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CoolMeadows
Jan. 19, 2010, 10:45 PM
In light of tonight's near death experience (mine AND my horses), I am officially off Horseguard, or any tape from now on.

I need more breaking strength. How safe is the coated electric wire? Will it slice through tendons or does the coating truly prevent those type of injuries? If you were to put a rail on top, how many lines of coated wire would you use under it? I need to replace my fences ASAP. Want to stay with something electric, but it needs to be more secure than the tape was.

pintopiaffe
Jan. 19, 2010, 10:47 PM
Honestly, anything with more breaking strength is going to injure...

The tape is SUPPOSED to break... or the insulators. Or both. That's what prevents injury. The juice keeps 'em in, but if they go through, it SHOULD give...

dmalbone
Jan. 19, 2010, 11:40 PM
Honestly, anything with more breaking strength is going to injure...

The tape is SUPPOSED to break... or the insulators. Or both. That's what prevents injury. The juice keeps 'em in, but if they go through, it SHOULD give... Yes, that's definitely the design, but I wholeheartedly believe that this tape should not be used as a perimeter fence. I would rather my horses be killed on a fence retraining them then get out and cause an accident and cause a person or people. I don't WANT a fence to break easy enough to allow that.

OP, we are personally using a 4.25" top rail with 6 strands of hotcote below. I want a fence that has some sort of actual physical barrier should the electricity not work for some reason. I have not heard of horses being injured on the hotcote, but alas... as usual horses can injure themselves on nothing at all. Sure, injuries can happen on any fence, but I've come to believe that the hotcote and the flexrails are one of the safest designs. There is some cheaper coated wire that is much thinner than the thicker Ramm/Centaur stuff and I would not use that. The thinner the fence the more of a cheese slicer effect

ETA: OMG! I just saw your post on offcourse when I went off to hunt about what happened to you! How awful. I'm so glad you guys are ok. Yes, a solid fence is definitely in order for you! I did notice another poster mention it, but with the hotcote you don't have to electrify all of them. I got all Hotcote because it was the same cost as the plain coated wire, but I might not hook up a couple of the strands to save on electricity. I AM keeping the bottom one hot though for dogs.

dmalbone
Jan. 19, 2010, 11:48 PM
The tape is SUPPOSED to break... or the insulators. Or both. That's what prevents injury.
I also wanted to point out that many people feel this way... but again... keep in mind that this is not always true in the grand scheme of things. This fencing definitely would not have prevented injury to 4 horses galloping around in the dark of night and crashing into an suv like OP's horses. There are MANY kinds of injuries and I would rather contain them to the pastures.

horsepoor
Jan. 20, 2010, 01:01 AM
I use and love Horseguard tape, but it is for cross fencing only -- my perimeter fencing is 3-rail Centaur HTP. Now that I have seen some installations using one top rail of the wider HTP at the top and then the coated wire below that (as dmalbone describes), I kind of wish I had considered that for our place as I think it would have been a good choice and quite likely a little cheaper. We did board at a place that used the Hotcote for paddock fencing -- I think he had 5 strands of it and I believe that just 2 or 3 of them were hot. I would have liked it better if the bottom strand had been hot to keep the horse-chasing-dog out! I thought it was much safer than the electric rope that lots of places use (and I hate -- I have rope burns/scars on 3 of my horses from previous places and that stuff). In the time that I was at that barn, don't recall a horse ever getting hurt on the hotcote, and whenever we had a new or young horse come in, they went in the paddocks fenced with the hotcote as they were considered the most secure (some other paddocks were in the evil electric rope stuff). I also felt the hotcote looked good too.

BasqueMom
Jan. 20, 2010, 01:17 AM
My guys have been on the non-electric coated wire by Centaur (they do have
their version of Hotcote) for about 15 years with no injuries. Came home once and found my big OTTB missing both of his front leg fly bands. Found them along the fence line with the ground stirred up on both sides of the fence--WTH? Our dealer had recommended six strands which was overkill and the horses lost some shoes on it (we took most of the bottom strands down).

Anyway, I raced up the hill to check his legs and not a mark on them, no hair rubbed off. The particular set of fly bands he was wearing had the snaps from
H... on them requiring needlenose pliers to get them on and off. If course, the big guy wouldn't fess up to what had happened.

We had a sixty foot pine tree fall on the fence and nothing broke--sagged but after the tree was cut off, each strand came back into place and just required
a little tightening.

katarine
Jan. 20, 2010, 10:46 AM
I have four strands of coated high tensile. It's not the hotcote, but it's the same diameter.

At one point we had a hot tape fence to keep the horses out of the barnyard. We decided to replace it with coated high tensile. In doing so, the fence was down for a few days and the horses could once again come into the barnyard and make merry. My TWH didn't realize we'd replaced the fence with the black, coated, high tensile. We were finishing it up when he galloped full blast into it, from barnyard back to pasture... just not realizing those fence posts now had fence on them again. It was frightening as hell to watch, as he was literally blasting past us, full gallop, not 10 feet away from us when he hit it...when BOING it stretched and held him and he boinged backwards. He popped some fence staples(the strands were on the other side of the posts) but he was totally unmarked. Bruised, sure- but he was fine.

I love the stuff. If I could do it over I'd have done the hot cote, as I do have to back up the coated HT with electric, or they'll paw it and lean on it. Turkeys. You could get by with four strands, making the top and middle hot cote, then the other two, just plain coated high tensile. I LOVE my fence.

dmalbone
Jan. 20, 2010, 04:04 PM
I have four strands of coated high tensile. It's not the hotcote, but it's the same diameter.

At one point we had a hot tape fence to keep the horses out of the barnyard. We decided to replace it with coated high tensile. In doing so, the fence was down for a few days and the horses could once again come into the barnyard and make merry. My TWH didn't realize we'd replaced the fence with the black, coated, high tensile. We were finishing it up when he galloped full blast into it, from barnyard back to pasture... just not realizing those fence posts now had fence on them again. It was frightening as hell to watch, as he was literally blasting past us, full gallop, not 10 feet away from us when he hit it...when BOING it stretched and held him and he boinged backwards. He popped some fence staples(the strands were on the other side of the posts) but he was totally unmarked. Bruised, sure- but he was fine.

I love the stuff. If I could do it over I'd have done the hot cote, as I do have to back up the coated HT with electric, or they'll paw it and lean on it. Turkeys. You could get by with four strands, making the top and middle hot cote, then the other two, just plain coated high tensile. I LOVE my fence.

I'm sure it was frightening at the time, but I am dead serious that I would seriously pay money to see a video of that. :lol:

Lieslot
Jan. 20, 2010, 06:51 PM
I need more breaking strength. How safe is the coated electric wire? Will it slice through tendons or does the coating truly prevent those type of injuries?

My WB once galloped into it and got his right foot through the 2nd line. (fence was not electrified at that time). He was pretty tangled up in it and was pulling back heavily. I rushed over to unstuck his front leg, but another mega-panic pull and he got himself loose.
I feared the worse, convinced he had sliced the back of his pastern.
When I got to him to my relief only the hair was rubbed off, but other then that, nothing, no blood, no cut, just the hair rubbed off.
He did this once more a few months later, but then not at full force, just put his foot through it trying to graze the other side & got his foot stuck again (bottom line), same story took off the hair but no other mark and no injury.

As for the fenceline after he galloped in it and pulled out, the line just stretched with him, took out a few black fence insulators, but did not break.

3 years ago I also had a friends TB gallop into it at full speed. Hit the fence in the chest and got bounced backward. The horse had ribbled burnmarks on his chest, some hairloss, but again no blood or cut.

So far I've been happy with it.

CoolMeadows
Jan. 20, 2010, 09:40 PM
Thanks for sharing your experiences! VERY happy to hear about horses bouncing off it and tangles not ending in blood loss.

I wheeled the perimeter today and have priced out a ton of options. I was going to go with a top flex rail and 4 lines under, but if I recycle the tape as the top rail for visibility and use 4 lines under, I can replace all the fields instead of just one. The overall break strength would be 6200'.

katarine
Jan. 20, 2010, 10:51 PM
I'm sure it was frightening at the time, but I am dead serious that I would seriously pay money to see a video of that. :lol:


ok add to that he's black, the posts are black, the wire is black, he's got that WTF is going on here look??? and done....once he was thoroughly bounced, he reconsidered, rolled his eyes at us, and shot through the gate he'd previously deigned. Dork.


Look, Maggie, just go through the gate. That fence will bite you! (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2494/4026468098_6cab407e9b.jpg)

Phaxxton
Jan. 21, 2010, 12:00 PM
My WB once galloped into it and got his right foot through the 2nd line. (fence was not electrified at that time). He was pretty tangled up in it and was pulling back heavily. I rushed over to unstuck his front leg, but another mega-panic pull and he got himself loose.
I feared the worse, convinced he had sliced the back of his pastern.
When I got to him to my relief only the hair was rubbed off, but other then that, nothing, no blood, no cut, just the hair rubbed off.


Yes, but how long was he struggling before you found him and got him loose? If this had happened overnight, would you have been so lucky?

I'm not anti-electric fencing at all, so long as it's HOT and there is perimeter fencing for the property that is stronger... however, I have seen a horse (thankfully not mine) de-glove his leg after being tangled in hotcote fencing overnight.

TrotTrotPumpkn
Jan. 21, 2010, 01:38 PM
I'm not anti-electric fencing at all, so long as it's HOT and there is perimeter fencing for the property that is stronger... however, I have seen a horse (thankfully not mine) de-glove his leg after being tangled in hotcote fencing overnight.

Do you know if it was tensioned tight enough? Just curious.

Phaxxton
Jan. 21, 2010, 01:52 PM
Do you know if it was tensioned tight enough? Just curious.

That's an excellent point. I can't be 100% sure, as it wasn't my farm. I'd been there many times, though, and the fencing seemed to be installed properly (definitely no sagging or other really obvious faults). That's about all I can attest to, though. The wire did break, but only in one place.

Strange, freak accident for sure... but I fully understand that horses can and will find ways to hurt themselves even in the "safest" of environements.

Lieslot
Jan. 21, 2010, 02:44 PM
Yes, but how long was he struggling before you found him and got him loose? If this had happened overnight, would you have been so lucky?

I know he has done it more often when I'm not there.
Only reason I know, when I take his bell boots off after turnout I can see the missing hair, only one way this could have happened.....
And I've had to go in search of his bell boot on occasions too, only to find it hanging on the bottom strand of the fence.
He loves to eat the grass on the other side. Electrifying sorts this problem as he will not try to do so. He knows very well when the fence is on & when it's off.

NoDQhere
Jan. 21, 2010, 04:32 PM
Do you know if it was tensioned tight enough? Just curious.

Any type of wire fence, coated or not, can become very dangerous if loose. If a post gets broken for instance, the fence will become loose and if a horse gets into it at that point, it is a trainwreck.

We just had a freak accident here the other day. I had salvaged some Horse Guard tape that went through our flood. We had been cleaning it up and rolling it onto spools for re-use. Apparently a short piece of it got missed and then blown into one of the pastures. As only a horse could do, one of the two-year olds got this 10-15 foot piece of tape "tied" around his rear fetlock :eek:. Of course he bolted when he saw the monster on his leg and came tearing across the pasture. And of course we have ice everywhere resulting in him sliding right through the fence. The post broke and he "jumped" through the 3 strands of Horse Guard which fortunately just slipped off his legs. At this point he got stopped (we saw what was happening) and stood staring at the monster and looking at us walking towards him, telling him to "whoa, fella, we'll save you". We took the monster off of him and looked him over. Not a mark on him.

Because horses are so good at having the freak accident, I don't think we can keep them 100% safe regardless of what we fence them in with. But I shudder to think what would have happened if it was a wire fence he slid through.

What are the odds of this kind of thing happening?? Really, I would much rather win the lottery :rolleyes:

Incidentally the rest of the youngsters stayed on the proper side of the fence, even though the fence was essentially on the ground.

Lieslot
Jan. 21, 2010, 07:24 PM
I don't know what color the hotcote/equicote (equikote -?spelling) of other users out here is, but mine is brown and I have to say I think the visibility isn't all that great however.
I love my fencing but when we had the TB visiting, I truly think he just did not see the fenceline, hence galloped into it. I've since put a single line of white tape around it, to increase visibility.

This is something I'm not so happy about with my fencing. I may even consider taking one strand out & replace it with a strand hi-viz yellow electric rope or so.

CoolMeadows
Jan. 21, 2010, 07:47 PM
Eeek DQ, that sounds like a scary thing to watch! And Phaxxton, the whole degloving thing is exactly what I'm scared of.

I have done major shopping around, got some great advice from people here and have spoken to a few fence dealers. Of course they said they'd never had an accident reported with the hotcote. The company I'm ordering from also said they'd never heard of horses breaking through Horseguard before and had heard nothing but good things about it. It has been mostly wonderful, but I won't sleep well till it's gone.

Here's what I've decided on:
Top strand of 1" Hotsite (http://www.centaurdirect.com/hotsiteelectricflexible1inchrail.aspx) (2000lb breakstrength), 1 strand of White Lightning (http://www.centaurdirect.com/lightningcoatedelectrichorsefence1320ft.aspx) (same product as Hotcote according to the reps), 2 strands of PolyPlus (http://www.centaurdirect.com/polypluscoatedhorsefence1320ft.aspx), and I will recycle one strand of my Horseguard as a fifth bottom strand. Top, middle and bottom will be electrified.

I'm hoping the wider top and bottom strands will be good for visibility, plus I thought that in case any of the idjits do paw at it or anything silly, it'll likely be at the bottom strand which will be the Horseguard and should break. I will eventually replace the middle strand with 1" Hotsite as well but in order to replace ALL the fields right away, I have to go with the coated wire. Overall fence breakstrength will be around 7200lbs.

My posts are capped Tposts. I'm ordering these (http://www.fence-depot.com/shopnow/horsefence/centaur/tpostsleeve.shtml) to cover them and add even more visibility. My 5.25" flex fenced field is black, but I'm going with white for the thinner fencing. Should look like the pic in the second post here (http://www.horseforum.com/farm/fencing-31074/) except with a wider top and bottom strand.

So.... any last words of advice? My order is in the shopping cart at the checkout phase. Just freaking out slightly and hoping I'm doing the right thing.

EventerAJ
Jan. 21, 2010, 08:02 PM
I managed a farm for 6 years that had the Centaur polymer-coated high tensile wire. I helped install most of it, and it was pretty easy.

It is a fairly safe fence; as with anything, horses WILL find a way to injure themselves. But only ONCE did we have a horse get loose, and she was so determined to leave her field and follow her buddy she would have gone through a brick wall (and seriously injured herself). With the HTP fencing, she had a scrape on her hindleg and that was it.

Had several instances of horses bouncing off it with nary a mark. Had several horses paw it (feeding time) and get a small abrasion on the pastern, but nothing major. The ones that stuck a whole leg through might rip out some staples 2 or 3 posts down, but neither horse nor fence were overly damaged.

The worst instance happened when the middle strands were just a little bit loose. I don't know what he was doing, but a quiet gelding in individual turnout managed to get a hindleg through the 3rd/4th strands, back through the lower 2nd/3rd strand, with the 3rd strand caught under his shoe. :eek: I don't know how long he was hung up-- possibly 30 minutes or an hour. He was incredibly patient when I found him; had possibly struggled a little, but not too much. I cut those three strands of wire to get him free, but I had to remove the shoe to get the wire off (yikes!). He was wearing boots, and his hind shins were spared; his hock skin was shredded, and the whole leg was very swollen for a few days. No lasting ill-effects, though, and you can be SURE that fence was kept super tight after that!

We had 5 strands of normal thick poly wire, with a thinner coated electrified polystrand on top. Most horses respected it just fine.

TrotTrotPumpkn
Jan. 22, 2010, 01:43 PM
Can I ask a dumb question? Can you use T-posts with these tensioned products? I guess maybe if you have a perfectly straight line it is ok (and of course reinforced/braced wood end-posts at corners).

Do they stay straight over the long haul?

It always seems like the fences I see with t-posts end up tilting...

[but I do understand and appreciate the concept of a budget too!!]

Lieslot
Jan. 22, 2010, 03:28 PM
For hotcote to be safe, you need correct tension. My concern with T-posts would be, how do you get enough tension on there without the corner T-posts giving as soon as a horse were to lean or bump into it.

The safety of the fence is the bounce back, my guess, with T-posts, no bounce back as I suspect a T-post might bend or come with it.

But that's just me guessing, perhaps I underestimate the sturdyness of a well grounded T-post.

dmalbone
Jan. 22, 2010, 03:34 PM
From what I understand and remember reading (do NOT take my word on this and go and buy hundred of $$ worth of t posts . :)) T posts are okay for line posts with the coated wire. BUT you would still need solid wood corner and brace posts. All of the tension on a high-tensile fence is on the corner posts, so the line posts wouldn't have nearly as much pressure as you might think.

CoolMeadows
Jan. 22, 2010, 03:48 PM
From what I understand and remember reading (do NOT take my word on this and go and buy hundred of $$ worth of t posts . :)) T posts are okay for line posts with the coated wire. BUT you would still need solid wood corner and brace posts. All of the tension on a high-tensile fence is on the corner posts, so the line posts wouldn't have nearly as much pressure as you might think.

This is exactly what the reps have told me as well.

NoDQhere
Jan. 22, 2010, 04:12 PM
I would think that by the time you buy the t post covers and the t posts themselves you will have spent more $$ than a wood post, wouldn't you? Around here t posts are about $4.00. We do have sections of fence where we had to use t posts. We have just caps, not covers, and they do shift around much more than wood posts.

CoolMeadows
Jan. 22, 2010, 06:57 PM
I would think that by the time you buy the t post covers and the t posts themselves you will have spent more $$ than a wood post, wouldn't you? Around here t posts are about $4.00. We do have sections of fence where we had to use t posts. We have just caps, not covers, and they do shift around much more than wood posts.

How tall are yours? Mine don't shift, or haven't yet.

I installed the flex fence field by myself, and that ended with a rented Bobcat with auger stuck in a handstand with auger deep in the clay. No thanks.

So I paid (through the nose) for local guys to install the wood ring fencing. Came home one day and realized things looked.... weird. The ring fence was all different heights. No joke, some parts had post parts bolted on top of posts and were SEVEN feet. Earl, Earl and Earl all claimed this was so that it would look even and pretty from the house. I just love living in the Appalachian Mountains.

Also, since the place was totally wooded when I first moved in, I had to start with smaller paddocks and eventually expand them to full size once the grass was more established in newly cleared areas. Between that and realizing I was looking at hundreds of posts that would need to be put in by me alone and that I don't trust Bobcats or builders anymore, I went with the Tposts.

I could pull them all, sell them, and sink wood posts but it would mean digging at least 385 post holes by hand. I don't see where I'd have time to do that between work, regular farmwork, working the horses, keeping up the house, having some type of life, classes (never ending!), etc...

So they're not ideal, but they don't shift, rot, splinter or attract termites and they're going to have to do.

Ridge Runner
Jan. 22, 2010, 08:12 PM
I honestly don't think there is such a thing as a fence that is 100% horse safe or horse proof. I've seen horses plow through 4 board fence doing a lot of damage to themselves in the process. I've seen horses very badly injured in high tensile...and IMO that is one of the worst choices for horse fencing..second only to barb wire. I have no experience with hot kote or whatever it's called but if it's high tensile..forget it. I've had the Spur vinyl rail and while horses would bounce off of it, they can still hit a post and get hurt or flip over it or slip through it between the rails. I've seen horses crash into diamond wire mesh and get legs hung in it and get injured. Again, they could flip over it depending on how they hit it..but run through it...probably not. My choice would probably be the diamond wire mesh if I had no limit on funds. It has the advantage of keeping unwanted animals out also.

I've had Horseguard now for over 10 years and the last 5 years have been here on this farm with around 40 horses behind it including a number of active breeding stallions and mares/foals. It is around my entire perimeter also...4 strands on wooden posts. Once or twice I've had foals pop through it when they are very young and not yet fencewise(I do not put the foals up near the road just in case), but other than that, I can't think of any horse that has just run through it unprovoked. I had one filly crash out that was being chased by her pasturemates and there was not a mark on her. I've had legs stuck through it and it breaks with no injury to the horse and over the last 10 years, I don't think I've had one fence related injury from the tape. I have had injuries from some wood fencing still on our farm...several times now...but not the tape.

I guess I can understand why you feel as you do...but I don't think there is a perfect fence...you will have to compromise on something...either your horses' safety or the chance that they can get through it if the wrong set of circumstances arises again.

CoolMeadows
Jan. 22, 2010, 08:41 PM
Apparently the chance that they can get through it is NOT considering their safety at this point. I'm far from the road, but the fact they galloped down the very long(steep, asphalt!) driveway is scary too. What if they kept going and were hit by moving cars?

I have to weigh it out, yes. I'd rather deal with scrapes than peel one off a road at this point. I don't want wood. The worst injury I've ever dealt with was caused by 4 board fencing on a leased property. Big young hanoverian ran straight through it and punctured his chest.

Never thought they'd challenge horseguard either, but there you have it. Sounds like yours have gone through it a few times too, glad they didn't get hurt while out.

Ridge Runner
Jan. 22, 2010, 08:49 PM
Never thought they'd challenge horseguard either, but there you have it. Sounds like yours have gone through it a few times too, glad they didn't get hurt while out.

No, no one got hurt. I will pray there isn't a first time. We don't have much road frontage and they tend to stay near their friends. We have aisles that they stay in also and only in a few places do they share a fenceline. I think the few times I've had the Horseguard run through, I was nearby when it happened.

One was a new TB boarder this past Summer who just literally ran through it her first time out when one of her new companions got too close to her. She has not done it again and we were right there when she did it and got her caught right away. If it had been a board fence she would have been badly injured.

Truly though...I don't think I've ever had a fence that was truly solid enough that a horse could not find a weak spot and get out. I've seen them crash down metal gates...about 50% of the escapes I've had over the years were gates demolished.

Good luck whatever you choose to do. If I had the money, I'd probably install the Diamond Wire Mesh but it's only a dream. My budget will not allow that.

CoolMeadows
Jan. 22, 2010, 09:09 PM
My budget definitely doesn't allow for Vmesh either.

All the stuff is still sitting in my shopping cart because I'm so back and forth over what to go with.

I can do three rails of the 1" electrified mini rail. It would more or less look like three strands of horseguard but with 6000lbs of breaking strength compared to 1800lbs. That stuff shouldn't be able to cause degloving accidents right?

I could do 4 strands of the mini rail for 8000lbs breaking strength but that's starting to push the budget for the whole place.

I really don't know what to do at this point.

What about 3 strands of the hot mini rail and recycle the horseguard to the bottom fourth strand? That would allow me to redo the entire place, and I can replace the bottom strand in time for four electric mini rails.

Aaah, someone tell me what to order. Order is being placed tomorrow, no matter what. I just don't want to regret whatever I get.

Ridge Runner
Jan. 22, 2010, 10:17 PM
Do you have the websites? I'll look at it and see if I can mull it over any.

CoolMeadows
Jan. 22, 2010, 10:34 PM
Here's the electric mini rail: http://www.centaurdirect.com/hotsiteelectricflexible1inchrail.aspx

I was going to do that with three strands of electric coated wire under and a bottom of the horseguard and eventually replace the middle wire with 1" hotsite for three electric minirails and coated wire between.

I could also do four strands of the coated electric wire and recycle the horseguard to the top as well.

Or 3 strands of the mini rail with a fourth of recycled horseguard.

Too many choices!

dmalbone
Jan. 22, 2010, 10:40 PM
Daydream... hotcote is a COATED high tensile wire, so not the cheese slicer stuff that regular high tensile is.

As far as how many and spacing... I deliberated about that forever as well. I settled on 6 strands with a top rail because I was worried about spacing. The times I've seen or heard of escapees with any of the centaur/ramm type stuff it wasn't hot or they slipped through the strands when they ran into them. To me having them closer together seemed like it might help eliminate the rambunctious youngster slipping through. Maybe... where there's a will there's a way though. :)

dmalbone
Jan. 22, 2010, 10:41 PM
what height are you doing? That will help with spacing info.

hollynanne
Jan. 22, 2010, 10:49 PM
If you have high-tensile (electrified or not), as another poster said... make sure the tension is correct! If it is not installed properly, then a horse could get a leg between 2 wires and fall, essentially twisting the wire around their leg. If it is to the correct tension, then that **shouldn't** happen.

Again, with the... "if horses are determined to hurt themselves, they are going to"...

We also have a set of bolt cutters... If you needed to get a horse out, cut the wire A GOOD DISTANCE (like 20 feet) away from the horse. If you can get to your tensioner and release it, all the better. Our tensioners in Iowa had a little 'switch' you could get in there with a flathead screwdriver and flip it.

We now have a tiny little acreage in NW Washington. We only have 2 horses and 2 goats (and 2 kids and 2 dogs... gawd... I feel like Noah and the ark!). We have only 30 wood posts and 150 t-posts. ~1800' perimeter-wise. 5 strands of high tensile works just dandy for us! :)

Oh- This doesn't pertain to the OP, as she has done a ton of research, but to those who were asking about t-posts... if your t-posts are put in correctly and evenly from one wood corner to the next wood corner, then it won't bend.

Ridge Runner
Jan. 22, 2010, 10:51 PM
Well, I like that 1" rail a lot more than the coated wire...but I prefer more visual barrier fences and it would seem a bit stronger and less likely to injure a horse that tangled with it. I also like that it's hot...that might help some with fence respect.

Could you do maybe two strands of that with your existing Horseguard? Maybe the 2nd and 3rd or 1st and 3rd rails?

Also, you do realize this is a tension fence and you will have to really brace your corners? I had the Spur vinyl rail at my old farm and that stuff was hard to keep tight...it would practically pull my end posts out of the ground...and we thought we had it braced appropriately. It would end up loose before too long and I'd be back to where I started. Horseguard does take some tension but we generally manage with just concreting in our ends.

CoolMeadows
Jan. 22, 2010, 10:53 PM
what height are you doing? That will help with spacing info.

The top rail can't be placed higher than 54" on the post covers.

dmalbone, do you have any pictures of yours? What color did you go with?

I can't go with a large top rail unless I replace all my posts and while I'd like the look, I'm not sure I can pull it off.

6 strands with a top rail sounds so secure though! I wonder if I could go with 6 strands and re use my tape as the top rail for visibility? That'd be a fence with around 10k break strength and the spacing would be close enough together (7.7" apart) that impact should disperse pretty well right?

That would also be about the cheapest option. How far from the ground did you put your bottom strand?

Ridge Runner
Jan. 22, 2010, 10:55 PM
Daydream... hotcote is a COATED high tensile wire, so not the cheese slicer stuff that regular high tensile is.



I'm sure it's safer than regular high tensile but I just don't like thin fencing like that. The visual isn't as good...doesn't look as solid... and it will cut faster than a wider rail.

CoolMeadows
Jan. 22, 2010, 11:00 PM
Well, I like that 1" rail a lot more than the coated wire...but I prefer more visual barrier fences and it would seem a bit stronger and less likely to injure a horse that tangled with it. I also like that it's hot...that might help some with fence respect.

Could you do maybe two strands of that with your existing Horseguard? Maybe the 2nd and 3rd or 1st and 3rd rails?

Also, you do realize this is a tension fence and you will have to really brace your corners? I had the Spur vinyl rail at my old farm and that stuff was hard to keep tight...it would practically pull my end posts out of the ground...and we thought we had it braced appropriately. It would end up loose before too long and I'd be back to where I started. Horseguard does take some tension but we generally manage with just concreting in our ends.


That's the other option I'm seriously considering: a top and middle of Hotsite 1" rail and my current tape as the bottom rail. That would be a lower breaking strength though than 6 coated wires with a top of tape, and there would be a good bit of space between rails to slip through.

I know it's a tensioned fence and am good with that. I have the tensioned 5.25" flex fence around one field. The only time I've had to re-tension it was when a tree got hit by lightning and fell on it... was on a young mare in the ring at the time, talk about a bombproofing test: she passed :) Otherwise, it's been pretty easy but my bracing systems are huge (went with round corners because I like them so every bend is seriously reinforced).

dmalbone
Jan. 22, 2010, 11:36 PM
The top rail can't be placed higher than 54" on the post covers.

dmalbone, do you have any pictures of yours? What color did you go with?

I can't go with a large top rail unless I replace all my posts and while I'd like the look, I'm not sure I can pull it off.

6 strands with a top rail sounds so secure though! I wonder if I could go with 6 strands and re use my tape as the top rail for visibility? That'd be a fence with around 10k break strength and the spacing would be close enough together (7.7" apart) that impact should disperse pretty well right?

That would also be about the cheapest option. How far from the ground did you put your bottom strand?

Ours isn't up yet. :( It was supposed to be up last month, but it got to snowy and now everything is MUUUUUUD. It's not spring yet. It's supposed to be winter in Indiana. :) We bought the black stuff. I got the idea about the fencing from a fellow COTH's blog http://javasbarn.blogspot.com/2009_05_01_archive.html (pics towards the bottom). We're doing 7 strands without a top rail down the middle to separate the 2 pastures (save a teeny bit of money). As far as being solid, we also might have a stallion here eventually, so the fence is taller and is going to be hot as heck! Right now we're STILL debating on 5 1/2' or 6' tall, so that will effect the spacing. I'm going to keep the bottom strand no higher than 8" though for dogs. I'd do 6", but want to give myself a little extra weed-room.

dmalbone
Jan. 22, 2010, 11:49 PM
That's the other option I'm seriously considering: a top and middle of Hotsite 1" rail and my current tape as the bottom rail. That would be a lower breaking strength though than 6 coated wires with a top of tape, and there would be a good bit of space between rails to slip through.
Hmmm... so you would only have 3 "rails" of some sort? I'm not sure that would be enough for what it sounds like you want. I saw the Hotsite and it just seemed so much smaller than I expected. I'm sure the Hotsite is much safer, but I think I would want more than 2+ tape.

CoolMeadows
Jan. 23, 2010, 10:50 PM
So.... I have more questions. How are you guys tensioning your ends and corners? There are a few options out there. Kencove's (http://www.kencove.com/fence/Safety-Loop+Connector_detail_CWTW.php) end versions (http://www.kencove.com/fence/Coated+Wire+Tensioner_detail_SCWT.php) look a little more horse friendly to me than Centaur's do (http://www.centaurdirect.com/fencerslasso.aspx).

Kencove's corners are all about this (http://www.kencove.com/fence/detail.php?code=ICPW), and then there are these (http://www.centaurdirect.com/porcelaindoughnutwireinsulator10pk.aspx) and these. (http://www.centaurdirect.com/lagcornerinsulator.aspx)

And final decision is 5 strands of Centaurs version of Hotcote, with recycled Horseguard as a 6th top strand.

Phaxxton, I think maybe the horse you knew who got injured was in Equifence which is medium tensile instead of high so isn't installed with the same amount of tension as Hotcote and White Lightning are. I hope so anyway.

BasqueMom
Jan. 24, 2010, 09:51 PM
CoolMeadows, you're certainly doing your homework!

The Safety-Loop Connector is new and think we're going to add them for the termination--the end without a tensioner for PolyPlus. The round tensioner--not so enthused about--it's an inline (between posts) tensioner rather than one that attaches to the post which puts them more out of the way.

The lasso like insulated tensioner you pictured is not Centaur's but they have
one similar. Many folks also use these for PolyPlus. You can also use for the
PolyPlus a tensioner without the lasso and attach to post with a 5-inch ring shank nail or a lag bolt.

The corner collars are also somewhat new and ordered a bag to see what these
were like--kinda cool. But you may still need some Insultube for the areas where the White Lightning touches a post or brace.

The one corner donut type insulator doesn't look like it is geared for coated wire.
The lag bolt corner insulator would be more suitable. DH feels the most secure way is the older way of running the White Lightning around the outside of the corner post, using a length of insultube to insulate it from the corner post and any brace posts.

PM me if you would like an installation DVD--it's divided into sections for the different types of fencing. Might answer some questions for you.

CoolMeadows
Jan. 24, 2010, 10:04 PM
Thank you! Going to send you a PM. I would love to see the CD, that would help a ton. There are so many different versions out there of the correct way to install! I only want to put this stuff up once and I want to be happy with it when it's done so I'm annoying the @#$! out of anyone who knows about this kind of stuff (you guys and the very patient fence reps) :winkgrin:

I like the look of the corner collars too, thanks for the tip on using tubing with them.

Ridge Runner
Jan. 25, 2010, 11:22 AM
I keep the ground around those ground rods very wet and they are enclosed in a perimeter chain-link fence to keep people and animals out - touching a ground rod that happens to get activated is a great way to get dead.

I did not know that a ground rod could be dangerous! I'll get mine fenced off also!

katarine
Jan. 25, 2010, 03:05 PM
:no:

A good solar charger (I like Parmac) that is well grounded with three ground rods is fine and those ground robs hooked to a good solar charger are not Satanic Rods of Instantaneous Smoking Death. Good heavens what's going to happen, are you going to sit down in wet grass holding an infant who happens to have a pacemaker, maybe while you also submerge your left arm in a bucket of water...AND touch the ground rods? Really?

You don't need horses to be deathly afraid of your fence. That's nonsense. They need to respect it, not pancake you because you led them too close to a fence line. I DO agree with leave it on, 24/7. Don't put guesswork into fence management.

Four strands of white hot cote is plenty of fence. Or five. If four, heat up the top and the 2nd from the bottom. If five, heat up 2nd, 3rd, and top. Six is overkill and you'll play hell keeping vegetation off the bottom if you go with 6 strands. String surveyor's tape from it so they KNOW it's there then take it off. They'll know where the fence is.

buy some of those clip on 'yeah, I'm on' blinkie things so you can see at a distance if the fence is on.

Done.

dmalbone
Jan. 25, 2010, 05:24 PM
Six is overkill and you'll play hell keeping vegetation off the bottom if you go with 6 strands.


I would say definitely for her height, but I measured out 6 for a 5 1/2' fence and it was what I consider "normal". I think the problem is putting it too close to the ground. That's when you have vegetation problems. I could put 4 or 6, but if they're 3" off the ground you're going to have the same problems.

dmalbone
Jan. 25, 2010, 05:24 PM
... and I didn't know if you were talking about my mention of 6 strands or not... just wanted to throw that out there in case there were others reading interested in the same fencing.

katarine
Jan. 25, 2010, 06:56 PM
... and I didn't know if you were talking about my mention of 6 strands or not... just wanted to throw that out there in case there were others reading interested in the same fencing.

gotcha- i missed the detail on the covers being 54" tall. I was thinking normal t posts, which would mean like a 4' tall fence or so.

I'd have my corners professionally installed. Too much work for two peeps on a weekend lol :)