View Full Version : What Do you See With this Mare? UPDATE!! Can You Help?

Jan. 15, 2010, 05:33 PM
I'd Like your critiques. Thanks a bunch. UPDATE: The number listed is no good. How do I go about finding out the owner and how to get ahold of them?


Jan. 15, 2010, 06:05 PM
The first thing I noticed were her very long pasterns attached to long thin legs. She may have soundness issues in the future. She has a very sweet face!!

Jan. 15, 2010, 06:16 PM
that's what I saw, too, but didn't know if there could/would be trouble down the road. Anybody else?

Jan. 15, 2010, 06:50 PM
I know we're now used to looking at WBs, but she looks officially fine-boned all over for her height.

At 5, I'd like to see her withers at least level with her butt. It could be the angle of the picture, but she looks a little butt-high to me.

Finally, she's goose-rumped which will limit her power behind.

I don't mean to be entirely negative. But for $1,500 and what else you can find in the way of OTTBs right now, I think you could do better.

If this is not merely for educational purposes and you want to find a reason to buy her, you might look for a couple of things. Meet her in person as see if her mind is really as good as CANTER says. That goes a long way, IMO. If she is a spectacular mover, count that for her, too. Finally, really quiz the trainer about how sound she has been. Yes, she's not fast, but at 5 if a horse has held up to a decent racing and training schedule you may have one of those "sound for no good reason and no matter what" animals that sometimes come along and humbles all of us couch-sitting conformation gurus.

Jan. 15, 2010, 07:26 PM
I think she is gorgeous of course she needs a lot of weight to fill her out. The long pasterns have never been a problem for me. I usually do dressage or small fences with this type of horse. She deserves a chance to prove her abilities just by looking at a photo you cannot judge her appropriately. I say go for it, she needs a home and you want a horse the perfect match :)

Jan. 15, 2010, 07:48 PM
I have adopted three OTTB's already and do have my hands full. I am not going to be doing anything other than low level things (I am in my 50's). There was/is something about this mare, but am concerned about the legs and long pasterns.

Anyone else care to chime in?

I need another horse like I need a hole in my pocket.

Jan. 15, 2010, 07:55 PM
I don't know, her front legs just seem all out of sorts. Looks as though her left knee is almost rotated in while her toe is pointing forward. And on the other front I can't even tell what I think is going on. Over at the knee? It's almost as if her forearm and cannon below belong on two different animals, with a knee borrowed from a third. Very sweet face though, almost as though she's pleading with you to overlook what she knows is going on down there.

Jan. 15, 2010, 08:15 PM
Wow, first thing I thought was "did they photo shop this?!" She's walking on sticks in front!

Lord Helpus
Jan. 15, 2010, 08:17 PM
I like her a lot. She is well balanced and stands over enough ground that she should have a decent stride. And her stifle is high so she will be able to reach underneath herself and get power out of each stride and for pushing off and doing her lead changes. Her slightly goose rump will help her with that too.

Combine that with a jumper bunp and, in 200 pounds, you will have a lovely looking sport horse.

I agree on the worry about her legs -- but I don't think that one picture give enough information to nix her. She deserves a look (and take your checkbook :yes: becuase I don't think her legs are going to be a deal breaker.)

What is her breeding? TB's with a strong sport horse pedigree have a much better chance of being successful in that life.

Florida Fan
Jan. 15, 2010, 08:39 PM
that's what I saw, too, but didn't know if there could/would be trouble down the road. Anybody else?

My sentiments exactly. It has always been by mindset to never start with negatives(I learned the hard way). It takes time and $$$ tomake any of them. Any sort of jumping may be an issue. I would question rideability with the downhill conformation. There are so many out there who have less negatives...however, she looks so sweet. I can see why she appeals to you!

Jan. 15, 2010, 10:55 PM
I agree with Lord Help us
This mare is just not standing properly for the picture. This happens alot at the track when trying to get a photo of a horse in racing condition. She has a lovely neck, a nice eye and if she is quiet she will be a lovely lower level horse. She may also make a nice upper horse( no way to know that about any of them). If she raced sound till the age of 5, those pasterns are most likely not going to be an issue, as a side note, they may give you a really nice smooth ride. For us older folks that means a lot!
The pedigree information mentioned before is important, but also find out how many races she has done. This will give you an idea of her ability to stay sound.
Good luck!

Jan. 15, 2010, 11:59 PM
If she has raced sound until 5 with that light bone and those pasterns and you are only doing low-level work with her, I wouldn't hesitate. She does have a sweet look too!!

She is not really thin but just race-fit, a few pounds and some work on that topline and she should look superb. Head is nice, neck ties in to the head and to the shoulder nicely. Little bit of a long back, long pasterns, and light bone, but she is proportionate and balanced. I don't think she is downhill, but I think she is level...which is ok (particularly for lower-level stuff). As for that right front, that is just her stance - I have an OTTB who will stand funny like that as well. She simply has not put all her weight on that leg - she is not really standing all that well at all, really (which is to be expected from a racehorse of course, haha).

Is she five as of this year (Jan 1), or is she 5 now, going on 6? She should fill out still either way, but especially if she is only turned 5 now - she should fill out quite a bit yet.

I wouldn't worry about the relatively minor flaws if she is just to be a lower-level horse and has raced sound. Especially if you at least start off with some dressage with her to strengthen her topline and teach her to use herself efficiently - that also will lighten the stress on her body. Also, have her vet-checked and ask the vet what he thinks of her potential in relation to her conformation!

Jan. 16, 2010, 12:43 AM
I think that with the way she is standing, there is no way to properly critique her. She's sound (supposedly), and has a kind eye. I'd go look at her in person. Her pasterns don't look horrible to me. She should be comfy to ride, as another poster mentioned.

Jan. 16, 2010, 01:08 AM
The high stifle stood out to me; but for me it's a negative. I prefer horses with more level to elbow.... they can (squat w/) the hind better.

Horses with this high stifle conformation are usually good gallopers....

I too thought the pic was photo shoped; the pasterns are long.

Carol Ames
Jan. 16, 2010, 01:52 AM
With the way she is standing:(,it is hard to tell to tell; what I noticed first are her big ankles:eek:' I would certainly have them x rayed:yes: AND FLEXED:yes:

Jan. 16, 2010, 09:59 AM
I think this is her:


It looks like she's had quite a few starts. If she's still sound I imagine that must say something for her.

Jan. 16, 2010, 10:27 AM
I like her a lot! I like the way she is put together and I think with some groceries, you'll have a stunning horse!

Jan. 16, 2010, 11:57 AM
She has long, upright pasterns which could potentially give her a jarring, uncomfortable gait, but, she also has a nice sloping shoulder which could mean she has a nice long stride too. She doesn't appear to have an ewe neck which is surprising considering shes so thin, but she is very very skinny, and I cant tell if she has that 'hunter's bump' or if it's just that there's no meat to her yet and will go away once she's bulked up. I cant tell but is her right front leg crooked, or is it just the way she's standing? I feel sorry for her!

Her eye is nice and she has a smart looking head, she doesn't look like an unintelligent horse. She's super leggy, I dont know, maybe she could be a daisy cutter! She has VERY fine leg bones. She looks like she could become an elegant horse. I'd like to see a video of her move, but i doubt they'd have that. If she's close to you, I'd go see her! She could a diamond in the rough!

Jan. 16, 2010, 01:46 PM
The picture is bad. She is standing down hill and no where close to being stood up.

While her pasterns are long, they are not upright, they fall right where they should and are the same angle as her rear pasterns.

Being fine is not an issue, bone size does not determine anything other than bone size. A fine boned horse is no more likely to be injured than a large boned horse.

The mare ran almost 60 times which is pretty good indicator of soundness for a 6yo.

She has some very interesting bloodlines. She is Fappiano 3rd gen and has the Bay Ronald, Galopin bloodlines, the ones that produced, Cottage Son, Dark Ronald, Rondeau, Bayrado etc. Does not mean she will be a star, but it would certainly get me interested enough to go look at her.

Go see her, hang out with, see her move, see if you can get them to trot her over a bale of hay or something, spend $5 and check out her race history on equineline.com or pedigreequery.com to see if she was ever laid off for an extended period, see how she ran her races etc.

Sing Mia Song
Jan. 16, 2010, 03:33 PM
Here's her race record: http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorseInfo.cfm?refno=7291581&registry=T

She's made $33K in 57 starts, which sounds like a losing proposition to me, but I haven't looked through all her charts. She's made at least one start in almost every single month since May of 2006. If she could handle running that often on those legs, there's probably nothing you can do to break her, although I'd radiograph her ankles to get a baseline.

If you're not in the area, I'll tell you what: I have Monday off, and CT is a mere 60 minutes drive for me. If you make the arrangements, I'll go look at her, take more pictures, and let you know what I think. I love an excuse to hang out at the track anyway.

Jan. 16, 2010, 04:33 PM
First of all it looks like she deserves a look. She is not standing very well in the photo. I LIKE how she is put together, it even looks like she has some heel on her foot, which can be hard to find. A couple hundred pounds on her and she'd look great~why so many people love to tear a horse apart based on a bad photo is a shame. Here is a nice mare that needs a home, come on people!

Jan. 17, 2010, 12:38 PM
If you're not in the area, I'll tell you what: I have Monday off, and CT is a mere 60 minutes drive for me. If you make the arrangements, I'll go look at her, take more pictures, and let you know what I think. I love an excuse to hang out at the track anyway.

What a generous offer! COTHers rock!

OP--I hope you take SMS up on her offer and keep us posted. FWIW, I think she's lovely.

Jan. 17, 2010, 01:01 PM
Me no likey, confo-wise. I haven't read all the posts, so this may be already mentioned. Over at the knee is what I see. It could be her stance, but it looks like there's a possibility for sickle hocks too. Somehow she's just not standing over much ground for a horse her size - I don't think that's purely her positioning. And I did catch that someone else mentioned excessively long pasturns, at least in the front...yep. Bad legs in the back and front is just...bad. Her bod looks pretty cute, except for the too prominent hunter's bump, which doesn't appear to be weight related, 'cause she's not that ribby. She does look kind, but...pass, pass, and pass. :no: So sorry!

Read some other posts, and wanted to add: Far be it from me to suggest any horse doesn't deserve a home because of some confo faults. It may not be the strictest truth, but I'm kinda of the persuasion that every horse has got a job it can do. If you love her and can give her a good home, go for it! Don't listen to my jackass opinion!!! LOL!

Jan. 17, 2010, 05:57 PM
I love her eye in the head shot, and while I personally like a bit more bone, she looks like she could be a really elegant girl. A leggy, pretty mare who held up to that many starts, with chrome and a kind eye is nothing to sneeze at.

I think in these circumstances, a picture is even less valuable than usual. Racehorses aren't always the best at standing still for pictures, angles can be weird, etc.

My horse was bought off the track by someone else, spent a few months in a field, and then was ridden lightly to see what he might be able to do. The pictures I saw of him before I went to look showed that he had a textbook jump, had a lovely, long neck, liked to cross his back ankles when standing, and had a gorgeous, hack-winning trot. We thought: well, that jump, his neck and the trot means we can discount the ankle thing.

His jump is even more amazing than those pictures showed, he has a neck that is this side of stumpy, he *does* like to stand with his back ankles crossed [dork], and his trot is absolutely horrendous. :lol:

A picture may be worth a thousand words, but with horses, the first second is one set of 1000 words, and the next second is an entirely new set!

Carol Ames
Jan. 17, 2010, 09:43 PM
Definitely go ;look:cool:; She may look much better :yes:in person; what would you be looking for, resale or personal use?

Carol Ames
Jan. 17, 2010, 09:55 PM
;)Lyphard:) Fappiono and Northern Dancer:yes:!

Carol Ames
Jan. 17, 2010, 10:07 PM
If , she is a foal ;)of 1991, how is she, 5 or 6?:confused:

Jan. 17, 2010, 11:12 PM
She is just stood up all catywampus, so you cannot get a good idea of anything from those pictures. In my experience, pictures often lie about bone substance and, as an aside, I had a gelding from this trainer and he was the most lovely tempered, affectionate horse I have ever owned. So sorry, I had to sell him.

Jan. 17, 2010, 11:28 PM
I am not fond of her long pasterns as others have mentioned (or her very thin legs). If you are looking at using this horse in a jumping career then you may want to reconsider. Long pasterns can often cause strain on the suspensories and other tendons and those a real pain to rehab! Of course there is a good chance she would be completely fine and never have a problem. Personally I wouldn't really risk it since there are many other nice TB out there needing a home as well.

Carol Ames
Jan. 18, 2010, 01:40 AM
You might just "connect;)" with her, buy; but, get those ankles checked out :sadsmile:, and a few years down the road have a very nice horse:cool:, of course, then, you won't :no:want to sell her:winkgrin:

but, theere will be others:cool: :yes::winkgrin:

Carol Ames
Jan. 18, 2010, 01:52 AM
tearing her apart? Her ankles show signs :yes:of wear :yes:and tear, ie./, fill;
these need to be considered It may be "nothiing:cool: to be concerned about :no:but, it could portend :lol::eek:trouble, depending upon the planned use; you need to know:yes:

Jan. 18, 2010, 02:26 AM
My concern is that the leg is longer below the knee than it is up top. The pasterns also look slightly long, but straight. That combination makes for a stabby, uncomfortable stride, very boingy. Her hock angle looks okay; she probably won't be an especially scopey or athletic jumper, as it will limit her power from behind, but if you're not looking for that, it probably won't matter to you. She also looks seriously underweight, which makes it hard to evaluate the hind end effectively, as other people have said.

Jan. 18, 2010, 11:27 AM
Thank you all for your opinions. I appreciate that more than you know. While I was going to take our fellow cother up on her offer to go see the mare, I found out that the number listed for the horse is no good.

Yes, there was just something about this mare that kept me going back to see her picture, but something really funky was going on with those legs, possibly.

Thanks, again.

Sing Mia Song
Jan. 18, 2010, 01:02 PM
Bummer! Google Charles Town and horseman's office--you should be able to leave a message for the trainer.

Jan. 18, 2010, 10:43 PM
"I found out that the number listed for the horse is no good. "

Why dont you email Canter Mid Atlantic and see if they have another number? there are several email addresses on the contact us page.

Jan. 18, 2010, 10:51 PM
I did that last night. And I have called the gal for Mid Atlantic and left two messages. No responses on either end.

Jan. 18, 2010, 11:04 PM
i think she's worth a look. its not the best picture, she's not standing on level ground. and really, when do you see horses with perfect conformation? (yea, i know, its good to avoid a potentially huge problem though -- but im not seeing it here)

plus, if that frail mare has held up to 60 starts, and she really is sound, then i don't think you could break her.

she'll be gorgeous with some TLC and weight.