Future of Middleburg

[caballo_saltando]

http://www.futureofmiddleburg.org/

For those of you who love the Middleburg area and don't know about this issue yet - go to the site above and please help if you can.

[caballo_saltando]

http://www.futureofmiddleburg.org/

For those of you who love the Middleburg area and don't know about this issue yet - go to the site above and please help if you can.

[Elghund2]

I think this is an overreaction to Mrs. Johnson's plans. She is doing a lot to preserve the land and access to it. It is not like thousands of people are going to be pouring into Middleberg everyday.

Overall I think this is a good development that will be good for the surrounding the town and the surrounding area. People should remember that this property could have been developed into a lot of houses and closed off from access. She is keeping it viable.

"I thought I was dead once but it turns out, I was only in Nebraska."

[poltroon]

I've never been to Middleburg.

But from out here in California ... you think 58 guest rooms, even 120 rooms, is huge? For 253 acres? 50 car trips in a day, even over a two-lane road, is not a lot. And that's if it's full.

I would ask how much of the traffic will be everyday traffic, and how much will be "special occasion" traffic.

I would think that if the land is to be developed (and the only way to keep it from being developed in some fashion is for the town to buy it) an equestrian resort/complex would be very appropriate.

[armandh]

towns quickly run out of money and/or tax payers quickly run out of town when the buying spree starts, then when the town is broke it will be seeking and stuck with tacky development just for the revenue.
our town spent about 3X it's annual budget for land B4 we could wrest control from the loonies.
ps we are in a pricey part of the county and they were spending an average of $280,000/acre

[ideayoda]

Middleburg will become Potomac within the next 20 years. When Ogden Phillps died and his land was split, the larger lots (20 to 40 acres) with multimillion dollar houses went in and farms started to break down...about 30 years ago. Then more and more development out to foxcroft/to upperville/etc. It will always have a qaint atmosphere. But hunting grounds are broken except for some of the massive P Mellon acreages out beyond. Orange/Middleburg/etc hunts are being limited for sure. The tacky development will be million dollar houses. But the atmosphere will leave....so go more and more west until you hit the rocks beyond upperville...stilllllll not developed yet!

Has there ever been approval for the highway to go north of main street (foxcroft side)?

I.D.E.A. yoda

[LisaB]

Please do try to visit Middleburg and understand what these concerned citizens are trying to do. There's absolutely no need for development in the area. The folks have tried to maintain thier farms in order to keep the countryside a pristine environment for nature. If hotels and tract housing start coming into the area, then all the farms will disappear, much like what happened in So.CA, Herndon VA, and parts of FL. These people want to keep their homes and thier lives. Not have someone stick a big resort in there and make another Disneyland-like place. The area is steeped in history and culture and if these people come in and develop, it will all be lost.

[Glimmerglass]

LisaB, you took the words out of my mouth.

Anyone who hasn't been to M'burg really should, first, then understand that a "need for jobs" isn't prevalent and there are enough deep pockets and protective citizens vigalent about keeping it the size it is. Shades of the the massive fight against Disney anyone?

Accordingly, Ms. Johnson should just scale down the facility to something more size appropriate. No one is saying the facility isn't welcomed but why create a mini-city?

Look at the Goodstone Inn for what works best or even better yet look to places like Lenox, MA which has a number of sizable resorts and spas (Canyon Ranch, for example) but they all fit in and are very sympathetic to the area so many want to preserve and enjoy.

[Heather]

Ya know, I'd be a lot more sympathic to all this if the majority of the people fussing about their quality of life and the history of the area weren't the exact same folks who made their fortunes destroying OTHER people's farms, homes, towns, and quality of life. You know, the Greenway used to be a lot of farms, and all the money that went into making it tract housing, condos, and a toll road flowed right back to Middleburg bigwig pockets so they could support their own cajillion dollar farms.

So you'll excuse me if I'm not buying their belief in the sanctity of farmland. THEIR farmland sure, but screw everybody else. There is so much more at play here than land use issues--issues of racism, good old boy networks, NIMBY, exclusionism, etc. etc.

It'll be quiote a fight to watch, I'm already buying the popcorn.

[Whistlejacket]

Some of the factual and practical issues and questions to be considered regarding this proposed development can be found on the website for the Piedmont Environmental Council (PEC)

www.pecva.org/counties/loudoun/loudoun.asp (http://www.pecva.org/counties/loudoun/loudoun.asp)

(Check out the "set of questions" listed on this web page)

The Piedmont Environmental Council is a non-profit organization dedicated to the conservation of the rural and historical character of the Piedmont. Over the years, I have been impressed by how the PEC takes an intelligent, factual, well-studied, and balanced approach to such issues as being discussed here.

[Ash]

Umm...Heather, how is this racist?

************************************************** **********************************************
"I'm not going to have reporters pawing through
our papers. We are the president."
-- Hilary Clinton

[Heather]

I have heard with my own ears very racist comments made about Mrs. Johnson. The Olde South is alive and well in this area, and a wealthy, educated, African American woman is very threatening to many of these people. There are people who don't give a rats a$$ about the land that would oppose her plans for that reason alone.

[LisaB]

Uh, geez, Heather, got any facts to back this up? Who are these people you're talking about? I haven't met one Middleburg-er who fits your profile.

[Magnolia]

Middleburgians,
If you don't want, I know a place that would beg on its knees for something like that!

It's tough - you make a great place, and want to pull up the drawbridge so you can stop development and keep it nice - can't fault you!

Then, down the road, there are places that need development to be as nice as your place, and nobody will do anything for them.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

[Magnolia]

Heather-
I think you are way overreacting. The people protesting are NIMBY's. it happens all the time. They aren't racist - they just like what they have, and have fear, justified or not of change.

This project is an unknown factor. Will it encourage development that takes more hunting land? Will it lead to more development that raises land taxes?

I see it ALL THE TIME in the city, people oppose public housing supposedly because they are "racist", when the reality is that while race may be an issue, bigger issues include property values, noise, land preservation.... whatever, and a good dose of unknown fear.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

[LisaB]

True, Magnolia. Come on down my way. We need some resort development in my county, badly. We have strip mines and closed up factories. Meanwhile, farmers who can't keep up with thier land, let it go fallow. And they are waiting for someone to buy it up and make it beautiful again. Or, sell it to the next bidder and make whatever out of it but I know they would hold out for something like this. Middleburg doesn't need it nor do they want it. They have fought long and hard to try to keep the community as it is for a reason. To keep some semblance of rural VA as it was in the midst of DC encroaching upon them. Yes, the land is darn expensive in the area but for a reason, to make it hard to buy and subdivide or put a super Wal-Mart in there. It's the last bastion of the old VA in the No. VA area. Hopefully, it won't be like the Alamo.

[Inverness]

I think the planned Courtland Rural Village development is a much greater threat to the area. I'd rather see the Middleburg land preserved as a park, but given the choice between an equestrian resort and more McMansions, I'll take the resort any day.

In the last 6 months the rolling fields across from my barn (Loudoun County) have been transformed into row upon row upon row of 3-story townhouses. No more meadows and no more view of the Piedmont. It is truly a shame.

I'd love to live out in that area, but I can't see how to manage it without becoming a part of the problem myself.

A person is prohibited to eat until he first feeds his animals.

- Babylonian Talmud, Berakhot 40a

[poltroon]

Certainly it's up to Middleburg and the local government etc to work it all out.

In southern California, we've lost plenty of 250 acre and even 1,000 acre ranches (bet you didn't even know we had 'em! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) in the last 20 years. We still lose several every year. It saddens me. Some of the property gets bought and protected by local governments and conservancys, some of it gets developed with some open space, and some of it gets completely paved over.

If you think a 250 acre rural retreat resort will 'wag the dog' given it's size compared to Middleburg, imagine what 1,000 single family homes would do. It seems likely that an equestrian themed resort can be persuaded to give easements for trails, community use, even some hunting, etc - but there's no way you're going to get that out of most other uses of the property.

If you want the land to stay completely open, you're going to have to buy it.

A general thought here: Again, I don't know your local politics and development situations. Maybe this has already been done. But, I suggest that your group do some serious triage/assessment of other properties in the area, and what is likely to happen to them. The current owners won't live forever, and DC commuters will continue to sprawl in your general direction if it can. What is likely to happen when they change hands? Who would buy them, and for what purpose? This project may not be the worst of them and this land may not be the most important to protect. (Or, it may be.)

[This message was edited by poltroon on Oct. 15, 2003 at 01:38 PM.]

[LisaB]

Poltroon, too true. I grew up in So. CA and there were a few spots still open. Middleburg is trying to maintain it's countryside while all the rest of Loudon County is sprawling much like So. CA has. It's battling it out. Meanwhile, the next county over did something rather clever a few years back and it seems to be working. They saw Fairfax County, then Loudon county lose all its farms and beautiful country so they made a law that you can only buy x number of acres of land. I think the minimum is 25 acres for every house. Something like that. So basically, DC jumped over the Middleburg-Upperville-Plains area and went to Leesburg, Winchester and CharlesTown WV. Now, Leesburg where USEA is HQ-ed is completely surrounded by tract homes, condos, and strip malls. Luckily they are on Morven Park which has steeplechasing, the DuPont Equine Medical Center and a bunch of other stuff. But they do have a squeeze going there as well.
Yes, Middleburg is affluent. Yes, a lot of those people have more money than I'll see in a lifetime. BUT, I have shopped for horses there, shown, hung out, etc. and it was all reasonably priced without a lot of pomp and circumstance. The people were hard working and pleasant.
Also, as an aside, check out how many USET Eventing team members came from that area. I like to keep it that way.
Like I said, hey, come on down here, we would welcome a resort in this county. We would probably even welcome it next door to Montpelier.

[Janet]

Inverness, where is "Courtland Rural Village"?

KisaB which county are you referring to as "the next county over"?

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

[starboard]

You know, whats wrong with making Middleburg a little more accessible to the 'little person'?? You cant buy property there unless you are a tycoon, and there are no jobs there unless you want to commute to NoVa.
Bring it on Mrs. Johnson (who has done more to preserve land) than most people i've come across.
More jobs, and *gasp* a place to stay that has more than 3 rooms. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Its not like Motel 6 is rolling into the area to plop down roots. Obviously someone like Sheila Johnson would put up a classy facility.

[PiedPiper]

I have to comment that having grown up in Herndon VA and seeing the spreading sprawl it is inevitable that it will impact Middleburg. That land will either be many many McMansions or a large resort and I would pick the lesser of the two evils and go with the resort. This whole area is growing so much that the ability to keep that land together, to me, is more important. Middleburg is a wonderful town but it is very old money high class and completely out dated. It is a dying breed and I am afraid that its days are numbered. Even Winchester is growing rapidly and that is only minutes from West Virginia. The Northern Virginia area has spread from as far south as Fredericksburg up to Winchester and the boom isn't showing any real signs of slowing down. I think that this is just a sign of the times and the people of Middleburg will be, in the end, happier with a large high class resort than hundreds homes being built in their backyards. The whole thing is just sad but so was knowing Herndon when there were only two lights in the town and no rush hour!

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by starboard:
You know, whats wrong with making Middleburg a little more accessible to the 'little person'.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not in the top 1% of the nations wealth by the farthest stretch but when I've been there I haven't had a problem having a meal, drink, do some shopping and enjoy the village for what it is.

I sincerely doubt this is going to be the equivalent of a youth hostel in Hunt Country and thus "accessible to the little person". At Four Seasons rates I'm quite sure I'd be priced out of the market so who is kidding who?

Tasteful is what she wants and I'm sure right down to the custom made Egyptian cotton towels it will be. Although I tend to think Tuscan architecture in an area more associated with slate, fieldstone and Federal architecture likely to stick out.

So why does any discussion of Ms. Johnson inspire the loyalist to quickly claim race and economic snobbery as being reasons anyone would be against her wishes? Case in point - when Ms. Sandy Lerner was doing her restaurant in Upperville people were against that too and she is *gasp* very rich and WHITE.

Worth noting, the late Amb. Pam Harriman owned those lands and despite having to sell off some of her prized possession including several Impressionist works of art due to court order reimbursing Harriman heirs, those hundreds of acres were not touched. Obviously the open land meant more to her ...

[starboard]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by starboard:
You know, whats wrong with making Middleburg a little more accessible to the 'little person'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

meaning, a place to go and stay. Where else is there other than very small B&Bs which fill up months in advance?

[Whistlejacket]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
Inverness, where is "Courtland Rural Village"?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Janet - The website that I listed on my previous post on this thread also discusses the Courtland Rural Village issue. On the site there is a detailed map of the location of the proposed "rural village".

Here is the web address:

www.pecva.org/counties/loudoun/loudoun.asp (http://www.pecva.org/counties/loudoun/loudoun.asp)

Hope this answers your question.

For those who are interested, there is a non-profit organization trying to raise the money to purchase the Courtland site and put it into a nature preserve with public access for hikers.

Here is their website:

www.bansheereeks.org (http://www.bansheereeks.org)

[GotSpots]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> meaning, a place to go and stay. Where else is there other than very small B&Bs which fill up months in advance? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This just isn't true. I come into the Middleburg area on very short notice (usually a couple of days) at least once or twice a month. I have never not been able to find a room in the area, and usually a fairly reasonable one at that, and I prefer the small B&Bs. The Briar Patch often has rooms available, and if they don't, they will pass me on to someone who does. Ditto the Grey Horse in The Plains.

I have nothing against Mrs. Johnson; in fact, I think she's a pretty classy woman who has done an immense amount for the community. And I'd sure rather see this development than McMansions and tract housing. But I'd really rather see rolling farmland and places to hunt and ride. 'Course, I'm a romantic that way...

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Worth noting, the late Amb. Pam Harriman owned those lands and despite having to sell off some of her prized possession including several Impressionist works of art due to court order reimbursing Harriman heirs, those hundreds of acres were not touched. Obviously the open land meant more to her ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The sad fact is that almost any land now developed was once a treasured preserve to someone. Too bad Ms. Harriman did not will it to the Nature Conservancy or another conservation agency.

You have to ask yourself: if you are successful in keeping this property as an open farm (for now), how will that affect your ability to protect the next 250 acre piece that comes up? Make sure you save your best guns for the most important battles.

[Tom King]

I couldn't get the map to come up clearly on my puter. Where is this piece of land relative to downtown Middleburg ? Has the deed changed hands yet ? What is the asking price ?

[PortraitPainter]

You know- one of the major reasons I'm leaving the Richmond area (manakin) is because it's so chopped up into little tiny McMansion-y lots. There is no place to hunt or even go on a decent trail ride near the farm I live at (and it abuts teh Deep Run Hunt Showgrounds). The kennels are actually in Cumberland now. Broad Street (out of Richmond) just keeps coming west- it's now one long snarl of stoplights and homogenized restaurants and malls. They just opened a new one (Short Pump), every one was excited about it. It's gross.

I'm moving closer to the Middleburg area BECAUSE it's this little rural area tucked into the sprawl of NoVa. I sincerely hope there is no great development there. And when I visited M'burg, and talked to people I barely knew (I was job searching) ALL of them seemed like wonderful, working folk willing to help "the little person" like me! I've not had that experience down in Richmond... probably circumstantial, but the amount of warmth and generosity I've received from folks up there has convinced me it's the place I want to be!

I also think development would snowball and suck the charm right out of that area.

-N

www.naominickerson.com (http://www.naominickerson.com)
specializing in equine and canine portraiture and other fine art

[Tom King]

Never mind the location request. I found it somewhere else. Yeah, that sucks ! Bigtime

[Heather]

Actually if you will recall to the previous thread on Ms. Lerner, you will note I thought the way she was treated was FREAKIN' RIDICULOUS. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

And I'm not a Mr.s Johnson loyalist (I wouldn't know her if she knocked at my door right this moment), but I PERSONALLY say that race is a factor, because I PERSONALLY have heard people make racist comments about her. Now I guess it would be fair to say that I don't know if the people I heard making the comments are directly involved in the fight to stop this project (since I don't know their names or anything). However, make no mistake, there are inf;uential people in Middleburg who don't think an African American woman's place is among the rich, educated elite. "Old VIrginia" as it is so romantically called here, was no a day at the beach for everyone.

But what bothers me most is the hyposcrisy. It's Ok for them to destroy other people's viewsheds and farm lands and open space, just so long as they themselves aren't personally impacted or inconvenienced. Is it that they are disgruntled about the resort, or disgruntled that they didn't think of it first?

I enjoy the open space of Virginia, and applaud the efforts of those who work to conserve it. But it simply won't happen if people are so hypocritical about what land gets preserved where.

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Farmdad:
Where is this piece of land relative to downtown Middleburg ? Has the deed changed hands yet ? What is the asking price ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Long since sold for $8.5M

http://www.armfieldmillerripley.com/properties.sold/harriman/index.html

[LisaB]

Janet, the next county over is Rappahanock County. I forget the exact specifics of the land/house ratio but they definitely have kept out the sprawl.
There have been excellent articles on land conservancy floating about because of instances such as this. And Middleburg has been mentioned because of its innovative ways of retaining the countryside. Yes, there's money and power but there's a lot more money and power in the industry that makes these housing developments and businesses. I'm not opposed to development but put it someplace where the jobs are desparately needed like my county. There are a lot of good people out jobs here and we have beautiful countryside to boot.
Another interesting piece of land that is part of a historical conservancy is down near me called Green Springs. While it's not NoVA, Richmond was heading out that way. The folks who own large tracts of land didn't want to see it become another Manakin with tract homes and strip malls. So they made it a historical landmark. The whole area. And while this one house has been for sale for eons with its 500 acres, the man is totally holding out to sell off the whole thing while leasing the land to a cattle farmer.

[Duffy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by starboard:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by starboard:
You know, whats wrong with making Middleburg a little more accessible to the 'little person'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

meaning, a place to go and stay. Where else is there other than very small B&Bs which fill up months in advance?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hmmmm...Not many people I know will be able to afford Ms. Johnson's resort prices...

"B***h in training"

[2ndyrgal]

Middleburg is like no other place on earth, stunningly beautiful especially if you can afford to do more than visit. I am sure I was as upset to see the beautiful farms of my home town developed into subdivisions as you are but with money and people comes change. At the risk of seeming flippant, much like when you sell a beloved horse for even the highest price, once something belongs to someone else, it is a bit much to presume to then tell them what they must or must not do with it. I read a book a few years back, I believe it was called " A Portion for Foxes". There will always be an old money versus new money feud, there will be developments that take away the land we love hunting over, but we need to worry about conserving all land, including family farms, not just what we enjoy sporting over. I cannot fathom that the world needs another strip mall, hotel, housing development or gas station, and yet one pops up every week. If farmers were smart, milk and meat and eggs would cost more than the gasoline we use to drive to the hunt fixture and we probably wouldn't be able to keep our hunt horse in such a luxurious fashion. My horse gets better care than many people who live in this country not all that far from our doorstep. Our hunt (while certainly not as affluent as Middleburg) has simply had to go farther afield and put together large tracts of land not as appealing to developers, but great for hunting. It is quite amazing to me that a push toward development of that area hasn't happened before now, the very location and proximity to the beltway makes it all that more appealing. The only way to keep it, will be to buy it. Someone will.

[PortraitPainter]

2ndrygal-

here here!

so very well said!

-N

www.naominickerson.com (http://www.naominickerson.com)
specializing in equine and canine portraiture and other fine art

[caballo_saltando]

Posted by Heather:

"And I'm not a Mr.s Johnson loyalist (I wouldn't know her if she knocked at my door right this moment), but I PERSONALLY say that race is a factor, because I PERSONALLY have heard people make racist comments about her. Now I guess it would be fair to say that I don't know if the people I heard making the comments are directly involved in the fight to stop this project (since I don't know their names or anything). "

Reply:
http://www.futureofmiddleburg.org/supporters.htm

The above link contains a list of individuals and organizations that oppose this project. You can check and see if the people you have heard making racist comments about her are included in this list, which contains, among others, Jimmy Wofford.

[This message was edited by caballo_saltando on Oct. 20, 2003 at 12:26 PM.]

[SaddleFitterVA]

Not to nitpick, but well, I have to.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Reply:
http://www.futureofmiddleburg.org/supporters.htm

The above link contains a list of individuals and organizations that oppose this project. You can check and see if the people you have heard making racist comments about her are included in this list, which contains, among others, Jimmy Wofford and David O'Connor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

David O'Connor is NOT on that list. A Dawn O'Connor is.

Karen O'Connor is not on it either.

That isn't to say that the O'Connors won't later decide to put their names on...or not, but they currently are not on the list.

[Heather]

What I meant was that I don't know the names of the people who were speaking. These occaision were at large, outdoor, social functions, where you hear people making comments in the buffet line, or waiting for the porta-potty, or in restaraunts, where the table behind you is recieving all sorts of fawning attention from other patrons in the establishment, and between the salad and the main course, you overhear something said. I'll admit it wasn't my immediate reaction to turn and say "Hey, nice racist attitude, what's your name?"

None of the people were the O'Connor's or Jimmy Wofford. I do know what they look like, LOL.

[Hunter's Rest]

I'm a little late to this thread, but Rappahannock COunty (where I've lived for 15+ years) has a 25-acre zoning minimum. This means that larger properties cannot be divided into parcels smaller than that. There are still plenty of already-divided-before-the-statute parcels (10, 20 acres) that are sold from time to time. The zoning helps a bit, but, I'm afraid to say that there are a few ways to prevent sprawl:
At the risk of being egged:

1. Stop having so many babies.
2. Stop having so much money (allowing people to have nice dependable cars to commute from afar to work in cities where they can earn $$ to pay for their 'farm'ette.)
3. Stop building such good roads.
4. Any questions, refer to #1 above.

Sprawl, overcrowded schools, road rage, pollution -- all of it is related to the fact that people aren't meant to live on top of each other. All of it refers to overpopulation.

(Waiting, cringed in my cublicle corner, for the eggs to start flying .....)

Though some may say, and I'll agree, that only God can make a tree.
Before God thought of trees its said, his mind was on the Thoroughbred.
-- Paul Mellon

[caballo_saltando]

woops - I skimmed through it too quickly! Sorry for the mistake - I'll correct it my previous message if you don't mind!!

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Foxhunt4me]

Well, the Lord told us to to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the Earth.

Maybe he can let us know soon that we exceeded this objective and can start working on other things before there is no place left to go :-).

[SLW]

This is too bad for Middleburg. I had the pleasure of living there for one year back in 1980.

I hope the Inn etc. does not come to be. After reading how the woman came about purchasing the property and why she did and reading what she is proposing to do with it, one is left with the feeling that it's about making a buck. It ain't about conserving Virginia's land.

SLW
"The horse stopped with a jerk, and the jerk fell off."

[Elghund2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> "Well, the Lord told us to to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the Earth." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we exceeded that a long time ago. We are certainly not replenishing the earth.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I hope the Inn etc. does not come to be. After reading how the woman came about purchasing the property and why she did and reading what she is proposing to do with it, one is left with the feeling that it's about making a buck. It ain't about conserving Virginia's land.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you need to get an original copy of Mrs. Johnston's plans. Also, you post seems to indicate that she did something underhanded to get the land when all she did was buy it. People who think that you should spend 8.3M on a piece of property and then turn it over to the public are pipe dreaming. What she plans to do with it will fit well with the area. She has already said she will allow people to cross (e.g., the hunts). So there is no real difference between that and when Mrs. Harriman held the land.

What is the difference between people coming there to attend a conference at an inn or the same number of people who used to come to the Harriman's for political events?

"I thought I was dead once but it turns out, I was only in Nebraska."

[Inverness]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SLW:

After reading how the woman came about purchasing the property and why she did and reading what she is proposing to do with it, one is left with the feeling that it's about making a buck. It ain't about conserving Virginia's land.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know nothing about how Ms. Johnson acquired the land but I assume she went about it the same way I did my house - I bought it.

I also don't think there is anything wrong in wanting to make money off of one's investment. It makes perfect sense to me. All in all, if the property is to be developed in some manner, the current plan sounds quite lovely and generally "in tune" with the overall character of the area.

I shudder to think what kind what the result might have been had the typical slash and burn Beltway developer gotten a hold on the property. One need only look at the many nearby developments to appreciate just how irresponsible, insensitive, and greedy a group of "home" builders can be.

A person is prohibited to eat until he first feeds his animals.

- Babylonian Talmud, Berakhot 40a

[SaddleFitterVA]

Inverness,

Yes, just look at Belmont. I foxhunted there once, with Fairfax Hunt. Toll brothers got that one.

I live in the newest slash and burn area, and since I'm in the eastern panhandle of WV, they are daft and haven't noticed much about their neighboring counties and the pitfalls of such developers.

I have read the 2 websites, have driven up and down that road MANY times, LOVE the ambience of Middleburg, and have to agree with those who think it would fit in pretty well. I don't think it is a bad way to have development. Better than a bunch of tacky McMansions. Is it just me, or do others think that the majority of those things are hideously ugly?

Mel

[caballo_saltando]

Hi Saddlefitter -

No, it's not just you - they ARE hideously ugly. New everything, plastic and vinyl wherever they can put it, and they usually try to keep their humongous lawns landscaped aka Florida golf course scene, which totally looks ridiculous in the middle of the country; all the old trees have been hacked down, etc. But really and truely, the huge new houses are hidious, and generally the people that live in them are the same.

And god forbid you hack your horse on the edge of their lawn adjacent to the street for that will disturb the manicured grass. So you must then resort to walking your horse on the road.

What has happened to Cobb House Road is a pretty prime example of it.

[wateryglen]

I don't object to Mrs. Johnsons plans. We can't protect Middleburg anymore ...its too late. The rest of Loudoun County is being developed at an unbelievable rate and surrounding counties ditto. Our proximity to Wash DC is working against keeping large landholdings open. Many local farmers are selling because the taxes are too high. Their kids don't want to farm anymore.
Its really a matter of time. I'll always choose 250 open acres (minus her facilities) to the 5-10 acre parcels. Yes McMansions are hideous. But home/land prices are off the scale. I think too many folks are moving into this area and if you're moving here for horses - think twice and buy further out! I'm thinking Nebraska looks pretty good!! Those of you writing from other states...you are the lucky ones.
You know most of the new developments have names like Hunt Chase, Fox Glen, Huntsmans Landing. I've had to leave 2 area hunts due to development Theres a McMansion built over my first hunts kennels site. Theres a golf course over a fixture site. All its meets are now housing developments. Talk about sad! But I'd love to find out if the McMansion is haunted by the critters buried below it at our old bone pit site!!!

[SLW]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Elghund2:
[QUOTE] I think you need to get an original copy of Mrs. Johnston's plans. Also, you post seems to indicate that she did something underhanded to get the land when all she did was buy it. People who think that you should spend 8.3M on a piece of property and then turn it over to the public are pipe dreaming. What she plans to do with it will fit well with the area. She has already said she will allow people to cross (e.g., the hunts). So there is no real difference between that and when Mrs. Harriman held the land.

What is the difference between people coming there to attend a conference at an inn or the same number of people who used to come to the Harriman's for political events?

"I thought I was dead once but it turns out, I was only in Nebraska.

QUOTE]

My observation came after reading the articles in the Loudoun Paper where the PEC backpeddled after the development plans were announced. Their idea of a conservation buyer is not one who purchases land and develops it with buildings.

An excellent example of land conservation is what Mission Valley Hunt near Louisburg, Kansas did a year or so ago. I don't recall the bells and whistles they went through to do it but they were successful in protecting, by statue, the large tract of land where the kennels are located and the hounds often hunted. The 350 acres of Johnsons is an apartment by Kansas standards.

Would you be able to provide a link to the Johnson information you referenced??? I would be most interested in reading it.

SLW
"The horse stopped with a jerk, and the jerk fell off."

[Glimmerglass]

To the point of "everyone" is cashing out I must say that a lot of huge plots of land have recently been successful protected in that area. Ironically two of the bigger land deals have been with real estate titans who want to preserve the area.

Michael Prentiss, for example, when he acquired the spectacular 1,100 acre "North Wales" estate near Warrenton a few years ago placed almost all of that land under conservation protection with PEC. He's now on the PEC yet he's a major commercial real estate developer (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=pp) out of Dallas.

In a mutual win-win deal local real estate businessman Phillip Thomas sold 1,200 acres - part of his own Ovoka estate (before selling the unoccupied manor house itself this summer) to the PEC in 2001 for 1/2 its value. His Thomas-Talbot (http://www.thomas-talbot.com/) has been selling large estates like the late Mrs. Harriman's for decades but few if any have become developments.

[Hunterman1]

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gifYOU are so RIGHT... Ms. Johnson would definately put up a very nice,exclusive resort and I am sure the clientel would also be of the
" upper crust" so to speak. WHY can't they ALL
just be Thankful that someone has enough interest and capital to invest in this beautiful countryside. I live there and I for one am LOOKING FORWARD TO THE DAY this place opens and is UP and RUNNING... GO Ms. JOHNSON. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Ride'emCO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LisaB:
Please do try to visit Middleburg and understand what these concerned citizens are trying to do. There's absolutely no need for development in the area. The folks have tried to maintain thier farms in order to keep the countryside a pristine environment for nature. If hotels and tract housing start coming into the area, then all the farms will disappear, much like what happened in So.CA, Herndon VA, and parts of FL. These people want to keep their homes and thier lives. Not have someone stick a big resort in there and make another Disneyland-like place. The area is steeped in history and culture and if these people come in and develop, it will all be lost.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes! Middleburg has one stoplight! The people who live there like it that way. Middleburg doesn't need an injection of money and development, it is lovely just the way it is. If you drive through downtown Fairfax you can look at the older buildings and see that it was very much like Middleburg 20 years ago, and now look at it! To see Middleburg become suburbanized would truly be heartbreaking...

[Elghund2]

Mrs. Johnstons plans would help keep M'burg from becoming suburbanized as it would take a lot of land out of the path of development. Our recently held elections just elected a pro-development board. They want to roll back the most recent zoning plans that were helping protect western loudoun and actually want to upzone to higher densities.

The school superintendent just released his building plan for the nect three years at a cost of 850M. That alone will push tax rates north of 1.30 (up from 1.06) which will force many people to sell their land.

Mrs. Johnston's plan will help keep that from happening north of M'burg.

"I thought I was dead once but it turns out, I was only in Nebraska."

[Inverness]

Yes, this last election was very distressing. Leesburg is already ruined and the new Loudoun board is set to McVelop the remaining open land.

A discerning woman prefers old wine and young men.

A person is prohibited to eat until he first feeds his animals.
- Babylonian Talmud, Berakhot 40a

[jetjocky]

I, too, am amazed and appalled at the recent election results. Frederick Co. also is in the developers' sights as we just elected a strongly pro-development board. It makes me so sad, but I have sworn that I will keep tabs on these people and they will hear from me, even tho I may be tilting at windmills. In fact, I have sent letters to our state reps already and have letters to the new board of supervisors in the works.

Let's keep close eyes on these folks; I know ultimately it won't do much good, but at least they won't get a totally free pass.

[LisaB]

Yes, Mr. Prentiss bought North Wales but look at what's surrounding him now. Homes, McMansions, etc. How long will it be before he sees $$$ in his eyes and starts subdividing his land? Yes, he does the cows and racehorses but for how long? Does any hunt go through there? I don't know. I haven't heard but I would doubt it since it's surrounded. I do hope he keeps it especially since one of Baldacci's books bases a farm on it.
This is happening all over the VA countryside. I doubt any hunt or horses would be allowed to go through the Inn's land. And also, being out in the middle of nowhere, you really come to realization on what 'pristine' means. I grew up in So. CA and now event in VA and I never really knew what it meant until I went out on various hunts. And these hunts as well as gun clubs are the largest supporters of land conservancy because they've been out there and realize the beauty of it all.

[Hunter's Rest]

Yes, Warrenton Hunt goes through North Wales - their kennels are basically right across the road from it (closer to town, amazingly). Great territory. Nearly done, though. STOP HAVING SO MANY BABIES. That is the one thing no one's thought of as far as anti-development etc. It would solve a lot of the world's ills. People had 6 and 10 kids 100 years ago because the life expectancy was 45 years and childhood death so likely. We're living til we're 90 now and staying active til we're 85 so why is anyone surprised that there's less green space and more road rage and overcrowded schools ...
Founding member of the no-growthers -- trying to stop overpopulation, one non-reproducer at a time ....

Though some may say, and I'll agree, that only God can make a tree.
Before God thought of trees its said, his mind was on the Thoroughbred.
-- Paul Mellon

[Glimmerglass]

Actually when North Wales (http://spryder.casebook.org/warrenton/show/?img=7a34ac09bfa6c9864578b1f6b5f64568.jpg) was listed for sale one of requirements on the buyer was provisions to keep a large amount of land in open space for the Warrenton Hunt. (The advertisement in the link is from circa 1928, Country Life magazine just before Walter P. Chrysler of auto fame bought it)

In the late 1960's most of the estate, then 3,000 + acres was acquired with the intent to do a massive housing development on the property. There was considerable fights to stave off that development plan (I actually have an original copy of the prospectus) - so to be honest none of these threats are really new. It was that company that held the property largely intact until the sale to Mr. Prentiss.

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunter's Rest:
STOP HAVING SO MANY BABIES. That is the one thing no one's thought of as far as anti-development etc. It would solve a lot of the world's ills. People had 6 and 10 kids 100 years ago because the life expectancy was 45 years and childhood death so likely. We're living til we're 90 now and staying active til we're 85 so why is anyone surprised that there's less green space and more road rage and overcrowded schools ...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're not going to come across many American women having 6 babies any more.

The real problem isn't that we're having too many babies locally - the problem is more that people are moving out of the great plains and into the south. Immigration plays a role, too.

The sooner we can help raise other countries to our standard of living, so people want to stay and even move there, the better.

[caballo_saltando]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunterman1:
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gifYOU are so RIGHT... Ms. Johnson would definately put up a very nice,exclusive resort and I am sure the clientel would also be of the
" upper crust" so to speak. WHY can't they ALL
just be Thankful that someone has enough interest and capital to invest in this beautiful countryside. I live there and I for one am LOOKING FORWARD TO THE DAY this place opens and is UP and RUNNING... GO Ms. JOHNSON. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hunterman - I have to ask - do you live in the "South Riding" MCDevelopment? B/C that is exactly the type of development that we are all cringing about and trying to avoid.

The local elections are appaling. I cannot believe that Loudon elected Russel Potts to represent this county in the VA senate - he is very vocally pro-development; and then the board of commisioners was completely taken over by pro-development. It is truely sad.

The Courtland Farm property really would be the beginning of the end for this area if PEC can't raise enough money to buy out the developers. Does anyone know what the asking price is on that property?

[Inverness]

oh god, I hate the South-Riding McVelopment. My barn is adjacent to that creeping colossus. The land on the other side of the barn property is sprouting townhouses like so many mushrooms.

We bought in Reston largely b/c it has been around for a few decades and it is much more thoughtfully planned than the new McBurb variety development (though I'm sure it too was deplored by some in its day - but at least there are trees and lakes and open space).

I'd have loved to buy a farm or "farmette" but we couldn't afford it and the prospect of living even further out from the workplace AND in a cookie-cutter suburb like South-Riding was distasteful.

I do feel for "average" Americans trying to make a go of it in this area. The cost of living is out of site and sight, housing prices anywhere near DC are obscene (even before factoring in the extra $100k to update the 1946 kitchen and bath), and the only option for many folks who want to have a decent, safe place to live is to move out, out, out and do the rush hour mazurka. The value of our house has risen nearly $100k -- IN ONE YEAR! Good for us, but no wonder young people are having such a tough time purchasing a home in this area and no wonder the developers are hoovering every open space they can find !


_____________________________
A person is prohibited to eat until he first feeds his animals.
- Babylonian Talmud, Berakhot 40a

[SydneyS]

The latest information states that the grounds around the inn would need such an extensive septic system that you could not ride a horse across the fields. So, no hunting would be done on the land, only foot traffic. And the cost of the rooms at the inn would far exceed the Red Fox (the most expensive rooms in town at $170-$375).

I'm not wholeheartedly against the plan, but the way it's been drafted is too much development for this area. I feel that it would be nice for one person to own it and keep it out of the hands of the McMansion developers. However, the magnitude and feel of the inn is not fitting with the town's flavor (one of horses, hunting and nature).

The problem is not with Mrs. Johnson, but most certainly her business strategists. They are interested in the bottom line, not preservation of the land. They probably have never been on the back of a horse ever, much less in the Middleburg area (the most heavenly place to ride cross country).

[SydneyS]

BTW, why can't Mrs. Johnson forego the idea of an inn and build the next site for the USEF, USEA or just a nice competition facility? Certainly she could get some nice write-offs from that?

[jetjocky]

That's the thing about the McVelopers: none of them are building affordable housing. Case in point: a piece sold near us and is under development. There was a perfectly reasonable little house on the property and what did they do? Took a bulldozer to it; can't have it messing up the view. People see $$$ and that's all they care about sometimes.

We have a big project going in near Winchester that would include 2800 new houses. The guy who's doing it lives in Clarke County, not Frederick. He'll build here but he won't live beside or anywhere near it.