one for yourself as well.

Sincerely,

Pocket Trainer

Call your village. Their idiot is missing...

Greenbrier
Sep. 29, 2003, 08:47 AM
The reason your trainer has to be at every ring is so you can pay his/her price for what we call the in-gate mating call of clapping with whoop whoop whoop whoop, whether the round is good or bad. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

khobstetter
Sep. 29, 2003, 08:57 AM
Dear Pocket Trainer (attention assistants)..

I find the Pocket Trainer indispensible when it comes to my horses and riding. I am thrilled you have so many accessories to help me keep myself on track.

When I do forget it I feel like I am without my best friend.

Sincerely,
Capable Usually

******

Dear Capable Usually,

We are pleased you enjoy our product. HOWEVER it is of grave concern to us that you occasionally forget to take it with you. You should consider the newest addition to our catalog...

The Forget Alert Whistle at a meer $29.95. It is attatched conveniently to your Pocket Trainer and if you get too far away, or in the company of some "alternative" Trainer "product", it will emit a high shrill whistle to remind you that you are not functioning properly with your OWN Pocket Trainer.

Another suggestion in case you experience shacky nerves at loud shrill noises is the very newest addition....Personal Pocket Be Still at $39.95. We will carefully program your Pocket Trainer to your own personal hearing octave so that it's warning whistle will only be heard by YOU!!!

Just a small warning however...with the Personal Pocket Be Still option there is a "training" period for you to become accustomed to the product. Following this training period you will no longer jerk to attention each time it signals you that YOU have forgotten your OWN Pocket Trainer OR are attempting to function with an alternative.

If we can be of furthur assistance. please let us know... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sincerely,
Pocket Trainer Assistant #1

http://www.foxpointefarm.com
http://www.go-sho.org

o2binca
Sep. 29, 2003, 08:59 AM
Dear Pocket Trainer,
Oh please tell me what to do!!! All the other riders have pocket trainers so I realized I MUST have one too. But I need to ask my trainer first and unfortunately, for the last two hours she has been at the other ring making sure the medal riders feel confident about the way the grooms bridled their horses. What should I do? Should I discuss it with her before or after I do my rounds? Maybe while I'm doing the hack class? I feel so paralyzed. I was thinking a Sterling chardonnay would be appropriate, but will go with whatever you choose. Please help me.

Sincerely,

Frozen in amateurland

Pocket Trainer
Sep. 29, 2003, 10:09 AM
Dear Frozen!

Have no fear, Pocket Trainer is here! Of course you can have your own Pocket Trainer. Just send Pocket Trainer $5999.95 along with 3 open ended platimum credit cards, and I will be happy to send you your very own Pocket Trainer. From there we can discuss our lovely line of accessories that will make your Pocket Trainer the best experience ever. Once you have your Pocket Trainer, you can rest assured that you will never suffer a moment without reinforcement. But no need to actually discuss it with your former trainer! Since she obviously expects you to be able to "do things by yourself" she will undoubtedly figure out that you managed to get a pocket trainer all by yourself as well! Pocket Trainer thinks a 1993 Chateau St Jean Reserve Chardonnay works best for these celebrations, but is willing to settle for Sterling if that is what is handiest. pocket Trainer always believes in the immediacy of a good wine over quality if that is the only choice.

Yours in a Pocket,

Pocket Trainer!

Lord Helpus
Sep. 29, 2003, 10:45 AM
Dear Pocket Trainer,

Before leaving for the jumper ring, my virtual trainer told me the strides of the lines. But the lady who just came out did the first line in one MORE stride, and the second line in one LESS stride than the numbers I was told.

Since her trainer never allows her students to go to shows until they have pinned in a mini-prix (although how they can pin in a mini-Prix without attending a horse show still konfuzes me), I guess that the 6 and 4 instead of 5 and 5 MUST be right.

Please, please dear Pocket Trainer, can you turn on your laser beam (optional accessory for which I paid $999) and measure the distances in these lines?

THANK YOU Pocket Trainer. It is a Godsend to have you with me at all times, since I cannot read course diagrams (reading was taught during the first winter I was at WEF, and I have never learned how to do it).

Konfuzed in Kentucky http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

PS: The last rider and her trainer are rolling on the ground in a fit of what looks suspiciously like St Vitus' Dance. Do you think they been following your stricture of the immediacy of wine over quality?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When life gives you crap, make crapenade.

Merry
Sep. 29, 2003, 11:17 AM
Dear Freakin' Pocket Trainer:

I got you confused with both my cell phone and my walkie talkie. I thought I was discussing my round with you (while on course) and instead I ended up ordering a pizza and paging the grooms to send a golf cart to the backgate. I am so addled! Perhaps I need more pockets?

And by the way, is there any way I can get you to speak to me in a slightly foreign accent? I want my pocket trainer to be more special than anyone else's pocket trainer. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

The champagne is on its way. Although I bought it at Costco I plan on serving it in real crystal, so no one will know the difference.

- California Crazeee http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Amateur Adult Tip #9: "Got black gunky stuff under your recently manicured fingernails? Sniff haughtily and tell your snobby friends you're into the 'Goth look' for Halloween."

BenRidin
Sep. 29, 2003, 11:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Merry:


And by the way, is there any way I can get you to speak to me in a slightly foreign accent? I want my pocket trainer to be more special than anyone else's pocket trainer. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMG LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

~BenRidin

Madison
Sep. 29, 2003, 11:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Merry:And by the way, is there any way I can get you to speak to me in a slightly foreign accent? I want my pocket trainer to be more special than anyone else's pocket trainer. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe that comes at an additional charge of course . . . but since it might impress people you should probably spend whatever it costs . . . http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://community.webshots.com/user/madisonav

Pocket Trainer
Sep. 29, 2003, 11:28 AM
Dear Konfuzed!

I am afraid you will first have to send Pocket Trainer another $1999.95 in order to get your Pocket Trainer upgraded to Hunter AND Jumper mode (our records note you purchased the Hunter Only version). How silly of you to think you could go into another discipline without the appropriate upgrades! But it was certainly clever of you to get the optional laser beam (Distances R Us v.3) - that will save a lot of time in the upgrade process and make your Showing Experience fun.

But Pocket Trainer is worried about this concern you have for another rider's striding. First, Pocket Trainer thinks you should know that just because someone said they are capable of doing a particular discipline, well that doesn't mean that they live up to the Pocket Trainer standards. Pocket Trainer understands that you have a certain way of riding and your horse has a certain way of going. Pocket Trainer prides itself on making sure your Pocket Experience is customized to meet your needs! But Pocket Trainer begs you to be tolerant of these poor people who have missed the Pocket Experience. We can only hope they see the light (light available for $99.95).

And Pocket Trainer regrets her brash overstatement about the immediacy of any wine. Pocket Trainer thought it was understood that wine in jugs, boxes or with screw caps does produce these undesirable results. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Yours in a Pocket,

Pocket Trainer

Pocket Trainer is recommended by 9 out of 10 judges, and as soon as one of Pocket Trainer's clients buys a horse from that 10th judge, we will have a 100% recommendation rate!

[This message was edited by Pocket Trainer on Sep. 29, 2003 at 02:38 PM.]

sweetnlo
Sep. 29, 2003, 11:37 AM
Pocket trainer,
Thank Heavens for you and velcromatic!!!!!!!!!!! My life is finally "bearable" as long as the bartender is talented, but I do have one other problem: after typing, riding, whoopz, sitting pretty and smiling, I am too tired to write and fear I might smudge, UHHHH, chip, EEEEEK or GULP, GULP, brrrreeeaaak a nail while filling out your check. I am sure you can help me solve this problem.

Pocket Trainer
Sep. 29, 2003, 11:37 AM
Dear California Crazeee!

Of course you can have your own very special Foreign Pocket Trainer! Naturally because this is something unique and special, you will be required to pay a little something unique and special as well. And Pocket Trainer really doesn't have to remind you that if you have to ask, you can't afford it, right?

But Pocket Trainer would like you to know that while German, British, Irish (Lad option only) and French Pocket Trainers are still all the rage and quite dear, we do have a special on former Brazilian Pocket Trainers. That one even speaks English as a native tongue and can come with the optional Gossip Function (additional costs may apply).

As for getting Pocket Trainer confused with your cell phone,Pocket Trainer is confused. With Pocket Trainer to take care of your every wish and need, why do you need a cell phone? You wouldn't be trying to buy a horse without involving Pocket Trainer in, would you?

Yours in a Pocket,

Pocket Trainer

Pocket Trainer
Sep. 29, 2003, 11:46 AM
Dear Checked Out!

Pocket Trainer begs you to retain an accountant to handle these pesky financial details. Or if you feel that is too troublesome (after all, you will still have to pay the accountant!), Pocket Trainer offers you the opportunity to purchase Pocket Trainer's new "PT Automatic Line of Credit" ($149.95 installation fee, followed by a $19.95 monthly membership fee). Avoid having to write any pesky checks for Pocket Trainer services, Judge Payouts, Show Fees, buying a horse, or any horse related expense! Just set up an open ended credit line in Pocket Trainer's name, and Pocket Trainer will take care of all these pesky expenses for you!

Won't life be grand? To celebrate, Pocket Trainer recommends a nice heart Gallo Red Wine, because Pocket Trainer wouldn't want you to put any sort of drain on that credit line...

Yours in a Pocket,

Pocket Trainer

sweetnlo
Sep. 29, 2003, 11:58 AM
POCKET TRAINER you are a genius. Those accountants are sooooo boring (don't ask how I formed that opinion, WHEW thanks for the talking picture message letting me know it came from you). Could you possibly make all the necessary account arrangements?? Of course I don't doubt you are capable, but I hate to ask you to perform such a tedious, tawdry task, when others must desperately need your help getting to the barn, not to mention picking out one of thier horses, and choosing refreshments. OH to not have to fret over those exchange rates when purchasing a new mount(oh I think I shall have to purchase/activate the herd hoarder program soon)

Your financial advice was sheer brilliance, but your beverage recommendation was simply omnipotent, cellestial, could you open the bottle, my polish has not set yet.

May you remain lint free for eternity!!!!!
Red nail, formerly a green thumb.

Pocket Trainer
Sep. 29, 2003, 12:19 PM
Dear Checked Out!

Pocket Trainer is always happy to help with the financial details, I mean isn't that why you have Pocket Trainer? But Pocket Trainer is most unhappy to say that Pocket Trainer is simply too busy to attend to pouring your alcoholic beverage at just this moment. Pocket Trainer is busy making sure that your hunter, Exceedingly Drugged, knows tomorrow's courses! So I am happy to recommend Pocket Junior ($495 installation fee, $99 monthly fee plus tips!) to help you out with all those extra details that make your Pocket Trainer Experience the best! And for a limited time, you can upgrade Pocket Junior to do manicures as well! ($59.95)

Yours in a Pocket,

Pocket Trainer

LEP Enterprises, LLC
Sep. 29, 2003, 12:26 PM
OMG ROFLMAO!!!!!!

***

Pocket Trainer,

My Pre-AA horse's lead change button has recently gotten stuck. Do you think you could help me (i.e. fix this?)? I've been pushing the @#$#@$#@ button while on course, but she is still countercantering to the diagonal lines. Please help. I am about to send her to the glue factory.

Also, for my next "project" I would like something south american, rather than european. Its the new sexy rage, you know.

Yours truly,

Hunter_Princess_in_training_02

________________________
*London*Hannah*Kirsche*
*Gryphon Bay & foal on the WAY!!!*

sweetnlo
Sep. 29, 2003, 12:36 PM
Oh pocket trainer, such a bitter sweet response, I was in such tears that you could not pour immediately I almost could not read about the manicure upgrade, which cheered my like a Cosmopolitan. I understand your talents are in such great demand that you must prioritize, I keep the Bootee Butler for such emergencies, he will tend to my hydration sensation. Please don't worry, concentrate on the preparations for tomorrow, what a relief not to have to write the judge a check tonight, I can get plenty of beauty rest. I'm sure I must own Exceedingly Drugged since you say I do, but I must admit the name does not sound familiar to me, please put a rush on the herd hoarder after the show tomorrow.

Pocket Trainer
Sep. 29, 2003, 12:42 PM
Dear HPIT!

I am shocked that you would suggest sending your horse to the glue factory! Pocket Trainer never condones this sort of thing. Why everyone who has read their Pocket Trainer Manual 2000, knows that the appropriate protocol is to DONATE your mount to a Riding Academy, with a stated value of approximately two times the purchase price, so as to obtain maximum tax deduction. Pocket Trainer expects that you will commit 100% of the Actual Purchase Price of the prior mount along with 100% of the realized deduction for charitable contribution to the purchase of the new mount, naturally.

If you need help arranging this donation and noting your charitable contribution correctly, we are happy to announce PocketTurbo Horse Donation software ($79.95). Please note, Pocket Trainer, nor its wholly owned subsidiary, PocketTurbo are NOT responsible for any investigations, fines, convictions, jail terms or death sentences carried out as a result of using any of our products.

And just like that, you will be able to send Pocket Trainer off to the country of your choice to buy that brand spankin' new mount with fully functional buttons!

Yours in a Pocket,

Pocket Trainer

sweetnlo
Sep. 29, 2003, 12:45 PM
pocket trainer, please simple financial terms, you sound soooo much the Certified Public Accountant I used to be when I used to have to work, before I married, . . . ummm . . /. .What's his name??? Please another talking picture message.

Midge
Sep. 29, 2003, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
Last but not least, insofar as a hunter round is concerned, it is about the _n_th degree of perfection. Not the _n_th minus 2 degrees, but the _nth_ degree. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif This means that warm up isn't about warming your horse up so he is physically ready to jump a course at X height, but that he has been prepped to jump as well as he can jump any jump. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DMK, the horse is dead. It is dead, dead, dead. It is cut up into steaks, chops and a bit of sausage, wrapped in white paper and on the plane to Belgium dead. Gone. Left the building and never coming back even if they do take the red velvet wallpaper out of Graceland dead. Like the Dead Sea Scrolls. Like the Dead Sea, like the Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia. Gone. Kaput.

Put the stick down and back away from the dead horse, Please!

dogchushu
Sep. 29, 2003, 02:24 PM
Dear Pocket Trainer,

I must confess, rather than your Groom 2.0, I have been using a competitors product: Working Student 1.0. It has not been a satisfactory experience. I should have known better than to make a decision based on cost and not on the reccommendation of my Pocket Trainer. I resolve never to do so again.

Today I showed up to ride and my horse still had some staw in her tail--I had to remove it myself. Even worse, my horse had been lunged a mere 2 1/2 hours. Her feet were only barely worn down to the nub stage! She even had a breath of life left in her. I ask you, should I be expected to ride in such conditions?

I have seen the error of my ways and will evermore purchase your products. I have seen the error of making my own decsions.

How can I made amends to you? I fear our relationship is irrevocably damaged. I stand here with a bottle of Crystal and an open checkbook begging your forgiveness. Please, take me back Pocket Trainer!

Signed,

Repentent and Ready to Pay!



"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

DMK
Sep. 29, 2003, 03:09 PM
DMK just realizes she has been beating a dead horse...

Slowly and carefully she backs away from the offending carcass. After all, DMK prides herself on being a Hunter Princess, and knows that the BEST hunter is a *near* dead animal, not an actual dead one. Once again, DMK has Midge to thank for saving her from an embarrassing social gaffe!

Call your village. Their idiot is missing...

Pocket Trainer
Sep. 29, 2003, 03:28 PM
Dear Financially Frazzled!

Just give Pocket Trainer your bank account and routing numbers and don't worry your pretty little head about that confusing number stuff. Help yourself to another glass of chardonnay!

Yours in a Pocket,

Pocket Trainer

*******************

Dear Repentent and Ready to Pay!

I am sorry to see that you learned the price of straying in such a harsh way. Perhaps you will rethink last year's whole "self care" strategy you came up with before resorting to an inferior knock off, eh? In the meantime, feel free to send Pocket Trainer a case of '94 Ponzi Reserve Pinot Noir. That is bound to put Pocket Trainer in a more mellow mood.

Yours in a Pocket,

Pocket Trainer

AOHunter2002
Sep. 29, 2003, 04:08 PM
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif OMG!!! i am seriously rolling around laughing here...thank you pocket trainer and questioners for making my day!!!
Katie

~*~"When your horse greets you with a nicker, nuzzles your chest, and regards you with a large and liquid eye, the question of where you want to be and what you want to do has been answered"~*~

Beezer
Sep. 29, 2003, 06:23 PM
Dear Pocket Trainer:

Would it be possible to downsize one of your standard units to fit in my horse's ear bunny? The problem is, he simply does not listen to me, but my (full-size) trainer says she doesn't have that problem. So, I was thinking, could I get a model that records my trainer's voice to put in his ear bunny to fool him into thinking that my trainer is riding him so that he will listen to me?

Signed, I'm Talking But He Won't Listen!

***** I muck, therefore I am. *****

Hopeful Hunter
Sep. 29, 2003, 07:56 PM
Dear Pocket Trainer:

I'm so very happy to see your lovely wine recommendations -- I always bring a small split of either Piper or Pop champagne to my shows. I usually drink it when done, although my full size trainer does sometimes mutter it might do more good to drink before.

However, I haven't yet seen anything on the Shirt 'Shrink add on module. When will it be out? Going around a whole course without my analyst to help me face my fear and build my esteem is just so terribly hard. I just know with the Shirt 'Shrink to provide supportive, non-confrontational feedback on my every emotion I'd pin ever so much higher...

Will this module be available soon? My full-size friends have all promised to buy it for me -- isn't that sweet of them?!

good booie
Sep. 30, 2003, 06:15 AM
Dear Pocket Trainer,

I am so happy to hear that your business is booming!!! Good for you. I however do not have a lot of money but do keep good wine around all the time and basically drink it non stop. Usually I am too wasted to get around a course and to make my chances better in the show ring I wondered if you had the POCKET TRAINER SCRAMBLER??? I would like to sit high atop the bleachers and just blast everyone's rounds. WHAT FUN!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Can you help?

signed,
Really need and edge......and a drink

Love my Quarter Horse!

GA Clique!!!

[This message was edited by good booie on Sep. 30, 2003 at 09:27 AM.]

sweetnlo
Sep. 30, 2003, 06:20 AM
Pocket trainer,

Although less financially frazzled thanks to your sound advice, I still do not know the name, nor would I recognize the face of the man who's money I am spending. Has the Hip Hubby been re-designed to at least coordinate with my TSs?? OH yes, I should go put them on now, does it matter which leg I put in first? You taught me well so I know only one at a time and only one leg in each side. Please give Druggie a hug for me, I could not possibly touch her/him??? myself. I'm still trying to recollect that purchase, Did you manage to negotiate a bargain on DMK's old horse and revive it????? I'll be at the grounds soon. I'm sure you have reserved a suitably convenient parking space for whatever vehicle I decide to be chauffered in today. What do you think I should bring for wine today??

Pocket Trainer
Sep. 30, 2003, 12:07 PM
Dear Signed, I'm Talking But He Won't Listen!

Of course our newest Pocket Trainer product addresses this very problem. For an additional $1995 you can get a surgical insert (surgical procedure extra) in your horse's ear that will allow your horse to have the full Pocket Trainer Experience while on course, or even in a lesson! We must take this opportunty to remind you that while you may feel the need to retain your full bodied former trainer, this exciting new option is only available to those who enjoy (purchase) the full Pocket Trainer Experience. It is simply not an add on to your current regime. And I would like to remind all our regular Pocket Trainer customers that if you choose to upgrade to a new trainer, you will be required to upgrade this equipment as well. But peace of mind is worth it, don't you think? No more worrying about waiting down a line or working to move up to that spot - a simple cluck cluck or eeeeasy from your Pocket Trainer, and your horse is well on his way to Indoors!

Naturally, Pocket Trainer recommmends a Villa Mt. Eden Signature Series (1993) Cabernet for Indoors...

Yours in a Pocket!

Pocket Trainer

Pocket Trainer
Sep. 30, 2003, 12:15 PM
Dear Unable to Cope!

Pocket Trainer wishes we could be everything to everyone, but Pocket Trainer has come to accept that there are too many potential neuroses plaguing a rider while on course. We do have a earset option available ($995) to assist your round in any required Ego Stroking ("you are the best rider out here, that distance was simply fabulous! I know I told you the class was 3', but really that upcoming single oxer is barely 18"!) But after much research we have found that sometimes anxieties seem to creep in from other places, like your pesky boss telling you that you can't take off for all of February and March for WEF.

While Pocket Trainer regrets that these things happen to you, and we certainly could tell you it it isn't a problem, but Pocket Trainer has a firm policy to only lie to you about the quality of your riding, the cost of the horse you just bought and where that last $10K went to. But Pocket Trainer recommends a few more glasses of a Petite Syrah just before your class to take care of any other traumatic issues in your life. Pocket Trainer will take care of your rounds!

Yours in a Pocket!

Pocket Trainer

* IVY LEAGUE *
Sep. 30, 2003, 12:23 PM
My coaches do not let us go to the ring to do an O/F class without them, if there is a conflict then the ring must wait for us even if we are ready to go. I can understand but it does make for a long day and angry in gate people. I for one happen to like coaches to be at the ring side for only my O/F rounds, the U/S class if they are not there it is not a big deal, I will just let them know how it went. Nine times out of ten they make it over to see at least some of the class.

Pocket Trainer
Sep. 30, 2003, 12:27 PM
Dear Really need and edge......and a drink!!

Don't we all! Pocket Trainer LOVES your attitude, and knows you will go far in this world! But Pocket Trainer would be a poor business person if we sabotaged our own business, wouldn't we? Still, Pocket Trainer has noticed some poor imitations showing up in the marketplace. And while Pocket Trainer still has its patented super encryption technology which guarantees you an Uninterrupted Pocket Trainer Experience, of course we were able to crack our competitors transmission signal!

We are so proud to introduce Pocket Trainer Premium!® A new subscription service ($1995 installation fee, $295/monthly subscription) that will allow you to block transmission of a competitor's non Pocket Trainer Device! Simply point the device at the offending rider, and Pocket Trainer Premium!® will override any signals/training advice, leaving that person well behind you in the jog!

But even better, for an additional $49.95/month you can have Pocket Trainer Premium Plus!® which will actually send CONFLICTING signals to your competitors! Imagine the fun you will have "telling" Ms. Thinks She's Better Than You that the outside line is a 5 when it's really a 6!

Drink up! The jogs are yours with this exciting new technology!

Yours in a Pocket!

Pocket Trainer

good booie
Sep. 30, 2003, 12:39 PM
Oh Pocket!!! My cup runneth over, really.

four, no five, six. Gun it. Whoa. Crash.

Be still my jogging heart.

xoxo
checks in the mail http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Love my Quarter Horse!

GA Clique!!!

Pocket Trainer
Sep. 30, 2003, 12:39 PM
Dear Hubby Who?

Pocket Trainer is still pretty sure your hubby is What's-His-Face, who we last saw 3 years ago before your long gone and not much missed A/O horse Couldn't Jump an Oxer smeared horse snot all over his Armani suit. Say what you will about that horse's scope, he had excellent timing in all other matters. Chances are What's-His-Face does indeed coordinate with your TS' but Pocket Trainer wonders why you are concerned about him, unless there has been a problem locating the checkbook????

Meanwhile, Exceedingly Drugged, or ED as he is known here at the barn, would love to have a pat from you. Perhaps you could arrange to pet him at 1:59, shortly after you mount him and before your 2PM Pocket Trainer Lesson? Rest assured Pocket Trainer would NEVER buy domestic unless that horse was already qualified for Indoors. ED was known as Pferderflump before we imported him last year.

Yours in a Pocket!

Pocket Trainer

sweetnlo
Sep. 30, 2003, 12:50 PM
I just wanted to ensure that the funds kept flowing in smoothly now that you are handling thier disbursement for me, once again thank you for performing this grueling task so graciously. Perhaps Whatz hiz face has ridden off on DMKs old horse. I would love to pat ED for a moment before the lesson. What kind of wine is best for mid afternoon??? I'm sure you would know best as to what will not interfere with his "medications"

LEP Enterprises, LLC
Sep. 30, 2003, 03:20 PM
omg omg keep them coming!!!!

________________________
*London*Hannah*Kirsche*
*Gryphon Bay & foal on the WAY!!!*

sweetnlo
Oct. 1, 2003, 06:19 AM
EEEEK my bootiee butler failed this morning!! What is the best "warming" beverage on a cold morning like this?

Pokey
Oct. 1, 2003, 09:50 AM
Dear Pocket Trainer,

I have such the dilema. Partly, because I don't know how to spell dilema. But I digress...

I am a wannabe Pocket Trainer. But I belive we can peacefully coexist, because I can tell, based on your exquisit taste in wines, you are not from around here, and I, therefore, will not be tramping on your ground.

And as my first action of a Pocket Trainer in training, I will allow you to be my mentor.

Now, to the dilema: I have a lovely, dear, amateur rider. Who, instead of showing up for her lesson last night, was posting here, on this very board, on this very topic, at precisely the time she should have been riding with me!

Ooooooh now wait just a minute...has she purchased a Pocket Trainer Product from you!? And I am quite certain aforementioned amateur must have a propensity for drink...so that must confirm my suspicion. Amateur Rider has been seduced by your wiley ways.

You are fiendish.

And I want to be just like you. I have so much to learn.

Although - out in the west here, that means, I must drink whiskey. Do you recommend Irish or something homegrown?

Aspiring to be Pocket Trainer,

Pokey

Janet
Oct. 1, 2003, 10:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I have such the dilema. Partly, because I don't know how to spell dilema. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Dilemna

Edit:
As you will see if you read down further, I was WRONG. Sorry about that.

But the correct spelling reminds me-
What is yellow and equivalent to the Axiom of Choice?

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

[This message was edited by Janet on Oct. 03, 2003 at 10:32 AM.]

Pokey
Oct. 1, 2003, 10:14 AM
Thank you Janet.

wanderlust
Oct. 1, 2003, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I have such the dilema. Partly, because I don't know how to spell dilema. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Dilemna

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it is "dilemma." There is no such word as "dilemna." Thank you dicionary.com. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Portia
Oct. 1, 2003, 10:28 AM
Don't forget the Pocket Trainer Pocket Dictionary and Spellchecker, available for only $49.95.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Put simply, the necessary ammunition wasn't there - and no balls means no awards."
Robert Hamilton, president of the Clydesdale Horse Society of Scotland, quoted in Ananova, Sept. 29, 2003

Pocket Trainer
Oct. 1, 2003, 11:24 AM
Dear Aspiring to be Pocket Trainer!

Pocket Trainer appreciates your dilemma, and recommends that if you are unsure of spelling and have not yet acquired your Pocket Trainer Dictionary (Thesaurus upgrade available for $9.95), Pocket Trainer always recommends another word. Although Pocket Trainer recognizes that it can be quite the catch-22, predicament, quandary, fix, jam, pickle, impasse or double-bind to think of another word without the thesaurus... On second thought your only option is to purchase the item.

As to your desire to embrace all that is Pocket Trainer, well let's just say that nobody understands that better than Pocket Trainer! But there is only ONE Pocket Trainer! However, there can be Pocket Trainer Franchises for certain geographic areas (Pocket Trainer Franchise starting at $25K). And I think it's safe to say that an area that does not embrace the glitterati and wine could very well be that area.

But Pocket Trainer must insist that if one is not drinking wine, one must STILL uphold the Pocket Trainer Standards. Whiskey (or uisge beatha) is acceptable as long as it is a) from Scotland (Irish Whiskey is also acceptable) and b) very, very old. We recommend a Macallan 25 year old for starters.

Yours in a Pocket!

Pocket Trainer

See the light! (Light available - $99.95)

Pokey
Oct. 1, 2003, 11:44 AM
Dilemma. Thank you Master Tally.

And as for you, Janet...Clearly you have purchased the Pocket Trainer Premium Plus, and are using it for such trivialities as improper spelling. That is probably an extra charge.

Thank you Pocket Trainer.

sweetnlo
Oct. 1, 2003, 12:01 PM
Pocket Trainer,

I HAVE HAD A THOUGHT, although I am still 98.79% dependent on you, it think this was utter brilliance, second only to you: I must find another horse in addition to ED and the rest of the herd, Please relax, I am perfectly happy with all of them and want you to choose the new addition, I have simply thought of a lovely name for a hunter "Wither Without You"(I can get around the course, probably better without your fat a** interfering)I have no real preferences, accept it can not clash with my hair color, although I am thinking of going blonde, is this acceptable or could it clash with the GPA?????? I prefer Dewars.

2ndyrgal
Oct. 1, 2003, 12:07 PM
Two words... video tape!!! This is the biggest pet peeve I have. You can't fix it on show day. There are students who may need a bit of hand holding, first show, new horse, new division, beginner, and students that only fall apart under the show jitters but not every ride every time. So I have a horse who has been warmed up perfectly because I got there and put my name up for the jumping order and there stands my impatient horse waiting on little susie who will not step one pretty hoofie into the ring because her trainer is not there (Susie is a 35 year old accountant at a fortune 500 company, by the way and is in charge of hundreds of people and millions of dollars), yet she won't take her big time horse into the ring and jump 2'6" without her TRAINER, but God Forbid, she should just move herself a bit farther down in the order, lest she and her trainer have to wait on my pitiful little 8 fences. I'm sure since I'm not a big deal rider, and don't have a BNT, that those shows don't miss my money a bit. What they should do, is just have the ring schedules run around the trainer's schedules, ie, all of MIss Thing's students in ring one, then all her eq riders to ring 2 then all her ponies to ring three, then when she's done, the rest of us peasants can show. I think that would work nicely, wait,,,,I think that's how it was my last show...maybe that's why I don't show at the rated shows much any more, I foxhunt.....one line, no waiting.

Pocket Trainer
Oct. 1, 2003, 12:18 PM
Dear Needs Another Horse!

First and foremost, as a long time Pocket Trainer customer, Pocket Trainer feels we should address this issue:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I HAVE HAD A THOUGHT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let there be no more of this sort of thing, if you please!

But Pocket Trainer is too delighted to help you in your quest for a new mount. We will make last minute reservations for Europe (first class, naturally) the morning we plan to leave.

Pocket Trainer has entered your personal profile into the Pocket Trainer Matchmaker (the RIGHT! horse for you - only $595 per analysis), and we have determined that the perfect horse for you is a deep liver with a star strip and two perfectly matched socks ending just below the knee. Naturally, a brand is mandatory, as well as an extremely fashionable bloodline. The search shall begin immediately! (PT Search - $999, not including expenses and commi$$ion($) ).

While Pocket Trainer prefers Custom Everything, Pocket Trainer accepts that a degree of personal choice exists in the matter of helmets and thinks that a GPA will be just fine with blonde hair. Pocket Trainer does insist that you get one shade darker blue contacts and redesign your entire riding and barn wear wardrobe to not clash with blonde.

Yours in a Pocket!

Pocket Trainer

See the light! (Light available - $99.95)

sweetnlo
Oct. 1, 2003, 12:25 PM
Please forgive me pocket trainer, some riders from MA got me drinking Absolut Cape Codders while they talked about a bay's head.????? Don't all color horses have heads???? Ingoramuses!!! Too much salt. (please rush the dictionary / thesaurus) Do you at least approve of the name??? I shall follow you to where ever whenever you make the reservations in search of the appropriately 99.76485234876 % dead horse you usually recommend. 'Til the tickets arrive, I toast you

2ndyrgal
Oct. 1, 2003, 12:37 PM
I think "In the Pocket " would be a wonderful name for a show hunter. Oh fashion mavens, blondes are so lucky, any color horse and any color coat, oh moan for us poor redheads, we clash with everything. But why if you are drinking, are you not sharing?

sweetnlo
Oct. 1, 2003, 01:15 PM
PLEASE DO NOT THINK HERE IS A DRINK TO STOP ALL THAT THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beezer
Oct. 1, 2003, 03:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pocket Trainer:
Dear Needs Another Horse!

First and foremost, as a long time Pocket Trainer customer, Pocket Trainer feels we should address this issue:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I HAVE HAD A THOUGHT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let there be no more of this sort of thing, if you please!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMGiH! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Dying here!!

***** I muck, therefore I am. *****

sweetnlo
Oct. 2, 2003, 06:18 AM
Here's a big batch of mimosas to stop all that pesky thinking.

foursocks
Oct. 2, 2003, 03:10 PM
Dear Pocket Trainer:
I'm so ashamed- I dropped my Pocket Trainer in a puddle and didn't want to get my skin dirty picking it up. So, trying to save money (I guess I really didn't need that second Merc Kompressor), I went online and purchased a knock-off, called Plocket Trainer, only 29.95, with optional massaging function. Now, not only does it only speak in a heavy Russian accent (which I thought would make me very cool and different from my friends who only have British and German trainers), but instead is just confusing, and the massage function, I have found, is not appropriate for use in polite company. Please help! I look foolish when I end up going backwards around my course because I can't understand my Plocket Trainer's fence-by-fence instructions. It also advised me to buy a terrible Merlot-Sauvignon Blanc blend that tastes like Rossi Rose.

Is there a penalty I can pay with my Platinum Plus card to win you back, or am I perpetually doomed to screaming "What? What? What are you saying?" at my Plocket Trainer when I am trying to get it to "translate" the course diagram at my important horse shows? I have taken to drinking Mickey's Malt Liquor out of a highball glass and have forgotten how to tie my field boots. Please help.

Signed,
Malted in BMore

formerly sproutsie

LEP Enterprises, LLC
Oct. 2, 2003, 03:20 PM
Dear Pocket Trainer,

Now you have gotten me in trouble with my IRL trainer! Eeep! I need help!

You see, I was here, at work, wasting time on this BB -- getting excellent advice about riding, drooling over CANTER horses -- when I should have been getting my work done so I could go out and ride my monster mare in a lesson last night! In doing so, I managed to make myself have to work late! /gasp

Please suggest a bottle of wine so that I can pacify my IRL trainer, Pokey.

Yours Truly,

Abashed in the highrise office building

________________________
*London*Hannah*Kirsche*
*Gryphon Bay & foal on the WAY!!!*

Party Rose
Oct. 2, 2003, 03:32 PM
I've just read a tiny bit of this thread, so please excuse me if I seem out-of-line.

Back in the sixties, there were usually two rings and an outside course. The trainers always tried their best to be where they were needed. There were also not the massive amount of divisions that there are today, so it was easier for them to do their job. I also NEVER ONCE paid for additional training services outside of the barn. We ALWAYS went in the ring one, two, three & NEVER had a problem with holding up a gate. When there was a class, we all stood by the gate waiting to go in, gave our horses a tap to wake them up, went in, did our business & had a blast. No the trainers were not always there and no one ever cared. We didn't have the attitudes that today's riders have, or was it that we didn't know better?

I have to say that a trainer not allowing a client to go into the ring mainly comes from two areas. Liability possibly and control. Control is an issue that I am not even going to touch.

So there are my two pennies on this subject. I hope no one takes any offense to my thoughts and can respect our past history in showing.

Party Rose
Oct. 2, 2003, 03:46 PM
HUGE OOOOOPPPS

Forgot the reason why I started to post here.

I was at The Oaks a few months ago & turned to chat with a trainer that I hadn't seen for some time. I didn't realize that person in the ring was their client. We were standing 90 degrees from where the ingate was & I had no idea that the rider was this trainers client. You would think that they would have warmed the rider up instead of "chatting" at ringside. The trainer asked me to hold on a second, as it was their client in the ring.

After the round the trainer had an long conversation with me, introduced me to their friends & made no contact with the rider. Hum!!!

My point being, everyone has their program. It is our responsibility as riders, the ones spending our hard earned money and keeping the trainers in business, to be training with the person that suits OUR needs the best. We have to fit into eachothers programs to survive and be happy. It is the riders responsibility.

Pocket Trainer
Oct. 2, 2003, 05:01 PM
Dear Malted in Bmore!

Pocket Trainer accepts that accidents and errors in judgement will happen, and clearly you have been a victim of both. Since you have provided many of our Pocket Trainer Premium Plus!® clients with much amusement as they sent erroneous information to your cheap knockoff, we are willing to reinstate you for a mere 95% of your previous fee. We are only making this excellent offer as we experienced a 30% increase in sales of Pocket Trainer Premium Plus!® at any show you were known to attend.

Pocket Trainer would also recommend that you upgrade your Pocket Trainer to include Pocket Trainer Protection Plus!® ($595 one time fee plus $99.95 monthly subscription, mandatory 5 year contract or penalties apply). Pocket Trainer Protection Plus!® will protect your valuable investment from accidents or even theft!

Pocket Trainer recommends a fruity 1994 Chateau St. Michelle Indian Wells Vineyard merlot to celebrate coming back into the fold.

Yours in a Pocket!

Pocket Trainer

See the light! (Light available - $99.95)

Pocket Trainer
Oct. 2, 2003, 05:05 PM
Dear Abashed in a High Rise Building!

Pocket Trainer normally frowns on providing wine recommendations for IRL trainers as they are clearly inferior. However, Pocket Trainer recognizes the potential franchise opportunity this particular IRL trainer may represent. Therefore, Pocket Trainer urges you to try a 1995 Rosenblum Reserve zinfandel. If the franchise check does not arrive soon, Pocket Trainer recommends Ripple.

Yours in a Pocket!

Pocket Trainer

See the light! (Light available - $99.95)