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hellerkm
Jan. 14, 2010, 06:45 AM
Our younger pony has a horrible habit of pulling the reins right out of DD's hands and really tipping her forward. Now Dd knows how to just let the reins slide and manages to get this done most of the time but the pony is relentless. I have grazing reins on her but she is STILL pulling ( yes I will tighten them some more) but the issue is we cannot show this pony with them on and the kid can't SHOW the pony at all without them!
Pony has had her teeth done, she is not sore she is just a little brat ( cute as a button, sweet, sane just PULLS) how so I fix this problem so the kid can take the pony to a horse show??
POny is only 11.3 hands so I can't get on her and we really don't have anyone who can ( not that I think it would make a difference anyway she just pulls) so what is the training trick to stop this rotten behavior???

Pandora1087
Jan. 14, 2010, 07:16 AM
I have ridden ponies who do that for people before. I am a small adult so I can ride the small ponies. It is a behavioral thing usually, and can be fixed with a few schooling rides. You either need to find a good pony jock kid or adult. I'm not a pro, but I have worked with ponies that have done this before. If it is a mare, some regumate might help too.

M. Owen
Jan. 14, 2010, 07:44 AM
If you've ruled out pain/ discomfort, I'd say it sounds like a typical, clever, evil pony trick. Having a small but more experienced rider school the pony may help, but ponies are smart little buggers and will frequently take advantage of people when they can (heck, horses do it too,ponies just seem to be more creative). I am guessing your daughter slips the reins to avoid being pulled over the head or out of the saddle, but by slipping the reins, she is rewarding the pony for the bad behavior.

The only way I can think of for your little rider to stop this behavior is develop a strong enough base/ core not to be pulled forward and not to slip the reins. Could the pony and child work on the lunge line for a while with a focus on the child developing strength and balance, while you focus on every time the pony roots her head you send her forward/ make her work? Another thought might be working the pony in side reins on the lunge line (without rider) so that when she roots, she is pulling against herself.

Ponies are just too smart, and if you don't develop a strategy for your daughter to deal with the behavior, I think the pony will continue to take advantage of her even if she won't do it for a more experienced rider.

Addison
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:01 AM
I agree with the need to develop a strong base for the safety of the rider but I do not think that will help her to "outpull" a 500 pound pony. In general, it helps more to give the pony nothing to pull against. The pony needs to be on the bit and accept contact and pulling indicates that she is not doing that.

You are dealing with a nasty habit and a good pony jock could help enormously with some good schooling rides.

Is your daughter familiar with the use of half halts? If not, I would want her to learn how to use them properly.

Good luck to you all.

BaroquePony
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:11 AM
At the trot the gait works in such a way that the head does NOT move up and down or side to side like it does at the walk or canter. So any action created by side reins or riders hands is minimal in having to follow the motion of the horse's head as it trots forward.

Use this gait for schooling.

The rider can actually hold the reins properly, but slide them back and down a tad AND close each hand over the knee roll on the side. You want to actually grip the knee rolls of the saddle with your hands. By doing this the rider is acting as a set of side reins would. I don't know if I explained that very well.

When the pony roots, do not give an inch ... grip those knee rolls with your (daughter's) hands and squeeze or kick the pony forward. Your daughter can also give a sharp, "NO".

Your daughter can do this in two-point or work on it with either the posting or sitting trot.

if she needs to do it at the walk she should give the pony a bit more rein to accomodate the head action of the pony. You do not want to develop a bad habit of the pony shortening the walk.

This works for the rider that has not yet developed a strong Independent Seat and a strong hand/hip connection (or a strong base/core as mentioned above). That is the advanced, correct way to work through this problem.

hellerkm
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:14 AM
I agree with the need to develop a strong base for the safety of the rider but I do not think that will help her to "outpull" a 500 pound pony. In general, it helps more to give the pony nothing to pull against. The pony needs to be on the bit and accept contact and pulling indicates that she is not doing that.

You are dealing with a nasty habit and a good pony jock could help enormously with some good schooling rides.

Is your daughter familiar with the use of half halts? If not, I would want her to learn how to use them properly.

Good luck to you all.

Kid has a GREAT base of support, but really she is only 42lbs the chances of her out pulling the pony are slim to none.
Pony is a bit green so not totally on the bit yet, has been off of work for over 3 weeks due to weather and is just being a bugger. I am going to really shorten up her daisy reins and see if that helps. We just don't have anyone around until late next week who can put a good training ride on her. Thanks for the suggestions, I hate this habit in ponies I find it to be one of the MOST frustrating things they do!!!!

WendellsGirl
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:14 AM
We have a large pony that will occasionally do this to small riders. If yours if anything like ours, schooling riders won't help because pony has a knack for knowing when a smaller, more timid kid gets on her and reverts right back to pulling. I taught my daughter to 'make a bridge' with her thumbs when she feels pony start to stretch down, and she started carrying a little jump bat so, along with her legs, she can drive pony forward and get her moving and pony thinking about something else. It got Daughter more focused on what pony was doing and within a few rides, Pony gave up on mean trick to little kid. :) BTW, this was mostly happening when DD was 5-6ish, so she was a tiny little thing.

alteringwego
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:20 AM
daisy reins help a lot in situations like this

hellerkm
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:26 AM
daisy reins help a lot in situations like this
WE are using them we are adding more holes today LOL!!!

shawneeAcres
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:36 AM
You may want to work this pony some on the lunge line with side reins prior to your daugher riding her that may help, particularly is she is fresh from not being ridden. Also a lot of ponies do this when the little ones are, honestly, in their mouth, and tend to stop once the childs hands are more stable. I would put a neck strap on pony and allow the child to use that for soem "leverage" when pony puls, also to use to help "remind" her to keep hands STILL. Also teaching your daughter how to do a one rein stop may help her to be able to deal with this behavoir better, as pulling on one rein will be easier for her tham both and pony can;t quite use it's neck so strongly with one rein being used. Teaching your daughter how to "bridge" the reins is another tactic.

Come Shine
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:51 AM
Yuck. What a rude habit. You certainly can't out muscle a bratty pony (and I say that with all affection intended). When the pony roots, can she give him a smack with the stick and kick him up into the canter and make him work? Good luck.

EqTrainer
Jan. 14, 2010, 09:03 AM
LMEqT's pony will do this on occassion.

Something to consider of course is does the pony need to stretch down? Be sure that your daughter is making a decision to allow her to do so and it being very clear that this is a break/reward. Picking the reins back up cleanly and decisively, with a boot if pony tries to root during that process, will go a long way.

Otherwise, put a bucking strap on the front of her saddle and have her grab it when Po begins to do it. You may have to be watching very closely as you may see it start before she feels it. Ultimately you want her to feel it coming, grab the strap and boot her forward. If the pony takes discipline from a crop well, this is one of those rare times I would say to give her a smack on the shoulder also.

Good luck!

JumpWithPanache
Jan. 14, 2010, 10:18 AM
I'd go with EqT on this one. I had a wonderful little student who was extremely petite for her age (9 yo) who would blow away in a stiff wing and had an otherwise quite nice little shetland pony. Student was rather timid and pony figured out that rooting was the best way to get out of working. I tried to get this kid to kick her on or smack behind the leg with her crop, but she was too timid to get mena. So I had a pony jock put in a couple rides on the pony and "beg" for the rooting. Fortunately, the kid was strong enough to bridge the reins, block the root, and give a nice resounding whack to the hindquarters. The worst the pony did was trot off, no buck or craziness. The little owner watched and realized that she could do it too, so she got tough. She still wasn't strong enough to block the root, but she could seriously get after the pony who eventually gave up the trick.

Addison
Jan. 14, 2010, 10:25 AM
Eq T and Come Shine have given some good advice. The fix may seem a bit crude but sometimes that is what is needed, especially when it is in the 20s and 80 degree weather is still a few months away:(!

Stono Ferry
Jan. 14, 2010, 10:49 AM
I am sure I will get flamed for this but I have on occasion put the pony who pulls in a pelham with only the curb rein on and had small kids ride like that. As long as the kid has fairly decent hands it is only strong when the pony pulls down, giving the kid a little leverage, of course they also have to send the pony forward at the same time.A whack on the shoulder is helpful as well as long as it does not create a bigger problem.

goeslikestink
Jan. 14, 2010, 11:03 AM
get a small kimblewick bit 4 1/2inches

as thats a tad stronger than a snaffle but not as strong as a pelham
kids are only half pints compared to an adult they havent the knowledge or skill to correct a pony , nor strenght

i often put kimblewicks on the ponies for the kids to ride in as ponies are smart little things

Janet
Jan. 14, 2010, 11:06 AM
You are stuck in a catch 22. The little rider needs to let the reins slip when the pony roots, so she doesn't fall off. But every time she does that, she is rewarding the pont for rooting.

What I have done (but it was a LOONG time ago, and with a bigger pony and a more secure rider, but I thinlk it may still work here) is to have an "emergency rein" (tied to a suitable length) resting on the pony's neck. When the pony starts to root, the rider grabs the "emergency rein".

In my case, the "emergency rein" was a gag, but the curb rein of a pelham would also work.

If you have a "bucking strap", then you can tell the rider to drop the regular reins, grab the emergency rein with one hand, the bucking strap with the other, lean back and stick her feet on the dashboard.

HunterGirl24
Jan. 14, 2010, 11:09 AM
I think the side reins idea is a great one with an experienced rider. Some things my trainers have taught me through the years is never physically battle with a horse when you are riding they will always win. They are stronger, and its setting yourself up for you or the horse to get hurt. I think you should put side riens on the pony and ride with a good amount of contact when the pony pulls she will pull against herself and not you. Also when she pulls you should encourage her to go foward and not slow down. The more foward a horse is going the more they have to concentrate on moving and not on bad behaviors like pulling, head shaking ect. Thier is a thourabred at my barn that was just as bad at pulling as your pony seems to be and we did this and within a month we saw alot of progress! and slowly they started to loosen the sideriens to now he rides with non. He still pulls ONCE AND A WHILE however its not bad and if you ignore it and keep encouraging him to do what you are asking from him he stops.

This is just my thoughts. I hope it helps. Best of luck with your pony : )

vxf111
Jan. 14, 2010, 11:09 AM
Please don't take this the wrong way.

The kid is TINY. TINY! She is not just young, she physically is a tiny little thing. She doesn't have a strong core. She doesn't have long legs she can wrap around any pony. She doesn't have strength. She may be cute as a button and love to ride but she's a young kid and she's tiny.

The pony is greenish. Adorable, but greenish.

You might not be able to throw the kid on this pony and go show and ribbon every weekend. The kid is tiny and the pony is green. This may not be a show-ready combination. If the goal was to go show immediately, maybe a better pony would have been an older, seasoned, been-there-done-that-earned-my-wings pony. Or to wait until the kid is older/stronger/more equipped to handle the pony.

You are a riding instruction for a living, no? And you want to know what gadget will solve this problem? You probably already know this-- the only solution for rooting is for the rider to get the horse moving FORWARD. That's it. Simple as that. Now, the kid is TINY and probably not strong enough to do this now. So it's either going to require getting an older kid to school the pony and install the forward button a bit better, plus lots of time and patience on behalf of the smaller child leaning to get the pony forward herself. Or perhaps, if the goal is to show now, selecting a different pony. The kid is really small. Cute on the pony, but small. She is not really physically able to be schooling through issues like this, I don't think. Tying the pony's head up is at best a short term solution and not a fix if showing is the goal.

I also have to say, and maybe I am just overly sensitive, but I find it impolite when someone who has been free leased a LOVELY pony is constantly all over bulletin boards complaning about the pony and claiming it's got issues. And not just posting objectively about the issues but calling the pony names like "brat." Not a kind way to speak about a pony someone was nice enough to lend you for free :( Nor a very nice way to talk about a pony who is by all accounts giving your daughter a very safe (albeit not easy/perfect) riding experience. It doesn't sound like there's really anything unsual about the pony-- it's a bit of a green pony/tiny rider mismatch if your goal is to get into the show ring ASAP.

Montanas_Girl
Jan. 14, 2010, 12:25 PM
I'm dealing with a similar but slightly different problem with my sister's large pony (whom I'm trying to get prepped to sell). I think this is an issue that will crop up from time to time with any horse or pony that is used in a lesson program and/or ridden primarily by small children.

My sister's pony flips her nose up and out instead of down, but the purpose is the same - yank the reins out of the kid's hands so that she can have her head. On her, a properly adjusted standing martingale does what the anti-grazing reins do on your pony - she can't make any extreme motions, but the behavior isn't prevented entirely. I have three suggestions for you.

(1) As EqTrainer said, put a bucking strap on the front of the saddle and have your daughter grab that when the pony roots. That way, she won't be pulled out of the saddle, but the pony won't be rewarded for her behavior.

(2) Longing in properly adjusted side reins will help the pony learn to accept contact and automatically correct her when she roots.

(3) You really, really, really NEED to find a stronger, more experienced rider to school the pony. There is only so much you can do without having someone on board who is capable of correcting this kind of behavior. Do you not know anyone who is small enough to school the pony? I'm 5'1" and 125 pounds, so I'm often enlisted to school naughty ponies, some even a bit smaller than yours.

Go Fish
Jan. 14, 2010, 12:29 PM
Spurs and a big stick...:D

I've seen my trainer solve this issue by having the kid drive the pony forward. The kid has to be tough...the MINUTE the pony tries to grab the reins, the kid needs to kick or swat HARD and drive the pony forward. I imagine it works because the pony figures out that pulling = hard work or a spanking. Make sure the kid is prepared to deal with a pony that might shoot forward.

I think ponies learn to pull to get some relief from the constant nagging and pulling on the reins by an novice pony jock.

Come Shine
Jan. 14, 2010, 12:32 PM
And not just posting objectively about the issues but calling the pony names like "brat."

I think the "brat" part was mine. It was intended as a term of endearment, though. :)

vxf111
Jan. 14, 2010, 12:46 PM
. . . she is just a little brat . . .

Come Shine, you also use the term but the original poster calls the pony a brat in the first post. There have been other posts describing the pony in less-than-flattering ways as well ("pulls like a freight train" "pony didn't look pleasurable because it was rooting like crazy" etc.). It looks like a lovely pony and like the OP's daughter is quite a cute little rider (very little-- most her size/age are still doing leadline for the very lack-of-strength issues that underly the current problem) so it rubs me the wrong way that the pony is repeatedly referred to negatively out in public. Especially when it was a pony that was free leased and, at least from what I can see, it's not as though there's something seriously dangerous/wrong with the pony-- the rider is so young/small that she would probably have difficult w/t/c and showing ANY pony off lead simply due to the physical limitations accompanying being that size.

AllOverFarm
Jan. 14, 2010, 01:06 PM
Don't you have an older daughter that rides? She might be a little tall, but I'm sure she could get the pony moving forward. How's the indoor ring working out? Is the other pony getting used to being stalled? I enjoy following your posts-as I have a little one that rides too!

LuvMyTB
Jan. 14, 2010, 01:18 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way.

The kid is TINY. TINY! She is not just young, she physically is a tiny little thing. She doesn't have a strong core. She doesn't have long legs she can wrap around any pony. She doesn't have strength. She may be cute as a button and love to ride but she's a young kid and she's tiny.

The pony is greenish. Adorable, but greenish.

You might not be able to throw the kid on this pony and go show and ribbon every weekend. The kid is tiny and the pony is green. This may not be a show-ready combination. If the goal was to go show immediately, maybe a better pony would have been an older, seasoned, been-there-done-that-earned-my-wings pony. Or to wait until the kid is older/stronger/more equipped to handle the pony.

You are a riding instruction for a living, no? And you want to know what gadget will solve this problem? You probably already know this-- the only solution for rooting is for the rider to get the horse moving FORWARD. That's it. Simple as that. Now, the kid is TINY and probably not strong enough to do this now. So it's either going to require getting an older kid to school the pony and install the forward button a bit better, plus lots of time and patience on behalf of the smaller child leaning to get the pony forward herself. Or perhaps, if the goal is to show now, selecting a different pony. The kid is really small. Cute on the pony, but small. She is not really physically able to be schooling through issues like this, I don't think. Tying the pony's head up is at best a short term solution and not a fix if showing is the goal.

I also have to say, and maybe I am just overly sensitive, but I find it impolite when someone who has been free leased a LOVELY pony is constantly all over bulletin boards complaning about the pony and claiming it's got issues. And not just posting objectively about the issues but calling the pony names like "brat." Not a kind way to speak about a pony someone was nice enough to lend you for free :( Nor a very nice way to talk about a pony who is by all accounts giving your daughter a very safe (albeit not easy/perfect) riding experience. It doesn't sound like there's really anything unsual about the pony-- it's a bit of a green pony/tiny rider mismatch if your goal is to get into the show ring ASAP.

This. :yes:

hellerkm
Jan. 14, 2010, 01:22 PM
Come Shine, you also use the term but the original poster calls the pony a brat in the first post. There have been other posts describing the pony in less-than-flattering ways as well ("pulls like a freight train" "pony didn't look pleasurable because it was rooting like crazy" etc.). It looks like a lovely pony and like the OP's daughter is quite a cute little rider (very little-- most her size/age are still doing leadline for the very lack-of-strength issues that underly the current problem) so it rubs me the wrong way that the pony is repeatedly referred to negatively out in public. Especially when it was a pony that was free leased and, at least from what I can see, it's not as though there's something seriously dangerous/wrong with the pony-- the rider is so young/small that she would probably have difficult w/t/c and showing ANY pony off lead simply due to the physical limitations accompanying being that size.

I never said anything about the pony being unpleasurable or rooting like a freight train!!!
We love BUG and yes she is cute adorable, and VERY well loved here!! WE are not ungrateful in the LEAST, I am simply looking for solutions other than what I have thought of to fix this problem. Kid is tiny but has a solid core and can ride the pony well at a trot and canter. I agree with you that as long as the pony is going more forward we don't have this problem, BUT at some point they do need to be able to WALK around the ring without the pony trying to unseat her. IF she walks on the buckle they are fine ( pony drops her head to the sand and just walks) this is NOT the way a pony should go in the show ring OR at home! ( and we do have a nice older MADE pony that she shows as well) or even in between transitions. Each time she starts to gather her reins the pony yanks her head down and pulls the kid forward. There must be a fix for this behavior, I have read everyone's suggestions and I plan to try a few of them, our pony jock will be back from vacation next week and we will see what she can accomplish. Just a side note I would not let the kid RIDE the pony in side reins I would only lunge her in them. Pony does this even if the kid is NOT riding her! So it has nothing to do with heavy hands. Pony pulls just as hard when you lunge her, at the walk, once she is working and thinking forward it stops.

ETA: my first post does use the word Brat with teh qualifiers cute sane and adorable RIGHT after, Brat is meant to indicate the behavior not the personality of the pony sorry if you took that wrong.

Mack'sKidd
Jan. 14, 2010, 01:29 PM
I believe VXF is referring to this statement...

"Her pony was very sane and sensible BUT she pulls her head down like a freight train, hence the 4ths and 5th in a Pleasure class, not so pleasurable to ride LOL!! "

http://s8.zetaboards.com/The_Outside_Course/topic/8166410/1/#new

If I were kind enough to free lease a nice pony to someone, I don't think I'd enjoy reading a post like that.

hellerkm
Jan. 14, 2010, 01:32 PM
Don't you have an older daughter that rides? She might be a little tall, but I'm sure she could get the pony moving forward. How's the indoor ring working out? Is the other pony getting used to being stalled? I enjoy following your posts-as I have a little one that rides too!

We are loving our indoor!! Spoiled might be a good word although I try to make sure to remember just how lucky we are every day!!
Pony who hates stalls is LOVING her stall, it only has a wall half way up, then bars the rest of the way and a dutch door on the back so she can see outside, she never even batted an eyelash when we put her in!!
Both ponies seem to have adjusted well! WE are all much happier and we really like the people! Thanks for asking!

vxf111
Jan. 14, 2010, 01:35 PM
I don't care to argue but perhaps you're not self aware of some of what you post about the pony. I didn't make up that you called her a freight train or repeatedly post about her being difficult...

http://s8.zetaboards.com/The_Outside_Course/topic/8166410/1/#new
"pulls her head down like a freight train"
"not so pleasurable to ride"

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237950
"our green pony was a real pip today, bucking everytime my son drove by in the gator"

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236387
"pony did a HUGE SHAKE and dropped her head Dd tumbled off the side"
"pony was not so pleasurable at this point"
"constant head dropping and pulling"

I don't know if that middle post is a different pony but the instant post and the other ones are about the free lease pony. You're an instructor. Think how you'd feel if kids were going around posting online that the lesson ponies at your barn were misbehaving/difficult. I think you'd find that to be impolite/unkind. I also think the parents of your students/potential students might not be impressed to find their instructor posting online and saying negative things about a leased pony. Might make them wonder what the instructor would post online about them!

You may be totally unaware of this, which is why I am trying to point it out in a polite way.... but sometimes our "online" life bleeds into real life and it's important to strive for professionalism/politeness in both if you want to be viewed that way in real life.

hellerkm
Jan. 14, 2010, 01:37 PM
[QUOTE=Mack'sKidd;4618343]I believe VXF is referring to this statement...

"Her pony was very sane and sensible BUT she pulls her head down like a freight train, hence the 4ths and 5th in a Pleasure class, not so pleasurable to ride LOL!! "

http://s8.zetaboards.com/The_Outside_Course/topic/8166410/1/#new

If I were kind enough to free lease a nice pony to someone, I don't think I'd enjoy reading a post like that.[/QUOT

Well as a judge would you consider a pony who is pulling and unseating a kid to be pleasurable??? I would not, she is a PLEASURE to have we love her just not always a pleasure to ride when she is pulling Dd so far forward at every opportunity. This is an issue with MANY ponies not just ours, it does not make her a BAD pony it just makes her NORMAL!! And it certainly does not mean we don't love her very very much!!! We would simply like to solve the issue. No harm or foul intended!!!!

Mack'sKidd
Jan. 14, 2010, 01:45 PM
What the judge would think is irrelevant. You're on a public board talking about someone else's pony. If you want to say your own pony pulls like a freight train or isn't pleasurable etc. etc., more power to you. But you're talking about someone else's pony that they loaned you. There are more diplomatic ways to phrase things. Or, even better, how about going back to the pony's owner and asking for advice?

Just a thought.

Lion1024
Jan. 14, 2010, 01:46 PM
As an owner, would you want to see everything you've written about that pony on the internet for all the world to see?

You might very well adore her and love her and say most of that tongue in cheek, but should owner ever want to sell her, you aren't doing much to enhance that pony's reputation.

There certainly are ways to ask for advice without bashing the pony.

RugBug
Jan. 14, 2010, 01:58 PM
I would not, she is a PLEASURE to have we love her just not always a pleasure to ride when she is pulling Dd so far forward at every opportunity. This is an issue with MANY ponies not just ours, it does not make her a BAD pony it just makes her NORMAL!! And it certainly does not mean we don't love her very very much!!! We would simply like to solve the issue. No harm or foul intended!!!!

I gotta agree with vxf111 here. I was really hoping this wasn't about the leased pony but rather about the one you own. I guess I was wrong.

The pulling problem isn't the issue...it's how you post about it. A LOT of ponies (and horses) pull/root. Pony isn't being "a brat" it's just being an pony.

If the rider is too weak to deal with it, the usually fix is to teach them to be strong...but in this case, your daughter is probably too little to effectively do what she needs to do. A few quick, sharp upward pulls on one rein right as the pony starts rooting will most likely fix the issue....but your dauther is too small and too young to do so ...even though she's a cute little rider with the makings of being quite good.

If the pony does this at the walk when you pick up the reins...it's fairly easy to teach daughter when it's going to happen and what to do. Have her stick her feet out in front of her, lean back and do what needs to be done.

So teach her to do it and maybe lay off the 'evil pony' shtick.

QM2
Jan. 14, 2010, 02:06 PM
I can't believe you guys are jumping all over the OP like this. Has the world gotten SO sensitive and PC that someone can't even legitimately complain about a naughty pony? Come on, is it really a surprise that a small pony is being naughty?

I'm sure it's not a surprise the owner. I own a few small ponies and while I'm not happy when they are bad I am certainly not surprised. Back off of the OP she is only asking for help. Getting all over her case is NOT helping.

My suggestion is to long line the pony using 2 long lead ropes while your daughter is riding. She does all the steering but when pony roots, you take over. Run the lead ropes through the loop of the antigrazing reins at the saddle so you have more leverage.

Also, try a ported kimberwicke for her. I like it for the little ones because they aren't really strong enough to hurt pony but it give some more control.

Good luck!

RugBug
Jan. 14, 2010, 02:17 PM
I'm sure it's not a surprise the owner. I own a few small ponies and while I'm not happy when they are bad I am certainly not surprised. Back off of the OP she is only asking for help. Getting all over her case is NOT helping.


If I leased out my horse and then had to watch the leasee badmouth him all over the internet, I would be quite upset. It's one thing for me to badmouth him...it's another if someone else does...especially if I'm generously free-leasing him out. Maybe the owner doesn't care, maybe she does...but it's poor form to speak badly about someone else's horse.

HunterGirl24
Jan. 14, 2010, 03:37 PM
I personally think everyone is acting very childish. NO ONE not even the original poster ever posted anything wanting to bad mouth a pony. They were simply asking for help out of frustration. She is not saying the pony is horrible in the least. She obviously cares enough about the pony to try and get help, and if the pony does behave in this way then getting help will stem down to helping the owner because the ponies issue will be fixed. Therefore making it a much nicer pony in the long run. People see ponies all the time with this problem and on the flip side people horses as well with this problem. No matter what the breed or hiegh of the animal it is a common equine vice. In my earlier post i even mentioned a thourabred who does this. So I think the focus of this thread should be on the problem at hand and NOT the way the poster is speaking. Because it is clear she cares if she wants the problem fixed and for her to badmouth the pony does not only hurt the owner it hurts her because it says what her daughter is riding is not nice. So again lets calm down and just help her with the problem. Also UNLESS you actually are the OWNER of the horse i do not feel it is any of your buisness how she talks about it. : )

vxf111
Jan. 14, 2010, 04:03 PM
Welcome new forum member with: (1) join date of TODAY; (2) uber generic screen name; (3) highly similar posting style to an existing member; and (4) a history of posting almost exclusively on that poster's threads.

Big_Tag
Jan. 14, 2010, 05:12 PM
Welcome new forum member with: (1) join date of TODAY; (2) uber generic screen name; (3) highly similar posting style to an existing member; and (4) a history of posting almost exclusively on that poster's threads.

hahahahhaha.

goldponies
Jan. 14, 2010, 05:38 PM
I have a very small lesson pony that will do this with certain riders. Will not with older kids. Started with grazing reins, etc. On a whim tried this bit and Worked!
www.justforponies.com/happymouth3ringjointedpessoagag-45.aspx For showing regular snaffle and happy kids happy pony :) Have extra bit, pm if you would like to try it.

enjoytheride
Jan. 14, 2010, 05:46 PM
I'd say it's a pony and it read the pony manual regardless of how nice the actual owners are. The OP seems to be enthusiastic with everything involving her daughter anyway.

Put a set of daisy reins on the pony, find a pony jock, or send the pony back. It's a pony, they're evil by birth, and your kid is tiny.

FrenchFrytheEqHorse
Jan. 14, 2010, 06:04 PM
I liked the "emergency rein" suggestion. I would use either a pelham or a 3-ring elevator with a normal snaffle rein in addition to an "emergency rein" attached to either the second or third ring of the elevator (depending on many factors), or simply a pelham rein attached normally. I would have the kid lay the emergency rein on the neck (perhaps tie a knot in it if it's too long), and leave it be unless the pony begins to pull. The "emergency rein" should give the kid enough leverage to correct the issue. That being said, this will also require a dexterous, quick thinking kid which might not describe a 5 or 6 year old.

I'd also like to point out that this seems like a green rider/green pony issue. Any gadget you put on the pony now to "quick fix" a problem is going to nip you in the bud later on when the kid gets bigger and more competitive. The best thing to do in situations like this if you're looking for the best outcome over the long term is to get a kid that knows what they're doing to school the pony REGULARLY. As in, several times per week. A pony is never going to get made up by a 6 year old kid and her mom- it takes years of educated rides to produce a dependable, enjoyable small pony, which is why the good ones often aren't for sale.

I think you need to sit down and make a plan for the kid AND the pony independently before you start thinking about horse shows. If you don't you risk getting a six year old kid extremely discouraged by a lack of fun, and you risk returning a leased pony in worse shape than when it came.

Addison
Jan. 14, 2010, 06:43 PM
I think a PM to the OP may have been a more polite way to point out a problem that someone may have with her posts.

HellerKM.... If you are a trainer/instructer I commend you for asking for help. You sound as though you are enjoying your kids and their ponies and I wish you much luck with them.

Do remember though -it's the journey that matters most.

80s rider
Jan. 14, 2010, 06:50 PM
Did I miss something? The OP never mentioned that the pony was a free lease in the post. I just assumed it was her pony, I'll have to go back and read her first post again...

llsc
Jan. 14, 2010, 09:09 PM
Yuck. What a rude habit. You certainly can't out muscle a bratty pony (and I say that with all affection intended). When the pony roots, can she give him a smack with the stick and kick him up into the canter and make him work? Good luck.

This one works great. If she has to work every time she pulls down, she will figure it out quick and stop rooting at the walk. I do this with Mick because he flips his nose up at the walk so the daisy rein doesn't stop him and a quick hand correction didn't work either. Making him side pass or trot every time he flipped his nose stopped him. He does forget the lesson and needs constant reschooling, but it works.

M. O'Connor
Jan. 15, 2010, 11:44 AM
Ponies ARE smart enough to get around any fix you might make on this issue. A broken collarbone/wrist will always be a huge risk without the grass reins.

Pulling and yanking the reins away from a rider is one of the most unnerving and dangerous habits a pony can develop, and short of providing your little rider with enough bit to fight back (only a few youngsters are able to contend with double reins) or waiting for her to grow, there is little you can do about it.

This sounds like a 'grass rein' pony, unsuitable for use beyond leadline. Time to move on, so your daughter can progress.

Faircourt
Jan. 15, 2010, 09:07 PM
If this is indeed a leased pony, have you tried contacting the owner for suggestions? As someone who leases out my own ponies, I definitely always appreciate hearing from the leasee's with any problems they may be encountering - usually it's something that I can help out with, without the pony getting a little bad publicity on a public forum. Also, this may be a habit that is forming that could be hurting the pony's training - again, definitely something to make the owner aware of...

redears
Jan. 16, 2010, 05:21 AM
I have a 14.3 hh horse, so not a pony, but very "pony-brained" and smart with pony-like behavior :lol: My trainer's 12 year old daughter rides him and he learned last summer to root after jumps (she was starting over tiny crossrails) to get her forward and actually pulled her off. My trainer got on schooled him and she finished on a good note. I rode him the next day and tried to get him to root, of course he wouldn't.

Our solution for when the daughter was up was to switch him from a full cheek to a baucher bit, he couldn't get get a good grip on it to root, and for a while my trainer tied a little piece of string to the top of the noseband and then the tails of the string to the bit rings, so when he would root and she'd hang onto the reins, he'd get a pull on his cavesson as well as the bit. She hasn't jumped him since, so we're not sure if he'll try it again with her, she has been riding him at walk/trot only now and it seems to have been resolved.

Rosie
Jan. 16, 2010, 02:30 PM
I'm going to agree with those who are counseling you to stop bringing your "woes" with someone else's pony, onto a public BB. Or at least re-think how you explain the problem(s).

If your attitude was more in line of "this is a problem that is caused by your daughter not being a good enough rider to deal with a nice pony that someone graciously lent you" then I'd feel differently. But you aren't. You are basically complaining about the pony's actions.

If I were the owner and reading what you've written, I'd pick the pony up immediately.

In addition to seeming less than thankful for what you've been given - it's clear that your training - and your daughter's riding are not making a positive impact on the pony.

findeight
Jan. 16, 2010, 04:00 PM
Sometimes it's OK to just say "Uncle" or throw in the towel when trying to match any horse or rider to each other and the limitations of your individual training situation.

IMO there is no "fix" in this particular situation. DD is too tiny to really get the job done. Pony is a...Pony. A.K.A too smart for it's own good. It knows full well DD is not strong enough and will figure out any "fix" in about 5 minutes.

Pony is also Green and learning a really bad habit that will be harder to get rid of every time he successfully does it.

The only thing that will fix it is a stronger rider. Since OP has no stronger rider available of the proper size on any kind of regular basis and has little money in it, maybe it's time to say goodbye and find one more suitable. Not like she dumped a bunch of money in it and it has to work.

I'm sure the owner would rather have it back then continue with the tiny rider that is too small to correct misbehavior.

It's just not a good match for either of them in your situation and given the fact you want to go show. Nothing wrong with that.

Sugarbrook
Jan. 16, 2010, 04:03 PM
Have I missed something here? I re-read the original post and I see no mention of this being a leased pony. Which post was it that said she was leased?

findeight
Jan. 16, 2010, 04:13 PM
OP has had quite a few posts in the last few months regarding searching for, finding and now working with DD and this Pony. Which is fine by me. But, unless you have been following them, you would not get that from the OP on this thread.

hellerkm
Jan. 16, 2010, 04:35 PM
Sometimes it's OK to just say "Uncle" or throw in the towel when trying to match any horse or rider to each other and the limitations of your individual training situation.

IMO there is no "fix" in this particular situation. DD is too tiny to really get the job done. Pony is a...Pony. A.K.A too smart for it's own good. It knows full well DD is not strong enough and will figure out any "fix" in about 5 minutes.

Pony is also Green and learning a really bad habit that will be harder to get rid of every time he successfully does it.

The only thing that will fix it is a stronger rider. Since OP has no stronger rider available of the proper size on any kind of regular basis and has little money in it, maybe it's time to say goodbye and find one more suitable. Not like she dumped a bunch of money in it and it has to work.

I'm sure the owner would rather have it back then continue with the tiny rider that is too small to correct misbehavior.

It's just not a good match for either of them in your situation and given the fact you want to go show. Nothing wrong with that.

We have several ponies we are working with at this point, today the pony who was pulling was MUCH better, we shortened the grazing reins a bit more and Dd carried a stick which she used to aid her leg each time pony started to pull, as long as pony is working at a steady pace she is fine if Dd lets her slack off then she tends to try to pull and stop. She is green ( not overly but more green than the made pony we have) and while the pulling is a bit tough to conquer when your only 42lbs, it was more an issue of her being confident enough to push her forward and not worry that pony was going to "scoot" out from under her ( one of the other ponies she is riding will do this if you ask her too quickly) once Dd figured out that this pony would not do that she was fine with getting after her and keeping her moving. Today was a HUGE success and they had a great ride. Dd loves this pony because she is sooooo sane and sweet, with the pulling issue under control they are enjoying their ride a lot more! She can't wait to get back on again tomorrow! Ponies will be Ponies and they will use whatever tricks they can find to NOT work LOL it seems like we might have overcome THIS trick. Since each pony seems to think up their own tricks I am sure Dd will encounter several more in her riding career, at least now she is bit more confident about fixing this one.

ETA: Findeight you might be right it might only be a temp fix but we do have a bigger pony rider who will be back from vacation this week, so I think she will be able to fix the issue in a more permanent way if we need her to. I hate to throw this pony back a teach DD that ponies are just a dime a dozen and you don't have to work at this, I think that is the wrong message to send IF she is confident enough to keep after the pony and keep her moving. Otherwise I do agree that I would NOT want to ruin a perfectly awesome pony with a tiny rider who can't get the job done. For now we are going to see how it all plays out. If she can keep after her and not allow her to pull fine, if not we will make other arrangements.