PDA

View Full Version : ATTN: MD TB Race Trainers and Owners ** Back on TOPIC!!**



HaltAtX
May. 21, 2003, 01:44 PM
OK.

I just wanted to see a Poll on how much interest there would be in having a MARYLAND TB Rehab organization. I am seriously considering starting something up for Maryland tracks. There are so many tracks in MD and no place or help for our retirees. I love the breed and would be doing it solely for them. Before I even venture a business plan, I need to get an idea from our "home" tracks/trainers and owners of how in demand such an organization is. Personally, I think there is a high demand, I just want to see the backers. You can email me privately or post.

I have also heard the RERUN just got approved for a MD property... Does anyone know about that?

Allie is doing a WONDERFUL job with CANTER WV, but that is WV and it would be a lot to handle WV and MD...

I am thinking of combining what CANTER offers race trainers/owners (web space, promotion, guaranteed good homes) with actually reschooling these OTTB's and putting them up for a "type" of adoption, just to ensure or try to ensure they go to great homes.

This is very early in the thinking process and we all know this stuff takes great time...

But I would like to get an idea of the demand... I am hoping there are some MD/race trainers/owners that can pitch in an opinion http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks in advanced.

Also:

Is there anyone with similar ideas as me, Maybe we could form a grouphttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

[This message was edited by CallMyBluffFarms on May. 23, 2003 at 08:59 PM.]

HaltAtX
May. 21, 2003, 01:44 PM
OK.

I just wanted to see a Poll on how much interest there would be in having a MARYLAND TB Rehab organization. I am seriously considering starting something up for Maryland tracks. There are so many tracks in MD and no place or help for our retirees. I love the breed and would be doing it solely for them. Before I even venture a business plan, I need to get an idea from our "home" tracks/trainers and owners of how in demand such an organization is. Personally, I think there is a high demand, I just want to see the backers. You can email me privately or post.

I have also heard the RERUN just got approved for a MD property... Does anyone know about that?

Allie is doing a WONDERFUL job with CANTER WV, but that is WV and it would be a lot to handle WV and MD...

I am thinking of combining what CANTER offers race trainers/owners (web space, promotion, guaranteed good homes) with actually reschooling these OTTB's and putting them up for a "type" of adoption, just to ensure or try to ensure they go to great homes.

This is very early in the thinking process and we all know this stuff takes great time...

But I would like to get an idea of the demand... I am hoping there are some MD/race trainers/owners that can pitch in an opinion http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks in advanced.

Also:

Is there anyone with similar ideas as me, Maybe we could form a grouphttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

[This message was edited by CallMyBluffFarms on May. 23, 2003 at 08:59 PM.]

The Fjord Jockey
May. 21, 2003, 06:20 PM
You don't need a trainer to tell you that.

MD could definetly use something along that line. I can name 3 horses off of the top of my head who could use that organization.

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

FairWeather
May. 21, 2003, 07:32 PM
Long story short--
We'll be moving into the MD tracks as soon as we can. For now we catch all those horses that come out of MD tracks into CT.

Please read the other thread regarding CANTER's and why/how it is so difficult to start and run. There was good information in those posts earlier.

I understand what you are saying was supposed to be nice, but saying what I can and can not handle really isnt of any issue here.


__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

Cross_CanterHLTB
May. 21, 2003, 09:28 PM
I'm a long time lurker on this board and rarely post however, WOW!

Goodness Fairweather, retract those claws. All I can say is REEEEEEEEEOWWWWWWWWWW!

Why not be accepting of ANYONE who wishes to help racehorses, not just a chosen few? The more options the better it would seem and this seems like a decent idea.

HaltAtX
May. 21, 2003, 10:14 PM
Thanks everyone!

Keep the opinions coming.

Allie- In all sincerity it was a GOOD comment, meant that ANYONE trying to take over two fairly sized states for racing is just not reasonable or expected.


I have gotten great private responses too!

An Idea was brought up that I contact the founder of CANTER and RERUn, and instead of trying to rebuild my own program, to join forces with them and do the retraining/schooling for resale.

This seems like an awesome idea...

Any opinions? ideas?

A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

HaltAtX
May. 21, 2003, 10:22 PM
The point to join with CANTER, is also to become a FOSTER home for some of CANTERS/RERUNS TB's a place where they can get off the track, be let down., and then be reschooled...

Sorry I forgot that part!

A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

Two Toofs
May. 22, 2003, 04:35 AM
I don't see any claws, I see a natural response from someone who was being told (specifically) that they can't "handle" what is put in front of them. While it may not have been intended as a cut down, it did kind of seem like a backhanded jab at a specific individual (even if it is now known that it was unintentional or because of poor phrasing). And Allie is correct, what one individual can or cannot handle is not an issue at all, so why mention her specifically?

There is room for all different kinds of TB placement/rehab/rescue, WITHOUT publicly insinuating that another group can't "handle" their goals.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Why not be accepting of ANYONE who wishes to help racehorses, not just a chosen few? The more options the better it would seem and this seems like a decent idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A trainer near me had a horse that was sent to the Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation, with the HELP of CANTER. At our track, there are even TRF posters displayed side-by side with the CANTER materials. I don't think that sends a "chosen few" vibe, but one of working together with other organizations. They seem quite proud to display their cooperative goals.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Allie- In all sincerity it was a GOOD comment, meant that ANYONE trying to take over two fairly sized states for racing is just not reasonable or expected.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't CANTER operating in five or six states and adding more every year? I would say none are run by a single person, but groups of people working together.

And also in Allie's defense, it seems that there has been a lot of "Why isn't CANTER operating in XXXX?" on here lately and she is giving good advice here to refer to the other threads on the subject as they do detail a lot of the hows and whys of getting any organization of this type underway.

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

FairWeather
May. 22, 2003, 07:19 AM
Thanks Two Toofs --you put things more eloquently than I (whattya expect after all of this rain and MUD! yuck!!)

Every organization is always looking for more and more help...Why not volunteer to help out those organizations? I'd rather not get into it here, but when starting something like this, you need to be very clear cut in where you make your money. CMB, you say you stand a stallion and retrain and sell OTTBs--thats conflict of interest. If you'd like more information on this, i'd be happy to help.
A year or so back you offered to volunteer with CANTER WV, but I never did hear from you or actually see you step up and actually help.
Why not step up and help first--where it is needed, instead of starting from scratch?

As I said before, we do plan on moving into the Maryland tracks, its only a matter of time. For now, I dont see a killer truck making the rounds there every day. What I do see is a lot of people who wish we were in those tracks because it is convenient for them, not because of the great need and horses being shipped to auction. We tend to go where we are needed most, which in this area is Charles Town. IN fact, It would be great If I could do the MD tracks, as I live far closer to those tracks than the one in West Va.
I work with a LOT of people from Maryland--mainly because this Mid-Atlantic area is so close-nit, its hard to delineate "maryland" horses from "West Virginia" horses. Many times they are both.
When I set up the incorporation for WV, I did so with the expressed interest in covering the Maryland Tracks as well.

Again, please go read the threads about why there arent more CANTERs in other states. We arent a franchise like McDonalds, we are made up of VERY hard working, all-volunteer basis who spend upwards of 30 hours a week devoted to this. I know that CANTER Michigan's director has made this her FULL TIME *UNPAID* job, and Nancy from Ohio had devoted every moment of free time to this.

__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

[This message was edited by FairWeather on May. 22, 2003 at 10:16 AM.]

FairWeather
May. 22, 2003, 08:13 AM
Sorry, meant to address this:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I have also heard the RERUN just got approved for a MD property... Does anyone know about that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, ReRun has been given the reins to take over a farm run by Herb Moelis up in North East (or nearby) Maryland. Big news (and fabulous!) for ReRun.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The point to join with CANTER, is also to become a FOSTER home for some of CANTERS/RERUNS TB's a place where they can get off the track, be let down., and then be reschooled...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure either group would love for someone to foster horses. You'd just have to contact them (well, ReRun since we arent doing fosters yet)
Unfortunately, I dont think you can retrain them for liability reasons, but I could be wrong.

__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

NMS
May. 22, 2003, 09:01 AM
CallMyBluff, it's really pretty simple. If you want to make a profit then open a rehab/retraining business. If you do not want to make a profit then you should consider CANTER. But you cannot do both. Please check out the other topics Fairweather mentioned.

Nanc

www.canterohio.org (http://www.canterohio.org)

bkokoruda
May. 22, 2003, 09:08 AM
&gt; I just wanted to see a Poll on how much
&gt; interest there would be in having a MARYLAND &gt; TB Rehab organization.

Can you be more specific in your definition of rehab?

&gt; I am seriously considering starting something
&gt; up for Maryland tracks. There are so many
&gt; tracks in MD and no place or help for our
&gt; retirees. I love the breed and would be doing
&gt; it solely for them. Before I even venture a
&gt; business plan,

What is your motivation? You started by saying you are doing this for the breed then mention formulating a "business plan." These things do not go together.

Are you talking about starting a non-profit or are you talking about starting a for profit organization where you get the TBs from the track and retrain them to sell.

If the latter is the case then I would rethink your motives. Running a rescue is alot of hard work and rarely operates on anything more than financial fumes.

&gt; Allie is doing a WONDERFUL job with CANTER
&gt; WV, but that is WV and it would be a lot to
&gt; handle WV and MD...

Yes she is. From personal experience many of the Maryland trainers bring their horses to CT to race. So, this is where the most horses seem to be moving off to the slaughter from. CANTER will be moving to MD and that plan is already in the works, but addressing the immediate need is where the focus is right now.

&gt; I am thinking of combining what CANTER offers
&gt; race trainers/owners (web space, promotion,
&gt; guaranteed good homes) with actually
&gt; reschooling these OTTB's and putting them up
&gt; for a "type" of adoption, just to ensure or
&gt; try to ensure they go to great homes.

Again, I would wonder what your motive is. A 'type' of adoption is a pretty gray area, they are either adopted out for a small fee or they are sold. Are you 'adopting' them out with a contract and willing to take them back should things not work out? There are alot of factors to consider. You must be willing to be responsible for these animals for the remainder of their lives because as an 'adoption' or 'rescue' that is part of your obligation. If you are not willing to take on this responsibility, you may want to consider helping out one of the already established organizations.

Beth

Treat Wench
May. 22, 2003, 10:05 AM
I can't type much as i just had my elbow replaced on monday so for now i will just say that i stand behind Allie and Beth's replies 150 %.



"Horse sense is what a horse has that keeps him from betting on people"
W.C. Fields
1880 - 1948

[This message was edited by Treat Wench on May. 22, 2003 at 12:16 PM.]

HaltAtX
May. 22, 2003, 11:13 AM
I was basically Throwing out many different ideas. I want to do SOMETHING, and trying to sift through, what exactly.

No. I did not get a chance to volunteer with CANTER WV. But in all reality, THIS is what I am saying, I want to do the retraining/rehabbing/reschooling...THIS is my area and as far as I know CANTER does not do that.

Which is fine, which is why I came on this board to scope ideas.

I don't want to categorize it as a "nonprofit" because of different problems you run into with finances, but I don't want to make a fortune either.

My plan was to take the money that you receive from the first horse and put it right back into buying another horse off the track to retrain and reschool. So its really not a profit but its a cycle that allows me to get more horses off the track and into better homes.

All I was looking for was advice on how to contribute to saving OTTB's and combining my idea.

As for Allie: It was NEVER meant to be a derogatory comment toward you or canter WV, If I've said it once, then I have said it 1000 times, how WELL Canter WV is doing and how wonderful you are for leading the "troops" and making it what it is. I KNOW it is a group effort. But it takes a strong, diligent leader to make things work, and you do.

I don't understand why I am getting ripped for making what appeared to me to be a gratifying comment to you. NOONE should be expected to carry the world on their shoulders. This was my intent. NOT anything else.

And I don't see why me standing stallion and breeding WB's conflicts any with Retraining OTTB's.

And, yes I am fully responsible for taking them back, should things not work out. Which is why I am starting off small, as to not bite off more than I can chew... But any help makes a difference?

I think one should be welcomed when trying to put forth an effort to help an important cause.

As I stated... I haven't even begun to make the decision whether this is what I am going to do, and I was looking for advice. That's ALL.

I would like to help the TB community as, I devote my 13 years of riding to OTTB's their hearts their shenanigans and teaching me everything I know.

Again allie. there was not point or blame against you, I apologize if this is the way you foresought it.

A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

FairWeather
May. 22, 2003, 12:35 PM
CMB
Just to comment on your post...

was basically Throwing out many different ideas. I want to do SOMETHING, and trying to sift through, what exactly.

In sifting through, you tossed out a mixed salad of ideas and suggestions, we simply answered you in the best way we could.

No. I did not get a chance to volunteer with CANTER WV. But in all reality, THIS is what I am saying, I want to do the retraining/rehabbing/reschooling...THIS is my area and as far as I know CANTER does not do that.

OK, but you didnt state that before--you stated that you wanted to hook up or start a group for maryland. There is nothing in the world stopping you from doing this--anybody can go buy a horse from the track, retrain it, and sell it, whether it be for even money or a profit. In fact, that is what is responsible for many of the transitions off the track in the first place--any transitions off the track other than the slaughter house is a good one to me.

I don't want to categorize it as a "nonprofit" because of different problems you run into with finances, but I don't want to make a fortune either.

Ok, 'categorizing as non-profit' is *slightly* the wrong thing to say. Getting a non-profit status is VERY hard work--it takes a very long time, and many many man hours, not to mention heartache, headache and much banging of head against walls. People with 501 status are very proud of that status, and work hard to keep it. What problems do you run into with finances? But you dont want to make a fortune either--there was no qualifyer for this statement http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif. However, working as a Non-profit (in the eyes of the IRS), you cant make even a teeny tiny fortune.

My plan was to take the money that you receive from the first horse and put it right back into buying another horse off the track to retrain and reschool. So its really not a profit but its a cycle that allows me to get more horses off the track and into better homes. All I was looking for was advice on how to contribute to saving OTTB's and combining my idea.


Again, there is nothing stopping you from doing this, head up to a track with a trailer, buy a horse, retrain it, sell it and do over. I think the original problem is that your first post was so nebulous. Sometimes we get a little touchy over these types of posts because it comes off as so flippant...Like, oh...maybe i'll start a TRF branch, or maybe I'll start a CANTER in Nebraska. Its just simply not that easy. Not everyone has the time and ability to devote to starting an entire organization, but there is nothing stopping an individual from doing what they can to help the breed they love.

As for Allie: It was NEVER meant to be a derogatory comment toward you or canter WV, If I've said it once, then I have said it 1000 times, how WELL Canter WV is doing and how wonderful you are for leading the "troops" and making it what it is. I KNOW it is a group effort. But it takes a strong, diligent leader to make things work, and you do.


I understand that, however I just dont think my name should have been brought up at all, paired with the phrase "cant handle".

And I don't see why me standing stallion and breeding WB's conflicts any with Retraining OTTB's.
If you'd like i'll answer this, however I'd rather do it privately. If you'd like more clarification please email myself or any other CANTER rep.

And, yes I am fully responsible for taking them back, should things not work out. Which is why I am starting off small, as to not bite off more than I can chew... But any help makes a difference?

CMB, I think you need to organize your thoughts a little more clearly--they are all over the board here. You are asking for advice, then opinions, then starting a chapter, then emailing CANTER and ReRun, then starting off small. Its very confusing to even reply to your posts when you switch up like this and put in statements after the fact.

I think one should be welcomed when trying to put forth an effort to help an important cause. I would like to help the TB community as, I devote my 13 years of riding to OTTB's their hearts their shenanigans and teaching me everything I know.

I know your cause is noble--but again, be a little more clear-cut and less flippant about things like this. Saying that Maryland could "use" a program--on what do you base that statement? What evidence do you have to back it up? And again, what type of program do you mean?

You said you want to start small. Why not volunteer and see what doing this *for real* is all about? Its about devoting time to do things that arent always the fun part. Its about getting out there every saturday morning and helping horses where they need it--At the track. Its helping buyers find a perfect horse for them, to ensure them a fabulous future. Its not all about the fun stuff--Of COURSE we'd all love to play and retrain OTTB's and find them new homes, but we leave that fun stuff for people who can do it, and we do the hard grunt work.

Just my thoughts and opinion since you asked http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

[This message was edited by FairWeather on May. 22, 2003 at 04:51 PM.]

bkokoruda
May. 22, 2003, 12:39 PM
&gt; I want to do SOMETHING, and trying to sift through, what exactly.

That is excellent and a great motivation.

&gt; No. I did not get a chance to volunteer with CANTER WV. But in all reality, THIS is what I am saying, I want to do the retraining/rehabbing/reschooling...THIS is my area and as far as I know CANTER does not do that.

Excellent, so you have defined where you want to fit into the process. No CANTER does not do that, you are correct.

&gt; I don't want to categorize it as a "nonprofit" because of different problems you run into with finances, but I don't want to make a fortune either.

Very true, a true "nonprofit" is just that non-profit, so now that you have defined your motivations you are one step closer to making a difference. To that end, starting a rescue would not be the best avenue for you to make a difference. I am not trying to be difficult, but many people start rescues with the greatest intensions of helping out and when the work proves to be to much they can no longer maintain the rescue and close, leaving those animals in their care once again looking for a safe haven.

&gt; My plan was to take the money that you receive from the first horse and put it right back into buying another horse off the track to retrain and reschool. So its really not a profit but its a cycle that allows me to get more horses off the track and into better homes.

&gt; All I was looking for was advice on how to contribute to saving OTTB's and combining my idea.

Excellent plan and with that in mind it sounds like you have already figured out your niche. That avenue is already available to you as there are TB's posted on the CANTER sites waiting for non-racing homes.

&gt; As for Allie: It was NEVER meant to be a derogatory comment toward you or canter WV, If I've said it once, then I have said it 1000 times, how WELL Canter WV is doing and how wonderful you are for leading the "troops" and making it what it is. I KNOW it is a group effort. But it takes a strong, diligent leader to make things work, and you do.

I don't mean to harp, but your sentences contradict themselves here. You praise Allie for her work, then say "But it takes a strong, diligent leader to make things work, and you do." What does that mean?

&gt; I don't understand why I am getting ripped for making what appeared to me to be a gratifying comment to you. NOONE should be expected to carry the world on their shoulders. This was my intent. NOT anything else.

Understood, and I don't think anyone is "ripping" on you, but as you get older you will learn that choosing your words very carefully is a must when discussing something that people put many long hard hours into and feel so passionately about - that's all.

&gt; And I don't see why me standing stallion and breeding WB's conflicts any with Retraining OTTB's.

Well, breeding and rescue have historically been conflicting issues. On one hand you are breeding to produce more animals, but on the other, why produce more animals when there are so many going to slaughter or being put down for a lack of places to put them.

&gt; And, yes I am fully responsible for taking them back, should things not work out. Which is why I am starting off small, as to not bite off more than I can chew... But any help makes a difference?

True, but people with the best intentions of helping have historically found themselves in over their heads. I am much older than you with many more years of horse experience. I have two rescues, two OTTB, and my retired eventing horse. Could I run a rescue? NO. There is to much that goes into that I don't know and would still need many more years experience to competently run a rescue.

&gt; I think one should be welcomed when trying to put forth an effort to help an important cause.

Yes and you are welcome, but no one wants to see you get in over your head when there are well established rescues that could use a dedicated horse person like yourself.

Beth

bkokoruda
May. 22, 2003, 12:45 PM
ATTN: Treat Wench

Did they actually replace the elbow or did they just throw a hook on there? LOL

Hope you are feeling better. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Treat Wench
May. 22, 2003, 02:04 PM
BK whole new elbow...had a riding accident last week on Brick...ouchy!
Be glad they didn't give me a hook, imagine the trouble i'd get into!!! I'm bad enough with arms!!!


"Horse sense is what a horse has that keeps him from betting on people"
W.C. Fields
1880 - 1948

Showpony
May. 22, 2003, 02:07 PM
Any plan to rehab racehorses and place them in good homes is a great idea.

What I wonder about doing it at the MD tracks is that the horses are more expensive. Instead of selling them cheap as riding horses they sell them or send them to smaller tracks. From there they are sold cheaper as riding horses when they can't make money at the smaller tracks.

You will be paying more money unless they are injured and can't run anymore or you get very lucky and find an owner willing to sell a sound raceable horse very cheap as a riding horse instead of sending it down the ladder, just to get it a good home.

I don't know if that makes sense, and I hope I didn't offend anyone, I didn't mean too! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The person I worked for bought horses from the cheaper tracks in the mid west, the got some great horses for next to nothing. They said the tracks around here the horses were to expensive to make a quick profit on, or in your case enough money to cover costs AND buy another one.

People do what you are talking about everyday without calling themselves a rescue. It doesn't have to be formalized.

~*Adult Pony Rider Clique*~

FairWeather
May. 22, 2003, 02:15 PM
People keep tossing around "rehab" --which, to me, is totally different than what retraining would be. Rehab is fixing injuries, ailments...N'est pas?

__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

horsepowerco
May. 22, 2003, 02:42 PM
WHAO!!!! First off congrats for trying to make a difference. 2) no one group or organization can do it all...I don't care who they are. 3) we have had this discussion many times about what and who can do what and where before on here...ENOUGH already! Callmybluff is just trying to see if there is a need...not take a beating in the mean time. Yes I agree Allie, there is nothing stopping her from taking a truck and trailer and a check book and go shopping...I do it all of the time. Maybe there was a bit too much information offered before all was thought out. Maybe we have a few people playing too much defense and not enough offense. The point is someone else is trying to help. CMB Welcome to the club. As for the rehab/reschool debate...you do whatever the horse needs...if its rehab...so be it. If hes ready for re schooling so be it. Truth be known...you're going to have to do a bit of both in the long run. If these horses were perfect they would still be running. Good Luck, keep you chin up and hollar if you ever need help. Ciao!

To love a Thoroughbred is to truely live and enjoy life.

FairWeather
May. 22, 2003, 02:45 PM
The truth of the matter is that nobody is jumping on anyone--why does everybody keep saying that?
Did I miss something? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
and as a personal note, can we all stop throwing my personal name around ? Please? thank you http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

Cross_CanterHLTB
May. 22, 2003, 03:11 PM
It just seems, Fairweather, that you are very defensive and that is probably why you preceive your name being thrown around. I don't think any one is throwing your name around, they're are just responding... which is no different than what you are doing, correct?

CMBF, I do the very thing you are proposing. I don't make a lot of money but the satisfaction of helping these horses transition into new careers is very satisfying.

Good luck to you!

milk warts
May. 22, 2003, 04:06 PM
CMBF- ditto to what Fairweather and others said. There is much greater need at the smaller, "last-stop" tracks in places like CW. I picked up a CANTER horse in Michigan several years ago for $1700- he was running $5k claiming races with purses that were even smaller. Somehow I don't believe they run $5k claiming races at Pimlico...

Plus, what are you going to do once you get them off the track, have no coach, and despite your vast experience with world-class trainers, can't get them to bend their necks?

[This message was edited by milk warts on May. 22, 2003 at 07:59 PM.]

Two Toofs
May. 22, 2003, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cross_Canter:
It just seems, Fairweather, that you are very defensive and that is probably why you preceive your name being thrown around. I don't think any one is throwing your name around, they're are just responding... which is no different than what you are doing, correct?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-Allie is doing a WONDERFUL job with CANTER WV, but that is WV and it would be a lot to handle WV and MD...

-Goodness Fairweather, retract those claws. All I can say is REEEEEEEEEOWWWWWWWWWW!

-Allie- In all sincerity it was a GOOD comment, meant that ANYONE trying to take over two fairly sized states for racing is just not reasonable or expected.

-And Allie is correct, what one individual can or cannot handle is not an issue at all, so why mention her specifically?

-And also in Allie's defense, it seems that....

-Please check out the other topics Fairweather mentioned.

-now i will just say that i stand behind Allie and Beth's replies 150 %.

-As for Allie: It was NEVER meant to be a derogatory comment toward you or canter WV...

-Again allie. there was not point or blame against you....

-Yes I agree Allie, there is nothing stopping her from taking a truck and trailer....



I'd say being mentioned 10 times in a thread with 21 posts that she didn't start doesn't make for one being 'defensive' when being asked to be taken out of the 'limelight' of a conversation that really doesn't have anything to do with an individual, but with an issue.


I also find it interesting from viewing your profile and clicking on the posts attributed to it, that your "handle" of "Cross Canter" (Cross CANTER?) is only seen in posts that are involving the CANTER organization, here to tell one director to retract claws (after not showing a post in almost eight months), and in the other eight months ago to say that another director didn't contact you. Also interesting about your other post is that you were apparently making contact from NY about a pasture puff from Ohio, but claim here that you do what CallMyBluff is proposing - taking and retraining horses off the track. For a long time lurker, you'd think there would be tons of other interests mentioned on all of these forums that you might comment on, but seem to save them for attempting to point out negatives about CANTER. Could be wrong but the profile just smacks of "alter".

Just sayin'.

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

doublete
May. 22, 2003, 08:19 PM
Woo hoo.. Another bonafide debate (and I'm not the focus for once!!!).
Anyways, the reason that Fairweather was mentioned specifically is because everyone has seen her on this board, everyone 'relates' to what she does and it is easier to say "Allie does such and such" rather than "the CANTER ORG does such and such"... I think its more personalized and a lot more complimentary. IMO it shouldn't be reacted to harshly. Which I did read the first reply from the above mentioned poster as being harsh and over defensive. The next replies weren't... But at that point CallMyBluff had already gotten a bad taste in their mouth.
Okie dokie then...
So NOW... I think what CANTER, Rerun, and the TRF does is entirely a wonderful thing. But, as has been stated before, there is ONLY SO MUCH that they can do as a collective group. A friend of mine that was involved in TRF left the organization (through retirement) and feels that some things were amiss- Lord Helpus you met him, and I bet you have some good advice for this poster as well..
I think this is why CMB doesn't want to be a non-profit: (yes it is hard to do, but still, why go through the process if you know in the end you won't be happy? which is why it was stated so 'flippantly'). Nonprofits cannot make money, obviously, but in the horse world it is hard to get by on just donations and 'adoption fees'. I know what I have invested in my horses and what I'm asking for them is way over the CANTER adoption prices, I've had them since November and I'm not even going to break even as it is. Also, being a nonprofit, you wouldn't really be able to be picky about which horses you take on- and it sounds as though CMB wants to be able to take sound, full of potential horses on to retrain. So, there is a very legit reason for 'not wanting to be a nonprofit' was thrown out there.

CMB- Im getting off my soap box and goingto give my own advice. I am young, just 20, and I'm learning. But, don't bite off more than you can chew. I think you were formulating ideas and hoping to get some feedback on here (which really is hard, because people do take offense to it, if they are older and wiser they don't think about us youngun's trying to make our way- not to say you're too young, and not trying to dig myself a hole here!). So here's my feedback: If I were you, I wouldn't limit myself to just MD tracks, unless you already have contacts there. If you hook up with a decent breeding/race stable they will alwasy call you when they have a horse moving on and it might work out better. But like someone else said, I think that most MD horses (unless they are comletely broken down) move on to smaller, less competitive tracks, and that is where they need to be picked up off of. Maybe scoot on over to a race farm and speak with them- let them know what your'e looking for. Start with one horse, retrain that one, find out how much (approx) it will cost, and sell it, use that money to buy another (or two). But, your original cost that you put out will probably never be returned to you, you will always roll over that money and guaranteed you will lose money. If you can get a good working relationship with some trainers (performance/sport) in your area, then you'll have an outlet to sell the horses when they're ready. Having a policy tha tyou'll take them back in is alwasy good- maybe helpful. (In this case it will be nice that you have had an opportunity to be selective on your horses, as you 'll know their capability and know that if it doesn't work out with one owner you will be able to 'fix' whatever went wrong and move it on to another home).
Anyways, the most important thing is to not take on more than you're financially able to. My father (my backer) did this- he bought too many off the track, took on two 'rescues', really did too much. And now he's struggling to pay for the bills (he's doing it, but not without moaning and groaning http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. To keep him happy I had to get involved in the racing aspect though- we now own two racehorses (with one on the way), however what is good for me is that they've already got some retraining from my riding and working with them, and when they look like they've had it, I can find them excellent new homes. But, I'd rather not have gotten into the racing, had to keep my father happy though. We have two OTTB's that I have done what you are suggesting, I had to rehab one (put a ton of weight on, work with an allergic reaction he'd had to the chemicals on the track, etc) and retrain both. We are losing money as we speak. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif But, the one that I sold in January is doing well with his new owner (a 12 y/o) and I'm just ecstatic to see it! That is why I keep going like this- you'll find when you make your first sale it makes it ALL worth it.
We have gotten one mare that was completely broken down and really had no future, the trainer called us and we went to pick her up- had no intention for breeding, but now have her leased out to breed to a very nice race stallion. (IN this case, you breeding WBs will be very helpful, you can take on those mares that are very nice, but maybe have a bad knee, etc). We helped get one other mare off the track to a new home where she is booked to a WB stallion. We helped yet another move on to a good home.
Once you start getting a name with the trainers, by just buying your first one, you'll find more than you can handle. No matter where you are, the organizations involved can only do so much, and some will always slip through the cracks (or the trainers will know they'll get a sure fire 'yes' from you and will just call you automatically).
I highly suggest starting with just one, this will allow you to establish a baseline, and then you won't be working out of your own pocket for so long, once that one is sold you can roll the money over to pay for the next one's bills and purchase price. The only way to get by is to pay as little as possible for the best horse you can find. (not that you should talk the trainer's down too much, but also think of it this way- if the trainer is looking to get say $6,000 you know darn well that horse isn't in danger http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif other than being overraced, but that is an entirely different can of worms) there is nothing wrong with paying that much for a horse, but in your case as well as mine, it doesn't work.

Ok, I have this feeling that some of this didn't make sense, but I tried to make it coherent. Hopefully some of the advice makes sense. Anythign you can do to help move these horses on to a new life will be wonderful. Best of luck in your endeavours, and there are many people that would love to help you if you run into something. You have very good intentions, and even if it doesnt work out for whatever reason, at least you have the best at heart- the needs of the horses!!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Milk Warts- I'm assuming here, but not sure, that CMB does know how to retrain the TB's, and won't end up in the situation you suggest. Most of it is common horse sense anyways (IMO).

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.

Cross_CanterHLTB
May. 22, 2003, 09:05 PM
Oh my. You see, this is why I am a lurker. Two Toofs, I had written out a long reply to your post but I just don't see the point in a long response or an argument. I am who I am and that is an old farm girl (I am 47) trying to train horses, horses that I love and am passionate about. I know nothing about alters or being an alter. Yes, I inquired about a horse in Ohio. Why is that wrong? I don't believe I insinuated anything bad about any directors, groups, or the like at all. I responded to the canter posts because canter is, in a way, a rescue and that's what I'm interested in. My name, let me assure you, has nothing to do with any group or organization. It's the same name I've used for many years when posting on internet chat boards. Anyway, I suppose I could post in threads about the TRF, but I didn't have anything to contribute. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

It was just my thought that Fairweather was a tad defensive. As you pointed out, most of the time her name was mentioned, it was in a good light and it just seemed that it should be taken as a good thing.

Now it should be obvious why I am a lurker. CMBF, good luck in whatever you decide to do. The rewards are monetarily small but they do wonders for the soul.

FairWeather
May. 23, 2003, 06:11 AM
I mean CAN YOU ALL STOP USING MY PERSONAL NAME??

I dont sign my posts with my personal name, And I dont address any of YOU by your personal name.

I happen to KNOW CMB's name, because we've corresponded at LENGTH in the past, but I still dont use it on this board.

And Cross-Canter, whoever you are...(didnt your 'from' say Ohio yesterday??) i'm not being defensive in any way. Read for comprehension--I've only answered questions, asked VIABLE questions (yet to be answered) and given opinions.

[This message was edited by FairWeather on May. 23, 2003 at 10:34 AM.]

horsepowerco
May. 23, 2003, 06:12 AM
Fairweather....I think the only time your name gets thrown around is when you come off with a chip on your shoulder. You seem to be a very knowledgable horseperson, with a lot of time and effort invested in you involvment with CANTER. Everytime someone even mentions their intentions about getting involved with OTTB's you jump all over them. CMB is at least trying to help with the solution and not just sit back waiting for someone else to do it. The MD area I'm sure has a great need for such a program. I know shes is a small farm, much like my own. She will not be able to help them all...but one of two is better then ZERO! Agreed? I'm really trying hard to be nice here...but enough is enough already. I know "Name Witheld" does her part with CANTER, I do my part with Horsepower Company and others do their part...we need to work together to make this work at all. No matter how you go about your business we are all looking for the same outcome.

To love a Thoroughbred is to truely live and enjoy life.

FairWeather
May. 23, 2003, 06:26 AM
OH
My
Goodness.

Can any of you READ? Did any of you read my posts?

Why do you think MD needs a program? Where do you think they all end up when they cant run for a $10,000 tag? They end up at Charles Town! I see it every single week.

Where did it say that I didnt think this girl should actively try to help out?

Chip on my shoulder or not, you are reading an internet bulletin board.

Where do I 'Jump all over them'? Was it the part that I suggest she help out where its needed? Was it the part that I said I needed help and she should come volunteer (since she lives 25 minutes from CT??) Was it the part that said to contact any of the groups for fostering?

This post by Cross-Canter set this ALL off the wrong way. there were no claws...But you all see fit to run away with it, because, claws are more fun than no-claws.

Do you know How many times i've had people come to me with 'GRAND' ideas, "i'm gunna help you out, i've got an idea for you, I 'know' people' etc..."
I've learned the hard way that people are just full of it. Those who can, do...those who cant, waste my time. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

Evalee Hunter
May. 23, 2003, 06:43 AM
I have to confess I'm puzzled: why do you object to people using your name? It's only your first name & a reasonably common one at that. (My first name is so uncommon I have never met another person with the same name & I put my name with every post.) I personally think everyone on this board should be required to use their whole name (first & last) but that is just my opinion & I know the majority don't agree with me.

I use my name because I have the courage of my convictions--if I don't want what I say (popular or not) associated with my name I don't say it. If I believe in what I say then I say it publicly with my name & the city & state where I live going along with my post. I also have my email address available to all. (& I also think everyone on this board should be required to make that information public, also, although, again, I know the majority don't agree with me.)

I do know you have a temper because I have received what I considered a rather vicious email from you which I promptly deleted. Perhaps you are working too hard.

www.rougelandfarm.com (http://www.rougelandfarm.com) Home of TB stallion Alae Rouge, sire of our filly Rose, ribbon-winner on the line at Dressage at Devon.

Lisamarie8
May. 23, 2003, 06:45 AM
Fairweather!

I can help you by making you mimosas and lovin ya like crazy http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And then I can waste your time by forcing you to come and find me over-indulged in a corn field http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

As for the rest of you loony-loonies http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I suggest some narcotics or simply a beer. FW, actually has PRACTICAL experience in what CMBF is talking about. She gave her advice, she gave her guidance, and Y’ALL gave her a headache.

And to be perfectly honest if FW HAD decided to expose claws and get bishy, I'm not sure she wouldn't have been exempt from feeling a little irritation. CMBF post rubbed me a little the wrong way and i have NOTHING to do with CANTER. However, I have read other posts by her and with only the background I have on her, it made me roll my eyes a bit...and not because what she proposes isn't a good idea.

Kum-ba-fricking-ya y'all. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

--- And how did you feel about being denied these Hungry Hippos?

Lisamarie8
May. 23, 2003, 06:48 AM
Evalee,

Step off, cranky Woman. I'd hazard a guess that if FW sent you an e-mail it was neither vicious or stems from over work. I'd imagine it came as a response to one of your cranky unrealistically judgmental posts. Your post has nothing to do with this topic; you're just stepping in and being bishy. I suggest you go take a nap.

--- And how did you feel about being denied these Hungry Hippos?

FairWeather
May. 23, 2003, 07:03 AM
Evalee--
I have no idea what your post is supposed to mean.
So i'd like for people to refer to me by my COTH name--So people can figure out who is being talked about here. Who cares!?
Everyone knows not only my first and last name, but my phone number and home address if you looked on the CANTER site. I really dont care about that, I'd just prefer my handle be used on this board--otherwise I'd go by my first name!
Easy enough?
And as for a temper--thats just funny. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif
You privately emailed me and I privately emailed you back. If you didnt like what was said, sorry! But it was my opinion. And why go dragging this up?

Now, I must go enroll in Anger management class after I finish kicking these puppies and finding someone to help me carry this large chip on my shoulder...LOLOLOLOLOLOL
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif


Sidenote to add--I have that "viscious" email sitting right here, including my response. Shall I post how nasty I am?
LMAO!!!
__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

[This message was edited by FairWeather on May. 23, 2003 at 09:14 AM.]

bkokoruda
May. 23, 2003, 07:06 AM
Attn: lisamarie8

"And then I can waste your time by forcing you to come and find me over-indulged in a corn field"

or in the members tent at Rolex... LOL

Lisamarie8
May. 23, 2003, 07:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bkokoruda:
Attn: lisamarie8

"And then I can waste your time by forcing you to come and find me over-indulged in a corn field"

or in the members tent at Rolex... LOL<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or sobbing in the backseat of a Neon like an unstable freakazoid http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

BK!

When I realized it was you yesterday, I started to write you apost, but a stupid client called! Damn work gets in the way AGAIN!

I found the little butterfly earings day before yesterday and wore them while I fed the horses...made me smile http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And FW! I'll drive you to that anger management class. I mean really, you're just getting out of hand, and I don't trust you to not go all road rage and pull some poor dog out or a car on the Beltway. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

--- And how did you feel about being denied these Hungry Hippos?

Robby Johnson
May. 23, 2003, 07:21 AM
I can only say that of all the people I know, Fairweather is the farthest thing from vicious. And I know some pretty vicious people.

Fairweather is all about the love. She's all about the compassion and all about the horses. She is a stellar horsewoman and harbors no ill-regard to anyone. Plus, she would give you the shirt off her back.

Please don't make this more than it is.

Robby

I'm drinking a soy latte
I get a double shote'
It goes right through my body
And you know I'm satisfied

NMS
May. 23, 2003, 07:27 AM
Good grief! This post has gotten WILD. All Fairweather asked was not to be addressed by name, so as to take the personalization out of the responses. That seems fair.

I know from experience how difficult it is to run a volunteer organization. People promise to do things, and then it "rains" or "I didn't wake up today" or my personal favorite "I changed my mind" and you're left dropping whatever you're doing (I've even left events) to try and pick up the pieces.

There are times when I get tired of hearing what people are "going to do" when the core group of people are out there "doing it" every day.

So to those of you who are out there actually mucking, wrapping, hauling, and hosing, kudos to you. You all know what it takes to make a difference.

Nancy

www.canterohio.org (http://www.canterohio.org)

[This message was edited by NMS on May. 23, 2003 at 09:39 AM.]

bkokoruda
May. 23, 2003, 07:40 AM
lisamarie8, yep its me http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Or sobbing in the backseat of a Neon like an unstable freakazoid" This is to funny... Ah yes, I remember it well http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Glad you found your earings, can't wait until next year, the Makers Mark is on me, but hopefully not literally... LOL VBG...

Erin
May. 23, 2003, 08:26 AM
Hey, can EVERYONE take a chill pill, please? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Please remember that you're reading words on a screen and very well may be misinterpreting what someone meant, or reading something into their words that isn't really there. Please don't go jumping to conclusions.

Now everyone just take a deep breath and calm down, and maybe try talking about the issue at hand, rather than the individuals involved, eh?

Thank you. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

horsepowerco
May. 23, 2003, 08:58 AM
Nancy were you at the Winona Horse trials last weekend? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

To love a Thoroughbred is to truely live and enjoy life.

Moesha
May. 23, 2003, 09:23 AM
I have known Allie for a long time and am honored to have such an amazing person as my friend. The dedication and the commitment she has to the horses in CANTER and to horses and people in general is almost breath stopping in moving and feeling. Allie has always had an open door for volunteeers and help of any kind for WV CANTER, and has always been willing to listen to new ideas and to do WHATEVER is best for the horses and the program. Of course she has to maintain certain standards and certain ideals that CANTER is based on. First of all for consistencey and most importantly for follwoing the guidelines for the unique non-profit status that CANTER has been granted. I am sure that everyone here has the best of intentions. We all love horses, they are part of our souls and who we are. Anyone who is truly a horse person, knows that being around horses is more than a lifestyle it the air we breath and the stirring in our souls that nothing but a horses heart can give us. Allie embodies all of the qulities of a great horse person. She has the biggest heart and is so selfless and ready to give up anything for herself if it means doing one small thing to help a horse. And the fact is she does great things on a daily basis.

[This message was edited by Moesha on May. 23, 2003 at 11:46 AM.]

FairWeather
May. 23, 2003, 09:33 AM
You all are SWEET!

Alas, my reign of terror was short lived http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
(although I couldnt exactly FIND the terror, despite repeated readings!)

hmmm...still debating on whether to post my 'vicious' email http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

And because havent taken my 'spelling pill' this morning:

[This message was edited by FairWeather on May. 23, 2003 at 11:48 AM.]

Moesha
May. 23, 2003, 09:51 AM
There are many different ways to "help" the surplus of TB's off the track. But you have to work with the excellent organizations that already exist out of courtesy and professionalism and cannot try to combine the benefits of a nonprofit group with any sort of financial or business like gain or operation.

If you want to do nonprofit work and business re-schooling and training great..but both lines have to be clearly drawn and books/money/etc. must be accurately reflected and separate.

I think it is admirable and brave to want to partake in a venture like this..but it might be easier to really look at what you want to do and can do and go from there as far as what type of organization you are. If it where easy to channel all of the organizations benefits and advantages and programs together, then it would be great. Sadly each organization is under certain guideliens and regulations and above all ideals and merits...which beyond any legal terms cannot be compromised under any conditions.

When I see the overhwlming respect and sought after reputation of CANTER I know how important image with substance can be.

milk warts
May. 23, 2003, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by doublete:

Milk Warts- I'm assuming here, but not sure, that CMB does know how to retrain the TB's, and won't end up in the situation you suggest. Most of it is common horse sense anyways (IMO).

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? You may want to go take a gander at a recent thread on the dressage forum...

doublete
May. 23, 2003, 10:03 AM
I'm terrible afraid to say that through all of this defending/accusing etc of Fairweather we have probably scared off the original poster.
May I suggest that IN THE FUTURE, we try to hold posts to what is helpful. (I think my rather long and perhaps incomprehendable was exactly that)
But clearly the last page of posts (except for Moesha's last post) was not helping the poster at all. It did not give any input or advice. It simply attacked what may have been a good idea in the making. There is no way to tell whose ideas are good or not on an internet board, we have to have the faith in PEOPLE that it is a good idea, and treat it as such. Now, many people are cynical (which they very well should be), but rather than treat any 'thrown out there idea' as one that won't go anywhere, try to have a little faith.

Now that my post has nothing to do with the original poster I will try to save it- CMB don't worry about this kind of thing. Everyone likes to get up in arms once in a while. it lets off much needed steam or it just is entertaining. Continue to go as you were- good luck.

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.

Pixie Dust
May. 23, 2003, 10:35 AM
Hrmmmmmmmm....now why should FW have to explain why she doesn't want her name thrown around anymore? She asked people to stop; end of story.

The original poster asked for some brainstorming and that's exactly what FW gave. Why not listen to someone who knows what they are talking about? Why the constant "reading between the lines"....why can't someone just be concise, without being accused of having a chip.http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

BTW, the reason so many DO know her name is because of her generosity, over and over again.

I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf

Pixie Dust
May. 23, 2003, 10:39 AM
From what I have read....maybe *I* am reading betweent the lines, but it sounds like CMBF wants to start a re-sale business. The BB is a great place to get started with advice & ideas to make it work.

doublete
May. 23, 2003, 10:39 AM
bgoose- Agreed, however I dont think that FW is the ONLY one on the board that knows what they are talking about. There are many people that are involved in the TB world on a smaller scale, and I suspect that responded through private topics on the off chance that they would have their messages 'read into'. That's the thing with the internet... You can post in the best of intentions but one word has two different connotations and someone will take it one way, another will take it the other way.
Oh well.

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.

Moesha
May. 23, 2003, 11:17 AM
I think it is wonderful as I pointed out that she should get involved, I also felt that in my posts I was merely pointing out the great work Allie does and her personal commitment..so regardless of how the thread was turning..that important fact would remain clear...I also wanted to maintain the important issue that the original posters intenet was so admirable.

I think the way that the references to CANTER were used were of legitimate concern to Allie.

I also think many people offered advice since it appears that several different purposes or intents were coming together and some could not be reconciled like running a re-sale business as a rescue and a non-profit...it would take a lot of creative juggling to have all of that under one roof and even then it might not be legally possible. Also whenever groups that do have special status and rely on reputation and hard work are discussed in a light which might shed question on them in any way...it will cause those involved to feel the need to defend what they perceive as misinformation or conflciting statements.

No one would ever attack the honorable and amazing ideas that this thread was started on...I think that it was some of the ideas that caused people to pause and react.

I would hope no one would be intimidated and "Scared" away..that would be a great loss....since the ideas were so legitimate.

DMK
May. 23, 2003, 11:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evalee Hunter:
I have to confess I'm puzzled: why do you object to people using your name? It's only your first name & a reasonably common one at that. (My first name is so uncommon I have never met another person with the same name & I put my name with every post.) I personally think everyone on this board should be required to use their whole name (first & last) but that is just my opinion & I know the majority don't agree with me.

I use my name because I have the courage of my convictions--if I don't want what I say (popular or not) associated with my name I don't say it. If I believe in what I say then I say it publicly with my name & the city & state where I live going along with my post. I also have my email address available to all. (& I also think everyone on this board should be required to make that information public, also, although, again, I know the majority don't agree with me.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Evalee, I can't speak for FW, and what you prefer to do with your name is your right. However others may prefer to maintain a degree of privacy that extends to their first names, common or otherwise. It might have something to do with the fact that its not just the 5, 50 or 500 people that post on the BB or any one thread. It's a big world wide web out there and it attracts way more than its fair share of whack jobs.

In other words it may not have anything to do with the courage of one's convictions.

remain.com

Evalee Hunter
May. 23, 2003, 11:51 AM
You are letting the "whack jobs" that you perceive to be out there win. If you are the victim of a crime & you spend the rest of your life hiding in your house, who wins? Not you. The criminal won. I am well aware of the supposed reasons for screen names, not posting locations, etc. It doesn't change that fact that it promotes dishonesty & brings everyone using a screen name down to the lowest denominator which I find very sad.

I have had the displeasure to meet a few "whack jobs" in person over my lifetime--scared the living daylights out of me. So far I have NOT met any over the internet in spite of quite a few years of internet use.

It strikes me as immensely weird that someone would demand to be referred to as "FairWeather" which is a whole lot more key strokes than her name which is a mere 5 keystrokes.

FW if you want to post the email, go ahead. Perhaps when I read it a second time I will decide you are correct & it was not written in an angry tone.

www.rougelandfarm.com (http://www.rougelandfarm.com) Home of TB stallion Alae Rouge, sire of our filly Rose, ribbon-winner on the line at Dressage at Devon.

bkokoruda
May. 23, 2003, 12:15 PM
Oh my lord have mercy Evalee Hunter, are you kidding me with this dissertation on absolutely nothing relevant to this conversation?

&gt; You are letting the "whack jobs" that you perceive to be out there win. If you are the victim of a crime & you spend the rest of your life hiding in your house, who wins? Not you. The criminal won. I am well aware of the supposed reasons for screen names, not posting locations, etc. It doesn't change that fact that it promotes dishonesty & brings everyone using a screen name down to the lowest denominator which I find very sad.

Please just drop it, she asked you to use FW, so respect her wishes, don't argue with her for crying out loud. It is her right to be address in a manner she see fit, that's it, no hidden motive or meaning.

&gt; It strikes me as immensely weird that someone would demand to be referred to as "FairWeather" which is a whole lot more key strokes than her name which is a mere 5 keystrokes.

If FairWeather is to much for you to handle just use FW, two keystrokes.

&gt; FW if you want to post the email, go ahead. Perhaps when I read it a second time I will decide you are correct & it was not written in an angry tone.

Does it matter?

DMK
May. 23, 2003, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evalee Hunter:
You are letting the "whack jobs" that you perceive to be out there win. If you are the victim of a crime & you spend the rest of your life hiding in your house, who wins? Not you. The criminal won. I am well aware of the supposed reasons for screen names, not posting locations, etc. It doesn't change that fact that it promotes dishonesty & brings everyone using a screen name down to the lowest denominator which I find very sad.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Somehow I think there is a giant logic chasm between simple prudence and declaring that the criminal type has won the day because I won't use my name and post where I live on an internet BB. Honestly, that is on par with not walking home with a buddy late night on a college campus because we might just declare that the potential rapists have won.

And I find that dishonest people are pretty much dishonest in general, whether I know them by name or not. It's not like these traits are strictly limited to those people on the internet who choose not to identify themselves.

bk - FYI, Evalee was responding specifically to my inquiry, so it might not have been exactly on point, but it wasn't out of the blue.

remain.com

FairWeather
May. 23, 2003, 12:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by doublete:
bgoose- Agreed, however I dont think that FW is the ONLY one on the board that knows what they are talking about. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty darn sure I didnt say that I was the only one who knew what I was talking about. All I did was offer some information.
This maelstrom has gotten so darn interesting. I've been called vicious, told I have a chip on my shoulder, and told to retract claws, yet nobody has been able to point out anything that i've written that was so bad.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It simply attacked what may have been a good idea in the making.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Please point this out to me. Where is it?

So, I get persecuted for not replying in a PT and consequently have people "READ INTO" my post? Havent you just done that with my posts?

DMK--Thanks! If someone wanted to know my name, its right there at the bottom of every post in my links. I dont think someone could say that i'm 'hiding'. My personal feeling is that when you take someone's personal name, when they use a 'handle' on a bulletin board, it makes it about the person, not the issue--Its just a little *too* personal for my liking.

Evalee, You are the only one out there using your full name. Sounds like you are in the minority. Does that mean that everybody else on this board is *hiding* behind a screen name? As I said before to you on a previous thread (the one which prompted your email to me) GIMME A BREAK.

So, I am 'Immensely wierd' for using a screen name. So is the rest of this 7000 member community--some of which are my best friends. I'd take that as good company anyday.

Sadly the topic drifted off. I still challenge someone to find where I was Nasty-because if so, i'd like to learn from my nastiness and (OH! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif horrors!) apologize!

As for the email exchange between you and I, I'd be happy to post it. However, I'll PT it to you first if you'd like. If you think its still nasty, then I'll post it public. If not, then i'll just keep it here.

Over and out and SO done with this already! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


And see? Click on these links below--my FULL name! My Phone number! OH! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif AND! get ready for this! My ADDRESS! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

doublete
May. 23, 2003, 12:36 PM
FW- I wasn't even remotely saying that you had stated you were the only one that knew anything about the subject. If you read the post I was replying to- it implies by saying why not listen to someone that knows what they're talking about that FW is the only one that can answer the question. What I was trying to get across is that this whole thread turned into a thread that didn't serve its purpose.
It just tossed a name around and around.
Oh well though. Like I said, I'm sure the truly useful responses were sent by private topics. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.

Moesha
May. 23, 2003, 12:41 PM
This one time at riding camp............................... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

hoochie mama
May. 23, 2003, 12:45 PM
This is like watching a good tennis match.

Please keep it up! It's helping my Friday afternoon go a lot faster!

Erin
May. 23, 2003, 12:46 PM
FW, I think you've gotten a lot more support than criticism on this thread... so maybe it's time to drop it? I don't see any need to post email correspondence. That boils down to a personal issue between you and Evalee, and doesn't really have any place on the public BB. Whether or not you were rude to her, or whatever she's claiming, IS NOT the subject of this thread.

CMBF raised an issue for discussion. Please confine your statements TO THE ISSUE, and refrain from discussing the individuals participating on this thread.

FairWeather
May. 23, 2003, 12:50 PM
The beatings will continue until Morale improves!
&lt;whack!&gt;
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

__________________________
A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men...
FairWeather (http://www.fairweather-farm.com)
CANTER West Virginia (http://www.canterusa.org/westvirginia)

NMS
May. 23, 2003, 12:54 PM
Moesha, ditto. It is extremely important to any of us working with CANTER that there is a distinction between what is a for profit business and what is a non-profit business. There are a lot of people that do not understand that if you take a horse off the track and sell it for a penny more than the original purchase price plus the grain/hay and bedding you have receipts for, that is profit. You cannot, according to the IRS, call your time, however it is used, as a cost. Ask any artist that donates her/his art to an auction for a non profit fundraiser. They can only deduct the materials.

There are many folks who mistakenly, however good their intentions, think that they can call themselves non-profit because they have put x amount of training time into a horse and therefore he is worth x dollars.

CANTER, as well as any other non-profit organization, works very diligently to insure that the non profit status we have worked so hard to obtain and maintain, stays exactly that.

The reason CANTER has a good reputation (as another poster mentioned) is because we are so diligent about protecting this status. It's the only way we can legitimately walk the backside of a track every week and help those horses. We would not be as well recieved in the racing ranks if we were back there to make a profit on their horses.

So when someone posts about a for profit business and mentions CANTER at the same time, our hackles go up and we have to explain, once again, why that is a no no.

Fairweather and the other CANTER Directors have had to personally raise all the funding to apply to the IRS for their non profit status by themselves, and it is not cheap. Please keep this in mind when you gauge the reactions to the original post.

Nancy

www.canterohio.org (http://www.canterohio.org)

NMS
May. 23, 2003, 01:02 PM
Oops, sorry Horsepower! I didn't make it to Winona over the weekend, although I must say I didn't miss jump judging in the HAIL like last year. Will be at South Farm June 1, how about you?

Nancy

www.canterohio.org (http://www.canterohio.org)

doublete
May. 23, 2003, 01:47 PM
NMS- some very good points. I hadn't really thought about the fact that the IRS won't let you charge for time... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif yet another reason why I admire all of the directors so much- so much time put into it and no payback except for satisfaction.
I think I'll stick with my two or three resale projects. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Much easier!

Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB's.

Moesha
May. 23, 2003, 02:37 PM
Thank you NMS and Fairweather and all of the other people who put in the tireless and sometimes thankless (well from people anyway!) hours into doing what you do. Your work serves as the moral fiber of the horse industry that most of us do not worry about. I am not saying we are heartless and only care about our own little corners of the world. But we have our horses, put whatever time and effort into them and concentrate on our disciplines and rarely think about the issues like the thousands and thousands of ex-racers who need a new home...and in many cases urgently or meet a sad fate. I have tried to at least keep up with the slaughter issues and now try to keep up more with WV Canter and the work they do, and even will try to do what I can when I can...like my new monthly column, but I can only have time for what I have time for and as selfish as it might seem..the main interest..which for me is showing at a certain level doesn;t leave the extra horse time to even think about a "full commitment." So for me and the other people out there especially those who have no idea how much the good work of retirement funds and rescue operations and adoption groups and organizations like CANTER and the amazing people like all of you and those involved ...who are part of the reason we can do what we do...

Thank you ,thank you , http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifthank you

Cross_CanterHLTB
May. 23, 2003, 04:01 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FairWeather:
And Cross-Canter, whoever you are...(didnt your 'from' say Ohio yesterday??)

I am only using this thread to address this one line because I don't know how to use private topics. Forgive me please.

Fairweather, no, my 'from' did not say Ohio yesterday. What is it exactly that you are getting at? I don't know where you people are coming from anymore and I am confused. I thought this was a friendly board? Maybe my from should say something like h*ll because that is where I feel like I'm at right now. Also, for what it is worth, Fairweather, I apologize to you for saying retract your claws. I may have misconstrued your comments to CMBF. I never expected the backlash.

I apologize Erin for being off-topic in this thread. I will not be back. This is just too far out there for me.

HaltAtX
May. 23, 2003, 07:27 PM
OK.

Well, I am proud to announce that NO ONE has scared me off. Just been busy!

I thought about just not responding b/c this post has just gotten way off topic and just basically rude, and I don't want to have my name established with such behavior.

Perhaps it is my fault for not clarifying and for using FW name and I apologize for that, but my intent was NOT to start a feud and I apologize.

Now for a general apology.

I realize now that my post was a little flighty. I admit that. BUT I also want to put this out there. I had a MILLION and one things going through my mind and I did the best i could to be the most comprehendible I could be at the current time http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif We have all had our times especially with us breeders are who are going through the baby boomer period so to speak: D

Now, some people just have their days/weeks/months and others are just scatter brained ( like me!) Just because we are busy people and can't dummy roof our post, does that mean we need to be picked apart and told that we make no sense and that it is all our fault for not being clear and that is why we are getting jumped? No. Maybe it's my generation but I always give people a chance and usually a second. What can I say: I am human, I understand my mistakes and that I make them and understand that others do too!

Now back to the topic: I want to do something! I want to help. No FW I did not make it up, but trust me I know the grunt work. I do want to make it up and help. Life needs to work its magic, which is why I said that whatever ideas (that I posted about) that were floating in my head HAD to wait awhile, but I wanted to get opinions and ideas and atleast form something comprehendible to go from when the time was right. No harm in that right?

To better clarify what I think I want to do... I want to do the retrain and/rehab (which also means taking in hurt mares who will not be riding sound, but breeding sound) So I will not be a non/profit org. I DON'T want to start a rescue, whatever rescuing I will do int he future will be reasonable (as to say NOT biting off more than I can chew) and they will either stay with me the rest of their lives or if someone comes around that takes to them and prove a good home then those arrangements will be made but I probably won't ever "claim" a rescue org. So what I am thinking is that I will label it a small business and perhaps just not claim a business at all until I see how it works out (buy a couple/resale...see how it goes) and that the profit will be put in the cycle and go towards buying more OTTB's and giving them good/better homes. I will go from there.

I fully understand that it is VERY hard to achieve NONPROFIT status, I was never putting it down, I merely stated that it is TOO MUCH for me to do as I have my riding/and breeding FULL time plus a full time job. Atleast I am realistic Eh?

So I hope some of you that were not "getting" my post, I hope this clarifies things for you!

Now How I want to go about my idea, is like someone here mention in their post, I would like to team up with a racing stable/trainer/owner or perhaps many and or a combination, and work from there.

I wanted advice on how to go about this also. I know a big way is to buy. I would also like to "inform" other stables/owners/trainers of what I am trying to set up so that they can pass the word or become involved themselves http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The last idea was that I still wondered about "fostering" and setting it up so that for whatever exchange, they could be retrained etc. Opinion on that also.

Now I have more to comment about but it will go under another post as it is OFF TOPIC but related to some posts in this topic.

A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

HaltAtX
May. 23, 2003, 09:49 PM
OK This is an "attitude" post.

Number One; I don't have one.

As Doublete posted being 20 yrs old and in this horse business is NOT easy. Since I have gone into the public world and branched off on my own somewhat, the level of support has dropped IMMENSELY. It's sad really and I know that sometimes even being 30 is hard... which imagine, being 20 and 18 when I originally branched off. I have met a lot of open minded extreme professionals that have taken me under their wing and I thank God every day for them but they are few and far between it took me 2 years to get the FIRST person to look my way.

I as many others my age are doing extremely well for ourselves. There are not many 20 yr old people on this earth that can say they have 13 yrs of experience in a given field, won numerous awards, ran their own boarding facility successfully, own nice quality stock and at this point in time very successful at what they are doing.

I may come off "Flippantly" because I have struggled hard, and I have been criticized, ridiculed and put down immensely, sadly more than I have been supported in some means. I have learned to stand firm and not be tirade by others, put down and most of all give up.. This is NOT easy to do.

As there are a WONDERFUL bunch of people on this board there are also a LOT probably more, harsh critique, quick and misjudging arrogant and sometimes very close minded people, and this is on the board and off the board (In real life)

I am the first to understand this is life, but I am the first to understand when one deal with sooo much, they learn defense mechanisms to keep them surviving.

I am a VERY open minded loving person. I am OVER willing to learn ANYTHING I CAN, and I am the first to admit when I am wrong or that I don't know something, b ut I am also the first one to LEARN that thing I didn't know before.


I am completely dedicated to my horses, they are my air, my life without them I would not be here. I am also a very compassionate caring person and would give my right hand to help ANYONE regardless if they were family or a stranger.

I know I have built a defense, I try not to show through in posting or speaking but I know it happens,a nd sometimes I am being sincere and other people read into it wrong.

One thing that is read and intended to be read into is that when I KNOW I am right, I will not back down because someone else challenges me. I am a very strong willed individual.

Just because I am 20 does NOT mean that I am dumb.

I was taught by some of the best, I had EXCELLENT training and continued to train myself for 4 years when things were hard on my family and we could not afford lessons, I read ever book watched every show did anything I could to teach my self. THAT is dedication.

I KNOW I don't know everything and i KNOW I have soo much to learn and I am SOO eager to learn it, but at the same time there are soo many negative people in the world that I can NOT afford to open myself up get stepped on discouraged and bottom line quit... I wont let that happen.


SO I apologize if I can off "flippant" or my "post rubbed you the wrong way" My best advice if it is a reoccurring problem, EMAIL me... and just be honest. If I didn't intend something a certain way I will fix it next time, but if I DON'T know I am doing something that upsets a majority then I will keep doing until someone says something... and not "sidenoting" in a post. That just really upsets me.

As far as "MILKWARTS"

That was a person attack and very uncalled for. I posted on the dressage forum for HELP, I was not flippant and I was very understanding of the advice I was given on the board and in private. This is NONE of your business to come onto the racing board and attack me so snidely. That frankly hurts. That was a problem that I had never encountered where I couldn't fix it. I have NOT experienced everything in horses and I know this and that is why I came to the board to seek advice. That's what I though this board was FOR!


To find out my gelding DOES have a problem that someone with more training needs to work with him, and it was the tongue problem. This is something I would and do need help with and I am receiving it.


Anyways: My point...Very few people on this board have met me in person and have seen my horse skills and talents. I know I have made my mistakes on expressioning myself through writing on this board, and I learned. But until you meet me in person and work with me side by side please don't judge me, or anyone for that matter.

Life is too short to be negative, and uncaring. The world can be a great place full of great people.

I invite ANYONE to come meet me and my "family" ( horses) anytime... THEN and only then can you technically pass judgment after working with me a couple of times.

Alright~@ I am off!

I apologize if I wasted someone's time with that post, but I felt especially after the "flippant" and Milkwarts remark, that after many months I need to "clear" myself!

Thanks for everyone who now might see a "light" and give me that second chance : D

Happy Memorial Day everyone! Have a great holiday/weekend!

A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

horsepowerco
May. 24, 2003, 03:57 AM
NMS...Weather was chilly (to say the least) but was pleasant. NO HAIL this year. I did announce for Jackie on Sat. I broke my foot earlier in the week and had a pretty good dose of pain going on by about the 7th or 8th time going up and down her tower latter! YEOUCH!

I just got my gelding to where I can keep shoes on him...the after math of Poor horse keeping by his previous owner. NMS this is the gelding which you saw about a year or so ago with the pervious owner. He was in such bad shape. I believe we spoke about he and the previous owner. So now you know what I had to deal with. Now that he has FEET again I hope to have him back under saddle this weekend. But it looks like hes more of a Hunterpace prospect time wise. I just simply can't have him ready for the horse trials.Plus I own a motorsports company and my plate's pretty full with that right now. Not to mention the filly I have here with a Spiral fracture (2nd time) who has been retired from her days racing and is now for sale as a broodmare per her owners request. She requires a good bit of my time as well. (I think I have about 60 miles logged in hand walking)Lets not forget breeding season! UHGGGG CALGON TAKE ME AWAY! Then....a friend has a very nice TB broodmare here to foal...due in July in foal to Hi Scope...I can't wait to see this baby. Now that Hi Scope is dead it will be interesting to see if she keeps this one...I sure hope so.

anyone need a job as a groom? I think I need one! LOL

Anway...back to the topic. CMBF...Go forth and prosper! Like I said if you need help, assistance, have an idea...feel free to shoot off an email. Just keep in ind you don't ahve to commit to the huddled masses of horses out there in need. Just the few you know you can help within your means and give the right time and care to. Every one of them count...from the hundreds of horses groups like CANTER, TRF, RE-RUN and the like help ...to the few that people like you, me , Doublete etc...it all counts! Good Luck.
To love a Thoroughbred is to truely live and enjoy life.

[This message was edited by horsepowerco on May. 24, 2003 at 06:11 AM.]

HaltAtX
May. 25, 2003, 08:13 PM
Thanks Horsepower! your support and advice means a great deal!

Thanks!

A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

The Fjord Jockey
Jun. 11, 2003, 07:34 PM
Good luck CMBFarm.... it seems there will never be enough people to help all the horses in need. It's always nice to see someone trying to make a difference, however they can.
We ran into a lot of semi-hostility (when re-habing greyhounds) from some established groups also. I think it's a pet/animal lover thing....some seem to want it to be their thing or no thing at all (?). We only saved a few dogs here and there but it was gratifying. We ended up getting most of our dogs from local Humane Societies...previously adopted dogs who's new homes didn't want to deal with the scrutiny the re-hab people dished out when a dog needed returning. Not all are like that but I ran into a few up-ity groups...I really didn't see anything in your post that should have riled anyone. Oh well, hope you hook up w/ people who can help. I'll give a yell if I see any horses that might fit what you're looking for. Seems when we run across a nice horse in need we've not always been able to quickly find a home. THERE'S SO MANY!!
PS. I do have a friend who took a OTT and sold him as a hunter for quite a price. I see nothing wrong with that...helped her start a better facility & buy more horses. She only takes ones that will re-sell, other people take sweet lawn ornaments. A friend once bought a special favorite back just so he could put her down as she was going to killers. You do what suits you I guess and sleep well at night for it!
Best Wishes!!

*J*
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.

juliet
Jun. 13, 2003, 09:21 AM
In response to person who is posting about MD canter, there is a Rerun in MD see below

www.rerun.org/rerun.index/html (http://www.rerun.org/rerun.index/html)

The website has a newsletter about the new Rerun in MD which was donated by Wear family, and the plans that they have for it.

bkokoruda
Jun. 13, 2003, 10:22 AM
That last URL does not work. Here is the correct one:

http://www.rerun.org/index.html